The Retro Video Game Scam Gets Worse...

[@karljobst]

This seems a bit sus. Big thanks to Displate for sponsoring the vid! Check out Displate's Black Friday sale! Get 1-2 Displates for 34% off, 3-4 Displates for 38% off, and 5+ for 42% off! (Discount automatically applied at checkout): displate.com/promo/karljobst/?art=5fd15d5fdf43c

[@beanburrito4405]

Mayhaps an imposter is amogus?

[@aria56703]

fr bruh 😂

[@robobo1726]

amogus

[@frogc.]

Frrrrrrr bro good job 👍

[@ROBOHOLIC1]

The phrases "sus" and "among us" trigger laughter within me now. It's not even funny. It's just a reflex. Help.

[@reminiscentiaoff4669]

This is all horrendous, but one thing gives me such a viscerally disgusted reaction; Buying and killing old databases is repulsive.

[@DarthCrust66]

I agree they’re literally destroying efforts of preservation

[@Drjebus]

The modern-day equivalent of a book burning.

[@Kormeister]

Such databases ought to be considered and defined as immaterial heritage. Perhaps denoting it as such and having that recognition can prevent something similar.

[@AlteredNova04]

Actively seeking out and destroying public product databases in order to make buyers more ignorant so they can better manipulate the market. Absolutely disgusting behavior, they should rot in prison for such blatantly anti-consumer practices.

[@theUBERsashimi]

Ten dollar words for a ten cent conversation, bud. Remember, your head still has to fit through a standard doorway on a daily basis.

[@Tolly7249]

I was talking about the last video with my dad, a retired commercial lawyer who was practicing during the coin bubble in the 80s. As soon as I mentioned the names of the people involved, my normally pretty chill dad WENT OFF. All of these assholes have form over the last thirty years and it's honestly a wonder any of them are allowed to be involved in this kind of trading.

[@AFake_Human]

@@grunkleg.2934 A guy just being casually antisemitic... Disgusting

[@marksmidt8225]

@@grunkleg.2934 just some troglodyte going through all the comments being anti-Semitic, pathetic

[@Enkabard]

​@ yes because non-Hanukkah business would never do anything unethical, seriously anti-semites must be the most depressed, boring people imaginable, just taking something as common as corruption which is present no matter what culture, religion, ethnicity and trying to say "well only jews would do that" .... you have knowledge and mind open as horse you have beaten to death

[@morbideddie]

@@grunkleg.2934 It's pretty worrying. Normally they would just sit there, ignored or ratioed but It seems there are a lot of closet racists in the youtube comment section.

[@morbideddie]

@@GeeCee-pv7ik can we stop pretending racism isnt something people cant be concerned about? No one is triggered except you, moaning on and on because some scammers happen to belong to a paticular ethnic group. Grow up.

[@antonsundin2974]

I like how Mr Karl Jobst made an hour long very detailed video and the response by Wata and Heritage was 1-2 short paragraphs basically amounting to and I'm paraphrasing "Mr Jobst was mistaken, we didn't do anything bad, trust me bro."

[@geeknat8981]

Karl Jobst: Well-sourced evidence, logical explanation, valid proof. Wata and Heritage: trust me bro

[@gamingmoyai3950]

@@geeknat8981 sources: dude trust me I swear to god bro!

[@JuanWonOne]

Its trust me Mario, bro.

[@Chaos.A]

They might as well have just responded with "no"

[@jerrypiper3936]

Idk why they would respond on any platform at all. I’m sure it’s a troll

[@chrisramsden9678]

The fact that WATA and Heritage called you a liar without actually suing you is basically undeniable proof that they're lying themselves.

[@xoana4197]

Also I love how they say that an hour long video is baseless and don't even mention one of the sources he uses.

[@NathansWargames]

they know they'd lose in court if they sued him so they can deny it and not sue and leave it as that

[@MrAnniTagada]

They're not as stupid as silly bitchell

[@derkevevin]

They cry out in pain as they strike you LOL! Classic👃🏻

[@Starkiller5121]

Well there is a known liar who called Karl a liar and also is suing him, which makes him a liar squared.

[@NintenUnity]

This is what actual journalism looks like. Thank you so much for this Karl. It's sad how rare real journalism is nowadays.

