TF2: Post

[@ZestyJesus]

Because many are asking: I have yet to see any definitive evidence that...whatever Valve did....affected idle bots in any way. There has been a significant spike in server activity, meaning more humans are now returning to the game, but I would not trust Steam's player counts right now. Based on my previous work, I strongly doubt that the player count has MORE than doubled as a result of this. Is it more idlers? Some humans? Unsure as of right now, still working on that, and will have more definitive answers in Part 3 of my series on bots. Edit: yes, fempyro

[@pitivan3895]

@@ZestyJesus the idle bot hosters feeling that this might be the end, throwing all their bots in maximum overdrive to make the last bit of money left before getting banned ?

[@D-S-G.]

My guess is that the current growth is either mostly or at minimum 50% real players. While people returning due to the bots leaving is a possibility, idlers could be adding more bots to attempt to steal any secret Saxton/gift a pults during this time of cheer.

[@iql-]

I can’t watch your videos anymore because you don’t sound zesty

[@david-gabrielpop5344]

Idle bots are hardest to touch because you cannot take everyone into account and can negatively impact an idle-ing service. This is why those might be almost impossible to ban and may never will. Now to address one thing from the video: probable reason. Money is not the only reason they responded after all. It's a PR nightmare if they wake up with as you said 'the first game to include cosmetics for micro-transactions' to be killed instantly or not cared for. Whether they like it or not they have to allocate resources to TF2 in order to sustain their credibility. This in a sense is why they should now focus on CS2 for the time being as it is a big problem for that community too! Enjoy this long comment. Life is lovely btw, live it

[@tombeetroot_A.S.P.]

Zesty how did you get the Femme pyro mod to work in casual?

[@CrasherX2000]

While celebrations are in order, Valve not only needs to keep this ball rolling, but also continuously held responsible for keeping the bots out

[@darthgamer9861]

exactly this. I am hoping this is a turning point and people stop going to bat for Valve every time someone delivers basic criticisms to them.

[@f1ux889]

Not only TF2 but Steam as a whole.

[@commanderboom2626]

Valve needs to keep the ball rolling or we ought to steam roll their balls

[@mariustan9275]

I feel like we won't have to be worried about the ball stopping from rolling. I hear this from tons of tf2 players in comments like these. They are all in the "cautiously optimistic" side where yes it's nice th bots are gone but we gotta be careful.

[@ussul6524]

I am not celebrating yet. After all the years I am well reserved pessimist in valve work.

[@joltik2]

"Wave defeated Get to an Upgrade Station and prepare for the next wave."

[@professionalrose6830]

I would like but funni number

[@ColonelKlink1965]

I've seen this joke at least 6 times last week.

[@alface935]

​@@ColonelKlink1965 Start getting 1 Coin for everytime You see this joke so You can became Rich and maybe be able to buy a house inside the U.S.A Just maybe :(

[@Aprocrisin]

overrused joke

[@irupana2ify]

ok redditor

[@jakestaheli8532]

The cheaters have been privating their accounts to avoid steam bans. They do know that valve owns steam, right?

[@tiagocf1208]

People are hunting the accounts to mannually report them. Vale owns steam, but its not omniscient

[@franco1072]

They're hiding from People, not Valve

[@jakestaheli8532]

@tiagocf1208 you can still easily find and report any private account though.

[@jiraffy_]

​@@tiagocf1208 He refers to the fact that employees can see profile info even if privated by the user

[@literallycherry]

some of them get community banned which forces it private

[@aspen9102]

Tbh, if the 'fast' response was solely to FixTF, it would be somehow even worse, would mean that they had the gun loaded and all cards on the table and decided to turn a blind eye until the animal started screaming

[@meat.]

I’ve thought about this before

[@CheeseChurger]

I genuinely believe they started working on a solution to the bot problem but ended up putting it on the indefinite backburner until fixtf2, when they realized that they really couldn't just shut up the tf2 playerbase with wacky gamemodes and new cases full of community shit that they never even made.

[@TryTane]

It doesn't make sense since with savetf2 they took ~4 weeks to respond. Meaning that they could've fix it 2 years ago. Probably at this time they thought:"maybe we should do something?"

[@solarflare9078]

megascatterbomb uploaded a video regarding this topic in We’re Ending the Bot Crisis 2 tl;dw: It’s something they had to develop for a long while, some speculating from all the way back in 2021.

[@Nyles_FS]

14:46 That demo shield charging, missing the exit route, realizing, emoting right after and dying not a second later has just unlocked my long repressed childhood memories

[@Mate_Antal_Zoltan]

I can practically hear the "HOOOH- **death*"*

[@tsunderemerc2963]

I never get how hard it is for people to just....not spend money. Dont buy hats, dont buy keys, dont buy MvM tickets, just stop spending money. Stop gambling, no matter how small the impact may seem to you.

[@Helperbot-2000]

yeah seriously, if theyre unable to then theyre just proving theyre addicted and ESPPECIALLY need to stop

[@Wert-eo7sz]

It’s a tale as old as time. People demand change, but they themselves don’t want to change. People complain about shitty games but still go out and buy them every year anyway.

[@markhirsch6301]

This doesn't actually revolve around money for me, but it does involve gambling. I was a huge overwatch player for the longest time, but I quit because at some point I stopped playing to play the game, or even be a comp player, but rather to open up loot boxes to get the skins. When I realized that I had to force myself to stop playing the game, which was hard to do since there was still enjoyment in it for me

[@crabbycat302]

Gambling is mental illness, people who become gambling addicts are victims of the machines created and designed to trap them. A person who has become a gambling addict at certain point no longer gambles for the money but for the motion of gambling itself. We label these people as whales, but they are victims of the people who profit from them. Highly recommend watching this video if you want to learn more: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIKseaShqsmahLs

[@Helperbot-2000]

is that when you decided to conquer 86 tribes?

[@thedogatemyname9982]

Chinese sweatshops dedicated entirely to monitoring tf2 cheaters

[@crossbo5345]

o7 Thank you for your service

[@felipequaresma4215]

that moment when the Peoples Republic of China Saves tf2

[@zeldies1976]

A warehouse full of homeless people who manually ban steam accounts

[@CopeAndSeeth]

+100 social credit

[@Micecheese]

Secret Valvitary sweatfortresses are the true anti cheat.

