TF2 VS TFC: The Evolution of the Sniper

WHO WILL LIVE AND WHO WILL DIE!? Y'do know what people do in their pants when they die, right?
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Intro: 0:00
Round 1: 2:32
Round 2: 3:21
Round 3: 3:30
Round 4: 4:24
Round 5: 5:09
Round 6: 5:55
Round 7: 8:22
Final Round: 10:41

[@StickMaster500]

But the real question we need to ask, can the TFC Sniper throw a jar of piss at his enemies? *I rest my case.*

[@Leoeoeon]

Thanks stickmaster

[@Moshael460]

Yes

[@AtomicNutNetwork]

we can always count on you

[@stopmationscreations1873]

exactly

[@13th_Ghostly_Grimm]

Is the THC the sniper polite

[@BlazingShadowSword]

I think the reason the auto rifle and the sniper rifle look alike are because they're supposed to be the same weapon in different firing modes. They both use the same ammo pool and they look identical, the reason he doesn't scope is probably because that thing has some recoil that is probably not good for your face.

[@vehehgito]

That's good reasoning.

[@drucy.]

Now I'm imaginating TFC sniper just trying to fire the automatic mode while scoped and have the scope repetitively bonk his eye.

[@Appletank8]

... wait this is Widowmaker

[@digitaltoaster4956]

@@Appletank8 thought the same

[@MsMacintosh]

@@Appletank8 ...the engineer shotgun?

[@ChronicallyOn]

I want this to be a TF2 Achievement.. “Rivals, Mate?”: With a Stock or Classic Sniper rifle, headshot an opposing team sniper who is using the opposite sniper rifle

[@defuegodiablo4249]

wrote that like a payday achievement

[@FaBLoo-bw4hy]

great blue doesn't need more torture.

[@yeetboiwhatyesplease2095]

LOL

[@andrewpezent935]

Valve updating TF2? never heard of that

[@realCaveJohnson]

How about "Manic Headshotters" or "The Insane and the Australians"

[@NARbluebear]

A little fun fact about the TFC Sniper. In the comics, the TFC Engineer replaced his eyes with mechanical ones that see through everything. tl;dr he cheats and should immediately be disqualified.

[@williamwoxblom8417]

Well, they weren't replaced yet in TFC so it should be fair.

[@opmav-kz4tj]

He actually became Widowmaker, I saw a comment which says that the reason the auto rifle has the same model as the sniper rifle is because its the same gun and its like widowmaker now he has wallhacks its the same as Widowmaker now

[@uberd3323]

@@opmav-kz4tj Nobody cares about Overwatch

[@joonapukarinen1153]

@@uberd3323 Shush

[@iloveratafak]

@@joonapukarinen1153 no, no, he's got a point

[@killer12555]

TFC sniper was ahead of his time, he was the first person that knew you had to hit people where it hurts. Not the head, but the HATS.

[@davisdf3064]

"You destroy their heads, their life is gone You destroy their hats, their life is done" - Sun Tzu - The Art of Fortress

[@gavinrobinson8925]

We all know hats contain the will to live of your foes.

[@LarryTheTugaGamer1511]

​@@davisdf3064"Sun Tzu said that! And I bet he knows a little more about fighting than you do, pal. Because he invented it!"

[@GoldenseatGaming]

@@LarryTheTugaGamer1511 and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor!

[@PillzmansFox]

No one will know this is the 3rd version, and if they do find out they'll be thrown in a giant jar of jarate.

[@rbarua3368]

How do you know?

[@KKYY12]

wow

[@SquimJim]

It's only the 3rd version cause I uploaded the same file twice like a big DUMB DUMB!!

[@SM64002]

How did you know?

[@spardo91101]

@@SquimJim cool im not the only moron

[@Garbo_trashcan]

honestly, i feel like the TFC character designs are underrated. they look really cool in the comics and actually look like mercenaries. I love TF2 designs, but i think the Classic team deserves some appreciation too.

[@Orthane]

The TFC characters seem more grounded in reality, they're like rugged battle scarred veterans. The TF2 characters are stereotypes bursting with flavorful dialogue and interactions. The characters in TF2 are honestly the best part of the game. I love hearing a Sniper shouting at the top of his lungs whenever he headshots someone or Heavy making gun noises while mowing down people in a tunnel.

[@zombine7103]

Yeah and tfc has a more fair gameplay maybe except scout. Sniper is easier to play with in tfc, i barely get headshots in tf2 but you never need to headshot in tfc. Also you cant even headshot, you need to aim upwards from their head a bit, its tricky and hard but you dont need to headshot. You can kill all classes with a charged bodyshot except soldier and heavy. All classes has unieqe grenades. Tho i would like scout to have anıther unieqe weapon like how engineer has the railgun as a secondary. Scout only has one barrel shotgun and the chaingun with 200 ammo. Tho he is actually effective if you have skill. Its always helpful, you distract enemies, most likely slow them down or making them drunk and cant hit a shot.

