The "Metroidvania" RANT

[@Rikard2k]

5 minute rant - I'll take it! Btw: I just rewatched your Rayman videos the other day, it was great as always. You're the only reviewer I keep re-watching reviews from even though you're off the video games now, I don't want to join the ranks of the people harping on about your (now) old videos rather than your new creations but I just wanted to say thanks for those they're a real treasure and thanks for not taking them down.

[@KrackDaddy]

For real

[@Mrjakokos]

Rayman reviews are some of the best content on the entire internet

[@MegaDeox]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[@bohnzo473]

I dunno why I watched Rayman 6 times every three episode

[@bigdicknigga3746]

@Nicholas Rumleskie the cream of the crop the tip of the top, so beautiful they make my eyeballs pop

[@aaronamour6101]

I missed your videos so much!

[@tobbby4359]

Hehey I was just thinking of you the other day "man I liked that guys videos, I hope he's doing ok."

[@Mfenton10]

Did you just upload? MY LIFE IS COMPLETE! COMPLETE! COMPLETE!

[@drifter402]

Should have subscribed to gibbontake

[@Trixiethegoldenwitch]

Keeping the good fight going

[@Trixiethegoldenwitch]

Real Metroid-likes: Axiom Verge, Xeodrifter, Knytt Stories, K.O.L.M., Endeavor

[@JayTohab]

I’ll keep these in mind!

[@AlmightyPolarBear]

@@Trixiethegoldenwitch I completed Xeodrifter. It is rather fun, even if short in time-to-finish.

[@UrsaMinor-69]

pretty much the big takeaway here is go read lord of ghosts, people

[@1PROFITPROPHET1]

I’m playing hollow knight, and you get “energy tanks” and “missiles” with collectibles but its like zelda where you get fractions. This gets into spicy territory when you find out all other upgrades are done like dark souls. Then your friend calls hollow knight a “metroid soulslike” and you reach over and stab him in the face with a fork.

[@felixvids7238]

I'm a 100 percent with you on this, as a person who loves metroid but thinks castlevanias are just ok Only thing I would have added would be adressing the balance between exploration and fighting. In castlevanias, rooms are usually just rectangles that are no problem to traverse as long as you have the right movement upgrades and enemies are the only thing hindering your progress. In Metroid rooms are often intricate and you have to use your brain to maneuver them but enemies rarely pose a threat

[@inigo137]

I only care about getting the metroidvania rant from endless jess that he deleted

[@Ignore14]

That was such a great video, I seriously don't get why he deleted it

[@TheCr0wing]

PLEASE continue to upload! Love your reviews I watch the rayman one at least once a month. Have you ever considered one about Tomba/Tombi or the medevil series? If youve ever played them? What other nostalgic games and concepts are worth diving into for you??? Please don't stop uploading !!!! You're THAT DUDE !

[@littleNorwegians]

Happy to hear your voice again. :) And happier to hear you speak on something you clearly care about. Heh, I feel your pain.

[@FafliXx]

Most of the popular "metroidvania style games" of the last years don't have major RPG elements though. Hollow Knight, Ori, Blasphemous, Axiom Verge, Rabi-Ribi (well kinda I guess?), Shantae games if you count them, Momodora. I also dislike the Castlevania style leveling and equip systems, but most games in the genre don't have them.

[@mathewhosier9739]

This is probably why I only like Vania likes, as primarily an RPG gamer what drew me to Castlevania and bloodstained was the RPG gameplay, but your statement isn't entirely true, dragon marked for death, lost epic, salt and sanctuary, salt and sacrifice, bloodstained, watcher chronicles all have rpg elements and you don't need experience and leveling to be an RPG, what makes an RPG is progression, and experience and leveling is just one form of progression

[@MegaDeox]

I'm just glad you're uploading something. Keep at it bro, you're good at it.