[@Brown95P]

TLDR: don't give in to the shiny keys this summer until we're certain Valve is here to stay on the treadmill.

[@thatguythere6161]

But how will we know this? What will be the thing that shows they will stay on the treadmill?

[@HD-vu5vv]

​@@thatguythere6161valve being on a treadmill

[@fumothfan9]

Sadly Itll be like keyless crates in halloween

[@Brown95P]

​@@thatguythere6161 A long-standing and committed effort to upkeeping the game; simple as that.

[@TheTundraTerror]

You do realise that the talk when John McDonald said that line, he also said they Valve does do treadmill work and that it's important work but that the issue is cheaters constantly evolve and you're in a constant arms race with them, right?

[@madmanmax120]

Tbh, I kinda hope in a sadistic way that Deadlock gets filled with bots from day 1. It'd be a huge blow to Valve's ego, and signal that they need to fix ALL their games.

[@crem44]

Yeah Deadlock is sorta like a double edged sword, assuming the bots arent fixed by the time it releases; if it has counter measures for the bots and tf2 doesnt, what the fuck? If it doesnt then everyone will laugh at them

[@SrMadru]

​@@crem44tf2 both is on source 1 and had a shitty linux vac version that allows botting, theres many reasons why botting may not exist but as zesty said, it already has cheaters before it got even released, let alone announced

[@Vaniity_Velvet]

@@SrMadru It's on Source 1, Has a shitty port, Implemented numerous mechanics that make botting easier (Party Q) Is largely dead from both a development and player-base perspective and the only defense the game has is VACC, an Anti-Cheat that hasn't been updated in over a decade and doesn't even have a true project lead in charge of it anymore.

[@mantha6912]

Better yet, hope nobody buys the game. Boycott it, abstain from purchasing, whatever it needs to be called- don't buy games that make the player into the product.

[@Zillarax]

Or they'll just walk away from it like they did Artifact and Underlords.

[@TheTSense]

The guy doing no work and not showing up at the office for weeks at a time actually "did work" today. Good news? Yes Time for a promotion? No

[@Dedmos2322]

good one

[@stronensycharte64]

It feels so fucking refreshing to be able to join casual and play for hours again without having to reque. Had a blast last night man. So fucking good.

[@Frish__]

Most fun I’ve had in ages

[@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750]

Enjoy it while it lasts, it wont be like that forever.

[@WeakestHater]

I just had a great match kritz gambling with a god tier random heavy, no bots and infinite fun

[@Vaniity_Velvet]

Enjoy it while you can, the bots are already back in European Servers.

[@Vaniity_Velvet]

@@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750 they're already back in Europue.

[@breathmints]

I find it rather ironic that everyone compares #fixtf2 to the wow classic drama as a positive example of players getting what they want. since wow classic has funnily enough, become a bot infested shitfest itself ruined by blizzard and only exists to milk wow tokens.

[@genv02]

That's because there's little to no blizzard fans left to boycott modern wow classic. Side note: funny oxymoron.

[@TryTane]

back then WoW was blizzard's main revenue. Now they have other successful games, plus they have Activision.

[@Alexco7999]

How was this man labeled as controversial a while back? Literally every thought laid here comes fundamentally from critical and logical thinking.

[@StrikerEStrikerovich]

actual fact.

[@zebug4762]

Apparently Zesty made a comment that was taken out of context by people, and unfortunately, it got enough traction to earn him a poor reputation in some circles. I may be mistaken, but the N-word may have been part of that comment, which was why it caught attention from lots of people to begin with.

[@dsvd4727]

It's just mentally ill people going by the slur I probably can't type, so just imagine I did because on any other platform that doesn't automatically deletes comments I definitely would

[@nikkehtine]

People don't like critical and logical thinking, they'd rather hold on to status quo than do something radical for once.,

[@fathorse8]

He said "tranny" once and people dont like that he thinks TF2 should be a 100% casual game. They also dont like that he criticises workshop creators

[@engineergaming5002]

A War Thunder player here, we recently had a similar issue with Gaijin and I have to say, you hit it on the head. The community has been publishing content and making a storm on social media for years now, but it was only when people stopped playing and buying stuff from Gaijin that they backed off and made an effort to to fix the game. I would bet if the TF2 community does this same thing and stops buying stuff for the game it would provoke change.

[@ink-T]

Tf2 players when they are told to not waste money to fix their favorite game: 😟😭

[@panthekirb7561]

A true boycot would include people not playing the game at all and moving on to something else but these addicts can't do that..

[@iizepic9788]

​@@panthekirb7561 that's stupid, the servers take money to run, people playing on the servers, but not giving valve a dime, increases their net loss

[@theclown2257]

But...there's still plenty of people that are not willing to spend money on the game yet

[@panthekirb7561]

@@iizepic9788 Its a gain for the playerbase though

[@VortexF]

"But how am i going to feed my gambling addiction now?"

[@jetteriter4351]

Y’all just remember that FixTF2 isn’t over until we get a permanent solution

[@lebollsong]

Yeah, we're not gonna repeat the cycle again now, hope the tf2 community is smart enough to understand

[@Helperbot-2000]

right, a permanent solution, which is what exactly?

[@jockin]

@@Helperbot-2000 hmm, maybe keeping the cheating bots out of the game? (oh no, treadmill work)

[@Helperbot-2000]

@@jockin learn to read please, i asked what the solution was, not the end goal that solution is supposed to fix. oh no, you dont understand what they mean when they say treadmill work, what a fucking surrise

[@lebollsong]

@@Helperbot-2000 proper anti-cheat? Valve actually maintaining the game regularly so that this bot crisis doesn't spiral up again?

[@SaiIorChips]

It feels like we did almost everything right this time. Besides the stupid ass opposition to boycotting, we've done a lot right in pushing for change, and it's more on Valve now than ever to address the issue.

[@Birds_In_Crime]

That's the thing, it just "feels" like it. We didn't accomplish much

[@CleetusGlobin]

No long-term fix plans have been announced. That's what we want.

[@cubirk]

I has always been on valve

[@bensadfleck9972]

Weezy was against the idea of a monetary boycott until yesterday. The biggest mistake of this shit was giving the movement face leaders instead of just hurting valve where it really matters. Like titanfall 2 or apex didnt need people or ecelebs to back it up

[@wolfy2469]

​@@bensadfleck9972Titanfall fans aleady had a workaround of their own for the game, and the devs responded once the Titanfall problem bled over to Apex.

