The New RSI Arrastra & The Future of Mining (Ft. Croncy & RedMonsterSC) | Launch Sequence Podcast

The newest ship concept to Star Citizen has been revealed as the RSI Arrastra, a large new mining ship meant for deep space expedition. But what other changes could we see to mining with the introduction of this ship? Today I’m joined by Croncy & RedMonsterSC to discuss the nuances of mining, how it might change, and what this new ship could mean for the profession.
Today’s Guests:
RedMonsterSC
KZbin: / redmonstersc
Twitter: / redmonstersc
Croncy
Twitch: / croncy
KZbin: / @croncy
Twitter: / croncy1
ToC:
00:00 Introduction
05:00 What Is The RSI Arrastra?
13:25 Will Other Mining SHips Benefit From This?
18:00 How Is Mining Going To Change?
22:50 Problems With Mining Right Now
32:20 Engineering & Mining
44:30 The Immediate Future for Star Citizen
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[@az_3kgt714]

Definintly heavy into mining. Traded my reclaimed and mole for the arastra. The arastra was basically a straight upgrade for the mole and I never even flew my reclaimed so going for tge arastra made more sense. Not restricted to 1 landing zone you can spawn it from and no more crew than a mole. And from the looks of it soloable in the asteroid belt.

[@CitizenScott]

22:40 great discussion with plenty of great ideas and valid points... but feel like i gotta give my standard reminder that streamers are involved in the game socially with your orgs in a way that does not represent the overwhelmingly vast majority of sc players... most of us are solo and have no time, resources, or desire to take part in multi-day mining ops requiring huge coordinated crews... big org players/streamers should have a place in the game but are also a vocal minority and should not be the driving force behind the game design

[@jful]

CIG did come to Australia one time. They came to Pax Aus in Melbourne to reveal the FPS module and I was able to make it along! Was a great experience even though we unfortunately never got that into our hands except the redone version later in the form of star marine.

[@AaronJohnson1969]

As a industry player (mining/salvage) I love my MOLE and Reclaimer as a solo player and also team/ORG ships BUT the Arrastra is going to be bigger than what the concept gives so if people are complaining about the moving throughout the Mole/Reclaimer now you KNOW they will complain when the Arrastra comes out. The Arrastra is not going to be soloing and really for team/Org I would still pick a Orion than a Arrastra. And really be in Cargo/Mining/Salvage/Industry playloop we need to have a solid economy base in game for it all to work..not CIG guessing all the time. Hopefully CIG has at least been brainstorming te economy..like i always say making pew pew play is easy but making Industry play is hard.

[@PolBlanesCebrian]

I think Crew size numbers coming forward will indicate the number of people below which it's not advisable to use a ship, not the maximum or the recommended amount of crew. For example, when mining on an Arrastra, you could have 3 people on mining lasers, 1/2 engineers, 1/0 pilot. If you get attacked you would stop mining and move to combat positions. Yes if you have more people you can react faster, but if you have less people you will not be optimal at mining which is bad. So if you get a bit over the crew amount, that's probably beneficial but if you go below that number you won't be doing the ship's main job with suboptimal perfomance. Maybe they should consider putting multiple crew size numbers on the website, like minimum, recommended and maximum (taking into account number of workstations / seats / turrets / beds vs life support capacity, when it's done).

[@Aethid]

You can probably get by with just the 3 miners on the Arrastra. Whether or not to have a 4th player to run around doing everything else (moving the ship every so often, shifting crates, fiddling with the refinery, engineering) really depends on how all those things turn out in game.

[@PolBlanesCebrian]

@@Aethid True true. By what they're saying it seems it won't be something common at all until you've used your ship for quite a bit or you get into combat. They want to make it a consequence of your actions not the other way around, meaning most problems will come from combat, overclocking, mismanaging heat or power, cheap or competition components, etc. It feels to me like keeping your components in good health by topping them up whenever you have a moment will be enough to avoid any engineering issues.

[@halan236]

I like the versatility of the Arrastra. You can do cargo runs. Visit existing ground mining ops and process their ore for them. Bring them replacement mining vehicles (like CarVana or the Jawas on Tatooine) for sale. No credits? No problem. I'll trade for your minerals.

[@cthree87]

I think the Arrastra is the mining ship for Pyro for all the reasons you discussed. Great show. I'm really excited to see how the external cargo racks work.

[@jawshbawx1483]

I'm trying to get into mining. After doing salvage primarily since joining, I find it more complex but more rewarding when things go right. Definitely curious to see where it goes!

