TDG: Dune

[@Derpy101]

I played Dune with friends last Saturday, I was Atredes and got wasted early by a very active emperor. For most of the game I was slowly struggling to get spice and prepare for taking back what I could. I carefully got ready for the endgame, teamed up with the Fremen after getting lucky with Spice pickups on the map and killing a leader. Then together we took back Carthag and Arrakeen on turn 10 after blowing up the shield wall and using weather control to oust the emperor and harkonens. We won two difficult combats with one or two forces remaining on the map. Absolutely amazing, made me question my house rule to end the game on turn 7 when playing with 6 players.

[@GeneraluStelaru]

The artwork is great. In fact, the reason for it being restrained makes me enjoy it even more.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

To each their own.

[@GeneraluStelaru]

Indeed. Let Shai-Hulud judge.

[@davedogge2280]

You know you've got a problem on your hands when after a late night game of Dune, the next morning when the alarm clock sounds and one shouts out: "Father ! the 'sleeper' has awoken !!".

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Dave Dogge Indeed.

[@tigerpjm]

I bought this as a piece of Dune memorabilia, and only later found out that it's a fantastic game. I could be biased as I kind of get into the fantasy of the setting whilst playing, but I love it. Plans within plans within plans - probably the best summary I could give. Great review! I agree that it's probably for a certain "type" of gamer. But if you're that type you'll love it. Cosmic Encounter players should hit their stride pretty quick.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Indeed.

[@MisterAbysmul]

Best review of this game I've seen yet. Thank you so much for your analysis of Done.. I mean Dune.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thank you, sir. Happy to help!

[@matthelion]

God created Arrakis to train the faithful

[@markziff7234]

After over 40 years the rise & fall & rise again of boardgames Holy Grail. Welcome back "Dune"

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Indeed.

[@GClubChannel]

I think if the aesthetics were much better, as you talked about, I would be more inclined to want to try it. But it looks like I should be playing this while sitting on my grandmother's shag carpet, watching the World Series on the console tv while my cousin hold the antenna, and my grandfather playing Hunt for Red October on the Tandy 1000. Thanks for the review!

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha! Thank you.

[@ItsJustJerFromJersey]

Me looking at my cards the entire game...." It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. "

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Oh, you kooky Mentat, you!

[@markherman50]

I want to compliment you on your discussion about 'king making' in game design. I have had the original since its publication and I remember it fondly. That said, it will be interesting to see how it well it has held up over time. I often find that my memory is fonder than my adult reality. My new copy arrives any day now, so I will have to look at the experience through this lens.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thank you. I agree that sometimes you're prior experiences with a game often don't hold up when you play it later. I've found that this is especially true of video games.

[@GeneraluStelaru]

How do you see it now? Aren't the alliances making up for the loss in lead?

[@AAhmou]

​@@GeneraluStelaruKinda but not really, Alliances can easily devolve into the 2 big factions allying and dunking on everyone else.

[@timlewellen6325]

God Emperor is the best and then Dune itself, Leto II is an amazing character.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Disagree that GE beats the original, but to each their own.

[@Emsworth377]

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer yeah, Dune is easily the best book. God emperor comes 2nd

[@thediceodyssey4690]

Great review! I've been considering picking this one up, I saw the new version at GENCON and I was curious if it would be worth it this time.

[@NVRMTmotion]

Kingmaking came into play on our very first playthough. 2nd to last turn I had the option of breaking my current alliance (sandworm) and boosting my now-ex ally to victory . . . or let the allied fremen/spaceguild win. I was the Emperor, and we'd been fighting together as allies since turn 2, so naturally I broke the alliance and kept the fremen/spaceguild at bay. I don't *think* i got voted off the island for that maneuver . . . but we haven't scheduled another game night since then . . . but then again, maybe my invite got "lost in the mail" XD

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

nvrmt Ha!

[@NVRMTmotion]

@@deepqantas no, my staying in the alliance would have caused us to lose, I was dead-broke and spiceless, and he had control of 3 cities and just needed to hold on. Since allies can't co-occupy cities all my forces were out in the dunes and there was no way for us to take a 4th before the fremen or space guild won by default at the end of the last round

[@andraslibal]

The best game I had is when we thought we won ... then the Bene Gesserit showed her prediction :))))

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha!

[@michaelwild888]

We got in the mail and played it the first weekend with six. It was a never-ending rules discussion. I was really happy to play it, but it has all the issues you mentioned. I would say "buy it" as it is cheap as games go, but understand it is for a group that can play it and still likes each other afterward.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Indeed.

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

Bless the Maker and his water, bless the coming and going of him, may his passage cleanse the world.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Fear is the mind killer.

[@NoEnemiesHere]

Shai-Hulud Muadib!

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

No Enemies Here To this day several of my friends call me Cua’dib.

[@PowrThru]

I really don’t think kingmaking is an issue. There’s a very interesting talk that Cole Wehrle did at GDC where he defends kingmaking in games and for me personally my tastes in games very much align to the points he makes. I am glad games like these exist and for the more care bear type players who might be offended by such gameplay I would say maybe just avoid these types of games, it doesn’t make a design choice less worthy to be implemented. The bulk of the hobby already caters towards those players so it’s nice to get a game with teeth every now and then for those of us that enjoy it. Hope this doesn’t sound condescending, that’s not my intention whatsoever, there is plenty of room in gaming for both design mindsets. Also great review as per usual for this channel.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Corey Small Good point.

[@dustbustus27]

Cody I would love to hear your thoughts on a comparison to Rex when you get sometime to enjoy that game again. Your awesome man! Best Christmas wishes to you and yours :-) 2020 is going to be a great year!

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thank you, sir. Hopefully I'll be able to play Rex again before too long and give you my impressions. Happy Christmas and New Year to you as well!

[@johnythefox100]

Really? a great year, you say?

[@robertfiester4914]

Watch out for the Shield Wall...it's a killer! Good review Cody!

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thank you. And yes. Yes it is.

[@KXC42069]

The lady at the end seems like a stage play... Was there a Dune: the musical??

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha! No. Just my friend Kylie.

[@tomtom34b]

I think I´m gonna buy it. Maybe it will collect dust in my collection, BUT, it is quite affordable. Maybe if it had too fancy miniatures it would become too expensive, so I don´t mind that. I only knew about the Parker game (1984?) that I played as a kid, and never knew about this even older gem. And as a fan of Dune, the movie, and a fan of dune the books (I agree they sortof go downhill later), I think I have to buy it.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

I hope you get a chance to play it. It is pretty fun.

[@RicksPoker]

The only thing GF 9 did is update the art. Other than the leaders, the art in the new version is better than the AH version of the game.

[@Bandit-Darville]

Welcome back commander. Wait, wrong game.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha!

[@attiladukai2121]

This game almost killed Blood Rage, Rising Sun and Scythe for us. Because my group almost always wanna play this one... and I'm not even regret it. However we like the other games too. BTW your friend at 06:06 in the top right corner looks like Woody Harrelson x'D

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

I can see that. It's a great game.

[@GeneraluStelaru]

Scythe is very shallow anyway.

[@attiladukai2121]

@@GeneraluStelaru after maybe 10 games, honestly... I feel the same.

[@bill6735]

Fear is the mind killer.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

That little death that brings total obliteration.

[@ocularorb4021]

as much as I love the art work I do think the leaders and whatnot could be more diverse. its not like a big issue or anything but like the fremen have arabic sounding names so youd think theyd update the art a lil. dont get me wrong though, this is literally my favorite gamer ever, highest recommendation.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Fantastic!

[@ПешкоМихаил]

I'd like to hear your openion on compatison of Rex and Dune. I have Rex and look forward to buy dune

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

I've got to hit Rex again before I feel comfortable commenting on it. I haven't played it in several years.

[@CastleArchon]

I would think that Kingmaker stuff is logical. They should just consider it a minor victory instead of a major victory. You didn't lose. You survived.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Indeed.

[@Ad3tr]

Have you played Inis? I’ve heard that doubles down on the king making and makes it more palatable. I wonder if king making is just an inherent part of a game with such an asymmetric ecosystem of players roles.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Could be. I haven't played Inis. Sounds interesting.

[@laurentleyssens2998]

Heuuu we don't spell it ''duné'' in french lol. The prononciation is rather similar from the english one

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha! I know. Just having a bit of fun.

[@armandolizarraga8981]

Great example of traitor card sir!

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Indeed! Best part of the game!

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

Yueh, yueh, yueh...

[@ScrewtopReviews]

I appreciate getting a review from someone who understands and enjoys the Frank Herbert books. I havent read any of the Herbert/Anderson ones. Are they worth the time?

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thanks. They are not as good, but they are fun. More plot driven than idea driven.

[@markherman50]

Dune is one of the classic SciFi novels and in my mind the jewel of the series. Like Clockwork Orange it takes about 50 or more pages before you start to understand the context for the remainder of the book. Dune is a trilogy and if you read these and stop there you won't be disappointed. Then there are the other dozen books which Herbert only wrote one and a half before he passed away. Then his son took up the mantle and they are ok to uneven. However, the prequel of three novels that the son wrote hit another high in my mind.

[@markherman50]

Dune is one of the classic SciFi novels and in my mind the jewel of the series. Like Clockwork Orange it takes about 50 or more pages before you start to understand the context for the remainder of the book. Dune is a trilogy and if you read these and stop there you won't be disappointed. Then there are the other dozen books which Herbert only wrote one and a half before he passed away. Then his son took up the mantle and they are ok to uneven. However, the prequel of three novels that the son wrote hit another high in my mind.

[@ScrewtopReviews]

@@markherman50 I've read all of Frank's Dune books. Are the prequels the Butlerian Jihad ones? Which of those dozen come after Chapterhouse?

[@markherman50]

You will have to look at a list as I do not remember all of the titles. I thought they were interesting if you are a fan of the series, which I am, but overall none of them rose to the level of the original three. That said, the Butlerian Jihad, one of them is called the Machine Crusade, for me rose to the level of interest as the original three. Apparently they are based on Herbert's original notes.

[@42Randomise]

They actually engaged one of the two most popular print and play designers for his art and design. I was close to printing my own copy with this art before it was announced. However despite being a huge dune book fan I haven't pulled trigger as my boardgame get togethers are usually 3-4 players..

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Yeah. I think you need the full six for the full effect.

[@ngamashaka4894]

For Dune, you don't prononce the E at the end in French.. Sorry we say dûnn.. :) www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/dune/26977?q=dune#26841 *dune (n.)* "mound, ridge, or hill of loose sand heaped up by the wind near the coast of a sea," 1790, from French, Middle Dutch or Middle Low German dune, all of which are perhaps from Gaulish *dunom (making it cousin to down (n.2) "small, rounded hill"). The French dune "sand hill" (13c.) is held by Diez to be an *Old French* borrowing from Dutch duin or some other Germanic source. Italian and Spanish duna are from French. The English word is perhaps also partial a dialectal form of down (n.2). Dune buggy, "recreational motor vehicle designed for use on beaches," is attested by 1965.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ngama Shaka Uh... Im pretty sure the French say Duné.

[@ngamashaka4894]

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer If you said that as a verbe but it would be strange like if you are making dunes.. :) Je dune, Tu dunes.. Il dune.. :) Or j'ai dunné, Tu as dunné... In Spanish, I've heard, they do prononce all the letters.. In French only half.. more sexy I guest :)

[@Raeez100]

Comparison with Game of thrones?

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Game of Thrones has always been one of my favorites. I'd need to play this one more to see if it competes.

[@guenteroelfke3005]

And ? :)

[@rexross1461]

Good call on the Apple tv 🤣

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha! Actually I've been enjoying some of its shows.

[@deadwolf2978]

ohh poor Cody. you dont know that GF9 just picked up the rules perfected over 20+ years of print n play community and added art from community contributor made in 2007 (althogh they did pay him). They even have not playtested it. cuz, why should they spent effort on it? :D

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Dead Wolf Poor Cody is right. You have no idea.

[@deadwolf2978]

thats really enlightening :)

[@slowmodeproductions]

I'm a little upset that you didn't fully endorse this game. I think everyone should buy it! Haha My only recommendation after a few plays if you want to mix it up is to either do a double spice blow and/or reduce allies to a certain amount.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

How would you reduce allies?

[@GeneraluStelaru]

Double spice blow is already a thing in the rules.

[@richhutnik2477]

Moment Cody takes Spice, things get really weird.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

That's for sure. I can see my future videos cracking the 300 views barrier.

[@richhutnik2477]

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer You will lose half the views to the Guild.

[@vladycavret2886]

I do not know any area control game that do not have king maker effect, barony, Cyclades, Inis, rising sun .... So if you want to play this kind of game, you have accept it. Or area control games is just not for you.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Some games reach the point where it is obvious that you will not win sooner than others, however.

[@dhmcarver]

Very interested in this review -- glad you did it, it was really informative (far more than others I have watched), and it has given much me to chew on as I weigh adding this to my collection. Seems a while since I have seen you so qualified about a review -- Hitler's Reich,, perhaps? I am a big fan of the IP -- or, I should say, the original novel (I think I read all of the Frank Herbert sequels at one point, but only the first every truly grabbed me). I might wait to see if a second edition comes out -- perhaps if this sells well, and Denis Villeneuve's take next year does well, Gale Force Nine will think about tweaking this.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

That's certainly a possibility. If nothing else they might come out with a movie edition.

[@peco2469]

For me this is very bad version of Cosmic encouter . I really want it to like it ... But it just.... I dont know , we lost so much time playing it. And we where glad that the game is finally over so we can play cosmic encouter...

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Wow. I was seriously underwhelmed with Cosmic Encounter. It was really talked up for me and when I first played I thought, "this is it?" Dune is a great dudes on a map game that, while occasionally showing its age, nevertheless offers an epic sci-fi feel and a great gameplay. However, I do recognize that it is not a game for everyone.

[@Tombonzo]

Yeah.... King-making in games is not worth losing friends over or pissing people off! I guess unless everyone playing is into that and/or knows that going into (any) particular game of that style. Pass.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Tom D There is a lot here to like m. Hopefully you can try it at some point.

[@tomtom34b]

Done! hahhaha

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Indeed.

[@pandemonic66]

First! Great review!

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thanks. But you posted this about two minutes after the video was posted. How could you have known it was a good review unless you are a time traveler? As you are correct, that it is a good review, I must ask, what is your secret to moving through time?

[@pandemonic66]

Yes I am. I didnt find king making a issue in this game, I actually found this game to be less of king making game than other games like Twilight Imperium. In Dune, you can make the alliance win (2 players) while other games your stuck with only 1 player winning so alliances are really tough to support to the end. On top of that there is alternative ways to win through special win condition which I found to be very fun. I think this game is for more experienced players and role players .....than super serious jealous players and casual players.

[@mattlowder]

typical gale force nine production botch.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

matthlowder I’ve been pleased with GFN game productions. What don’t you like?

[@mattlowder]

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer that's the thing. Half of their games are really on point, but a few others have some dated graphic design stuff going on, even if the art is nice, like sons of anarchy, Vault of Dragons, and now this. It's just fine, but also kind of flat compared to much of the hobby right now.

[@42Randomise]

matthlowder it's a specific design one of the two most popular print and play designs from bgg. They engaged what the fans wanted. I understand it's muted but I really like it and builds on classic feel I think.

[@mattlowder]

@@42Randomise I respect it as intentional throwback.