The Great Season 8 Debate feat. Eskay, Freedo & Jaws

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Timestamps
0:00 Opening Thoughts
7:00 Mauga
34:10 QP & Leaver Penalties
46:35 Counter Swapping
1:11:20 The Shop & Scummy Practices
1:24:22 Potential Hero Bans
1:37:40 Season 8 Patch Notes
2:47:10 Weapon Skins
2:55:05 Hero Mastery
2:59:40 Season 8 Releases
3:07:30 Concluding Thoughts

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 8th December 2023. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) or his second channel The Soak (youtube.com/@TheSoak ) where he does movie, TV & anime breakdowns! The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-season-8-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@frea2191]

Im all for leaver penalties in comp, but its kinda stupid in qp in my opninion. They should just remove backfill from all gamemodes and implement a "surrender"-button, people would be much more happy... Also i want to opt out of flashpoint and push... really fun, when u cant choose a gamemode, get qued into it and then get punished when u have the audacity to leave. Its really bad for everyone, you dont have fun and when you leave its unfair to your teammates... but this wouldnt be such a big issue, if Blizz would let people chose their prefered gamemodes...

[@ashleybatt551]

@@frea2191 map/game mode preference for quick play is an interesting idea it’s one of the things I like about map banning on rainbow

[@d4mephisto]

Freedo's face when Eskay said "my chat called it edging" LOL

[@brunoandrea4846]

thank god we have freedo

[@sergiogdg]

That was gold. Lmao

[@johnsonspark171]

Freedo thinking that Dota drafts last 30 minutes is wild. Clearly he doesn't know what he is talking about. HERO BANS NOW!

[@Mr_SamuelAdam]

timestamp?

[@tryingtochangemyways5074]

​@@Mr_SamuelAdam9:56

[@Link2855]

The "it hursts one tricks" argument against hero bans is so easy to fix by just making the draft phase totally blind.

[@lemon360]

Bans will inevitably hurt one tricks, even if the draft phase is blind. You're right in saying that it will stop them from getting sniped, but there will be games where they just can't play their hero because it got banned out, even if it wasn't targeted towards that player specifically. It's more likely to happen if the one-trick's hero is strong on a certain patch.

[@jayforty7]

@@lemon360 So does having people quadruple swap your main whenever you start to do better than them. It legit sucks having to swap every single time you hit the spawn room, regardless of Ults most time. When you go roadhog and they swap orisa, ana, kiri, there is nothing you can do. Having the chance to at least ban one of your counters allows you to be able to play the game every once in a while. Worst things worst is you have to learn a single other character, I understand having a one trick but also if you AREN'T tank and you have another player instant lock your one trick, you should have at least one other character you can play at a decent level. TLDR: Doesnt hurt one tricks as much as it benefits them imo

[@dylanbersano9488]

@@jayforty7I agree and don’t. Yes you can ban counters as but if your OT is “the meta” then you just don’t play the game. That’s also not your decision because you have no control over what the game devs decide “is meta”. I also see this hurting one tricks because let’s all think about it. You’re not picking till you’re already in the game meaning if I get unlucky and they do ban my hero I’m already in the game and it’s just essentially GG.

[@-.Outlaw.-]

One tricking is inherently bad for the game anyway

[@ashleybatt551]

Looking forward to banning all the mercy, sombra, junkrat one tricks

[@femtrapta5874]

"You've made this perception that counter swapping is a problem" Yeah I sure do percieve how anytime I lock Mauga, Rein, Winston, Ram, insert every tank here, out comes the Bastion, the Mei, the Ana.

[@mr.izanami1796]

6v6 is the answer. tanks will always need to swap due to the lack of tanks on the team.

[@Innersixeyes]

@@mr.izanami17966v6 is 100% gonna make the game worse

[@CJ-jk9mp]

​@@Innersixeyes5v5 is the worst decision blizzard ever made

[@Innersixeyes]

@@CJ-jk9mp could be so, but reverting it back with all the new heroes and abilities its just gonna be worse. Two meta tanks and everything else loses 😭 we need to let 6v6 go and focus on making 5v5 better.

[@CJ-jk9mp]

@johncarrion9548 the devs would rather Rework every single hero for 5v5 instead of a handful in 6v6. 5v5 will always be the lesser version ow

[@MansterBear]

I always play dps/support, but I’m too high of rank to play support with my friends… so I played tank/dps the other day… The counter swap thing is crazy. Literally every tank I picked the tank on the other team and one of the dps picked the counter every time. After like the 4th time I decided I was just staying what I was and wasn’t switching again. We ended up winning but it was like seriously? I get it if ur getting gapped or something but to have 2 ppl counter swap like 4 times in a row made me feel for the tanks lol

[@johnsonspark171]

A draft, no mirror comps, and hero bans would easily fix the problem, but Blizzard is too lazy and stupid to do anything about it

[@ZzsiegzZ]

I’m a support main and tired of high que times near masters. I was willing to give tank a go for a bit and had the same experience. So brutal and corny to swap nonstop

[@endless_del]

dvas the only tank i know how to play, and about a quarter of the games i play on tank, the enemy swaps zarya, mei, symm, all at once. most of the time its just 1 person counter picking, but sometimes it's like half the team and its so frustrating 😭 ive come to take it as a compliment, because i know that ive done really well that game up to that point. and if it's a high ground heavy map, i'm not worried at all haha

[@MansterBear]

@AlexisWenberg The point is they said counter swapping wasn't going to be a thing, and instead it's almost required. Again, it doesn't effect me much bc I don't play tank. But "swapping is fun" doesn't apply to all or even most people. And even if it did, Blizzard are the ones who said that counter swapping wouldn't be a thing and you could play whatever you wanted (which is what is actually fun to most people).

