The EV Charging Price War Is Just Beginning

[@philiptaylor7902]

Great analysis Dave. The cynic in me says that operators like BP have no interest in making their charging network work for the benefit of EV drivers, rather it’s an exercise in blocking serious competitors to Tesla from entering the market and thereby discouraging EV adoption.

[@ouethojlkjn]

I think the tipping point will be when supermarkets close their cheap fuel forecourts in favour of drizzle chargers in the car parks. I was in the oil industry when supermarkets started opening their own four courts and it really upset the Apple cart!

[@Sidewinder1009oli]

@@ouethojlkjn I’d agree but i think they need cheap 50kW chargers to be pretty attractive to people without a driveway, meaning someone can get almost a full charge during a shop

[@adisurd]

I live in The Netherlands and I can see why networks like ionity, Shell and Fastned might thrive in the presence of Tesla and still charge double of what Tesla does. The reason is that most teslas and other higher end RVs are cars leased to their drivers from their company. These cars come with charge cards that then gets charged to the leasing company. These card companies are in kuhoot with ionity, Shell etc. They do not let their end customers charge on Tesla network. That’s why it’s not surprising to see even teslas charge at Fastned at a location where in front of them is a bank of 40 Tesla superchargers, mostly unused.

[@narrowboatlongpod4176]

You'd think that Octopus would be somewhere in the mix!

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

Tesl charging stalls are just junction boxes for transition from a rigid cable to a flexible cable. All the power electronics are in protected industrial enclosures. If Tesla wants to update a V4 all they have to do is swap out one cabinet. Everyone else has there power electronics with the handle, poorly protected and much more difficult to swap out.

[@John-FourteenSix]

Hi Dave, Well observed, thank you.

[@rabidpb]

Tesla prices for non-Tesla drivers have already crept up since opening some sites to all, by about 30% by my estimation (one site near me has gone up from 32p to 45p off peak). That's still a lot cheaper than any of the other networks, though, and may be more about demand moderation than just for profit.)

[@ouethojlkjn]

As a Tesla driver, I was surprised to note that Tesla supercharges vary widely on price, depending on location and time. It can also depend on the rating of the supercharger.. but in reality, if I need to stop, I stop where it’s most convenient, and that includes non-Tesla!

[@rhystalbot8487]

Interesting views - the last time I was at Gretna Services (October school holidays admittedly) there were lots of Teslas charging on the Apple Greens because the Superchargers were full. Suspect they will have to expand a fair bit there if/when they open that site up to non-Teslas

[@hishamg]

I remember the petrol tanker strike of 2000. I was driving a 1st generation Fiat Punto with the 1.1 L engine (which I think looked a bit like an EV, no radiator grill) it was so economical that I got through the strike without having to refuel once.

[@AdrianNelson1507]

The last meaningful civil disobedience 😮

[@ouethojlkjn]

I had a Vauxhall Vectra, 2 L automatic company car at the time it averaged 32 miles per gallon, but during that period I got 50 miles per gallon. And I didn’t get anywhere any slower. I guess it goes to show how important driver behaviour is with fuel economy.

[@G6EJD]

Am I being cynical when a gallon of petrol enables a typical ICE vehicle to travel 30-miles at a cost of 4.54x£1.50=£6.81 and an EV at 3.3miles/kWh would cost @£0.73/unit = £6.81/£0.73x3.3=31mpg equivalent. There’s clearly price fixing going on.

[@Muppetkeeper]

Probably not. But also should be noted that despite the wholesale price of electricity dropping DRASTICALLY in the past 12 months, very few charging companies have dropped their prices. I know that many never increased them to meet peak electricity prices during the really bad times, but as with many other companies, we are being screwed. All the big supermarkets have increased profits, all the oil companies, all the telecoms companies, and pretty much any large company has increased prices above their actual cost increases. That’s what happens when capitalism turns into rampant capitalism.

[@davetakesiton]

Only if you pay 73p, I pay 11p at home and 35p out on the road, that spoils the equation

[@michaelgoode9555]

It's only people doing long journeys and stopping at superchargers paying that sort of money in an EV. Mostly they are paying less than 10 pence per kWh in overnight cheap rate costs.

[@stephenbroadhurst7653]

Don’t worry because for every gallon of diesel I buy for £6.81 I only actually get £3.04 of diesel because £3.77 of the total I pay is actually tax. I even get charged 20% VAT on the revenue the government charge me.

[@mikadavies660]

Of course there is price fixing going on. This is the whole point of the video. Once Tesla chargers cover all of UK at cheaper rates, everyone will fill up at Tesla. This is exactly why Tesla is NOT just a car company. They are a power / energy company that also sells cars.

