The Penguin Does Supervillains Right

[@andreykuzmin4317]

Each time Penguin does something even slightly nice for anyone, in the very next scene we are reminded, that Oswald is a manipulating, cold-hearted monster. Penguin is nice in the same vein, as "Bad moustache Austrian guy loved dogs". Villains with superficial "good" qualities is hundred times scarier, because they contrast with what a monster they are.

[@blakan1478]

He is a strange one, while I understand why you call him a monster it is not quite the way I would describe him, more like totally selfish. He is an extremely petty and self absorbed man who's view is that the whole world is against him, and even if the world wins he would never acknowledge it nor would he compromise himself for anything. Not a single thing in this world could change how he operates. Even his mother the one person who he says he cares about and pretends is his weakness if she does not give him what he wants he will get a hooker to dress in her clothes and give him the validation she won't. Probably the most interesting scene in the series for me is after the reveal of his mother knowing what he did and Penguin learning that she was gonna have him whacked and she stabbed him then fainted. The Penguin did not lash out and kill her for being a "bad mom" and betraying him but he picked her up and ran away with her to the hospital while bleeding from the wounds she gave him. Its so interesting because it shows he truly does not care what she thinks of him or what she does, she is just a flower in a vase that he wants to keep around and as I'm writing this yeah, he is totally a monster lmao.

[@paltacomunista]

In my opinion venom gets a pass just because he was already an antihero before the movie came out

[@nota13xxsweaponsupplier7]

Disagree he should’ve started as the villain in the first film which he evolves into an anti-hero later sequels.

[@XxHUNT3RN4T0RxX]

Part of the appeal of Venom’s character arc was Eddie Brock going from hating and wanting to kill Spider-Man to becoming friends and resolving their beef. Eddie learned to take responsibility for his own actions and bad choices that cost him his livelihood, not Spidey. Something that hasn’t been done well in any media outside the comics since the ‘90s animated series.

[@muffetmissulena6540]

@@XxHUNT3RN4T0RxX I feel like the very concept of the Venom Sony movies were inherently flawed due to Spiderman not being part of the mythos. Brock’s/Venom’s dynamic with Peter/Spiderman is such a core concept of the former characters that you lose an integral part of Venom’s arc when Spidey is removed from the equation.

[@XxHUNT3RN4T0RxX]

@@muffetmissulena6540 yeah, I agree. Another reason why Insomniac’s version of Venom doesn’t work for me and didn’t for a lot of people. The idea of Eddie hating two Spider-Men is such a cool and fresh idea and I wished they did something with that character. Instead we got another “best friend turned enemy” storyline with Harry Osborn as a flat and boring version of Venom devoid of any real personality of his own. The friend turned foe trope criticism is something Insomniac really needs to take to heart and resolve in their next Spider-Man game.

[@jadenbryant9283]

and has also worked just as well as an anti-hero [Black Adam in the comics to some extent too but not as much] especially in The Donny Cates run.

[@andre_santos2181]

After finishing HBO’s The Penguin, I decided to revisit an episode from Batman: The Animated Series (1992) featuring the classic Penguin. In this storyline, he’s recently released from Arkham Asylum and yearns for acceptance in high society. During his efforts, a wealthy socialite, bored and looking for some mischief, invites him to a party-planning to mock him for amusement. Misinterpreting her interest as genuine affection, Penguin becomes infatuated, and, feeling betrayed, he eventually kidnaps her. Naturally, Batman intervenes, leading to Penguin's arrest. This episode really dives into the tragic side of Penguin's character, adding depth to his Animated Series lore, specially after HBO masterpiece.

[@adrudds]

If DC maintained this level of depths over the past 10 years they’d have had the growth that marvel did

[@yumallah]

Why the fuck was he in Arkham though? Oswald is one of the few Batman antagonists that are outright stated to be completely 100% sane.

[@abdieljove2011]

@@yumallahYeah but Gotham is corrupt as shit. Probably pleaded insanity and bribed a judge lol

[@yumallah]

@@abdieljove2011 Why would he want to go to Arkham willingly though? From what we've seen of Arkham throughout the years it definitely does *not* seem like a place one wants to be in, can't see how it's better than Blackgate. The author of the animated series probably hadn't done his Penguin research too well.

[@abdieljove2011]

@ Blackgate is probably riskier for him. Easier for rival monsters to put a hit on him. Though on a meta level, I’ve noticed the animated shows feature Arkham a lot more than Blackgate for some reason or other.

[@aaronhuff2813]

Penguin is a monster. Riddler is a monster. Sophia is a monster. All for different reasons but they do awful things. No regard for collateral damage. Frightening people. They are believable though. You could see running into them in real life. They're real. It makes these stories more thriller than action. The action is a consequence of their evil. The menace comes from who they are. Not just what they do. It's connected.