[@ZzsiegzZ]

@AlexisWenberg I think most people want to main 1-2 heroes they think are cool. Tanks swapping 4 times a game is so toxic, and whipping out the pharah mercy is such a loser move when ur team is getting skill gapped. This doesn’t apply to me much as I support, other than making long que times, but has definitely kept me from wanting to touch tank at all

[@smallertoast8806]

Not eskay putting on subway surfers lmao

[@iCuddleAfter6]

Based

[@dafaz4685]

actually playing during the podcast? kinda rude no? or do i not get the joke

[@smallertoast8806]

@@dafaz4685 it was a youtube video of subway surfers

[@lbunjes]

​@@dafaz4685she's just really active as a person and super smart...she can multitask and stay really present

[@eagerinspirit]

​@@dafaz4685 it's a podcast about a game it isn't a political debate

[@imfamouswarrior2976]

HOW DID NO ONE TALK ABOUT THE DIABLO PVE EVENT. I didnt even buy the PvE pack but Diablo PvE Event was super fun. Them actually adding new little abilities and being able to power up over the mode added a lot of replay-ability, I’d totally buy PvE if it had mechanics like that and I’ve yet to buy a single thing in OW2.

[@Vaz_G]

They did talk about it on an older episode, they basically said that its sad that its better than the actual ow2 pve

[@TruGmER17]

This is the season 8 podcast you gotta go back a few episodes.

[@rowanfink6687]

During queue set your personal bans, it gives time to finish once you find a game before showing map or enemy profiles. The game combines votes and maybe gives a tiebreaker team vote after map is shown. No extra time, nobody feels targeted, but players have agency over their game experience, especially groups.

[@CROSSFADE69]

Maybe one day we can get a dev on this podcast, Maybe...

[@thekinggenie8901]

would be cool, but it it a pretty long podcast

[@mangshu21]

you will get non answers so its a waste of time

[@lilwintery6434]

@@mangshu21 the flats dev stream was good and devs watch this podcast

[@Jereonn]

He literally had Geoff Goodman and Josh Noah (lead hero designers) on Group Up about a year ago

[@rioriorio17]

@@mangshu21bro has never watched a dev interview 🤣

[@kindergarten9239]

jaws’s take on casual player’s not swapping is not the case, the culture for casual overwatch (qp and metal ranks) is to swap to “the counter” every death, it’s true that a better player will win those games, but for casual players that doesnt matter. Playing casual overwatch (esp tank) is just 5 people going your most annoying match ups every single match, how many team fight wins on rein until orisa bastion rolls out, or on winston and bastion and torb comes out, ball with hog and sombra, etc. those interactions are very winnable but how many games can you play as a casual player of people playing the most frustrating match ups. if you watch a metal rank game it will literally devolve to tank dies and swaps, enemy dps dies and swaps. the culture of swapping is terrible right now

[@ReivecS]

When it comes to leaver penalties, the more the merrier. It is unfun from 3 sides. It is unfun when you lose 1 team fight and 2-3 players on your team bail (happens all the time and used to happen non stop before the penalties were in place). It is also unfun if you are winning a map and most of the other team bails and their backfills come in and are way stronger or play a better comp. In that case you get punished for success. And finally it is unfun to be a backfill and have to rush to get the lay of the land and do something impactful in the shorted time you have left. To me the only valid reason to leave a game is something else happened in real life that takes priority and you need to address that. In many cases those unexpected events are going to take time to address so even if you get a small penalty, you wouldn't be trying to requeue yet anyway. I do have full custody of a child so I understand the need to get up without warning from time to time but it isn't so frequent that I am going to hit these bans unless I am also rage quitting, which I don't do. If the game has no chance of success I will just try to make a new goal for myself of "How can I annoy the player that has killed me the most as much as I can before they win?". Now I have a new little mini game to work on.

[@bobothebob4716]

You lost me on the monetization talk. Myself included, from a western point of view, it's not a big deal to spend 15 dollars here or there. But when I play with my global friends, say from south America, or eastern Europe, they literally would have to not pay rent to get the roster of new heros. It's pay to win for those folks, and it makes you more likely to win if you don't have a poor player on your team. It's not ok, especially when they are promoting all these equality causes. What about economic equality? It's economic colonialism. Why are you forcing a counterswap meta onto people who can't afford to counterswap?!

[@kyubbikcat2281]

So you hate lamp and Bap regen burst? Well I have good news for you. Kiriko has both one one cold down on a 15 second cool down.

[@racmanov]

Kiriko overall is busted af. and has 0 weaknesses. We can argue about sombra but kiriko definitely is only char in game without weaknesses AND no counters

[@johnsonspark171]

Lamp, regen, rez, anti, sleep, suzu, life grip, and pylon all gotta go! Support is so laughably busted

[@kasshern]

@@johnsonspark171if they gotta go then what should be put in their place?

[@Real_MisterSir]

As someone who plays fairly sweaty in quickplay, honestly, my main reason is that I used to be very diehard comp player, but comp has deteriorated so much especially after 5v5, that it just doesn't feel worth it to invest the dedication and hours to achieve something meaningful ladder wise, so instead I just queue unranked and enjoy a bit more variety on my hero pool because I know the team comp isn't gonna be meta slaving anyways. But damn it if I don't kick it up in high gear if our team is falling behind, because I still enjoy winning and performing well in a team, that part has never left me. It's just, if I'm gonna play for something more meaningful in comp, then it has to truly be worth it. And in 5v5, it just aint it. I'm perfectly fine with others not sweating in unranked, people are supposed to play however they enjoy themselves as long as they aren't directly throwing.

[@lorddarkhart2775]

Instead of healing more the longer you're in Ult, you should heal for less instead. On cast you'll heal for 75 but the next second is down to 50, and so on.

[@w_out7631]

That doesn't do anything but make the useless healing even more useless

[@I_am_Bef]

The quickplay thing is so bad for me. My wifi at my uni halls is so bad that i quite often get kicked out the game and it counts as a leave ☹️

[@buffhorses3632]

So get a hotspot.

[@Bebopvicious00]

My only issue with Mauga is the damage he can do, for the health he has. He destroys all other tanks. So he has no counter but himself. So its another mirror situation.