[@johnrubber1144]

A well thought out analysis Dave. I have yet to use a supercharger for my MG4 but it's just a matter of time before I find one in a convenient location and it will be much cheaper so preferred in future.

[@moragkerr9577]

I can confirm that an MG4 charges just fine on a supercharger. Very easy. (The app hung, but the car charged fine.)

[@brushlessmotoring]

Solid discussion Dave. It's interesting even BP is buying Tesla V4 chargers now, as you say, much cheaper than the alternatives, and with remote software updates, just like the cars, compatibility issues with new cars (I've heard the Ioniq's have been having issues) can be resolved to all chargers.

[@guessliszt7001]

Tried charging an Ioniq 6 on Tesla superchargers in Cambridge - failed to charge on 3 different chargers so I'm really anticipating the update to help the ioniq models to be able to accept the Tesla charging network 🙏

[@brushlessmotoring]

@@guessliszt7001 if there is anyway to leave feedback in the Tesla App, I encourage you to do that. I noticed they added a feedback on a charge for Tesla owners recently, hopefully you can do that too, but if you could not start the charge, there may not be a charge entry to leave feedback against :(

[@Jaw0lf]

I agree with your analysis completely as I don't see how something double the price will survive. I guess that if all Tesla Chargers are full people could choose to pay double instead of waiting. Maybe these companies want to show that all chargers are never busy? Tesla has also reduced the price of their standard range M3 to under £40k so it is now very tempting as a purchase, even for the odd times I do need to recharge away from home. More Tesla locations popping up and especially if you drive in Europe, it will be the car to have.

[@thelifeofbatteries2603]

Europe is a whole different ball game compared to the UK, vastly more chargers and reasonable rates, travelling across is very easy these days, especially in France where every service station has a selection of well priced high power chargers

[@andrewstafford-jones4291]

The other non tesla suppliers will all drop their prices in due course - they cannot do this until they lose most of their customers and the shareholders can be coerced into accepting only marginal returns on their money or risk losing it all. The companies that snared these gullible investors ( probably many with your pensions), have to tread a fine line as they will have presented a business case to any investor and this has legal ramifications if can be shown to be fraudulent. The investors would probably only accept huge reduction this if the alternative was a complete loss of their investment via bankruptcy or winding up.

[@tonbridge13]

Well said sir. Well said.

[@Gazer75]

Non Tesla networks in Norway cut prices, but only after a lot of media coverage. Tesla is still cheapest deal unless you got a new EV charging deal. The most expensive ones are still twice the price though...

[@PierreSimonsson]

at least UNO X does! Dont know about recharge what is happening with them ?

[@Gazer75]

@@PierreSimonsson Most of them charged like 7-9 NOK/kWh 6+ months ago. even Tesla was asking for over 5 NOK, but they have come down a lot. Eviny is just under 5 NOK now and most others are 5-6 NOK. Some are still quite expensive like Mer, Circle K and Ionity. Still Tesla is 1-1.5 NOK cheaper. If you fast charge a lot the Tesla subscription rates makes it no contest.

[@PierreSimonsson]

ops Gazer :D as me always everywhere Ev youtubers dont know if i missed any EV youtuber less then 1000 subs :)

[@keithdenton8386]

Last year no waiting, at all at Tesla Chargers. This year there is waiting often, with with two chargers taken up by one non Tesla. Thanks for spreading this.

[@kimedwards3937]

Tesla was granted generator licence 2020 by Ofgem. Tesla have applied to be retailer of electricity. Tesla open up charging network to all. Well all the other charging network didn't see that one coming. £0.85 kwh with no customers how long can they carry on before they go bust. Great videos.

[@davetakesiton]

BP is also an energy provider, as are EDF and many others. Anyone who wants to could be and the government would probably give BP a grant, subsidy or tax break.

[@rbettsx]

Maybe this review of the market is intentionally short-term, but I think taxation deserves a mention.. it accounts for half to two-thirds of the price of private vehicle petrol and diesel. It's coming!. For sure!.

[@cgp747]

Perhaps Dave, you could make a vid with a list of the most unreliable operators, units and highest prices, particularly in the poorest served regions, like the south-west, with contributions from your subscribers🤔 Growing frustration at the number of inop units around the Bridport Dorset area and high cost when you do manage to find a serviceable unit. Also, many chargers hand over to 3rd party apps like monta to collect payment, but don’t have the ability to reset / fix units when directed to contact them for support😏 Tesla, if they knew how poorly served this particular region is, would surely install a load of fairly priced units for all EV users👍 Thanks again Dave for a really informative and useful channel.

[@davetakesiton]

good idea

[@TrendyStone]

Excellent!

