Supplement Industry Secrets: What They Aren't Telling You About NAD+ & NMN | 39 - George Sutphin

[@user-bh5er5me2p]

Many would object to the use of allometric scaling in the paper discussed in this video. The paper’s claim that 300mg/kg is the same as 1.5g NMN in humans is extremely questionable. Allometric scaling applies to *xenobiotic* chemicals not normally present in the human body. It does not usually apply to non-xenobiotics like vitamins- in this case vitamin B3. Xenobiotics (like most drugs) are eliminated by physiological processes that scale with body size, such as renal clearance or hepatic metabolism. Vitamins, on the other hand, are essential nutrients that are absorbed, transported, and utilized through different mechanisms that do not necessarily scale allometrically with body size. They tend to scale somewhere in between allometrically and directly by weight, which means that allometric scaling of vitamins from mice to humans results in a value that is usually too low. In reality, 300mg/kg in mice is likely much more than 1.5g NMN in humans.

[@jamesgilmore8192]

Fair comment here, and certainly relying on scaling alone is not enough evidence. Studying the effects of various B3 supplementation on all uremic metabolites would be interesting.

[@jackkrauser1763]

I hope u will create a second channel where u put clips in, that are no longer than ten minutes, because for someone like me whos really interested in this content, i find that the long video format is not for me, i dont have that much time, thank u in advance

[@optispan]

We are launching shorter clips very soon, so stay tuned! - Tara

[@jackkrauser1763]

@@optispan Thanks a lot!

[@Halbared]

@@optispanhad it launched?

[@RobertNaik]

Great show. Selling NMN seems to be a big seller for supplement companies. I get a lot of advertising from them.

[@fivestar5897]

Dosage Even if we accept the proposition that the dosage used here would only be equivalent to 1.5g for a human, the recommended dosage for NR is generally 250mg for a human. So if you were to ingest a dosage 600% higher than recommended, it follows that the kidneys may show some sort of inflammatory pathway activation. This is not shocking but rather common sense. And in general, if the bottle recommends taking 1 pill per day then don't take 6 pills per day and if you do well then your kidneys may need to clean up your mistake. Further, when the authors state "this dosing of NMN is still a more realistic model for the potential for excessive self-dosing, which is enabled by the current availability of many NAD+ precursors as over-the-counter supplements" they are showing bias, suggesting that it is NMN as a compound that is inherently problematic rather than people choosing to massively overdose NMN being problematic. I hope to one day read a legitimate study where more reasonable dosages are used and then we will see what if any harmful effects result from NMN. And I do understand that the bias on this channel is toward rapamycin, the "gold standard for longevity interventions", though I would hope in future to see clear, unbiased reviews of published research. Although I laughed out loud at Matt's reaction to saying Sinclair's name (that was classic), there is nothing to be gained by emulating his behavior even in the limited sense of conducting biased reviews of scientific studies.

[@stephaniehendricks225]

300mg per kg? Who in the world would do that? Of course that's going to be too much? How does this relate to 500mg-1000mg total per day for an avg human? If I were to do 300mg/kg it'd be 16g! Also, my nad level was 40 when i was taking niacin, looking forward to seeing what it is after nmn 1g for 6 months.

[@hongwinglee3073]

I am pretty sure it is per kg of food.

[@jamesgilmore8192]

Its 300mg per kg of body weight for the mouse. remember they weigh far less than us and there is a conversion factor for a human equivalent which will reduce the 300mg/kg to a much lower amount.

[@thewizardTim999]

If you calculate 80 kg human and 300 mg/kg you get 2.4 grams per day. It should be noted this was injected into the mice, not consumed orally. In oral human consumption the amount that gets though is reduced by the micobiome. I'm not saying there's little to be concerned about, but a human study really needs to be done, preferably with niacinamide in individual who do not suffer from gout or high levels of urea.

[@user-sn9eu5ni8l]

Nicotinic acid, through its receptor GPR109A, fights atherosclerosis. It is important to note that unlike nicotinic acid, nicotinamide does not directly affect the GPR109A receptor.

[@JannaMosk]

Excellent🙏

[@Lasertop]

Can you explain to us how 300mg/kg is not a high dose? I take 500mg a day, but at 180 lbs or 81kg that would mean I would have to take 24,300mg. Any supplement when taken to this extreme would be a bad thing.

[@henryhengheng9626]

The 300mg/kg dose is the mouse dose not human dose.

[@Lasertop]

@@henryhengheng9626 So how does that than translate to Human dose, because mg over kg seems pretty self-explanatory.

[@sml1801]

​@@Lasertop you have to use BSA conversion, but that has also flaws. But anyways its way less than 25g maybe closer to ~5-10g

[@Lasertop]

@@sml1801 Still even at 5 to 10 grams that is a bit excessive. Most people I know or read about that are taking it are taking 250mg to 1 gram. And the most I have heard of someone taking is 2 grams.

[@dcc08]

Matt, not directly related to this video (sorry!) but I wondered if you have any thoughts on C15:0? Don’t want to post links to other content here but I’ve seen claims that’s it’s ‘as beneficial as rapamycin’ at upregualting AMPK and inhibiting mTOR. Cheers!

[@maestroharmony343]

I wonder whether it is a dose dependent effect. It looks like it may be caused by an excess of NAD precursors.

