The BEST Bow You CAN'T BUY

[@TradArcherDownunder]

You have stumbled on old Egyptian and Assyrian bow design that has been around for thousand years. Known to be fast, stable, long drawing, and accurate. Congratulations on westernising the design.

[@rex8255]

Beat me to it!🙂

[@caseysmith544]

Others have done his before like Bear in Kodiak Magnum a 52 inch/132 cm or in his Magnum 48, a 48 inch/192 cm bow only where these bows get unwieldly being a modern recurve limb design on an Egyptian like shape and how small the smallest bow is. Another is Old Mountain Archery/Traditional Only by 3 Rivers, having a bow like this, Mesa in 60 inch/152.5 cm or 64 inch/162.5 cm designs and a Mesa II. The problem is Mesa II was made so fast/stiff using carbon fiber between limbs and fiberglass as well as and Short working limb design being only 60 inches/152.4 cm so nobody could use bow as limbs broke becuse of how stiff limbs are on model. as a bow needs for speed, you get from an archer who repaired model on KZbin. So newer model Mesa II as of 2022--2023 was no longer sold by 3 rivers as a Traditional Only in 2024 and might be discontinued by Old Mountain Archery even if page for bow sold is on website is still up just none in inventory and a request inventory. I think, currently Old Mountain Archery is making most of inventory for 3 Rivers where 3 Rivers is slapping Traditional Only on models as of sometime in 2023 like is being done on a PSE/Samick Nighthawk being sold as a Cairn model. What is new about model here by Shatterproof Krammer Ammons is a takedown version, few if any companies/bowyers make even in an ILF riser.

[@JTin-p3k]

​@@caseysmith544so Kramer's is the best? I agree.

[@caseysmith544]

@@JTin-p3k Depends on what you want from a bow, yes both bows his Bones and now takedown Moutain Bow are some of best in speed and smoothness true R&D bows on the market.

[@ehisey]

Saw that silhouette too.

[@musikSkool]

The smoothness is because the direction of the force. If the force of the limbs is primarily straight forward, then it will not be smooth, if the momentum of the limbs it primarily upward or downward, the forces cancel out and very little is left to vibrate your hand. It is part of the reason why compound bows fire so smoothly, because their momentum is directed completely upward and downward, instead of partly forward like normal bows. (I really hope you see this comment, it took me years to figure this out.) Edit: To calculate this find the location of the limbs fully drawn, and then at rest. Take the distance the tips move forward and divide it by the distance they move upward or downward, smaller is better. A perfectly flat longbow will go a long distance forward and almost no distance upward/downward. A compound bow will go almost no distance forward, and quite a bit more distance upward/downward. The other reason why compound bows are so smooth is because the mechanical advantage of the pulley system means the limbs have very little movement in the first place, therefore less vibration.

[@graywolf3456]

🐺 Whoa man reading your comment made my head hurt I thought I was back in school and the history teacher making me read from the history book oh what bad bad memories come flooding back lol I'm going to leave all the tech stuff to the geeks and just be happy that I can hit the target well some time with the recurve bow I got now if I miss spell any words it's not my fault it's the public school i went to fault lol 🇨🇱 🦅

[@musthaveblues]

Kramer, one of the best attitudes and personalities in the bow business. Thanks

[@monokheros5373]

DING DING DING thank you ! that is why those of us that use THUMB DRAW love no/low shelf designs on the riser ! Thank YOU!

[@jesselattin174]

We will be patient. It's fun to watch the evaluation

[@FruitJuice92]

Kramer and company you are doing a great job and it's not everyone who would share such a wide knowldge with the community, so thanks a lot for doing this.

[@markoneil6562]

I love your channel man, I stumbled onto it randomly about 2 months ago and I've made 3 bows so far. 2 Oak long bows and a maple long bow. I'm waiting on my shatterproof string to finish the maple bow. Should be here Monday. But you gave me an awesome new hobby, and turns out, I'm pretty good at it.