[@LeetTron5000]

its sad that a seasoned speedrunner/youtuber is the best journalist this era has to offer. A follow up to a previous vid ad its 51 minutes of information with cited sources. Journalist are so bad as to write follow up articles on what Karl is suggesting, pretty hilarious.

[@jason2mate]

@@LeetTron5000 I mean it's this and comedians that seem to be the best news on anything, because proper "Journalists" are too worried they will lose their contacts breaking stories like these.

[@Kage-jk4pj]

Journalist Seth Abramson was responsible for all the new information in this video. He took Karl Jobst video and did further digging. He's the one who documented and discover Mark Haspels side business selling WATA certified atari games. Which is a major conflict of interest. This exposure is what then led to Haspel's Facebook post.

[@salvatronprime9882]

It's about ethics in video game journalism, lololololol

[@Shawns_snapshots]

Karl and Gamer‘s Nexus are the last bastions of truth I guess.

[@JiMMyCalrissian]

Karl exposing scammers in the video game world is the equivalent of Coffeezilla exposing the scammers in the financial world. Keep doing what you’re doing man. It’s appreciated

[@LloydWaldo]

We love Karl! Karl, I’ve been in touch with your agent about sponsoring you in this fight. Still interested to do so.

[@deadmilkman121]

Pump $KARL

[@Taolan8472]

Considering the heavy financial tones in this video... anybody else smell a collab opportunity?

[@shinozu]

@@deadmilkman121 Save the Karls

[@2yoyoyo1Unplugged]

@@goatretrogamer Username checks out, but unfortunately throwing out such a ridiculous claim without any tangible data or evidence to back it up is not exactly the level of argument most people would typically expect of a Dean.

[@Bismuth9]

How bad is it that I immediately recognized the SMB1 speedrun as being by Kosmic?

[@sealessseadog2735]

*It's very bad*

[@thomasrocke]

Go see a doctor, you gotta get that checked out

[@simpa94]

@ lol

[@damian9303]

@ not really bad considering they make it obvious

[@sssj806]

I'm right there with you dude 🤦‍♂️ I gotta stop watching this shit... Can't even play a game properly anymore because I just wanna see how quickly I can finish it 🤣

[@ScubaDiverPicker]

I’ve been collecting for 10 years. These games aren’t worth anywhere close to their current prices. Not even close. Wata & HA are scam artists. Period. These games aren’t close to being as rare as these companies project. They also don’t disclose if the games actually are being paid for. As many that have sold never got paid for and they won’t disclose that info. A person who works for HA even said if a game goes high by then doesn’t get paid for by the winning bidder and the 2nd place bidder doesnt agree to pay their offer then they hide the game and act like it did sell to keep the price point. Then put back up for auction down the road. This shit will CRASH so hard. 100% speculative based on false and manipulated information.

[@DarkPaladin1130]

Nailed it!!!!

[@LostStarzOfTheSky]

They should at least pull this scheme with a rare game like an English copy of earthbound

[@jboy55]

Re: The rarity, they sold 10s of millions of these games, the loose cost of a Super Mario Bros cart is < $10, but somehow factory sealing it means its > $10k? Where is the comparable market where there is a 1000x increase for sealed in history (not in the last 3-4 years). I looked up a hot wheels factory sealed car from 1970, that sold for $1,700 with 38 bids. Now a very common Nintendo game made in the 80s is 15k, because its sealed still? BS

[@sorrenblitz805]

@@jboy55 not just common. Mario Bros was a Pack-In game. It literally came with EVERY Console unit. It's like having a boxed copy of Combat for Atari 2600 and saying it's worth 150K

[@blodguizer]

@@sorrenblitz805 Defender for Atari 2600 sells for $10 loose and about $40 in box on Ebay unless of course you have a WATA graded copy which you try to sell for over $4000.

[@ryanbradley248]

I love how a goat goldeneye speedrunner has reinvented as a legit journalist and truth seeker in a field he’s passionate about and has been able to monetize it. Absolute legend

[@TruFalco]

He became what Apollo tried to become.

[@sackydzNG]

@ Did ya really have to bring up Jews?

[@phaeste]

@ yes its incredibly wrong. Their religion has nothing to do with this and going out of your way to point it out is just kinda antisemitic

[@varnix1006]

@@phaeste more like avoiding antisemitism, just in case someone had the big brain idea of using jewish victim card as criminal defense.

[@sackydzNG]

@ Religion does not matter in this instance. It adds nothing to the conversation and the way you pointed it out makes you look antisemitic.