[@thesovietduck2121]

@@Orthane it seems that the tfc team is rugged battle scarred veterans and the tf2 team are mostly insane

[@jockeyfield1954]

the only weird part about tfc is the fact that their designs are very modern and maybe even sci-fi like, yet the game is set during the first world war and presumably ends in 1968 when the tf2 mercs take over

[@NurseAmamiya]

@@jockeyfield1954 well, we can have Australia being a futuristic utopia during 1890 as an excuse

[@VagueCastle649]

Spy vs Spy next? I'd love to see how the "throw grenades while keeping disguise" compares to the sapper.

[@dickc.normus2406]

TFC Spy also has a shotgun IIRC.

[@zesnowpea6347]

What about soldier v soldier, since tf2’s screaming eagle can potentially stand up to bunnyhopping in tfc, especially with gunboats (look, if the tfc team gets 4 weapons, so should the tf2 team)

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

@@dickc.normus2406 isnt his shotgun the same one as scouts? the one that deals around 24 maximum damage

[@ii0000]

@@zesnowpea6347 gunboats? there is a rule about no unlocks for a reason :) and if you allow tf2 team to get 4 weapons then its a instant win for tf2

[@badideagenerator2315]

Tfc spy can play dead, has a tranq gun and hallucination grenades.

[@kamikaze4172]

Oddly enough, the TFC Sniper being able to slow enemies with leg shots fits his personality in the comics perfectly. Cause rather than finish the Spy when he had the chance, he let him bleed some and gave him some pretty speech which left him off his guard

[@thedbdentity2102]

He’s a crazy gunman increase gunman don’t have standards. Snipers don’t bother with meat shots in my logs they just take the shot

[@fleshdadbot6852]

@@thedbdentity2102 wh-

[@AAAAAA-gf2cz]

be efficient

[@DibbsonGibbs402]

and he also shot him in the leg with a pistol.

[@magnusm4]

@@fleshdadbot6852 Comic reference to Sniper's comment about the classic sniper.

[@McGrewer]

I know he did mention that the automatic rifle eats the TFC sniper's main weapon ammo, but I think he forgot to put it as a negative.

[@SquimJim]

I left it off the "if it was in TF2" kind of weapon stat thing because it would also imply the TF2 Sniper Rifle had 75 ammo too. So it doesn't really work out that way if you're looking at it on its own.

[@LostGameDev102]

@@SquimJim Hey I love your vid however I do believe there is a problem with the series. The problem is that half-life 1 and half-life 2 damage & health values are very different ( Half-Life 2's damage, armor, and health are increased from Half-Life 1's) TFC's damage, health, and armor are closer to Half-life 1's values then Half-Life 2's And TF2's health, and damage are closer to Half-Life 2's. So a base health of 90 in TFC (without including armor) is actually closer to 125 health when compared to TF2 because the damage that the TFC weapons do is less when compared to tf2 weapons to account for the lower health. I think that this problem of lower damage weapons being designed for lower health classes is the reason why The Classic sniper rifle is so bad in TF2 because when porting the weapon they based it of the TFC damage values, meaning that the weapon has lower damage than all the other weapons because it was based of TFC's values not TF2's. So to sumerize the problem with this series is that TFC's values are not converted when comparing with TF2's giving TF2's weapons and advantage

[@somerandomgamer8504]

​@@LostGameDev102The fact they are taken as-is is mentioned in the start of every single one of these videos, mate...

[@elijahfriedline9381]

Did you know? If you go to multiplayer settings In TFC, you can change into the old models

[@fogfatigue4980]

Said that the hitboxes are clunky while not saying a single word about the old models. He uses the new models but the old ones exist, too, they and their hitboxes appeared first and the game was originally made for them. The new and old models share identical hitboxes, most of the new models are smaller than the old ones and are client-side so obsiously it would look clunky

[@lm9029]

In TFC you could actually boost your teammates as sniper with friendly fire disabled. Fully charged shots would still deal heavy knockback so it became a strat to aim at friendly medics to let them jump into the enemy base for free without using frag/conc grenades. Even before Jarate, sniper could be a support class in more ways than one. I made a video that demonstrated it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmGbdnZnn5x6massi=7K7GWBE9gSmoBx88

[@bupmcbup8080]

Imagine shooting your teammates off cliffs Force-A-Nature style

[@VagueCastle649]

The tf2 equivalent of this is shooting a burning player with the Sydney sleeper.

[@PeptoAbismol]

@@VagueCastle649 shooting a teammate to help them fly across the map vs extinguishing a teammate who’s on fire with a gun that shoots piss

[@VagueCastle649]

@@PeptoAbismol Pre-2007 Syringe gun be like:

[@magnusm4]

Now I just imagine them randomly shooting their medics to the enemy base, without assistance and gets jumped by a heavy and soldier.

[@roytheidiot4844]

Fun Fact: In TFC as Sniper, you can use a fully charged shot to launch your own teammates.

[@SkeletonSSBM]

It's not super practical honestly because you can remove teammates armor by shooting them, but it's at least funny

[@arch-vile118]

@@SkeletonSSBM no it doesn't, at least most servers disable friendly fire\friendly fire to armor.

