Succession: The Art of Anti-Climax

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[@LaneMaxfield]

Another example of how the difference between good and bad subversion lies in your understanding of why the conventions are there in the first place. Satisfying subversions are always, always, always going to be the ones that serve the story better than the conventional approach.

[@ieatsand9259]

Well put!

[@xXphrenzyXx]

Wut is the conventional approach?

[@JohnDoe-vc5qb]

@@xXphrenzyXxit’s relative

[@xXphrenzyXx]

@@JohnDoe-vc5qb no shit?

[@LaneMaxfield]

@@xXphrenzyXx I think this is a fair question! I think conventions are another way of saying tropes - story elements that are recognizable, but allow for enough variety to avoid being cliches. You don't need to have any given trope or convention in your story (like, in this example, if you just wanted to avoid the conventions of major character death, but didn't have a better way to execute it, just don't kill off any major characters). A subversion of a convention is when you put in enough of a trope that the audience starts suspecting all the other aspects should be there, but you give them something else instead.

[@MBeccaro]

There IS some foreshadowing because he got sick in the pilot, it's the whole premise of the show, it's in the name even, a huge Chekov's wardrobe. That said, it's brilliant that 4 seasons later people got so used to him that everyone (characters and audience) forgot about the ticking clock.

[@rini6]

It was so perfect. When it happened I said that this is how death actually happens. The human body can give out suddenly. When you’re 84 and have health issues but still insist on extensive travel and working long hours these things aren’t just possible they are likely. This episode rang so true. RIP Logan.

[@conforzo]

This is probably how D&D wanted to "sUbVert eXpeCtaTIons" with GoT... But of course failed where Armstrong brilliantly succeeded Wrote this before watching the video, so glad he brought it up 👍

[@ryzigg7187]

I think episodes 1 & 2 are also relevant when talking about the setup of this twist Roman Kendall and Shiv backslide in various ways in the opening of the season and make a bunch of dumb decisions all primarily motivated by Logan Killing him gave characters like Kendall a chance to grow in a way he never would’ve been able to if he was still alive, and while the show has always been about defeating Logan from early into the season the show has been teasing the idea that perhaps that would never happen, perhaps the true challenge isn’t beating Logan but what comes after - how do you fill a shadow of a man that could only be defeated by time ? Oh kind of reminds me of Season 4 of GoT where Joffrey dies and everyone went - great the little shits dead and OH SHIT this does not look good for Tyrion 😂because of all the tension between the two characters throughout the earlier seasons

[@FGCfoof]

This episode fucking devastated me, can't even lie. So happy to see this video in my sub feed

[@LuisSierra42]

FR, i was so sad when it ended, i felt like someone close to me had died and i didn't even root for Logan

[@Notnow22]

This deliberate decision to do an ‘anti-climax’ resolution to this plot point - which is the whole premise upon which this series is founded - was the epitome of brilliance coming from a show like this. I was in absolute awe for the majority of the episode and how magnificently they handled it! Take note, Rian Johnson: This is subversion done right.

[@ryzigg7187]

@Joseph Avenetti just about to comment this Knives Out has some great subversions

[@Notnow22]

@Joseph Avenetti the first one is very enjoyable, although not as smart as it thinks it is. The second one is not as good, however, although I actually enjoyed it as well.

[@malayjoshi225]

So you're saying this to the director of Ozymandias which is universally considered and has aged for almost 10 years as the greatest episode of television in history....In terms of what you're saying subversion.....yes there is no subversion in the 47 min long episode but it's possibly the finest conclusion to a storytelling arc of a television show which was building-up for years since it's inception and I do think Knives out is his best work till date...with 'Subversions' can't say the same about Glass Onion

[@Notnow22]

@@malayjoshi225 That episode is BRILLIANT - as is the entirety of Breaking Bad - and I’m not doubting Rian Jonhson’s capacity to produce incredible stuff. The point is that he sometimes thinks he’s too smart for his own good, which led up to the travesty that was TLJ. He was so caught up in trying to subvert expectations that he forgot to write a compelling story, which butchered the franchise in the process.

[@malayjoshi225]

@@Notnow22 I agree TLJ was a shit-show brother!! But I think sometimes it happens with a writer/director same happened with James Cameron they love their world too much But I do think Rian Johnson has the ability to craft a world and subvert expectations genuinely.

