[TF2] Why You Should Ditch the Scorch Shot for the Detonator

In this TF2 Analysis video, I analyze the many misconceptions and advantages of the detonator, comparing them against the infamous scorch shot.
Most people believe that the detonator is only useful for detonator jumping and flanking enemies, but I am here to tell you that this is completely false! Yes, the detonator is an incredible tool for flanking, but it also allows you to do so much more!
I hope that by the end of this video, you have a better understanding of the detonator and think twice before equipping the scorch shot.
Discord Server: / discord
Song used in this video: Flanagan And Allen - Underneath The Arches

[@Pogi820.]

From the moment the video started I was sure the video would talk about this specific topic. I was hyped and the delivery was well done. I like that you keep things short and clear with a darn cool tone. I will start off saying that yes, the detonator is indeed the most consistent damage dealer out of the flare guns. It's better than the scorch shot in terms of AoE but the scorch shot is better at crowd control. The past Detonator - when you use it at first, it is not very satisfying and has indirect utilities, unlike the flare gun's combo. It was also less straight-forward than the scorch shot, so when people claimed it to be hard to use, it was probably because they didn't give it much time or because its damage seemed underwhelming. det-jumping was not well known or simply too niche to seem viable. The current Detonator - after gunmettle arrived, the weapon had a change which most people didn't actually understand, this gave us the new comprehensive det-jump mechanic that we have today (utilizing the right click). Slowly but surely player started realizing the jumping potential the weapon had until some content creators talked about it (including a new tutorial) then det-jumping became a trend of itself, leaving the detonator's damage unnoticed. Still, I do think that your mentioned creators were only stating what others said before them and were directed towards new players. I've learned about the detonator through VALVIE's videos and reddit. He actually said all there is to say about the weapon, yet it wasn't popular enough to bring everyone to understand it. (I will put 2 links down the comment). About the scorch shot: speaking casually, with the detonator you need to think and get used to the timing of your detonation, not only you need to shoot but you also need to right click. That is less intuitive than something like a rocket launcher, which you need to simply shoot at the general direction of the enemy and hit the splash damage even if you miss, just like the scorch shot - it's intuitive! And when it comes to the bouncing flare, in mid to close range and close corridors, the chance of hitting twice is significantly higher: - on close range because the bouncing flare is next to you so aggressive enemy will have to go back - and on closed corridors because it limits your enemy's movement and hitting a nearby wall is an instant double (especially if you just airblasted him there). (There are some rare instances of the bouncing flare hitting the floor immediately, which can kill unprepared squishy classes). So in terms of possible burst damage, the scorch shot can save you in matches that the consistent detonator damage wouldn't be able to. An additional stat which you've overlooked is the stun-lock, which isn't necessarily a fight back argument, but a better reasoning for "hating" the weapon, because it kills momentum (which nearly assures bonus damage from mid to close range). A stop in momentum is much easier to notice and panic from than just an afterburn and I think people were against this weapon long before he was talking about it. Because it wasn't punishing to use and easily rewarded new players for less skill, it was commonly used so its negative effects were much more familiarized. Also, Zesty is very passionate, whether it is when he gives smart arguments or when he gives dull ones, he states what he feels, not just what he thinks in an objective manner. That passion provokes discussion but also emotions, when taken too emotionally it can quickly be misinterpreted and become Chinese whispers, for me it took time to digest his spicy content but at the end it's fun, trends can be fun - when many have a common consensus (even a stupid one) they can start relating to each other as different as they are. But I do think that we should view things from different perspectives - just to keep us sharp ;) Damn I got too philosophical and dumb, it took me too much time to write and too long for you to read, but I had fun watching the video, that was my appreciation sign. Have a nice day (: The detonator's competitive use: (look out for VALVIE's answer) www.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/lab0ck/best_allaround_flaregun/glncbb2/?context=3 The detonator's jumping secret: www.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/bx57go/detonator_is_there_a_difference_between_regular/

[@LEDs]

Just wow… It lights me up to see such a well though-out comment with references. I read every single word and enjoyed every second reading. If this doesn’t deserve a pin, I don’t know what does!

[@Pogi820.]

Seeing all the other comments make me realize - I haven't said anything new. Let's keep this short: 1. People don't know the true jumping potential of the detonator (see jump_pyrokinesis and the links) 2. watch Anthid, kristianma and sketchek. 3. The DDS renders the pyro useless. 4. The detonator's full afterburn gives axtinguisher safe kills 5. Let's talk - airblast head jumping.

[@Pogi820.]

@@LEDs Oh wait, you actually responded. Sorry - was writing the second comment to avoid a reply XD

[@C.A._Old]

Holy Cows ! +1

[@TunbosunOyenuga]

Correction: Gun Mettle didn't add Alt-Right... Gun Mettle increased the jump height the Detonator can reach, Explosion Mini Crits burning targets, and increased the Explosion radius. Before Gun Mettle both the Detonator and Scorch Shot were not popular in usage sidegrades, because "damage is king" and popping crit flares was the best pyro can do in people's eyes. The jump of the Detonator was pitiful and Scorch Shot damage was laughable unless someone love to stay on fire. Gun Mettle buffed both flares into decent sidegrade.(Also can't forget the Reserve Shooter used be a thing) I find it silly that people that have play the game for years but just discover the Detonator can destroy stickies, or the Detonator dealing more damage than the Scorch Shot, or the explosion has the same radius as the Scorch Shot. It almost as if they don't actually play the class or use different weapons. Only parroting what narratives they think is right without experimenting for themselves. When comes to the knockback, the Scorch Shot's knockback doesn't really kill momentum. Surprisingly it adds to people who are already generating momentum. - Boosting Charging Demoknights & Pyro kzbin.infoUgwNPCZyiHEAuNm3BgV4AaABCQ kzbin.info/www/bejne/naG1h3eLltBrqc0 Their are more examples that are not demoknights. Like a medic following their pocket and get knocked forward but i forgot to clip that specific video. The reason is feel like a stun is mostly due to people either not/barely moving prior to getting hit. These folks don't generate enough are just fully experiencing the force give by the Scorch Shot. However, there are times when people are moving but get hit... even in open spaces, mostly because they double back on themselves or walk into a wall. They would scream stun too but - Backpedaling in Flare or Running into Walls kzbin.infoUgkxYz0x7piLJGyFsbQzCCZVZe7UUUNngrAA kzbin.infoUgxmED70hy19XEgBbKx4AaABCQ kzbin.infoUgzzHuerxHnogR2VXzt4AaABCQ Lastly the Scorch Shot doesn't have stun, for years now. After Jungle Inferno all stuns in the game were changed to slowdown for .5 secs. It just people hating CC effects, think this was brought out more by competitive players and it the mindset got spread to causal players. When it come Zesty and some other tf2tuber, I don't really take much of what they say seriously. Especially you going to demonize and complain about "Negation Mechanics" in a game where classes have special attributes/skills/weapons... also. Then you have this weird crowd that like calling TF2 a movement shooter (something more akin to Quake or Open Fortress) when it clearly a "class-based shooter" with only 1/3 of classes in the game this assessable movement from the start without unlocks. I honestly think it laziness on players complaining about the Scorch Shot and romanticizing the efforts that flare guns take to use when aiming flares on a fundamental level is identical to all expect the Manmelter .( it not much at all , and call can be spammed down chokes the same way.) Personally, I don't like the Detonator... too much self damage just for that level of jump. Correct me if I'm wrong but TF2 Beta Detonator jump height looks way more and far more satisfying to use. If the Detonator had more height or took less self-damage then I would use it more. (Also the noise please get rid of that only have when it explode... you have be deaf if get caught you get ambushed or flanked with that.) - TF2 Beta Detonator kzbin.info/www/bejne/boC7mZdnnr6irck Can the Scorch Shot being annoying, yes. I don't think any user has deny that nor doesn't count on not annoying players ( mostly due to the knockback). Is this monstrous overpowered weapon that the people pretend that it is, No... well if don't like moving & paying attention to surrounding or healing in 10.5 sec (If said "you" it in reference to others, also my grammar is shit) Two other pyros you should check out are Melon and Spyko

[@flyingcoconut2284]

I use scorch shot not because of its fire damage, but because of the emotional damage it does to people.