[@simonreeves2017]

Hi Dave, greetings from Oxford. A fascinating insight into public charging. I currently run a BMW i3, but when the Tesla Model 2 becomes available, I will be joining the queue - probably a very long queue!

[@ouethojlkjn]

Funny that the only other car I seriously considered apart from the Tesla model three I finally got was a BMW i3. What a fantastic and innovative car, and why didn’t they carry on with it?!

[@borinvlogs]

@@ouethojlkjn Because they invested most of their money in creating bigger grilles.

[@ouethojlkjn]

🤣🤣🤣@@borinvlogs

[@MrDAVIDATKIN]

My first rapid charger of choice is Ionity because of the Polestar deal which makes it 35p kWh, secondly would be Tesla but they are limited currently the ones that are open to non Tesla drivers and at an average price around 50p kWH its stating to cost as much per mile as an ICE vehicle to fill. Lastly is Gridserve at 69p kWh. I won't ever pay more than that unless I'm really desperate. So no BP, Shell, Instavolt or Osprey for me.

[@foxylady1048]

Like your channel Sam, but I must let you know that I have a Nissan Leaf 2018, and I rarely have to wait up to an hour to charge my car on a 150 kWh charge. The most that I need is 30 minutes 40 tops, anyway no other car except a Zoe needs a Chadamo . Good show though. Well done on keeping us informed.

[@davidelson2728]

Well made informative video Dave, really enjoyed your talk on the change from ICE to Electric.

[@scaryfakevirus]

LOL

[@J3nk1ns66]

Was using a V4 at Reading west where Gridserve and Tesla chargers face each other, there was one other car another non tesla on the Tesla side (no Teslas) and 8 or so on the gridserve side, they were paying 69p I was paying 51p on Tesla for my non Tesla car. I said to the other driver should we tell them? I'm really surprised that not one of those on the Gridserve side asked us how or why we were using Tesla chargers when clearly not driving Tesla cars

[@rhiantaylor3446]

I was pleasantly surprised when on a recent trip through the Cotswolds to find the destination charger I was using only charging 34p/kWh for its 11kW - fine for a 2 hr top-up while dining inside. Almost all my charging is done at home at 7p/kWh from Ovo and I have no issue with paying even 79p to extend my range just a little to get me back home. The effective rate for a granny charger is currently about 28p since you are unlikely to benefit from EV-specific rates while at a friend's house and I think around 35-40p is a reasonable price target for public charging longer-term.

[@slartybartfarst9737]

Back in 2015 in my Tesla Model S P85 Im charging at one of the two Superchargers outside the Hyatt Hotel in Birmingham or two chargers at the basement of the Tower Hotel by London Bridge or one of the few at Scotch Corner the rest of the time it was a wing or a prayer with Ecotricity via my Chademeo adapter 9 years on 137,000 miles later its so easy now. Tesla will force the market just as they have with the cars. Tesla will fulfil its mission statement anyone or anything gets in the way will be dealt with and that includes ripping us all off for fuel by pricing mile for mile same as or more than fossil fuels......who wins? We do EV drivers. I adopted early trusting Tesla to stick to plan........Thanks Elon

[@Lemming1970]

Last bit " Don't tell anyone" LOL. Thing is he's told everyone and no one is listening, Now they are all running around like headless chickens. I'm in the fortunate position where I rarely use fast chargers (2 trips in 6 months), It's disgusting the price of fast charging, 85p/kw actually makes it more expensive than my wife's Diesel car.

[@Joeb4iley]

I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but Tesla is a registered energy supplier in the UK. They can buy and sell electric just like the other energy companys. If they can buy at instant grid prices they can get some very cheap electric.

[@Harrythehun]

And pay a premium when the price are higher.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Watch for Megapack installations at charge locations. Grid buffers, Autobidder trading the energy. Cheap power for the chargers.

[@cjmillsnun]

As are BP and others.

[@keithdenton8386]

I always filled up to the top as I hated going to the filling station to put smelly Diesel.

[@barryrathbone]

I took out the Tesla membership when I got my new non-Tesla this week and yes it’s cheap compared to the others. I do wonder when we’ll hear that the InstaVolt electric is better electric than the cheaper Tesla one like they do with Shell vs supermarket fuel!

[@alancobbin]

Thanks Dave 👍😉💪

[@MrGMawson2438]

Cheers Dave Tesla are in it to win it

[@RichardBacon-h5x]

Great video but I will make one point. Tesla really cheap rates to non Tesla non member users are usually at antisocial times. I have, on one occasion, paid 69p/KWhr at a Tesla site with GridServe charger directly opposite. I have never paid more than GridServe but Tesla prices are often only 10p/KWhr less at peak times on a 20KW top up charge that's 2 quid more at GridServe and not worth the effort of seeking out Tesla chargers that are open to non Teslas. So perhaps GridServe do have a cunning plan in their pricing and perhaps the off peak pricing is less of an issue if demand is down. This is a great question to put to them when you meet up.