[@LegalBytesMedia]

Thanks so much for letting me add my two cents, Karl! This was a great experience! 😄

[@adamled99]

LegalBytes I simp

[@AlanFergusonSA]

Your section of this video was so well-explained and easy to understand! Thanks for your analysis here

Are you endorsing Karl without enclosing your relationship? Hmmm

[@trentsayers951]

Great legal breakdown, very well explained.

[@Slann88]

@how does one enclose a relationship?

[@aaronb4571]

You should feel really proud, you broke the flood gates wide open and everyone started looking into these shady people and their companies, you care about games and like all of us hate to see these leeches come into the market just to con people out of their money, you really are an absolute legend karl, I hope you realize that

[@jongyon7192p]

@ ?

[@bigmoneyswager]

@@jongyon7192p he’s literally going to every comment on this video commenting this garbage just block and ignore

[@jongyon7192p]

@@bigmoneyswager thank you, that terrible anti-semetic comment is gone now

[@jakkaphatkaewthong3352]

@@bigmoneyswager well that coward disappear huh? Good

[@MashaRistova]

“If you open the door for fraud, it eventually accepts the invitation” Words of wisdom right there

[@HappyMealBieber]

If anything should be worth $1M its that advice from Karl

[@cozymonk]

Wata games and heritage auctions: "We wish you would have included us in the discussions about the allegations" Also Wata and Heritage: "We have nothing to say about the allegations."

[@inasuma8180]

Also wata and heritage: “lies.” I mean duh, why would they respond any other way 😂

[@ornji]

Amazing how much of a difference even refuting a couple of points would have made - instead its just "its not true, we are perfect, our customers (who are also us/our friends) agree". How ignorant do they think people are?

[@deforged]

aside from being apparent lies, those 2 statements are not contradictory due to the definition of the word "allegations" so the "x, also x" meme format doesn't really work here at all.

[@The_Bird_Bird_Harder]

@@AA-lz4wq To hell with your antisemitism.

[@The_Bird_Bird_Harder]

@@deforged It's not that they're contradictory, but moreso that they wish to be involved in the discussion, but have nothing of substance to add to it, even in their defence.

[@onikoneko]

You are a journalist. In the way that journalism was *meant* to be, doing the legwork and exposing shittiness no matter what enemies you make or what crawls out from the rocks you overturn

[@TheDanmanimal]

No biases, no information manipulation, not a hint of venom in his reporting. Just straight truth and plenty of evidence to back it up. Like you said mate, journalism at its finest.

[@bsherman8236]

Vigilant journalist

[@Anothet4]

Amen

[@zeikjt]

Them: "We wish we'd had a chance to respond before the video went out" Karl: Shows evidence he tried to reach out. Conclusion: They didn't think he'd have any effect and decided not to respond, now they regret it.

[@gunsmithbasic]

Nah it's all a PR battle and they want to steer perception of Karl as negative. They do not regret avoiding talking to him. It's all to make media outlets sheepish about covering this story, even if its for a short period of time. Of course now they look like liars, or incompetent. It is possible that they didnt know that they were contacted. Some employee could have got the message and there's a standard response to ignore those, or thay they just forgot that had this contact.

[@zeikjt]

@@gunsmithbasic ah yeah, of course that's the scummy angle

[@krampusklaws2238]

Lying is so engrained into these kinds of people it's their go to response for any accusation. I's the equivalent of being caught with their hand in the cookie jar and denying they are doing it. Despite unconditional proof they deny deny deny.

[@AtariBorn]

I love how one of the bad guys in this is named "Denies Con", only spelled different.

[@Anothet4]

Severely underrated comment

[@luginess0]

@@Anothet4 agreed

[@varsityreviews707]

I guess I’m too young. I don’t get it

[@flaminginferno6641]

@@varsityreviews707 Denies Con Denying a con They are denying all wrong doing and insisting they aren't basically con-artists.

[@STEVE_K_J]

It almost sounds like a Phoenix Wright name. Like Manfred von Karma

[@matt187_]

The investigative journalism we so desperately need more of. Thank you for holding these people accountable.

[@BlueBARv5]

I agree 100%..

[@SUPERFunStick]

Yeah, Karl should tackle the federal reserve next lol

[@davedingobeast]

These types of people are immune to trouble with the law.