[@tbagger5211]

I agree his damage is crazy and his range is stupid as well . Sigma is the best against him I think but he is op

[@nailinthefashion]

I think they need to just make the burn a gimmick and only do 1 or 2 dmg. He's a healthier tank when his identity is Orisa 1.0 and a corner peeker who charges in if they get a pick, to counter rez, to ult in. Right now, he's Roadhog from the bad times when he could 1v1 every squishy, easily 1v9 and just roam the whole time.

[@zachtalkssmack4470]

Zarya fucks him up

[@Siks7Ate9]

The first time I played mauga I had 22k dmg and 5 deaths. The next closest damage wise was the other mauga at 14k after that it was 6k.

[@biglovenick54]

JQ wins the 1v1 against Mauga

[@mito._]

So, the general sentiment I am hearing is this. SVB: "Hey guys, let's discuss these new changes" The Panel: "Hmm, yeah. All of these changes sound good to me." What's the point if there's nothing to really discuss? It's just longform coaching to accept things the way they are. I can play the game if I wanted to do that.

[@StriFe860]

Step 1: Queue Quickplay to have fun and chill Step 2: Realize you don't get to play any characters you'd like to practice or just play because enemy team is playing meta Step 3: Swap and be bored the whole match cuz you're playing stuff you always have to swap to or lose. Alternative step: Don't swap and get held in spawn the whole match. Take your punishment for trying to relax and have some fun in OW2! Let's be real though. Either way you don't get to have fun in this game anymore. Stomp or be stomped, boring ass gameplay.

[@Travsice]

Fax

[@backstabber3537]

play comp ?

[@DA-zc7kr]

Pretty much, this is how overwatch has always been, from conception to "sequel."

[@dirusj4006]

I didn't play for 6 weeks. Jump into QP on wrecking ball. Spend 5 minutes straight with enemy constantly countering me and then log back off. I made it to tier 30 on the battle pass

[@backstabber3537]

u mad cuz they countered u weak ass mentality bro so as a hanzo player i should quit when they play pharah/echo with mercy ?@@dirusj4006

[@jessewehrmam713]

I can’t wait for the follow up pod “The great edging debate”

[@jamesgantzer3786]

Corny

[@ashleybatt551]

@@jamesgantzer3786ok bro

[@muckdriver]

The kiriko personality thing hits so hard. I love her play style and design artistically. I don't mind some of the lines but I wish they would redo her lines to fit more into an actual mold rather than the vague perfection she has that you don't know what she's gonna say.

[@thenastyfridge]

Do you have a timestamp for me where they talk about this?

[@rioriorio17]

She’s gotta have some of the most annoying voice lines in the game

[@tropicata]

People need to stop thinking her voice actress is the issue. She's lovely and a really talented vocal performer. Kiriko's personality (and her annoying overly american accent) is entirely due to blizzard's vocal direction.

[@kin-3877]

@@shinyzigs she very much feels like a fan self insert. still my top 3 fav supports tho

[@ninthfriend3347]

Yeah I agree. In the animated short, we see her fun and lively character but in-game is the complete opposite. I feel that doesn't represent her as a character. I still love playing her because she's fun but her lines are....questionable.

[@mito._]

Ah, yeah. Almost forgot. If you can't swap heroes in PvE missions, why should people be allowed to swap anytime mid-comp?

[@ChimpRevolution]

1:08:16 Sorry but i dont agree at all with that point ram could easily be adjusted for 6v6 lower health pool on omnic and punch mode for one. Also he talks about him and rein as the melee comp like rein zarya wasnt the same thing if not better cause zarya has some range. Youd just adapt and play highground to counter its not as simple as pick this combo and win. Also I think 5v5 leaves for less tank uniqueness it's the reason balls playstyle is kind of ruined because you have nobody to hold the Frontline so flanking ball playstyle is way weaker.

[@owenkaplan2179]

the mythic/weapon skin sound effect problem is actually a really easy solve. Theyll either end up having the mythic overwrite the weapon skin (or vice versa), or more realistically, lowering the levels of one or the other in the mix so one sounds dominant and you can still hear the other but not to an annoying amount.

[@jsj0520]

My take on the un-ranked leaver penalties: the 4 hour suspension is a bit too long for 6 games but at the same time I’m so fucking glad they have penalties now, more than half of my games are ruined because leavers just rage quit and either my team or the enemy team just gets absolutely rolled. I’m not sweaty at all, I don’t care if I win or lose I just care if it was a fair match or not and leavers always ruin it. I’m not gonna sit here and act like I’m flawless, I have left a lot of games myself either because something urgent came up or I was just having a shitty day and I do rage quit. But I have never gotten a ban ever since it has been implemented because I still stay in the overwhelming majority of my matches unlike the player I get where at least once per game someone leaves mid match.

[@spookiboys]

its wild for leaver discussion stuff cause other games like r6 hit you with an hour penalty for leaving your first unranked/quick play game, just at all and its pretty much fine. if you have to take a break and something comes up irl then you wont be coming back to the game for a bit

[@amgkv2.025]

If I wanna leave my fucking quick play game, I should be able to without being suspended for any reason. Whether I want to leave because I don’t wanna play that match or because I just wanted to play for 5 minutes, or because I just want to fucking leave. It’s my choice and the whole point is that its just quick play and it shouldn’t matter. Why would they make me stay in the game if I already don’t want to be there

[@lordenbogo6972]

Svb I love falling asleep while listening to your podcast! ( and I do rewatch from where I fell asleep 😂)

[@Bluemansonic]

Same lol

[@mr.meeseeeks5544]

So I had a game where every time I used Mauga Ult my weaver pulled me out and it felt amazing. Trapping 2 or 3 peoppe then being able to shoot the people inside was crazy

[@AbbyOW2]

Good morning, excited to sit through this podcast and have a listen, might do an edit and drop my own thoughts down below after the video itself, as always, thank you so much for your hard work and dedication SVB, cheers!

[@CROSSFADE69]

would love to see that video!