[@narrowboatlongpod4176]

I think the peak rate is normally 4pm-8pm. I think that's quite reasonable. Manchester definitely has different times but is really cheap at those "antisocial" times.

[@chrisspain]

Here in Spain the big charging networks are getting into bed with Tesla, instead of going from 4 150kW chargers at a location to 12, they actually buy 12 Tesla chargers, owned by them but serviced by Tesla. That way, they get at least a chance to make money and Tesla saves loads of up front money. It is like a franchise. Also, the electricity is WAY cheaper here then in Britain. 80p? In a non Tesla that costs you more then in a reasonably priced diesel. Anything over 50Euro cents would be unsalable here. Slow 50kW chargers operated by cities or parking garages are free anyway. In Britain there seems to be a real problem, it looks like the big oil companies do not want the change to electric by making it more expensive, slower and more difficult to drive electric. Here it seems there are only Teslas if you are serious with going EV, all others are way more expensive, to buy, lease and operate or are not even available. My Model 3 costs less the a ID3/4 and really, that´s no contest. Besides, you have to wait nearly a year for it. The Model Y of my neighbor needed 2 weeks.

[@thelifeofbatteries2603]

Here in Benidorm there are a number of free 22kw chargers, Gracias

[@InBodWeTrust]

Dave - Gretna Green services has Ionity (near the BP garage), and Applegreen, Gridserve and Tesla near the services building. There's no BP Pulse there that I've seen (and I've used those services several times. Applegreen are the latest chargers there but they're a little erratic reliability-wise ... I'm aware of several people having problems getting a charge to start, whereas Gridserve and Ionity just work). Pricing-wise: Gridserve 69p 50kW non-shared (CHAdeMO or CCS) or 22kW Type 2 Ionity 74p 350kW non-shared Applegreen 79p 150kW 2 plugs shared Telsa I don't know - they're not open to all yet

[@hausi78]

Other networks could improve the charging experience by providing a roof and offering other conveniences such as restaurants and shopping possibilities. I'm certainly willing to pay a higher price for charging if the experience is great (like at an Audi Charging Hub).

[@lahithamalaki1005]

Wait to buy EV, prices are dropping take your time...

[@davetakesiton]

Good advice they should be dropping steadily, but don’t forget prices are only dropping slowly and by a few hundred at a time, so if you need a car go ahead and get one. It might be a few hundred cheaper early next year but if demand increases it could easily be a few hundred more

[@rogerstarkey5390]

There's another component. . Tesla is ready ro shake up the utility market in the UK. I REALY hope they leverage their licence for energy provision and take advantage of the ongoing (or soon to start?) investigation of Energy pricing to blow apart and undercut the current link to natural gas price (methane) not to mention the standing charge system. . If (for instance) they start major installation of Megapacks, Powerwalls (solar?) and leverage those as Virtual Powerpacks, they could be doing us ALL a major favour, while also driving charge costs lower.. . Dilemma for the price gougers?

[@briankavanagh7191]

Roger, hear, hear.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Dave! You TOLD everyone!! . (Last line!) 😉👍

[@andydrayton6139]

It’s rip off Britain again.. in France, Ionity 450kw chargers on the Autoroute are £0.51 per kw and even out in the countryside in the middle of nowhere you can get 350kw charging for less than £0.30 per kw with IECharge who are a company bringing their chargers to rural locations…..

[@timothygunter2541]

Hi Dave I have been watching you for a few weeks as a new ev driver ( I have a EC4 ) how do I find out where I can use a Tesla charger ? I'm in Northamptonshire and travel to Somerset twice a month.

[@asaha7547]

Tesla's website...select to show only Superchargers open to non-Tesla

[@crumbschief5628]

Average grid price before transport last week was 8.4p per kWh, an ev charger i believe costs in excess of £20k so at 60p per kwh profit, it takes 33,333 kwh of use just to clear install costs. That's 222 hours of use or 9.25 days of contuous use... Yup.. a continuous use has an income of around £90 an hour. That's pretty good going. They might be able to afford to drop. I wonder what their p&l sheet like?

[@davetakesiton]

not sure where you got the £20k from, last I heard it was over $100k per charger and bay.

[@cjmillsnun]

Is that a consumer or commercial rate for electricity?

[@crumbschief5628]

@@cjmillsnun I believe that's the average supply out the power station door. There will probably be infrastructure charges and other things on top of that and so I wouldn't take it as gospel so I probably messed up, but it's indicative of where pricing can start.