[@rebeccagibbs4128]

i felt like in stead of 'seeing' logans death we instead got to watch the death of the kid's identities as "logan roy's children" it felt like all the build up around everything this show is about is sputtering out with an old man lying prone on an airplane while a stranger performs cpr and his colleagues plot life beyond him. Such a great show and In some ways I'm glad I'm late to the party- only had to wait a year for the final series:) Ive always loved your channel and really enjoying your editing and presentation recently. Keep up the lovely work and thanks, as always, for sharing these interesting deep dives:)

[@gauravmehta4466]

Mate I’ve been following your channel (and drafting a novel) since you started and I’ve subsequently dropped out of law school to write a novel set in the twilight hours of the British Raj-your videos on Dramatology (or whatever it’s called) have been invaluable in my editing and learning process. So really thank you for these and stay in touch. G.

[@mrarcade2504]

I have not seen succession at all but I'm here for this video 🙌🏾

[@DamnedLibertarian]

It's great

[@seen921]

Thank you for being succinct and on the nose. This is why succession will be one of the greatest shows of all time. Just because they don’t want to pander to expectations. They do what is right for the show.

[@Scarleto]

Anti-climactic has a whole other meaning so I was expecting a very different video but this was so informative and entertaining that I'm grateful to have been wrong. Thank you for your work!

[@goobholder]

This death got me so much and I’m glad I waited a few months to finally get through it cause if I had watched it as it aired I would’ve had to watch the kids say goodbye to their dad on the phone in the same way that I had to say goodbye to both of my grandparents just days earlier.

[@lolcats987654321]

With the new season, starting to come out, I figured I’d go back and maybe watch the first episode to see if it would be something I was interested in, ended up GLUED to the screen for episode after episode

[@LuisSierra42]

It's crazy when i realized that Succession is just a sequence of scenes in which people get together and start talking because all these conversations are so full of dramatic tension that it all feels like a battle

[@brandonwhite4992]

@@LuisSierra42 I realized something similar to this rewatching too. The dialogue is so sharp and biting that it turns into the action sequences that keep me hooked. I was wondering why people often say the first few episodes are a bit slow and dry, I think it might just be that they don't click with/don't personally enjoy the dialogue for whatever reason, because man the dialogue was so compelling for me in the first couple episodes gaining speed and hooking me in, and then it blasts off like a rocket and doesn't really come down from episode 6 onwards.

[@aminekakla10]

i dont remember which author/artist said this but the best death scenes are the most unexpected, cuz guess what death comes when u dont expect it, most deaths in real life come with a shock through a phone call

[@EddyTheMartian]

Succession is the Sopranos of our generation

[@bncbcbbc31]

nah

[@cockroachv]

Succession is way better. Sopranos is just a fatass saying gabagool every 10 seconds

[@EddyTheMartian]

@@bncbcbbc31 yah

[@jillianwilson7567]

Nope.

[@morganwu767]

Soprano’s had some fun moments, but it’s not a consistently great show

[@steuarthoce3451]

I don’t even know who directed this, but that’s art bro.

[@1sdani]

SPOILERS FOR MGSV MGSV is still to this day one of the best executions I've seen of an anticlimax. Players spend Act 1, an analogue to the threshold crossing of the typical heroes journey, trying to save the victims of Skull Face, only for every ally they built up in the previous game to be slaughtered by him in the player's absense, Act 2 then is the adventure segment of the heroes journey, seeing players getting back up from that loss to replace what they lost and get revenge, yet act 3, the act that should have been their lowest point in the typical structure of the monomyth, ends up being where they get their revenge... except the player doesn't kill Skull Face. There is no boss fight, they don't even get to pull the trigger on the final shot, they don't even get a cutscene showing the final shot, he's killed offscreen right as the characters, and the player, look away from him. Yet in death, Skull Face wins. His reveal that there is a traitor amongst the main character's organization that has a weapon capable of destroying everything they created. act 4, where in most stories the characters would climb from the belly of the beast with newfound knowledge, instead find themselves deeper and deeper into their white whale, constantly fighting to find the truth and constantly fighting their own growing infighting, the more cutscenes play, the more briefing tapes you listen to, things only make less and less sense, and you the player are driven further into wilder and wilder theories. Act 5 then, an act that begins with the tapes claiming to be the "Truth", is technically a "return to home" act like that of most heroes' journeys, but the main character's home is war itself, you and the main character both only delve further into your quest for revenge and the truth, the main character doing side mission after side mission capturing bases that keep getting recaptured, replaying training simulations with his allies of his past missions, developing more and more powerful technology for use when reliving his past adventures, raiding and getting revenge on rival militaries that seem oddly similar to the descriptions of "shell militaries" that was explained in one of the first briefing tapes, and all the while players spent years data mining the game, dissecting interviews, theorizing, hacking the game's servers, organizing grassroots nuclear disarmament movements, blaming the publisher for pulling a Moby Dick and withholding the epilogue chapter, yet nothing brought them the "truth" and nothing brought them the catharsis of revenge against a game that took from them the ending they so rightly deserve. The game serves almost too perfectly as an encapsulation of the emptiness of revenge and its final act as a deconstruction of remakes and live service games, itself having been advertised as the series first step into "forever games" and coming off right the heels of the 3DS remake of one of the series' most popular games, MGS3.

