The Deprogram Episode 44 - Iceberg ahead

Episode 45: The George Dubya Bush Masterclass is already available 1 week early for Patrons over at: / thedeprogram
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[@deptusmechanikus7362]

СССР should’ve been renamed into _Stalin’s Stalinist Stalinodar Republic_

[@billdipperly6435]

"I'm not racist I have a black friend"😤 "Wait a second. You're friends with black people?"🤨 "Aw fellas it ain't like that"😧 "HE'S A COMMIE GET'EM" 🤬🤬🤬 This shit had me laughing

[@Steven-ly9ei]

FELLLLAS! is it commie to have friends of colour 😅

[@endcaps1917]

Lizzy is burning with Gorbachev

[@therat1117]

I am a they/them and can confirm that it is acceptable to say 'they/them pussy', that was kind of flattering actually.

[@alanhorton7300]

"Moon Pie! What a time to be alive!" Then you actually try to eat a Moon Pie and it's so fucking dry you physically can't swallow it without a huge gulp of soda and you're like "Moon Pie! Why am I alive?"

[@deptusmechanikus7362]

It’s because moon pie is made of moon dust

[@michaelslowmin]

You're wrong. Moon pies are incredible.

[@kontankarite]

Id rather eat mooncakes. 😒 Moonpies are so damned dry.

[@michaelslowmin]

@Just Danny It's the most Homer Simpson thing to be

[@tristangerber7554]

Microwave the moon pie next time👀

[@xbeheritx8323]

I really respect Dennis Rodman’s commitment to internationalism

[@lukemadrid5711]

QUEEN IS DEAD LIZZYS IN A BOX

[@Firefox_42]

I can't belive Hakim had Gigachad as a patient.

[@quarfg]

I believe the reason why the hole still remains is so that it could get an even cook throughout the whole bagel + you get more crust. This is an instance where the hole actually makes sense

[@quarfg]

and now you just googled it XD

[@PatrickCervantez]

TL:DR A college buddy forced me to eat a bagel in front of him because I never had one up to that point. Funny story: I was telling a college buddy of mine about a Christmas party I went to and tried macaroni and cheese for the first time. He was flabbergasted at how I didn't eat Mac and cheese as kid. So I said, almost verbatim, "What's the big deal? I've never had a bagel before either". Well that was the wrong thing to say because he said I had no excuse since we were sitting in the college cafeteria and they were only $1. He got so upset he *bought* me a bagel just so I can't say I never tried one. I had to eat it in front of him too. On the one hand: free food. On the other... my friends are weirder than me sometimes.

[@GirtonOramsay]

Also, it's easier to hold and eat a bagel with one hand compared to thin slices of toast. You can put your thumb in the hole and use the bridge to your index for support.

[@alekz112]

Holeless bagels exist. Their texture and mouthfeel are supposedly very different. I've never had a bagel being from India, but have watched videos of the way it's made. It seems as though the way the dough is twisted is important to the structure of the bagel, giving it its bite and chew. I'm sure a way to incorporate the technique can be come up with that doesn't create a hole but I haven't heard of it.

[@goutamboppana961]

@@PatrickCervantez ghost them

[@strawberryJen711]

I love how yugopnik answered his own shoot the cat or dog question with no yugopnik would choose shoot self first.

[@TheMoistestNugget]

after the revolution every country will be renamed New Stalinia except for Georgia which will be Stalinia

[@user-nb7gp4fk7j]

Cringe

[@jessh4016]

@@user-nb7gp4fk7j cring

[@imaginepineapples7050]

I can't understand why people defend Lizzy.

[@mihailoradovanovic7283]

The dead one or the "younger" one, both are shit

[@ira233]

Cuz they are brainwashed to serve their lord and king and queen from birth, cult of royalty is pretty strong there.

[@bismarckfamily277]

Who's lizzy

[@imaginepineapples7050]

@@bismarckfamily277 "Lizzy" is a nickname of Queen Elizabeth II.