[@SUPERFunStick]

@@davedingobeast you mean rich people don't get in trouble

[@ruipedroleite]

I'm a lawyer and I find your dedication and attention to detail mind-blowing. You're a fucking inspiration

[@Stephen__White]

I love how they try to claim that that Super Mario Bros cart is the most valuable game ever, yet Nintendo World Championships 1990 is a thing, and even back as far as 2014 had a copy sell for over 100,000$. And that was a copy that wasn't graded, had it's front label tore off, and was described as in acceptable condition. So even their claim of it being the most valuable game is provably false.

[@JaymeSplendid]

Not to mention it was THE cart that was bundled with the NES before they began adding the lightgun and then having the Mario/Duckhunt cart. SMB has to be one of if not the most printed NES games of all time.

[@YojiroX]

They're just using Super Mario because most people who aren't really into games have probably heard of "Mario" and "Nintendo" that's why they're abusing those to market themselves since it is so recognisable. If they go on to a show like Pawn Stars and show up with some actual rare game that almost nobody has ever heard of it most likely wouldn't stick in the average viewers mind but by using something they know/remember it has a bigger impact and tricks them into thinking the things they own themselves might be worth a lot of money. It's a pretty insidious mental manipulation trick intentionally done this way to set up their scam business, inflating the value of an actual rare item usually doesn't affect the whole industry but inflating the value of the most common items can ripple and cause chaos from value/price uncertainty and confusion which is what these type of companies want so they can inject themselves as self-proclaimed "experts" to take control of how much things are worth.

[@Beowulf891]

Those of us who collect for fun, passion and enjoyment already knew all of this was complete bullshit and we've been clowning grading since VGA popped up. Any time people ask about grading, actual collectors, who do it because it's their passion, rail against it, me included. There's basically no good collection reason to grade anything but the most common is protecting the box, but there are so many companies that will provide custom cases that grading for that is pointless. Grading companies have been known to damage products when sealing them in those cases too. Why would I trust a bunch of clowns with a rare game worth five figures?! While I'm not a retro console game collector, I still know that the original Super Mario Bros and Legend of Zelda are not even close to holy grails. They're so common in NES collections that there is little reason for any of them to be worth all that much. Sealed or not. These clowns know nothing about collecting and what's actually sought after. They pick the popular things everyone, even non-gamers, know about to make it more recognizable to more people. Just another layer of deception. More collectors are turning on Wata and it is glorious.

[@thatrandonamedrandy]

As a matter of fact, the original Super Mario Bros. sold over 40 million copies. It's nowhere NEAR rare at all, especially when put up against classic games and modern games. So the claim that it's worth 1 million dollars is silly, since it is a common game to find. I understand that some of the sales figures came from the fact that it was packed in with the NES, but even then, it is FAR from rare at all. Sorry for the late rant, I felt like I needed to vent a little.

[@drpibisback7680]

After all, if you really want to keep the box mint, you could just buy a safe and keep the games in there - and you don't need a chisel to open it if you ever want to play the damn games!

[@blodguizer]

There's lots of WATA graded games up for sale on Ebay at ridiculously inflated prices including a copy of ET for the Atari 2600 going for 50k. No legitimate gamer will touch these for good reason and they will likely sit on Ebay unsold indefinitely.

[@janikarkkainen3904]

The saddest thing here is the deletion of NintendoAge database. Sure, there's a lot of wrong shown in this video, but that one breaks my heart - if I understood correctly, it was volunteer driven, which means people passionate about it spent countless hours on making the database complete, and now it's just... gone.

[@jesalbeta]

it was fucking great, i remember using it all the time to check if retro games i bought were original because of all the fakes on the secondhand market, troves of valuable information on how to tell the slightest of differences concerning real versions vs. reproductions now gone

[@zandelscomicsandcards7543]

Gone so that rich ass holes can make up their own opinion of what the stuff is worth.

[@elidrissii]

Can its content be salvaged and republished using the wayback machine? I don't know if the pages were locked behind a login screen.

[@markkelly9095]

Wouldn’t say gone, more put within the company database to “guide” their valuations.

[@markkelly9095]

It can be retrieved if one contact hosting company etc..

[@tradeka4206]

I love how the creator of sonic is like “bro my game isn’t worth that much what’s going on here”

[@iShionSinX]

TFW a copy sells for more than the budget for its production.