[@LEDs]

😡🤯

[@AnnaSue81]

thats just an ass move

[@darrenchen964]

Evil

[@patrykzukowski7471]

Meaning... zero? Why is it that people always talk about something like it's the most destructive thing ever, but when I'm playing the game it's virtually harmless? Scorch Shot's flare that bounces after a hit.... you just walk around it. Yeah, it's a bit of an area denial, but it's so harmless - just don't walk into it. I really don't know what's all the fuss is about. But maybe I just don't see good flare-type Pyros. Now that I think about it, it seems like I've never, ever met a Pyro that would pose any kind of danger to me with a flare-type weapon - while I constantly am posing such a threat when I play Pyro. Same with W+M1 manouvers - I literally have almost no ecnounters with W+M1 Pyros where I die from them - but when I play, I kill people all the time by just flaming and getting closer. And I play only on community servers. Either I'm just a good Pyro player (I can't airblast for shit though and I don't feel like I'm that good), or people are reaaaaally shitty at playing as and against Pyro.

[@doodlebob9943]

Thats why i wont use it in servers

[@osoevil4347]

I like the detonator as apposed to the other flare guns. Detonator jumping is fun whilst having a good source of damage at the same time.

[@LEDs]

Right on.

[@dominatorplays2577]

Exactly

[@RRRIDLEY]

A small handful of braindead KZbinrs aside, the Detonator has never been called a bad weapon. It's just not an easy-to-use, non-demanding "fire and forget" weapon like the Scorch Shot. The Detonator requires you to be paying attention to detonate its flares & do damage. With the Scorch Shot you simply spam at a choke, hit someone and the flare drops to the ground, hitting more enemies... or you miss, shoot the ground and do damage with the splash anyway. More people will be able to do a consistent level of damage with the Scorch Shot, whereas the Detonator requires practice and ability to do slightly more damage than its rival gun.

[@LEDs]

Yes, the detonator does take more effort and practice to get good with. I don’t think most KZbinrs think it’s bad- I just think they are quick to say that the detonator is just a mobility tool. That said, I think the amount of practice you have to do to get good with the detonator (shouldn’t be much) pays off and opens up more options than just flanking. Thank you for the comment!

[@peterisawesomeplease]

Almost no one calls the detonator a bad weapon but people constantly underrate it despite it being nearly universally the meta in both HL and various levels of pubs. So many videos act like the shot guns or stock flame thrower are on at least the same level and the the SS is clearly better. People need to stop making detonator underrated videos and start making shotguns underrated videos. But in modern tf2 post JI it is just the obvious secondary to use. The detonator does have a higher skill floor and a higher skill ceiling than the SS. But most tf2 players as this video points out are above the skill floor needed to do as much damage with this as the SS. And I would further argue that most of the super high skill mobility options of the det only vary rarely come up. Basic jumps are not harder than basic rocket jumps and are 90% of what you use. Which means for the vast majority of players are on a similar skill curve with the detonator as with the ss. The main tradeoff being with the SS you are working harder on getting better at directs and with the Det you are working harder on timing and jumping.

[@moronribbons5774]

That also makes the weapon balance out better too; it takes more focus and practice on the pyros part (often in the moment too; several cases where I've missed a first detonation at a choke and adjusted my next shot/s accordingly) and it also leaves them more open. They have to reload so they can't just reactively hop away with a flare if they get ambushed, and spies can absolutely take advantage of the focus on flaring people.

[@rustyruinz]

And besides, I don't have a det myself

[@LEDs]

@@rustyruinz Get one!

[@Z0u1Th3Sl0w]

I feel the two are actually sidegrades to each other. They both have offensive power to spare, but they exert that power differently.

[@LEDs]

I agree. There are applications where the scorch shot shines. This video was more along the lines of explaining why you shouldn’t “default” to the scorch shot without taking advantage of the detonator’s surprising offensive capabilities.

[@rodakdev]

Hitting scorch shot's second hit isn't that hard, since it stuns the enemy by launching them in the air.

[@LEDs]

It’s more consistent for slower classes like Sniper or Heavy, and it’s not “hard” so much as it is just based on random chance. I usually try to mitigate this by shooting at legs do that it takes less time for the flare to hit the ground after.

[@DommTom]

Actually, a direct hit with the Scortch Shot already will hit the enemy twice because of that stupid stun-locking effect.

[@LEDs]

@@DommTom Not always

[@DommTom]

@@LEDs No. When you're directly hit the shot will launch you in the air guaranteeing a successive shot. What's funny is that this even happenes with friendly players. FishStick once showed footage where hit hit a teammate and still managed to hit the enemy through this very menachic.

[@thebushbros6626]

@@DommTom Unless the dumbass (enemy) doesn't move, he will never get hit by the second flare (unless its a reved heavy or sniper, then it depends on reflexes). Also Fish's example doesn't prove anything really considering the grenade launcher does the same thing.

[@TheSexDefender]

Tbh I literally can't play pyro without the detonator, it adds more movement, adds brain usage, makes the flare-airblast combo viable again, just hands down the best flare gun in my opinion

[@LEDs]

Same. I use the detonator at LEAST 90% of the time when I play pyro. I feel so restricted without it

[@Awfulfeature]

“Adds brain usage.” Is a beautiful sentence.

[@TheSexDefender]

@@Awfulfeature honestly pyro needs the brain usage.

[@mrgaminduck5544]

Another thing that Fishstick says about the detonator is that it is a great crowd control option, that allows you to hit multiple people with a well timed flare, as well as being a mobility option.

[@pyropian8640]

I have 993+ hours in TF2 and only today did I learn that the detonator has the ability to detonate with the special button. This discovery made me feel like a new weapon got realesed

[@chJohnJobs]

I think this is one thing i wish more people did. a lot of people will have these pre-concived notions about a weapon because someone else told them so. completely ignoring a weapons own strengths to a weapon they think is better. A lot of weapons have their own strengths that do not compare to others. even if they weapon is objectively worse in some cases, ignoring what a weapon is good at will lead to a much staler game

[@LEDs]

Nicely put.

[@KozelPraiseGOELRO]

I used the weapon for long time before watching a opinion about this one, and I found better the Flare Gun.