[@ro0140]

The only mining ship I don't own is the Mole. Somehow the Mole never did it for me you are really more at risk in a Mole with more people and more raw ore mined with no real defence. For the Single player Prospector I can give it a place For the Orion this is a massive mining ship, but it can do only one thing and that is mine asteroids nothing more nothing less it cannot land on a planet etc. The Arrastra can do it all, it can mine in space on a planet it can also be a refining base for miners to unload their raw materials or vehicles and the Arrastra can be used as a pick-up point for haulers to carry off and sell the refined materials. It also has the ability to defend itself so it has some teeth.

[@ElfInflicted]

The thing I worry about with mining is how quantanium is scattered around all types of rocks now and mixed in with other materials. When we're really trying to have a player-based fuel economy, that's going to make a lot harder to do. Otherwise, yeah the Arrastra looks cool, and with all the different roles it can fill with all its cargo capacity and weapons, it's no wonder it's so expensive. Also learning what the name means was cool, I love ancient tech stuff like that.

[@ltwinter5098]

Tunable lasers, fuck yes! Good idea Red 👊🏻

[@GeneElder.R27]

I use RedMonsters mining spreadsheets all the time, at least when i actually try to play the PU. The only thing from citcon im genuinely excited for is the Persistent Hangars and Freight Elevators.

[@Rob-lt6gb]

Curious to see whether they allow you to still operate these larger ships with the crews mentioned and that they just increase profitability when more people are added to incentivise it. I’d be surprised if they don’t allow fewer people to operate them, given 50% or more of their funding comes from the big spenders as opposed to the folks that have put $60 in here and there. Efficiencies and profit are easy ways to make multi crew wanted but not required. Obviously defence is another. Say the 100% earnings standard is with NPC crew, but if you had player crew you’d be able to bring in 600%. That way a single person can play with their large ship but multi crew with players is still desirable. Excited to see what CIG do.

[@BlakedaBull]

Great gentle thoughtful talk. I do find server performance , bugs to be the biggest hurdle to recommending the game , blank check . Second is the aggressive exponential model of marketing (this includes lying/trickery)

[@hawkzulu5671]

Spend $45 dollars, get SC and close the wallet. Buy the rest of the fleet with in game space - money.

[@Crazy-Chicken-Media]

In SC for mining you need a PhD, as for salvaging... you only need to complete Primary. the depth is crazy deep and I still have lots to learn.

[@BesteWare]

If you guys have to come to germany - I live 2 hours away from Frankfurt and have a comfy couch and bed! ;)

[@danielhartland3737]

I would absolutely love to see a large misc refining ship where you can dock 3 or 4 prospectors to it, go out to an asteroid belt, mine the rocks, dock to the refining ship and repeat. Would be awesome

[@AccidentalFriendlyFire]

I want to speak on the stability mentioned towards the end. The other night i was on a server trying to run salvage and the server dropped down to 0.2, then 0.1, and of course finally to 0.0. Nobody could do much, everyone talked about the server dying, and i suddenly notice a door is open that ignored my open command earlier. Over the next ten minutes i manage to exit my Vulture through the cargo hold into EVA, where o again can't react, and suddenly the server FPS jumps up to 16 and everything begins working again. Chat went crazy.

[@Azariel-Horfald]

I the same manner as Salvage that is on the way i'd like to see "structural" mining , where you either erode , or cut rock into smaller pieces you then put into a grinder , each method having pro and cons , if you erode from outside it's more easier but yield is worse and the rock might fracture , for the cutting then feed into an internal grinder , via tractor beam etc , it's more yield and you can do it while on the go , in travel toward the next mining field or selling / cargo managing , but you need a big ship that can do that and accommodate for it and maintenance / replacement of grinding heads , i sound complicated and in depth but that's cool and not every body as to know how to / or do it . and i think it be meaningful and get a multitude of system together

[@Azariel-Horfald]

we could still keep the laser extraction but you would loose a lot if not all volatile materials / have a bad yield and lot of innert filling , but it be fast and easy to get into

[@mattsully5332]

I get the feeling that the rails for the mining lasers are more about moving each laser into it's optimum range than about getting the asteroid into view, but I could definitely be wrong

[@stoves5877]

great discussion

[@rickskynight98]

Was my first citizen con too.. But there was so many people there I didn't recognize anyone.

[@GrizzySC]

i was going to melt my galaxy for the arrastra but im keeping the galaxy for the base building module. RIP Hull C...i would miss you more if you ever actually worked when you came out....