[@MrVariant]

yeah lol at the rate this is going, you'll be able to fund low budget movies with 1 game lol. Couldn't help but think of sonic 2 when you said that.

[@shanez1215]

I'd love it if Sega and Nintendo reprinted the game as big FU to these assholes.

[@MightyJabroni]

What I think is the most hilarious part of it, is that these make-believe "incredibly valuable" video game cartridges are not rare at all. They are all from power house IPs, that were often among the best selling games of their respective consoles. So any collector knows how contrived these prices are. Mario Bros. was the most sold game for the NES by far. And guess what the most sold game for the Sega Genesis was.That's right, Sonic The Hedgehog with a cool 15 million copies! So it is FAR from rare. To pretend that it would be a collector's wet dream doesn't even begin to make sense. The games, that typically command the highest prices among collectors, are natutrally the ones that flopped comercially and/or had low print runs, but were still critically acclaimed. The cult hits, so to speak. Because naturally they are the hardest to get your hands on, since they are rarely sold. That is not exactly what you can say about the Super Mario's and Sonic's of this world, who were and are basically killer IPs. And even the actual highly sought after collectibles don't come close to the absurd price ranges, that these auction house bullshitters try to fabricate between themselves. This is all just a scheme, to sepearte people with money, who happen to don't know dick about video games, from their cash.

[@MrVariant]

@@MightyJabroni lol sonic the hedgehog cartridge would even say not for resale 🤣 as it was bundled with the Genesis. Lo and behold they're being disobedient.

[@puellanivis]

I think the most damning part of “would the public’s perception of the value of this item change if the relationship were disclosed and known to them” is proven by just how much response has been had to your video. That people are seriously going, “oh crap, maybe WATA certification is barely worth the plexiglass it’s printed on?” means that people are judging the value of things differently post disclosure.

[@plasticflower]

So does that mean the prices of the games are negatively influenced? I mean, do you know anything about the prices of the games? Did they go down since the first video? (I'm asking because I'm not keeping track of related news outside of these videos by Karl Jobst)

[@paulroche6969]

@@plasticflower watching the video you are commenting on until the very end would be a good place to start answering your question. An SM64 sold after Karl released his video sold for half of one sold before his video. They had identical ratings. It's only one example, but it's still pretty interesting.

[@Kormeister]

@@paulroche6969 That is VERY interesting.

[@sintanan469]

It wouldn't surprise me if WATA cheapened out and used plexi for their cases. If the cases are of high quality then they'd be made from Acrylite OP3 acrylic instead of generic plexiglass acrylic.

[@puellanivis]

@@plasticflower My argument does not even rely upon “did the prices of the games go down at all”. My argument is simply that reasonable people are questioning if the prices out there are legit, because what WATA has done seems shady. This means the knowledge of the relationships between the various players would cause a reasonable person to come to a different value conclusion. Thus, these relationships needed to have been disclosed at the time. That wash traders and conspirators are willing to pay inflated prices in their own ecosystem is immaterial. We do not judge the necessity of disclosure based on if people with a self-interest in a higher price agree to higher prices. We base it on if a reasonable person would evaluate the price differently.

[@AurediumRiptide]

There is another concern regarding sealed games like NES or SNES. I come from the TGC scene and I can tell you that the wrappers of these games are just plain old blank non-described wrappers. It makes sense since Nintendo was never expecting them to be collectables. However, such seals can be made 1-on-1 these days. The box might be an original as it is usually hard to exact duplicate the ink and cardboard the box is made of but that says nothing about the actual content. A common scam in the TCG world is to reseal already opened boxed that have the most valuable items removed. This works especially well since many that buy sealed boxes (especially the older ones) never open them; they are speculative pieces to sell at a later time for more money. WOTC has made it harder to stamp their foil but even then can be forged. If I wanted to make a lot of bucks cheap I would buy Super Mario Brothers copy with a pristine box, put the needed items in the box even if they are damaged and reseal it. On X-ray equipment it will show as being okay but it is in reality all just above shaft. but no-one will notice as they just keep it sealed for their collection or as an investment. Wata is basically opening the door for scammers and criminals to also use video games for this tactic. Unless you spend thousands on intense research without opening a sealed copy you will never know if you got a real one or a fake. Basically; Wata's copies could just be shaft that got over payed due to believing in grading. Would you believe wata's grading after knowing all this?