[@johnharvey1786]

@@davetakesitonIt’s definitely more than £20k for the larger units. From a recent project I worked on actual costs will vary significantly depending on the mains supply available, cabling to the units, trenching if in the soft or through a car park or access roads, then there is the cost of equipment required to run the system, such as transformers, switch gear, solar panels if they chose to have any, inverters, etc. The small 7.5kW units themselves are quite low cost usually under £5k and the larger units can be around £75k to £100k. Every install will be so different it’s almost impossible to give a cost per fitted and connected unit.

[@thelifeofbatteries2603]

@@johnharvey1786 not to mention the grubby fingers of the DNO's

[@robforrest12739]

I see that Gridserve had just announced price rises to 79p/kWh!!

[@evostu7814]

I’ve been driving EVs for over 4 years & never used a public charger & probably never will.

[@eyesuckle]

I assume you're rich enough to own a detached home.

[@SimonVassallo]

Unless you are Tesla you have lost the charger market. People will always vote with their wallets.

[@RobertLund-d7d]

Cant wait to see the chaos when there are 30 million EVs on the road all dependent on wind and and solar panels fof power. Pass the popcorn.

[@davetakesiton]

Yet South Australia seems to be creating 126% of its electricity from solar and wind. Do they know something we don't? and Norway have just completed 20,216 solar PV plants producing 373MW. Maybe you know more than them. I always say "will all those who say it can't be done get out of the way of those of us already doing it". Have a nice sunny day

[@williamclarke5287]

GRIDSERVE have today gone wrong with their pricing🙈.…..increasing price across there network of DC chargers from 69p/kwh to 79p/kwh.🙈

[@Paul-cj1wb]

The vast majority of people have absolutely no idea how long it took for gas/petrol stations to take hold. It took many, many decades. In fact, in the more rural sections of America, regular folks took to installing a pump or two in front of their stores and even their homes to provide that service and make a little money on the side, because it didn't make financial sense for the larger providers. It took so long for them, that even into the 1970's and 80's a few such pumps and locations still existed. People, especially the naysayers, have no concept of how much cheaper and easier and faster it is to install charging stations versus gas/petrol stations. That's why Tesla will become the new Standard Oil owned by John Rockefeller who at one point controlled 90% of ALL the oil in the entire world. And how did he get there? By undercutting ALL other producers. As far as competition to Tesla, we have to look in countries like Norway, where many providers exist and have competitive prices because of the massive uptake of EVs there. It's a look into the near future all around the world. However, big oil companies can't afford to do that since it undercuts their existing business model. How can they sell charging prices that are much cheaper than their gas/petrol prices? It would only speed up the EV revolution. That's why they are under the Blockbuster conundrum, which could not go into streaming since it undercut their business model. And that's why they went bankrupt. How can oil companies, which together spend hundreds of billions (it would be trillions of they wouldn't be subsidized by governments worldwide) every year exploring, extracting, transporting, and refining oil with an energy that can be created for free once the initial cost is recouped? Which for a business is a very, very short time.

[@davestarkie9977]

IMO The likes of osprey and applegreen will rely on (and likely already do) lack of user pricing knowledge to survive. When your in a rush or in a new location chances are they will pick up users who don't realise the huge price difference or just want a quick charge. Its a bit like how service station petrol pumps get away with charging so much.

[@Harrythehun]

Isn’t fast charging a service that may cost a fair bit more than the slow chargers? As for regular petrol stations by the highway.

[@davetakesiton]

Sadly I agree and they will moan about the price of EVs

[@yellowa4725]

And when the government come up with a way of taxing the EV market to replace the revenue earned from fuel sales then its going to become more expensive.

[@davetakesiton]

Of course, who really believes we have a right to use the roads for free? Not me

[@Muppetkeeper]

Actually, the value of Tesla buying the other charging networks is the land and the infrastructure. Most of the other charging companies sites already have a car park and the grid connection, THAT is the value of the competitions assets. Tesla could buy the competition, knock out the old chargers and install their own, it’s fast, cheap and easy. The Tesla plan could be to allow the weak competitors go broke, asset strip them, that’s what I would do.

[@Harrythehun]

You forgot the rent to landlord and their aim for higher revenue. And you forgot the cost of new servicing lines and grid connection. The excising have far to low grid power capacity

[@Muppetkeeper]

@@Harrythehun I’m an electrical engineer with a second degree in business. I didn’t forget any of those things. The value of the grid connection is greater than any rent issue in todays market place. Tesla also don’t need to reinforce a grid connection, most incoming EV charging stations are at 200kW or above, slap a Tesla battery on that, and with the correct cycle rating you can run 8 x 200kW chargers with no issue at all.

[@JohnoEx]

Tesla superchargers cheaper than others? this is not the case in Australia where most other networks are 55-65c/kWh whereas Tesla for non Teslas is 79-89c/kWh.