[@davisdf3064]

@@SkeletonSSBM It's actually useful with friendly fire disabled, because you can boost your teammates across the field (as if they weren't mobile enough)

[@elecman748]

@@SkeletonSSBM once, using the changed shot and a conc grenade, we capped the second area of dustbowl 5 seconds (or something like that). It was beautiful

[@ZackAttackHall]

One potential plus the tfc sniper had is, in servers with friendlyfire off, you can fully charge shot your teammates to send them flying extremely far. And if my memory serves me correctly, in a traditional server, its actually quite viable to do this with a friend on some maps

[@tonyf3431]

Sniper jump bottom text

[@xpload]

IDK why they changed the design for the TFC Sniper for the later comics, both designs are pretty cool

[@ralphthejedimaster]

one design is from back in their prime and the other is at the time the comics take place 40 years later. lot can change in 40 years

[@xpload]

@@ralphthejedimaster Okay fair enough, whoops

[@tonyshum5569]

idk i like the long beard

[@NikolasoGames]

Wdym? He's just older and wearing different clothes. In the Catch up he was younger and still a mercenary and wearing merc clothes.

[@andya.4253]

@@NikolasoGames more specifically, an urban camouflage suit ( i don't know the official name).

[@zer0ishere]

i need a tf2 medic vs tfc medic vid. i feel like being such a unique class though it may be harder to compare their attributes it could be a really interesting video to understand the overall game dynamic

[@yapflipthegrunt4687]

tfc medic wins automatically, he's just better scout.

[@billyboleson2830]

TFC Medic is literally TF2 Scout

[@davisdf3064]

@@jh047o No random crits are being considered But Über is still a viable option

[@jh047o]

@@davisdf3064 auto correct fucked me up lmao

[@theadministrator.6632]

@@davisdf3064 medic can’t even charge it.

[@supergamerbro9398]

I can totally agree with the fact that the only way to give the win in a sniper battle is to determine who can snipe the other first .

[@acki5661]

TFC sniper: "Guess what, I can cripple your legs." TF2 sniper: "Sadist..." I guess it is pretty accurate that in the comics sniper called the TFC sniper a sadist instead of a sniper. The guy's rifle does make people explode into gibs. Wonder where that gun went though in the comics cause the TFC sniper clearly didn't have the same rifle. Heck it seems like none of the TFC had their weapons. Where were their iconic weapons during the comics.(TFC sniper at least had a sniper rifle albiet not the TFC one) Sure there was that warehouse of guns the TFC soldier and scout were in but none of those seemed like they were from TFC just generic or stylized gun shapes.

[@genericTC2ber]

Given the fact the Classic in TF2 and the Sniper Rifle in TFC are different in functionality, I'd say that Mann Co. stopped manufacturing the TFC and Quake Fortress weaponry in favor of TF2's Arsenal, thus meaning the TFC guys (and gal) had to resort to whatever ordinary firearms they could get.

[@veryrealdrdog]

They probably swapped out their old weapons for more modern ones.

[@s.n.a.r.k.5146]

1:02

[@burakmuslu3061]

12:40 Actually there is an indication. TFC sniper's laser dot starts slightly transparent at first then becomes opaque as it is charged. It is a subtle detail, but exists.

[@ancel4452]

Remember that sniper in Vietnam that shot an enemy sniper, only to find the body and discover his bullet had gone through the other guy's scope and hit him in the eye - Meaning the guy was already looking at him, and he'd won by pulling the trigger a fraction of a second sooner?

[@deoxyyy3244]

Isn't that just a myth though?

[@AshenineR]

One of the funniest thing about the TFC Sniper is a charged up shot from their sniper can actually fling team mates like across the map if done well, just depends on how long you were charging for. Just have them jump in front of the sniper and shoot them while they're mid air.

[@deathstormer]

Yea some dudes troll teammates in TFC with this thing

[@paradoxglitch1108]

I could just imagine a fight between these two where they're both trying to headshot each other but they both continuously dodge it until both literally have their Scopes right on each other each other and the in the TF2 Sniper barely pulls the trigger faster

[@OmegaRC59]

You know, the fact that in TFC you have to stop mobing to start charging actually screws them in this matchup if they miss. Or if for some reason TFC Sniper needs multiple shots. I can say personally from experience against lots of good sniper players that if you had to consistently stop like that you'd just be screwed if the interaction lasted more than that one shot, which combined with the longer ttk really puts on a lot of disadvantages

[@ashtonhoward5582]

Actually they'd be screwed from the first shot. You can't really account for skill in these hypotheticals, you just have to assume all shots hit. Or assume they both miss the first shot, in which case TFC sniper is screwed due to fire rate.

[@dk8101]

Squim: "This is more of an evolution of sniper so don't take the fight part too seriously" Squim immediately after that: "AND IN THE RED CORNER!!!"

[@black97_0]

Sniper in comics when talking to spy about tfc sniper: "he wasn't a sniper. He was a sadist. There is a difference. Snipers don't muck around with gut and monologs. We just take the shot."