[@scootyman_]

I think the last time I played pyro, (very long ago) I had also been brainwashed that the detonator was only for mobility, but that's why I used it. So I probably ended up unknowingly getting more kills but only focusing on the fact that I could moon jump

[@LEDs]

Thank you for sharing!

[@someone-ge3zl]

yo is that scootyman from tf2 jailbreak servers?

[@scootyman_]

@@someone-ge3zl HI

[@degiguess]

The detonator honestly combos so well with the dragons fury. Being able to effortlessly set people on fire with full afterburn completely negates the DF's afterburn penalty and also negates the issue of your first DF puff being weak. If you open a fight with the detonator that means once you get into DF range your shots will already be buffed. This can also be done in the middle of a fight, one of my favorite mixups is: >puff someone with the DF >airblast them into the air >switch to detonator and shoot them (causing full afterburn and minicritting since they're already on fire for 2 seconds from the first puff) >switch back to DF just in time for the airblast cooldown to end so I can finish the job. The combo would admittedly do more damage with a different flare gun but the detonator being so easy to aim means there's basically no risk of accidentally missing my shot in the heat of the moment since even if I miss their hitbox I am all but guaranteed to catch them with the detonation. The only real counter to this mixup in a 1v1 situation is be able to react fast enough to kill me before I pull my DF back out to finish the job. Even without the insane mobility the detonator would be top tier. With the mobility it becomes irreplaceable.

[@Aquas1998]

The Detonator definitely is hell of a secondary that’s for certain. Needing to get around isn’t just its perk, but its long range disruptive capability from snipers to groups can really serve as a distraction either on you or for the enemy supporting team to fall back.

[@matheusrios4223]

I play this game since 2011 when it became free in the uber update (those where the good times), and the main classes I played since the very start were engineer and pyro. nowadays I'm more of a pyro main because I got fed up with the average stupidity of casual tf2 players that have zero concern of positioning and helping (you know, act like a TEAM). That said, I NEVER, not even in the launch of the weapon back in the pyromania update, found the scorch shot to be even remotely OP. In my vision it was always a gimmick crowd control flare gun that was made thinking more about defense than offense, and this is where the scorch shot shines, even to this day. The Detonator was always a more mobile offensive tool with crowd control that I always used with the axtinguisher and degreaser (this where the old days kids, when axtinguisher 100% crit burning players for 195 damage and degreaser gave us universal 65% weapon change speed) so I could light enemies and close the gap faster with a detonator jump to finish with the axtinguisher. I only pick the scorch shot in defense situations to spam chock points, but in reality the detonator outshines it in every way. Double hits with the scorch shot are way harder and less often than some big brains tf2bers want you to believe, and the last thing you want to happen in a offensive combat is to launch your enemy 20 meters away from you, which will happen when trying to combo it with any flamethrower because of the increase in push force on burning players (you dont want the enemy to be away from you as pyro, you want it to be the closest possible so it receives max damage from flames and can be combo easy with flare crit, shotgun finisher and axtinguisher minicrit). Oh and btw, if you have no high ground, good luck with the scorch shot. Detonator don't care if you are bellow, above or same level of your enemy, or if it is behind a wall or they're faster and can do jumps to escape. if you read all this, I hope you have a good day :)

[@LEDs]

Of course, I read all of this! I agree 100%!

[@Mr.SlappyTF2]

add a TLDR PLZ

[@matheusrios4223]

@@Mr.SlappyTF2 well, TLDR: Detonator better than scorch shot in everything, from damage to mobility, since release of the weapon.

[@digojez]

I think the scorch isn't op but very annoying (distinct difference)

[@WulfieZi]

I ran into a det pyro yesterday. Threw me for a loop cus I'm used to dodging Scorch Shot projectiles. When I saw the weapon he killed me with I was like "oh yeah, that one mini-crits too".

[@MickyVideo]

I didn't know people didn't like the Detonator. I love using it to hit enemies just about retreating behind a wall.

[@tuenguyenvan3112]

I run into the problem when I use the Detonator like a Flare Gun, making it worse

[@tuenguyenvan3112]

Also, I love your music video Russian Time, how are you doing?

[@DallinBackstrom]

I think people would be much more interested in the detonator if it automatically detonated upon hitting a surface, instead of sizzling (which feels like wasting a shot). If I could make a balance change to the scorch shot and detonator, I would: 1) make detonator flares never fizzle, but burst automatically when hitting a surface; 2) remove the "blast radius" from scorch shot flares, requiring the flare to hit directly to deal damage, thus making them occupy strictly separate niches

[@LEDs]

I like that

[@philipjamora2345]

The reason i used scorch is because of my connection its so fucking laggy I can't time my detonation on the detonator i equally love both secondaries

[@IVstones]

i am glad that there is another sensible person out here preaching the good name of the detonator

[@rpegaming7564]

You hit the nail on the head. I haven’t every really gotten the scorch shot hate, it can be annoying to get it by it from across the map, but that can be hard to account for the drop. Also the knock back really isn’t that bad and you need to be on fire for it to really do anything useful which can be hard to achieve against anything that isn’t a heavy. The whole scorch shot one shotting light health class in my opinion has always been dumb because you can always walk away or get a health pack if he got your from across the map, and it still takes a lot of skill to hit directs so… what makes that different from the flare gun? Let me reiterate, Some how it’s skillful for the flare gun to hit a direct hit , but it isn't scorch shot? They both have the same arc and reward you for hitting a direct shot, but both of them reward you differently. But in the end, I guess that also stems from the fact that people can’t accept that they got out played by the pyro in general even when he made the right call and abused the I unwatched flank.

[@rpegaming7564]

Something I forgot to add is that both can delete stickies as well, but the Detonator is hands down better as it doesn't need to impact the surface near the stickies in order for you to destroy them. Also if anyone want to get better at using the Detonator VAVLIE TF2 in the past has made 3 most watch videos One that details how to jump well with it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/npi2lXWNbtOdgZI One about a map you can practice these skills on: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZevZZeeh8p9ecU And one that can help you practice your timing skills: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5aTp4qcr81ji7c

[@LEDs]

@@rpegaming7564 Incredible reply! You are also entirely right about the detonator being better at destroying enemy stickies. Enemy demos often have stickies lined up against walls that are somewhat hidden from your perspective (door frames being the most common), and you can’t destroy them with the scorch shot because there is no surface to shoot, yet you can destroy them with the detonator. I do this all the time!

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

the scorch shot is annoying because you dont need direct hits you can use it perfectly without even hitting a single person and the direct hits are kinda annoying because it messes with your movement, and can hit you twice, dealing a good amount of damage

[@flameconvoy7424]

​@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 that first point is the same for detonator

[@mariustan9275]

Direct hits with fine is either. What I dislike is how easy it is to use. I mean in terms of splash damage. The splash damage in my opinion is too easy to use compared to the Detonator, which requires you to time your detonation properly and if you miss, you miss. The Scorch shot means if you miss you can still get rewarded if you just spam the ground near an enemy. It also means you can hide behind cover, come out, shoot and repeat. To effectively use the Detonator you fire one shot, watch as it flies and THEN alt-fire. Also the bouncing flare seems tk be there for nk real reason and just means the reward for direct hits is quite a lot, since you can hit enemies twice with the same flare. A simjlar weapon, the loose cannon, takes aim, timing and patience to charge it up and you sacrifice quick grenades. Much more respectful in my opinion. The Scorch shot just requires eyes. If they made it only explode on direct hit like a grenade, I would be perfectly fine. And no bouncing flare. I'm OK with knockback. It's not overpowered, just annoying for me. That's my opinion though.