[@beenthestank2971]

They need to do this with Mister Freeze. Make him sympathetic, but show his methods are crazy and that he needs to be stopped. (If they use Mr. Freeze I guess)

[@TinyToadSage]

Riddler is a creepy incel LOL

[@larryargent503]

​@@TinyToadSage He's married and has a kid. And before that had two women (Echo and Query) on the go as part of a throuple. So...Nah.

[@Semakpa]

​@@larryargent503He is talking about the Riddler in the Movie "The Batman" which has a spinoff "The Penguin". That Riddler resembles the Internet incel archetype. Whatever you are referencing is besides the point. Look who is mentioned in the original comment. Are we talking about comics or the movie and show?

[@larryargent503]

@@Semakpa Whatever I am referring to? I'm referring to the character, The Riddler. He's a villain in this comic franchise called Batman. And he ain't no incel. He's slaying it. Women love that big old brain of his, if ya get my meaning.

[@davidcase8635]

"Everyone thinks they're the hero of their own story." - Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2.

[@NobelTheKnave]

I think that line is from Tales from the Borderlands, still good

[@davidcase8635]

@NobelTheKnave Yeah. Thanks.

[@milkiassamuel780]

The best thing about this show is how they actually commit to making Penguin a villain and as irredeemable as possible. This will make Batman's beating of him feel all the more satisfying. You see, Sony, this is how you do a good villain-focused project! This show is up there with Daredevil as arguably the *BEST COMIC BOOK SHOW!!!* 🐧☂🎩🧐🚬 BTW I haven't seen Agatha All Along yet however, I have heard it is actually good and one of the best Disney Marvel shows

[@danielkjm]

Cuz we cant make the moneybat look like the bad guy, by beating randoms and chilling in his penthouse cant we...

[@guyman8742]

I’m so glad The Sopranos exists, without it I doubt we would ever have amazing shows like this

[@magallanesagustin4952]

Not to mention that it's also a masterpiece.

[@Terminus-y9v]

I agree. Too often, films about the villain just turn them into anti-heros or misunderstood heroes. Films such as Black Adam and Venom will downplay the villain aspects and skip to the redemption arc. Sure, the show gives you reasons to empathize with Oz-but it never lets you forget he's an awful human being and you should not root for him. I can't wait for what's next in this universe.

[@jadenbryant9283]

Honestly, I would love a Venom animated TV series that actually adapts his redemption arc.

[@coltonwilliams4153]

I’m surprised that they did Black Adam so soon. I was under the impression that he had only done a heel face turn and made peace with Billy in the last ten years or so.

[@danielkjm]

They had to writr him that way, or else the guy who beats everyone and then chills in his penthouse (Batman) might look bad.

[@genoxide9490]

Yeah writing the villain like a villain was a good call from the showrunners

[@LukeSkywalker-lq2lq]

Jinx was better

[@Victor-qx3vx]

Right?! Who’d have figured?

[@Victor-qx3vx]

@@LukeSkywalker-lq2lqThis has been a good year when it comes to entertainment. Penguin ends right on time for season 2 of Arcane to begin and next month, it will be Creature Commandos’ turn to show us what they’ve got.

[@ParkerCS2]

Although Sofia isn’t as bad as Oz and is more sympathetic, she’s still also a terrible person. Her getting locked up again was poetic. The only truly good person in this show was Vic, and we all know what happened with him. 😢

[@degenratex4834]

Agatha is a villain. Just because she saved billy doesn't redeem her for all she had done. Plus she went to the road for her own purpose of getting her powers back even tho she knew it was all a fake to kill more wicthes. Plus she never wanted to face her own trauma that happened to her use it to traumatized her own son and killing witches.

[@joebond545]

Very true

[@П.и.П]

It's interesting that both Marvel and DC made series about villains at the same time

[@davidcase8635]

"The road to power is paved by hypocrisy...and casualties." - Frank Underwood from Netflix's House of Cards.

[@thegravityguy4654]

I think Agatha was fairly evil. She wasn’t trying to take over the world but she wanted power and killed a bunch of people for it

[@A_r78]

Agatha was lame

[@mateushenriquepinheiro3197]

Agatha was originally a good guy and was Franklin's babysitter in the comics, why did she turn evil again? Also Disney synergy made them change her design in the comics to be a lot younger, because heaven forbid the comic version doesn't match the cinematic universe one

[@Comicbroe405]

​​@@mateushenriquepinheiro3197 In the finale she looks similar to her og comic self.

[@LukeSkywalker-lq2lq]

@@A_r78cry about it dc fanboy

[@A_r78]

@@LukeSkywalker-lq2lq the penguin being the number show on Tv shows you how bad everything woke Marvel makes.