[@AbbyOW2]

Oh I just meant as a comment :D@@CROSSFADE69

[@connorm3436]

Im sorry but hearing people defend the paying for new hero’s is insane to me. It’s blatant pay to win, it sacrifices all competitive integrity for profits, it also kills the hype for new hero’s as the majority of players don’t want to pay such a ridiculous price every time. Every new hero discourages anyone returning to the game as it just makes returning more expensive.

[@meru_lpz]

Agree. Specially when the new hero is overtuned. Which Mauga is. 🥲

[@Johnsmith36346]

@@meru_lpzthat’s a lie he is no where near op, easily countered by nade or ranged damage

[@meru_lpz]

@@Johnsmith36346 & nade countered by kiriko's suzu which got buffed...

[@mangshu21]

@@Johnsmith36346 except mercy moira is an extremely common duo in lower ranks and these people do not play ana or swap

[@Johnsmith36346]

@@meru_lpz bro idk about u but most kiris in my games never save suzu for nade, and usually bc kiri has less heals than Ana she has to use suzu earlier in the fight.

[@robertchitty3603]

2:01:26 making everybody angry is kind of a core overwatch development philosophy

[@d4mephisto]

cheers to another Group Up Podcast!

[@TheNeoMc]

I'm fine with counterswapping; the issue is hard-counters. The issue is like they discussed where Mauga is absolutely busted with an Ana/Kiri support line but yet he falls over if his Kiri doesn't Suzu the anti off him. Same with Bastion deciding you cannot play Reinhardt. Devs do seem to be balancing around anti-nade rn and it is not healthy.

[@thenipplethiefo2417]

Also for any new account it’s like 35 wins for some characters. It should just be complete 35 games because in qp, winning 35 is gonna take a while. Especially if you can’t switch to a tank that counters. Very odd to have such a counter pick game but lock characters behind a pay wall.

[@endless_del]

one of my sisters just started playing overwatch so ive been queuing up with her. i didnt know much about the new player experience (or however its called) so i was asking her questions abt it bc i was curious. it was actually pretty shocking and disappointing to learn HOW MANY games you need to WIN in order to unlock heroes. they need to make it a "wins grant double progress" situation like some of the challenges are. for someone who is brand new, and especially if this is their first fps, it's going to take ages to get the roster, especially factoring in the BP heroes. which are upwards of 50 wins to unlock. another thing that upset me was that practice vs. ai did not count toward unlocking heroes. there is no reason to even HAVE that mode if you're going to basically force new players into "real" matches. playing against bots is such an excellent way to learn the fundamentals of the game that i cannot BELIEVE they excluded new players from it by not granting progress toward hero unlocks.

[@Nyxtia]

Jaws calling SVB "SUV" is too funny man

[@DriplessShrimp]

Quickplay is supposed to be casual. I have 4 kids and its almost impossible to get a full qp match in. Why should I get penalized for leaving a match against a bunch of tryhards when I have to do real life stuff. Add unranked then take quickplay penalties away and add them to unranked. Add more severe to comp.

[@actionmarco8556]

Yes, 100%

[@bigfudge2031]

If you can't even manage 1 quickplay game, then why bother playing in the first place.

[@DriplessShrimp]

@@bigfudge2031 because its a game I bought years ago that I like to play sometimes

[@DarkEnd.]

Listening to Jaws try to justify p2w in a competitive shooter kinda irks me

[@jalendixon5894]

I will NEVER agree when they say 5v5 gives you MORE options. Mathematically, strategically, etc. Its just flat wrong. Wrong. Nomatter what way you look at it. This game is SIMPLER, and worse now.

[@jalendixon5894]

Double shield is not a 6v6 problem. Its a balance problem. Straight up.

[@SergentInvictus]

I really hope we can customize the color pallete of these weapon skins. Cause if the most we can do to them is slap some gold or emerald... it'll be frustrating i can say that. For examples sake, what rein skins would look good with hardlight hammer? Default or gold.

[@thedofflin]

The thing that everyone overlooks with counterswapping, and is probably the reason why the devs are suggesting it might just be perception, is that all heroes have things they are not good at. So, if your team swaps to counter a specific enemy such as the enemy tank, that doesn't guarantee a win it just guarantees that you shut down that player's ability to play the game, and can open your comp up to countercounterpicks, causing you to lose the game despite their tank being unable to play the game. In other words, you lost to a 5v4, because their remaining 4 heroes who can still play the game beat your 5 hero composition. Now, this means that the devs look at win rates and don't see a clear issue with win rate, despite players frequently having awful experiences with hard counters. I'm willing to accept the devs at their word that counterpicking isn't necessarily a reliable strategy to win games, but I still believe that heroes can be super hard countered.

[@KingOfNebbishes]

Sounds to me more like the devs understand that people feel bad when they're hard countered, but they don't care, because they've decided that hard countering IS the game. Therefore, they'll gaslight folks into thinking that you should just feel bad when playing, because that's natural.

[@wicked04]

hard counters being anti nade to sustain tanks (mauga and hog) and as a result mauga got gigabuffed to overcompensate to only mimic a fraction of anti nade’s power. nade needs to get reworked. sombra hacking ball being the second hard counter. don’t know of anything else that hard counter rock paper scissor style. I agree and like swapping for counterplay but those interactions are insufferable.

[@Johnsmith36346]

@@wicked04I completely disagree I’ve had plenty of sombras not be able to kill ball and Ana is played by a bunch of morons who use anti at beginning of a fight when suzu, lamp, tank cd like zar bubble, shields are still up and no teammates are around to follow up.

[@rioriorio17]

The reason perception is bad is because counter picking is the antithesis of skill. A 4 year old can learn how to counter pick, it’s not skillful whatsoever. “I see this, I choose this” A high level player would say “I play X character near perfectly but they go X character’s counter(s) and just exist and I just can’t get value anymore” Spilo has always said in a vast majority of cases outside of high level play loosing to counters is a skill issue and I completely agree with him. The skill expression should be to learn how to play around your counters. Though in many cases the game is balanced to where that doesn’t FEEL possible to the player because of how impossibly difficult it can be at times.