[@megafan1137]

I'm genuinely stunned people really think that calling a boycott is "too hard". Like, how? How is it hard to just. Not spend money?

[@VoxAstra-qk4jz]

Lets go gambling!

[@queuedjar4578]

I've spent 0$ on TF2 in the 10 years that I've played the game.

[@vectorsahel5420]

it's called a gambling addiction

[@Adriethyl]

People don't like giving up the things they enjoy.

[@vinnyandlin8510]

An addiction to spending money

[@o-dreng8778]

I love the way he says: "stop buying the *fucking* keys"

[@Thomas_Angelo]

0:33 Damn, Can't believe Tf2 made more than "8 dollars" in a year for valve.

[@aviowl]

It could be, maybe possibly even nine dollars

[@SoyGacho]

this might be a far stretch, but it could even be ten dollars

[@Cbp846]

Maybe 10 if we’re getting crazy

[@Thomas_Angelo]

@@SoyGacho Not that far of a stretch compared to what the conspiracies are saying about the whopping 11th dollar TF2 made for valve...

[@HeydenHarvey]

it was obviously a typo, the lowest amount they could've made was probably eleventeen dollars at the minimum, but thats just a guess

[@farkrits]

You obviously won't say this but I honestly believe you, yourself, had a lot of impact in the new attitude that we see coming from the TF2 "community". It took someone with a decent following to keep it real and tell the toxic positivity bullshit to fuck off in order for a decent part of us to finally understand that shit like that wasn't getting us anywhere.

[@springfaux6991]

I mean they were the one who cut us off from the copium of the twitter post and made us aware tf2 was dying

[@uwaaahhhhhh]

The toxic positivity is still there mind you, kinda prevalent on twitter and, ughhh... Reddit. But otherwise it's been getting better. I mean, around winter update last time, a workshop creator tried to falsely accuse Zesty of being a pdf file, (because Zesty at some point played a gacha game) I confronted the bozo in dm's and he basically said that he does not even truly believe what he says and thinks it's "funny". Funny to accuse a real human being with a following of people who might be stupid enough to believe you that their favorite creator is a pdf file. Whoever was the person that had a quote that went like: "People are getting too comfortable with shitting on others and not getting punched for it" was a prophet, because this anonymity shit only keeps getting worse

[@user-bkey]

im glad zesty isnt taking credit for anything because the reason savetf2 and fixtf2 are a mess is because of the focus on youtubers and that would still end up the case if he decided to become leader or something

[@tranquil3727]

I don't understand the mindset that the first fixtf2 movement didn't work. It got a response out of Valve and a huge number of changes that greatly helped the bot issue. It didnt FIX the game, but it enacted Valve to do something. Once again, the community made a big movement and once again Valve did something. We just have to wait and see if they'll continue to work on preventative measures. Why is everyone acting like this was a complete and total failure? Why is everyone acting like its our fault for not "protesting correctly" and harboring "false positivity?" The only thing this video is doing is fueling community infighting. Sure, boycotting will help push the message that we want change, but I think already pretty fucking clear to Valve that we want change. TL;DR, "False positivity" isn't the problem. Its the bots that are the problem. We don't need to turn on eachother.

[@GHProductionss]

​@tranquil3727 It enacted valve to pull a PR move and slap a bandaid, ban a couple cheaters, and continue the status quo because "big wholesome Volvo cares, guys! They want TF2 fixed as much as we do, just gotta be wholesome 100 chungus uwu". The reason the old SaveTF2 didn't work was because we (until the recent ban waves) were STILL suffering the same issues that we have been since Jungle Inferno dropped (really even before Jungle Inferno, valve servers had spinbots from day one of Meet your Match)

[@pitivan3895]

The gambling addicts aren't going to stop buying 😢

[@theclown2257]

Plenty of people already have. Obviously it's not everyone but no shit it's not everyone. People are still not spending money on the game, myself included

[@seronymus]

The whales are the problem pray for them

[@randomtexanguy9563]

the movement was started by an mvm gambling addict who never brought up boycotting so he could keep gambling

[@dumbvillage9253]

Doesnt mean you stop yourself. The smallest profit at the wrong time can make all the difference

[@moonlighttf2]

**COUGH** **COUGH** wheezy...

[@grfrjiglstan]

Why are people still buying keys at all? Scream Fortress absolutely loads you down with cosmetics if you do the contracts.

[@dud324]

Fair point.

[@TryTane]

for cosmetics without halloween restriction and cosmetics that doesn't scream "halloween" nor "Christmas"

[@PolarGuy]

You simply can't trade/sell Scream Fortress cosmetics if you get them through contracts

[@tylersimmons7105]

Those cosmetics are almost always restricted to full moons and Halloween only

[@eltiolavara9]

adding to what people said, not everyone wants to do 100 contracts, even i last year just kinda did a few cause i didn't want to

[@fireflywhy3809]

This video is like "When a man who understands business tells everybody exactly how to act in the most effective way like it's common sense or at least it should be yet somehow it's not."

[@Dedmos2322]

well i mean he is still correct its just we were clueless.

[@mocksuxker69]

valve employees, when they need to wipe their ass (it's treadmill work):

[@glitchman1272]

oh shit hi chara

[@Sorrelhas]

Valve employees when William Edward Staub presents them with his latest invention in 1968

[@Eye_Of_Odin978]

All employees at Valve found passed away after one of them discovered Breathing was 'Treadmill Work' "Why should I breathe if, in a few seconds, I will just have to do that again?" -Valve Employee

[@MrIrdatlan]

I'd wipe my ass on a treadmill, like a sanding machine

[@Festivex1]

wipe their bussies

[@SDT493]

I'll be honest. This fixtf2 movement kind of died down. Sure valve banned a couple thousand bots but it just isn't enough. This will most likely go no where and I just hope that the youtubers that said they were going to print out all of the petitions and hand them to valve in person are going to do that and not bluff.

[@dagda1180]

Valve does need more toilet paper, sure.

[@fders938]

That printed petition will just be more trash for the custodians to throw away lmao

[@DesolateLavender]

We might as well try.