[@AdawaShiwani]

The detonator was my 1st flaregun and I’ll always love it!

[@TheBuisnessPyro]

it still requires brain usage. Its still good, you just need to time good like a stickyspamming demo

[@LEDs]

Correct. You can throw on the scorch shot and just run around spamming it at people, or you can use your brain a little more and have good timing with the detonator, and you’ll do better.

[@indeathsembrace666]

Supremely informative. I like the conclusions and consensus sections safe to say I'll be giving the detonator another shot.

[@halfpace1462]

Is the song used in the outro from the shining? Reminds me of the bar scene

[@hoopdedo274]

I’ve never understood why the detonator isn’t the one being labeled as the spam weapon as it’s even easier to get mmphm for the phlog not even mentioning the flare jumping you can do with It while crit boosted

[@poogapop]

Amazing video! this made me change my thoughts on the flare guns and pyro overall, although one thing i will miss from switching from scorch shot to detonator, is the rage you get from killing people with the scorch shot. keep up the good work! 👍

[@LEDs]

Good to hear! It’s funny how many people in the comments use the scorch shot because they WANT to get a reaction out of the other team

[@SkeletonSSBM]

Genuine question: Why do people like when other people are mad at them? I've NEVER understood it.

[@LEDs]

@@SkeletonSSBM It’s not that they like how people are mad at them. It’s that they like how people get mad over something that’s just part of the game.

[@TheWither129]

The thing people really hate about the scorch shot is how easy to use it is in most situations and how powerful it can be in such situations. Its knockback can be infuriating to play against, and allows it to potentially hit harder than any other flare gun, the incredibly forgiving explosion radius, its only real weakness is against people above you, which can be mostly negated with good aim. I agree, the detonator has way more potential, it just needs a little extra work put in rather than fire and forget, and given the nature of pyro players, most like to fire and forget. The detonator and stock though absolutely can outclass it when you get to know them, its just how much easier and more brainless the scorch shot is that makes it so prevalent.

[@mariustan9275]

Yeah, that's the part I personally don't like. The other flare guns give more damage for more effort, through team support (manmelter), precision (flare gun) or timing (detonation). The scorch shot acts more like a rocket with faster projectile speed that can pop players up for much less effort.

[@notagreatname2715]

detonator feels like it could be fun but i have no idea when im meant to detonate. it feels like whenever i do it when the flare is near enemies it just doesnt detonate and hits a wall, and if i do it a bit earlier nothing really happens. do you have to detonate a bit early for it to count or am i just bad?

[@pikasalt]

It's practice, try to get good with the regular flare gun. Getting good with that will make you a killing machine with the detonator

[@LEDs]

It could be your ping. If you have high ping, your detonation will be delayed, meaning that you'll have to compensate by detonating earlier than usual. Other than that, you just have to practice. I promise that you can get the hang of it!

[@lucasinazumai9873]

I'm of the mentality of "Weapon is secretly good, gotta try it." So Imma give it a shot. I'm a sucker for weapons that can detonate on command and I really wanted to learn how to flare jump. Knowing that I can close in on fast enemy players without the risk of the damage bonus of the Powerjack at the cost of a few health really intrigues me on this playstyle.

[@LEDs]

To me, using the detonator is almost a necessity. There are so many different ways you can approach a fight, and that makes it all that more fun. I hope you have fun with it and adopt it as one of your main secondaries!

[@davitdavid7165]

Interesting take. There are some things you did miss. The knockback on the scorch shot is one of the big reasons why it is hated. It also makes it very likely that the second flare hits. With that in mind, the flare for the scorch shot deals almost as much damage as a crit from the stock flare gun, as zesty calculated. That basically makes it like the stock, but with splash damage in case you miss. The ease of use argument can actually go deeper too. One thing you can take into account is familiarity. The scorch shot exploding on impact really reminds me of soldier, who is a very popular class. The detonation mechanic is closer to mid to long range sticky spam, which is a rarer thing to see, especially from new players. As a side note, I think you will also have a lot of fun with the quickybomb launcher for that reason. And I want to challenge the jumping portion. Why does the scorch shot not give you as much of a push? Because it deals less self damage. Now here is an interesting comparison. By reducing self damage, the gunboats decrease the hight of rocket jumps. And yet it is seen as an overall improvement. Why isn't it the same with the scorch shot? I think you and I stumbled on a bias in the tf2 community. And this is probably how the story went: People read the stats of the scratch shot and detonator and theorised which role each of them had. They used them accordingly and spread the word. Overtime all of it became dogma. I now realise this has happened in warzone too, with the assumptions that the hdr has a worse ads speed than the ax50 and that the m4 was better up close and the kilo- at long range. Even in pubgm, where the stock attachment made people think the m416 was more accurate than the g36 and the aug. While writing this comment I realised that you accidentally came up with a way to balance the scorch shot! When you ommited the knockback and wrote off the flare bounce the scratch shot and detonater seemed perfectly balanced, even more so as I explained. So if you remove the knockback and flare bounce mechanics their relation becomes the following: The scorch shot is now a weapon you can shoot at the wall and then quickly switch to your flamethrowers with. It allows you to make most jumps while having more health than you would with the detonator. And the detonator is now a gun with higher damage that can hit even more shots if you train with it and focuss more on each shot instead of quickly switching to something else or setting your eyes on a new target and allows you to do more jumps at the cost of more self damage. The detonator is now the more risk-reward version of the scorch shot! Even at the competitive level you could make the arguments about the detonator giving you more damage and mobility vs the scorch shot giving you most of it while making you retain more versatility. And stock now is undisputed in its role as a burst damage weapon and combo tool. Its perfect!

[@LEDs]

Interesting take indeed, and it makes for a great comment. I never use the gunboats nor do I ever play warzone, so I can't answer some of your questions, but you are right about the splash damage after the player is stunned. If it does hit, boy is it deadly.

[@ukyoize]

I guess it's because gunboats don't reduce rocketjump below some specific threshold

[@somekinnn]

Thing is, I think without the knockback mechanics, the scorch shot would be extremely uninteresting to both use and fight against. Whilst it definitely needs changes, the knockback does allow for some really interesting things with the scorch shot like double axtinguisher combos which are the coolest parts of the weapon imo, much cooler than the splash part.. I think removing the mini crits and decreasing the afterburn damage could help help a lot with making the scorch shot less annoying whilst still keeping its more interesting combos in place. Maybe even making it so that the splash damage effect doesn't trigger unless the flare bounces in the first place, making it worse for spamming but work just as well as a combo flare. (along with making it not charge the phlog.) Also, scorch shot jumps give so little distance that I don't think it's a worthwhile trade-off at all. That's why people don't have the same opinion with the gunboats, because there's almost no jump you can't do with gunboats that you can do with stock, compared to scorch shot and detonator.