[@Bliccyriccy03]

Wasn’t the end not made bc Konami sucked and pulled the plug? I still think you’re right, but is it this way because it’s the way kojima wanted it or is because he wasn’t allowed to finish?

[@SaberRexZealot]

That game was so close to being perfect.

[@jasondylan12345]

@@Bliccyriccy03I do think the ending we got was the always going to be the intended ending, its just missing a lot of stuff that was going to build up to that reveal

[@1sdani]

@@Bliccyriccy03 Personally, I have a feeling that, while Kingdom of the Flies is canon, it was only ever going to be released on the DVD. For one, it's a reference to Moby Dick, whose publisher initially refused to release the final chapter, and for the other, it's odd that the DVD didn't include the line Ocelot would say when you approach the mission area. Every mission in the game starts you off in a helicopter slightly outside of the mission area and briefs you as you fly in, letting you approach the mission area, and then giving you some extra info from Ocelot as approach the mission area. Missions that don't follow that rule like Shining Lights or The Truth meanwhile have ample dialogue that plays as you walk through the level, but Kingdom of the Flies doesn't seem like it had that kind of dialogue recorded either. Considering that VAs almost always record all their lines in as few sessions as possible, it strikes me that either they were going to break convention for the final mission, or Kingdom of the Flies wasn't a mission we the player were going to go on. I personally have a theory about how Punished "Venom" Snake isn't Venom "Naked" Snake, that the FOB mode is canon, that Quiet can't possibly be infected with the English strain, and that Kingdom of the Flies already happened before the game even began, but even without crackpot theories, Kingdom of the Flies' exclusion fits rather well with the overall themes of the game. We never get revenge on Eli for stealing Sahelanthropus, and we never learn the truth of how Punished Snake stopped Eli.

[@SkylarTheWriter]

Whoa! Was anyone else taken aback by actually SEEING Mr.Savage? Is this a new thing? And where can I get a nice basic black tee like that? OK, now that the shock is over, who else didn't know "dramaturgically" was a real word? *slowly raises hand in shame*

[@Ortex313]

You could make an entire series on “anticlimax” by breaking down The Sopranos. I would add the term “anti-cinematic” to that show.

[@malayjoshi225]

A Show that changed and twisted every cinematic norm....timeless masterpiece

[@aaroncollins5188]

You put into words perfectly what made this episode so incredible. I feel like what they accomplished was to make us as viewers experience a character death the way we do in real life rather than the way we usually do in tv and movies. I was right there with the kids in disbelief as it was unfolding.

[@DjScoop9]

Love the Kame-House wallpaper! :D

[@samlasley798]

The surprise death at the end of GOT season 8 was the show itself. No one expected it it to fall off as badly as that lol

[@orionh5535]

This episode remimded me of The Body in Buffy Vampire slayer. In most cases deaths are sad, awkward and scary. The response to a persons death also shows their relationship to the people left. Roman was the most affected, Connor the least. Tom was personally affected, but also still hyper aware on how Logan related to his career prospects. Greg was a bumbling mess.

[@watershipdowneyjr]

Especially when he talks about negative space because that's what Dawn is learning in art class during The Body.

[@berserk4souls]

Greg was such a mess he even let it slip to that journalist that Logan might be dead thus rushing everyone to do a statement.