[@guestc142]

They're gonna try every single method except not playing the game at all

[@tranquil3727]

This was always going to be the reality of the situation though. No matter how hard we protest, we cant really force valve into "working harder." All we can do is make our voices heard and hope Valve is able to find a solution. I don't really think its a matter of us not protesting loud enough or hard enough yknow?

[@imperialnypiwosz3185]

Toxic positivity ruined tf2 as much as the bots.

[@raven75257]

Story as old as time. Happens to every good game (except for bot part, obviously)

[@afro4059]

happened to minecraft

[@c0smic959]

Ah yes, when saying anything remotely negative and critiquing the game is "doom posting", I don't understand why these people defend Valve with their lifes like they're getting paid for it

[@licemere9899]

What happened to minecraft? Toxic positivity? But half of community is always talking about mojang's fails... ​@@afro4059

[@imperialnypiwosz3185]

@@c0smic959 They defend Multimillion Dollar Company which can't do basic things more fiercely than their loved ones lol

[@danielszilagyi9112]

"I don't like Zesty because he gets angry, waaaa, I don't like his negativity and pessimism!" Bitch, that's what I FUCKING LOVE after a long day of just existing in this fucking life. Finally someone who has the balls to be rightfully frustrated instead of glazing someone's balls, despite some people continuesly bitching about how he is "a big meany". Fuck, I needed this load of Zesty in me!

[@supernovanetworkYT]

Yeah, you had me till that last bit

[@jezrielbaquir3237]

ayo pause

[@danielszilagyi9112]

@@jezrielbaquir3237 "Big load of Zesty in me" :)

[@manshoe1738]

on an unrelated note the demoman giving up at 14:48 is the funniest thing i've seen all day

[@thelittlesagg2]

for real i've been laughing at that for about 10 minutes now lmao

[@RibbCage]

I love doing that lmao, everytime I know I’m not making it out alive I gotta hit one last taunt

[@theabsolutetrashman3708]

4:57 Holy moly, that caught me off guard lmao Forgot to say it earlier but my guess for the reason rolled the anti-cheat this early, was not only for getting into the community's good graces again for doing their job, but probably due to workslopper pressure. Valve isn't only one with a horse in this race, if bringing attention to workshop items being added to the game is anything to go by, Emporiumsis wouldn't be very enthusiastic about not making bank as they would've prior to your streams, particularly under the threat of a boycott, so pleading to Eric Smith to disinfect a gushing wound be in their best interests to keep leeching off of this game.

[@thepulle4722]

Boobs jumpscare

[@sparky00777]

bro got flashbanged

[@KarmaDude8773]

me too lmao

[@eractum]

I thought I was watching Zesty not Pyrocynical 🤔

[@melsuppatlol4565]

"wiping Valve's ass for them" *showing FemPyro ass*

[@pokeydude]

SaveTF2 was all bark, no bite. Let FixTF2 be all bark and bite, if we want it to work.

[@pootispiker2866]

LOL

[@imaybestupid2045]

What the dog doin

[@orangejuice8279]

More like SaveTF2 was looking at Valve with puppy eyes

[@pootispiker2866]

@@orangejuice8279 as is fixtf2

[@orangejuice8279]

@@pootispiker2866 if SaveTF2 is looking at Valve with puppy eyes, FixTF2 is an extremely drawn out growl

[@viliussmproductions]

>shitty catgirls dancing around >implying TF2 and CS:GO players wouldn't(don't) lap that up

[@TheSuperappelflap]

There is an epidemic of weebs in this scene and nobody is talking about it

[@N-i-L]

The amount of anime girls of questionable age as pfps with male voices in vc is way too damn high.

[@WeeabooPocky]

@@TheSuperappelflap it always have been

[@whothoughthandleswereagoodidea]

bro you dont even have to look outside of this video he's got a booby pyro mod

[@meat.]

@@TheSuperappelflap gamers and weebs go hand in hand that’s how it has always been

[@3chmidt]

Would be ironic if the TF2 community would throw themselfes onto that boycott idea when some psydo famous TF2 KZbinrs (not related to Zesty) calls for it despite being absolute c*nts to normal people that were suggesting that for years. Imagine daring to utter ideas that aren't mainstream on the TF2 subreddit and then getting downvoted to oblivion

[@koalabro6118]

See here's the problem with your complaint... We're normal people. Why do we care about downvotes? Why are we even on Reddit to begin with when the corp that owns reddit is even more corrupt and evil than Valve?

[@3chmidt]

@@koalabro6118 Ironic writing that on KZbin, now innit?

[@fluffystagbeetle4526]

@@koalabro6118 The problem is that there is enough stupid people that buy into it and keep spending money. its not about caring about downvotes but theres actual people that supposedly have brains doing it

[@smhtbh3908]

It's so fucking funny to listen to you, you are so REAL, it's amazing how good arguments you make. It's incredibly real

[@boop004]

the realest

[@pikkuporkkana4736]

I'm actually confused why there hasn't been anything like #fixTF2 in the CS community. As you said, the same thing that happened to TF2 is happening to CS2 too.

[@sorrydudebros]

The CS community is barely a community tbh. I think that's why

[@haiperbus]

​@sorrydudebros True, but not because there isn't comraderie, but because there's so many players that any attempt at an organization would only be done by like 2% of users.

[@MintyMomoi]

bro they dont need to start it since its valve favorite child there has been less cheater and spinbotting

[@thomastheretardedengine7839]

It's too early for that. While the game is in a bad state it's not nearly as bad as tf2's neglect. Give it like 2 or 3 years and we might see something happen.

[@dracoledraconoligist]

iirc I remember seeing a few videos on a potential start to one

[@PauloVitorHMK]

I'll never forgive the tf2 community for gaslighting me into thinking you were a scumbag. Please keep up the good work.

[@darthgamer9861]

they’ll keep trying too, with their “weapon” being “lul hes a biggot!”

[@georgeliquor1236]

Mah heckin transphobia

[@whilemycookiegentlycrumblz]

@@darthgamer9861 as someone who's not up-to-date anymore on the community, why do people accuse him of being a bigot? i've been curious as to why people say he's a bigot for a while now - i dont expect a whole summary, but i'd like to be directed to a specific post or something that can clear things up :D

[@darthgamer9861]

@@whilemycookiegentlycrumblztoo be honest I’m not entirely up to date on the details myself as I tend to only follow people on youtube rather than Twitter.