[@leplessis8179]

Hello, I'd like to pay with cash, please. I know that it's only a cordless lawn mower that I'm charging, but my garden looks such a mess at the moment!

[@davetakesiton]

sorry no idea what any of that means

[@davidadams5116]

I am a bit fed up of public chargers in Suffolk, if you can find one, as the price is either 79p or 85p a Kw. Luckily i dont use them often but its annoying there is never a small price drop

[@simoncoles2463]

You’re right that there will be a price war, and probably some CPOs going out of business. However, in the short term, every Tesla charger installed, including the new V4s, are 400V. If you have a 800V car, you won’t get anywhere near the advertised 250kW. If your car has a 400-to-800V booster, you’ll get about 130kW; if it doesn’t have a booster, more like 40kW. That means the owners of 800V cars are going to continue using Ionity, Gridserve and similar when they need a fast charge. Perhaps we will become the temporary milch cows of the other operators?

[@thelifeofbatteries2603]

i have a 400v booster and can max out at 150kw, agree it's not the 270kw i can get from IONITY

[@borinvlogs]

i don't now what all this means but i was seeing over 1060 miles per hour charging speed last time i used a supercharge and it was my first time using it. i was well pleased.

[@peterjones6640]

I see as at 30 Nov Gridserve has announced price increase to 79p

[@davetakesiton]

Yes, just got back from Sandbach services and saw it for myself, really bad news

[@spadge4773]

Well thought out. The cynic in me says that the public networks are simply price gouging those who don't own a tesla. Simple fix really, drive a Tesla

[@AndrewTSq]

only problem is that it cost $0.7 / kWh to fast charge a tesla in sweden. So its cheaper to drive ice.

[@stuartburns8657]

Such a moronic OP comment lol

[@matthewsmith6943]

Except that the majority of Tesla charge points are only suitable for cars with a left hand side or front charging socket. If I were to use a Tesla location my EV6 would need to park in the adjacent bay to the charge point for the cable to reach. Considering most of my charging is done at home for very little cost, I don't mind paying more for Instavolt or Gridserve on the odd occasion that I need to public charge, especially if that means I get a suitable length cable.

[@davetakesiton]

Not any more, check out the V4s with a 4 metre cable just for you

[@matthewsmith6943]

@@davetakesitonis every location now a V4?

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Strictly speaking V4 "Cabinets" at the moment. It's really a shame that the CCS Consortium (Bond Villain Organisation?) Didn't suggest in their early days (±2009?) that there be a common port location on vehicles? . What were they doing?

[@brushlessmotoring]

@@matthewsmith6943 not yet (V4's). You can also park to the right of the rightmost bay, and that won't take up 2 spots - not always available, and Tesla's drivers don't know to leave the rightmost bay free yet - but, generally, they are only making less busy sites open to all.

[@JohnCourtman]

@@brushlessmotoring Another option I've used is to go in forwards on the left hand side or park around the back where possible...

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Maybe they could give stamps !!!!!!!

[@shockthemonkey7046]

Tesla have just agreed to supply their charging units to third parties, point here is they are reliable and up to a 5th of the price(not just a 3rd) to produce of most others, I also heard there is huge government subsidy that hasn’t been taken up yet for expansion of charging infrastructure, let’s hope….

[@davetakesiton]

Yes partly true. While the chargers are better built, Tesla operates a team of charger service engineers constantly on the road fixing problems before they happen, like a dropped plug cracking. Will BP and co do that? No, no chance. And if your government is anything like normal it will all be for installation and none for maintenance repair and service.

[@brushlessmotoring]

@@davetakesiton do we know this? I was thinking about the BP deal to buy V4's and wondered if Tesla would still be maintaining and software upgrading them as part of the deal - it would be interesting to know what exactly BP bought - is it more of a service arrangement, with BP branding, or is it a one time purchase, and if they break .... who fixes them? I would assume Tesla would not want their brand harmed by bad actors letting the supercharger service degrade.

[@cjmillsnun]

You say Tesla could easily put up prices now. But the competition would survive, and would probably drop to those lower prices. You undercut by a huge margin that the others know is unsustainable and kill them off. You quoted Shell as part of the beginning of the oil industry, I suggest you read up on John D Rockefeller and Standard Oil.

[@davidhughes7665]

I use a petrol station so have no problem 😂

[@davetakesiton]

except the toxic carcinogenic gases your car spews out on the way there and back and in fact everywhere

[@solentbum]

Have you noticed how many petrol stations have closed in recent years? In my home town Havant it amounts to nine.

[@thelifeofbatteries2603]

so why do you watch these videos??