[@travisjones3120]

As someone who exclusively plays combo pyro, I almost always pick the detonator or flare gun, because they are the most practical for the situation. Detonator is for closing the distance so that I can finish off with my axetinguisher, and the flare gun is for safer burst damage from outside of melee range. I would say that the two are not only sidegrades of each other, but sidegrades of the stock shotgun for pyro.

[@LEDs]

I agree. I only use the shotgun if there are a lot of pyros on the other team, or if I wanna switch things up

[@travisjones3120]

@@LEDs I also think that the shotgun is a good weapon for pyro, especially when dealing with others. However, from my own experience flare punching or using the axe works better for me than the shotgun, as it can be faster and more stylish. Also it kinda surprises and scares the other pyros without me having to go change my load out.

[@LEDs]

@@travisjones3120 Flare guns have the long-range capabilities that shotguns do not, which is why I almost always use the flare guns

[@lavalord96]

I can honestly say, I have NEVER been annoyed by the scorchshot on either end of the spectrum. Everyone around me says it's broken, and I almost peer pressured myself into accepting that, but everything the scorch shot can do, the detonator can do better; Like hitting big groups of enemies, because the scorch shot flare is just gonna bounce away, and sure it MAY hit another enemy, but from my experience this almost never happens.

[@patrykzukowski7471]

Yeah. Scorch Shot is such a non-threat to me. It does less damage than Detonator. Oh, but it can hit twice? Mate, I can hit people twice with a Detonator too. I just land another shot, because it's that easy to land it.

[@LEDs]

The fact is you’re going to be hitting more enemies and doing more DPS with the detonator, which is why I think it’s a better offensive (and defensive) weapon.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

scorch shot is annoying + easy to use, and does decent damage heres the thing, its so easy to use, that you can set people on fire with basically every shot, so your enemies will always be on fire

[@patrykzukowski7471]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Detonator is way easier

[@LEDs]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 If you have a height advantage, sure. But as soon as you have a height disadvantage, the detonator is a direct upgrade, no questions asked.

[@blikthepro972]

zesty jesus made one video and everyone just believed him

[@guilledf10]

I think the main problem with the scorch shot that makes it so much more annoying than the detonator is the fact that it requires so little investment to keep the whole enemy team on fire. You can shoot it every now and then and immediately change weapons and do other stuff (or at the very least be prepared to airblast a rocket away). With the detonator, the fact that you need to manually detonate means that you need to keep the detonator out and you probably need to keep looking at your target. Which means, you need to invest a lot more in order to keep spamming it

[@LEDs]

That is true. You really have to dedicate yourself with the detonator to use it properly.

[@jafsrob]

Ok so I’ve been using the detonator since I started playing tf2. I even have a strange one named “pocket blast jumper” with the description being “and pocket sniper”. Is it just me or is the delay between right clicking and detonating based on distance to flare?

[@huerfanoproducciones]

4:52 very nice

[@99999bomb]

Ive seen a phlog pyro using a detonator, its genuinely much more terrifying than scorch phlog because the detonator can hit through walls

[@LEDs]

The scorch shot is also easier to dodge

[@user-iu4jl6cg4n]

at least detonator makes you learn SOMETHING.... and dying to the detonator just feels more fair than SS(hit)

[@griffindedede3020]

The fact that the detonator out performed the scorch shot makes me think that all the hate that the scorch shot gets for being overpowered is misguided. People mainly hate fighting against it because of how it can lock you in place and then hit you again for another shot. I think that most people's annoyance for the weapon is giving them the idea that it's overpowered. This and the fact that there are tons of videos that then validate their opinion of it being too strong.

[@LEDs]

Yup. Confirmation bias and bandwagon fallacy.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

The SS hate is because of the phlog. But the phlog its hard to argue the phlog is OP against against decent players who are communicating. So piling on hate for the pholg makes you look like a bad player or one that does not like to work as a team. So people choose the SS to scape goat. Maybe the phlog should not exist or be radically changed but I hate that people pile on the SS when its not what they really care about. You could argue that the SS is kinda a bad weapon design in its own right. But thats not where the hate for it comes from.

[@TheWither129]

Its just cus its a brainless and easy weapon like the phlog. It doesnt take much to get good with and has really obnoxious effects like the knockback. The detonator and stock can perform way better due to higher damage and more flexibility but have higher skill floors that require more investment than just shooting at floors and walls and getting a direct hit here and there. Its too strong for how easy to use it is, is the problem.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

@@TheWither129 The detonator does not require much more skill than the SS. It does have a slightly higher skill floor. But we are talking about maybe 5 hours or something. At least for just spaming. And arguably the SS encourages going for direct hits to a greater degree raising its skill ceiling over the detonator.

[@TheWither129]

@@peterisawesomeplease i agree, the detonator isnt that much harder, again, the scorch shot’s skill floor is underground, you can just fire and forget, and you get a kill sometimes. Its like the huntsman’s “lucksman” joke except actually braindead and actively annoying to fight

[@lantan8022]

I totally agree with you. Also, detonator synergises great with a dragon's fury. I can ignite group of enemies from afar and when I get close to them, finish with combo shots from dragon's fury

[@IsM1ku]

i used it because its an unlock and unlocks are good right *equips old scotsman skullcutter on default demo*

[@Dolphin002]

Finally someone sees the detonator as something more than just a mobility tool! The detonator has been my secondary of choice for a while. Being able to hit enemies behind walls is huge, and add that to the fact that you don't need to aim and you have a good weapon. Flare jumping is just an extra thing that makes it even better.

[@lu7ky]

Very well done video, I don't feel the need to watch everyone else's videos due to the way you presented this with the quotes etc.

[@LEDs]

Thank you very much! I'm glad it was informative!

[@toastgoats7545]

Imho the scorch shot has this sort of "gunslinger syndrome" where everyone groupthinks that it's really op when in practice it's really kind of mediocre.

[@pikasalt]

As someone with well over 4000 hours on pyro, the detonator can be extremely deadly when used in combos. It allows you to consistently hit targets that are in the air, like a scout with the highground or a rocket jumping soldier. Paired with the dragons fury, it is great for initiating an attack before you're within range with the df. Another overlooked aspect of the detonator is that it can also be used to escape an enemy pyro's airblast

[@LEDs]

I'm surprised nobody else brought that up! Usually, scout mains get overconfident and rush you as a pyro because they think they can outmaneuver your flares. But with the detonator, they stand almost no chance!

[@yakovmarker4564]

You can also destroy stickies with detonator and scorch explosions.

[@WAtheAnum]

The Detonator is in the same level as with the Liberty launcher. People only think because of "raw damage" and that because they see something written in red and that it makes less damage, its automaticly bad - the datonator is a good sample as you said and i agree. Yes, the detonator does make less direct-hit damage, it only barely makes mini crit damage which is the same of a stock flare gun if you hit your target a second time BUT: overall, the detonator seems be best used around corners OR if you wanna do a hell load of damage OVER TIME. And that was always pyros thing anyway - why else do you think did they remoed the res shooter airblast combo from the pyro? Not only was it "unfair" but it basically changed pyros purpose overall. I like the detonator but as for how weak it at least "feels", they should give it still more "direct hit" damage. Sure not stock level but like the old detonator which made 30 on direct hit and 45 minicrit, if i remember that right. I still love that weapon overall.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

I don't think its a similar situation to the LL. The LL is not meta in HL. The detonator is. People call the LL underrated because it is a weapon worse than stock but not as much worse as people think. Calling the det underrated is like calling the stock rocket launcher underrated and is just as absurd. Post JI the det is by far the strongest secondary for pyro outside of the SS across a variety of skill levels, maps, and game types. There are some occasional exceptions where the shotguns and regular flair shine but they are rare. It also as this video points out not a crazy high skill floor weapon. It does not need buffed the shotguns and regular flair need buffed.