[@bensadfleck9972]

I have been convinced he was toxic for "attacking" workshop creators. Only to find out it was just fair constructive criticism. He is in his right to express his dislike for certain items

[@achair7958]

Imo valve is currently using tf2 as a guinea pig to test new anticheat systems for later use in CS2 and eventually deadlocked. Also you're spot on that valve shouldn't be thanked or praised for dealing with a problem that should've been dealt with _half a decade_ ago.

[@darthgamer9861]

agreed. if this becomes consistent, only then will I offer a slow clap to Valve because they should have taken care of this when the bots started appearing in 2018.

[@CheeseChurger]

Makes sense, valve has been known to use TF2 as a guinea pig to test new shit before they abandoned it

[@imslightlybetterthanyou8365]

There is no anticheat... its just manual hwid bans by valvvo

[@TryTane]

Damn never thought of that. Also I believe that now we should encourage valve to more and more. Like: "yeah damn that's good, but it's not enough and you can do much better."

[@sansanimzisnotrealanymore]

valve isnt using tf2 for an anti cheat, source 1 is different from source 2 entirely

[@Ahmadabdal_]

13:51 not “released” the games ISNT EVEN ANNOUNCED YET

[@eyzzer9742]

They hated him, because we was telling them the ugly truth right to their face

[@NotSnak]

One thing i can appreicate about zesty is his honesty even if its something people dont wanna hear

[@gungrave10]

​​@@NotSnakHere is the problem. The money that TF2 bring, is probably wasn't even enough to run 1 month of official server. It seems like the tf2 community, is entitled little prick for wanting so much more. Let them celebrate. Why are you so hostile to people who celebrate?

[@ashleysony7943]

​@@NotSnakOne of his only good qualities ngl, for the most part

[@mugiwaradarwin4504]

It's his best quality. I can excuse the cursing and abrasiveness if what he says is for the good of TF2 as a whole. He's like a tough-loving parent. Yeah, you may hate their methods of setting you straight, but it's ultimately for the greater good.

[@ashleysony7943]

@@mugiwaradarwin4504 case to case basis

[@shallmow]

Valve having bots in unreleased game is just crazy 😭

[@titicaca.]

Cheats, not bots

[@sufficient4834]

It's a closed beta

[@metrocop_elite]

@@sufficient4834 alpha*

[@TryTane]

@@sufficient4834 it's closed pre alpha wdym

[@PolandDoge]

0:34 8$ to 15 million $ is a pretty wide range

[@pep4338]

True , still hella money for a game this old

[@Synical02]

That's still good for an older game

[@LatiosGigetto]

You all didn't get the joke, I believe

[@Thomas_Angelo]

@@LatiosGigetto 8 dollars. and don't forget the quarter!

[@-RandomStranger-]

​@@Thomas_Angelo you sir are a fish

[@superjesse645]

I won't be surprised if the bots return, so I still insist on boycotting future updates.

[@Gh0stWh33l]

"You don't ban immediately. You catch it, track the accounts, and you do mass bannings in waves. Don't give them time to adapt." -PirateSoftware, Paraphrased

[@tiaisirradiated]

Telling TF2 players to financially boycott TF2 is the same as telling a gambler to stop gambling, because that's what the TF2 crates are - people are addicted. That's not to say that this shouldn't happen; it absolutely should. People should stop giving TF2 money if it's being neglected; I just think that the fact people are addicted is why Valve never needed to do anything about it in the first place; otherwise, people would've naturally just stopped paying them money regardless of any movements like #FIXTF2.

[@Dedmos2322]

to be honest i see more csgo players being addicted to crates than tf2 players, it might be me but i think its true that the large percantage of income comes from the trade bots.

[@MrEdioss]

You were always right, truth is just too bitter.

[@dominikcz198]

4:57 fempyro

[@gabs5552]

AY YOO

[@TheDoomSlayerButPettingaCat]

Pyrocynical back at it again

[@PinkIceCreamTruck]

did you see the cut off prevention in the last seconds

[@vivious_]

@@PinkIceCreamTruck every youtuber does that when they die

[@luk4323]

Boobas

[@FabledEnigma]

Glad you mentioned the Weezy video, a lot of his points felt off, and the fact he straight up said "Trying to boycott tf2 financially wouldnt work so dont do that" Like, ??? That is the only way to boycott a game, companies dont care what people say on twitter if it dosnt effect their revenue

[@boop004]

ostracizing does help though, especially when you can see Valve's bad consumer treatment across their other games - it is not a habit you should want to see. I agree it is not the main point of a boycott.

[@dudeneon924]

People be like: "wow thank you valve for wiping your a**" Me: "did you wash your hands too" Valve:

[@luigi64fan]

Valve must be thinking to themselves after "fixing" the game: "Greed is good. Have a bonus." This is literally the equivalent of them hosting an MvM server, constantly failing the first wave, then skipping to wave 3. There is no way the problem is fixed for good, not yet.

[@titicaca.]

Return to the upgrade station before they return.

[@Pygargue00fr]

"Why not boycott?" He says "Because we have everything to win, and Valve has everything to loose" I say. No more keys, no more hats, the new inclusions are ugly anyways...

[@Helperbot-2000]

valve has nothin to lose from it lol, WE have everything to lose, tf2 makes a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction as much as anything else they own, and at worst they could just shut down all support for the game. it doesnt incentivice them to do anything

[@JagEterCoola]

@@Helperbot-2000 Friend, millions upon millions of dollars is STILL millions upon millions, even if it may be less than billions. Don't lose the forest for the trees; Yes, Valve rakes in literally 13 billion USD anually. Yes, TF2 rakes in literally 0.1% of that at most. But at the end of the day, $8-15million is still $8-15 million.

[@knucklejoe08]

The amount of money isn't the point. Even if it's just a drop in the bucket, the more people that stop giving Valve money for a service that barely works, the better. Yes, we've seen fixes recently, but don't let the bare minimum placate you.

[@vyor8837]

​@@JagEterCoola ... Millions? Since when is it millions?

[@TheSuperappelflap]

@@Helperbot-2000 They cant shut down support for the game. It has community servers. If Valve try to shut it down, worst they can do is shut down casual and take down the master server (through which your computer downloads the list of community servers). Then someone will put up a new one that Valve doesnt control. People have done that for far less popular games once the publisher shut down the servers. And if they take the game off Steam, well, there are other ways to procure software on the internet...

