Tesla's Gigacasting Alloy // Patent Application & Science

[@tavi_chocochip]

Hey Jordan, this is honestly quite impressive work, even more so given your non-specialist background! This is the level that would typically be expected of a final-year Materials Science grad student and (I'm ashamed to say) I interacted with a couple of Materials PhD students who had a lower level of understanding than you do on these somewhat general topics! You might tell I'm quite excited to see this topic described as accurately and in as much detail as you managed. It speaks to your dedication and ability to process somewhat abstract info, but also proves how much information is now freely available online for those who want to understand a complex technical topic they have no formal training in. It also, however, shows that some things are better understood in a Q&A format, as we tend to fill in gaps in understanding with assumptions which sometimes are not correct (I should know, I've been guilty of that many times). That said, if you'll allow me -- and since I suspect these things interest you -- I'll add a few notes, and apologies if you already know some of these: 1. When you discuss the composition of an alloy and how the different elements affect the mechanical, physical and chemical properties (the part starting at 15:06), it's important to keep in mind that many of those additions are selected bc they form secondary phases (precipitates, dispersoids) in the matrix, and it's THOSE secondary phases which contribute the desired properties. Most of those phases are intermetallic compounds which typically have a strict ratio between their elements (that's called stoichiometry). In practice, what that means is that by controlling the ratio between two or more elements you can control *which* phases precipitate, and *in what volume fraction*; it also allows you to use two strengthening mechanisms concurrently: precipitation strengthening (the above) and solid-solution strengthening (you mentioned it in the video), by controlling how much of the alloying element contributes to precipitate formation and how much stays in the matrix and forms a solid solution with the main element (Al, in this case). This is discussed in the patent as well, see for instance paragraph 0062. The only exception to this is in the melt, when it's all a solution; in this alloy, that's when Si addition has a linear relationship with the flowability (increases latent heat) up to a limit. Steels (which you used as an example) do have a bunch of secondary phases precipitating in the matrix, but Fe (in contrast to Al, Ni, Mg, etc.) exhibits an allotropic transformation such that it has different structures at high and low temperatures. Adding C stabilises the high-temp phase to an extent, and cooling rapidly leads to the formation of yet other phases (martensite or mixes, leading to pearlite, bainite etc.). That's the whole matrix transforming. Nothing wrong in what you explained in the video, just thought you might appreciate understanding the distinction. 2. Grain size affects strength via the grains' capacity to accommodate (store) dislocations; these are planar defects via which a ductile material (a metal) deforms without failing. Small grains can store fewer dislocations, and as new dislocations "want to come in", there's a higher stress barrier they need to overcome. This effect is known as strain hardening: as you deform a material, it gets harder. A fine-grained material starts off harder, but also hardens faster, and breaks earlier. That's the strength/ductility trade-off you mentioned. The "snags" you mentioned... well, you might know this, but basically the grain boundaries act as dislocation diffusion barriers, leading to the effect I just described. Smaller grains means higher density of boundaries, means more barriers, means more limited dislocation slip, means harder material. Your explanation put the point across, though. 3. On the comparison between Sandy Munro's spectroscopy results and Tesla's patent composition, I suspect there might be the case of measurement error. Spectrometers need careful calibration, and they're not good at accurately quantifying both light and heavy elements at the same time. A worse possibility would be significant compositional heterogeneity in the castings, but... I kinda doubt that. 4. At 13:30, your comment on saving 17% on cost and weight: it might seem intuitively correct, but consider that a weaker material requires a thicker cross-section to get the same part strength, and with HPDC designs you aim for as thin a cross-section as possible, in order to control the cooling curve and the resulting microstructure. 17% might not seem like a lot, but we don't know what their internal calculations resulted in in terms of min. required strength. 5. At 20:15, the discussion on the morphology of the precipitates: I wrote a reply to another comment on this, tried to explain how it correlates to the matrix ductility. Those precipitates are brittle intermetallic compounds, as described above. 6. At 23:55 - it's less about the technical capabilities of developing a new alloy (that can be done, either internally or by collaborating with a materials research institute or university) and more about the unwillingness of the management to launch into a risky, costly project. Basically, the CapEx required for the HPDC machines -- not to mention thinking about asking manufacturers to increase the machine capacity -- is what stops most other automakers who much rather prefer steady-state, very gradual improvements in their technology. Sorry for the disertation!

[@thelimitingfactor]

Hey man! That's a big compliment thanks! 🤜🤛🔥

[@eriktempelman2097]

Pretty good additions, my compliments .

[@steveperreira5850]

Well done Jordan, very well done. I remember these phase diagrams from my materials engineering courses. Yes there is much to be discovered and it is great to see a fine methodology applied by the scientists and engineers at Tesla. This is how real progress is made. In my engineering career I was lucky to work at a company that invested in research and development, and it was a great joy to be able to come up with something new. Best wishes, Steve

[@hardernl8893]

Thanks for your input. This particular video really has generated a lot of added value thanks to the many, many authoritative commenters like you. Looking ahead, the next video will be about the HPDC process itself. From what I learned here there are a lot of variables at play and I expect it will be a tall order for Jordan to keep it lucid and concise as usual. Can you already predict whether Jordan will have to refer to the truckloads of presumably rejected casts coming out of the Austin plant to highlight the multi-variable process that need to be tuned and tweaked.. if not developed completely new for applications beyond the current status quo in Fremont and Shanghai?

