The Myth of Full-Frame! with Joe Edelman

[@tmstone835]

So, when OM Systems dropped Joe from their ambassador team, he dumped all of his Olympus gear and went to a Sony high FF resolution camera. I don't necessarily disagree with his choice but it really seems to minimize his previous promotion of m43.

[@shaunmaddox]

Joe was a good photographer, but I’m sure he wanted to bite the apple with Eve eventually 🍎 😅

[@Marc-NZ]

This video has 2 years and so far this was the best video I've watched about photography as a beginner...it put my foot on the ground and avoid me to spent unnecessary money thank you...

[@TimothyGordon]

Yikes. I adore Joe, I’ve gone to a conference just to see him give a talk and do a shoot with him. Joe, you’re an AMAZING photographer but this conversation adds nothing constructive to the discourse, I watched it from beginning to end and just noticed you talk a bunch of trash, try to settle scores that don’t need be settled. Your work speaks for itself, period. M43 is OBVIOUSLY a viable, alive, and thriving platform for photography. Show us a meaningful way forward, break down for us how the Em1 ii has had a positive impact on your work. Tell us what you love about creating great images with the gear you’re grinding. You can do better than this. Still love you Joe.

[@attemptedpolymath9660]

I'm just here to say. I shot crop frame for years. I have an A0 image on my living room wall shot with a Nikon D90 (12mpix) so I know whats possible with a crop sensor. I recently moved over to full frame. Its not a myth. There are benefits. As to whether those benefits are worth the cost and weight, each photographer must decide that on their own.

[@lxhk3595]

Just bought into fullframe for use with my vintage lenses, coming from Fuji APS -C. I was just not aware about the advantages of FF in difficult situations like high contrast or low light. The immense dynamic range and low light capabilities just make a difference in post. In standard situations i agree, any modern camera is more than capable. I also keep selected Fuji gear, because there are just many situations where you don't want to carry a kilo+ of stuff with you.

[@burkholdst.rudderberg3574]

What is called "full frame" is basically digital 35mm. Back in the day ( when I was spending way too much time in the darkroom ) 35mm was considered a SMALL format! The Mamiya RB 6X7 was my camera of choice as I could not afford a Hasselblad! I think the term full frame was actually coined by the camera companies ( Canon, Nikon, Permaflex, etc. ) to make the digital 35mm format seem much bigger than reality.

[@anthonyrock5039]

Yeah, I remember this. It is very interesting to hear people speak of "full frame" these days. In the past I remember the film and lens being the determination of your image quality along with 4x5 (medium format) then the larger formats that STARTED at 8x10 cameras heheh 35mm and smaller were what we graduated FROM but it doesn't matter. I had sooo much fun in the dark room and printing. That is actually where the fun outside of the images capture was.

[@paristo]

35mm is always a Small Format. It was the puny tiny compared to Medium Format and Large Format. Where does the "Full Frame" come from? It is not digital 35mm sensor. It did bring it back, that is a fact. But, the term "Full Frame" was coined by a Olympus. Yes, you read it correctly. It was Olympus that created "Half-Frame" system by inventing the PEN camera. Olympus noticed that there is a big market for tiny cameras. And most common by far, photography printing size is 10x15, so 3:2 ratio. As that was 36x24mm film frame. The 135 film cartridges were most available and cheapest there was across world. Next one was 120 medium format rolls in special dealers. But you got 135 rolls everywhere, from kiosks to grocery stores. Kodak had 110 format as well, for tiny pocket cameras. Easy loading, plastic cartridges. Medium Format use same 120/220 roll for all different formats. Doesn't matter is it 6x4,5, 6x6, 6x9 or 6x11 etc. Common Mamya 67 camera was the thing. Olympus thoughts was to do same for 135 cartridges. As you are not limited to 36x24mm frame, only to 24mm width of the film. So what Olympus did was create PEN camera that use same 135 film cartridges, but exposes 18x24mm vertical frames. HALF of the 36x24mm frame. These are called Half-Frame cameras, and it was compared to traditional cameras that were called as "Full-Frame". This way Olympus invented the devil, that would destroy its camera division 50 years later, not once but twice (4/3 system, and then m4/3 system). When Kodak needed to digitalize their film technology for families, as mother's were most common buyers of 135 film, they created a APS format. It is easy plastic cartridge, can be rewinded in body to swap cartridge midway of shooting and resume etc. The APS was expensive and died as digital cameras got in. But APS was transformed to digital sensors as it was possible produce so big sensors at the time. APS system allowed camera to let user choose a image size for exposure. H as High C as Classic P as Panorama Canon produced their first true DSLR as APS-H sensor. Nikon did their own with APS-C sensor. Bodies were compatible with their at the time mounts, and people were shocked that their lenses were not as wide for some reason as on SLR. So major education problem was that "your 50mm is like a 75mm really, and your 100mm is like 150mm". Many were annoyed as their 24mm and 28mm lenses were not like 35mm and 40mm lenses, and they didn't have anymore wide angle lenses as they wanted for family, events and landscape. But wildlife and nature photographers and portrait photographers didn't care so much as they adjusted and now they got more reach. So when Canon was first one to produce a 36x24 mm digital sensor, they totally used opportunity to call it "Full Frame", because as you can guess, APS-C that had become most common sensor size, was about same as Olympus created 24x18mm HALF frame. Canon sold how you can now use your old lenses and their FULL image circle... You get FULL sharpness and FULL experience for your money. The APS-C is not called as "Half Frame" as should, as you can even today by the same mount bodies and lenses, R, Z or E mounts, and buy a APS-C sensor image circle lens or "Full Frame" image circle lens. And so on people have buyed to Canon marketing, that Olympus created without realizing that their amazing PEN innovation is their doom... Funny, as 4/3" sensor is identical with 110 format. Olympus chose that with Kodak for smallest sensor you can use to create a high quality digital images that are level of 120mm Medium Format rolls. And allow you to create prints that are in 8x10" unseparated from large format and even at 24x18" par with Medium Format. AND what is a required Debth Of Field for portraits and such, that was found to be f/5.6-11 on 35mm cameras. Olympus and Kodak created the 4/3" CCD sensor, based to real world print quality requirements that what most photographers require without Large Format cameras. This with knowledge that 5 Mpix is capable for that, and in future the sensor technology supports 10-12Mpix and more, that will even further improve the quality possibilities for cropping. This real world sampling and knowledge from Olympus and Kodak, that both very well knew what are most used camera settings, demands and quality requirements, allowed them to create that perfect digital system that is smallest possible, lightest possible, and most creative system, as you will have camera with you more likely. This all without sacrificing image quality OR narrow depth of field.. This is as well why Olympus created the f/1.8 lenses, as for most cases f/2.8 was shallow enough and f/4-5.6 prefredded for portraits. So faster shutter speed = less motion blur. Deep enough DOF = Less out of focus subjects and more details on face and body. Tiny size = With you. Olympus just didn't count to two things: 1) Smartphones 2) Fad to water thin DOF where only eye lashes are in focus. Even when you try to show people that people prefer 35mm system photos that are taken at f/5.6-11 range, they reject their own opinion on that table while watching the photos. You can't win the marketing of "Full Frame" and everything that it stands for...

[@davidmilton2956]

At last - somebody speaking sense. In the 1970's I was a young photojournalist for a London Newspaper....the older guys used medium format cameras (e.g. Mamya, Rollei) and thought the younger guys who used 35mm film cameras as 'in adequate' because their sensor size/film size was too small! Over the years I have owned many cameras including Leica, Hasselblad, Nikon, Canon etc. Today I pick my camera based on quality of glass, size, weight and image quality. At the moment I have an APSC camera and honestly you can't tell the difference in 99% of the time...I borrowed a full frame camera recently because I was shooting a concert where the lighting non-existent...but unless you live in a cave it was too big and heavy for my daily use.

[@AcidicDelusion]

I assume you're shooting Fuji?

[@davidmilton2956]

When you are out shooting and someone comes up and asks you a question...how do you tell the difference between an amateur or a professional? The amateur always asks "what camera brand are you using". Yes, you are correct I am using Fuji (X Pro 2 and X-T 2), but I have used Nikon, Canon, Sony, and Leica digital (most of my film cameras are Leica) and no magazine editor or creative director has ever turned away my work because of the gear I use. Too many camera manufacturer Marking Departments push the 'full frame is better than APSC and it is better than micro four thirds", next they will be pushing medium formal is better than full frame. In the old film days people were saying that 35mm was too small and you needed 6x6 or 6x9. You are the photographer not the camera, you take the photo and camera just captures your intention. Focus on your abilities, you will not become a better photographer with 'better' gear.

[@blacksheep6888]

My old mate used to say the most important part of a camera is the nut behind it. I use Nikon because they are good and I am used to the menu's, I have used cannon but found it to be a great camera but the ergonomics and menu's were, and only in my opinion tricky to use, but I guess it's what you are used to. Personally I like film photography it's more of a challenge because one can't review the pictures taken so one must learn how to use the camera on both auto and manual. Just my opinion though, I think the main thing is just having fun.

[@mavfan1]

Description reads "aside from the obvious physics". Yeah, there's really no myth, is there?

[@RJPhotographics]

The myth is that many photographers have been told they need 7000px wide images to be taken seriously, and pay for the equipment to get there, but rarely publish anything near that size.

[@yukonchris]

Cause physics is an interesting thing, and so are myths. In human terms, two grains of sand look pretty much the same, but science will probably tell you that's not true. Look at them under a microscope, and you're bound to like one more than the other...

[@Dexter101x]

Its about photography in general, not about sensor size

[@steves1015]

Christopher Wheeler great analogy.

[@Glen.Danielsen]

Hold on there, mav: maybe there's more to the picture than physics. Brother of myopic pic, watch your blotch, retain your stain, and give these ideas due chance to advance. Cheers to you,

[@edgillis4686]

“Full Frame” is a term created by gear-a-holics - sounds a lot better than saying “legacy 35mm film size” which is what it is. As someone who shot 35mm back in the 1980s and 90s, we didn’t think 35mm was the “best” format... it was just more convenient and good enough compared to medium and larger format film. A 35mm size “full frame” sensor was selected by the early DSLR makers (Kodak) largely for backward compatibility with existing lens for the 35mm format. As a technology professional, I always wondered what size sensor would have been chosen had designers been able to design the 1st high end enthusiast digital cameras with a “clean slate” - no need for backward compatibility. Doubtful it would be 35mm sized sensor - nothing magical about that size.

[@davidweston9115]

When 4x5" was standard 35mm was called "miniature photography", since it was only about 1/20th the size of negative. far from "full frame" Even worse, common Medium Format sensor is not 6x9cm, but 4.4 x 3.3cm. (less than 2x the size of 35mm, whilst MF film was 4.5x the size of 35mm). For real Pro work we ought to have 4x5 inch sensors with 400mpx. That would approach the resolution we had in 60 years ago, using Kodak Technical Pan film.

[@paullanoue5228]

I worked in a professional lab in the 1970s. The customers shot with mostly Mamiya RB 67s and Hasselblads. It didn’t take long to separate the pretenders from the contenders. It wasn’t the gear that separated them. It’s was clearly the knowledge of their craft.

[@thomasanderson5929]

Olympus should be dominating the market. Their cameras are every bit as retro and cool looking as Fuji while also being WAY more convenient and smaller than Fuji cameras. All they need is vintage film simulation colours in JPGs just like Fuji and they've got a winning recipe. Why the hell isn't Olympus doing anything about it? This is such an easy opportunity for them to capitalize on. Fuji's hipster X100VI is huge.... with a fixed lens, and for some reason that camera got 1 million pre-orders?? LOL.

[@glennsak]

They're too busy making giant telephoto lenses for their outdoor market. I also agree that OM could really clean up in the smaller, hipster style camera market, too.

[@derrickdennis7529]

In the end, use whatever the heck you want to use. Just Shoot!

[@cavebeastdemon3631]

Not buying it. Yah , if you are a beginner. If you are a beginner that is true but nobody says that anymore. They just say "just shoot"...bull shit! If you are a real pro you need a pro camera. If your an amateur (witch is all this is really about) who the fuck cares, just use your cell phone! Anything in-between is just about getting people to spend money on nothing!!

[@iTip28]

this is the ONLY statement on the subject that means anything. I'm with you, Mr. Dennis

[@cavebeastdemon3631]

@Randall Huleva Everybody thinks they are a fucking photographer! Guess what? They’re NOT! Good Satan...! Where do "amateur professionals" come from? (Amateurs that think they are professionals). They undercut/outsell people like me who are actually trained and provide quality work. 💩 They have convinced people that their "candid" / "photojournalistic" photography is better than real photography. It is NOT! It is snapshots taken with an expensive camera. I could take the same shots they do using $3000 camera with my cell phone. They suck but they get work that I could have gotten. That is why I tell everybody who can't take a decent shot to sell their camera. Are there good amateurs? Yes but not many! So who really cares? Next time think before you post a stupid comment!

[@cavebeastdemon3631]

@Randall Huleva It sounds as if you are assuming a lot. I don't need your rudimentary photography or business advice! I actually studied photography in a real college for two years. I have had work published. I have won awards. I won't tell you where or when because that will probably result in an unsolicited biased all negative critique of my work, no matter how good it is. You just don't get my point. As I said everybody thinks they are a photographer! They have convinced people who don't know better that bad photography is better than good photography. Get it!? They get work as photographers. Get it? That work could have gone to someone who actually knows what they are doing. Get it??!! ...and there are a lot of them. Get it?! That is it!

[@Delphisteve]

i've been shooting a lot more film and seem happy for it. I use a tripod a lot and I very seldom see anyone using them on youtube reviews of cameras. I haven't had much luck in low light hand holding.

[@AllThingsFilm1]

I shot a feature film with a GH5. I've since moved to the BMPCC4K. And I get amazing footage out of it. So, no, micro 4/3 will never be dead. In my time as a film maker, and after hundreds of hours of researching my choices in film gear purchases, I've discovered that there are a lot of brand specific fan boys. When I see people putting one brand over another, there is always a self-serving need behind it. Whether it's about getting sponsorships or subscribers, it's a thing. You say you get better bokeh with full frame sensors? So what? Get the "tool" you like and feel comfortable with. Leave the brand slamming to the fan boys.

[@shaunmaddox]

I was always been a fan of having a deep depth of field. Now I do a majority of my work with micro four third cameras.

[@bradhiron7170]

I love the term "geartographer"! I have a few photographer friends that bug me for being so out of date with my 7D Mark II and all my version one f2.8L glass that I've used for the last 15 years. Your shots would be so much better with the 70-200 f2.8 USM III! Look at the specs of your lens! They suck! Needless to say, I've never upgraded to fully frame or mirrorless. Simply because what I currently have does a great job. When was the last time you looked at a photo and said, "WOW! what a great full frame picture!" "Look at that 4/3's bokeh". Innovation is great. But not I'm not changing just because there's something new. Trying mirrorless interests me, full frame interests me, but if I really had to choose between a trip and a new camera body, the trip wins hands down. Just take more photos! Great video :)

[@kiwipics]

This is 4yrs after this was posted, but I still find Joes views on photography, gear, brands and "influencers". There are two well known (a couple) KZbinrs that annoy their brand jumping and brand / sensor sabotage. Finally .. Analogue photography is now bringing more young people into photography. One of my much younger work colleagues is now shooting film and developing his own film, now I'm happy that photography isn't dead.

[@cosmogang]

Unrelated, but I just wanted to give you props for not revealing your sub count. It's about the quality of the content, not just flexing numbers.

[@JJPDESIGNS]

Am I misunderstanding or did you both say that the camera is going to make the decisions and you're happy with that? So you would have anyone with a camera shoot your wedding? Taking pictures is one thing but taking pictures people want is another. I can run around pointing my camera at things and use pre-determined profile settings to get 'computer preferred' bokeh or depth of field for portrait or landscape but knowing how to frame/compose/light a shot is a whole different ballgame. People don't buy my photos because they are perfectly computer calculated - they buy them because they like the framing, lighting, and composition decisions I made at the time that I took the photo. And deciding that a shot would look better with X bokeh compared to Y bokeh. There use to be one market of people just shooting snapshots and a completely separate market of pros - so maybe Nikon/Canon/Etal should admit they tried to convert a 'consumer' marketto pro equipment and now they are paying the price as the market corrects for that. Let daily snapshot folks have the new point-n-clicks (low end cameras and/or camera phones) and be happy with that market being its own market. Get back to focusing the high-end gear on the core market of serious hobbyists and pros. These market 'losses' they are seeing are just market correction as the two markets correctly split again as they technology needs and cost justifications for each market are very different.

[@FlockofAngels]

Awesome video, lots of great info! Full frame had me at, "low light".

[@InvictusMedia]

It's hard to take anyone seriously when they have an Olympus tattoo across their forearm.

[@TWIP]

You have to admire the commitment though!

[@stuarthirsch]

I have both OLY and NIKON but use them for different things. The OLY system is used for travel, "street", and casual photography. The NIKON for studio and product photography. For Video I use a new Panasonic 4K camera where quality is paramount, Go Pro for action, a 3D Toshiba for unique 3D videos, and a small old but reliable 10x optical zoom Samsung which fits in my pocket just for "street" videos.

[@zayacz123]

My hobbies aren’t cheap. Luckily my wife’s hobbies are expensive too. Did you know they make $12,000 sewing machines. She likes cameras too.

[@keithgoreham1463]

I’ll see your wife’s sowing machine and raise you a horse. 😛

[@charlibravo371]

At least both are hobbies that can get you paid. Keep at it, hobbies are passion, and passion brings success.

[@zayacz123]

I’ve heard horses are expensive to keep.

[@Only_Fools_and_Audits]

@@keithgoreham1463 Sowing machine? That would be industrial farming machinery.

[@stuarthirsch]

At least model railroading and train collecting aren't one of your hobbies. That requires not only money but lots of space, unless you can work in N or Z scale.

[@jaywyatt2007]

Did they talk about full frame myths at all? Or am I trippin?

[@artlover4120]

20 min is and still nothing.

[@kamizerox]

It is a clickbait title. This video is barely anything about Full Frame but rather a video about "Do I really need that (more expensive) camera?"

[@josephtan4663]

Are there actually myths about full frame?

[@zx7-rr486]

@@josephtan4663 No, not really. Generally speaking, the larger the sensor (or film) area, the better the quality of the image. Whether a smaller sensor (like APS-C or less) is good enough for you, or whether you care enough to want a bigger sensor , is down to you. You can take great pictures with almost anything ... but there's nothing wrong with exploring all the gear options. I own a Nikon FF digital, a bunch of film cameras of different types, and want a medium format film camera (soon!). They all do something DIFFERENT. That's part of the joy of photography...

[@paulbaker9879]

@@zx7-rr486 The myth is that sensor size does not necessarily make the quality of an image better. There are many factors in that, mostly revolving around the user of the camera.

[@arielrglaze]

Great show, great conversation, but the video title left me unsatisfied. I guess I was hoping to hear more about why “full frame is better” is a myth. Talking points: 1. Right tool for the right job. When is full frame a need vs a want? 2. Can Crop do everything FF does given the right lenses? Or is sensor size a big factor? 3. Is sharpness really THAT important? 4. APS-c lenses vs Full frame lenses, is there such a thing, or is sharp sharp. regardless of what sensor size you put on it. 5. Camera gear vs Vision. 6. Do I really need bigger pixels? Etc. Still I enjoyed the show

[@arielrglaze]

@Michael Jin Thanks for your input.

[@bsuthe]

Great video. The older I get, the more I believe... there are no bad cameras.

[@abstractbybrian]

My Holga 120N might disagree 😀

[@bsuthe]

@@abstractbybrian There are "exceptions to every rule" I suppose. I have a miniature Leica M3 (I forget the manufacturer, etc) that is nominally a 5 MP camera, but it takes absolutely rubbish photos!

[@fthprodphoto-video5357]

I gave up on upgrading cameras a while ago : the gx85 shoots wonderful 4k stabilized video and you can adapt any lens you want. The Olympus 1.2 lenses are stellar for pro photo work and Sigma foveon cameras are amazing for more artsy work. I even shoot with older CCD based Nikons for family pictures, nothing can beat the skin tones of those cameras

[@lighthousephoto7143]

I love the GX85!

[@MichaelReini]

The problem with smartphone photography for me (18) is that you really don't feel anything when taking a picture. Snap, you have a half decent exposure, nice. Depth of field? Is faked, bokeh? Also faked, taking photos of the moon (looking at you huawei), you get a picture of the moon from the internet slapped atop your image by the software. There are manual controls on smartphones, yes, but sliding a control on a screen will never give you the feeling of turning a physical dial. All in all, for me, smartphone photography is more the 'capturing the occasional snapshot' kinda thing, whereas I use a real camera when I am going somewhere where I know that I want to invest more time into taking pictures. Like when I am on trips, or hiking or just out with a friend drinking coffee and walking through town.

[@james26bmouth]

You have summed this up so well. Yes you can get get very good images from a smartphone if you take your time. However a camera does give you a different feeling

[@pdevonport7266]

I think they were talking about dumbing down of the human race and not the advancement.

[@Zapruderfilm1963]

I couldn’t agree with you more Michael. I’ve been saying for awhile now, the smartphone camera is the modern day equivalent of the instamatic camera for the masses from the the 60’s through the 90’s. Could you have gotten creative to an extent with cameras for the mass population back then? Sure, just like you can with cellphone cameras today. As smartphone cameras begin to age and people begin to see them as the go anywhere, snapshot camera that they are, serious cameras for serious creators will thrive as they always have.

[@qotsajr]

Feel the same way. Well said.

What a fantastic insightful interview thank you so much

[@wantagehoward]

Thank you both. That was a most interesting chat. Your frankness and openness is most refreshing.

[@paulreader1777]

Indeed a chat, rather than an interview.

[@hegemanc]

after watching the other guy's "M43s is dead" video; I lost all respect for him, after finding Joe Edelman, I went out and bought a Lumix G85 and then a GX85..... and then sold my full frame Nikons.... I'm hooked. M43 is just getting started.

[@MrBazReviews]

I used to watch him quite a bit, early days. It does get a bit tiresome - seems the shift has gone from doing tutorials and reviews (ie useful content) to click bait type drama that gets people worked up/annoyed..ie get views = ad revenue! Or tech talk stuff that gets people excited about xyz new model. I know I do my own channel, more views more income!

[@noorur]

The GX85 used is too cheap to pass as a serious second camera....

[@39zack]

Mr Baz Reviews him as in Mr.N?

[@MrBazReviews]

@@39zack Yeah that's right. And I would add most of the other big "guns" also seem to have lost appeal for me. There are some good channels out there - if you dig around a bit. I'm also using a dead system A mount, and you can add Pentax users to the list as well as Micro 4/3. And those hipsters shooting MF 35mm film bodies, they are also using "dead" systems and mounts ;-D. The level of click bait on YT is pretty high!

[@hegemanc]

noorur - you are right, I’m getting a G9 soon for my more serious photography pursuits. G85 was just what got me started, I purchased only as a personal travel camera- but the results are exceptional/ paired with Olympus lenses.

[@lindagardiner9795]

Frederick -- very much enjoy your site and your interviews; most happy to see this chat with Joe! Joe always brings the photo love to wherever he goes -- this was no exception. Great convo by you both! Thanks!

[@randolphcroft4212]

Not disagreeing with anyone, but my issue was interior, no flash, architectural shots for large print. I had fully invested in Oly m4/3 for years and wasn't happy with the prints. Tried the Sony a7R3 and changed everything over. Yes, heavy as f*. Not cheap. Love the results. I don't do weddings, portraits, people and online is just an adjunct to what I want. So, take that with a grain of salt, a slice of lime, and some Don Julio.

[@EposVox]

Good video, but a point was raised about ergonomics and actual use not being addressed and virtually every camera review I watch focuses on those and UX.

[@dance2jam]

Appreciate the channel, interviews, but it took nearly 25 minutes to hear anything about the click bait (demystifying sensor size). IMO, I would get more out of the interview if you didn't agree with Joe all the time, but push him with follow-up questions to the comments he makes (which I love). Personally, I love hearing his thoughtful comments. I completely agree with many of his comments about putting techniques learned to use. I find that I have to do the same thing from (are you ready for this) "READING" instructional manuals about the camera system I use (Metering, AF modes, etc). I actually could point you to several videos about comments on ERGOS of camera bodies. I agree, help is scattered throughout channels, and for the most part in not an organized fashion. I have learned some very valuable things from KZbin (even if I proved the comments wrong for me by using what was said extensively). Thank you for your channel and thank you Joe Edelman for the conversation. Completely agree with the AI portion of the discussion as well. Taken one step further: You'll think about what you want and your camera will take the photo without you touching it :-) Luckily, we will still need to learn the inverse square law and the use of light!

[@HotarusLens]

At 19:31 you said "... cameras and phones get smarter, they're removing the necessity to understand the stuff." This is so true. I work at a college, and current college students are horrible with computers because they have ZERO understanding of the underlying design and functioning. They are so used to only tapping icons on their phones that they don't even understand folder structure to know where their files are. I can see this deficiency in under-the-hood understanding manifesting in all areas where technology is involved.

[@robhansen5830]

I stopped with about ten minutes left but, do they ever actually talk about sensors?

[@iaincphotography6051]

So now 4 years have passed, how abot the two of you do a revisit to the this topic. Good listen 4 years old or not.

[@villagranvicent]

The myth of full-frame was discussed like 40 seconds in a 40-minute video, but I really enjoy it. New subscriber here :)

[@davidjohnfrantz]

Which 40 seconds?

[@alanvandever9683]

I like Joe Edelman. I have a few more years of experience but he knows what he's talking about and gives it to his audience straight up. I was surprised to hear he can shoot for billboards with a micro 4/3. I do a lot of that and wouldn't use anything less than my Nikon full-frame so I take my hat off to him.

[@kevindahlen]

My 7Dm2 and 5Dm4 just feel at home in my hands. They cover my different photo needs/requirements. I can be out on a dirt bike race track all day using them... I look forward to it. When I test hold other cameras they have layout quirks that bug me. It is totally subjective to me, others will have other camera's that feel better in their hands, but I refuse to spend big $ to jump brands and end up with a camera I don't enjoy the process of taking pictures.

[@JaredRibic]

The 7D Mk2 is an awesome camera.

[@charlesjames9783]

I had those two cameras for a long time. One primarily for Bird Photographer and one for Events. Got good results. Sold the 7D II and bought the R5 and longer lenses. Best of both worlds. I highly recommend the R5. I swore I would never sell my 7D II but the R5 is more versatile and Amazing!

[@frankwoodbery2473]

Hey, if it works for you - use it! That's great! Panasonic figured out that M 4:3 is going to remain a niche market and split up their R&D resources to develop a brand new FF platform. More of their resources in FF obviously means less resources in M 4:3.

[@dgorenc66]

Seriously Joe is one of the only TOG'Graphers that keeps it real ...........I am a fan and being on TWIP which is also a great show this is the best of all PHOTOGRAPHY tube channels all in one......THANK YOU GENTS ....

[@gryphongryph]

Joe tells a lot of truth, but we also have to remember that he is a Olympus Ambassador, the way the cost has come down on full frame and smaller form factor of Sony and APSC Fuji I think the Micro4thirds are a bit in trouble now, also their top models are quite expensive, just my thinking !

[@jamespeirce2582]

gryphongryph He moved to M43 before he became a brand ambassador and he’s got the history and quality of work to support his position. And I can’t say cost has come down particularity on full frame and APS-C. Anyone buying lenses for a Sony system ought to notice that quickly enough (even if they do aggressively price their bodies).

[@kolossimike]

@@jamespeirce2582 To which you also have to add, the 'smaller form factor' of full frame mirrorless applies only to the bodies. 2.8 zooms and fast glass are as big as they ever were, if not bigger. (I currently shoot full frame, by the way, but I'm starting to doubt my own sanity. After looking at the actual work of professionals using m43, like Ray Dickman or Scott Bourne - as opposed to swallowing all the marketing Kool-aid - I'm now asking myself some hard questions about what I really need. Ouch.)

[@thedavidbrother2]

Apart from the "near-clickbait" and unfulfilled title, this video was good and interesting. Keep it up, guys!

[@AdamAllen]

SO many key points in this convo. Hope these companies are listening!

[@erjennin]

Adam Allen but they’re not because they want to sell cameras through FOMO.

[@Yuri-vk9wn]

Love this presentation. I just had a gear revelation recently, took a G9, EM1.2, EM10.3 and EM5.2 on vacation (4 photographers in the fam) ended up using the EM5.2 with the 12-40 Pro 75% of the time. Both videos and photos came out awesome from this combo. And for all the m43 detractors, the appeal of the system has been and always will be the size of the lenses.

[@hanslamal5632]

Wonderful conversation, I listened it while driving my car through crazy Yogyakarta Indonesia... No accident so excellent content 😄😉

[@MrJed_s]

Wouldn't better content increase the chance of an accident?

[@bencushwa8902]

It's not about which sensor size is better, it's about which sensor size best matches the lenses you're using and what you're photographing. Say you have a 200mm lens. If you want to use that to shoot a portrait, you probably want to use a larger sensor so you can get closer and minimize your depth of field. But if you're shooting a sports event and you can't get close enough to your subject to fill your frame, a smaller sensor is probably the better choice. I'm a Nikon shooter and I do a mix of portraits, sports, events, and landscapes. I use both full frame and APS-C bodies (D750 and D7200, fantastic pair!) and swap them out as necessary. I shot a regatta out of Annapolis, MD, USA this last weekend and I used a 70-200 f/2.8 on my D750 and a 300mm f/4 on my D7200. I got twice as many "keepers" on the crop sensor setup, and I got them without having to crop out crazy amounts of image space. Remember: a camera is just a box to collect light. Pay attention to how you're collecting the light and everything else just works out.

[@billmoyer3254]

"a camera is just a box to collect light"...no, it is not that simple

[@bencushwa8902]

@@billmoyer3254 So tell me then, what else does the camera do? The lens focuses light from a scene and projects an image of that scene onto the film or sensor of the camera. All the camera does is collect that image. Sure, if you're not shooting full manual the camera will decide some of the settings used to capture that image, and some of those settings can impact your final image, but the three primary things it can control are aperture, shutter speed, and gain/ISO. One is just a setting on the lens, and the other two determine how the camera collects the light the lens is casting on it. Hence, a camera is just a box for collecting light. It's a photographer's palette, a lens is their brush.

[@gregsullivan7408]

Good points. Another example is macro - the smaller sensor camera will often have the advantage, because a FF (say) will be stopped way down, to maximise DoF, which is a waste of size & weight. ISO may well have to be set higher than that of the smaller system, which increases it's noise to a level closer or even matching the smaller sensor. (HUGE h/t to Tony Northrup for explaining this crucial aspect of "equivalency")

[@srodigital]

It's always great to listen to Joe Edelman, whether someone is interviewing him or he's imparting 90 minutes of wisdom on his tog chat channel, or watching his KZbin videos. Thank you both for an interesting show.

[@darrinlalla9008]

No absolutes... there are some good teachers and reviewers here, have faith. I did find you both after all!

[@BlaxkNobility]

I brought APSC camera recently couldn’t be much more happy.

[@Thunder1976NL]

Great conversation, but the title does not cover the contents. Ff a myth is maybe 1 minute of the conversation and it doesn't even come to a nice conclusion with a bunch of arguments. Bit disappointed about that...

[@mediamannaman]

@Randall Huleva Well said. It really depends on your needs. I shoot real estate from a tripod at about f7.1 and set on infinite focus. A M4/3 20MP camera is actually more camera than I need. But I recognize that there are plenty photographers who work where things like lighting, distance from subject, and motion are not usually within their control and big sensors can really help them get better shots.

[@mh-sf7oc]

I believe it does. Their conversation is about how the hype of ff correlates to people needing to have the latest and greatest tech. I don't believe it was meant to be a technical discussion of how the full frame sensor compares to others. With certain youtube influencers touting "m43 is dead" and ff is the only way to go if you want your photos to look "professional". The myth of full frame is you need it to be a good photographer.

[@Thunder1976NL]

Randall Huleva I also have a D500 and it works like a dream. Sure, the D850 has the same megapixels in dx crop mode and will produce ultra sharp landscape pictures with the higher pixelcount in normal FX mode. But only if you have the best of the best lenses on it, because lesser lenses will not do justice to it. I am fortunate enough to have the 70-200 FL and it is so sharp on the D500. I would need a superb 12-24 and 24-70 when upgrading to the D850, which makes the transition hugely expensive. And since I don't make money with my photography, I am not that stupid. 😉

[@johngi8366]

Interesting discussion and I learned a lot. However, I missed any clear discussion about the myth of ful-frame. Would someone summarize that here? Thanks

[@mavfan1]

They didn't because there is no myth. Click bait title.

[@stephengatley8144]

Joe Edelman is a great photographer & worthy of a much larger following!

[@mavfan1]

Too much of his stuff reminds me of 80's GlamourShots. The style of makeup and the same lighting.

[@stephengatley8144]

@@mavfan1 When you develop your style it is what your clients are paying for!. An adaptive style is not something many photographers can pull off & it causes inconsistency!. He might not be on trend but it's good to shoot what makes you happy!.

[@mauistevebear]

Great Conversation! I also shot Nikon for years. 4 cameras and a dozen lenses1 (that's enough $$ for a down payment on a house!) I recently sold my Nikon stuff (including my D810) and went with Fuji. The X-T3 and 3 lenses (one more to come) and you know what? It's the best quality ever, and so much fun to shoot! It actually has improved my photography. Thank you, EVF! I will never go back to FF!

[@MegaNardman]

(As a Sony user) I completely agree with the recommendation to actually try the equipment you're considering first. Rentals are the best education for what a camera system will do for you. Believe it or not, the Sony ergos were one of the positives for me when I was considering systems. The menus on the other hand....Anyway, use what gets the results that make you happy :)

[@Windsurfingaddict]

So enjoyed this interview, I take photos on iPhone and upgraded from 12 pm to 15 pm, a micro 4 thirds is still a larger sensor than all the smart phones and people complain they would not shoot APS-C and have to have full frame for general use and APS-C sensors are how much larger than any smartphones in later 2023 lol, you hit the nail on the head, all sensors have to have good software to make it perform well but the person behind any camera is equally as important to frame it correctly, smartphones can not be beat for super fast point and shoot connivence and instantly send out for world viewing if that what you want, I’m old enough to have to use film and send it off and hope and prey they you get a few nice ones back after a few weeks and occasionally came back with stickers on saying light has entered and hence reason all your photos are un viewable lol. Digital is so convenient, click keep or delete at no cost except in time if you want to edit, cameras in my view are for people that want to learn more about how to use the manual settings and learn how it does it, I still remember watching the images caught using a tin with a tiny hole in the front and left there for hours back when someone worked it out and we have come along way since then lol.

[@fjphoto23]

It's 2019 and I still use my Nikon D600 (ff) and D3400 (c) and only investing in new lenses.

[@KamenKunchev]

D600 is an amazing camera. Did a magazine photoshoot with it 2 months ago and I am pleased with the results.

[@_HMCB_]

Agreed. I bought a D600 a few months ago and a used 85mm prime and 28mm manual prime. Pics are gorgeous. I’m a newbie coming from a Nikon D3200 and feel like the D600 will serve me well for years to come.

[@idahofallsmagazine3691]

I'm a Canon guy but our publishing company has at least two D600s and they are perfect for our needs.

[@FeedScrn]

Pic Orientated talk - which is what I focus on: FF is good for certain kinds of photography. And APSC is good for the crop factor... say, to focus on an object or object group. So what's the answer? Get one of each... preferably with a nice set of compatible lenses.

[@MartinLutherMcCoy]

This should be required information for all beginners

[@MichaelGerrard]

I agree about visiting a shop and picking up a camera. This is the best way to know whether the ergonomics work for you. I disagree with the comment that on KZbin "no one" is talking about ergonomics. Many do, Camera Labs and DP Review for example. Such reviews help a lot in deciding what to buy. They do such a great job.

[@SpeccyMan]

One of my favourite KZbin photography channels involves a guy talking about technique using just an entry level Nikon DSLR with the kit lens. The focus is all on technique and not on gear, which is how it should be, especially for those of us who just want to learn how to take great pictures. That is all we want to do, we're not aiming to be professional photographers but we are aiming to be proficient photographers.

[@jeffchastain2977]

Those of the photography family who have had the opportunity to shoot 4x5 inch sheet film in field, and view cameras know that Full Frame is not a "myth" the larger the light capture the more detail and the less grain (in digital world, noise). The size of the sensor may not be a great big issue if most of your photography is electronically displayed, but if you print, and if you sell prints, and in particular LARGE prints (30x40, 40x60,etc,) the size of the sensor can be critical.

[@nethbt]

One things certain...you can get away on a bad lighting with a full frame BETTER than APSC.....On a Good lighting it's pretty insignificant

[@robfj3414]

Thanks, a few months late, for a very enlightening 40 minutes. Well worth the time! I particularly appreciated the comments about the often overlooked aspect of ergonomics. If it doesn't feel right in your hands, how much will you use it? On the subject of people who complain about complicated camera menus... have you used Adobe Photoshop?

[@TWIP]

Cameras aren't THAT complex... some just take more time in the manuals to _"understand them"_ than others. But after that hump, it's all *just* f-stops, shutter speeds, and ISOs.

[@Just-a-Guy1]

I remember a friend who is left handed. He loved his Pentax K1000 because the body was so large he was never awkward using it. I used an Olympus OM-1 for thirty years and loved the fact I never had to think about where my hands were and what they were doing when I held the camera. I am comfortable with my D810 which I've had for about one year, but not as comfortable with the my old OM-1.

[@sealine8717]

14:50 Amazing prediction of the comeback of compact cameras, where now both old 2000s digicams and compact point and shoot film cameras are zooming up in price from all the hype around them.

[@LeightonDPhoto]

I love Joe... and I'm not going to count the "branding" on his forearm against him based on bias. But one thing is certain is that we have people focused on the equipment over the function or the tool. He's right about South Florida tho, When I was in Miami, the Guilds down there are GREAT. But I have a question... are we approaching, or have we approached a point that we should separate "photography" from "imagery?"

[@michaeldidomenico7]

I have Canon gear, 80D & M50. They work, but I also took classes on composition etc. We can get a great photo from any camera, if we know what to do.

[@Gibson1976uk]

I use a Nikon D700 and D3!! love the photo's they produce!! I actually sold a D500 to buy a very nice lens :) I have found that I don't need a lot of modern tech! don't need video, touchscreen, blue tooth, wifi!!! and I don't want to deal with massive file sizes! and I don't print stuff that covers castles :) I really do believe modern cameras are hyped up!! I'm not saying they are bad!! but they make people feel they need them!! they will produce the best pictures!! its down to the user and the glass!!! seriously!! people need to talk about glass more than bodies :) why do I use a D3? because its a tank that lasts all day on battery power!! takes stunning photos!! and great if your in the middle of nowhere :) away from cities and tech!! just photography!!! no social media!! and it will survive an alien invasion :)!! but saying all this! you do get assholes who give you attitude and talk to you like your a terrorist!! but thats not stopping me from using DLSR cameras

[@CVCC]

Love my D700, totally agree with you. just had a shot blown up to 8 ft. looks awesome and tack sharp. 12 megapixels, plus you don't choke your computer and hard drives with these huge files. I have newer and higher meg cameras, but I just love the output and feel of that D700. What a bargain now too! You can buy a full frame Nikon or Canon FF like the 5d for a few hundred buck and they are hard to kill.

[@hypercube33]

@@CVCC Yep! You can probably go back to my first digital, a sony P71 @ 3.2mp and print out decent prints from it. Its a beast point and shoot. Slow focusing, slow wiriting to the card, and the LCD is smaller than most viewfinders but it still takes good shots. Its more of the photog being cool with their gear at this point.

[@krazyk57]

Great interview.... The best was at the 24:00 minute mark... 12 seconds of pure truth....

[@liborkrupica5686]

Great conversation, all true. In November 2017 I got my first E-M1m2 and never regret that. I enjoy every bit of the system. Also I register in Czech republic Olympus club which has fantastic customer support, gear training, photo exhibitions and monthly contests and much more .... For the end user either professional or amateur it is just fantastic. I feel like I have the company fully behind. Too bad it is not the same here in the USA.

[@Photomeike]

Love Joe and totally agree with him on EVERYTHING in this talk.

[@Glen.Danielsen]

Frederick, quickie suggestion: in showing the interview with Joe, why not show you in a smaller picture-in-picture for the entire interview? Your presence should be maintained throughout. Also wondering this interview could be condensed for brevity. Really nice video! Cheers, brother of cool channel!

[@Malcolmqp]

I’ve still got my Olympus OM1n, about 40 years old now. Hasn’t had a film in it for a long time but I take it out and fire a few frames occasionally to stop it solidifying!! What’s amazing is how small and light it is AND it’s made of metal, lenses are also tiny, 50mm f1.8 is sizes with Fuji 23mm f2. Perhaps the weight and size is because it only needs a button battery to power the meter? No big bulky battery to drive it. So my wish for the future is smaller, lighter and longer lasting batteries. It also strikes me that phone technology to make amazing images can also be put in a camera which with better light collecting lenses should always stay ahead of the phone for image quality. BUT the art of photography isn’t the ability to work the hardware - it’s the creative vision and ability to use the technology as a tool to make the vision a reality. That’s what photographers do.

[@robertbouchardt3357]

I personally switched from Nikon to Panasonic a few years ago and coped a bit of the shit from other photographers however, my clients could never tell the difference. Now I found the happy medium in Fuji and I love it. So yeah full frame is great but not that big thing everyone froths over.

[@autofocusrossswansea9362]

I have lots of images taken on Nikon d5200, d5500 and D810 - I can tell you straight, if you are wanting to enlarge, then there is NO full-frame Myth. Simply put, the D810 knocks it out of the ball park, and I am sure the D850 is slightly better. If you are NOT enlarging, then there is no reason to argue this - cropped sensors > 16Mp have been more than enough for 12 x 10 prints for years now. I am talking about 30 x 40 prints! This is where a full frame will shine, and why you need one (unless you don't need enlargements). Same goes for cropping an image - a quarter of a D810 image enlarges as well as the full frame of a cropped sensor (I know that sounds odd but it is the only way to explain it).

[@dougg6467]

I have a full frame camera, it’s a Nikon F2 film camera. I love it but the crop sensor D7500 I use every day isn’t even in the same universe functionally. What is the magic of a sensor that’s the same size as an antique SLR camera? I don’t think I’m missing much and know I’ve saved a ton not having to buy full frame lenses.

[@niftytwo]

Absolutely incredible video Gentlemen. I’ve got some heavy thinking & decisions to ponder on. Thank you both. I’ll be back. Neville J.

[@sic04250f]

I got into photography (mainly for landscape astrophotography) 2 years ago and went Sony aps-c. Now a Sony a7iii, there's no denying larger pixels are better. If I was into wildlife, m4/3 would be my go to. 2 times the reach!!

[@ktcool4660]

If I was into wildlife, m4/3 would be my go to. 2 times the reach!! ROTFL.

[@metphmet]

Worldwide , the sales of cameras with interchangeable lenses are not decreasing but increasing . Due to switch to mirrorless the sales of lenses are even booming.

[@MrTifoso31]

Great conversation guys. Between my E-M1ii and A7iii I clearly prefer shooting with the E-M1ii because of its mutch better ergonomics. That body seems to be made extra for my hands :D

[@TimberGeek]

I bought a used D7000 for $350 (it works with glass from last century and fits my meat hooks), I'd like better auto-focus for wildlife but until I get handed a boatload of cash ... Olympus was the 35mm I wanted (but couldn't afford) to switch to in my film days.

[@azjoe_6310]

Luckily, I just came across this video and I loved the entire thing. I’m kind of late to the party but I just subscribed and was looking at your subject titles and can’t wait to watch many of them. If they are like this video you should have over 100,000 views for each one because you really did an excellent job on this one. This is the first time I’ve seen any of your videos, but it won’t be the last.

[@glennsak]

This didn't age well. According to his website, he's using Sony full frame now.

[@Dexter101x]

In my genre of photography, I kept being approached by what can only be called newbies, on what settings I used. Same manufacturer of ones I use. I've never seen them again.........because they gave up. Though one of the shoots that I was on really wasn't their fault

[@rowlandwhitford3274]

Interesting video! I live in retirement community in central Florida called The Villages. We have 3 major photo clubs and I'd bet there are over 300 plus members. I was a co-founder of the IPC photo club. We limit the membership to 100 because we are a hands-on photo club. Some years ago I introduced the Olympus camera here and it is gaining members because of the smaller size. Easy to handle for the older folks. Yes, AI is making major in roads in the camera and photo editing software. BTW, I have the E-M1X Olympus camera a love it. It is easy to handle.

[@ThePhotographyHobbyist]

9:30 Who is being talked about here? Would it be Tony N. (and his wife)?

[@kellyw7777]

Theoria Apophasis almost every review, for years? Nikon, Fuji, Sony, Even about Canon (though he doesn't own so doesn't review them)?

[@39zack]

Yes

[@ThePhotographyHobbyist]

Zack Ok. Yes there are a lot of clickbait videos over there. Clickbait titles are one of my pet peeves...especially when the news has titles like that.

[@Rykrer]

Yes. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5u7hKGEgr9jhrc

[@gregsullivan7408]

Yes I believe they are referring to the Northrups. (I think they are absolutely OUTSTANDING)

[@ropersix]

I live in the heart of Silicon Valley, and see young people downtown carrying DSLR's all the time. They're not the "giant" 1DX type of camera, but at least the smaller ones don't seem to be going away based on what I've seen. As for "camera clubs," I would guess they're being replaced by social media. Even the term "camera club" sort of reminds me of the Model-T ford more than a large DSLR. They seem like a thing of the past.

[@frederickvan]

Yep, "Camera Clubs" are now just called "Meetups".

[@mikedixonphoto]

I think Olympus has some great sensor tech. What they do with that small of a sensor is really great. However, when Sony, Canon, and Nikon are putting out aps-c cameras at 30mp and full frames at 60+ mp, newcomers to the market are going to look at the 20mp of Olympus and pass them right by if Olympus doesn't step up their game.

[@jamespeirce2582]

Mike Dixon That would be an example of marketing over functionality. Very few photographers, even among professionals (however defined), have practical use for 60 MP. While some people certainly will buy on the numbers, chasing marketing over practical use, other nice features (like shooting speed, buffer size, cooling requirements) doesn’t seem like the direction in which I’d hope companies would go.

[@mikedixonphoto]

@@jamespeirce2582 I hope Olympus has some advances in their sensor technology in the near future because if they are betting their future on marketing ability it's going to be a tough sell. New customers look at features, and 1/3 the number of pixels is a big feature spec hurdle to jump. As for "no practical use" I would beg to differ because it allows for a great deal of cropping, saving both money and weight on buying a 600mm or 800mm lens and still having 20 to 30 mp of image left.

[@blacksheep6888]

I bought a Nikon Zfc because ergonomics is exactly like the old school film camera of the day, i can even set ASA and shutter speeds without turning on the camera.

[@MannyOrtiz]

Great video fellas

[@realfolkfan9421]

Really Manny ? All they did was beat around the bush

[@pippo-1073]

You can do every hobby on the cheap, but it gets expensive when it becomes your passion.

[@fotochuck]

Obsession may be a better word.

[@LeighKempPhotoArt]

Great video man, I switched to Olmpus MFT a few years back and it's great, such a huge weight saving and the image quality is great. I've got the convenience of my old 35mm SLR film cameras but with all the advantages of digital.

[@BriteFrog]

I agree with much of what was said regarding digital & possible paths regarding the various sizes and formats. I am a photographer from the "film days", and avoided going digital (except I did own a Nikon "Coolpix" temporarily in the early to mid-2000's until cell phone image quality became better). I purchased a used APSC Nikon D3400, and am really happy with it, but would love to give an Olympus OMD a spin, along with possibly a FF dslr. I know that eventually, mirrorless will replace dslrs, but I like that "film days" experience (the mirror slap, etc.), which I still shoot in all formats. I agree also with the younger generation's aim to "experience photography with more, not less human interaction, which is why film has enjoyed a slight resurgence. I mean who would have dreamed a couple of years ago that Ektachrome would be re-introduced, or that certain film cameras are fetching record prices on the used market? Many of the younger generation enjoy making art through their developing knowledge of the basics of photography, and what better way than with a no frills manual camera? Still, I recognize that I've become "spoiled" with all the technology digital can provide, thus enabling me to capture shots I'm sure I would miss using a film camera.

[@jimhenderson6162]

At the end they go on about a "cloud camera" having an app store and the ability to upload instantly. Yeah! As a photographer on a bicycle, illustrating Wikipedia articles about places, often I decide the photo situation is simple enough that my Android phone is adequate. So that's what I use, because it can upload instantly with object descriptions, using the Wikimedia Commons app. That's what I want; one pocket device that does both the work of a modest sized real camera with interchangeable and zoom lenses, and the processing/sharing work of a smartphone, without fussing with both of them and the connection between them.

[@TWIP]

Well said Jim.

[@MarkMphonoman]

My iPhone X never fails to amaze me with the fantastic shots I take with it. Such a tiny lens/processor, kind of seems surreal that it can compete with most point and shoots and even dslr’s. P.s. This was an excellent expose on the state of photography/cameras today and where we may be headed. To me, smaller cameras with larger sensors is the way to go and as the iPhones progress (and other phones), they will be your primary carry camera. Regarding manufacturers, I’ll bet Sony is the first to downsize cameras without losing quality for all parts. Also, I do love Olympus. Own Olympus, Canon and Sony.

[@TexMex421]

Doesn't most of the income of Photography KZbinrs come from camera resellers? I mean B&H is advertising on KZbin (and many others). They offer small stipends to KZbinrs when you use their links etc. So the last person to trust is someone making their money from that. Used gear, a generation or 2 old is the sweet spot. My 400mm F2.8 IS cost me $3500, I've had it for 8 years and today its worth $3000. But the Version III is $12,000, and the photos look identical. Mine is 2x the weight...

[@smaturock]

That's the best part of the new RF-mount lenses: lots of used, affordable EF-L-glas on the market... :-)

[@wcbibb]

I used Nikons during the 35mm film period. I was happy as a clam. I made the transition to digital cameras and smartphones. I use a Panasonic G9 with several lenses. All of it fits in a camera backpack that allows me to get into nature for wildlife and landscapes. I will ultimately invest in full-frame for certain landscape effects. But do I really need that camera now? Do I need medium format? Instead, I invested in computer power to edit 4k video features of the G9. I also invested in vacations to go where the scenery is.

[@wpherigo1]

Great comments. Ergonomics - Jared Polin “Fro Knows Photo” does it all the time, his most recent one on the Panasonic S1 was all about how to take great photos on the camera, but he also spent time on the ergonomics. I’ve had Olympus’s since 1974. My first was an Olympus half frame. Then I got an OM1 (all manual). Still have both.

[@fotochuck]

Fro knows neither Jack or Diddley. Why do people watch his show?

[@debrafontenot8387]

Cause he's Funny