[@juanrivera6207]

I have been in the retro game collecting space for many years now, and I have to tell you that your reports have had a huge impact in the market. People are now unwilling to buy WATA graded games because of their deception. There does remain a minority of people who defend them to the death, but these are people who have a collection of WATA graded games and stand to gain from it. Thanks for your great work on this!!!

[@SockyNoob]

These videos are gonna keep helping! Just like how Todd Rogers and Billy Mitchell were taken down.

[@corylettelleir4797]

@@SockyNoob Rodd Togers*

[@samueld8413]

@@corylettelleir4797 *Todd Togers

[@juanrivera6207]

Oh also if you even put up a WATA game up for sale on the retro gaming groups ok facebook, you get clowned on relentlessly 😅

[@corylettelleir4797]

@@samueld8413 I failed. Thank you.

[@PatTheNESpunk]

Outstanding work, Karl. Thank you for putting in the time and effort in covering this artificially inflated market, filled with unethical bad actors. Unfortunately, the damage has been done and it is unsure what accountability there can be for these individuals, if any.

[@mimszanadunstedt441]

Other bad market is trading card games.

[@chrisbeach423]

Loved seeing you and Ian in these videos, if anyone knows anything about these topics.. its you. Been a sub for over 8 years, will die a sub, keep fighting the good fight Pat/Ian

[@charliemallonee2792]

@@mimszanadunstedt441 I don’t know what happens in other card games, but Magic was screwed as soon as the reserved list was made.

[@booognish]

Hey Pat, how come you never messaged me back on Instagram?

[@MrGonzo861]

@Future Pants Lol @ 2 people ever being capable of altering the dynamics of basically any market.

[@Yomom12388]

LMAOOO. I work for the company that the FTC lawyer stated in her case law section, Standard Industries, at their subsidiary GAF. We make shingles and definitely still have GAF certified companies. Had no idea they were recently sued for the practice. Gonna have to ask about that at work. Though I will say them being sued for that sort of thing is unsurprising. I’m waiting for the feds to pop up and declare Standard Industries basically a roofing monopoly considering the company holds about 50% of the roofing market WORLDWIDE. It’s honestly kinda insane when you think about it.

[@ms-terious]

I've been collecting since i first got a 2600 in 1980. I currently have about 13,000 titles in my collection. I collect for the love of the format and the enjoyment i derive from playing or the idea of playing that which i own. Any 'collector' who proclaims video games are only now reaching their 'true' value are dead wrong. If that were the case, the oldest and rarest software/hardware would have greater tangible value due to scarcity/working examples. As it stands a sealed Pokemon game from 2004 is worth more than a PS1 dev kit. In my eyes that is not representative of 'true value'. These types of collectors are not in it for the love of the medium. They are in it for the speculative increases in price. The increase in collecting as an activity has been driven by this for at least the past decade. Of course they are going to be happy that their collections are appreciating irrespective of the ethics of viability driving it. 'Buh coooomics, buh traaaading cards' i often hear people proclaim. Video games as a consumer medium is far younger than either of those and far more resistant to damage and loss over time. A mario bros cart selling in the same ball park as Action Comics #1 is absolutely mental given its age, availability and plethora of decent examples.

[@Iivaitte]

It is so incredibly hard to keep a comic in good condition. Like unbelievably. They were printed on some of the flimsiest paper, easily damageable and become more fragile over time. Meanwhile although much more highly technical a 2600 game can play perfectly fine being just as old as some of these comics only being priced at 25$ a pop at most with the rare exception of the rarest 2600 game being 8000$ loose or 33,000$ CIB at pandemic prices, Prepandemic prices sitting at 4000$ and 33,000$ respectively. While being much flimsier than any nintendo game Meanwhile Wata has convinced people that its most popular (most printed) game CIB is worth 400$ a pop CIB and on top of that, its rarest game being 62,000$ loose. Super Mario bros for NES is popular but not rare in the slightest. It might just be the absolutely most common NES game in the world.

[@Iivaitte]

To add to this, prepandemic price of Mario Bros for NES was 44$ CIB and now currently sits at the absurd price of 327$ because of everyone thinking their old games are a gold mine.

[@Thor-Orion]

The North American release of Panzer Dragoon Saga STILL has 10,000 made or whatever. And that’s far more rare than Mario or Sonic.

[@HugeDongusMan]

13,000? Holy shit dude congrats :D

[@olivermensinger6022]

You’re a true collector. I respect you.