[@the_something_something]

VALVe when they realize fixing the bot problem raises the income gained by TF2:

[@CriticalHiitz]

thank you for putting your hat in the ring bro, frankly if you think about it; most companies find loop holes that will generate them money when they can prevent. Also some insider workers themselves may tap in for money exploits before fixing things. Its a corrupted planet but with people who have more passion and dignity we can shed light and see where the shadows are. I truly loved the game but as other companies, if we don't unite and seal our wallets to boycott then they won't change.

[@skitariii66]

he got fempyro installed

[@5ninthavenue]

W

[@franco1072]

My fuarking hero

[@Smojo10]

A WOMAN?

[@Coriander1988]

As a gentleman would

[@Salithin]

erm what the based

[@sooperdude22]

The battle is won, but the war is far from over. The Bots may have been beaten back, but they'll return, and people need to be ready

[@Gofaw]

Shut up

[@StickySituation1000]

New Mode:Players Vs BOTS

[@Halvos12]

Zesty was doom pilled and I don't blame him, I was too.

[@DACITYOFDAHOOD]

5 years of neglect tends to do that

[@FilthTea]

Unfortunately, I just don’t think Valve is going to do much more than this. There just isn’t a big enough player base for them to justify putting in more work than what they’re doing now. I also don’t think the $8-$15 million estimate for earnings is super realistic, as i just can’t see that out of the estimated 20kish players on the game enough of them are buying/selling keys on the market. To expound on this, say that Valve makes $5 per person per week that’s active on TF2. Even with 30,000 people that’s less than $8 million. Unless there’s something more, I just can’t see where Valve would be able to make the financial justification to continue to support TF2

[@GnomeusChompski]

it´s sad but true. Multi billion companies care only money. Every single penny. To deny them even a small part of their money speaks volumes. I do believe as you have said it´s not a question of if but when the bots will come. Guess we will see.

[@BeefVellington]

lmao it's like shounic didn't even watch your video. I think he knows about the Tuesday maintenance but he just wanted to be the first one to report on the bans which coincidentally started happening around the same time

[@dragonman7856]

Is this the power of treadmill work?

[@ChillyChief612]

HEY, ZESTY LEAVE THE BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY ALONE!! >:( I SIT WITH VALVE AT THE LUNCHTABLE AND IF YOU CONTINUE THIS BEHAVIOR WERE NOT TRADING LUNCHABLES WITH YOU ANYMORE. CONSIDER THIS YOUR FIRST STRICK MISTER. >;(

[@LittleBigBwner]

4:56 👀 aWOOOOOOOga - I literally had to rewind cuz I was like, "wtf was that?!" 😂

[@HughJanus-x4n]

You are absolutely right We shouldn't be saying "thank you Valve" we should be saying "finally Valve". Whenever this 1st started I watched a video and it was talking about what we should do They mentioned to not spend any money on the game, i will follow this mindset to the end of the world, And when they do come back we will be prepared. The only money I ever spent was 5 bucks to my steam account and $2.50 to get premium I may spend money from time to time to Make my playable characters look cool But as long as we're doing this protest I will not spend a dime. Thank you to you and the other creators for pushing this protest to its Sort of successful Message.Thank you!

[@ten-finger]

The whole "Valve will just shut down TF2 if it stops making money" also doesn't make much sense from a general PR perspective; it would look really bad on Valve's part if they just up and shut down one of the most iconic and influential multiplayer games of all time, just because it stopped being profitable...

[@Paquito5]

bruhh I really don't get why some people in this community are so hesitant to simply stop purchasing loot boxes n shit. If you're really that addicted to gambling you are better off just going to an actual casino with some friends and drinks and actually have a good time

[@owenness6146]

Summer Update is just a sale on other games. Boycott keys, don't play Deadlock, etc. Look at what happened with Payday 3 - flopping hard & giving the finger to their players - & now their players all went back to Payday 2 or a few clone games.

[@greedsin555]

Dam one of the only realistic prospective I have ever heard on the #fixTF2 situation

[@IndieLambda]

While I'm happy to play TF2 again, I far Valve only is doing this to generate good will so people will feed the gacha even harder then completely abandon the game again once they feel the summer update died down, and we'll then bee flooded again for years. Enjoy this while it lasts, we're returning to the satusquo as soon as the upcomming heatwave is gone.

[@grandwizardautismo]

Valve is playing 4D chess with the bot fix. They really don’t want a boycott of TF2. They knew it would be better in the long run for them to throw some work at TF2 than rock the boat on any micro economy. They’re good.

[@M30W3R]

The big problem with the movement is that it was organized by people whose career revolves around the game's continued existence... Had it been more "anonymously pushed", chances are that a commercial boycott could have been on the table from day one.

[@verminlordsoulberry8823]

Finally someone who's smart to say the truth instead of opinions that a company is great for finally acknowledging their child they left untill they were 18. Also thank you for not being a broken record like some other "ytber" I know. It's so relaxing to hear the truth for once.

[@carefulman3673]

Your comment said so much, and so little at the same time

[@mohamadparadox2453]

this whole thing was (or probably is) a learning experience, it taught us that companies are not our friend and that seeing things realistically is the best course of action in the long run, seeing the problems firsthand and just having better judgement this is honestly VERY surprising it feels good to win a battle on which you are on the side on

[@uncledeath2246]

The person who did the Mannpower update in recent past was one of the Casali brothers, old time valve employee and part of the gaming community from the days of Doom (Plutonia). There may be more people working on tf2 than just the one person. Yet, this is still not an achievement for valve. I just wanted to remind/inform those who didnt know that Casali is still working and his and the other individuals' accomplishments should be recognized and cherished, in contrast with valve's inaction.

[@notapersonyourelookingfor6837]

Hate to see the community be split into two and consider the "other side" the enemy. Valve is clearly neglecting their own products, which is why as a whole the community of tf2 should seek any potential approach to solve the issue together even if it may seem risky to some. We are at a point where we have less to lose than Valve, so instead of inside fighting we could just attempt the boycott. It's not like we cannot live without some fancy pixels on a screen, right? And if the worst case scenario plays out then I suppose it was about time to let the game go, rather than keeping it in an infested with bots and downright horrible state

[@georgedevries3992]

When the other side blindly supports the greedy company, due to a lack of neurons and brain cells, and considers the anchovies players a nuisance if not a pest...