[@thedofflin]

​@@KingOfNebbishesHaha exactly, they've decided that counterpicking should be in the game even though some simple changes would reduce it dramatically, and i believe most people dislike being counterpicked and having to swap off their preferred hero just to win the game. As the saying goes, when given the opportunity gamers will optimise the fun out of a game.

[@IsMyNameUnique]

the problem with qp is that all the tryhards who are scared to play comp stay in qp and they, since they are at the point in their ow lifespan where they cant handle losing, flame their teammates constantly i actually prefer playing comp or mystery heroes 24/7 because of how awful qp has become, and im what most would consider a "casual" player in plat

[@rezq9109]

This is not a debate. This is four people repeating same arguments in different words.

[@TheStevopb]

It's a simple as if there are heroes you are forced to swap to then there's more heroes you'll have a reason to buy a skin for if you just one trick a character then you wouldn't be buying skins for other heroes in the same role.

[@donnyboy7067]

Freedo would be the nemesis of the game awards speech music

[@mr.izanami1796]

he is the yappmaster, thats for sure

[@0NEH1TMAN]

You know the guy is counting down the days for the next podcast to happen.

[@Rio-un5jl]

him and flats are the most "guys i told you all and no one believed me, but i knew all along 🤓" ppl in the community hahah, no hate though i dont mind them other than that

[@ashonline77]

​​@@Rio-un5jl it's always 'guys remember when I overreacted about something a year ago and now it has a 50% chance of actually being true a year later so I'm gonna reach as hard as I can and enjoy my "I told you so" moment' with flats.

[@dafaz4685]

Dude I listen on 2X and I still have to skip his parts. RAMBLE KING

[@TR-ju5re]

Add map voting or no penalty for leaving in the first 10-15 seconds of a match beginning, before the spawn doors open. You shouldn't be forced to play maps/gamemodes that you hate in a unranked/casual play. If those maps/gamemodes have a tougher time retaining players, maybe look at adjusting them instead of punishing the players and saying " YOU WILL PLAY THIS AND YOU WILL LIKE IT." Leaving before a game even begins has no serious effect on the game that will be played so its not hurting those who stick around.

[@YourBlackLocal]

People ignore how many wins it actually takes to unlock characters. I made a new account and it was 35wins (as a tank.) just for Ram.

[@garikek]

Yeah! And that's for every fucking character. That's ridiculous!

[@PoeticMistakes]

Have y'all never played league? Or siege? Or any other goddamn free game? Hell TF2 basically had locked classes you had to pay for through the items

[@dontaskdude682]

I got Ram by killing 5 bots in the practice range

[@353darkesthour]

What if you couldn’t swap heroes unless you’ve used at least one ultimate on your selected hero?

[@emilegarcia2369]

"QuickPlay is way too sweaty." Holy shit this. Its supposed to be the chill mode cause Arcade doesnt always meet that itch (cause of the diff rulesets)

[@cnnr_]

It's because comp currently feels shitty so a lot don't play. Make comp feel good for the sweaty "I need to win!" quickplay only players, and quickplay will 'quickly' become casualplay

[@User-pu3lc]

Overwatch could make swapping feel good by making your swap choice more environment dependent vs opponent hero choice dependent. There’s a bit of that now, but I’d still say the opponents hero choose is a bigger consideration that maps that force close fights vs long sight lines. That way you’d see teams swapping comps dependent on what portion of the map or stage they are trying to win out instead of what the other team is running

[@MansterBear]

You idea gave me an idea... Maybe you can only swap when a new point is reached. So you're stuck with your character until you get point 1, then everyone has the opportunity to switch on their next death after a check point is reached? Maybe something like that. Or just a standard cool down. Like you have a 5 min CD on swapping heroes?

[@fuscello]

1 second lingering contest on doom ult? That will be 20% more ult charge, sir

[@AlexTheHorrid]

I finally uninstalled Overwatch the other day after years of playing. Feels kinda good. The games just not what it once was to me.

[@Qidl_]

see u next week 🤝

[@actionmarco8556]

​@@Qidl_ hehheeh for real. OP wouldn't be listening to this podcast if they weren't still going to play OW.

[@zeyfuller]

I uninstalled last season. I'm still interested but there's so much I don't like now, I don't actually want to play.

[@AlexTheHorrid]

@@actionmarco8556 I’m still somewhat interested in what’s going on in the game but I haven’t played. I got a steam deck and I’ve been more occupied with that for the past 3 months lol. I can feel myself slowly with drawing from the community

[@AlexTheHorrid]

@@zeyfuller same. Still watch videos but not as much as I used to, and haven’t played in 3 months at this point

[@JumpsOw]

It would be nice to have a dev in the pod cast to talk about more polemic stuff like 5v5 vs 6v6 and role passives it would be like the great great debate with devs or something like that.

[@Tron3108]

Mercy, Rein and Tracer also got the first hero obstacle courses right? I wonder if they will go in a similar order or if again, those are the "base" character for each role.

[@rangerguy]

I got the kpop bias wrecker title in like 2 days. It was an awful experience but it was super easy if you instalocked brig and knew how to play. At worst it was a time investment and a patience check getting through the matches with a bad team/good enemy team

[@cameton_youtube]

Love the festive overlay 🎉🎉

[@BloodRain222]

Always a treat when i see one of these pop up

[@WildWing44]

I would really like an unranked competitive playlist. I play on PC and all my friends play on console so we cannot play comp together but still want to try and semi sweat when we play. So I would appreciate a mode where others are also trying and not just goofing around half the time.