[@BEE-oz7yd]

Who watches Agatha all along and thinks you're supposed to root for her? She literally ends the show with rejecting every good message in favor of dragging someone else down with her.

[@joebond545]

Yeah bizzare take from him, she was a villain throughout the entire show

[@89Dienekes]

I think it’s a problem of framing. Maybe. In terms of pure level of evil obtained, Agatha is more evil than Penguin. She’s literally an eternal serial killer. However, in the stories where both characters do pretty selfish and terrible things. Agatha often gets presented as her evil being more upbeat, preventable. I mean she gets a montage set to a fun song. There is also the final kills as a way to sum up the character. Both Penguin and Agatha have morality pets they take along the way. Agatha has Teen, or whatever his real name was, and Penguin had Victor and kinda his mom The culmination of Agatha’s story is that she has to choose between keeping her evil life going or saving Teen and in the end she saves the Teen. Sure she waffles back a bit about how it really wasn’t for him. But we’re left with the image that she and Teen are still together in this new scenario. Where Penguin is given a much less dramatic scenario for how to deal with Victor. There was no crime linking them together, no need for any reason to separate themselves, Penguin’s life was not on the line. But he thought, for a moment, Victor made him weak. And Penguin was such an evil piece of shit that was enough. Were their positions reversed. Penguin would have sent Teen to Death without a moments hesitation. That isn’t evil on a wide spanning megalomaniacal level. It’s so deeply personal that it makes Penguin feel not just evil, but repulsive.

[@joebond545]

No way man. Agatha was definitely a villain throughout the whole show. I would have been the first person to say why on earth are we getting an agatha show but it blew my expectations out of the water

[@bobplayz5570]

Not him disrespecting witches road when I found that song so addictive it’s stuck in my head STILL (cannot agree more with every single tiny phrase that was said about the penguin here it’s a fucking mastapiece)

[@brandonthejobber3674]

DC just proved with eight episodes of the penguin that it has no more excuses when it comes to it’s streaming shows

[@Victor-qx3vx]

That’s the exact problem I’ve had with villain-centric stuff since the Angelina Jolie Maleficent movie from 10 years ago. I’m glad Penguin didn’t go the same route.

[@robertpulson7697]

This show does an excellent job of showing us how bad Oz is then making us sympathize with him. I was never quite sure how I felt about him because until the last episode he did terrible things for the duration of the series but they mixed in enough scenes of him being a person who you could sympathize with because it seemed like he was championing the downtrodden (albeit in a criminal fashion) and was framed as a person who was picked on and demeaned to the point you could overlook his heinous acts as justifiable retribution. The story even keeps reminding us that he is a liar and will say anything for his benefit but I was still giving him the benefit of the doubt until the very end. When he betrays and murders the only person who truly believes in him and loves him as family I finally accepted that this is a terrible, villainous person, why did I let myself be fooled. As a supervillain origin 10/10. The twist from going on thinking Selina was the antagonist in Oz’ story to realizing Oz is the true villain was brilliant.

[@alexmoore2253]

Man, if you thought Rio was the "big bad" in Agatha All Along, we did not watch the same show...

[@DOfilms_18]

His mom calls him Oswald I think they just changed his last name

[@Victor-qx3vx]

You’re correct. Oz is just short for Oswald.

[@haustyl12]

Venom has been a anti hero since the 90’s

[@Victor-qx3vx]

In the comics he met Spider-Man and was a villain before becoming an antihero. So I understand people getting frustrated either by: 1. This antihero Venom having no relationship with Spider-Man whatsoever. 2. Not having a problem with Venom per se, but with the writing of the movies.

[@davidcase8635]

"That's the guy, Adriana. My uncle, Tony Soprano. The guy I am going to Hell for." - Christopher Moltisanti from The Sopranos.

[@dylancahill6522]

Joker 1 at least he was pretty evil. He killed his mother, killed his co worker, killed the 3 people who assaulted him that you can't say it wws self defense. And killed murry. And he also enjoys doing so, so yes, Joker in Joker 1 at least is a villain and is sympathetic, but no redeemable

[@TinyToadSage]

MURRAAAAYYYYYYYY

[@MikePhillips-x6m]

Not really they were all complete assholes, especially his mother how she abused him when he was a child resulting him being how he is.

[@jadenbryant9283]

then joker 2 fucked it all up.