[@carlarrowsmith]

I don't think we've seen proper competition in EV charging yet. In the next few years EV charging will be discounted because the profit will be in selling food or overpriced sweets and coffee, just like petrol stations now.

[@davetakesiton]

Great point you can make more in food and drink than electricity thanks for info

[@chrisrussell418]

Another great video Dave. Did anyone ever expect BP or Shell to treat EV drivers fairly when for years they have been trying to con ice drivers into buying their petrol and then diesel by suggesting it contains stuff which makes it better. Independant test including my own have shown that the average ice car performs no better on Shell or BP fuel. Well what goes around comes around and they can't con us with electricity as its all the same, so like the others you mention they are just trying to charge us more for it anyway.

[@777Outrigger]

Maybe they can offer premium electricity.

[@ronb4633]

You talk about non-Tesla DCFC units as being antiquated and sharing power. 1. You know all Tesla Superchargers share power? You can’t get 250kW on all 4 plugs of a V3 unit? Also, the V4 units use V3 Cabinets as far as I have heard in all videos. 2. You carefully don’t mention Ionity which I believe never uses shared power and has 350 kW. (Similar to Electrify America in the States)

[@davetakesiton]

Maybe talk to the guys actually installing them before you make definitive statements. Much of your info does not agree with them and they make the connections

[@djtaylorutube]

While the third party chargers are not useful to Tesla, the extra site power would be...

[@davetakesiton]

Very good point, but who will sell the power and be limbered with the chargers?

[@djtaylorutube]

@@davetakesiton I would presume that Tesla would be the provider. My thoughts being that they could just replace the chargers with Tesla stalls, no need to care about the hardware, sell it off cheap. ;)

[@MrGMawson2438]

Hello mate

[@keithdenton8386]

Please hike prices to non Tesla cars, to 55p per KW then the others will match the price. They will have to. It make business' sense. If a charger is stilting there doing no business, reduce prices so that it is making some money. Think of mobile phones. competition drove down prices. The infrastructure is there, paid for so get people using it, at a lower cost. Remember something is only worth as much as someone will pay for it.

[@yurikislytsia8596]

Other networks can position themselves as a premium network of last resort for the peak demand times when superchargers have queues. Less tear and wear and much higher margins. Nice little earners 😅

[@davetakesiton]

its a thought

[@ohyesitsme]

Horses Feet? 😁

[@JustinCooperMarsh]

Hope that the Tesla V3 do not open. many EVs will take up two bays to charge.

[@davetakesiton]

let them if we get an additional bank of 12 or more V4s to use. Or like Rugby with 28 V3s, I've never seen it even half full

[@jamed63]

Perhaps if Tesla open all their chargers to all EVs they could then charge the same as Instavolt, Ionity, Gridserve, to all NON Tesla's, but reduce cost to Tesla drivers! A logical way to increase Tesla sales while at the same time effectively increasing the charger network for all. I have a Born and charge at home and work, but when I go on a holiday road trip all I want is a fast reliable charger, so if Tesla opened all the chargers I would use them even at 85p but I would probably then want to buy a Tesla next time I change car, If I could persuade the Wife, she hates them!

[@davetakesiton]

But that would be absolutely against all that Elon and Tesla stand for, never going to happen

[@MrGMawson2438]

Brb got to go make tea

[@MrAndrewBeattie]

you read the Master Plan out loud but missed the last sentence: "Don't tell anyone". It is meant to be a secret but now you've blown it!

[@davetakesiton]

Wow, never occurred to me if I didn't say it, people would read it

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Shhhhhh!

[@gerrycooper56]

So is Tesla losing money charging 50% of the opposition?

[@lesliecarter4295]

You have just described how the EV market will die. Well done.

[@PierreSimonsson]

as long as the prices is not advertised clearly at the charging sites ther will be no ruch to tesla many will still belvie that Teslachargers is only for Teslas even if they are open for all. Most people will not know they are open to all.

[@rwkh10]

The electrical grid will never be able to cope with the amount of EVs

[@davetakesiton]

It already does or hasn’t you noticed amid all the blackouts we’re getting

[@terrymackenzie6784]

A premium “charging service” service would look something like this “you turn up, plug your car in and then head for the coffee shop and come back sometime later to find your car charged and cost debited from your designated bank account” that’s a premium service I would pay for. On that basis all non-Tesla chargers out there are obsolete and need to be replaced. Not looking good for non-Tesla charging networks or legacy auto, the next few years will be very interesting.

[@matthewsmith6943]

That's available on FastNed. They also have overhead canopy, to keep the rain off.