[@Lasertop]

Yep, if I am reading this correctly I would have to take 24,300 mg to match what was feed the mice. If I take high levels of Vitimin D it becomes toxic and can damage your organs. Hell, if you drink to much water it can kill me!

[@jamesgilmore8192]

In the mice feed the 300mg/kg that's definitely possible. At super physiological doses you generally have changes in the metabolites in the pathway, and there can be an increase in some metabolites that would generally be low. If those metabolites cause problems then yes issues will arise of course. That's good for studies like this because you have something to publish. A future study would probably include a lower dose.

[@ccollins9981]

I suffer from actinic keratosis because of years of stupid sun damage.... The latest successful study on nicotinamide to control actinic keratosis was done using a dosage of 500 mg twice a day... So 1 G of nicotinamide per day... Resulted in a 27% decrease in actinic keratosis. Is this too much nicotinamide? Kidney damage possible?

[@jamesgilmore8192]

Its hard to know, that's what they are saying, meaning further study is needed. You could always run a self experiment by measuring uremic metabolites at zero and 1gram nicotinamide per day, making sure to control for diet exercise etc.

[@atitslan4776]

What's wrong with the flushing that niacin gives? feels great as long as I don't exceed 150 mg😅

[@Sadrul-Amin]

Nmn really good. I am using this more than 5 years . 1g a day. I am 48 years male . It’s a wonderful supplement.

[@steveroedde1]

How do you know? What data do you have to confirm your belief?

[@Sadrul-Amin]

@@steveroedde1 I know by myself using and geting benifit with this. If you do regular exercise then you can understand how powerful this .

[@jonathonmills3563]

NR has been tested in numerous human studies, and has shown no toxicity in the doses commonly used. That should have been mentioned.

[@normacastillo7895]

Kidney function was NOT assessed I believe. If so, your comment is meaningless.

[@jds02153]

All short term studies and nobody has looked at kidney pathology

[@60-Is-The-New-30]

WOW!!!!! I am so glad I do not take NMN!!!!!

[@xuxiaohong888]

You may try😊 no try , no know

[@chadspargo3064]

Could you address the effects of GlyNac on the hallmarks of aging. As I understand it, Nestle has a patent on the supplement and the study was done at the Baylor College of Medicine. I’ve seen very little testing on the supplement outside of the Baylor studies.

[@gregorybarnhart5342]

This was a comprehensive clinical trial. Do you have any idea how much these trials cost. These are non patentable amino acids so no company will fund them. No need to take a combo GlyNac capsule. In the trial they used 100mg/kg EACH of NAC and Glycine. If you weigh 70 kg, that means you need to take 7g/day of both NAC and Glycine. The largest dose capsules sold of NAC and Glycine is 1000 mg, so to replicate results you need to take 14 capsules a day. I take 4 each in AM on empty stomach( important for amino acids), and then 4 each in mid afternoon. My cost is about $7 day. They didn’t do a dose variable so no one knows if a lessor dose is as effective. I suggest older needs more as glutathione reduces with aging. I’m 76 so I want to replicate trial results and what’s the difference between 10 vs 16 a day. It’s still a hassle.

[@y.g.1313]

Your comment is weird. Why you just don't try glynac search on KZbin? It will take you about 30 days just to watch all the videos from very reputable sources about this. Never mind huge number of studies they would review and analyze.

[@maestroharmony343]

You prob confusing it with urolithin a

[@milycome]

Soooo wrong. NAC has been a non-patented Nutritional supplement sold over the counter without a prescription, Not only for years but for decades. So how does NAC suddenly out of the blue get a patent. Well guess what it CANNOT be patented. If water can be shown to have medicinal applications - say, it can be used to avoid / prevent dehydration it therefore (what ??????) can be patented ???? Anyone who believes water can be patented is in dire need of a REALITY CHECK ✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅.

[@milycome]

Soooo wrong. NAC has been sold as a nutritional supplement over the counter without a prescription for not only years but for decades. Just because a substance has been shown to have medicinal applications does Not mean it can ever receive a patent. If a study can be shown to demonstrate that water has a medicinal purpose for preventing dehydration, does it follow that water can receive a patent ??????????????????? Anyone that believes that water may be able to receive a patent is in dire need of a REALITY CHECK ✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅✔️✅.

[@Nilamoire]

I’m taking 1.5 to 3 g of nicotinamide based on several studies being done on it helping glaucoma patients. Studies will be out in 2026. It makes me nervous but I’m continuing the protocol for now. One doctor told me it’s a b vitamin so I’ll just pee it out, however how could it have a beneficial effect at such a high dose if mostly peed out? If it’s only a deficiency that needs correction for glaucoma than a much smaller dose would suffice. So, this is confusing to me.

[@nutech1810]

You're confused because you keep searching for info after it's been answered & has 18 studies. Your MD is correct. This MD is just pissed because it's cutting into his profits. If it's working where is your concern? 😂

[@jds02153]

👍👍

[@danieltan5489]

the amount tested on mice is crazily high ! 300mg/kg omg , a average 70kg human will only take 0.5-1g of nmn per day. the amount tested in mice is like 21g per day if used on humans! no wonder the kidney inflammation

[@js401]

NMN works 💪 for me .

[@JannaMosk]

Placebo effect