[@elecman748]

Then, he throws a jar of piss and laughs

[@NephilisThylord]

Dude you gotta finish this series. Watching what would happen if the 2 class versions got pitted in a fight against each other is awesome. And bringing light onto tfc is a very positive thing, because the game is genuinely fun, and the more actual people playing it (not bots), would be sick. I know the remaining tfc classes are a little more complex than the ones you’ve covered, but they would still make for awesome videos.

[@Underworlder5]

i wonder how the medics would be pit against each other. they function so differently that you are better off comparing TFC medic to scout

[@BluestSoldier]

So sad all comments were deleted, there was a lot of interesting discussion on these videos. Hope there's a way to restore them.

[@SquimJim]

Got word back that unfortunately they cannot restore them :/ Well at least not EVERY vid had their comments deleted. But a lot. Lame!

[@BluestSoldier]

@@SquimJim Even if they're gone now, these videos are still excellent and I'm very glad we have them back, with or without comments. Keep up your great content, Squim Jim!

[@jesternario]

You really need to do a three way fight, QTF, TFC, and TF2. Let us ignore Fortress Forever, Quake 3 Fortress, and Unreal Team Fortress.

[@Markm8]

No do them all, battle roaly

[@franagustin3094]

In the case of Quake, you have to consider their mods (Mega Team Fortress, Reg Team Fortress and FortressOne) because the community of QTF evolved and grown up with their mods. Quite differently compared with tfc and tf2 communities which ignored them

[@jesternario]

@@franagustin3094 You realize TFC was a mod, right? There wasn't an official Team Fortress until Team Fortress 2.

[@franagustin3094]

@@jesternario A mod created by John Cook and Robin Walker. MTF, Reg TF,. FO and FF were created by the community of QTF and TFC so it's not the same

[@scantyer]

nah

[@kalkuttadrop6371]

While I agree the final round is massively more important, considering how close it was and how many advantages TFC has in the other categories, I would have given them a minor edge for the point.

[@woobgamer5210]

tbh in a close or mid range fight, TF2 Sniper would win. its only at long range where TFC would win in a assault rifle/smg duel. but at that point... they'd bring out their sniper rifles and TF2 would win with the slightly faster headshot time

[@mrcrowthebird9836]

@@woobgamer5210 No one have aimbot aim you know. Second shot going to be win for TFC sniper.

[@SoybeanStudios]

@@mrcrowthebird9836 You think he's gonna pull off a second shot easily with that clunky, jarring charge? Nah mate, TF2 Sniper is way more efficient. He'd shoot down TFC's Sniper the moment he'd stop to charge.

[@mrcrowthebird9836]

@@SoybeanStudios clunky? You even played TFC? More than 15 min

[@ashtonhoward5582]

@@mrcrowthebird9836 you can't really account for imperfect aim, because then it's a game of chance essentially. Also, TFC sniper having to stop to be able to shoot is a major downside that gives the win handily to TF2 sniper. Stopping means death against a good sniper (which, as I said previously, we can't really account for inaccuracy and as such have to assume the first shot hits). Even if both missed the first shot, TF2 sniper can get another shot in right after TFC sniper is missing his first. There is no world where TFC sniper vs. TF2 sniper ends up in TFC sniper's win, between two equally skilled players, excepting luck. And luck isn't useful in hypotheticals.

[@ravenb3048]

That last frame from the comic actually summarises the differences weirdly well.

[@biosaber585]

this is an interesting argument because for all intents and purposes you'd expect TFC to win, but the problem is the drawbacks of the gear (game). The rifle just isn't as fast and for all its fancy tech, a simple scope, laser and one through the skull is always gonna beat out tech. This is actually similar to Sniper V Widowmaker where Sniper's quickscopes and general damage pool are BETTER than Widow's and fundamentally makes him the best sniper character in recent game memory.

[@uberd3323]

Why is everybody talking about Widowmaker in this comment section?

[@biosaber585]

@@uberd3323 probably because for all intents and purposes it's a similar type of match up, widow is sort of the modern TFC sniper and it makes a similar argument

[@mrcrowthebird9836]

You ever played TFC more than 15 min?

[@biosaber585]

@@mrcrowthebird9836 not the context im talking about

[@xpload]

14:22 Haha, who needs The Machina when you have the old sniper rifle?

[@BadModder]

The auto-sniper is probably the sniper rifle but in full auto fire mode

[@badideagenerator2315]

The tfc sniper rifle and autorifle are both a G36 assault rifle.

[@andya.4253]

@@badideagenerator2315 could an assault rifle somehow converted into a sniper rifle?

[@badideagenerator2315]

@@andya.4253 any rifle is a sniper rifle if a sniper is using it. It just happens that certain design features make certain rifles better suited for sniping.

[@supermudkipz]

The TFC Sniper in game model is more amorphous looking than Muk.

[@supermudkipz]

@FruityCrits It is! I like Muk, but cmon it has more of a shape than the TFC Sniper model ever will.