[@dylancahill6522]

@MikePhillips-x6m Yes, I agree. That's why I highlighted the third businessman who hurt arthur on the train. He ran away so it wasn't self defence and srthur and killing him. Also, the co-worker in the apartment, yeah, he might have been not great, but he wasn't trying to, and I don't think I had the intention of killing Arthur

[@Victor-qx3vx]

There’s something weird about hearing Joker say “I killed those people because they were awful”. Idk what… Can’t put my finger on it… kinda sounds like how an incel would talk when justifying a crime he committed.

[@michaeln3044]

I think if ur being fair you have to acknowledge he got out of an absurd amount of dead to rights spots in this series.

[@thelegoguy6012]

I’d argue that Agatha although she changes for the better, does and plans some pretty evil stuff in her show

[@benjaminglazer7217]

I mean peacekeeper is good because it’s a comedy and John cena already thought he was a hero

[@Andre_APM]

5:05 What? The show in no way paints Agatha as an anti-hero, if anything it demonstrates how much of a villain she is. It never uses her grief over losing her son as an excuse for using the Ballad to kill other witches. This is coming from someone who enjoyed both Penguin & Agatha.

[@7142320]

Question, why did need to kill all those witches? What purpose did it serve? I dont know if I missed that, it just seemed random

[@00pium_kingvampstan]

@@7142320 Cause it keeps her alive, it keeps her from thinking of Nicholas, and helps keep her emotions at bay so she can continue burying them deeper and deeper. The more she kills, the less emotion she feels. By the time Wandavision comes around, it’s js a normal activity for her. She also is js a serial killing power hungry monster.

[@UncreativeHandle48]

@@7142320 Pretty sure it’s like an addiction to her, and by absorbing the power of other witches, Agatha can extend her own life and put off having to confront her son.

[@joebond545]

Penguin was amazing, agatha was very good. Both get huge thumbs up from me

[@Thomasfoolery69]

​@@00pium_kingvampstanso she's uses killing as a means to get over the grief of her son?

[@reapersoul8506]

Disney also has this issue with their Disney Princess villains lol

[@blackgreninja1]

6:57 ahh Madame Web my favorite villain 💀😭

[@damianstarks3338]

Perfect honest breakdown of The Penguin and other anti hero shows

[@coltonwilliams4153]

As far as changing Oz’s name, I can see why they did it. And, more importantly, it’ll be easy for the writers to make it so that the next time we see him, he’s changed his name to Oswald Cobblepot when he became a true kingpin to make himself sound more official and old money, which is perfectly in line with his characterization in all of his iterations.

[@MichaelRafferty-xb7iy]

It's penguin' time.

[@webstar118]

The greatest of all time Malekith 😂

[@headshotmasters17]

Id say agatha was pretty evil, she murdered hundreds and showed next to no regret

[@Wanderer2331]

Madame Web isn’t a villain.

[@LukeSkywalker-lq2lq]

Ur correct Sony is the real villain

[@Theonyxconservative]

Oz killed Victor but dances with Eve that snitched on him to Sofia when she could be the same liability 💁🏾‍♂️ really hate that guy😂

[@ParkerCS2]

Madame Web is not a villain.

[@PLaStiiCMoNtAGE]

While I agree The Penguin was great, its my second fav show of all time. His character was so shocking and interesting because of the novelty of it, we've never seen a villain like him in a comic book film. If EVERY villain was like him, we would be bored. The beauty of comic book movies is that they can be a lot of different things. We can have impossibly kind and moral people like Steve Rogers for example, and horrible irredeemable people like Oz. We don't have to pick one style.

[@dredgen7715]

Cant wait for sofia to find Lazarus pitt and bring Vic back! S2 lets goo!!

[@queenigelkotte]

AAA was really good at showing how bad of a person Agatha is. I thought it was pretty solid.

[@MindToPage]

The people defending Agatha, yeah she killed loads of people but at the end she sacrificed herself for Billy which is meant to be redemption. At the end Penguin straight up murdered Vic, that’s the difference. That’s why penguin is a true villain. Couldn’t imagine marvel making Agatha kill billy at the end of the series?

[@theblankproductionhouse]

@@MindToPage this is exactly what I’m saying thank you

[@sylvanustv8530]

@@MindToPage 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂 I'm sorry, what redemption??? You murder everyone and just because you save one kid that you like because he reminds you of your son, doesn't make you a better person And it was more of selfish sacrifice, to forever evade death than anything

[@MindToPage]

@ I didn’t say it was a perfect redemption it’s meant to show that Agatha has went through a positive character growth though. That’s the point, marvel seems to be more afraid to tell a fall arc because they think people won’t root for them so therefor won’t be invested in their story. The Penguin didn’t show this fear and it seemed to confuse people. Based on the fact you had to use 7 laughing emojis to try and get your weak point across I would assume those nuances would be lost on you.