[@macgyvervanschwartzenstall4662]

Billy Wu might be the real hero

[@curtaustin8119]

Very good analysis, and this is coming from a PhD metallurgist who worked in alloy development (though not for aluminum alloys). A few things worth mentioning: 1. Alloy compositions are specified to allow for the use of scrap and other inputs to the production of alloys. The low vanadium content may be there only for that reason (it seems too low to have much effect, but I'm guessing; such low values when actually purposeful commonly have impact only at grain boundaries. 2. The patent situation for alloys is a mess given a morass of overlapping claims in other patents. Patents do not give you a right to practice the invention, only the right to exclude others. You may need a license from someone owning a previous, over-lapping patent. A cross-licensing agreement is a common solution if an overlap exists and if the other party bothers to object. Patent litigation is expensive, and can open a can of worms, so there can be great hesitancy to litigate.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Dude! Excellent feedback thanks! Really happy to see someone here that can see across silos.

[@donjones4719]

"'Patent litigation is expensive, and can open a can of worms, so there can be great hesitancy to litigate." Ha! This must be what Elon Musk was referring to when he called a patent "buying a lottery ticket to lawsuits."

[@curtaustin8119]

@@donjones4719 Hadn't heard that quote. He's a smart guy.

[@donjones4719]

@@curtaustin8119 It's actually in one of the stills in this video, a page on Elon/Tesla making their patents open back in c.2013 or 2014. Towards the end of the video.

[@iGreen_]

This an amazing video. I can't believe the research that must've went into this. Well scripted, and well delivered for even simpletons to understand. Very interesting stuff!

[@alanmay7929]

Lol.....

[@CarlWithACamera]

Agreed. He deserves far more subscribers and views.

[@stevemillward5712]

Bjbk knonkononk ono o

[@hippie-io7225]

Great video! I really appreciate that you do not "speak leading zeroes". Many KZbinrs speak numbers incorrectly. 0.02% should not be spoken "zero point zero two percent". The leading zero is totally unnecessary. That is appropriate for writing (if not the standard), but NOT appropriate for speaking. Thank you for saying "point zero two percent". Totally contributes to your excellent clarity.

[@musaran2]

Even for writing, when filling large tables the repeating digits just get in the way of readability. My spreadsheets align decimal ranks, omit unit-0, use SI prefix instead of non-significant numbers, grays out unimportant vales, and often use color scales.

[@hippie-io7225]

@@musaran2 Your spreadsheet approach sounds more efficient. Every extra character makes our brain work harder than it needs to.

[@mitchellsteindler]

@@hippie-io7225 no...it doesn't. If I present you with a sentence made entirely of abbreviations, you will work harder to read it than an equivalent sentence of complete words. Also, in my personal experience, I can much more easily read decimal numbers which have a leading zero. So, no, your perspective isn't the only one that exists.

[@hippie-io7225]

@@mitchellsteindler You are correct. My perspective is not the only one that exists.

[@MorganMadej]

Mesmerising! Almost hypnotic dialogue for a retired UK telecom technician. It is mind boggling that Tesla goes to such extremes for their products, but with the calibre and mindset of its craftsmen one has to admire them for their skills and Elon for giving them the time and space to achieve the desired result. Thank you for an excellent presentation!

[@johntheux2ecompte56]

People should not confuse ductility and elongation. 7xxx alloys have high elongation but are very brittle. The main difference is after maximum stress when deformation is localised. On the graph that's only a few % because we measure elongation between two free floating pliers, but locally the deformation is a few hundred % for ductile materials.

[@thelimitingfactor]

I wouldn't say I confused it, but I feel like I packed enough into this video to understand the alloy patent - which was the end goal.

[@eriktempelman2097]

I can not agree. Ductility is one of those tricky terms that refuses a simple definition. It relates to strain hardening (and hence, indirectly to ratio of tensile strength to yield strength), but also to forming limit curves. However, the simplest link is to elongation i.e. nominal strain-to-failure. What makes you think otherwise?

[@johntheux2ecompte56]

@@eriktempelman2097 Well on Wikipedia they litteraly use local necking to illustrate the difference between a brittle and ductile material...

[@vermontsownboy6957]

"Thank you" feels so shallow and insufficient compared to the content. These video series are beyond amazing. The depth and breadth of Jordan's research beggars reality. Seriously?....who does this rather than chase the algorithm? KZbin Gem quality. Jordan, I hope you land your dream job with Tesla, if that's your wish.

[@charleslivingston2256]

I love your ability to research new topics in depth and distill the key points with both the what and how, buy also the why.

[@thelimitingfactor]

I appreciate the support Charles!

[@dr-k1667]

He also makes the information enjoyable and fun to watch, at least for me. I think many people would enjoy this even if they are not a geek.

[@benc1927]

The ultimate Tesla Detective, I am blown away by this presentation , Well done sir

[@benjaminlujan3789]

Thank you.

[@markhooker8520]

Phenomenal informative video. I’m an engineer and am deeply impressed with your thoroughness and clarity. Great job.