[@thatguybrody4819]

The Classic might be objectively the worst in the game (which i disagree with), but it's also objectively the most balanced rifle he has. if The Classic also took up the secondary slot when equipt and had the machinegun setting like the OG classic with a high ammo count 75 or 80 instead of the usual 25, it might be one of the best.

[@ashtonhoward5582]

Two separate weapons, the Classic has the normal amount of ammo, the secondary would then have the stat for sharing ammo with the Classic, if it is equipped, as well as increasing ammo count by 50.

[@rockowlgamer631]

welp so much for me thinking the Classic rifle had a automatic option like how Widowmaker's rifle work in TFC, never mind its the Classic and an assult rifle.

[@badideagenerator2315]

The classic *is* an assault rifle. It's literally a g36. The classic rifle and autorifle have the exact same ammo pool and model, implying they're the same gun.

[@rockowlgamer631]

@@badideagenerator2315 so you're saying it could've been possible to give Classic in TF2 an autuomatic option

[@badideagenerator2315]

@@rockowlgamer631 mabye. Perhaps you could press the reload key to change fire modes, although you'd only have 25 shots before the ammo runs out. I think tf2 should've come with an assault rifle/battle rifle specialist anyway.

[@rockowlgamer631]

@@badideagenerator2315 Here's what I'm thinking as to WHY the Classic doesn't have to the options, its because the SMG exists. It does the same damage as the assult rifle only now its affected by TF2's damage fall off mechanic they added. and left the sniper rifle as its own weapon

[@badideagenerator2315]

@@rockowlgamer631 there's actually some official concept art for an autorifle for tf2 sniper

[@Aabicus]

These are super cool! Can't wait to see TFC Medic vs TF2 Medic, you're gonna have an interesting time trying to compare those two :P It's interesting how little Sniper changed between games, dealing almost the same damage to each other and really leading to "whoever hits their shot first wins." I wrote an article back in the day comparing TFC Sniper to Overwatch's Widowmaker (who was heavily modeled after TF2/TFC Sniper) and I STILL found that to be the case! It seems to suggest that game developers have a very carefully-chosen rate of damage for a sniper class that they always balance around, even decades of development and franchises apart.

[@LostGameDev102]

Medic can infect people in tfc with the only one immune being the tfc medic on the enemy team so all tfc medic has to do is conc jump in infect everyone causing damage that only goes away when healed by a tfc medic btw and then just needs kill the tf2 medic which would be very easy considering the facts that 1. tfc medic can infect everyone including tf2 medic because unless they were the same person then tf2 medic wouldn't have any immunity and no way to get rid of the infection and 2. the fact that tfc medic is just tf2 scout but better. Even if you didn't allow the tfc medic to cause sickness then the fact that the tfc medic is effectively is tf2 scout but better would immediately end with a very dead tf2 medic and a very much alive tfc medic. Also Über is useless in a 1v1 because the tf2 medic can only use it when healing someone. tfc medic is so powerful that on most servers tfc medic is BANNED for being to strong and unbalanced. tl:dr tfc medic wins in almost every way

[@NurseAmamiya]

It was a shame that the mercs, like Scout, Demoman, Pyro, Spy and Soldier didn't got to fight their TFC counterparts in the comics

[@Blucario90]

I am satisfied with this one being a tie. It's perfectly balanced.

[@littlefirez2870]

the reason the head hitboxes are weird are because of you using the new models, the new models use the old models hitboxes so you need to switch it to old to get accurate hitboxes

[@ramiams862]

3:54 Concerning the issues with headshots and world models.. Valve introduced the first models which used the classic/old playermodel anims from Half-life seen in multiplayer models. The reason why hitboxes doesn't perfectly match with the new hd models is because its based on the old ones, so there's some flaws here and there. (Also applies to the weapon appearences).

[@bigbraintime3699]

"So it if can't be a tie, then the TF2 sniper wins." Me: YE- (Kicked for accused hacking)

[@raktorh5764]

Could you imagine how much BS TFC sniper would create, if he was in TF2?

[@Salted_Fysh]

I think you missed an important factor for the sniper vs sniper battle. As you mentioned, the head hitbox in TFC is very awkward. The hitbox in TF2 on the other hand is far more forgiving. In addition, scoping just helps you get more consistent leads on the head. Also the difference in shot-time might seem minor but if we were to assume both players to be good at the class, that speed difference would be quite significant. The last thing one could try to compare is the difference in tick rate and hit registration but I'm way too lazy to look it up and do the maths. I just know that TF2 is very responsive when it comes to hit registration.

[@kingofsnacks8566]

Actually, the jarate is quite similar to a grenade. Would’ve made the grenades round more interesting, but whatever

[@tntdawolf7650]

Ah the nail gun for when the cross bar breaks

[@ihitpeoplewithabottle]

Professionals have standards, compare, contrast, have a plan to pit everyone you meet (in a fight)

[@supermaximglitchy1]

Because the classic sniper’s sniper rifle and automatic rifle use the same model this could be the ancestor of widowmaker’s (from overwatch) gun

[@NikoFromOneShot]

I wish there was comic TFC sniper beard cosmetic for sniper

[@AbadabaForever]

There is one that looks kinda like it - Bushman's Bristles. Not nearly as long though sadly.