[@Stevem]

I'll put this one out there SOTN was not intended to be a Metroid Game It's inspirations were Castlevania 2 and Zelda 2 It's core fundamentals designs Discovery - This is shared with both, Exploring the big map to find all it's secrets, but Castlevania is encouraging of taking your time and going slower with platforming not a focus, while it can be speedrun, the game wont reward you for playing faster like metriod. RPG Elements- SOTN wants you to fight over fleeing and the more you do the higher chances you have to find new weapons and items to power through the game with. This reinforces the exploration element getting the player to go further into the castle to fight bolder enemies. Spectacle- SOTN games play towards big spectacles and set pieces defining pieces of the castle in the same way as prior castlevania games, Bosses especially play a role here. They are the most complex part of the challenge. Where metriod depending on the game, can feel a bit ehh with it's boss encounters they just happen and I've found a fair few annoying, over the moment to moment gameplay. I'm not in love with the genre name of metriod-vania, but the idea here confuses me a little a Genre is a loose box we put things in. If I like Prog, I wouldn't expect to like every prog album, perhaps i like Symphonic Prog in that case maybe the argument here is sub-genre tags(metriod-like), but still ultimately execution matter more than convention. I think Metriod-vania means games that play with convention of either a metriod or a vania style map based action platformer with rpg elements, until they find a catchier name i guess we are stuck with it.

[@Stevem]

In short I guess The "my people thing" part is like the NO True Scottsman thing, If you want more metriod esc game you'd just need to google it , watch reviews and all that, off the top of my head I know there's axiom verge, hollow knight and AM2R But here's the thing what element of metriod are you drawn too, the atmosphere, the setting, the platforming, the design of the levels?

[@TheT3rr0rMask]

I dont mind the term cus it gives you a quick idea of what the game is ginna be like; basically a quick description. BUUUUUT I completely agree with what you said, it's just objectively true. I love the shit outta Vania but haven't touched a Metroid in years.

[@niemand7811]

"it gives you a quick idea of what the game is ginna be like" No,not when you never played a Metroid or Castlevania game. Many people don't even know the classic Castlevania games on the NES, totally believing it all started with Symphony of the Night, which only adds up to the confusion.

[@LiquidShamanMan]

This feels like 2016 all over again. With Digi's, Nate's and Jess' Metroidvania rants.

[@LimeyLassen]

when someone says "Metroidvania" my brain goes "ah, like those flash games on Newgrounds"

[@Alianger]

The MV term evolved (since around the mid-00s) to encapsulate both types. You'll have to use igavania or metroid-like if you want to be more specific (and maybe souls-like or roguevania for some of the newer ones), which isn't that much of a problem really. I always used Platform Adventure (platformer+action adventure) myself.

[@RevandNekoOfficial]

yes hippos here missed your videos!!!😍

[@TheGeekosDen]

wow you are back, we need more game reviews in the style of your Rayman videos!!!!!!

[@rasengdori13]

“What kind of game is this?” “It’s a Metroidvania kind of game.” “I don’t know what that means.” “Oh sorry, let me explain-“ “NO! *_CHANGE IT!”_* “You could just look it up-“ “CHANGE IT *_NOW!”_* “It’s been used to describe a sub-genre of gaming for DECADES! We can’t just change it!” “(eyes start rolling back and makes pterodactyl noises)”

[@felixvids7238]

*Ridley noises

[@juman9523]

*Goku Twerking*

[@frawding9438]

you're not dead yay!

[@Sandalwoodrk]

you do realise that he's been making content this entire time...

[@frawding9438]

@@Sandalwoodrk well ive seen a few livestreams but i didnt think he would post again on this channel.

[@Sandalwoodrk]

@@frawding9438 you oughta check out his webcomics too. they're rly good

[@scaulbywithans6748]

Welcome back, man. You rock

[@niemand7811]

Well, good rant. Well done and appreciated.

[@Pyrocitor]

Damn son I thought I was yelling into the wind about this a few months ago, and thought I was alone. I'll stand up as one of "your people" Randomly decide to look up your channel since not seeing you for like a year or two now, and you've perfectly captured what I was talking about.

[@TheCosmere64]

Like I agree, especially with the preference between metroid and castlevania. However I don't think of either game when the term is used, I think of large, sprawling maps in a 2d game, with verticality and shit. The term just seems to be easy to use, but the problem comes when people over-analyse the terms. I understand your frustration tho, specially with the hazy definition of it when looking into it.