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

It'll take a while for any of them to work how they really should though, eh?

[@professorrhyyt3689]

Considering how the ROC handles right now, a Storm with mining lasers would be a good idea.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

That'd be nuts!

[@The_Opinion_of_Matt]

CIG has changed ship development for all future games. I haven't played Starfield, but the lego brick method they went with isn't realistic and feels like Bethesda went with their method of modularity simply so they could use procedural generation to create "different" ships. The actual different and good looking ships seem to be rare.

[@Broadside388]

I’ve not played Starfield as I never preorder but the Lego ships was the thing I was most hyped about tbh. It’s subjective I know but I’m very artistic so it’s a form of expression for me and fun just to see what I could build.

[@aaronnelson7702]

i was gonna turn my three ship mining fleet into one. I mostly solo mine, so have a prospector, but have gotten good with the mole solo and make more with it...then the refinery i'll leave in my hangar. But then I thought if when i get hit, id lose the refinery too instead of just a ship full of ore. but after reading comments here....man idk....

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

A ship with Vulture like arms, named after a primitive ore grinding method, but will only use lasers to break rocks...seems like we are missing something.

[@akamekurome4941]

So i can use this to make money, and as a warship. Epic.

[@bhee1076]

Got to be used to not letting a wipe dictate your fun because eventually those are going to go away

[@Aethid]

The Orion right now is available with a Warbond CCU for the same price as the Arrastra. It is one of today's IAE daily warbonds.

[@JizzyNinja]

Is it still bad that I prefer the Arrastra? I get having big ships and “earning down” but managing an Orion scares me.

[@Crazy-Chicken-Media]

Please but a med bay in big ships, the Reclaimer needs one, too many players getting hurt stacking the cargo boxes.

[@kerrylatham9351]

The Arrastra is a "Deep Space" miner. It is not going to replace or even compete with the Mole. They will be doing very different things. The Arrastra will be flying into Deep and Dangerous areas of space such as Vanduul territory to mine rare and valuable minerals. Thats why it needs the large weapons and refinery. Its going to encounter very hostile enemies in a space with zero reinforcements or safe havens.The lasers are stronger to handle these denser minerals. But i think they will be too powerful for standard "Safe Space" commodities which is what the Mole is good at. You wont be able to get a Mole into Deep Space. Its too far for their quantum fuel tanks. There wont be stations to refuel at. And bringing a fleet out there will incure a large response from the Vanduul. Making it too dangerous or expensive to justify. Deep Space will be a very challenging and possibly rewarding gameplay, but will require very specialized ships. Such as the Odyssey to find these rare minerals and an Arrastra to go collect them I also expect there to be rare resources on planets that the ROC will mine. Hence the need for the Arrastra to haul them

[@Rooskiy]

Definetly getting the arrastra. Already secured my ccu. But im thinking liberator with vulture, prospector and expanse would do more damage out salvaging and mining.

[@TheTrueBrainfreezing]

Next CitizenCon in Montréal?

[@dragofire5063]

Armament is 3 quad s3 gun turrets, and bespoke s1 and s2 missile launchers, there is no s5 missile launcher

[@PaulMEdwards]

RSI's Arrastra page technical overview shows 3 size 3 quad turrets, 4 missile launchers with 8 size 4 missiles & 2 missile launchers with 4 size 2 missiles.

[@dragofire5063]

@@PaulMEdwards might want to revisted that. 8x S1 Missiles per S4 Missile Rack 4 TOTAL RACKS Giving a total of 32 S1 missiles I see I as a similar design to that of the Constellation series missile spam with S1 and S2 missiles

[@nemesisfaust]