[@bastian_5975]

I think there is one thing being overlooked: not having to scope is actually really powerful. If they see eachother at the same time when neither are charged/scoped, tf2 sniper wins by a hair, but tfc sniper has a massive advantage in that he can see everywhere while being charged for a shot. Just looking at the very basic 2fort sniper battle, there are 4 places that someone will usually peak from (both sides of the battlements and then the lower area's entrances), and then 2 more from sewers, and then once in a blue moon you'll see someone coming at you from spawn. The tf2 sniper has to check all 7 of those areas individually while scoped, or can check them all at once while unscoped, but then won't be able to fire for that short period of time: tfc sniper can just peak out of one of those areas while charged, instantly spot the other sniper, and fire almost immediately.

[@jumpinghunter9152]

You know, the automatic rifle WILL be effective against the TF2 sniper, because even if you shoot the sniper with the TF2's SMG he will have SO many little flicks and his screen will shake so much that he won't be able to shoot accurately. And now add to this a perfect accuracy and no damage fall-of present of the automatic rifle in TFC, and you will have ideal sniper trolling weapon that will prevent them from hitting anything and will kill them on about 1,5 seconds, considering the time you showed us with 100 hp target. So i say that there is not even a slightest turn to a TF2 side, it is a perfect balance and tie between them, because in TFC automatic rifle actually was decent tool for lowering bhop speed of scout or medic. So i think they are REALLY equal in power in 1v1, TF2 just relies more on primary while TFC make better use of it's utility weapons.

[@jamesderington9141]

Love the quote at the end.

[@frazfrazfrazfraz]

Actually I think it would be pretty cool if the automatic rifle was brought over into tf2 as is, with the downside of sharing ammo with the sniper rifle with a total ammo pool of 25-35 This would make it really good for finishing people off at range but bad as a self defense weapon because of its lack of ammo and how it bleeds you out of sniper ammo

[@LMC764]

I've been waiting for this video

[@jimmyrustler5801]

Even if the TFC Sniper juked a shot and bunnyhopped/grenade jumped to the TF2 Sniper he'd just be putting himself in the range of a better secondary and melee. And with splits that low, .15 seconds is a lot of time

[@SpringDavid]

Explanation for the gun switching forms: -the gun adapts to its current holder. -the gun is actually a mix between both guns and we just see it like that to separate sniper from classic sniper -sniper literally just pissed on the gun and it got that color pallete

[@aceplante]

Honestly, with that close of a margin, TFC sniper's finger muscles would already be at the point of no return. In other words, they'd both headshot each other at seemingly the same time.

[@ashtonhoward5582]

And then you'd get the GTAV glitch of both seeing a lose screen, but TF2 sniper receiving the point on the scoreboard.

[@alextunneyware]

The fact you can't strafe, or even move as the TFC sniper while trying to fire bullets from the sniper should've been an instant win for the TF2 sniper, sure, legshots would help fuck up the TF2 sniper's mobility, but when you have no mobility if you're trying to shoot with your primary weapon, it's no contest, the only way you're winning is if you don't miss and you shoot first, otherwise you're a sitting duck waiting for the sweet embrace of death

[@M3CH1E]

THAT SNIPER'S A BLOODY SPY

[@krimson8089]

I wouldn't call it a tie. Tf2 sniper wins by lore aswell, so your determining factor actually works. As Mundy said: "Snipers don't muck about with gutshots and monologues. We just take the shot" ~Tf2 comics #6 Meta gets deeper. "Professionals have standards. Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet." ~Meet the Sniper It is mainly about snap headshots and that's what makes sniper fun to play.

[@kingfoxboy5174]

This is not counting lore, just in-game stats and such, as he said

[@Chorismos]

Also in the lore... The TFC team were not in their prime...

[@kelsothesarcasmpirate]

Liked for being posted so late. Part 2

[@a_creatorsstuff17]

Honestly even ig unlocks arent taken into account, id hope some do get counted if they are equivalents to the classic version and iconic to the character enough to be used In this case, considering all but the sniper counts, the jarate could be used to compare with the granade and the leg shot mechanic

[@thegreataggron]

Oh shit, just what my day needed

[@probablyexistant]

I think it would be interesting to do medic. You might have to do some alterations to the format, but I think it would be pretty cool to see

[@milliondollarmistake]

The Engineer video is probably going to be a pain in the ass for you to do I reckon

[@motoyomakoto7801]

For TFC sniper, you should look accurately at the laser dot to see if it's transparency changed and it slightly got more colorful, that means the rifle is charged. And it takes a long time tho.

[@kittysmak1799]

Maybe Valve should add the automatic rifle to TF2 someday, and as an additional stat, the rifle can ONLY be used with the Classic.

[@bigbozo75]

The reason you have to shoot above their head to get a headshot is because he is using the new models. If you switch to the old models in the game settings the hitboxes are fixed and more reliable

[@bigblue344]

Snipers in video games will never not be a pain because of how they control the field while easily doing one shot kills at a safe distance and if by some miracle you do sneak past the entire team they still have other means or can just get lucky with a no scope. It's always been bad video game design for a class to be countered by itself.