[@BEE-oz7yd]

Agatha: "I did not sacrifice myself for you. It was purely a strategic move to get death of our back. I will go straight back to murder and you're a serial killer too and that's actually a good thing!" Did you not watch the last episode?

[@BEE-oz7yd]

​@@MindToPageAgatha 300 years ago: Cares about one kid and treats the rest of the world like garbage. Agatha now: Cares about one kid (But this time it's not her kid, just a replacement) and treats the rest of the world like garbage. What a positive character Arc!😊 And also as I've pointed out in another comment: she didn't do it for him! And she says that! And ALSO also there are plenty of great villains who were motivated by how they care about someone or have cared about someone! So saying that every villain who isn't like the penguin or Thanos was written this way because he writers were afraid is just close-minded. You're missing a lot of great villainous goodness with that kind of mindset...

[@KevinTierney]

What's so awful about Os isn't just strangling Vic...m. it's robbing him for a few bucks after. Just a total lack of empathy and appreciation for the great betrayal he just committed. Because for Os, it's not a great betrayal. Vic is just another in a long list of people he exploited then disposed of.

[@abraham2172]

Yeah, Oz taking Vics money... I dont know why that disturbed me so much. Maybe because I knew Vic would likely be killed and was prepared.

[@davidmyklestul-jensen5802]

Bro why is venom here he is more of a anti hero then a Villain

[@Agent-57]

I will be honest, the Joker movie has nothing to do with the Joker besides his name. A Joker origin story ? The whole character premise is that it doesn't matter who he is, where he came from and what his name is. Joker is the chaos to the order that is batman. He is Gotham's worst aspects taking a human form. The Penguin is actually Oz and not a completely different character written by someone just using a popular ip to tell his story (and then ruin it to spit in the fans faces) . He is exactly how Penguin is in the comics. Sure when we are seeing him from the 6'2 greek god called Batman's perspective he is funny little twerp who has underling with guns that are using against that million dollar suit. He is deeply insecure and wants respect but he is by all means a monster. In comics he bought a girl, freed her, made love with her and when the girl found out how messed up he was and tried leaving him. He just put her in the same cage and sold her off in a auction. The best part about this show is that aside from VIc, everyone is messed up. Sophia killed several innocent people in bombings, Francis instead of you know sending her child to rehab to make him better and not have him grow to be a monster instead decided to kill him and when she got promised material gain, decided to make him a even worse monster. And then there is Penguin. He backstabbed every single person in the show. He is the epitome of selfishness. "Doing what it takes" no matter how horrible it is. He enjoys that sadism, Sophia's horror of finding her brothers corpse and burning the Maroni family gave him pleasure. Colin perfectly did that disgusting smile of sick pleasure. Not just the tight script but the cast elevated it to high heaven. It was great to see such a performance especially now with comic book genre churning out movies and shows with poor scripts and acting that can barely pass as reading off the script (ahem ahem Secret invasion). Or being more focused on lecturing the audience how multi millionaires know what is better for you that their own story (Ahem ahem Pretty much everything these days) This is my favorite comic book show. It probably won't be surpassed.

[@billbrennan2347]

The original joker literally showed he’s not a reliable narrator. They retconned this in the sequel.

[@TinyToadSage]

I wasn't a Matt Reeves shill until Penguin dropped. Now I'm a shill UNLESS he royally bombs Batman.

[@DCmanNEW52]

I hope they'll make supervillain films like this in DCU and future MCU.

[@ayushnayak6138]

Agreed. I absolutely hated the penguin especially at the end. Dude has absolutely no redeeming qualities. And the writers made sure of it.

[@ClintBandito]

I agree with most of what you're saying particularly about the lack of bite villain projects have and why Penguin is a fantastic exception. However Agatha shouldn't be a villain in the first place and they do a lot to keep her very messed up and kinda evil whilst bridging that gap a little to who she's supposed to be. They don't so soften her to make her redeemable, it's more oh mo she's done much than you already know and she's also a feeling person like anyone else. Mainly my point is Agatha is already more of villain project than it should be and if you're making an argument about wanting to see the villains of the comics actuallyget to be their villainous selves, she doesn't really apply.

[@koheletcalaforexclan6508]

Well, I wouldn’t say the Venom movies, Black Adam or Joker 2 are villain movies. Joker 2 is a bad joke only the Joker would get. Black Adam is a Edgy Anti-Hero movie. And Venom is a Anti-Hero/Buddy movie

[@desisparta]

I love how dc is doing the reverse of what marvel did. MCU developed the heroes in their solo movies before assembling them into a team in one film. DC is now doing the same but with the Villains.

[@Thomasfoolery69]

Agatha is like female homelander, people without eyes or critical thinking think they're a character to admire

[@Alpha1918]

I thought Joker 2 sucked but Joker 1 was a masterpiece

[@Victor-qx3vx]

4:22 Idk about that tbh. Aside from immediately associating the surname with the classic version of the character what other reason there is to think about wealth when you think of the words “cobble” and “pot” put together?

[@JurassicLion2049]

The trap too many stories about villains as protagonists fall into is believing the “the villains view themselves as heroes” a bit too literally. Not that you cant get interesting reimagining’s of stories like that. Maleficent, Wicked, and Frozen all come to mind (huh, and they’re all fairy tale female antagonists how bout that 🤔). But when pushed too far you get stories that miss the point entirely of the original character. Only few works and characters can be both hero and villain and still have generally great stories. Godzilla comes to mind. The Penguin decides to not only be subversive but in many ways choose the path that makes sense for its character. Penguin is a supervillain in the comics. And while transferred into a grounded crime drama, the fact that Penguin is meant to be an irredeemable bastard ie kept. Yeah he supports his mom, yeah he mentors Vic, yeah maybe he genuinely believes that he’s helping the underclass take on the upper class. But the dude literally wants to be a mother fucker, screws over everyone he works for & under him, kills anybody in his way including friends and allies, & has no remorse in that. In many ways Penguin is a true gangster story in that it does not shy from the reality that gangsters are monsters who will kill and beat down anyone in their way.

[@Loki-g3k]

Do you think giving a tragic backstory to a villain doesn't really work?? Or should it've been done properly to write a complex character?

[@andrebmkt]

Penguin is evil, but having been captured 5 times throughout the series……… he’s more lucky (plot armor) than competent.

[@Victor-qx3vx]

I wouldn’t say it was mere luck. A lot of Oz’s successes were due to improvising on the spot but he needed to take action and fool others for it to work. That’s part of his appeal on the show though. He is not a mastermind (not yet anyway). He is s someone who’ll take risks in order to get what he wants and will often bite more than he can chew. If it weren’t for that there wouldn’t be much tension on the show.

[@Realistically100]

I don't know who needs to hear this but, Deathstroke would be amazing for the Matt Reeves Bat Man movies, Honorable mention Bane of course.

[@nitaallensong1014]

I am afraid that the Matt Reeves universe was just supposed to be a little side project, kind of like what Nolan did. But especially with the penguin show, it's so good that it's a threat to James Gunn's entire DC universe. So I think they're going to scrap one and force the other on us. We just don't need more garbage DC movies and TV shows. I hope they keep putting out quality stuff.

[@srstriker6420]

So what’s next Moriarty as he gets a movie before meeting Sherlock Holmes

[@sullivandmitry1416]

I liked Joker 2 because I watched it for what it was not what I may or may not have wanted. What it gave me was fine and I didn’t think it was bad

[@NiteOwl2000]

Nice video, just subbed

[@callmev3531]

2:12, In theory, both Joaquin Phoenix's Joker and Colin Farrell's Penguin both attempt to fool the audience to sympathizing with the ultimate villain of their stories, but one does more to remind the audience that they are watching the villain, not a hero or an anti-hero. Penquin may do it to an extent, especially in how it gives him antagonists to fight against, but in the end, he is the worst of them all these greedy, barbaric individuals, even if he is the protagonist of the series. 2:34, Joker and Joker 2 had the potential of deconstructing the figure of the trickster mastermind as the deluded power fantasy of a mentally ill loner, born out of spite and loneliness, before it evolves into this iconic symbol that grows beyond the mortal man it came from, getting co-opted by other angry outsiders like himself, while taking away the focus from his issues and what made him the way he is, but it executed that idea poorly.

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

My problem with some of the villain movie shows, is that they weite their protagonist as evil. They either write them as an antihero or they seek to redeem like with Loki, I personally think it would be ideal if we got a Breaking Bad type story with a supervillain. A show or a movie about someone becoming an evil monster.

[@Elijah_Elias]

I thought Penguin isn’t a supervillain though. Isn’t he a normal human who just happens to be short and tubby?

[@Victor-qx3vx]

What do you mean by supervillain? Like, a villain with superpowers or just one of the main villains of a hero?

[@Elijah_Elias]

@ I always thought the actual definition of Supervillain was a villain with superhuman abilities. Same way a superhero is just that, a hero with superhuman abilities.

[@Victor-qx3vx]

@@Elijah_EliasYes. Usually that’s the case. But in the case of this video’s title it probably just means comic book villain. Or he put “supervillain” to emphasize they should be evil.

[@samsterling3332]

"we have had plenty of anti-hero movies and shows throughout the years but it wasn't really until (lists two characters who have been antiheros in comics since the 90s)" your information is flawed, but your messaging is correct, so your point stands. If we are being pedantic the first supervillain movie is suicide squad 2016 as much as that hurts to say, followed by Joker, everything else falls into antihero content.