[@Flyingclam]

11:27 this argument is so underestimated. It's not just Valves games, it would be the entire industry going to hell. The market shock could legit cause a Video game crash

[@TryTane]

idk, I would say yes if it happened to fortnite but tf2 doesn't have that much influence. Also if they keep servers up for l4d, they won't shut down a game that makes money (whatever the amount is)

[@ZaalStrom]

I think this is a true enough statement. I've been trying to educate myself recently on business practices, and I've just had a different way of looking at things as of late. I believe, IF, somehow, TF2 had to be shut down, it would create an absurd domino effect. The first thing I see happening is lawsuits. While these suits may not do a whole lot in terms of being valid or earning funds to players, what it does is set a precedent; win or lose, digital assets mean nothing in the long run. In time, I'd imagine companies will begin to see that microtransactions have ultimately resulted in only short-term profits, so, almost as a knee-jerk reaction, press about in-game items will be rampant. Investors are likely to panic, and a market crash would happen in the video game industry. As a result of this, people would perhaps look at a grander scale: if my digital items in a game aren't real, how much of my other downloads do I actually own? In fact, the sentiment around digital downloads of movies and shows, books, etc. already seems to have acquired this stigma about it. (I'm mainly referring to a bit of info about how, if Steam were to go offline or shut down, a large portion of most players' libraries goes with it. While this is unlikely right now, imagine TF2 shuts down and the games market goes with it. Why would Steam be kept around?) The point with this is that it would affect the technology market at that rate. Of course, this is all hypothetical, heresay, imagined scenarios, but who's to say that this wouldn't happen? In this same vein, imagine if consumers won their hypothetical lawsuits against Valve. This would trigger, as Zesty put it, a seismic shock of negative sentiment toward the digital market. And, again, this would in time bleed into the tech market as a whole. Thinking about this on such a scale really makes me wonder, however. How bad could something like this truly get? Obviously, I'm spitballing arguments, making up scenarios, and, overall, not really educated on this. But if I, a random dude across the internet, with only a small bit of knowhow and some thinking skills, am able to conjure up this sort of idea behind what would to a near-17-year-old game, where ~70% of its player count is botted activity, it really puts it into perspective; this really could be a huge event, fixTF2 that is. Counter-Strike could have had this happen some years down the line. Imagine the shockwaves then. If there's one bit I want a reader to take from this, it's this: Team Fortress 2, if it were to be treated like a bomb, seems to be ticking. Valve aren't demolitions experts, either. If this "bomb" were to blow, the metaphorical fallout could affect technology as a whole. Of course, I'm being dramatic. TF2 is funny 2007 hat game. But, at the very least, consider what could happen from treating a digital asset like it has value beyond the binary that makes it up. Anyway, I'm done, thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[@darthgamer9861]

I will also never be able to get into the headspace of the people annoyed or upset with us taking Valve to task. I have yet to see a SINGLE God damn argument that isnt just petty insults “lul tf2 community annoying” or “lul game old let it die” Do people not grasp that if you have nothing of value to add you should just NOT speak? If you dont care about TF2, fine, just dont speak.

[@akatsiya]

Just came back to tf2 after a 18 month break and so far haven't seen any cheater bots.

[@SkyChaser-]

Zesty threw a Gas Passer onto the fire, what we actually needed

[@Dedmos2322]

the fact that the gas passer extinguishes teammates lmao

[@ashleysony7943]

​@@Dedmos2322what's more funny is that it won't combo with the Annihilator

[@Dedmos2322]

@@ashleysony7943 i love tf2 logic

[@ashleysony7943]

@@Dedmos2322 beautiful ngl

[@pingaschu2279]

​@ashleysony7943 yeah, about that...

[@lotion5238]

I seriously wonder why Epic Games hasn't captialized on the slowly increasing animosity towards Valve. Iirc Epic has a better cut for indie devs on their publishing contracts. They could swoop in and save the day but I imagine they don't have the idea.

[@BoundlessEnnui]

Because they're a parasite approaching from the perspective of a parasite, valve has just grown into being one.

[@MetaBloxer]

One think I'm wondering is about the review bombing. I was surprised that it actually went through, considering Steam usually prevents that. How much of an impact did that make, if any? I agree that boycotting is effective and should be pushed, and should be tied to the fixTF2 protest. But "your money is your voice" has not stopped whales from dumping their paychecks into a game. There's a reason AAA developers can keep releasing crap: because it still profits.

[@Shadrio]

I think this came a bit more indulgent than I hoped it would be, but I really think that Zesty is the most important TF2 KZbinr currently. The original "it's worse than ya think" video about how MANY bots there were actually feels like the most important video surrounding this whole FixTF2 movement, and it wasn't even directly associated with the movement, it just came out a few days before the proper video for the movement. And Zesty's gone on over and over on how tye boycott should've been there from the beginning and I still agree, if the logic behind starting FixTF2 was "might as well try, no point in doing nothing at all" then that very same sentiment would've also applied to a boycott. I enjoy Weezy's content, I really do, and I know he wasn't the only one against there being a boycott, but man his takes on why there shouldn't be a boycott at the beginning of the movement were really smooth-brained, I'm sorry. Glad they changed their minds eventually, but as you say: the community needs to take a wait and see approach now to see if this was just typical corporate "throw the dogs a bone" moment or a legit turning around for the state of the game. And if the bots come back the boycott should be LOUD. Fuck Valve.

[@boop004]

his videos are really good, honestly far exceeds my expectations as far as TF2 content creators go. He has the right idea about this topic and damn if he doesn't do a lot of research. I don't know much about Weezy though ... from that one comment of his I don't think that I like him, but idk.