[@MK-zf2sz]

"the same person at the top of the hierarchy was involved in the coin bubble of the 80s" It's crazy how scamming is almost never actually punished and pretty much every famous scammer has a provable history of it behind them.

[@volvo09]

Exactly! Like you find out about something scammy, and find out the guy running it was busted for 2 prior scams, or other shady things... Yet he says "this is legit, I've changed and want to help people". Surrreee......

[@Lunkanize]

@@Florida_Cracker oh, sod off

[@Alex-ui8xp]

It is, when you scam rich people. See Martin Skreli

[@frankabagnale6436]

@@Florida_Cracker If you nose you nose

[@sectphiro607]

@@frankabagnale6436 LMAO

[@fumoffu_l]

The unfortunate reality is that when these conmen get to court, it won't really matter. Large companies, and wealthy individuals knowingly break the law, not because they don't thing the law applies to them, but that they know when they get caught, that the fines will be less than 1% of the money they made from breaking the law in the first place. There in lies the real issue. If the consequences were they lose everything they've earned from breaking the law, and some on top of that, there would be real consequences. But as it stands, they will lose virtually nothing. And they will most likely do it again. Hell, one of the conmen from the coin bubble, who was found guilty of violated the FTC, walked away with so much of the money he made, that he's willing to do it again 30 odd years later. And the others will do the same 30 years from now as well.

[@WizoML]

At the very least, with more information out there, less people will fall for the same scam over and over again. History being doomed to repeat itself for those who don't learn from it, and all that.

[@Hibernial]

That’s how corporatism works. It’s deliberately so. Even down to the courts being in on it. Mind you the legal system as it exists profits from controversial or over-due cases being long and arduous in nature.

[@HardlegGaming]

Tl;dr if the punishment for a crime is a fine, then it's only a crime for poor people

[@zeikjt]

So much this. People are going to jail for much lesser crimes and these people barely get a slap on the wrist and will continue to do evil. It's all broken.

[@ayajade6683]

Shame we can't bring back tarring and feathering I'd settle for making these scumbags face a flock of geese tbh

[@Thiefnuker]

Karl: This is so unethical, here's a Video on the details. Them: Yeah maybe but this isn't illegal! Karl: This is illegal, here's a Video on the details.

[@lolimmune]

Big oof.

[@Orincaby]

i thlammed my penith in the car door

[@Jason_Van_Stone]

What is he whining about, now? In the long run, this is nothing short of 'eBay'. Am I wrong? 1. Are they forcing consumers to buy the product? No? Oh, ok. 2. Am I missing something? I'm really trying to see the point of this video, (besides the fact it drags ass with regurgitating "arguments".)

[@LorenzJahn]

@@Jason_Van_Stone He criticizes fraud.

[@Jason_Van_Stone]

@@LorenzJahn what a waste of time.

[@Octave_Rolland]

"Mere puffery" is a legal term that actually exists and this is absolutely delightful.

[@joshallen128]

Sheer fluffery

[@nickchivers9029]

@@joshallen128 clear buffery.

[@nedcurfman3486]

Rear huffery

[@WrathofDash]

Leer Butterfree

[@FloccinaucinihilipilificationD]

Peer Muffery 😏

[@tesserax8183]

I just wanna say, Karl's lawyer must be extremely happy. He makes a lot of enemies by making these videos, but the videos are always so well-founded with minimal error that you can't really go at him without losing lol

[@zackestin1368]

Law student here: lawyers don’t care about how easy a case is, in fact the ones that drag out as long as possible being an absolute disaster are the ones you make the most from. And your client is always innocent so.

[@bacicinvatteneaca]

@@zackestin1368 I mean, succeeding in keeping a client unhindered by long, aggravating legal battles can be a pretty good deal if you know they'll keep getting sued

[@sneezlebottom137]

Maybe someone should check that out. Seems like there might be a conflict of interest there. 🤔 Inb4 people take this comment seriously.

[@RedLifeMC]

@@zackestin1368 well... repeat clients are nice right? especially the fact that its really easy to defend? (just my opinion, im not a lawyer/law student... just a gamer)

[@MajorOutage]

Karl is in very good company when it comes to legal advice. I caught him commenting on one of Rikeita's roundtable livestreams (which LegalBytes also participates in) a few weeks ago.