[@BrownieEXE]

I will use Metroidlike from now on

[@LimakPan]

Taking your own interpretation of the term, Metroid is the original, Castlevania is the iteration, so MetroidVania can be read as "an iteration of Metroid". This actually makes the term better and accurate. That aside, I like the term because it directs people to the gaming's and this genre's past. It has history behind it, and we don't to a lot to preserve it, so I'd like to keep that. Also you don't have to grind in any castlevania games. There's usually a trick to every boss. Grinding is more like a crutch to help out if you get stuck on something.

[@2CPhoenix]

I didn’t dare unsubscribe. I always knew... one day... ;_;

[@yonib59]

Maybe do videos here and there :) loved your analysis

[@WackySwackyAdventure]

Koji Igarashi wasn't even trying to emulate Metroid with SOTN. He was trying to emulate Zelda, but in 2D. He's said this himself. I couldn't care less about Metroid games (they are ok I guess) but I've been a Castlevania super fan since I was a child so honestly I'm getting a little tired of people saying Castlevania copied Metroid when really the similarities between the franchises are very superficial at best. A Castlevania plays nothing like a Metroid and Vica Versa. I think the term Metroidvania should be seperated into 2 camps: Iga-like and Metroid-like. As the two franchises are different enough to warrent their own seperate genres.

[@BugsyFoga]

It's been 7 months!!!

[@Ignore14]

Metroid has aliens and guns and shooting, the true geniuses use guns and blasters

[@LupinxJigenTTV]

What would be a better term?

[@batsling1234]

you should try out Super Skelemania then

[@sladikk]

metroidvania just sounds cooler than metroid-like tbh

[@elocfreidon]

That's just it. If your demographic is just that small, you have the burden to be more specific.

[@mathewhosier9739]

As primarily a RPG gamer, what drew me to metroidvanias were the RPG elements, without them they are just 2D platformers with no progression, which is probably why I don't like the Metroid series and why I prefer the newer Castlevania games over the older ones, to settle this I think we should drop the whole metroidvania label and just call them either 2D or 2.5D platformers, with the ones with RPG mechanics being either 2D platformer Rpgs or 2.5D platformer Rpgs

[@niemand7811]

The Metroid series in its entirety is a series of action adventures where you make progress by finding new items and weapons that allow you step by step to progress deeper into the depth of the space pirates hideouts. No progress my ass. But of course they are not RPG. Nobody with a brain ever said that. As we ditch the useless term metroidvania we also ditch this bullshit "2.5 D". Because gameplay wise a game is either 2D OR 3D. Just know your genres and we can avoid such debates at all.

[@mystZER0]

I'll say metrovaina because it's what i been taught. One of my favorite games are more metro like than Castlevania but it does take place in a castle so. . . I forget where i was going with this

[@AlmightyPolarBear]

It's like the term JRPG, that term doesn't necessarily fit all RPG's from Japan like Demon's Souls/Dark Souls. Where what is known as a JRPG is something like Final Fantasy, Y's, or Dragon Quest.

[@TheBilje]

I've been repeating this for years now and never found anybody who cared or thought it was important.

[@nottellinganyoneanything]

a new video, could it be!?

[@VoxAcies]

I see where you're coming from. I fall into the category of people who like both Metroid and Castlevania, but I still dislike the term, because I don't think Castlevania SOTN did enough of its own thing to warrant the term. Metroid games have progression and quite a bit of lite RPG elements: beam upgrades, items, suites, health and ammo upgrades etc. I love SOTN, it's a great game, but it's very derivative and doesn't do nearly enough new things compared to SM.

[@giserson2]

I thought metroidvania refered to games are like metroid and the term came about from the fact that castlevania went metroid-like and people just started calling it metroidvania because it's like metroid and it's like castlevania because castlevania is like metroid. So my understanding is more that the rpg stuff is just an addition on top of the metroid-like stuff categorized as metroidvania, but no one ever really separates the two very clearly. Symphony of the night and the like ought to be categorized as metroidvania rpgs or something to differentiate between them and "pure" metroidvania (metroid-like), that would make things a lot clearer.