[@davidcarpenter5274]

Yeah, this guy's the best. He showed me which bows to get . Bought a bow string from him. He taught me how to make bow strings. I'm really satisfied , that I can maintain my old school. Traditional bOws , love this guy.

[@mervynpatterson7164]

Your brace height theory makes a lot of sense.i shoot 72” English D section bow which are generally low braced,,which keeps the string in contact with the arrow for longer.

[@caseysmith544]

Yes, I have an old Fiberglass Model of dual sided longbow a 36 pound model made from 1961--1979 from Actionrod by Actionbow 8200 and model has one of lowest brace heights of any shelf production model bow at 4 inches/10 cm and due to a low brace height bow is able for short draw archers get a 25 inch/63.5 cm draw. his is a big why smaller mainly younger teen archers would use bow model, smaller kids getting a 28/29 pound bow, why model is used up on 40--46 pounds and on lower side for staring out.

[@Helmbowman]

The solution for riser strength might be to glue laminations not straight but into curve that follows riser shape, btw. Amazing bow!

[@TakalBrothers]

Love these videos, at the end of it you have gained not only entertainment but actual knowledge. Thank you.

[@Eric-gi9kg]

The pure excitement that you bring to archery is intoxicating. Geeking out.. Details of the Why are pure enjoyment. Though I am not active in archery at this time, I do hope that I can get back into it. Truly enjoyed the dissapline and challenge to be accurate.

[@Bhartrampf]

Experimentation is a great process, as someone with a long draw, shooting bows that stack has always been a issue. Over the years I have changed from a behind the jaw anchor to the corner of the mouth. Not as accurate for me, but a lot easier to find bows. A custom bow has been out of my reach and a back injury make finding someone to build one for me really tough. I really like where you are going with this bow, I shoot instinctively and split fingers. Can't wait for you to get the take down on line.

[@billylee2312]

I’m just getting into traditional archery. This bow is what I think I want. That is a good looking bow

[@JeffreyStedfast]

Thanks for this video! I think this video has answered a bunch of questions I've had about bow design. This makes me even MORE interested in bow making and designing my own bows to play and learn!

[@larrygratz7695]

You've come a long, long way from the early days of will it bow.

[@SWINGERINTO]

I want both!! Will it bow was as much fun as this!

[@PiFF_TiNG]

The Will it bow series is elite what do you mean 😂😂

[@NDFlyFisher]

Fascinating! I shoot 68” longbows. I have a 30 1/4” draw length. My bows are smooth. This bow looks like something that would work well for me.

[@caseysmith544]

However, for medieval English or similar European non flat limb bows, people need a longer bow around 68--72 inches even if using laminates/fiberglass laminates, unless bow is only made of fiberglass or fiberglass like resin as fiberglass will be so flexible taking more shock.

[@G0rilla216]

Love your content. Would be neat to see the mountain bow’s dimensions compared to the black hunter longbow and the differences in their performance at the same draw weight.

[@hankvana2149]

Thanks Kramer! As a (retired) designer by trade I like your approach to developing a new product. Your videos are a great combination of content and entertainment - please stick with this format! As you know, the other side of "WHY NOT" is "WHAT IF" ...along with the game/exercise of sanitizing the idea against the laws of physics. Fun stuff! That bow is very interesting, would love to shoot one. I'm into self-bows where the challenge is getting the best bow possible out of a particular stave. Cheers!

[@Blxz]

I haven't shot a bow since BC (before covid). But this nice little video might have just inspired me to go out and stretch out those muscles again.

[@josegabrielcastillo5504]

When you asked if you were following the scientific method, my answer is yes, you answer your questions through the process of experimentation and eliminitation. Its a very good way to find answers to life.

[@meganlamb3101]

We love it, you can just send them ahead of us and we will pick them up when we get to the property. Thank you and God bless.

[@josegabrielcastillo5504]

Loved your will it bow series, but love this even more.