[@Zmeeed01]

With almost 400 hours on Pyro, yes, I agree. The Detonator is the best way to do any meaningful damage past the range of the general damage rampup, although my primary reason to use it is accessing flank routes. I trust my basic Flare Gun aim enough to do damage past the effective range, and I use the shotgun of choice in a more deathmatch-oriented scenario against actually competent players who aren't hampered much by visual particles and airblast disorientation so the direct, instant, and reliable damage is actually needed. The Scorch Shot is just very overrewarding and forgiving to use and it's still better against the cluster of enemies since you're very likely to score a direct hit against someone and the flare explosion will cover someone else as well very likely. The pseudo-stun is also quite valuable for preventing escape and evasion for a powerful melee follow-up. The two flare guns in the subject are actually the only way to make the Axtinguisher viable outside of very specific conditions.

[@DeskerDanniser]

The Scorch Shot Knockback Pyro VS The Chad Detonator Jumper Pyro

[@LEDs]

Perfect for landing on heads and getting those juicy taunt cancels 🍉

[@FlairTF2]

Jumping with the Detonator is still pretty cool tho! :D

[@LEDs]

It absolutely is! This video was more about explaining its damage capabilities since the jumping seems to be be thing that most people associate with it

[@randompurpleslime8963]

As someone who always uses the detonator heres my take on it What i often hear is that it only does mini crits and i cant understand why thats a negative of the detonator because yeah its not hour 90 damage crit it still does 60 damage and thats half of a light classes health its still good damage Another thing i like about it is i think its much better paired with the degreaser for its quick switch speed allowing easier jump flanks Along with being paired with the detonator you can use to get more afterburn damage to help finish off enemies or just make em take more damage along with the extra 60 damage making it much harder for them to escape especially since you dont need percise aim if there running away 3rd it makes killing scouts easier aswell due to them not being able to dodge the detonation 4th like LED said in hia video the ability to shoot behind walls is something not to be taking lightly it is especially good when u know a enemy is waiting for you behind a wall or corner 5th there is a ability that people seem to always forget and that is the detonators explosion being able to destroy stickies meaning you dont need to waste airblast on stickies and is much more efficient I think the general consensus is that the detonator is the flare byt jumpy and i think thays the wrong mindset the detonator should be treated more like soldiers rocket launcher a all round generalist weapon being able to have mobility,utility,offense and supportive roles rather than just being another rocket jumper

[@LEDs]

Good thoughts, thanks for the comment 😃

[@kamillatocha]

for me the Scorch Shot is just used to get the mmph meeter faster its very rare to kill someone with it alone

[@LEDs]

To each his own

[@rodakdev]

Does the detonator have a delay in detonation? I always fell like its off.

[@LEDs]

The detonation will be delayed the higher your ping is. Sometimes when I play with friends and I get queued in servers with high ping, I switch to the scorch shot or something else because timing the flares becomes more of a nuisance.

[@elfrede3060]

I think that the anoying thing of scorch shot isn't the blast, is the stunlock with the bouncing flare, because the stunlock gets out the bouncing flares weakness, the enemy has to stad still, so i think that's why everyone jumped on the scorshot and only focused the spam

[@LEDs]

I agree

[@chitosetakaki9385]

Personally what I love about the detonator is it makes me feel like a soldier being able to handle almost any situation scouts can no longer dodge flares due to detonation being manual Large groups from a distance can be lit by doing a manual detonation from above Snipers can't dodge the detonation Demos can't spam stickies due to det jumps existing Medics can die with a good detonator jump straight into the centre of their group Soldiers and other classes can no longer hide around a corner with the manual detonation It may do mini crits but still does good damage Hard to miss an shots with its detonation Invisible spies can be spy found easily with manual detonation All in all it viable in practicality any situation heck I'd even say the flare gun has less versatility than the detonator It's mobility may not be much compared to other forms of blast jumps but it's still enough to climb most areas where a demo or soldier could go but not a oyro leading to funny kills where a enemy panicks as there's a pyro in a area where they shouldn't be It's also useful for getting out of situations and rolling out of spawn if you have a medic who respawned aswell sometimes even being able to out run a medic now there may be quite a good bit of bias as I do use the detonator in most of my gameplay as pyro so if anyone else wants to give there take on the detonator then feel free to reply

[@LEDs]

Wonderful input

[@Pacemaker_fgc]

One thing I really liked in your analysis is the emphasis on chip damage. It’s a factor many players overlook but as someone who has played a ton of medic, few things (that don’t lead to my death) frustrate me more than having my teammates get hit by a flare or even a shotgun pellet to reset crit healing. I never really got comfortable with the detonator but the potential to do more chip than the scorch shot is very alluring. Detonator is my least played flare gun but this video has inspired me to give it another try. Cheers

[@LEDs]

Great comment!

[@boyslovegore]

Honestly, compared to the scorch shot, the detonator feels more fun and rewarding, and opens up a more fun way to play pyro. Recently have started using detonator more often and it is really fun

[@LEDs]

I’m glad you’re enjoying it!

[@user-cx9un9fs7q]

Vorobey tested out which he could get phlog meter full fastest with the scorch shot and detonator. The results were that he got detonator charge first. Use the detonator it’s basically the scorch shot but better if you can aim.

[@himynamewaz7507]

Your honor. Shotgun pyro. End of discussion. But nah. All seriousness. Best 3 secondaries. 3:detonator 2:flare gun 1:shotgun

[@LEDs]

I respect that

[@RashadGarcia]

I’ll definitely take your point, I think it would be really fun to start flare jumping around and flanking other classes, but it will take some time and precision to nail that explosion. Anyway good video!

[@LEDs]

Thank you! I promise you it won’t take too much time to learn

[@woofcat2056]

I usually stick to the stock flare gun. Spamming flares from a distance might be effective but I just find it kinda boring.

[@LEDs]

That’s fair.

[@keecko8169]

the sole and only reason the detonater does more damage is because it hits more people, in every situation where its a single person and they can be directly hit, the scorch shot will do more damage, because of the rather forgiving explosion radius.

[@yourcool7489]

I mostly agree with what you said and already use the detonator in the ways you explained. Im still not sure which one is better though, I feel like whenever your in the right opportunities to use the scorch shot (no places to det jump, high ground, choke points, etc) it is really fucking good. I guess it just comes down to a situation type thing

[@MrDuck-vn2fs]

I mean this in the nicest way possible, this video, with the way you talk and the background music, gives me Peanuts TV specials vibes.