[@AndDeathForAll82]

The problem is that people put Metroid itself into the Metroidvania category.

[@Pyro-Moloch]

Yeah, as a fan of Castlevania (both pre-Symphony and post), I could never get into Metroid. I'd actually compare Symphony of the Night and its successors more to Diablo than Metroid.

[@freedomzero6430]

Ya hippo boi is back.

[@golgarisoul]

My hippo lives ❤❤

[@AndDeathForAll82]

It should NOT be used for Metroid games, only games influenced by SOTN.

[@niceguy4441]

Nice

[@Gerd0]

I never really thought of the RPG elements as being part of the definition. Who the hell actually grinds in a Castlevania game? If you're getting your ass kicked, it's usually because you're either in an area that you shouldn't be, or you need to figure out the enemy's attack patterns better. The way I've always seen it is that the more Metroid-esque games have more focus on the exploration and atmosphere while the more Castlevania-esque ones have more focus on the combat.

[@imreplyingtothiscomment2378]

Rip Castlevania

[@gilgameshlxi]

It made me sad when you mentioned how most people don't really appreciate the differences between the genres. But in conclusion, I think people should maybe use Metroid-like (similar to Metroid), Castlevania-like (similar to classic Castlevania) and Metroidvania (Symphony of the Night-like). Alas, God knows if people will care someday.

[@flanjo3799]

Good video: Metroid 1 rules , Redman has cool hands

[@baneenab]

Plz more reviews

[@Heatranoveryou]

the biggest difference between metroid and castlevania to me is that metroid is a 2d platforming shooter and i suck at those.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

Metroidvania is a term that works. People use it because it works. But I have a controversial opinion of my own! Just because a game is not 100% platformer, does not mean it's not a platformer.

[@steelviper7778]

I very much agree with you, and also dislike the fact that he totally glossed over WHY the term rouge lite exists. Rogue as a game is very fundamentally different in gameplay than something like rogue legacy or binding of Isaac. Those three games play completely differently and I think anyone who say each one would have no idea what you're talking about if you try to call them the same genre. Rogue-lite exists to take the more meta/abstract gameplay concepts from rogue and apply them to other genres, like 2D platformers or twin stick shooters. If you showed me rogue next to nethack or dungeon crawl stone soup I'd agree very quickly that the gameplay and genre is similar and worth grouping together, because they all draw heavily from rogue. In fact, even if someone modded rogue to be an open world, pregenerated adventure with save points and respawns, I'd still be more willing to call it roguelike than something like gungeon, because it preserves the moment to moment gameplay better even in absence of elements like randomization and permadeath.

[@RyumaXtheXKing]

I agree. I prefer metroid-likes too. And Cave Story isn't even a metroid-like. And really, Metroid is just a side scrolling Zelda.

[@elloofficer]

I still don't understand this "genre" honestly. Is 'Metroidvania' just Metroid but with stats? Where's the distinction between 'Metroid-games' and 'Adventure-games'. I don't see the difference between Metroid 1 and Zelda 1 when they do the exact same thing for the most part. Gaining abilities which are used as keys to open doors is bog standard game design since the 90s, can it even be exclusive to Metroid anymore, even if it did it first (presumably)?

[@gulfgiggleanimations4472]

Personally I don’t like the term metroidvania because literally all the hallmarks of a metroidvania aside from 2D sidescrolling came from Zelda. Getting new, ditching the level-based structure of other games for a more open world that lets you explore, the only thing that zelda doesn’t have that a metroidvania has is 2D platforming, and even that’s arguable considering the prime series is often considered Metroidvanias just like the 2D games.

[@Alianger]

What the MV community on reddit clings to as the main difference here (besides sidescrolling and platforming) is that MVs aren't divided into an overworld and dungeons or hub and spokes style world structure, and that you backtrack into previous sub areas as part of the progression while this only happens in the overworld in zelda.

[@eZU4nQsWN9pAGsU38aHj]

Holy shit!!! Yes!!!!