[@filipbertilsson2240]

Oh man, Kramer! It was the most informative and interesting video ever. You are so good in analysis things. I like to do it too! Everything always matters! I just loved the whole thing. Thank you for sharing you knowledge, not everyone does it but I see you burning with your passion for bow making! All good luck to you, your family and the whole company! God bless! Greetings from Sweden!

[@scousewillo62]

Great vid, lots of info. Would love to get back into archery but my arthritis prevents it. I do however still love to watch your videos as your enthusiasm shines through.

[@james-gang]

Whow!! That's angular bow research at its best! Real stuff

[@kiktkikt2863]

You are incredible that’s all I can say. Always learning so much

[@rontz]

While you‘re saying the ad was a bit soulless, I was about to type how good the ad is and that it really makes me want to buy the bow :D

[@whodoyouthinkiam210]

Ill be taking at 1 3/4" gap in my next self bow build and test, thanks!

[@philliplee1193]

That is a hot rod looking bow, Kramer. It’s at the stage Les Paul & his log were, without the styling flair that it should have, with your very high performing design. There could be more riser material than is really necessary, just to accomplish a styling home run. It deserves it!

[@jsd8981]

Excellent video as allways, very in depth and very informative very well exsplaned, I learned a lot just with this one video,a big thank you...

[@mattcleveland8759]

Is everything ok? Hope all is well. Can’t wait for the next video

[@Ryan-hw3xp]

Best Video on KZbin!! Thank you

[@charlesdudley5800]

We will have to patiently wait. I definitely want the take down. And a 2nd Bones Bow at 40lb.

[@narong1204]

Whoa that was awesome, how did he know I was zoning out and started to scroll other videos. “What he’s trying to say is..”

[@jimbefit3073]

I'm impressed! 😊

[@jasonthulen]

Another GREAT video. Lots of information. Keep them coming.👍

[@Mark--Todd]

Really very nice. And incredibly well explained

[@gregtessmer5310]

When will this bow be for sale and how much?

[@ricoaioa]

There is a lot of information in this video. Really interesting

[@sprk11]

awesome vid. Now what if someone like me who prefers a higher grip will you be building something with us in mind? I have had a number of work related wrist injuries which makes it difficult/uncomfortable to push my palm forward . I have built a couple risers with a grip that almost feels like having a tennis ball in your hand in order to get that comfortable natural hand placement .

[@fulcrum789]

I hope I can afford the MTN Bow when it comes out.

[@archery.customs]

Around 16 minutes you hit my favorite subject... draw force curve 😃 it's like your making a compound bow without the cams 👌 I would love to see the draw force of your bow on a graph.

[@caseysmith544]

He is making a modern lever bow minus the cams/wheels and cable design.

[@thomashoran8072]

You going full nerd in this video hurt my brain keeping up with you. Great job as always.

[@Eric-gi9kg]

My understanding and education on draw length... On a compound type, the max draw length is physically engineered into the bow. Limiting your draw. Whereas, on a traditional.. you can draw beyond your natural 'wall'. That said.. I have learned and taught that everyone has a natural 'Wall'.. just need to find it and keep it every time you draw... whether a compound or traditional.

[@DerekWoolverton]

The local lumbermill sells kiln scraps of all different species for pennies, including hickory, oak and walnut. Bet hickory would make a nice heavy riser, maybe with something lighter colored in the middle for contrast.

[@Andi_AMA_Guitars]

Great Video! I only missed e view words about the thickness tapering of the limbs core. My experience as a bow builder is, that you get signifikant more speed, when the core is tapert more. It kind of chanches the working length of the limbs, also the moving mass gets less.

[@Tradbow85]

I really enjoy the bow nerd talk lol. Love hearing cause and effect

[@pud5035]

mountain bow "experience the peak" w the bows handle behind it lookin liike mountains

[@matthewyu3531]

Thank you very much, you did great for the bows you have made. Would you like to apply your skills to horse bows, for example, Tatar bow?

[@nikkomartin9915]

I was thinking the same thing after i saw indian bamboo archery they have same concept but thanks for this explanation now i know my instinct is correct thank you sir

[@gregoryblair9810]

Just bought a riser that has no fittings other than mount for plunger? It has almost the identical shape as yours. I have been trying to figure out how to mount the limbs. Going with SAS limbs. Thanks for showing your take on it. Now to decide wether to use elevated or off the shelf like yours.

[@ar15gator]

Nice going! 👏🏻💥💯

[@vandar42]

I really miss " Will it Bow " brother 😎🇨🇦

[@LionAstrology]

Seeing you from the start..impressive and that mountain bow is sick.. Aragorn 2024.😂

[@MrRourk]

You should review the Metbow Turkish

[@caseysmith544]

On accuracy, look at some videos on KZbin of modern Great Plains Traditional Archery Company channel from a small town just outside Kansas City 10--20 miles for modern brand and they will say a large sight window and curved side cut to center or just past will help in tuning bows. Two people of Brand also say on accuracy for bows using a nearly on shelf grip is best, especially on longbow or R&D and on a recurve a no more than 3/4--1 inch grip from shelf is best but a lesser will be even better. Also Brand above is one of few brands willing to make 2 youth models both one piece for adults/teens in legal hunting weights where a Waiver is not needed or an archer can find in left hand/left eye dominate unlike some models from China where brands like Junxing and a few others, AMS assumes all archers are right eye dominate for all shelfed bows unless a rare dual shelf model a 28 pound at 28 inch draw or a few rare shoot though duel sided models mainly in compound as some dual sided compound are not a universal grip.

[@PhxStark12]

i can not wait to buy this new bow.

[@billthorton6388]

I wonder if you could make a fully adjustable bow that you could either change, extend or retract parts? I doubt it would be very usable or durable but you could test theories.

[@paulweiterer6630]

You just kind of reinvented Bodniks Shew Bow. Short riser, narrow limbs, the grip, the geometry. Those are very fast and well liked by many. Probably less smoth due to being very short. Have a look at them

[@relleknoj]

Thank you.

[@rebelrye]

Very intriguing bow Kramer. I' m on the list so please let me know if and when such a bow is available.

[@joemarrier44]

Nice video!!! Will you consider a longer riser with a larger sight window?

[@stevenielson3875]

Is it possible to make a bow for cross-eyed dominance? Right-handed left eye dominate, or left- handed right eye dominate.

[@caseysmith544]

I shoot Split Finger going higher up in anchor using top finger ca and my nock is under arrow, sometimes 2 so I need less pressure. I can change my split so I am 2 over or 2 under where 2 under is classic only going 2 over if arrow feathers are taller and just go more like people who are using a corner of mouth/specific tooth since I used to use as my anchor for a long time until I had an all fiberglass Ben Person 62 inch bow where I needed a corner of jaw anchor.

[@lexhester4565]

Love the design! I went back a few months and watched your awesome bow shape comparison. All this needing out over bow physics has me wondering…how much of the speed and stability come from the angle the limb tip moves on the x/y axis in relation to the length of limb tip travel? It seems finding this perfect relationship will push the string forward quickly while the opposing limb direction makes it stable and smooth. Any thoughts?

[@worldender1972]

today i was at a ranch estate sale. i found an old recurve bow. it says ( dearslayer) on the side i can make out a name on the side ben parsons i believe. it’s made of osage orange. i believe this is a very old bow. the arrow rest is leather and like a brush. would you like to refurbish this bow on your channel put a string on it.

[@kenwebster5053]

Can you curve the riser laminate to follow the risers' bent shape? I think this would avoid the splitting the riser when your draw.

[@penguin36x]

Have you come across the traditional bowyers Bible series of books? They definitely discuss a lot of the things you've come across.

[@JMSchomburg]

Thank you! Could the accuracy be due to the arrow being released before any vibration occurs?