[@zulkifli4201]

Even though Suicide Squad filled with Villain I dont think it's considered as Villain Movie tho

[@theblankproductionhouse]

@@samsterling3332 admittedly, yes Venom hasn’t been a villain in quite a while but his character is totally tied to starting as a villain, which is why I included it

[@samsterling3332]

@zulkifli4201 I disagree, their actions are not heroic or for any desire to help others, it's villains forced by another villain to clean up that same villain's mess through threats of death

[@Victor-qx3vx]

You can go further back actually as long as we don’t count just superheroes stuff. Back in 2014 Disney did the antihero treatment on Maleficent.

[@Bruce_wayne69_edits]

it is not about evil or broken villian it is about writing like joker 2019 is really good i see it as a prequel to dark knight joker i don't care about joker 2

[@justthinkingoutloud2538]

Dang it, I'm in the middle of editing a video that basically says exactly what you said here. I swear this keeps happening. Anyway, great video!

[@theblankproductionhouse]

@@justthinkingoutloud2538 you should still post it! I’d love to hear your take

[@justthinkingoutloud2538]

@theblankproductionhouse I was literally about to post it, and then I screwed up editing as I was saving the file, so now I have to start all over. Maybe it will be out tomorrow, maybe not.

[@Edwardrabbit]

you're absolutely wrong about agatha all along, we need the witches road song MORE give us MORE DISNEY GODDAMNIT GIVE US MORE

[@zulkifli4201]

Consumerism at its finest

[@ceccascorp8149]

​@@zulkifli4201 When you like something you want more of it. It's not like: Damn I like icecream, I hope I get as little of it as possible

[@iliyapourmohammad]

Us? There’s no us It’s just you, not even all Marvel fans like it

[@iliyapourmohammad]

Us? There’s no us It’s just you, not even all Marvel fans like it

[@TestGoogle-jh5hw]

​@@iliyapourmohammad why is this nigga commenting twice

[@zacarriomcbride972]

Nice

[@koji6745]

Ok but Agatha is indeed very much a if not the villain

[@Comicbroe405]

Yeah exactly. The finale like Penguin's showed that she ain't redeeming herself anytime soon.

[@eevee-g9c]

i like this video good job

[@NK-dt1kp]

Why is Agatha in the thumbnail, the whole point of the series was to show how evil she was

[@mateushenriquepinheiro3197]

Maybe because the marketing didn't convey that at all? For me at least I didn't feel like they were trying to sell her as a villain, but then again I don't watch Disney plus series

[@motor4X4kombat]

evil as a care bears villain

[@রেবিলচৌধুরী]

​@@motor4X4kombatShe is a literal serial killer

[@motor4X4kombat]

@@রেবিলচৌধুরী so is loki

[@রেবিলচৌধুরী]

@@motor4X4kombat The difference is 1) they ignore Loki's mass murder count in the show. 2) Loki is contrasted with more evil characters to make him look good. Agatha's evil actions are neither ignored, nor contrasted with more evil characters. She is genuinely the worst person in the room in every scene. They don't even try making her likeable by acting nice to her underling like Penguin/Vic. Most of her good deeds are shown as impulsive choices she regrets.

[@MorganEdgy]

Can't aggree with you on Agatha, tho. Sure, she sacrificed herself for Billy in the end but that's just one final act of redemption... AND SHE DIED. The rest of the show she was a bad guy through and through. I mean for Wanda's sake, the very penultimate scene has her sucking the life out of a bunch of witches, and it's never really explained why she steals their power, she just does. Like Oswald Cobble... uh, _"Cobb"_ ... She's evil.

[@00pium_kingvampstan]

While I don’t agree with what you were saying, (as there is different levels to being a villain, like Agatha being a witch serial killer, vs. Penguin strangling Vic) I can’t say this video wasn’t entertaining, personally loved Agatha, and Penguin, also the Witches Road is a bop. (Highly recommend the Lorna Wu version)

[@2301WAYNE]

Most of these movies like venom are terrible, but If you remove joker bias and all it's actually a good patient movie. Yes also Black Adam's character is not done justice the movie is still awesome as per marvel standards. But then again The Dark Knight trilogy also disrespects and ruins Batman's character completely and make it look stupid and less cool compared to the originally in The Batman Comic Books. Even though I enjoy them as movies even though it's terrible adaopatation.

[@RJRigs]

Ah yes! Another armchair KZbinr who thinks Venom is a villain.

[@theblankproductionhouse]

“Venom hasn’t been a villain in the comics in a very long time”… did you miss that part?

[@remipaulsingh7160]

Ah yes! Another opinionated asshole who hasn’t watched the whole video.