[@CidAghast]

Man I love Castilvania but id rather eat my own head than play Metroid. I forget who said it but i like the term "mapformer" as a cross of map and platformer

[@warman13x]

That's pretty interesting, actually. Mind if I ask what you don't like about Metroid? Assuming you aren't just talking about the original, because that game did not hold up well at all.

[@CidAghast]

@@warman13x its the mood of the game. Samus may as well be a robot on a planet of non human or humanoids that dont talk, so i have a hard time getting invested or feel like im making progress outside of a bigger map and more guns Draculas castle usually dosnt have mant guys that talk but we get a bit of talking. And draculas goons and castle is usually filled to the brim with personality. Functionally i get they are the same but anime guys fighting mummies, wolfmen,vampires, demons, evil paintings and ghost etc in a cartoon spooky haunted house with bats and skeletons resonates to me more than someone who is basically in a robot suit stoicly shooting... bugs and stuff mostly on in organic looking biomes

[@warman13x]

@@CidAghast Honestly, that completely makes sense. I feel like a lot of what you say is the appeal of Metroid for many people too. Being trapped alone on a deserted planet full of beings that want you dead. All you have going for you is your skill and the tools that you gradually get along the way that eventually turn you into a superhuman. If that doesn't click for you, I can totally get why Metroid wouldn't be your thing.

[@RebornAudio]

God, I’ve missed that voice.

[@FrostDriveX]

this video showed me an Okami ad hahahahaha

[@niemand7811]

Metroid and Castlevania are both franchise titles. Throwing them around does not give anyone a single clue what the games within those franchise are all about in terms of gameplay and such. Even more weird once you know that both franchise titles are merched words themselves. Metroid comes from Metropolis + Android. Castlevania comes from Castle and Transylvania. So when ever someone says metroidvania they say "Metropolis Android Castle Transylvania". So people must learn why one franchise was called Metroid (in Japan and the West) and the other franchise was called Castlevania (only in the West) when in Japan it is called Akumajou Dracura which roughly translates into "Dracula's Demon Castle". Otherwise metroidvania would roughly translate into "metropolitan android in Dracula's demon castle". Does that ever make sense? Of course not. But also in plain sight of the question: "what genre does it relate to?", this convoluted term mashup doesn't give us one single clue. Another problem is that many games related to the verbal vomit metroidvania do not even agree on what type of games they are. We know that classic Metroid was a side scrolling adventure, mixing up adventure elements with classic platforming elements. Next thing we know is that the classic Castlevania games are platformers (or action games). So Castlevania 2 did a little sidestep, taking on a similar approach like Metroid and also giving us light hints of RPG games as we can now level up Simon which mostly raises his life meter. But nobody called it metroidvania, simply because Castlevania games still were platformers at that time and Metroid itself was also kinda platformer mixed with adventure elements. So metroidvania at that time would have meant an action-platformer-platformer. Some years later Castlevania as a franchise took a turn by becoming more of a series of adventure games since Symphony of the Night. And the 2D titles as well as with Curse of Darkness (the only 3D title that did that) wouldincludelight hearted RPG elements as raising the character stats while gaining experience. So given those RPG hints, the titles themselves would remain 2D sidescrolling adventure titles similar to the Metroid series. Like Castlevania II. And here comes the question. Why, all of a sudden, would anyone call these side scrolling adventure games "metroidvania"? Where did that come from? Who (what a phony) did that? By all means as Castlevania went full on side scrolling adventure style, the franchise never fully ditched the platforming it was known for. And even more games had been released between the release of CV2 and SotN. And nobody called those games "metroidvanias". Nobody ever did. So why? And why do many people now believe the term metroidvania counts as a genre descriptor when clearly it does not? What is all of this nonsense? Another example I could make up is the mix of Sonic the Hedgehof with God of War gameplay elements as seen in Sonic Unleashed. Has anyone considered that game "Sonic of War" and even deem "Sonic of War" its own genre? No to both! Then what's so different with Metroid and Castlevania in that regard? What did Imiss out on? Or the second Jak and Daxter game that had some GTA elements to it. Did anyone call that game "Jak Theft Auto", further deeming that its own "genre"? Of course NOT!

[@mrwhippy101]

Fuck I think KZbin never notified me about Any of your uploads

[@xxsusmasterxx5491]

AHHHH COME BAKK PWEASE

[@pwnmastr]

Guess I'm that one other guy. Proud to be part of the team.

[@franjaff6919]

Genre terms are weird and subgenre terms are even weirder. I'm not really a fan of "Metroidvania" as a subgenre name either, but it conveys a point. When someone says "Metroidvania", or talks about a game having "Metroidvania elements" you have a pretty good idea of what they mean.

[@god9364]

You should like....stop being retired and make a Rayman 2 video....because i fucking miss you man

[@niemand7811]

Oh and Metroid came first? I though both games Metroid and Castlevania got released in 1986? But the fuck does anyone here know? Right?

[@daques]

Love love love

[@danielvutran]

So easy - Call them metroid like ( 100% metroid ) / castlevania like ( 100% vania ) / metroidvania ( mix ) This is also a problem with language - as 'normies' come onto a genre, it becomes shallow - This is why words such as ' awesome / literally / epic / hilarious ' lost all original intent

[@Alianger]

Except castlevania-like can mean either mv or classicvania (linear action platformer style)

[@danielvutran]

@@Alianger Looks like we got to add Classicvania to the list! xD

[@Gotmilk0112]

I don't see what's wrong with using it, it accurately describes the genre and rolls off the tongue better than "metroidlike" or "castlevanialike".

[@Matt_Kole]

except metroid does have castlevania elements...

[@Obnubilated]

if you don't like leveling up - just don't kill enemies 😎 castlevania pacifist run !

[@audiovideo-w6o]

AYYYYYY

[@CranberryDave]

Based Hippo

[@TheAvizanski]

[@TectonicImprov]

Watch this start another cross channel metroidvania rant event

[@jarvisjackson4833]

It's just an open world 2d game. All open world games have backtracking.

[@cruelcumber5317]

I don't think that it's fair to say the term is bad because you don't like some of the games in a genre because it does something a bit different. That will always happen, no matter what genre you talk about, and acting like metroidvania is somehow special in that regard seems unnecessary. Then from there, how much is gained from separating the two? Is there much of a reason to have two different genres because of one mechanic that does change the game, but the core appeal is still more or less the same? At that point, it's just easier to clarify is something has leveling or not. I'm going to point to the Endless Jess rant that you sadly can't watch anymore because I'm pretty certain that it's more or less making this point.

[@toa12th4]

Bifuricate the metroidvania genre into metroid-likes and vania-likes

[@bear7278]

I hate you. Why would yo do this? I love this term!

[@swahiliranger1022]

Metroidvania? No no, that was coined by folks way after Symphony of the night, which is an action RPG that apes elements, level design and powerups from something like Super Metroid. Their is only one Metroid, and then you have the zillion games modeled after it, but by no means would I ever consider Metroid, Super Metroid or in fact any game in the Metroid series to be an "action rpg." They are mechanically perfect games, with their origins obscured by time and a Sega Master System game called "Zillion" (ironically) that was very similar and came out before the original Metroid on the NES. Modern Castlevania titles are now ill-fated and recycled knockoffs of Symphony of the Night that are chalk full of dumb anime bullshit and RPG elements such as leveling, health items, and weapons. Metroid is pure, Castlevania is ruined by the inclusion of action rpg elements. Metroidvania somehow now applies to all games similar to both of those series, which is fucking wrong. Ori, Hollow knight, and Axiom verge for instance have more in common with Metroid than they do Castlevania, so I guess a proper term would RPGvania's when referring to the sickening amount of Castlevania titles on the DS and beyond. The last true Castlevania game would've been Rondo of Blood, Castlevania Bloodlines and maybe the N64 titles (to some degree). If I say try to look up a game that's "like" Super Metroid, I'll get suggestions for games that have action RPG game play, as opposed to classic platforming and exploration. These aren't what I want to play and I'd say something like "Dark Souls" has more in common with "Symphony of The Night," then it does the Metroid series. The irony from all of this is that no one unless they're over the age of 35 or 40 grew up on Roguelikes, and most people wouldn't even know they're playing them these days as the genre has totally mutated into something else entirely. Darkest Dungeons is for some goddawful reason, referred to as a "rogue-like RPG" when in reality its a "Turn-based strategy RPG game." Knights of the old Republic is another great example, as it shares more in common with Dungeons & Dragons than most modern role-playing games. KOTOR would be correctly called a "Classical Role-playing game," because its a bit closer to Fallout 1 than Fallout 3 obviously. Once you bring in the hack'n'slash genre you might as well jump out of a window, or "looter-shooter" or "sandbox" or "open-world." It does start to get messy tracing back to where all these concepts even came from these days.

[@Alianger]

Zillion actually came after Metroid (1987 vs 1986), and was partially based on Impossible Mission from 1984. Some other really early ones in this genre are Below the Root, Brain Breaker, Journey to the Centre of the Earth, Hero of the Golden Talisman, Space Hunter and Milon's Secret Castle.

[@smugmode]

Why anyone likes Jim Sterling is forever beyond me.

[@geniusbruh542]

First No likes No dislikes

[@heavysystemsinc.]

Self referential genre names are opaque to outsiders and thus why these genres that just refer to other games need to go away. For instance, I make this example to show why it's silly: Movies...that feature hand to hand combat action involving martial arts primarily, with generally simple plots to move from one action scene to another, with minor characterization because the fighting is the main draw to the film. We can call these Bruce Chan flicks because Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan had the biggest impact on this kind of film. See? Sounds stupid. It's self referential because then to describe it more precisely, one must direct someone to Bruce Lee movies and Jackie Chan movies, neither of which have the same ideals in their action. It's just...it's silly to use Metroidvania or Rogue-like, etc. Why don't we have Terminator-like as a film genre? So I really wish this stupid culture would grow up. From the industry leaders making games using stupid terms like AAAA games, which is basically the whole 'blockbuster' buzzword crap from film (don't worry, they get my ire as well for similar things), to the players who want the medium to be seen as art yet when the most basic of critique used for all other media is applied, everyone gasps and gets angry. I frankly enjoy games themselves and literally every other piece of the culture can go away and I'd not care. It's just...grown kids instead of adults who realize that yes, a lot of the industry is self fellatio, if it's to be properly elevated, then adults do have to tell the kids to go off to the kiddie table because this is an adult discussion. The problem is the adults don't want to act like adults....and thus videogames continue to be about as 'powerful' of a cultural signifier as saturday morning cartoons.

[@takaohasiguchi433]

Eh, it's totally safe to ignore the rpg elements in SotN series. Grinding for unique souls is different, since it's about getting a cool new thing to play with. Skip SotN and play nds's Dawn of Sorrow, patched to Definitive Edition, cuz that's the real shit. Unrelated but wtv, my problem with metroidvania is that it fails to describe what I like about metroidvania castlevania. Specifically metroid games, but even other metroidvania castlevania--blergh---igavania aside from SotN series kinda fails. For metroids it's prolly cuz the movement, as was prolly the other igavania starring non-vampire mc. THOSE SMOOTH ALOOFNESS UURRRGFFH---ehm. I also really like the idea of exploring one giant interconnected castle instead of segmented pieces (as was the other nds igavanias), which doesn't make sense since said castle is kinda just segmented pieces presented all in one place with convenient teleports, but eh. Idk what I'm saying but if you have metroidvania that fits those criteria plz tell me. Oh also my pc is a piece of shit so I can't play bloodstained or emulate ps2 or above.

[@cookiesandcream1114]

If you're saying your in the minority then why do you think it should change? You're basically validating the term if anything

[@mrwhippy101]

>Getting annoyed at words

[@hgbguy]

>words not being useful as is their purpose. every right to be annoyed at words that don't work.

[@dillonrafferty4717]

Seems weird to grind in a castlevania game, I can understand how in ways having "metroid likes" and "vania games" would be better. I understand it but still funny to me seeing you so frustrated by rpg elements.