[@HexedPedestrian]

"When crime is organized enough, it's not even illegal." - Huey Freeman

[@ultimate8125]

Your comment got stolen by an Account buyer, Zad

[@RequiemDream]

His name is "Diego Freeman" not "Huey Freeman"

[@bradlfsh]

Damn bro that's really how rich people be. I gotta watch the boondocks again

[@NickTaylorRickPowers]

You just described government

[@smerk429]

@@NickTaylorRickPowers yup especially during these bill gates Optimus prime flu times

[@ThinkBeforeYouSleepYT]

8:20 - If they actually thought they were defammatory then where is the lawsuit? I mean if Karl is lying then it should be INCREDIBLY easy to prove a financial loss from his video. Seems like an easy win... unless of course, the statements were not, in fact, defammatory.

[@Katrik3571]

While they are absolutely full of crap, it's not that simple to win a defamation lawsuit. At least in the US you need to either prove intention on the part of the defamer, or at least complete disregard for the truth. Karl simply showing some of the sources he got his information from would be enough to show he was genuine in his belief, and considering the number of people and experts he's consulted, it would be almost impossible to argue he didn't care what was true.

[@ManabiLT]

@@Katrik3571 This is true, but if they thought something was actually defamatory, they'd have called out those specific statements as being so. They didn't do that, which is the hallmark of someone that knows there is no actual defamation occurring.

[@mrsackboyfreak]

I love your videos!!

[@yetanotherbassdude]

@@Katrik3571 perhaps, but if the statements Karl made were false in some way, then Wata or Heritage could still have some legal grounds to begin proceedings even if Karl would have a good defence against them being actually libellous due to the reasons you mentioned. They clearly have far more money than him and could probably win just by outspending him on legal costs if the case had enough grounds to actually require a day in court, especially as he's already had to deal with a lawsuit from Billy Mitchell that cost him a lot, even though he won. That's not to say that Wata or Heritage won't sue in the future as, regardless of the validity of a lawsuit, it takes time to prepare everything for filing suit and they might still be working on something, but it does still seem quite telling that they've apparently made no moves or statements towards doing that in the months since Karl's first video.

[@DarkCrux]

I think part of the reason they don't sue, is because not only would it cost a shitload of money.. But it would attract too much attention, and the documents from the inner company would need to be disclosed, which they wouldn't want to do.

[@TheMarkcage]

Long story short, you dug up a shady practises and they s*** themselves now because of possible consequences coming up their way and will come up with even the most ridiculous excuses just to calm the situation down and possibly avoid it going further. Well done sir, much respect for shining a light on that.

[@CobaltTetris]

Speculators masquerading as collectors saying the market is undervalued is like the "source: dude just trust me" of the game collector market.

[@foiledthrice]

okCobalt makes great videos about tetris and marble blast Source: you don’t have to just trust me bro just watch one

[@jacobmonks3722]

I've been saying that people undervalued games for years. I didn't mean this.

[@tuginwho]

Omg cobalt hi

[@_PatrickO]

All the "collectors" shown in the video are all speculators too. They know the scam is on and do not care. Rising prices is the only way for these "collectors" to make money collecting. They are all knowingly riding the scam hoping to make money before it collapses. They do not care about the people who are losing so they can gain.

[@DubYuhGChoppa]

Source: Trust Me Bro

[@usagijojo]

9:22 This feels like one of those episodes of Columbo where the criminal gives away a crucial clue or piece of evidence away in a strange attempt at misdirection, but it only serves to further cement the criminal's guilt in Columbo's mind.

[@chiarosuburekeni9325]

Yeah that was a massive blunder and might by the reason this (hopefully) all comes crashing down.

[@zeikjt]

"Just one more thing"

[@starcrashr]

Turns out the used car dealership I saw on Facebook a few years ago with a bunch of fake reviews that turned out to be from employees and their families was breaking a lot more laws than I thought.

[@ChristinaMagma]

“As if legality is the purist benchmark for ethical business practices” 2:00 I’m saving this quote

[@benabaxter]

In the gentle spirit of learning, purist is a noun for someone with strict principles, while purest is the adjective for purity.

[@patrickderp1044]

the twitter files are such a perfect living example of this quote

[@Fuzy2K]

"It isn't illegal" is a hilarious defense. "Honey, did you cheat on me?" "Well, it isn't illegal!"

[@DanielRivera-on5qh]

They're a business though. