the bison cannot be fired on ramps (a bug with the bison, wrap assassin, dragon’s fury & pomson)

[@shounic]

edit: some poop eater filed a (false) copyright claim on this video for the music. the whole system is fucked and there's no point fighting it. youtube has a new option to use AI to only remove the bits of detected music and only leave the voice, so that's what some parts of the video have. sorry if some of the video is weird & ty for understanding o7 this video is officially just history as of dec 17th 2021 www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=101361 www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=101867 www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=102740

[@Nimta]

finally I can get spammed from the ramps in peace

[@somerandomguyintheinternet]

About darn time, the flava continues living on!

[@osgasojo]

Thank fcking god.

[@andyfriederichsen]

Buff the Bison.

[@ashe._]

liar. this was not fixed yet. there are still cases where this occur

[@genericprofile2381]

Thank god, now I know where to hide when a soldier with a bison is gonna deal minimal damage to me.

[@slyseal2091]

*c r i t i c a l s h i t*

[@TheNamesSnek]

now I know*

[@cadunkus]

Yeah, standing on those ramps causes you to take like 6 less damage per projectile.

[@RoadMC2]

Who tf uses bison?

[@darknes4150]

@@RoadMC2 me

[@auraguard0212]

So this is why the Dragon's Fury projectile collides with air molecules.

[@nilsber.]

imagine a game with actual microscopic details

[@yaboifab2]

Dragon Furry

[@stronkers136]

@@yaboifab2 OH GOD NOOOOO!

[@yaboifab2]

@@stronkers136 too late

[@stronkers136]

@@yaboifab2 DDD-: oh no... I can see the 13 yo. girls rise up... What have you done..??

[@chr0min0id]

Players: “The bison can’t be more shitty than it already is” Bison: *Lmao watch this*

[@masamigameon]

Disintegrates upon colliding with air molecule

[@Humanoidmp]

It is a viable weapon. I recently got my strange one to 200 kills and I started questioning my sanity

[@woobgamer5210]

'Viable', against morons that is. Seriously, it's the worst weapon in the game besides the claidhmor, the caber, the volcano fragment and the enforcer

[@anhkietduongdo]

@@woobgamer5210 Whatever you say about the Claid, i love trimping.

[@joevincent1987]

Diadomergaming555 Splendid Caber? Critsplosions and crit dmg :D

[@TKsh1]

Now THAT explains a lot about the Wrap Assassin hitting me for no reason at all. For Valve, it just works.

[@oarukano3360]

Wait, what the fuck why are you here Takeshi?

[@Tasty_Gold]

me either it was like haha ornament go boom boom in hand

[@timrthoward7007]

Happens all the time!

[@GGolden2500]

I was about to comment that

[@TKsh1]

@@oarukano3360 Because I like TF2 and TF2 trivia.

[@CaptPanOfSteel]

I love how these weapons are used so absolutely little that these MAJOR issues are only now being discovered

[@Cat780j]

I use the wrap Assasian ;-;

[@w7h8m9c2]

They aren't only now being discovered. The bounding boxes problems has been known by the community for ages now. But shounic was the only youtuber to do an entire video to focus on this single issue. Others normally bring it up as one of many glitches

[@QwertyChavez]

The wrap assassin is my favorite scout melee, actually! I know it's not super popular but I think it's fun.

[@briandiehl9257]

The wrap assassin as other people have mentioned is commonly used. But having only one shot makes it less likely to discover these. There is no excuse for the bison tho, no one uses it

[@cavemanpretzel9520]

I swear I've seen a vid about the bison issue before

[@milliondollarmistake]

The longer that wrap assassin clip went on for the louder my internal "wow"'s got.

[@PassTheSnails]

Actually same, wtf

[@ThatOneDude7]

Valve : Okay so we heard there's a problem with the Wrap Assassin on Badwater, can you tell us where it's broken ? Shounic : Where it's broken you say ?!!!! WHERE IS IT NOT BROKEN !?!

[@andrewcurtin7003]

Did they eventually get external?

[@Danodan94]

That badwater wrap assasin error is genuinely horrifying to me. My favorite scout melee is being done dirty by the spaghetti code.

[@Danodan94]

@Wizardry Wolf Art Thanks!

[@Cobalt985]

@@Danodan94 Yoo I missed that! I love TwoKinds! I haven't read in a few months, I think I'm gonna catch up tomorrow (it's 3am here)

[@Danodan94]

I noticed and almost died of happiness. 😆

[@NewTungsten]

I like how you have such a formal and informational way of speaking only for you to drop a hard passive aggressive comment or two

[@Nathan-kk6lb]

Hamilton The sudden F-bomb after spending the rest of the video very clinically discussing why projectiles act the way they do in Source just further drives home how ridiculous that specific bug is. One specific weapon is completely non-functional over an entire segment of map because it interacts in an unintended way with the hitbox of the *scripted victory cutscene*. That’s just objectively hilarious.

[@tananonn6778]

“Opening up badwater in hammer it turns out the thing that the wrap assassin is colliding with is the bounding box of the FUCKING explosion animation that play when the cart reached the end” I almost spit out my water xd

[@Wave_Commander]

Like good 'ol KliksPhilip

[@trigger7ff6]

"opening up badwater in hammer, it turns out the thing that the wrap assassin is colliding with is the *bounding box of the fucking explosion animation that plays when the cart reaches the end* "

[@eggedegg4659]

it brings me dopamine

[@nightfall745]

So basically Bison is melee weapon?

[@Straiferdt01]

It's a melee with extra steps.

[@strevortni]

@@Straiferdt01 rick and morty reference?

[@bowser3017]

it is either a melee weapon or a tank destroyer

[@critrawkets]

*PERHAPS.*

[@ally4706]

it's a taser

[@im.Trinidad]

That explains why I killed myself one time with the wrap assassin.

[@bruschetta7711]

This is the type of magic that Merasmus doesn't want you to learn

[@bobbyferg9173]

1:08 Ah yes, we finally have context for Valve’s infamous code: _Should Ball Touch_

[@succubastard1019]

_Before any physics are simulated, the game first uses some more efficient bounding boxes to check if the two balls are touching. If they are not, it's not gay._

[@smiley3972]

@@succubastard1019 LOL

[@testhekid]

@@succubastard1019 nice one

[@ThatOneDude7]

If the bounding boxes start touching, then the gay checker starts working. It makes a decision on wether what has happened is gay or not

[@testhekid]

@@ThatOneDude7 and it must go through a tedious process to analyse the existence of the variable "no homo" to make sure it's not an immediate not gay

[@Someonewithaspace]

this why is why the bison needs a buff *because its too strong*

[@night_sniper5754]

Oh, look who's there, how's it going?

[@gwen_gets_got]

Night_Sniper - idk. I’m doing good

[@aidanholland8921]

Gman [GD] thanks for asking

[@ClaireTheSaltyHypocrite2309]

🤔

[@soupcan5948]

Don't you mean nerf

[@meatdress8111]

5:06 I'm guessing this code was to fix the exploit where you could shoot the bison at gates like the spawn ones and they would just stay floating there until the door was opened, destroying everyone behind.

[@juicejooos]

Anyone tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems like a pretty short-sighted and haphazardly made solution.

[@mesomusa6174]

@@juicejooos No

[@BossKnight]

Wrong bug, it was for the Bison mines if you shot at a ramp the bison projectile would get stuck and if you spammed it, it would instantly kill anyone who walked over it.

[@phoenixrq9139]

I remember that for the 45 seconds it existed before being patched

[@willtheoreminer]

wait that was a thing?

[@thenextgeneration9030]

so NO ONE has talked about this especially when it happens the most egregiously in badwater, one of the most famous tf2 maps?

[@Banshee523]

It's been known for years, I made videos on it too 3 years ago and sent Valve emails, but it really needed someone with a bigger audience to point it out. That's basically the only chance Valve ever fixes something.

[@ghost_ship_supreme]

That awkward moment when almost a quarter of the whole video is dedicated to badwater...

[@richardvlasek2445]

people have known about this for years but excluding the dragon's fury the weapons this is affecting are all really shit so I guess up until now no one really gave enough of a fuck to raise a proper stink about it

[@jackthatistheripper]

Maybe cause almost NO ONE using wrap assasin in casual?

[@bruschetta7711]

This is why i love this youtuber, many games go that one youtuber studying on the game itself, but for tf2 it was hard for me to find one till shounic startef doing these 200iq videos

[@CuteLittleLily]

7:42 you can feel the anger from that single tone change

[@DoctorCyan]

It made me bust out laughing

[@nataliaborys1554]

The source spaghetti crossed a line with this one

[@SnowflakeVee]

can't wait for the two coders employed at valve to fix this in two years

[@wiselychosenname2867]

How bold of you to assume its gonna be in two years

[@randomperson1955]

@@wiselychosenname2867 how about 2 decades?

[@pieguy6992]

Correction: Five

[@dgamer5075]

@@pieguy6992 Nah, it's going to be 7, as part of the 20th anniversary update

[@z1pline487]

don’t forget to give credit to my man the potted plant

[@reeceulf]

This seriously feels like some kind of April Fools video. I'm astonished.

[@SU76M]

What.

[@dk1480]

Welcome to Team Fortress 2

[@realguywhoisreal]

Everyone rants about bison, but noone ramps about bison.

[@davistoa]

Hystairical.

[@G_Macks]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYeVpHWLh8yIeKs

[@Smooms-z2r]

Creative Name damn you

[@testhekid]

idk i liked the bison more than the bison

[@caitily]

real guy who is, in fact, real? good heavens

[@zachsz9320]

I am sure this is valve's way of nerfing the wrap assassin, it'd be too good overwise

[@AzzieEquinox]

There used to be an exploit a few years back that let you stack a bunch of the Bison's projectiles against a setup door indefinitely. This let you crash servers, and also let off a bunch of projectiles at once when setup time ended. I guess this was their fix.

[@BComet]

Thanks Delfy.

[@YonDS96]

Was fun :^)

[@blestop5998]

Shut up furry

[@JacobKinsley]

@@blestop5998 shut up Cottoneye Joe

[@blestop5998]

@@JacobKinsley shut up gacha life fan

[@stonerkirby]

The huntsman's arrow also breaks in similar situations when it has projectile penetration. Maybe you could make a short video demonstrating how it reacts as well?

[@bruschetta7711]

Wdym projectile penetration

[@ramhevelio1802]

@@bruschetta7711 MvM huntsman has projectile penetration upgrade

[@nemtudom5074]

Probably because putting penetration on it turns it from a projectile into a physics object somewhere down inside the code

[@bruschetta7711]

@@ramhevelio1802 oh yeah, i like MvM but i don't play it that much

[@janreiafrica]

"The game uses bounding boxes to check if the 2 balls are touching"

[@Someonewithaspace]

thats a epic line said by a epic tf2 gamer

[@OfficialboobOrg]

The balls are inert

[@heidiaguirre5672]

It's only gay if the balls touch

[@mono_si]

100 source units apart cuz they're not gay

[@epicmapping2930]

But of course

[@Sneaker3719]

Omfg, I had heard complaints in the community about the "Source Spaghetti," but I never knew the problem was this bad. One can only hope that Gaben will pass his eye over this game again and finally optimize it.

[@CrashHeadroom]

Do you now feel our pain in the (almost dead) modding community? XD now, imagine waiting since 2008, FOR A FIX FOR SURFACE LADDERZ IN HAMMER, VALVE!!!

[@azzor4134]

You can't unspaghetti a spaghetti

[@grim66]

at this point they ought to just build a new engine and make Team Fortress 3 because I don't think that spaghetti's getting untangled any time soon

[@Sneaker3719]

@@grim66 You'd be surprised. Apparently a community member is volunteering to help untangle it using the source code leak that happened last Summer. I think VNN did a video on it. We may have an optimized TF2 yet.

[@steely9476]

Dude this makes so much sense. I remember on tr_walkway I was practicing my tracking with Dragon's Fury and I literally couldn't hit enemies on the ramps. There must be the same problem on that map as well as these ones. Thanks for explaining.