[@paulsammuel1231]

What if they offer 6 swaps a game? 3 per round and hybrid and flashpoint you just get 6 the whole time. Swapping from the same two heroes won’t count(ie going back and froth from Hog to DVA) that way you have access to 3 heroes per round and I think that’s could translate well when it gets properly tweaked. 🤔

[@johnsonspark171]

No. Hero bans is the ONLY way

[@IHJello]

This show started with opinions on Mauga. Eskay says she likes him, Jaws says he probably trash. Zero mention of Mauga being too good until Hawk in the chat says hes OP. Jaws seems shocked. Me at this point: wtf? You're telling me hes going into ranked as is? ONE HOUR LATER Eskay: Mauga is busted, hes broken, hes completely OP. Me now: Finally! Where was this earlier?

[@jonanderssunde]

SVB, I really do absolutely love your podcast and I listen to every episode. But, can you please look into the audio crackle issue? Examples: 54:23, 1:04:47, 2:26:55

[@danielschenker1969]

YES this. I have tested this with multiple headphones, my computer, my phone, and so I know it is a part of the video, and this isn't the only episode. I have been binge watching the last 6 months of group up podcast episodes, and it's in every episode. It is EXTREMELY loud and painful on the ears. Otherwise, I love the podcast, just fix the audio issue please. Thank you!

[@tylerbalazic4592]

If someone's going to throw because they can't leave whatever, having multiple leavers in a game of qp already throws the game anyway.

[@ZzsiegzZ]

I love season 8 but the two worst things are nonstop tank counters, and the enemy going pharmercy everytime they face any difficulty. Ana nade still seems really strong/kinda cheap. even with a kiri counter my ally could get bursted or out of position before suzu hits, or I might’ve already used suzu saving someone

[@colkly]

37:22 SVB how you gonna expose me like that 😂

[@333Abs]

I don’t know how it would effect queue times… I’d love to see them re-introduce another tank with a whole separate role (off tank role) . In which the off tanks are balanced to be a bit more squishy with a bit less damage than they have now , but centred around protecting the main tank or taking pressure off the main tank by pressuring back lines. (Dva, Zarya, Hog at least, maybe some others too)

[@johnsonspark171]

Give it up. 6v6 is NEVER coming back

[@Siks7Ate9]

Hog is not a offtank. Like at all. All hog does is soak up damage. He doesn't have anything to protect his other tank. Hence hog with zarya dva was always the maintank. Because both dva and zarya can protect him with bubbles or matrix.

[@333Abs]

@@johnsonspark171 and that’s a terrible decision , that’s the point of discussing balance …

[@333Abs]

@@Siks7Ate9 fair enough! I was under the impression he was more of a flank style who pressured dps and supports rather than a main tank

[@Siks7Ate9]

@@333Abs if he flanks he doesn't help his other tank in any other way except for when the map allows flanking and he times his flanks perfectly allowing the other tank to walk forward without getting shot at. Seeing as most maps don't have that many flank routes that are quick enough to complete that doesn't work. And if the enemy team has a brain every time they dont see a hog they just rush down the other players and hog will die after that.

[@thenastyfridge]

As someone who plays a LOT of Quickplay - nobody really takes issues with people who leave early on in the match, or in the middle, or between rounds. The problem are the people who leave when there's less than a minute left on the clock and no way to compensate for a player leaving, even with a backfill. It's the people who dip out in the last teamfight and actively *make* it a loss with their leaving, just because they cannot take the DEFEAT screen, that screw the rest of the players over. And those have been the MAJORITY of leavers in QP.

[@levanoon9286]

You need to get back samito into this

[@teaadvice4996]

I can't believe they're defending qp bans

[@ItsMihali]

Make it a perma ban 🤣 QP leavers are babies

[@ChimpRevolution]

​@@ItsMihalitbh it's not that big a deal I rarely leave except for when my friends get on so I can join then and play comp. If you want a hardcover expirence play comp leave QP as casual

[@ItsMihali]

@@ChimpRevolution Perfect! So when you leave those 1 or 2 games the penalty doesn’t affect you 👍 anyone whinging about a penalty for leaving 1 in 5 needs to get over it

[@ChimpRevolution]

@@ItsMihali It's more of an inconvenience real question if you want a full competitive game why not just que up ranked ?

[@ItsMihali]

@@ChimpRevolution stomps are one of the main reasons why people want to leave games. You know what guarantees a stomp? A leaver(s). It’s not fun - yea, even as a casual experience - to get crushed (especially if it’s “gg” from the start). All the leavers agree with me

[@tyg-zw7nn]

I mean 6V6 would be amazing if they split tanks into Tanks and Bruisers so you couldn't do double shield. and Rework a bunch of them. Do the same for healers. Only allow one primary.

[@garikek]

Or you could just nerf heroes like sigma and orisa who both could at the same time have a shield down and be able to shoot you. And on top of that both of them have either fortify or grasp, which is an ability to soak up damage while your shield is on a cooldown. Heroes like rein, Winston, zarya, dva don't even come close to that level of uptime. Zarya now has 2 shields for herself and it shows how incredibly hard it is to kill her. Back in ow1 she only had 1 bubble for herself. Double shield was enabled by 2 overpowered tanks that could do everything and on top of that Baptiste only made it stronger with his ridiculously overpowered kit. Nobody ever complained about rein Winston or rein orisa or like rein sigma. And if they did it was mostly due to the existence of that sigma or orisa hero that just breaks the game. The reason double shield felt awful is because when shields were down you still couldn't deal damage to tanks because they just pop fortify or grasp and survive and then their shields are back up. Orisa even though got reworked still has that insane cooldown cycle but instead of shield she has javelin spin but holy is fortify overpowered now. And sigma is literally the same and still has a very low downtime. Double shield is literally a hero balance problem, not a format problem.

[@tyg-zw7nn]

Yeah but they clearly were divided into Main tank (shield) and off tank (bruiser) like any other moba. They just decided to not define it that way. And then reworked everything and it's a mess now.@@garikek

[@ChimpRevolution]

​@tyg-zw7nn tbh orisa doesn't have a shield anymore. The main problem is these support cooldowns being too high along with sustain being ridiculous. Lower heals overall rework immortality to be a damage reduction field

[@garikek]

@@tyg-zw7nn I'm generally against restrictions. So in my vision it's better to allow players to maybe combine like zarya hog or dva zarya but tanks just shouldn't be op. I understand that in an instant that tank roles separation would solve some issues, but it's a band aid fix and in the long term it's even bad because then you lose out on a lot of team composition variety

[@rooftooth]

Opponent skin visuals and sound effects should have an option that you can keep everything on default client side. Just like Capcom does with Street Fighter 6.

[@titan_main]

I feel like the way you unlock new characters is honestly pretty well implemented for actual new players (pretty tedious for people making an alt acount, but for genuine new players who never played OW1 or OW2, it makes sense). You need to play 150 games just to unlock all of the OW1 characters, and the new OW2 characters are completely separate, but can be unlocked at the same time. 150 games sounds like a lot, but there are 27 maps in rotation (2 flashpoint, 3 push, 7 koth, and 14 payload maps). There's a very real possibility that you could play 150 games of quickplay and not even experience both attack and defense on every payload map and all 3 zones on every koth map. You could have someone who just unlocked echo after 150 games and is playing attack on pariso for the first time. You need 41 games minimum to play every version of every map in QP (27 + 14 to see both attack and defense on the payload maps), but you need RNG to give you something new every single game, and every single koth game needs to go 3 rounds. Also even if that happens there's a chance you don't even see every point of every payload/flashpoint map if you're getting rolled on attack or you're rolling on defense. The mechanics of the game are so deep that your first 50 or so games you're still genuinely just trying to figure out what each hero actually does and what each map plays like, unless you have a friend teaching your or you've watched like tutorial videos. You can also unlock the OW2 characters way faster than the OW1 characters if there's a specific one you want. I'm a Kiriko main now, but I started back in OW2 season 2 and didn't even know she existed until like 30 or so games in then I saw her TPing around and thought that was pretty cool so I looked into how to get her and it was basically just win 25 games on support (plus a bunch of other stuff that naturally gets done by the time you get 25 wins on support). I unlocked kiri way before I unlocked echo, but while I was unlocking kiri I was still making progress towards unlocking all the OW1 characters at the same time, and the other OW2 heroes at the time (JQ and Sojourn) kind of just got done naturally.

[@ralseidagoat]

I am a TF2 player so I have a bit of a biased take, but QP leaver penalties are fucking stupid. It's quickplay. The entire point is jump in, jump out, hop servers, it doesn't matter. No (visible) matchmaking, no team coordination, no balance taken into regard, just load up OW and go. Don't like the match you're in? Hop servers and find another. But now the game says uh-uh fuck you go play something else. And fine, I will. Prolly not playing much season 8 anyways tbh, none of my friends want to play OW2 rn. They all hate the game in its current state lol

[@denzellward5499]

You wanna fix counter swapping and do it the right way? Dont do hero bans. Just do hero picks. Tank picks 1 Each Support picks 1 (2) Each dps pick 1 (2) Tank picks 1 (2) Each dps picks 1 (4) Each support picks 1 (4) Each dps picks 1 but only 1 can be used. This creates a 50/50 chance unless both decide on a singular hero.(5) Tank picks 1 (3)

[@denzellward5499]

Neither team would know the other team’s picks. This would limit counter swapping heavily but still allow you to play the hero you want

[@denzellward5499]

Each hero draft would be between each round so you can have more options

[@penpoint9358]

Ya yall don't have kids or a wife I use quick play for I got 10 minutes while she getting dressed for something or I the kids are playing I have to able to stop if the kids get into something or start crying in a rank match I will have to stop and handle that I know the game important but there no pause so this really just hurts parents and for the fip side I don't wanna have to stay in a game with a toxic player I should have to be stuck in a match with them or I wanna try a new hero or get better with someone I don't main I take rank seriously and that's how it should be. You go to the park to try new moves you don't do that in a real life basketball tournament

[@williehawkinsii4845]

Will last week quick play my team lost because 3 times in a well one of the support players quitted what's in a minute or two of going into the game leaving no one to heal me and near the end of the game the DPS players will quitting as well

[@rowanfink6687]

Say you start a game in Winston. Enemies go Reaper + Bastion/Hanzo/Soujorn with Zen Baptiste and JQ. (Any “tank killer” comp). Then what tank do you play? Careful Zarya every time, I guess. We just need anti “tank killer” tanks so Mei, Reaper, Bastion etc. don’t dominate 90% of ranks.

[@itznordak]

overwatch shop, is super similar to valorants shop so the comparison saying it doesnt do that right actually made me so lost

[@questionable_live]

people either need hero swap limits or you need a ban system

[@Siks7Ate9]

The biggest thing i have that makes counterswapping problematic is that the most effective heroes to swap to to counter are all incredilby easy to play and get value from. Mei bastion for example is so easy to just screw a tank over with. And those are heroes that require your teammates to deal with them as tank. Because if you try to do it yourself as tank you spend too many resources while they get pocketed. And then they wall or use bastion shift afterwards and you die because of you not having those resources. There is barely any skill expression heroes that people use to counterswap. When have you ever seen a cassidy swap to ashe to counter a zarya? Because ashe destroys zarya because she can't get close not block the damage output. No, instead they just swap to bastion untill the zarya goes sigma or dva, and bastion will just go mei.

[@aguila7686]

I love running widow, opponents switching to sombra, genji and winston. Especially when you can hear her crouched footsteps from spawn to spawn.

[@kin-3877]

widow is arguable the most dangerous character to leave uncontested. she can shut down a lobby on her own. they'd be crazy not to fight you

[@abduktedtemplar]

Lifeweaver can pull someone out if the cage?!? That’s ridiculous 😂

[@strawberrydialectics]

also "in other games you go to the hero and all the cosmetics are right there" yeah thats how overwatch 1 used to be. you could see most skins you didnt have (except OWL ones i think) even when they werent available. now i have no idea what i dont have until they show up again. i just wanna browse the cosmetics, man. the ow2 menus are so bad

[@The_Nomad_Channel]

I would support a system where you choose 3 hero’s going into the game, and you can only play those 3 hero’s, and you can swap between them freely.