[@eriktempelman2097]

Some further input... Aluminium casting alloys contain lots of silicon to improve fluidity, reduce shrinkage, and lower the melting temperature. In cast iron, carbon does the same trick. Steel is actually a beast to cast, and comparing steel to cast aluminium is IMHO not helpful. In high pressure die castings, you get extra strength because of the small grain size, in turn due to the high cooling rate. However, entrapped aluminium oxides typically make the part brittle. FYI, this is completely different in iron and steel, as these can not be cast this way. AUDI and ALCOA solved this in the 1990's by developing their Vacural technology, I.e. casting under vacuum. No air, no oxides, great strength and ductility. What I am missing most in this video is a discussion of Tesla's solution: do they use vacuum or not? ENJOY this comment, which is my way of appreciating the video. There is 25+ years of experience behind it, which does not mean I am right all the time of course. But pretty confident.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Hey man! Yes! They use Vaccum casting. More on that in the next gigacasting video

[@lachywocky]

I wonder if they use an inert gas but also under a vacuum as a complete vacuum is near impossible esp as these cycle rates. but that prob has limited benefits. prob pointless with the inert gas!

[@johntheux2ecompte56]

If you are wondering why some brittle alloys have high elongation that's because elongation is related to work hardening. As long as the material gets stronger faster than it gets thinner the deformation will be even. As soon as the material gets thinner faster than it gets stronger the sample itself will get weaker, which means that deformation will localize at the weakest point in the sample.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Agggh, good point. I came across that but I was possibly too laser focused here.

[@iRwatcher]

"Elon-gation is related to work hardening". More profound than you, perhaps, imagined.

[@eriktempelman2097]

Wrong. Brittleness is basically defined by having little to no elongation. What makes you think otherwise ?

[@curtaustin8119]

@@eriktempelman2097 "Brittle" is an often mis-used term. Ceramics are genuinely brittle, but an alloy that has been mis-heat treated might be called embrittled only because its ductility has been reduced. The subject is ripe for over-simplification, since the full characterization of a material regarding the underlying concept - resistance to sudden failure, shall we say simplistically - must consider temperature, strain rate, environment, and the application requirements - both as considered during design and after field experience grades your paper. How much ductility is required for an automotive casting? I once funded research on questions like that, and peered into jet engines through borescopes myself - difficult to know.

[@mitchellsteindler]

@@curtaustin8119 what is the functional differentiation between embattled metal and what you refer to as truly brittle. Like ceramic. Not scientific differentiation, functional. If there's no functional difference, then I don't see how they're not the same thing.

[@1956Taz]

Being a recently retired Tool, Die, Mold Maker, your video and description is clear and easy to follow. I always enjoyed, and did extremely well in, my Ferrous and Non Ferrous Metallurgy classes in my Apprenticeship. Good Job to both you in your video, Monroe Associates and Tesla Engineers developing new and innovative designed alloys.

[@helmutshotthesheriff1942]

ALL OF US : please support on Patreon the hard work behind this brilliant video ! Thanks for the deep dive Jordan ! 😃🍻👍🇳🇴

[@Akira-nw4jl]

I totally enjoy your videos especially since you show true technology information rather than just marketing features like almost everyone else tend to emphasize. I especially like the fact that Tesla, incredibly smart on their part, patent or attempt to patent many innovations they design not to monopolize on their invention but rather not merely accepting that something is perhaps not patentable . this protects them from unscrupulous persons who will go behind there backs and probably get a patent for something Tesla actually invented and sue Tesla for alot of money or charge them for royalties.

[@alanmcintyre9296]

Given the amount of machine learning expertise they have in house, I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla has some machine learning models helping guide their alloy search.

[@mitchellsteindler]

It's hard for me to see how machine learning would help in this case, beyond normal statistical models. We aren't talking millions of data points here.

[@normcfu]

I don't know if just knowing what's in an alloy means you can produce it. There may be steps in the mixing process that are required. Some of the additives may need to be added at different temperatures or in a certain order. There may be catalysts needed during mixing that are not part of the final product. You can probably think of other things that may not be specified in the patent application.

[@legobis4484]

A patent, in order to be granted, needs to enable those skilled in the art to make and use the invention. If the process steps are hidden, the patent will not be granted.

[@normcfu]

@@legobis4484 Thanks, that's good to know. I was just saying that a competitor that analyzed the content of the alloy might still not be able to duplicate Tesla's castings. As you said, if there's a patent, then that recipe could be followed.

[@Lukenukkem]

Yup, recipe prep and final structure (baking) is a real thing.

[@kstaxman2]

I have just watched this video 4 times in a row. As amazing as all your videos are this one has more to digest and appreciate in one video than any you have put out IMHO. Every once in a while you see a new idea that's more than creative or even novel but goes all the way to ELEGANT. Tesla showes with this patent just why they are never going to be caught by the other car companies. They aren't a car company they are a technology company that happens to also make cars along with a lot of other things. Cars are just an expression of who they are not the definition of who they are.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Thanks man! I appreciate that 🤜🤛. The viewer count doesn't always indicate the usefulness of a video, so the comments help!

[@kstaxman2]

@@thelimitingfactor your level of technical expertise doesn't always attract some as your work is much deeper than many are interested in. I and your steady followers want more neat on the bone than many. Just glad you produce quality videos that are there for those of us who want that deeper dive.

[@alanmay7929]

Lol.....

[@martylawson1638]

Figured it was a copper based alloy like 2024 as they tend to naturally age to peak hardness. Interesting that it's actually a lower copper than typical with a dash of this and that to compensate.

[@kizzik]

Jordan, thanks for your excellent works. Totally geeked-out on Tesla's materials science tech. Tesla/SpaceX: When love and skill, and A.I. and Agile, and flat management system, and groups of centenial geniuses work together, expect alien technologies.

[@donjones4719]

Yes. No other car company would come close to Tesla's new paradigm of a car structure made of two gigacastings and an integral battery pack - a pack containing a revolutionary battery manufactured a revolutionary way. It would never occur to them. Could never occur to them. The accompanying cost savings are hard to comprehend. (Of course the R&D going into this has to be amortized.)

[@roberthawxhurst3717]

Interesting that Tesla's patent is essentially a compex recipe. Hypereutectic . pistons are high silicone 16~18% and are similar to forged pistons in performance. Tesla 7~8% silicone content looks to be on low side of high silicone.

[@dksculpture]

Thanks 🙏 Brings me back to my Material Science & Engineering classes with much new content too. Good stuff. 👍

[@Piimenta]

It's amazing the depth at which a business major is able to delve into such technical subjects and present them with such clarity and detail. You, sir, are the goat.

[@thelimitingfactor]

🤜🤛🤠

[@susanrosegale6646]

Went from subscribed to bell notice....amazing work! Everyone has been saying the casting Tesla is doing is cutting edge, but this helps to understand why. It's like getting to sit in on a meeting that few get to sit in on. I like your images, time stamps (I go back to rereview often as I am just a laymen) and explanations. Thank you

[@xman933]

Fantastic video. This is precisely why Tesla is leaving every other EV or ICE OEM in their wake. Name one other OEM that incorporates this kind of fundamental R&D in their core capabilities? To those who question Tesla’s valuation, this is an example of why it is what it is & why Tesla’s stock at its current price is a bargain.

[@eriktempelman2097]

Since you asked: FORD collaborated with ALCOA to develop a new alloy for the F150 body. ALCOA built a special plant to make it. Please don't think that only Tesla is doing cool stuff 😉

[@donm2255]

@@eriktempelman2097 Tesla didn't collaborate with anyone. They created an alloy that doesn't need heat treating or protective coatings after the casting. Ford doesn't have the material sciences group necessary to create new alloys. Hence they are using what ALCOA created. Sounds like Ford just partnered with them to use it exclusively. Tesla's accomplishment here can not be understated. This has changed manufacturing--not just auto manufacturing. They did something that even ALCOA couldn't do.

[@benjaminsmith2287]

@@eriktempelman2097 Hmmm.

[@j121212100]

Great overview! You can really distill subject matter to its fundamental components. Less copper is the reason I used 6061-T6 instead of 6063 for the crossbeam on my catamaran forestay.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Awesome! That provides a great link to a real world application

[@eriktempelman2097]

This is incorrect. 6063 contains no copper, 6061 about 1%.

[@j121212100]

@@eriktempelman2097 You are right i had it backwards.

[@j121212100]

@@eriktempelman2097 I actually went with 6061-T6 for my boat due to the higher strength compared to 6063-T6. It is still marine grade alumminum alloy and has much less copper than 7075 which was my first choice for strength but it is not suitable for a marine environment. 6063 has the least at a max of 0.10% where as 6061 has anywhere from 0.15% to 0.45%. And 7075 has 1.2 to 1.6% copper.

[@eriktempelman2097]

For marine purposes, I recommend staying away from the 6000 series, and avoid 7000 like the plague. Use a 5000 series instead, work hardened for strength (H18 condition), and join with adhesives.

[@milospavkovic2881]

There is no channel like this, so much insight, amazing. Thank you so much and keep up the awesome work! 👏

[@michielecker]

Hi Jordan, impressive research! Just one point that I'd like to add regarding the cost of materials. In my background as a project engineer for Nuclear applications, the cost of the materials themselves usually represent a very, very small percentage of the final cost. Much more important is the precision on the content of the materials and the QA follow-up such as analyzing, testing and reporting on this material. So, the important part is less so the material % themselves but rather the error margin on the different compounds, how well they're "mixed into' the block and the precision of the analysis required to confirm these margins. For example, how big are Tesla's margins on these material compounds. if there's a small % change on one of the compounds, is it immediately unusable or do they have a similarly large margin on these compounds as is usual in the industry? I don't have much experience on materials specifically themselves, so can't estimate whether their precision required is more than usual, but the QA to confirm their compound is what will influence pricing (IMO). To give you an idea, for a usual valve that I would buy for the Nuclear Power Plants, 80% of the prices is usually our QA requirements while 20% is the price you'd pay if you'd buy this same valve "of the shelf". I'm sure it's not like that for Tesla, but it's just to show you what QA can add to pricing in some cases.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Great insight thanks! So many knowledgeable people in this thread.

[@donjones4719]

A similar QA cost probably applies to SpaceX for a lot of their Falcon 9 rocket components since it is human-rated. However, they're doing QA on their own in-house products so there's no cost-innefficient back and forth with the supplier. As noted in the video, the VP in charge of alloys/materials is the same man for SpaceX and Tesla. Idk if this carries over from one to the other for specific materials but know that SpaceX invented new alloys for the turbines in the Raptor engine. Elon is clearly not content to be limited by whatever materials are available on the market.

[@grhinson]

It would be interesting to know Tesla/SpaceX casting specifications and the required amounts of MTRs that come with their castings

[@dr-k1667]

So excited for this newest video especially with Giga Berlin about to start. So much excitement which is improved when you begin to understand at a deeper level why Tesla is a LEADER. Thanks so much for your work, it really helps!

[@RobDarman]

Thank you for another amazing video. When I first saw your battery videos I assumed you worked in the field and were reporting on it. Seeing you bring similar levels of insight to other technologies is bringing me to a another level of appreciation. You have an amazing ability to analyze, distill and share information. Thank you so much for sharing your insights.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Hey thanks Rob!

[@WileHeCoyote]

I love your deep dives Jordan! I could listen to that smooth geesegy voice tell me about battery lines, lithium mines and giga press alloys all day!!

[@kirkuleez5353]

Great work. This is why you hang on to your Tesla stock. Engineering at Tesla is far superior to the legacy OEMs.

[@ip400]

I'm 100% certain that no other company on earth engineers materials except of Tesla.

[@tarunce995]

I always had question about mild steel having different alloy composition. With explanation of stress & strain & alloys i have cleared my long standing doubt. I have ever thought of stress & strain difference clearly this much. Thank you. You explained very well. Engineering sucks because of worse explanation/ teaching methods. In india esp. Unfortunately a engineer un india. & A civil Engineer.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Corrections Freedom to Operate: The patent office doesn’t investigate or establish freedom to operate, but a search report does give the applicant info that helps the applicant understand the patent landscape. Infringement: The job of the patent office is to determine whether there is a patentable invention (New, Inventive, and industrially applicable), not to determine infringement. Infringement occurs out in the real world when an applicant does something that steps on the claims of an active patent. That is, it doesn't have to do with the patent office. Better wording should have been used in the video: "The application would have helped Tesla get a better understanding of the patent landscape around the alloy and it confirms that Tesla's alloy appears to be unique. If Tesla has infringed on someone's patent, it would be up to the patent holder or applicant to address this with Tesla."

[@danielvazquez8966]

Hey great video! In this case Strontium is quite important since it changes the morphology of the silicon present in the eutectic. Check out the fourth chapter of Polmear's book "Light Alloys - From Traditional Alloys to Nanocrystals" if you are interested.

[@thelimitingfactor]

@@danielvazquez8966 Hey man! Yeah, I left it out because it wasn't in the production alloy. The patent was bursting with information...I had to stay focused, lol.

[@TheZoneTakesYou]

14:01 thanks charles kuehmann for replacing lead with strontium. probably helps flowability characteristics(lead makes such a slimy alloy out of anything) but he ultimately went with an alloy chemistry that was more eco friendly.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Interesting point!

[@AB-ts2xd]

I won’t be surprised if XPeng figures this out quickly! With a R&D team of over 4000

[@ip400]

Now need of 4000 head R&D team to figure that out. The chemical composition is in this video.

[@pauleohl]

When melting to form an aluminum alloy that contains copper, the foundry does not buy expensive copper ingots, or copper scrap but uses copper bearing scrap, like aluminum alloy 2024 and/or uses mixed aluminum/copper scrap. Typical mixed aluminum/copper scrap is from a/c coils, which are copper tubing and aluminum fins.

[@feandil666]

thanks man, it's rare to find people who actually go really "in depth" about technology like that. lots of Tesla fans just think everything Musk says is gospel and they never look at the actual interesting stuff.

[@johnmqueripel2367]

Excellent, incredible amount of work and succinctly enunciated. This really helps the layman get a closer idea of the sort of expertise Tesla has and also just how far ahead of the game they are.

[@alanmay7929]

Ahead of what?! They're certainly not ahead in the alloy department tbh. There are alot more alloys in the industry developed by other manufacturers for soooo many different applications.

[@johnmqueripel2367]

@@alanmay7929 Well no-one else is using their Giga Press alloy, or Giga Press technology for a start.

[@alanmay7929]

@@johnmqueripel2367 lol.....

[@delkroupa]

This is not just DD, but DDDD, deep dive due diligence. Great job.

[@musaran2]

More like this DD deserves an A+. :)

[@MagnumiPad]

I don't know how you do it, but I like it. Keep up the good work.

[@aurelio-reymilaorcabal9669]

Jordan has the best channel in regards to how the Giga process and materials and Metalurgy involved, I hope Electric Viking sees these vloggs , he was looking for somebody who knew more about the Giga press and castings.

[@gerrymcfaul]

Thank you Jordan for all of your diligence in putting these together. Obviously you put a lot of time and energy into these and we all appreciate it. I'm signed up for the Cybertruck, which will have an air suspension. The rest of the vehicle is designed for 1 million miles; what can we expect from air suspension on pickups/toy haulers? Are they truly only an 80,000 mile item that then needs major repairs, or can they be built of better materials and last as long as the rest of the vehicle?

[@Nphen]

I have begun to think about air suspension issues on my 2 CT reservations as well. I want to be able to use them as rentals to pay them off. A friend mentioned he had trouble working on air suspension for a friend's Jeep. I own an air compressor for air tools and while the tech is getting better, it's not something that lasts forever. As a shareholder, I think that right-to-repair is not emphasized nearly enough in the Tesla community. This sounds like something Tesla charges $20k for and won't sell parts for.

[@alanmay7929]

Air suspensions is actually not that useful tbh, a regular or adaptative suspension is better and last way longer, plus its not expensive to repair.

[@alanmay7929]

The toyota land cruiser has been using hydraulic suspensions which are honestly the best in the world, those needs absolutely no maintenance and last way longer than air suspensions. Hydraulic suspension is also way faster to adapt with vehicle movements.....

[@alanmay7929]

@@Nphen there is absolutely not such thing as "last forever" you want something that can last forever then use zero electronics like the very early cars.

[@donm2255]

Tesla has a good bit of experience with their air suspension on the Model S. I would assume the Cybertruck will be even better and more robust.

[@bluetoad2668]

A very well researched and presented video yet again. Thanks.

[@markharmon4963]

Patent motivation slide at 22:50 was great subject matter. Another motivation to have a patent is also not to block others but to prevent others from blocking you from using your own developments "a la" Nikola and their Semi cab design overlapping with Tesla Semi. You actually m as keep this point at the end.

[@lorenblaine5275]

This one video is worth a level up on Patreon.

[@reggiebald2830]

I don't know; this was well beyond this simpleton's ability to comprehend all the intrigues. Still, you improved my understanding ~ THANKS!

[@NickoSwimmer]

Loved the video! Learned a lot about the intricacies of exotic AL alloys. I wonder how many legacy auto companies get to leverage aerospace horsepower in their material designs 🤔 You rock as always Jordan!

[@thelimitingfactor]

Such a huge topic! It's nuts. I had to cut this video down to keep it manageable.

[@donjones4719]

Saab did in the 1960s. Then it was primarily an aerospace company producing jet fighters. They were the first to make a turbo a common feature on a family sedan. Also did the metal forming on the body in a different manner, using their aerospace knowledge, IIRC.

[@chrisstavro4698]

Love your content. High pressure casting is a key component to the new material. When molten aluminum cools slowly it creates large grains. The smaller the grains, the stronger the material. When alloy cools in 120 ms, it creates very small grains. This improves the material properties and makes it very consistent throughout the part. As Munro says, there are no internal stresses to make the part warp.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Amen! I probably could have highlighted that more

[@RyanGaroogian]

Awesome video I am definitely interested to understand how the different materials could even further improve this patent application from Tesla.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Hey man! The only other exotic material they added was strontium, which had a similar effect to Vanadium. However, what they also found was that by using specific ratios of elements they could create new crystal structures that had desireable effects. We'll see how this video does :D

[@coolcarlgaming2005]

It's my 21st birthday today and I'm so glad you made a new video for us!

[@thelimitingfactor]

😂

[@jamesengland7461]

Can we just pause for a moment to contemplate the dizzying array of possibilities given to us in the Creation of the basic elements of matter?

[@timypp2894]

Another very informative video. Bravo. I like that, flow meter test. Its concept is simple as what it is. I now appreciate how much Tesla had gone into what I thought about diecast. Imagine ford, GM or VW employing others like Charles kuehmann "just to make diecast alloy". No it won't happen and one can see where and why Tesla is going, faster, better and stronger. And maybe the time when a one piece diecast Tesla car Or several pieces will arrive.

[@islammohamed1441]

I look forward to your next video: "A Glitch In The Matrix: How alloys and impurities modify the physical properties of pure crystalline metal"

[@thelimitingfactor]

SICK title!

[@Martin-se3ij]

It would be interesting to see how they design and make the dies for these castings.

[@alanmay7929]

Lol.... its not rocket science, making a die is not that complex.

[@TheEvilmooseofdoom]

@@alanmay7929 It's a lot more complex than you pretend.

[@tavi_chocochip]

@@alanmay7929 It's not rocket science, but it is high-precision engineering. It can be quite interesting for a non-specialist.

[@davidharris7249]

Great video, as always.

[@thelimitingfactor]

🤜🤛🤠

[@rustygear447]

Amazing! Thank you, Jordan. This is one of the many reasons Tesla is not just a car company.

[@alanmay7929]

Yeah as if Hyundai was just a car company right!? Lol.... Hyundai created sk-hynix, they have one of the world's largest shipyards, they have foundries, heavy equipment production......

[@zukacs]

Tesla might have something good, but if there are so many possibilities of alloys, there must be a whole bunch of combinations which work for gigacastings no? For sure more then 1

[@thelimitingfactor]

That's why there are 'recipes'. The ranges that the effects occur in are bounded by ranges, not specific amounts.

[@richardrigling4906]

One additional problem with heat treating after casting is that 5he heat treatment induces warping and distortion in the part. For that matter stability after the part is pulled from the tool is also critical as this reduces athe mount of post-cast machining.

[@HotelPapa100]

9:27 You don't want to use ductility to absorb normal suspension forces. Ductile deformation is permanent, beyond yield strength. That's not the regime of materials properties you want to experience in normal use. The energy absorption properties of ductile materials come int play in the overstress case. The crash, in other words. Ductile materials absorb energy, and avoid damaging other components wit jagged debris.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Good point!

[@GroovyVideo2]

Really well explained - Thanks

[@FutureSystem738]

Great video thanks. It’s absolutely fascinating to hear the design and research work that’s gone into these alloys and casting process. Thank you, great job.

[@sisyphus8571]

This is just awesome. Thank you so much.

[@DT-ob6ce]

Thank you so much! I learn so much from your videos :)

[@JamesMartland65]

Fantastic work Jordan, thanks.

[@clarkelliott5389]

Great technical explanation! Gets into the nitty-gritty. Thanks!

[@youtubefinance9356]

Amazing video! Very insightful, thanks!

[@thomasmuller7988]

First part is good. But you definitely have to compare it to similar alloys and not to an alloy that is not designed for such an application. A380 is used for furnitures, hand tools or 'easy' automotive parts, meaning the specs are not very high, like gearboxes. Then the Tesla alloy is much less impressive, in some regards even worse than existing HPDC alloys. Some commonly used alloys can be found at the alloy suppliers Homepages, like Rheinfelden (Ductile HPDC Aluminium alloys for automotive structural applications) or Alcoa, or even Magna.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Interesting! There for the input

[@thomasbrighton6159]

This was an excellent presentation. Thank you for taking the time to prepare it.

[@mythek]

not sure if ive ever seen any of your other video. but after watching this full video, i had to sub immediately.

[@aurelio-reymilaorcabal9669]

Good to know that Tesla and Spacce X have the best Metelurgical Engineers money can buy. Everyone else is screwed.

[@jasonsmith8929]

A+ chemistry lesson. well done

[@DanielZajic]

That was great!

[@thelimitingfactor]

Glad to hear it! 😊

[@catechisum3824]

' Sure glad alloy was used. I thought of aluminum alloy, but it is not strong enough. This is great.

[@oliverfisher5062]

Excellent video as usual. I do wonder if the temperature/time dimensions are variable in the case of castings? I thought the time/temp here referred to how long the metals spent at high but not molten temperatures, which affected the size/shape of the crystals (i.e during heat treatment, or how fast the part is cooled). In the case of casting the cooling rate I presume would be fast (and not easily modified), and would not linger at specific hot but not molten temperature.

[@tavi_chocochip]

The cooling rate is, in fact, one of the most important (and mostly controllable) parameters of the HPDC process. That TTT diagram for steels that Jordan included is a good example for how the cooling rate affects the resulting structure, including the formation of different secondary phases (that's the part that's different from steels, where the cooling rate decides mainly the matrix phase you end up with; in Al alloys it's the precipitates), the average size of the grains making up the structure (which affects the strength) and the residual stresses in the structure. On top of that, the cooling rate needs to be slow enough to ensure the dies are properly filled and the occurence of voids (which act as weak points) is minimised.

[@oliverfisher5062]

​@@tavi_chocochip Interesting - is the cooling rate controlled by changing the temperate they keep the die? (BTW I also enjoyed reading your "dissertation" comment which is pinned by Jordan).

[@tavi_chocochip]

@@oliverfisher5062 Yes! Die temperature (based on what I’ve read, I’m not an expert on this specific casting method) is one of the most critical parameters in HPDC. They typically do a few runs with castings that then get scrapped/remelted until the machine reaches an optimal steady-state and the die temperature cycle doesn’t vary much between successive runs.

[@eriktempelman2097]

In HP die casting, you actually want fast cooling. Better properties (small grains) and higher productivity .

[@VenturiLife]

Also: "For instance, alloying scandium with aluminium-magnesium alloy increases its yield strength by up to 150% while preserving density and resistance to corrosion. In addition, scandium increases the quality of the alloy's welded joints, avoiding cracking at welds and increasing fatigue life by up to 200%."

[@ThiagoCamposOfficial]

Amazing research, my friend!

[@dansbrown1313]

Hey Jordan, just watched an interview you did with a guy named Sean but I thought I'd make a comment here on your channel. You were talking about 4680 battery materials and where that issue was going. Look into the boring company. No open pit, no miners, no permits required. The boring machines are autonomous, they are silent and can be aimed at areas where the materials they need can be harvested with no damage to above ground activities. Just something for you to contemplate.

[@thelimitingfactor]

The issue is permits, not excavation

[@dansbrown1313]

@@thelimitingfactor Hi, that was my point, at a certain depth below ground, there are no laws or permits required. If Elon bought 40 acres he could then go underground to wherever he wanted.

[@moritz5121]

I am a Materials Engineer with a PhD in aluminum defect understanding. I am also working in the aluminum casting industry for about 9 years now. I am sorry to say, but what Tesla did there is just tailoring an alloy to their specific needs. All the discussed effects of the various elements on the microstructure and properties are well known for decades. The metrics they chose to evaluate the performance of the alloy also just depend on the intended application. The process of tailoring the properties of an alloy to the requirements of a big customer is basically the daily business of many material suppliers in the industry and it is always a compromise of multiple factors like strength, ductility, corrosion, costs, etc. There is no "rocket science" in the Tesla material and every expert in the field will be able to confirm this. This does not mean that they were not able to find an alloy that fits their needs very nicely, maybe also cost efficiently, but it is hardly worth a patent (although I am NOT a patent lawyer and for an engineer like me strange things sometimes happen in this field of profession).

[@thelimitingfactor]

Unfortunately no one, including yourself, actually thought to do gigacasting earlier and to tailor an alloy for that purpose. I hear so many PhD level people say that anyone can do what Tesla does. All I hear is sour grapes.

[@moritz5121]

@@thelimitingfactor Oh, don’t misunderstand me. I think the movement Tesla started by pushing through the resistance in the industry is actually quite exiting. I am also sure that there will be applications for “Gigacastings” and time will tell were this approach is superior to the existing ones. Also forgot to congratulate you on the nice breakdown of key elements of alloy design in my previous post. 👍

[@thelimitingfactor]

Thanks! I appreciate that. A bit of background that might help the tone of the video make sense: A number of people have said that making a new alloy is easy. That is, it's known what each element does, and so all you have to do is type the end characteristics into a computer and voila, a new alloy that does exactly what you want it to. Maybe a 10 minute job. I didn't claim that the effect on the microstructures were new discoveries: As I said in the video, I was relaying my findings. Most of that wasn't from the patent. The patent did claim some discoveries, but I left that out for the most part because I had no way to verify whether they were novel. NOTE: Most of these I left out of the video because they didn't make it to the production alloy. That is, before you judge the patent alloy by my video, read the patent. The reason why I brought up Charles' experience and the link to SpaceX was to 1) Show they attract the best talent and 2) To use it as a springboard to show the materials development process. I'd also argue that it depends on what your definition of rocket science is. I think you're taking your PhD and knowledge for granted. Overall, the point of these videos is to take a development people are excited about and use that as a lever to educate.

[@cabanford]

Fantastic video. Thanks!

[@TKLoh181]

Thank you very much for this video, very informative, professional and concise, excellent work!!!!

[@oasiasoasiaso]

That was very interesting. Thank you for your work and for uploading this.

[@broenmail]

Super well done :)

[@tlz8884]

Super well done video ! ✨

[@freundron]

Excellent engineering level summary, crystal clear and well presented. Congratulations!

[@benjaminheindl1069]

Awesome work! So much info to digest 🤓👍 Btw I really like your video production style (presentation of information, animations, intro music). Imo the transitions between chapters could use some cool tunes too. Looking forward to the next video 😁✌

[@my2cents395]

My concern was having dissimilar metals. Now I hear Tesla might cast doors and body panels. That would make the entire body Aluminum Alloy. This whole body could be anodized for color instead of painting. The life of the car might be as follows 200 mile range X 10,000 LFP battery cycles = a life of the car of 2 million miles. That is 5-10X today's cars. Even when the car is recycled it would still be worth more than a steel car.

[@josephvanorden3782]

Professional and well done!!

[@squarewheels2491]

I would appreciate it if you could put links to the outside information source mentioned, like Billy Wu's KZbin channel, in the description. Looking up the patent applications can be difficult if you haven't done it before.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Done

[@squarewheels2491]

@@thelimitingfactor Thank You!

[@johnmolloy4878]

@20:20 the term you are looking for is "acicular phase". These tend to be crack starters. Nice catch on the vanadium too. Anyway, I believe you are now an honorary metallurgist.

[@thelimitingfactor]

Oh cool! They called it globular in the patent, but acicular certainly sounds more apt!

[@tavi_chocochip]

@@thelimitingfactor John is referring to the morphologies in Fig. 9A; "acicular" means needle-like, although those precipitates are in fact plate-like (which do look needle-like in cross-section when seen along the basal plane). The effect is similar, though: an incoherent precipitate (meaning, its atomic structure doesn't correlate at all with that of the Al matrix, so it forms weak bonds with it) acts very similar to a void with the same shape. Sharp features like that cause cracks to be initiated bc the local stresses are much higher than average and can be larger than the strength (or UTS) of the material. I can see why you would think of them as "levers", but it is in fact those sharp tips/edges that are the problem. You are indirectly right in that precipitates with v. high aspect ratios like that can, in fact, break under stress, creating even more sharp interfaces, microvoids, and therefore stress concentration spots. In contrast, "globular" which means round-shaped (as in "globe") create much lower localised stresses and are less likely to break.

[@phatterism]

well done. very valuable video.

[@drj9506]

Amazing research again, thanks so much! Look forward to these gems everyday.

[@klantic2]

What an amazing presentation. Thanks for your hard work and information here. I've learned a lot.

[@johnthomas5806]

Science above my head but thanks to you I can get a slight grasp of what is happening..

[@rimckd825]

Thank You Colossally.

[@benogunkua343]

Beautiful presentation and highly enlightening

[@daverobert7927]

Another great video Jordan. mmmmmmmmm What is the time when the cast fails. >20 years? >30 years?... Yes but the Battery gets replaced in +10 years. Motor in about +40 years. Oh I will be 90 in 40 years all good...

[@proteslapower6754]

That was well explained thank you for your educational video.

[@AndyZach]

Fantastic content! Keep it up!

[@danapeck5382]

New subscriber, really appreciate the content. Here's hoping the materials science team gets involved with superconductivity applications for Dojo.