[@inferno9872]

2:45 I will never not be confused when suddenly my steam connection goes offline and then I realize, "oh it's tuesday"

[@KeronWolf]

You've made good points all around. Should be worth noting that virtually every multiplayer-centric game that relies on live service is guilty of trying to maintain the game "below the bare minimum" at least until it hurts their bottom line. Seen it often end in said company going under because they don't see the danger until it is too late to save their game. One point you made that's been bothering me with so many bloody videos regarding TF2 is the whole live service thing. I do find it both amusing and incredibly disturbing how many people forget or just plain don't know that Team Fortress 2, on launch, had NO matchmaking OR Valve-operated servers. It was all player-owned and run servers. That got trashed into the shadow realm when the stupid "Meet Your Match" update came out and community servers, just like Detroit, never recovered from the blow. It is very disturbing how so many players today have been groomed over the decades by game publishers into thinking that every single multiplayer-centered game CANNOT operate without live service. On a side note, the only money I ever spent on TF2 was to buy the Orange Box back when TF2 first came out and that's all I will ever care to spend for the game. Side note 2, I'll see if this comment gets removed by youtube because I said the "G" word.

[@Spearklys]

why does pyro in the video have a gigantic hooha? 4:58

[@Doggo2-fn8hu]

I've been so confused what's been happening and it's very nice to hear a voice of reason that actually makes sense

[@theoktoberscarf]

IDK if this was seen by anyone else but me. But I felt like I watched a Timon and Pumbaa skit when the subject of "boycotting" was tossed around. Person 1: Maybe we could boycott the game, yknow, talk with out wallets. Person 2: Nah that's a stupid idea.....wait a second...What if we boycott the game? Maybe I'm wrong I'll take an L on it but I feel like that happen. Don't get me wrong I'm happy right now, I just have an itch for pointing out hypocrisy. AGAIN, I could be wrong.

[@TheEpicPancake]

I'm always pessimistic about twitter boycotts because they almost always are incompetently built and they both tend to be unwilling to actually make sacrifices thinking just being angry is enough, and they 180 instantly for the most minor of concessions. I doubt this will be much different, unfortunately. It's just a matter of time until the bots come back and we're back at square one with nothing having changed significantly.

[@supernovanetworkYT]

For some reason, gamers think developers and corporations are their best buddies who have their best interests in heart.

[@mikewazowski7024]

Zesty is the only TF2tuber telling it how it is.

[@dmonicplays8374]

"Bot hosters and cheaters deserve the rope if they haven't given it to themselves already-" I damn near spat my drink out. Can't say I disagree, but... gyatt dayum that was brutal

[@roijoleil268]

im glad someone is aware that these action did most certainly not stem from FixTF2. Such a response is not possible in the 3 weeks they had. I dont know when they started, maybe they did infact start when SaveTF2 happened or much earlier, or much later. Considering there hard stance on "Not one Innocent player shall be banned" in general, a reaction this big with seemingly not false bans requires quite some effort, especially if its a one-man show.

[@breeze2082]

I personally believe that it doesn’t matter how old the game is, doesn’t matter if it does or does not make them a ton of money. The fact that there is still a store and CAN make money should have them legally required to maintain it. If you don’t want to, you must remove any and all ways to make money off that product

[@xenosflame3458]

Welp, the summer update just came out, lets find out if they stick to keeping bots out, or if this was truly a cash grab attempt (spoiler alert, its most likely the later)

[@Guile_The_Exile]

If valve actually cared about this game properly and wanted a resurgence, not only would this bot problem have BEEN fixed, BUT they also would've brought the game to modern consoles with the option to turn on crossplay NOT FORCED UNLIKE SOME GAMES... (Death staring at YOU HALO INFINITE.)

[@Dedmos2322]

listen, i think its obvious that tf2 wasnt made for consoles. look at the 360 release. Maybe it would work for playstation because of the gyroscope but not all modern consoles have that. and hey, putting tf2 to consoles shouldn't be a priority. that doesnt make the game automatically better than it is. what we would need is a new uptade, hell, maybe we could have the legendary heavy uptade we wanted so much.

[@Daniel-tx2dg]

The bots being removed should be the bare minimum, It would be good to receive some ACTUAL content, new weapons formats etc.

[@w5527]

As much as I like Weezy’s content when I heard him saying a boycott was infeasible and they could use the voice actors to get involved I could tell 2 things: 1) dude’s main thing is MvM. He gambles using Mann Up tickets and he’s admitted to that several times because it’s very obvious and should be quite apparent anyway 2) dude has no concept of who the voice actors are. They’re actors. They WORK for Valve. Bro seriously thinks any of them are going to risk their careers for a neglected game? Seriously? It seems apparent to me that the organizers as a group are far too “bright-eyed and bushy-tailed” for a thought out enough plan on what to do. They don’t have enough real world experience to understand what needs to happen and to set aside their personal feelings. You can’t just ask and be placated as soon as something changes. You have to hurt them. It’s bitter medicine. I’ve been saying this for years now, “It’s the economy, stupid!” (Old phrase against Papa Bush) And just like Zesty said, if TF2’s micro economy dies then basically every other Valve-owned one dies too. Everything will free fall and keys would be worth less than their weight in paper. We don’t even ask for the Heavy Update we were promised anymore. We just ask for a functioning game and product. This pressure needs to remains. The CS community needs to get in on this. All the micro economies so Valve gets their head out of their asses and fixes their products. SPENDING MONEY ON A VALVE GAME PUSHES PROGRESS BACKWARDS

[@H3XCALIBURR]

We did it Patrick we saved tf2

[@realspicysparks]

🔥🔥🔥

[@linear1224]

Yep we sure did.

[@CleetusGlobin]

Not yet.

[@crux_crusader6945]

*hundreds of servers burning in the background*

[@niceshotd9130]

the match havent ended yet keep fighting

[@keithbrannon251]

Oh look an update video, danke.

[@tryctan2399]

isn't that what happened last time we did this? we got the bots out but only for a short time until they find another exploit and valves got back to sleep. i dont see what is different

[@imslightlybetterthanyou8365]

Yes... its the same thing... its all just manual hwid bans by valve

[@LinkiePup]

Actually, no. Nothing happened the last time during SaveTF2. People saw valve said "Well do something", and went cool, lets not push this further. And so nothing happened until now.

[@sansanimzisnotrealanymore]

@@imslightlybetterthanyou8365 yeah and hwid bans dont even matter, you can CHANGE YOUR HWID so basically nothing happened

[@ErisEntropy]

I'm happy to hear you speaking your mind. You've got a good head on your shoulders, and you bring light to important issues. This community is fortunate to have you. I really was disappointed by Shounic's response, but only because your videos showed me how big the problem was, what it really looked like. Not everyone is as aware