[@LEDs]

Thank you

[@moronribbons5774]

Oh my GOD l love the detonator, I've just been wanting to say that. I really want to get a better special version than just the killstreaked one I have too. It's absolutely a fun weapon to play around with. On its own its not TOO great for damaging enemies - flare is better for up close combos, scorch is better for spamming single or multiple at a distance (its great for people you don't like!) but when you've you've a game where you don't need to worry about constantly putting a lot out with maximal assurance the detonator is amazing. Trained timing still allows you to keep people alight and you can get good damage over time with it, but once you've practiced jumping around with it you can really go nuts. Hopping into enemies faces, bouncing over someone to confuse them, bursting it on a group by deliberately avoiding a direct hit, airblast some enemies you don't like backwards and quickly bounce away with a shot, it's such a thrilling flare gun to use and can really bring you into your favorite ranges to engage people from. And it just lets all hell loose with the phlog, but that's its own discussion to have. It isn't perfect all of the time and is weakest in tight areas since it really just doesn't work as great even from practiced gameplay, but I absolutely have a fun time using it to hop at people and throw them off. Honorable mention - the manmelter's good too. Not really worth using over other flare guns in most cases unfortunately, but I still use it on phlog sometimes (I'd probably use it with backburner too if I really cared to use that much, due to airblast cost, though it's also good to counter a scorch-happy asshole on the enemy team) and it can certainly do well. The increased shot speed isn't hard to adjust to and really helps shots land once you do, and while follow ups don't get a bonus that's still another 30 on top of resetting the burn time - most light classes will need healing by then. And nothing has quite the unique sort of accomplished feeling as blasting a crit shot into a sniper, and he dies a few seconds later because no heals.

[@Caseyuptobat]

As a pyro main, I deeply despise people who get their opinions directly from youtubers. Thank you for citing credible sources on the analysis.

[@LEDs]

I don’t know if this is sarcastic considering I got my comparison data from Vorobey, but most of my arguments are from personal experience or simple facts about the weapon that KZbinrs in the consensus never considered.

[@Caseyuptobat]

@@LEDs you obtained quantifiable data from a reputable source, and then compared that data with your own experience for verification, as opposed to zesty or fish fans who take their boys unquantifiable opinions at their word and just parrot hot takes into the ground. No sarcasm here, friend.

[@LEDs]

@@Caseyuptobat I see now, thank you! I look forward to seeing more comments from you.

[@dragonfell5078]

As a Dragon's Fury Pyro main, the Detonator is extremely useful for me. The jumping is an obvious win, the airburst feature hits me more shots than the Scorch Shot and overall it's a great weapon that I've adapted to using. The airburst feature should not be underestimated, it's been an excellent tool for lighting enemies for the Dragon's Fury, harassing enemies at a distance and finishing wounded enemies. Overall I think it's the best for close range since you can detonate it really close to yourself. Can always hit a scout with this thing.

[@DK-xb7re]

So youre a dragon fury main so do you have any tips for the random flash everytime i fire the gun?

[@ScrumpeyBros]

As a Medic main, I instead ditched the Scorch Shot for the Flare Gun since it complements my crossbow aim.

[@ChiisaiRamen]

I just recently got back to TF2 and i still like to stick to my flare gun even if airblast is nerfed or use shotgun/panic attack because those options are honestly more powerful But honestly the more people complain the more i want to use the scorch shot because it has a hidden stat of applying salt to the opponent. People who are salty play a lot worse.

[@camo6465]

Other players: “this flare gun is better than this flare gun because XYZ” Meanwhile, me in the corner: * hides Panic Attack behind my back because I can’t aim projectiles to save my life *

[@LEDs]

I always give the panic attack a try because other people say it's a good weapon, but I can't get around to liking it. I must be panic-attack-phobic

[@Kacpa2]

Manelter soucks so much to use because it has no reload animation and has a weird projectile. Cow manngler has a reload animation, so does bison. Having it so stupidly static is what makes the reload time sp much more painful and awful to time. It woldnt be hated and avoided if it has basic courtesy of reload animation and same reload time and projectile visual properties to other flare guns.

[@gulfgiggleanimations4472]

It’s funny how the detonator is treated like this thing that’s bad for spam, but good for flanking and getting into close range fights, when it’s actually really good at spam and lacks any of the upsides that the rest of pyro’s secondaries have that make them better for direct combat, like scorch shot double hits. If you’re using the detonator as a mobility tool and nothing more then you might as well just be using the thermal thruster.

[@LEDs]

Well put.

[@calebrands4912]

To be honest, I think I use the detonator a lot more for combat than mobility.

[@The_D_ray]

Funnily enough, I rarely use the Detonator's jumping thingy. I almost always use it to harass people that are too far (Snipers) and spam behind cover. The jump is useful and all that, but sometimes doesn't feel worth to me because how much damage it takes (unless I'm using the Backscratcher).

[@LEDs]

It's great when people are trying to run away from you and you have phlog crits

[@The_D_ray]

@@LEDs Yeah... but I use the Dragon's Fury. I don't want to stay close to enemies, I want to stay as far as possible. That's why I harass them at long range, so THEY'll close the distance in order to stop me, and so I won't be forced to do the other way around.

[@coco_rthritis6462]

I'm a diehard stock flare gun and flamethrower enjoyer. I might try out the detonator though cause you can't paint the flare gun (so stupid why did they do that?).

[@LEDs]

At least there's a festive flare gun

[@masterdoge17]

Nice vid, reminds me an english project with how well you used quotes and the flow of the arguments, points, and rebuttals. Not a diss but a compliment (ig if that makes any sense)

[@LEDs]

Thank you! I did do a lot of organizing and editing for the script and it did take me back to when I had to create outlines for my English essays

[@junkmail103]

My only gripe with the detonator is that while I enjoy the weapon, it only makes me wish there was a flare gun focused around flare jumping with slightly better damage.

[@mariustan9275]

I don't gt what you mean.

[@lmquan082]

Used to be my least used weapon to become my most favorite weapon because it's so fun. Especially satisfying when you accurately detonate the flare getting kills after firing and looking else where, killing someone else.

[@TF2Starlight]

i never use the detonator bc my depth perception is my biggest weakness in fps games. i might practice the detonator more and see. and I'm not sure if vorobeys video is good evidence, there are too many variables to consider to make the experiment used as evidence, ex. different team members, different classes for both teams, which affects your map control, where you are in the map prior to how ur team is doing, if a team has a medic, etc

[@LEDs]

You’re right: From a scientific perspective, it’s terrible evidence. It was just the only evidence I could find, which is why I included it. (Totally not selection bias 😉)

[@labrat_09]

The “The detonator is a flanking weapon” idea isn’t not true, but it says the det. is only a flanking weapon but they always forget the point of the harassment potential of long range chip damage which the detonator is good at and also the fact that both the flare gun and detonator can be used as a finisher

[@alonzodrake6461]

Not gonna lie i'm so used to the detonators manual controlled explosion, that I can hit anyone behind cover at any angle which the scorch shot can't cover. I accidentally made someone use it in high tower when I was using it to get around the map and hitting everyone behind cover it has a lot of pretty good uses which if someone is good at it they can be annoyingly good with it.

[@LEDs]

I love when somebody runs behind cover and thinks their safe and you shoot over with the detonator and send them in a panic

[@hukubis]

Honestly, even if scorchshot never had a splash damage, as a defence Pyro I would still used it over others. Forcing a spy that is about to stab your teammate into stunlock from acros the map, or launching a burning enemy player into the stratosphere after you airblasted them and used scorch as finisher is way more fun for me.