[@johnshort4421]

So Kramer, when can I put down a down payment on a Mountain Bow, love it!

[@Finnja76]

Have you ever tried making a takedown bow with siyahs?

[@williammorrin7933]

I got a question, if you have longer arms do you need longer arrows?

[@Arwndr]

223 fps with 43 lbs, what weight of arrow was? And with what draw length?

[@willborn66]

Great and a nice bow👍🏻💯%

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Tips curve forward... That makes it a recurve bow...

[@timmclaughlin6214]

Question. Is this bow able to be crafted for someone with a 32" draw?

[@ErikKline-b5i]

Make the riser out of aluminum?

[@Eric-gi9kg]

Your method of 'Why Not' is a sound one. I, too, have the same method when it comes to my garden. Ask the question... experiment... learn the answer. Experiment again changing one variable... again and again until you find the sweet spot.

[@wildhoser]

So did moving the arrow shelf up half an inch change mean you had to change the tiller relation from top limb to bottom limb?

[@duasobA]

Does it work very well for thumb draw and khatra style?

[@TIG2MAN0]

Hey sir, I love your videos and I love making things. Does anyone know how to make a mongolian style composit bow using synthetic materials? I love this type of bow. However they take like 1 year to build and since Im new to this it would take 1 year to see if it breaks/delaminates and thats a lot of time. I heard if you use synthetic materials you can build much faster, so get more experiance faster and build better. What materials would you use for backing,belly,glue, and wood core? What would the process be like? Thanks Mark

[@dee-n1cearchery805]

When it’s going to be for sell ?

[@PanzerTheTortoise]

What if on your riser lamination, you added a couple strips of carbon fiber?

[@Rob.N771]

Eygptian triangle bow.....

[@Gabriel.-_-.]

You should sell the plans with some lessons. And include calculations so users can customize it for their shooting style (I shoot fixed gap, or trying to), draw length, draw weight...

[@SWINGERINTO]

How much time does it take to set up all of these angles, sync audio, and cut all of this together?? ALSO, Kramer, take my money! I want that mountain bow!!

[@antiHUMANDesigns]

I suspect that a good way to find an optimal bow design is by using an evolutionary algorithm. Let the shape of a bow evolve within a simulation.

[@lthorsemanship8150]

Speed at 10gpp?

[@SeanJorgenson-vy8nw]

How much my friend. I want to buy Sir!

[@ronsierdsma3172]

Fred bear is looking down on you and smiling krammer🏹

[@darylbreithaupt686]

Bow speed seems conceptually easy to quantify...meters/second or feet per second. how does one quantify or describe Smoothness? Also i'm curious if there is a relationship between either attribute of Speed or Smoothness and the area formed between the bow and the string.

[@mrnice752]

Measure poundage gained per inch drawn on a draw board or tillering tree, plot the whole draw cycle. The area under the line on the graph is your stored energy. You can plot the change per inch to make a "smoothness" graph, less gain per inch feels "smoother". I'm not sure what you are asking with your second question, so can't help you there.

[@rex8255]

I've seen bows that look a lot like that ( just looked it up, ancient Egypt) that look a lot like that.

[@KhalifaPnC]

you should experiment with afew last civilizations which use bow as main war item just before gun/firearm are invented.. for what i know its turkish , but u can search

[@milan425]

Man, that rant at 11:11, do you realize you're following same principles Nikola Tesla did?

[@redlemur6073]

😂get on with it!😂😂 IWANT 1

[@matthewyu3531]

What is your arrow weight for speed test?

[@richardbauer2045]

M Really good video. Rick

[@RT-wq8bd]

Could someone list the make and specs of this bow. No audio here today. I did see 62 AMO on the limb.

[@wildhoser]

I think it was 43 lbs and he said up to 230fps

[@bradboustead1682]

Are you able to turn on your closed cationing?

[@pepegya5168]

someone pair this guy with the bearded bowyer in the woods that strive for the perfect arrow weight and spine. then you get the bentley of bows