what is the arrastra. when first leaked it was a medium miner comming within the next year by RSI. however what they explained it in the first introductions at iae 2023 is not that. what they said was, its a new approach to mining using its proprietary pipelines to gather directly to external storages. or did everyone miss that! so it is NOT an onboard traditional refinery, IT REFINES AS IT HARVESTS!!! meanwhile harvesting will always be better with more split individuals for cracking and gathering, rather than just hitting a m7-9 astroid (which they also said is the arrastra's primary focus, so there is no question of what is it for, because they answered that!!! unless you wernt paying attentions) and no its not an industrial style or explorer style ship like the endevor or oddesy as those are exploration and science and research capital class ships and not an rsi military ship. also the reason for 3 mining lazers is because if it is refining as it is gathering one would think that would cause the mining lazer feeds to be slower. as this is also evidently so with the 86 2scu storage boxes and no sattlebags as an RSI military class miner. so the arrastra is a mitiary ship that is larger then a galaxy but harvests potentially 3 times slower intended for M6-9 astroids and has a sufficent weapon bias for being out for long durations of time to be capable and able of defending itself. where with poilet, miner and gunner x3, 1 scanner, 1 engineer (as they also said all large and capital class ships will require at least 1 engineer with power stability and maintenance and failures ect for other feature dynamics), and 1 cargo sgt to manage the exterior load to the internal storages to let them keep filling up the exteriors. that is a 7 man crew optimal shift. where ive already done the math for 6 hours of harvesting with 3 loads going from external to internal storages for 978scu of storages of random harvested refined good vs 6 prospectors collecting raw goods while belt hopping from hurston to be 24.7k raw goods which allows you to pick and purchase a quality of raw material refinement. where duration of 3 stations doing refinement for 3 days where you could go and do something else for the same time. 24/3 6hr shifts for 3 days is only is 978x9 = 8802 raw goods assuming you are gathering rock after rock after rock asap, w 60% quality to refinement and 60% miscellaneous material waist. where 3 days of refinement from 6 hours of harvest with 6 prospectors running 100% quality refinement with 7% material waist is 13.7k refined goods from 6 hours of work, vs 7 men in arrastra doing 54hrs of work for 8802. that is the end result. 163scu refined good per hour avg with arrastra, 2.28k scu of refined good per hour with 6 prospectors. is it worth it absolutely not! having a ship, that has separating bulkheads and able to disconnect from the main vessel much like the drakes command head for the caterpillar. in a mining sense. or multiple single resource collectors... will always out weigh the large ship with a single focal zone. that is the difference between military and industry. ie if you want a medium or large miner, wait for drake ships in 2026. or get the oirion for S10 asteroids, deep core moons + comets and gas cloud harvesting for capital harvesting play (future game loop).

[@nemesisfaust]

ie with statistics for crew size, harvesting rates, and refinement quality. 4 prospectors could pay a perseus to guard them, and all 6 in 3 hours of gathering and they would all still make 4x more than 1 crew in an arrastra. which = terrible buy for the arrastra @ iea concept update! they should trash this graybox idea and go back to the medium size military rsi mining solo ship with weapons (then there is a solo farmer slightly better than a prospector and could be ran in multiples and wouldnt require a specialized engineer on board)!!!

[@nemesisfaust]

in other words, i believe (within due regards and respect for the devs trying to think outside the box and make something new and differently fun)...the arrastra should go back to its original medium concept! a medium sized solo military harvester! or do i also need to explain how the us army core of engineers work, since the devs couldnt possibly conceive what that is like. but... they already gone and done said the galaxy is gonna have the builder module so...

[@joshua41175]

The arastra is actually a disappointment for me. I was really hoping itd have a more sub capital support roll as a command ship for various mining gangs; more tractor beams, maybe a beam or scanner that does the work of the consumable mining gadgets. but as is its just a smaller orion. We will have to see if its mining lasers are unable to mine some smaller rocks but i thing the gathering laser on them will just be able to grab bigger rocks than s1 and s2 lasers.

[@bhee1076]

Yes engineering should exist but well maintained machines dont really just burst into flames ore break down quickly otherwise people would even higher those ship builders

[@xxxsu8z3r0xxx6]

The AI act very similar when the server fps is 2 and 30. When you go and do some fps gameplay on a barren server at 30fps the AI is just as bad as 5fps servers. I was surprised when I did a bunker and the AI was still bad and the server fps was 30 and that was the current patch.

[@emu1113]

yoooooooooo

[@SpaceTomato]

yoooooooooooo

[@Rgraceful1]

Never been into mining that much but I still bought the Arrastra .

[@Uboo]

I want this ship. Just got for the price. Happy to help mine when it comes out, hit me up.

[@diabloe2]

Mining in SC right now is not worth the time base on income and time played. I will see what the future of mining in SC if will things change and maybe it can become more interesting and worth my time shooting rocks.

[@Tainted-Soul]

I am still hoping I can solo the arrastra to just get a living LOL not that bothered about making $$$$mils per hour . I am more like mining for the ore that will be needed for Base building / ship repair and I hope the refinery game play is simple as If it gets too much I melting it LOL for the mid salvage ship when and if it comes as regards to Salvage hull munching I think its got something to do with this new maelstrom as not they have a set model for the ship broken parts ?

[@WookieeRage]

I'm concerned that the Orion is no longer a usable ship without a good sized group of people. So the fees ability of NPC crews factor largely into using it.