[@djtaylorutube]

How can that be premium though when that's what the lowest cost operator already offers... to Tesla's? So yes, all the other car manufacturers need to catch up and play ball with the operators with ISO 15118-2. They have no interest though, they want to make compliance cars and say "oh charging? here have a discount card for 12 months and you can charge all over the place" *salesperson hopes the customer isn't well informed*

[@terrymackenzie6784]

@@djtaylorutube must look see what 15118-2 is worked in automotive most of my working life, retiering at the end of the year just when it's getting interesting 👍

[@rogerstarkey5390]

​@@terrymackenzie6784 From memory it's basically an ISO revision of CCS with provision for plug and charge. . I *believe* Tesla has been working to it for some time. . Shame it took the others getting on 14 years to catch up.

[@terrymackenzie6784]

@@rogerstarkey5390 I can't wait so thinking of changing my MG4 for a Tesla

[@THE-THATCH]

what a palava! That's definitely made up my mind for the reasons of not buying an EV thanks for that 👍

[@narrowboatlongpod4176]

If you don't do high mileage and can charge at home it's much easier with an EV. Plugging in at a rapid charger while you have a coffee really is not a problem in most places and will only get better.

[@AdamPurcell]

I wonder if the competitions authority might take an interest if it can be shown that Tesla is unfairly subsidising their charging network from other parts of their business. There have been cases where companies have done this to put the competition out of business and gain a monopoly. Regulators can take action in such cases. Yes, that might seem to be against our short term desire for cheaper charging but a Tesla (or anyone else) monopoly must be avoided.

[@puppet-head]

The problem with your argument is that there just isnt enough tesla chargers for the number of EVs, they will simply never open the busy ones, and there are also large areas without them.

[@Joeb4iley]

Every Tesla charger in Norway is open for public use.

[@djtaylorutube]

@@Joeb4iley Population of Norway is?... There's a difference in population and density of that population but I hope the UK can achieve better than now.

[@davetakesiton]

I don't agree, I spend my time driving from charger to charger and I have never queued once this year, many chargers are half empty, one at peak time, had 9 out of 12 occupied but still 3 spaces. Maybe you should have a drive around yourself, find multiple chargers fully occupied at different times of the day, take photos and video and show me what you mean. I would love to hear

[@brushlessmotoring]

Tesla builds based on data, as they add new cars to their network, they will build more chargers, they are fairly pro active in adding capacity to the network and monitoring charger health (fixing damaged stalls within days, not years). As Dave said in his setup, there were no petrol pumps to begin with, but they got built, so it will be with EV charging. I do agree on the charging deserts in the UK though - there are large areas with nothing, but, that too will be fixed over time.

[@djtaylorutube]

@@davetakesiton I feel like this is a cross between an old film and special effects where they blow up a model and film it from several angles and hope we don't notice. I'm feeling a special Daily Mail moment coming on where they find one busy charging station, photograph it from several angles and then drip feed these into the news feeds which subsequent get scraped and regurgitated. I'd share mine from Calais Eurotunnel yesterday but a lone car at a deserted supercharger set would be telling the wrong story!

[@MrGMawson2438]

I'm back

[@davetakesiton]

welcome back, never knew you went

[@Boogersncome]

This guy looks like my friends nan lol

[@matthewcoleman8267]

As a Tesla driver I'm dreading the superchargers being opened up to non-tesla cars

[@CodyDavis91]

Tesla is untouchable.

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

Too bad Europe is now trapped into the CC2 handle which was a plan by the ICE manufactures marketing departments to discourage EV adoption, glad here in Canada NACS has now become the standard. NCAS was designed by engineers to encourage EV adoption.

[@thelifeofbatteries2603]

Why is it bad?? You lot only adopted NACS so you can use Tesla chargers, over here we can use them anyway as Teslas are all CCS too

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

@@thelifeofbatteries2603 The European ICE manufactures marketing departments got their way, Tesla at the time did not have the volume to do the that fight. Now you are stuck with poorest of designs that should have died in the first design review.

[@michaelgoode9555]

I want to watch your content but I get fed up with your constant Musk fanboi stuff. Just because we don't have a Tesla does not make us Tesla haters. And Tesla (and Musk) are not always kind, ethical, decent and full of integrity either in my opinion. You're becoming the UK "Viking" and frankly I'm no longer interested.

[@davetakesiton]

sorry if I lose you, I get praised for saying it as it is and criticised for not censoring my experiences. Seems I can't win.

[@brushlessmotoring]

Tesla is more than Musk though (fortunately) it's thousands of people working hard to bring useable reliable charging to all, including non Tesla's - I'm not seeing anyone else come close to the charger scale, reliability, speed, upgrades and buildouts - all the other networks seem to think bunging two stalls in the ground at McDonalds and then ignore it's ZapMap low score and failed to charge reviews counts as providing a charging service. GridServe seems like the only other contender in the space who takes it seriously?