[@AlejandroMartinez-jv5uf]

Attack on Titan has another example of this: the reveal of the identity of the antagonists in seasons 2.

[@TheZombieButler]

Another fantastic take on a piece of fiction. There's a reason I look forward to your creations. Thank you.

[@jackdccole]

SB’s comment on Succession’s use of anticlimax reminds me a lot of Nerdstalgia’s video on why Bill from Kill Bill is so terrifying. That video inspired me to speculate on how to best construct anticlimactic villain defeats and the untapped narrative potential they present. Often times, the climax of the story comes by way of a fight scene between the Hero and Villain, but I am curious of how to create effective narrative climaxes that are not built on violence. So SB, if you have any advice regarding the concept, I’d love to hear what you have to say regarding the concept.

[@punkinholler]

I haven't watched Succession, but your description of this episode reminds me of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode, The Body.

[@Hrafnskald]

Great exploration, thank you for sharing these insights. Looking forward to applying these to my own stories :)

[@cinderheart2720]

For me, Death was a discord message that one of my friends I had talked to just a day before was suddenly no longer with us.

[@originaozz]

It was also subversive because the story that could have been also looks so inviting. Lofan planning to fight thriugh Matson. Roman betraying everyone to his dad side & is a big middle finger for Shiv and Kendall. The children trying to make Pierce's works. However, all that set up was for naught once the man himself died. His impact on the children even dead just triomphe those tropes.

[@karmicbreath]

I just want to throw it out there. Buffy the Vampire slayer pioneered this type of character death with Buffy's mom

[@overlydramaticpanda]

This type of character death has been a thing *far* longer than that. The TV show 'MASH' is from the 1970s and it has probably one of the most infamous examples of a character death being done in this way (actually, 'MASH' has several examples of this, but there's one in particular that everyone who knows the show always remembers). And even that's not even anywhere near the first example of it happening.

[@dubioussightz1538]

Do a video of the ending!!!

[@JoeticJustice]

woooooo new savage

[@NathanJosephCole]

But the line also applies to Batman who has to create a vast spy network to beat the Joker without breaking his other rule about not killing.

[@NerdyGuyRanting]

The major death at the end of Game of Thrones season 8 was the show itself.

[@WetRatGaming]

Awesome analysis of Logan's death. Instant subscribe!

[@steuarthoce3451]

I don’t remember the last time I’ve learned so little.

[@louisee7339]

The climax of Romeo and Juliet is when Romeo kills Tybalt.

[@newguy5672]

Great video

[@hahawhat5745]

Hey dude great video, I didn’t get spoiled or anything but it looks like a few commenters here assumed this video was gonna be about earlier seasons and they got spoiled about the death. Maybe next time it’d be great if you do a spoiler alert at the beginning. I appreciate you doing spoiler alerts for game of thrones tho.

[@Sui_Generis0]

This was like the death of characters in the wire, especially one in particular

[@terranncegilmore]

Maybe the best episode of TV I've ever watched

[@lucaspsm125]

fantastic video!!!

[@Sui_Generis0]

I was hoping you did a video seeing this was one of the best TV show episodes of recent history. Although, I was suprised that you spoiled it without having any spoiler warning in the video

[@deecee6262]

this is great but also, I worry a little bit that the thumbnail is just a little spoilery no? its only been a week since the episode aired, I only watch it myself last night. Maybe one of the shots of Roman stressed out instead??

[@ChezzaOuttaNowhere]

Wonderful video

[@dalewillis3341]

Spoilers for season 4! I was near the end of s3 when I saw this video. Where's the warning? Great video though - I watched it after I caught up

[@absolutelycitron1580]

Omg freeza killing Kremlin fucked my 6 year old brain up!!!!!

[@hdhdu7634]

Quite the good looking man right here😎

[@spoopyd.8910]

Bruh. I thought it was some denial kink or smth. Hell of a title

[@williamstollery8326]

Have you got any advice or tips for people who (like myself) want to improve their understanding of dramaturgy? Like, any books or whatnot to help learning and defining dramaturgy from a practical standpoint? 🤷‍♂️

[@garrybuseeofficial3114]

A little spoiler warning would have been nice, I don't know if the show is airing differently in other countries or something but I'm following it on hbo and I'm currently 1 episode behind and I think I just got spoiled on one of the biggest plot developments in the entire series 😐😐

[@qwerty-mo6fy]

OMG !!!!!!! Y did u not give a spoiler warning ⚠️😡😣

[@Littlestraincloud]

was there some kind of video guide that encouraged edited video essayists to make more face videos? I've been noticing this trend lately

[@apparentlylost1670]

Connor Roy was interested in politics at a very young age.