[@KopperNeoman]

Gimping snipers at close range simply can't be done without outright preventing quickscoping and noscoping, and not many games are willing.

[@bigblue344]

@@KopperNeoman My issue is how most games now copy the AWP for that one shot body kill or give snipers some free get out of jail card like overwatch or jarate+bushwaka

[@andrew_h6]

It depends on the game. Some games have sniper rifles that are really good and can one shot or nearly one shot on a body, but they also have fully automatic weapons with good accuracy that can 3-4 shot body and 1-2 shot headshot. BF5 for example, is unbearable to snipe in. Sniping in Star Wars Battlefront 2 2016 is not that powerful. In TF2, fighting a sniper can either be really easy or really hard depending on the map. You don’t see many people on cp_steel playing sniper, but you definitely see at least 2 on koth_harvest.

[@bigblue344]

@@andrew_h6 I can agree with that, in rising storm Vietnam I actually respect snipers because of the bullet drop and how most guns its 1-3 shots to kill with its realistic bullets even at long range.

[@Chorismos]

Honestly this wasn't the case in TFC though... TFC sniper was always quite balanced compared to TF2 sniper...

[@firesoulchannel]

Thank you theses are so good

[@boredboi]

technically headshot and the scope ability are an ability unless the headshot counts as crits

[@NM_Mattuz]

This was a nice finish to my birthday

[@rcpolygons]

I think it's funny you said sniper has a weakness. I don't think sniper has a weakness if you are good at headshotting at close range. It's the only class that you can negate the bulit in weakness. It's like if you are so good at shooting at heavy you move faster. There is never need for the SMG. Do they need to change that, yes.

[@badideagenerator2315]

I think if a tf3 is ever made, the stock sniper rifle should be based on The Classic from tf2, since its incapable of quickscopes, and can be disrupted using knockback, meaning sniper becomes less of a long-range camper and more of a long-range flanker.

[@coolersnoipah173]

Finally, the video we've all been waiting for! Can't wait to see the other mercs that are left. Also, hot take, but I think TFC Sniper could win pretty easily. He just has to have his Auto Rifle out and shoot the TF2 Snoipah center mass. Even if our beloved Sniper is already scoped in his aim is gonna flinch to no end(well...at least until he keels over dead anyway) since that rifle shoots fast and is basically 100% accurate at all ranges. And Sniper is definitely not gonna have enough time to charge a strong enough bodyshot in 1.23 seconds.

[@ceboots]

You can still hit a headshot while flinching though

[@Spookoffi]

@@ceboots basically impossible when you're looking at the sky with that fire rate

[@thatonechannel1937]

This should be a mandatory cutscene at the end of every single match.

[@kitteheast7938]

The classic rifle doesn’t deserve the hate it gets

[@jmurray1110]

It can be fun but it’s a objectively the worst sniper rifle

[@zesnowpea6347]

@@jmurray1110 yeah, fundamentally the worst, but when it comes down to actually using them, I’d give it to the heat maker

[@mejillon6211]

Working fine, thank you so much!!!

[@speedmaster24official70]

The second I saw this matchup It basically was to me a who manages to catch the other sniper with their pants down first weather its sneaking around the map to get them from behind or waiting in wait with the sniper rifle this is quite literally a tie in every aspect if its them vs each other

[@namesvanilla5479]

crowd pleasing answer

[@FinnJawsSharkinson14]

Now i have to wait another 3 months for another TFCvsTF2 video

[@honorguard7616]

I feel you forgot the rollout TF2 sniper has to walk,TFC could get to a preferred place faster to setup ,toss nades from safety to either force sniper to move or take damage and KB,disrupt his aim with a consistent stream of lead and can slow sniper by 50% for the rest of the round (Which add grenades and such would mess up his muscle memory a touch as well as making any frags more impactful as well as enhancing any positioning mistake (He would also be unable to scope in and move a corner as fast) and keep in mind if he needs to relocate ,TFC can do it in far less time

[@SquimJim]

Grenades don't go that far. If they're starting from opposite ends of the map there's no reason TF2 would ever get that close. TFC could get in position faster, but again there's no reason TF2 would ever peak without a charge. Meaning in scenarios where they have time to set up its even- not leaning TFC. But in a scenario where they don't have time to set up then it leans TF2. So that has to be the deciding factor.

[@BishopGantry]

@@SquimJim nade jump allows the tfc sniper to parkour from alternative routes and have weps to deal with it, tf2 snipers advantage is severly situationally niche

[@SquimJim]

@@BishopGantry That's a far more niche "advantage". Not only does it completely rely on the map having good alternate places to snipe from accessible only by grenade jumping but it requires you to sacrifice a TON of your health to do it and relies entirely on the fact that the TF2 Sniper wouldn't know you're doing it. It's all broad hypotheticals where TF2's advantage is clear cut and demonstrative. It has to be the deciding factor.