[@vincent-ls9lz]

lmaooo shounic was so calm and professional the whole video and then he reaches the wrap assassin badwater part at 7:42 and goes 'the thing that the wrap assassin is colliding with is the bounding box of the FUCKING explosion animation-'

[@AuroraVeil_]

Yet another reason to buff the bison

[@marsmeadiuvat2439]

You mean nerf right?

[@ABAgamer_]

*Don’t you dare.*

[@vicentem4491]

Brother

[@МаркТамазин]

DON'T

[@badideagenerator2315]

The bison is weird, it would work way better as a machine pistol with less damage and no piercing. Same with the pomson which literally sounds like Thompson.

[@obamahostile4073]

TF2 "works" because of: ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶c̶o̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶l̶o̶g̶i̶c̶ ̶a̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ *magic*

[@wiselychosenname2867]

Sounds right

[@Leoffta]

TF2 "works" because of: MERASMUS!

[@nukkonyan]

*I t j u s t w o r k s*

[@thenthson]

You have no idea as to how much coding duct tape is needed to keep this crapstrorm running.

[@NebulousOdious]

@@thenthson It's the hats isn't it? I mean, the whatever server game adresses for hats is already hurts the game. Can you be more speciffic, though? I'm just curious.

[@AwooHG]

0:12 Gabens stomach is disgustingly mesmerizing

[@aurochs2449]

Wdym? Its pretty cute.

[@martinkaufmann294]

*sacredly

[@Mate_Antal_Zoltan]

😳😳😳

[@EpicRail123456]

5:31 scout begins to furiously grab and smash all of the christmas tree ornaments after his mom gets him the wrong bat

[@galacticgamer6635]

It's interesting how a shounic video being outdated is such a great thing.

[@heidiaguirre5672]

And this's part of the reason why the Dragon's Fury sucks so much

[@snubcube]

The dragons fury is powerful... where did you get that from

[@michaelshumshum]

@@snubcube did u watch the video

[@RoxiCoal]

@@michaelshumshum because there is few places where it's bugged? I don't think it makes it shit

[@mesomusa6174]

@@RoxiCoal no degraser is the best

[@xyz3524]

@@mesomusa6174 no deodorant in spray with lighter is the best

[@lanfour4444]

3:26 "//This is a terrble way of doing this!"

[@jackpilcrow]

and in valvetime fashion, after several years, the potted plant in the dev team finally fixed nearly all of these in a random update November 15, 2021. Except the wrap assassin but who cares about that lmao. EDIT December 2, 2021: Little under a month later, with Smissmas 2021, the wrap assassin was given similar fixes but... after some testing the badwater basin jank shown in the video still exists so the wrap assassin remains a victim to source code spaghetti. You tried.

[@jackpilcrow]

But really, Dragons Fury is actually fun to use now and doesn't require map knowledge to use in a game with hundreds of maps.

[@Mate_Antal_Zoltan]

looks like it's time for another edit...

[@collaide]

4:10 It is done to organize but there's literally no need for it to be func_lod. When you press CTRL+T to make a brush or selection of brushes into an entity the default is func_detail, which is fine and all you need. I don't know why the mapper would go out of his way to make it a func_lod, it's not like the render distance of this thing in particular is going to improve fps...

[@pogchamp8202]

"The bounding box of the fucking explosion animation" this sudden use of vocabulary was so sudden and hilarious

[@Poopafartium]

Please do a take on Dragons furys unfair colliding with almost every projectile. How needles makes it worthless.

[@thejam0451]

With how fast the DF is they should really make it hitscan

[@Poopafartium]

@@thejam0451 I guess, lol

[@ivanyy]

@@thejam0451 or they could you know, fix projectiles

[@patchmoulton5438]

Wait... if the DF is considered a projectile, could you air blast it?

[@randomcatdude]

@@patchmoulton5438 Yup, it can be airblasted.

[@icif1234]

You're so calm and collected through the entire video, I lost it at "the bounding box of the *fucking* explosion animation," it just comes out of nowhere

[@atomic8681]

I have been using the bison since. Thank you valov

[@tenno5509]

thanks vulva

[@ironguy366]

thanks Volvo

[@stripethecatsoldier]

next update -Fixed a bug involving a ramp on Gullywash blocking the player from firing the Righteous Bison. -Updated/Added some tournament medals. -Updated the localization files.

[@pcjpeh0f9wh]

that direct f-bomb spoken in the most lifeless, monotone voice imaginable at 7:45 is what gives me life

[@stic9728]

5:50 love how the scout screams go with the song lol.

[@Jellotines]

What song?!

[@Persvicx]

it wqs copyright claimed falsely and removed ​@@Jellotines

[@solargoth]

November 15, 2021: Fixed Dragon's Fury, Short Circuit, and tf_projectile_energy_ring projectiles colliding with func_lod entities HALLELUJAH

[@solargoth]

*allegedly.

[@Mic.vencer]

I always love when you personify the engine or the game mechanics, it adds a comical layer when you insult the quirkiness and spaghetti of the code, making it seem like it’s the thing making the dumb mistakes

[@BottomOfTheDumpsterFire]

This is like, the smoothest video editing I've seen.

[@luckyRedSeven]

It's over. The Wrap Assassin works on (most) ramps now

[@SirGoldalot]

7:46 what I’ve always loved about your content is your sly humor and calm state, but when you said this I laughed my ass off... 🤣

[@bruschetta7711]

It was clear he was going to swear when i saw him smashing his face with the wrap assassin for over a minute around the last point

[@1e1001]

More like 7:44

[@zombine7103]

Its 7:44 wtf dude

[@FungalFury]

This actually explains so many confusions about I had about the wrap assassin and bison when I was new.

[@realbland]

i thought "wow old tf2 was so garbage sometimes" the video: _uploaded 20 hours ago_

[@SamuelTrademarked]

7:45 he really sounded like he was fed up with the source engine pasta

[@MonsoonTheMagnet]

"things would also get extremely bad with more balls"

[@nitrous1001]

Wasn't that "patch" to prevent the projectile living in doors a fix to one of the old exploits done by Delfy in the past?

[@xyzzy-dv6te]

Yes, it was

[@leonardo9259]

Thanks Delfy

[@beardmanyt7164]

Finally i know why these are so broken. Thank you!

[@329link]

Watching scouts arms agressively flail everywhere with wrapping paper is so much funnier than it sounds.

[@thiscateatspancakes2451]

2:04 *saying thanks after the ball hits the ground*

[@lemonzess4202]

The editing in the video was superb!

[@huitzilo7567]

i'm becoming smarter everyday thanks, and now i can't use my favorite weapon (wrap assassin) on my favorite map (bad water)

[@board7374]

not like you could before....

[@capitaineSZM]

Your video is well documented, interesting af and dustforce OST is cherry on top!!! Amazing job!!!

[@mothgillies975]

its ACTUALLY because in these places, the bison magically turns itself into a melee weapon

[@Amber_Valentine]

Todd : it's just works Gabe : it's just magically running

[@bobzakernasvina4570]

After a several years, they finally fixed it

[@The_D_ray]

Omg I love these ridiculously detailed coding videos. It makes me feel a good programmer because I understand what's wrong, or what's not wrong.

[@ch_oke]

oh god gabens belly caught my eye at 0:13

[@theotv5522]

5:04 This was due to back in the days these energy projectile such as Pomson, Bison and Cow Mangler would just stay inside spawn/sliding doors and you can stack them up to create a literal nuke the next time an enemy interacts with the door while standing in front of said group projetile. Delfy once made a video on this long ago, probably 2 years ago if I'm not wrong. A bit of history for all you youngsters there.

[@theodoreroosevelt3143]

"two balls touching" classic...

[@theboi7475]

2:06 im glad you included the “thanks pally!”

[@KingofJ95]

Imagine having a weapon so powerful that it is weakened by its interactions with the future.

[@MrMeanor]

3:32 scout clapping at the incredible blunder that is collision hulls

[@pivotman319]

i'm certain it also has to do with the the player hull being hit by the projectile first upon spawning (since the player entity does have a QPhysics bounding box)

[@bakugo_v8]

It doesn't, all projectiles correctly ignore the attacker's bounding box.

[@ya_boi_salami]

the lil graphic animations are so top notch, got damn. also dustforce ost represent

[@Imirui]

The thing about the Wrap Assassin not working on Badwater Last is now outdated! There's a new update that fixes the ball instantly shattering there!

[@vilukisu]

These kinds of videos are great because they actually show how bugs come about. It also makes one understand why some bugs can be so tedious to fix.

[@nyanezt9636]

"its just magically running" lmao

[@s0nnyburnett]

Some of the guys from my community servers were talking about one of your videos the other night. Keep up the good work, the hardcore long time players love this stuff.

[@shounic]

oh hey, glad to hear it :D thanks for letting me know :)

[@sherpFPS]

There’s 2 on Hightower as well, on the cart loading area thing, also for some reason, jumping near that area runs you into an invisible wall which tends to get you killed.

[@idiye]

Dude, you deserve so many more subs. You make such high quality content that deserves 500k subs at the very least. Keep up the good work!

[@ZER-cr4dm]

Note to self: Never use the Wrap assasin on Badwater

[@vaalesha2278]

The editing is so slick. Keep up the amazing work!

[@bobisnotaperson]

The righteous bison was the first weapon i got for soldier.

[@bomberharris9322]

I remember wanting it really bad back then because of the Cow Mangler and I just wanted to complete the set. Good times

[@alexxx4434]

I remember when Pomson was like Bison

[@Tuskor130]

Maybe the reason that the Sandman ball doesn't get deleted while the Wrap Assassin ball does is because if the baseball doesn't hit a player it will start rolling on the ground, while the ornament will shatter upon impact no matter what it hits.

[@dankmachine]

And now, a rare moment in TF2 An outdated weapon mechanic video

[@eugenenalpin6058]

Jesus Christ, if I ever got a chance to check out what's happening under the hood of TF2 I wouldn't touch that shit with a 30-foot pole

[@ZeArnold-mh8ig]

That’s why when I tried to use the wrap assassin it just kept breaking in my face.

[@Veptis]

The ever so slight 'fucking' is a great element.

[@puppyking233]

It's FINALLY fixed! (including the wrap assassin) GabeN buffed the bison 1!1!11!!!1 All hail GabeN

[@Alb410]

That spagetti code is probably the old bison glitch where you could shoot it into spawn doors before a round and watched them escape as the doors open and delete enemies like a wall of death.

[@inactivepleasegoaway]

they ACTUALLY fixed this

[@Kenlaboss.]

7:44 the way you swore out of nowhere made me laugh real hard!

[@nathanielstanford3115]

I think the issue they were trying to fix by this was Delfy's "Laser Mine" exploit

[@TheBanjoMann]

I was so confused as to why it seemed like the dragons fury never worked on those stairs on barnblitz, glad to finally see I wasn’t just bad at aiming.

[@augustfuller3396]

"imagine having the audacity to believe -weapons- -maps- -the game- the fucking engine itself is functional"

[@lazulazu2467]

I love how the wrap assassin bug is so major of an issue that the weapon literally cannot be used in a MASSIVE part of a very popular map, but it hadn't been noticed until now because nobody uses the wrap assassin.

[@cwtcw7058]

It was added brcause of a glitch that allowed players to fill the spawn doors with infinite bison projectiles, killing anyone who enters

[@dclc]

i didn't know that, thank you!

[@evieinfinite]

How in the actual complete FUCK have I not known of this, like seriously what the fuck? I've never seen something like this.

[@rainrunya]

there's something very strange with hearing your calm, composed voice suddenly say "the bounding box of the *fucking explosion animation* "

[@TheDoh007]

Dude, i gotta say: that thumbnail is outstanding LMAO

[@gralmakaren9919]

0:33 why did I laugh at that?

[@openjcd]

Holy crap shounic your editing is so fluid.

[@modmaniamadness]

Valve is secretly owned by Bethesda.

[@bonecodoposto4618]

7:41 the fact that he says "the bounding box of the fucking explosion animation" is incredinly funny to me for some reason