[@LEDs]

Having fun is what matters most after all!

[@Queek_Headtaker]

Detonator is pretty cool and I used to use it quite a lot, but dear god, that whistling firework firing sound is so damn annoying and probably is the main reason I switched to using shotgun/scorch shot.

[@LEDs]

Some people like it, but I get your POV and even sort of feel the same way. I wonder if it's possible to replace the sound with something else.

[@appliedatoms7066]

For a video so focused on rationality, it's a shame so much of it seems... a bit unbalanced in its own way. While the "consensus" is somewhat supported by the sources given -- I haven't watched all of those videos so I can't claim they're missing context -- the consensus I had always heard was a little different, and I think it's more accurate: the detonator is by no means bad, and isn't "lacking off/def capabilities," but in each of the things that matter about a weapon it is outclassed by one of the other flares. In ease of use it is absolutely outclassed by the scorch shot no contest and in burst damage and as a finisher it is outclassed by the flare gun. Since most people either want a weapon they can autopilot with or a super satisfying source of burst damage, unless you want a middle ground you should just use the one best suited to you. I would wager this is why so many of the sources cited leaned into the flanking aspect of it, since that's the one thing it does that absolutely outclasses everything else. I really do think that in the push to make this weapon seem unquestionably better, some corners were cut with those examples. Yes there are instances where the detonator lets you set someone on fire in a way the scorch shot would not, but that does not mean that you "don't even have to be accurate" -- you still have to time the detonation. As far as I'm concerned, it's actually easier to land a center-of-mass flare than it is to time detonations, since the entire game is training you to aim at the bad guys while the detonator requires an entirely different skill. Additionally, the detonator tends to lead to tunnel vision for me, since unless I'm memorizing where the target is I need to keep looking at the target after I shoot to make sure I detonate at the right time. Neither of the other main flare guns have that problem, since in the case of both you're aiming for center of mass, pulling the trigger, and waiting for the hitsound, and you can do that while moving on to your next target in the firefight.

[@ethanhayes7038]

The issue as I see it is that the Detonator's mobility options encourage agressive roamer gameplay while its offensive capabilities are best suited to clustered group fights. People that use it for the mobility such as myself don't often find themselves in situations where it can deal tons of damage. Basically its two functions are at odds with each other such that people can only make the most of one or the other.

[@philippinecircularflag2023]

I saw a Pyro effectively use it in Highlander and I wanted to emulate that play style. It's now my favorite flare gun!

[@LEDs]

It’s my favorite too!

[@philippinecircularflag2023]

@@LEDs kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWHdf6yJiN6GmMU this highlander comp is the vid

[@thehatmaster1390]

Very interesting. I admit, I've always interesting and cool that you can detonate an attack on the spot as Pyro but the part that REALLY got me was you demonstrating how big the detonation range really was! I admit, you got me considering creating a new loadout! I'll always stick to my tried and true Flare Gun, though. I love critical hits upon flaming enemies and the burst DPS you get as a reward for great aim. But to be honest, I truly use it... *CRITICAL HIT!* Scout: *AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!* *CRITICAL HIT!* Sniper: *GUUUAAARRRUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!* *CRITICAL HIT!* Spy: *UrrrraaAAAAAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!* ...To hear those beautiful sounds.

[@LEDs]

Lol! Thanks for this comment! 😛

[@arsonexc]

I started using the detonator just recently and was honestly so fun to use. It gives me help when fighting enemies that have the high ground like soldiers or scouts on the mid-bridge on cp_process. In addition using it to detonator jump onto medics, snipers, or the entire enemy team when ubered is so incredibly helpful in closing that small yet big distance cuz they just ping pong you around. With how powerful I find the weapon I honestly look at the scorch shot as a downgrade at this point.

[@Fordthrower4000]

as someone who uses the shotguns, i see this as an absolute win

[@glaze4629]

I still use the flare gun to this day, getting crits with it's really fun to me

[@LEDs]

I like to use it when my teammates use the detonator or scorch shot. Free crits

[@ludwigiapilosa508]

Pirateer makes good pyro videos. His view of it is more favorable than the ones you mentioned. If I'm running the Phlog or Dragon's Fury, I'm almost always using the Manmelter. It's incredibly useful for recovering health and extinguishing your teammates. And you earn tons of easy crits in the process. It takes some getting used to the faster projectile speed but once you do, it's amazing. Nailing a sniper with a crit flare from a mile away is amazing. I only don't use it if there's a ton of demo spam or there isn't a pyro on the other team (rarely).

[@LEDs]

With my luck, if I equip the manmelter, all of the enemy pyros change to something else lol

[@firetroop2775]

I used to use Is the Scorch shot, And when I did I was having fun with it it it was satisfying to one shot light classes sometimes But then it was made apparent that the shitshot is incredibly annoying to fight against so that I just switched to the detonator

[@ArtekGeneral]

I will never use detonator until they at least double the explosion range, or half the projectile speed. Timing the explosions on the thing is absolutely miserable. It feels like the damn thing explodes with half-a-second delay after i press the button. I couldn't hit anyone with the explosion if my life depended on it - far more often i either explode it 5 meters before the enemy, or it hits the floor and disappears. I have no idea where projectile is, i have no depth perception to speak of and attempting to practice it to get a "feeling" of it went absolutely nowhere. For me using Detonator is about as effective as using the Gas passer - i basically have no secondary.

[@netnick7063]

i thought this was common knowledge, to call it a "situational jumpy weapon" couldn't be more of an understatement, goes to show you really can't trust everything you hear online, ever if it's from people you like.

[@LEDs]

Well put.

[@TrexVicious]

Detonator with phlog is way better than scorch shot. The speed it can give you lets you catch up to enemies that are escaping. It also lets you escape way easier in comparison to the scorch shot. However, scorch shot is better than the detonator when it comes to weapons like the dragons fury. Detonator overall is better for the reasons you mentioned in this video.

[@LEDs]

Thanks for the comment! There aren't many better feelings than seeing an enemy trying to run away from you after you've activated your mmmph, and you detonator jump to catch up and finish him off.

[@mariustan9275]

But many people use the Scorch shot because it takes a lot less brainpower

[@Orang3Eric]

To this day I think using the Detonator is what separates the man from the boys

[@LEDs]

💪

[@ME0WMERE]

this basically solidifed my opinion that the scorch shot is a crutch ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@mr.slappii513]

Detonator is good. In fact the the Panic attack and the detonator are my two most used secondaries as pyro. Also I think it is possible to hit an enemy twice with the detonator as well. I've come across a couple scenarios where my Detonator will mini-crit a target that isn't on fire. So I've come to the conclusion that if you have tick perfect timing, you can detonate the flare so close to an enemy that the flare will hit the enemy while also detonating. But I'm not completely sure.

[@LEDs]

Hmm, interesting

[@tankthomus]

I love the video, and the music! Classic 30s tunes :)

[@LEDs]

Thank you 🙂

[@goat3029]

I've been using the detonator for years, especially on the hightower server I always play on I showed people how strong it is At first everyone disagreed and just shrugged it off but the more they died to it the more aware they became It became so annoying that someone gifted me a strange detonator with the description ''hate me''