[@Michael-tt9ts]

Rollouts are heavily map reliant and require map knowledge to be effective. Meanwhile if it's a large or open space map you might jump into a sniper's crosshair if they see you. I see it happen a lot in tf2 2forts battlements against soldiers.

[@benjaminoechsli1941]

I honestly am surprised how close this match was. I am perfectly willing to call this a tie.

[@Ur_Average_serb]

Finally another video also pls actually do soldier vs soldier next

[@ssssssssssssssssss50]

Return of the King

[@fluffydestroyer8336]

a funny and janky thing you can do in tfc if there's no friendly fire is to charge up and shoot a teammate to launch them at ludicrous speeds. not really practical when you can just conc jump and you need some real good timing but it's there I guess lol

[@GoldenAngelis]

I mean. He won in the comics cause the TFClassic was being sadistic to Spy

[@user-ub9xu3wx8y]

I think the next battle should be between the tfc spy vs the tf2 spy

[@itexplodes3824]

If Spy's life is on the line the answer is apparently TF2 Sniper either way. I did wonder reading the comic what would have happened if they had a fair fight. Also the comic writer left on his own. And just. Didn't. Come back.

[@FriskMeemur]

I actually want a game like this. Tf2 VS tfc. That'd be pretty freaking sweet

[@foxtrotgaming4684]

"Im not an assassin dad, I'm a crazed gunman"

[@Jacquelinsane]

"He wins by about 1/7th of a second" is pretty realistic for snipers fighting eachother TBH.

[@vojtadrasner2440]

in round 6, smg has one quality that in my mind does beat at least no reload of automatic rifle or maybe even both no reload and no spread - one quality that you mentioned, but not counted in simply, it does now "waste" primary ammo. I very much know, that it could be very much a problem and likely reason why sniper has nailgun which does not waste ammo. in tf2, scout has this when using shortstop and pistol. And having shared ammo pool for multiple weapons is extremely annoying. Which would be even more with sniper, who cannot just go to body of last victim and pick up opponent's ammo, since sniper is ... at close range.

[@avian1799]

This matchup is actually really interesting. TFCs Sniper is more adept in general combat, can take slightly more damage, can defend himself against more things, but Mundy is just the better Sharpshooter, so he could bypass all these advantages and kill his predecessor before he can even get a shot in.

[@Orthane]

Oh God people think TF2 Sniper is OP now imagine if a fully charged body shot could 1 tap a heavy or a Soldier. Sheesh.

[@TheAweDude1]

In a 1v1, I would say it's a tie. But looking at the mobility of the TFC Sniper, I would give it to him in a team based setting. Think about it like this: Would soldier be better if he dealt double the damage, but jumped half as fast? He can still make the same jumps, he just does it at a much slower rate. Being able to move around the map as fast as he does is one of the reasons why soldier is so powerful. In any team based game, mobility is king.

[@M4x_P0w3r]

But what is the point, if the TFC Sniper can't fire while in the air? You are just asking the TF2 Sniper to include him in a frag montage

[@franagustin3094]

@@M4x_P0w3r With SMG you can do it, Medic has airshots too

[@TheAweDude1]

@@M4x_P0w3r You still have to get to the sniping spot. And you might have to leave. Yes, in a 1v1 on perfectly flat ground where the only goal is to kill each other, the TF2 sniper has a slight edge. But the TFC sniper can actually roll out.

[@M4x_P0w3r]

@@TheAweDude1 I mean, what you are suggesting is basically making the TFC a sort of rocket jumping soldier, which good snipers can shoot down before the get close

[@TheAweDude1]

@@M4x_P0w3r Right, but remember that the sniper's job isn't only to kill the other sniper. If you kill the enemy sniper, do you sit around picking your nose for the 12 seconds it takes for him to respawn?

[@jeremycocciolone9223]

Seeing how comments ive seen are all repeating it, i feel it should be worth considering, when it gomes to the grenades at least, if a tf2 character has something comparable to the tfc version, ie jirate and grenade, allow the tf2 character to use it in this matchup, as if this was any of the other classes, tfc seems to give each character more items, namely a grenade, where as the tf2 characters have to give up one of their 3 weapons with one in the same slot, which makes them lose in a different catagory, such as jirate possibly being concideredna grenade style weapon, the tf2 sniper then gets an instant loss ad he loses the smg.

[@BunnyJolf]

I feel like the biggest stomp will be the demos

[@timiking5237]

Hey there's a game called "rouge company" and some of the characters have similar attributes like for example, a character has a mini gun just like heavy , one of them runs as fast as Scott and there's a pyromancer who's immune to fire , it would be nice to see how some of the characters would be if they fought

[@thehighscalls]

TFC Sniper will never throw a jar of piss.

[@ripbozo9302]

Having bunnyhop and grenades while not counting unlockables is unfair in itself

[@SquimJim]

How? Bunnyhopping and grenades are default abiltiies. Not counting them is putting TF2 in a massive advantage that it does not need. Not only that but the TF2 Sniper's unlocks would make almost no difference here.