[@Nobody-qy7zp]

Who must go?

[@Fight4Liberation]

If y'all do have an episode about the sino-soviet split, it would be nice to have a voice like MarxistPaul or another principled maoist to discuss it with. I would be interested to hear where there are agreements and comradely disagreements. Just a thought!

[@jadasakura]

Second this!

[@mattie5259]

My friend works at Nabisco Mondelez, shout out to them winning their fight for a new union contract last year. Also I've studied WW1 a lot, Austria-Hungary was looking for any excuse to invade Serbia, it would have happened anyway. And as far as a reason, it really just comes down to multiple capitalist imperial powers running out of space to expand at the same time.

[@smokyondagrass2353]

Main (militarism, Alliance system, Imperialism & Nationalism) Is what were taught in school on what lead to WW1

[@podemosurss8316]

The documentary channel The Great War made that point. The Austro-Hungarian chief of staff, Conrad von Hötzendorff, was a warmonger.

[@TennesseeJed]

The torus shape increases the delicious crust!

[@friedhelmvandal1960]

1:16:30 As an Appalachian learning about this is what got me to look into the history of labor movements in the US and put me on the path to becoming a communist

[@futon2345]

The hole-less bagel you desire exists, it’s called a BIALY

[@RedScareClair]

Is it as dense as a bagel? As they were talking about it I was literally thinking, "the hole has to be for cooking. Bagels are dense AF" lol

[@futon2345]

@@RedScareClair it’s even denser

[@aliasalone5823]

Yo wot?!

[@futon2345]

@@aliasalone5823 bialys

[@aliasalone5823]

@@futon2345 I will consume

[@jadasakura]

Slavs are like: *colonize the colonizers* Logically I understand how 19 is young to be radical, but as someone who's been communist since I was 14, it's still strange to hear. I know I was radicalized so young by my own experiences and luck of having exposure to the right readings. My teacher telling me to read Angela Davis (who is by no means the be all end all of leftist thought, it was definitely a good place to start at that age) at 12 because she knew I'd find it validating was also incredibly helpful.

[@goutamboppana961]

i got radicalised by bread tube

[@Blessed_V0id]

Then you will be far wiser than you should on the topic. People will always be belittling to us political adults. They call us young and inexperianced, but we are just ahead of the curve. Gives us more time to use our knowledge for mutual benefit or political discussions.

[@jmagowan12]

Nicely done.

[@shadeaquaticbreeder2914]

I feel the same. I came to consider myself a communist and anarchist when I was about the same age (14) or maybe younger but that is only bc that is when I discovered these terms as I was searching for the terms for what I did believe (as well as atheism) bc I did not align with anything I saw in society. I feel like I was born a Marxist as I have always seen society as what we could possibly do and accomplish and wondered why we didn't do that and why things were so bad or hard when every piece of media was telling me otherwise and that we were the best and most free in the world. American propaganda especially lends to keeping people from thinking in a Marxist way.

[@Sillymodezeenith]

Same, I grew up with a socialist mother, and a terrible father in the military that already set me up to detest the government. I never had a ‘eye opening’ moment, I was just… always radical. I 100% think it’s also because I’m autistic and American propaganda never really worked or conditioned me in the first place.

[@nicholascharles9625]

Anyone who insults comrade Britney goes straight to the gulag. Also JT seemed to channel his inner hank hill this episode

[@thimblebarry]

I grew up being told the hole in the bagel is for that awesome bite of only cream cheese.

[@jbingart3009]

ISNT IT?

[@thimblebarry]

@@jbingart3009 don't know for sure but I love bagels!

[@GirtonOramsay]

34:15 Lol it's still continuing. I just rode through the new Joseph R. Biden Expressway in Scranton Pennsylvania, which is less than 1 km long. Very symbolic of his presidency if I may so.

[@techloidtech2051]

The hole is in the bagel to gelatinize the gluten evenly during boiling and to bake thoroughly. The gelatinized crust makes for a denser crum.

[@raven_g6667]

I just can't listen to this today guys. I'm so sad about Queen Elizabeth dying. 😢 Sike!

[@thevictor180]

What a hooooorrible tragedy. I feel just as bad as when Gorbachev died

[@ira233]

Good one ;)

[@jonwells3431]

dying at the blood test results lol

[@lunalangton5776]

4:50 gigachad "Have you taken any drugs?" [chad voice] "Yes. I take any drugs."

[@mrpieceofwork]

Most bread products cook "less" in the center (we wouldn't be able to eat them if they were crusty and hard all the way through) and if you notice, bagels and donuts are the same consistency throughout bc of that hole

[@PvlC]

I hoped to learn new useful things to do with my balls, but instead now I know that I shouldn't make loud annoying noises near turk drivers making barbeque in (Iran?). Still every bit of knowledge you share could one day save my life. Thank you, comrades

[@noanimezone3149]

Here to comment about how much I fucking love this podcast. Cheers

[@ALL_CAPS__]

Love the conversations. The shoot the shit style sarcasm works well with the three of you. Feels like you're hanging out with close friends. Looking forward to more!

[@hargydon]

This was one of the funniest episodes yet. Thanks for the laughs guys.

[@Born-Liberated_EmpatheticWorld]

Even in the animated image JT has his dogs. Those are his ride or dies. 💜

[@beccagrantham5978]

That is so cute, I never noticed that!

[@ichsagnix4127]

The hole in the middle of a bagel is for holding it better when cutting it in half.

[@cadkls]

Hmm

[@Tetragrammaton22]

Then you cut a slice in your thumb because you left it in the hole too long.

[@Ajente02]

37:53 - 40:44 I really would've prefered to hear JT's comment on Mccarthyism, being him the token US-American of the group (and the one on the group who most probably have had direct experience with actual Yankee-style "red scare"). Hakim is amazing with descriptions of events and curious stuff, but sometimes he can get too much speaking time.

[@Tetragrammaton22]

Hakim talks too much. Should really be ~1/3 talking time for each person.

[@ghostnoodle9721]

BONJOUR FELLOW COMRADES ANY UNIONS NEED JOINING FOR OUR COLLECTIVE BARGAINING POWER TO BE INCREASED?!

[@alexengland-shinemercy]

Why do Americans say "oh-marge" for homage and "urbs" for herbs, claiming it's cos of the french etymology, but pronounce hotel, hospital and a ton of other etymologically french words with no pretence at all? *And* it's more weird from the language community that removed letters from french-origin words like colour and flavour, explicitly to make them more american. Not saying you guys have to be consistent, I'm British so its not like we have any claim to any kind of high ground there, it's just that the "It's French" argument seems about as watertight as "I'm Irish" from Florida Man.

[@hyacinthdathenes9405]

Wonderful episode and I want to thank you guys for introducing me to the blowback podcast! I'm working my way through season 3 now and the first two were just as amazing and infuriating. The depth of knowledge they demonstrate is amazing and I can't thank you guys enough for having him on!

[@jasonharrison3873]

LETS GOOOOO NEW DEPROGRAM

[@Zapadoslavist]

32:51 what he didn't manage to shoot down was renaming a Polish city of "Katowice" to "Stalinogród" which means the same thing as "Stalingrad", but in Polish "City of Stalin"

[@Vanbedda]

I'm here to flex my "che comandate amigo" tanktop that I got a from a Cuban stand at a commie festival I went to recently :D .Anyway, this was a lovely and entertaining episode as always!

[@SINISTERsmile64]

Amazing Episode! Took me a couple days to get around to listening

[@therat1117]

You guys missed the opportunity to call it an 'unholy bagel'

[@miaumiau679]

48:48 damn JT that pronunciation was great!!

[@damnitol]

Thnx, I liked this episode. icebergs are fun, and I learned/was reminded about many things - I've been meaning to check out Gramsci (1:30:00) for awhile. To add to the iceberg: I read Mythologies by Barthes and that work blew my mind. They're a set of essays that are semiotic explorations of contemporary 1953-57 French media and symbolic hegemony. The creation and maintenance of myth. How it works as a language. It's so pertinent today too with the culture machine rampant under neo-liberal capitalism mythologizing, appropriating, and recuperating all potentially dissident material, and repackaging it as a sanitized, marketable version. (also whoops just realized Barthes is French lel - 1:24:45)

[@dripster4424]

The battle of fort blair is probably the biggest thing in terms of civil protests that was cut out of the history books

[@TheJamiesg]

The whole is to increase the surface area of crust.

[@sushipsychose]

Yes, please have an episode on cults (35:35)! What I find especially interesting is how well-hidden they are to some ordinary people today, it's not really Heaven's Gate type shit anymore, cults are like multi-level marketing schemes, insurance salesmen, kryptobros, self-help groups, obscure political parties, and so much more (even those are probably the most obvious among them), I find it intriguing how most people wouldn't recognize those as cults, hell, not even if they themselves were exploited by one sometimes

[@thebigt3706]

you can put a softboiled egg in the middle to make an egg sandwich without having the yolk break and spill out over you, thats what i do with bagels.

[@BolshevikBurgeoning17]

Bagel, lunch meat, cheese, spread, spinach, tomato. That's a sandwich habibi

[@colonel__klink7548]

TBH, the argument that Lenin was sent to upset the Russian empire and cause it's withdrawal from the war doesn't actually... detract from the communist side. The war was objectively bad for the normal people of the Russian empire. The reason why things kept deteriorating even after the Tsar left was simply because the war was consuming more resources than the whole of the empire could produce. The people were destitute and starving as a result. From the perspective of wanting to help the average person pulling Russia out of the war was the right thing to do, it doesn't matter if it was a German plot, it matters if it was the right thing.

[@mrpieceofwork]

I like the JP edit where he's arguing with himself

[@mishanuketheus2570]

There was a city in Poland named Stalingród

[@KekusMagnus]

You just made me imagine a wirld without the Sino Soviet split. Fuck I feel sad now =(

[@petrosstefanidis6396]

I see one dislike... There must be an infiltrator amongst us.

[@idkidc7513]

There was a situation similar here in my country, where there was a leftist guy from the states that wanted to create with his pals their own communist utopia, so they bought a huge plot of land in some part at the north of Mexico. It didn't lasted that long that's for sure.

[@jamesdoyle6914]

New Merch Idea: Face reveal of all the boys on a t-shirt making Guevara face

[@non-gmobuttplug6204]

This was fun and was worth it. Spice it up with more school shooting jokes tho

[@ipheclekennedy]

a new episode of DEE program lets gooooooooo

[@PrettyH8Mach1n3]

Based cat preferers Yugopnik and Hakim.

[@aliasalone5823]

Ah Yugopnik, it seems you too watched that Netflix Cat documentary

[@mrpieceofwork]

Trading cards are the epitome of the "American" business model/grift

[@Komrad_Cybersyn]

Hakim : "French is a waste of time". *This one guy* : here he is again.... Also a French intervenant on the media one day? We have some right wing anti-imperialist nationalists using Marx's works. Might be interesting to hear. If they speak English.

[@ericktellez7632]

French should always be mispronounced at any time it presents itself.

[@CjThe_ICEBURG]

Hello comrades, I'm a new watcher this the first pod I listened to love it! Keep it up. Also you guys should talk to Hasan

[@katiemarshall4340]

I kinda like my husband's take, basically for the last 30-ish years it was an arms race plus shifting markets both internal and external in Europe. Or the more petty I'm feeling I say "I want an empire" the German half of the British monarchy getting uppity.

[@billyhendry8369]

Dissos (ketamine, PCP), alcohol, deliriants, cannabis, serotonergics (MDMA although that might pop us meth idk), other stimulants (methylphenidates etc), lysergamines, Cathinones, phenethylamines, anti-psychotics, and anti-depressants (ssri etc.) That’s all the others I can think of. Hakim I need to know which ones of these drugs that patient guy was on too. Or maybe atleast just a straight number for all the types of drugs you tested for, I’m not sure if you can test for all these (probably yes cause blood test but yeah), but I absolutely love the patient stories and I need to know the answer cause this one has me dying. A man so high of his titts that he just casually ignores a serious infection all over his body.

[@Hsalf904]

Hearing leftists hate on French is still very strange to me because where I come from the Francophone Acadians are one of the historically and culturally oppressed minorities lol. But yes, coming from anywhere else in the world I would understand why. France = cringe, Acadians = based. And I still don’t really know how I feel about Québec they used to be essentially colonized but are definitely an integral part of Canadian imperialism now

[@renaigh]

I think when people say they 'hate' French people it's more towards Paris.

[@invidusspectator3920]

I find it honestly strange for different reasons. Hakim is such a well rounded Marxist that one would assume he has read a fair bit about and around the French Revolution. The Enlightenment philosophers and theoreticians were hugely influential on the development of socialism. Heck this French brand of socialism and radical societal critique was basically inscribed into the basis of Marxism. So strange he has no interest, probably lost it when he read up on Ho Chi Minh's experiences with the Communist Party of France. I do know he prefers Third World socialist movements to anything Western Marxists do. Which is honestly quite understandable.

[@UCjNrKLyRJI-abFA8qiNo92Q]

33:00 Hollywood is making a movie about that guy staring Leo DiCaprio as him

[@justanormalyoutubeuser3868]

1:35:50 You don't call s "see" either.

[@liviszhang1652]

A holeless bagel is just a mini pizza dough

[@britndayz]

Listened to all the episodes great podcast, can you talk more about coping with the daily grind, I find it so hard to keep going. I'm addicted to weed too so that doesn't help. There's a lot of mental health conditions but the antidepressants definitely are a bandaid on a bullet wound. Wonder what you guys thinks about johann hari

[@mrpieceofwork]

I live in a large US city named after a colonialist who successfully fought off other colonialists for "control" of a large US state/pseudo country that was stolen from the original inhabitants by both colonial parties

[@AWOLschmidt]

Sleepy Hakim is funny AF

[@thegratefulsteve]

Rage Against the Machine is based AF.

[@michaszkot4419]

You pronounce it "baggle". I lived in New York, so I know it.

[@Ajente02]

I've always heard it as "bay-ggle"... but I'm Dominican, so why would I know?

[@michaszkot4419]

@@Ajente02 Have you seen TV show "Community"? If not, I couldn't recommend it more.

[@Ajente02]

@@michaszkot4419 My little brother is very fan of it.

[@foofustherabbit]

Wonder if Mr. All The Drugs lost a lot of weight recently.

[@PutXi_Whipped]

🇮🇪 26+6=1

[@EchtInnviertler1996]

22:00 Well, Most Banks in Balkan are Austrian...

[@wister8528]

what is the purpose of the hole in the middle

[@T_Dot94]

I'm the guy asking about the French being a waste of time. I really don't care about french at all. I was just asking because I thought I was missing out on an inside joke.

[@Barten0071]

Nothing about tetris developer and licence problem..?

[@epictetus3834]

yo why can't I download this one ☹️

[@johnf.kennedy9346]

i was eating a bowl of neo-proletarian when i found out about the sino-soviet split. prob a mix of mao's mango and stalin's sorbet.

[@byronwesley6643]

Dogs- the people's pet

[@colonel__klink7548]

Nothingburger makes total sense! Imagine I serve you a plate with two hamburger buns on it. From a distance you're excited to see a hamburger coming then you realize, there's nothing inside. It's literally nothing. A burger of nothing. A nothingburger.

[@kankam3828]

The the show was called the one day at a time. And most of the actors weren't Cuban specifically. And other than that scene it was a pretty decent sit com

[@nearby222]

Could someone point me to some slightly unbiased info on Mao out of all the people socialist/communist talk about he's like one of the least.

[@timmyjefferson1815]

He’s more than a CHAD he is a CHE-D

[@gumdropcat3959]

I’m pretty sure the hole is there for even cooking

[@OneAngryPagan616]

Aneurin Bevan lost his shit when he got wind of Operation Unthinkable.

[@jogeran4955]

I still remember when Pamela Anderson endorsed Jeremy Corbyn for Prime Minister.

[@shadeaquaticbreeder2914]

21:24 after learning more history, especially about Eastern Europe or whatever you would call that area. I've come to think that the terms world war, at least for Americans have given them the wrong perception of what has happened.

[@redtexan7053]

I would absolutely be down for renaming George Bush International Airport after Stalin.

[@HaloJumper7]

@7:36 Some guy with a small head on his shoulders. Sound's like a Hasanabi call out.

[@viktormedvedev3992]

Guess you could argue operation unthinkable is still taking place, they just didn't directly invade the union after the war

[@chronaursa1442]

My end is not letting me watch the video. It says “No stream. Tap to retry”. Anyone else has this?

[@impulzivity1665]

Had the same issue for a few minutes. It's on youtube's end. It usually resolves itself in 5-15 minutes.

[@chronaursa1442]

@@impulzivity1665 should I come back to the video later or should I have the video on and wait 5-15 min?

[@impulzivity1665]

@@chronaursa1442 You can come back. No need to have it on while waiting 👍

[@andro_king]

4:10

[@seamussc]

Regarding the Mandela Effect and the monopoly guy, I suspect the notion he has a monocle comes directly from Ace Ventura 2: When Nature Calls. Jim Carrey insults a monocle clad Kipling-White Man's Burden character by calling him "the monopoly guy." Because the movie was so influential, people associated the image of this monocle clad man with the monopoly guy, who himself never had a monocle. I suspect the lady who thought Mandela died in prison in the 80s probably mixed up with another political prisoner of some sort who died in prison at that time.

[@Ajente02]

Actually, the stereotype of a monocle bourgeois in top hat with a moustache has been quite common since the early 19th century. It's just a collective confusion from most people between the stereotype and the actual Monopoly guy (also, Mr. Peanuts and the Pringles' guy don't help either). A personal case of Mandela Effect I've experienced with my brother was with the parody of Twisted Sisters' song _"I Wanna Rock"_ in the first Spongebob Squarepants movie. We vividly remember Spongebob playing a purple Flying-V guitar... but he actually plays a weird peanut-shaped acoustic guitar in the actual movie. And it's extremely weird that most people we've asked had a similar fake memory.

[@seamussc]

@@Ajente02 I think that plays a role, and was also part of the reason the character in Ace Ventura 2 had one as well. But the movie was inescapable in the 90s in the world of VHS, at least where I was. As for the Flying V, I believe you did see it, but just may have the wrong SpongeBob song. Sandy the Squirrel played a Purple Flying V when SpongeBob sang "Sweet Victory." Which is perfectly understandable to mix up, since I Wanna Rock was an 80s hair metal song, and Sweet Victory was a very 80s inspired hair metal ballad.

[@Ajente02]

@@seamussc That explains it quite well, I knew I wasn't crazy!

[@dirrdevil]

#TeamDog

[@shadeaquaticbreeder2914]

1:11:52 why isn't independent a party in America? Bc I think we shouldn't have any parties bc it should just be about individual policies and ideals not a group identity or tribalism. I say independent being a political party bc there are more independents than any other party yet they have basically no power and absolutely no organization at all. If independents organized at least along individual policies they would be able to take over and then it's be about policies and ideas.

[@shadeaquaticbreeder2914]

59:01 lol in the US, cats are horrible and most people hate them. Mostly because there are so many feral cats running around and they get into so much and they are so annoying. But actual pet cats that are cool are awesome.

[@KuhmeyaMayo]

I am also anti "22 different types of deodrant, shirts, mattresses and water bottles" guy.. that would just sum up my position basically..