[@MrSamMaloney]

Madame Webb isn't a villain

[@sedlyholmes3722]

Joker phoenix is not my favorite villian, health ledger is better tbh

[@TheN1ghtwalker]

Nobody gives a shit about a C-list villain.

[@Victor-qx3vx]

Batman has a ton of fun C list villains. All they need is an opportunity to shine in a good story. But I assume you’re talking about Agatha, since Penguin is an A list villain.

[@TheN1ghtwalker]

@@Victor-qx3vx Even if he was an A list villain, doesn't mean he needs his own show. But he's not. He's not Joker or Bane or Mr. Freeze. He's just a mobster with an umbrella.

[@Victor-qx3vx]

@@TheN1ghtwalker​​⁠A C list would be what I call someone like Calendar Man. And even that sort of villain can be interesting if the writing is good. When Penguin was created he was actually one of Batman’s most popular villains, second only to the Joker and appearing quite often in stories. In the end it’s all a matter of taste. Personally, Penguin just cracks my top 5. And I have stories such as “Pain and Prejudice” and “He who laughs last” to thank for that. I remember as a kid, being angry whenever Penguin was shown in Arkham because “he is just a mobster. Not as cool as the others” and these stories showed me he is much more than a mobster with an umbrella. I actually miss the umbrella weapons. Such a silly yet fun gimmick. Unfortunately it doesn’t appear often outside comics and cartoons. Besides, the show was good. I’m not complaining for getting something I didn’t know I wanted.

[@Julio-Ces4r]

The difference between The Penguin from the others is, The Penguin is good, and if Agatha is one of the best Marvel shows, that isn't a good thing...

[@James-ev6dk]

Great video. I haven't seen Agatha and I'm not remotely interested so I won't. I haven't seen Venom 3 but already know I'm not gunna enjoy it based on the other two (especially the Carnage one) I agree with everything else tho!

[@thebatmanbadass30000]

What's a matter with you?? Agatha is a lot better than venom, and she is bad, but with a heart, i guess, lol

[@thebatmanbadass30000]

Oh, that song is pretty catchy, too 😂

[@zulkifli4201]

Agatha was okay Still not the best if you compare it to Penguin consider how messy Wanda Vision and MCU right now

[@A_r78]

Marvel sux

[@iraford5788]

​@@A_r78Marvel>>>>DC.

[@A_r78]

@@iraford5788 😂 avengers too busy voting for Kamela

[@anakinlowground5515]

@@iraford5788 Marvel used to be great, but man, it really fell off

[@LukeSkywalker-lq2lq]

Jinx is better

[@FreshFalcon]

Madame web isn't a villain. The movie stoll sucks though

[@theblankproductionhouse]

@@FreshFalcon there’s so little madame web content in the world, I did sorta just lump her with the rest

[@FreshFalcon]

@@theblankproductionhouse understandable bro don't worry 👍

[@Marvellite]

How is Agatha not a villain show? Shes arguably worse than penguin and she killed way more people than he has

[@YnotNomis]

Agreed with everything except for Joker. in the first movie..he's a VILLAIN! Kills those Jerks on train! Kills Mother. Kills Co-Worker. Kills Murry. Made to believe he Killed his Neighbor and daughter....but in the second movie...he's just pathetic. And MCU has NEVER done any of their villains right.

[@sylvanustv8530]

Yeah, did you watch Agatha all along?

[@theblankproductionhouse]

@@sylvanustv8530 I did

[@sylvanustv8530]

@@theblankproductionhouse and you came out of it thinking she was a good guy??? I'm confused here

[@theblankproductionhouse]

@ not a good guy, but definitely not a bad guy. Like I said, they had interesting ideas but the execution didn’t work (for me)

[@sylvanustv8530]

@@theblankproductionhouse wow, you scam and murder innocent people for +200years with no remorse But some guy on the internet still doesn't think you're a bad guy😔 Seriously, What does a woman have to do to be a bad guy in this town?🤔

[@Spenglenoodle]

@@sylvanustv8530 yeah and she's still presented in a better light, she's not the villain of the series

[@Bleplar]

hey can u delete this video

[@BraveSpearX]

I agree with you in almost every way besides when you said agatha all along is like any other show. There has never been another super hero show with this much woke garbage, disgusting scum of the earth.

[@theblankproductionhouse]

@@BraveSpearX the only “scum of the earth” is you whining about “woke”. Grow up.

[@iraford5788]

No one will take you seriously if you just keep throwing the word "woke" around with absolutely no meaning.

[@Victor-qx3vx]

@@iraford5788Even if it had any meaning it’d still be hard to take anyone who says “woke” on the internet seriously.