[@tehrag]

If the weapon skins are more than 500 credits, they are too much

[@elkosins1686]

ive increasingly come to realize overwatch 2 is just blizzard completely giving up on any story overwatch had....from the skins to the pve cancellation and even the creation of the new characters....the exception being mauga who was alreay a part of the story

[@drbornawesomeness3263]

If you don't have time to play a 5-10 minutes qp game then don't queue you'll be okay

[@chunk1179]

jaws is very sweet and well intentioned, but he does talk over eskay a lot, just something to be aware of!!

[@floofflez1134]

Just something they do a lot in PlatChat so I didn't even notice it at all lmao

[@JJay7042]

Something that should be done if heros are gonna be in the BP, when the season is over the hero should be out for free for everyone that didnt complete up to level 40 or didnt buy the BP. Having to do dumb challenges and spending so many hours just to get the new hero is silly, on top of having an option to buy the heros anyways is even more upsetting. If they did this i dont think many people would be upset about it.

[@denzellward5499]

I personally dont like the idea of being able to be healed while being impermeable but if u wanna fix doom…. Give him a burst heal of 150 and 20 healing per sec while healing. This would give an option to either be instantly aggressive or use it passively without healing him to full hp. (Note. When doomfist hits a target he gets overhealth so you’ll land with with guaranteed 200+hp)

[@denzellward5499]

Do not decrease the ult cost by any more than 5%. His skills are far too easy to hit. Decreasing his ult cost will mean they’re gonna nerf him somewhere else. Just dont touch it

[@_reigner]

Thank you SK for bringing up the scummy shop practices! I was almost scammed with the zombie skin as well. Awful

[@praetorianplays]

people are leaving more games than COD players. Its so disruptive. I can't just play QP and have fun because more than half of my games have leavers which makes it near impossible to win. It's rare that a team with the leaver wins. So the only way I get a full experience is to play sweaty comp. Especially when its last 10 seconds and you def lost. you shouldn't be allowed to leave that close to the end. Jaws complaining about double shield when that's basically what you're playing now... lol

[@marcusbullock2753]

What if the next tank is a shield and Damage tank but they have no mobility and they can shoot hella damage from a distance. Like a plasma rifle lazer from halo.

[@s1lveralkaro900]

As tired as the high rank players were/are of double shield, low/mid rank players are tired of hearing about it. Double shield is quite literally a 1st world problem. I played from bronze to plat during that meta and I can count on one hand how many times I played double shield. Double shield is one of if not the only main argument against 6v6, but no one talks about the fact that double shield physically can’t happen to the extent anymore. It was only such an issue because of how long we were left with it. Goats was much more unhealthy than double shield but goats didn’t last as long so it doesn’t get brought up as much. This isn’t 5v5 v 6v6, it’s 6v6 v recency bias

[@oBlackIceo]

I wish both the community and the dev team would decide whether or not the game is casual or competitive. That’s where 90% of the problems and bickering stem from

[@marcusbullock2753]

Lotta stuff going on in that bottom left corner lol.

[@elhubro2386]

counter swapping is a big problem, because it can t be solved with 5v5. a other reason this counter situation sucks is, if you don t have a counter to mauga (or some other hero) on your team, he destroys everyone. the other way around mauga needs supports to babysit him... in the end everyone is forced to play heroes, they most likely dont want to play. shit game design.

[@lastdayer101]

"Overwatch esports got so much more popular after the 5v5 change." I don't give a fuck about esports, I want to play the game I loved with my friends.

[@lantisrx]

I never saw so many AFK players in QP because of the penalty. They ruined the game and are not alone; they are in parties. If you complain, you get reported because they don't want to swap to win or quit to give other players a chance to come and fix the issue. Before, I didn't complain because there was no grind for the challengers, and it wasn't so important to swap to have fun; it's not just about the win. You will not have fun if your team is on respawn, calling to report you for saying 'team, play the game' instead of AFK protesting because they don't think they can win against the meta. other curious thing why the enemy play meta and my team can even known anything to counter?

[@spacecowboy7193]

Man, I have so many thoughts and comments when I watch these. It’s super enjoyable but at the same time I wanna yell at my phone.

[@ObeseWizard]

Counterpoint to Jaws point at about 1:34:00 - instead of a pick/ban system, just implement an optional pre-chosen blind ban system. Each person in the match has the ability to pre-choose 2 heroes that they don't want to see. Everyone has heroes that they hate - I'm sure most people could think of 2 heroes at any point in time over the various metas we've had. All the votes get tallied up when the game lobby is formed and the top 3 (or whatever number) most voted for heroes get banned from that match. This wouldn't increase the time between games at all, it gives each player agency (or the ability to just not choose any bans if they don't care), and it avoids one tricks getting targeted.

[@Mierusama]

Dota 2 blind picks.

[@johnsonspark171]

NO. One of the best parts of the hero ban system is getting one-tricks out of ranks they don't deserve to be in. Looking at you no-skill Mercy one-tricks out there!

[@bigfudge2031]

People's opinions will change depending on the map and If it is already pre-chosen then some problem characters may then get through with their counter also being banned. Pharah and Widow can be really oppressive on some specific maps but have low overall pick rates, so people may prefer to use the ban on something like Sigma, all of a sudden Widowmaker just dominates on Circuit Royal, junkertown and Havana because no other tank can stop her damage.

[@Siks7Ate9]

​@@johnsonspark171if someone 1tricks mercy and climbs, they have to be doing something right. Unless they get boosted by a friend who is smurfing on dps. Otherwise they belong in that rank. I cant play mercy for shit. The things people do on the hero always impressed me.

[@Siks7Ate9]

​​@@bigfudge2031id like to introduce wrecking ball to you. There have been games where sigma didn't do anything against those windows because of a rein or mei in my face. I went ball and 1,5 minutes later the guy never went back on widow because he got so sick and tired of getting perma dived and killed.