[@lafregaste]

Is it me or you put info on bubbles for those of us who watch your videos with a notepad and pen beside us? 😅

[@pdgf]

Dramaturgy you say only evolved in the 1700s? Didnt the Greeks already have plays?

[@xsomeNOOBx]

Umm, did I just get spoiled an entire series from an episode that came out a week ago? Dude.

[@LuisSierra42]

It hasn't ended yet

[@cbob213]

No but he just fucking spoiled some shit less than 2 weeks old. I hadn’t seen this yet and figured the video was about the many other succession videos I’ve watched since season 1 l, except you know. Not spoil what is obviously the biggest spoiler of the entire show.

[@AvantaGarden]

@@cbob213 You'll be alright.

[@Sui_Generis0]

@@cbob213 yeah you can't get that back

[@whedonobsessed]

sorry I got distracted by this guy's voice i dunno what he said

[@Ponderosa-pine]

WHERE IS THE SPOILER ALERT I THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT THE EARLIER SEASONS

[@steuarthoce3451]

My k holes are in k holes, ironic.

[@SaberRexZealot]

Oh no he’s hot

[@cbob213]

Your seriously out here trying not to spoil GoT while simultaneously spoiling Succession’s latest episode RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE. Seriously man. You ruined a scene that would have been absolutely gut wrenching, that’s less than a week old. I gotta unsub just for that complete disregard for your audience, and lack of care in handling one of the best out of left field deaths since the red wedding (reading it for the first time and then getting to watch my family and friends reactions to the TV show). You robbed me, and from the comments, quite a few peoples own experience with the culmination of 4 Seasons of spectacular story telling. Something that you spout left and right that all writers should aspire to. Well the whole point of that, is the experience of the people that are reading, or watching, or even sometimes playing through modern storytelling.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

Bro, this one was on you.

[@LoSGaines]

I disagree. That was one of the worst death scenes I have ever seen and I thank you for pointing it out so clearly. I like this video because in the first part you carefully explained why it was terribly written. I almost feel like it's sarcasm but I can't tell if you seriously think that episode was done well or not. There's more evidence in this video for the latter. I personally didn't find it as real and shocking as everyone seemed to think. When a loved one is dying and you get the phone call you try to do something, anything. You rush to their side. You try to offer support. You stop everything and go. I find it very hard to believe that neither of these uber rich spoiled brats insisted on stopping the boat and being helicoptered to wherever their dying dad was or being carried to. That was very uncharacteristic of them. The only one that was written perfectly was Connor. In the first episode during Logan's collapse, Connor immediately distracted himself with his high paid hooker. This time he took it all the way as to seem like a coping mechanism for him. Most everyone else in those scenes did nothing. No one insisted on an official diagnosis. None of the kids insisted on speaking with an official on the plane. They all took the word of the guy that swallowed his own load? No one on the plane rushed to the phones, not even for business reasons, to control the narrative or secure a selfish position. No one acted human. I felt nothing, not because I'm a heartless bastard, but because I spent all my good crying time yelling at the screen because of all the inconsistency. This show jumped the shark starting with season 3. This new season is so bad that I actually stopped watching. That death scene, or lack of one, was the last straw.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

What an awful take, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[@soccerandtrack10]

I hate dramatugry. If you know what nazis are you know why i hate it,nazis are dramaturgy, dramaturgy should only be for tv.

[@cbob213]

Dramaturgy is when you spoil shows because your too stupid to use a spoiler warning

[@ieatsand9259]

Dramaturgy is the theory and practice of dramatic composition, nothing more. Where the hell are you getting Nazism from?

[@misssoso5859]

I kinda disagree. Sudden, "anticlimactic" deaths are not completely unique to Succession. There are many stories that implemented them. And Logan's death was foreshadowed in the first two episodes, and it fit the themes of the narrative outside of mere commitment to realism. What makes Logan's death unique is when it happened (at the beginning of the final season, not the middle or the end), and that's because the writers were talented enough to have enough material for the rest of the season.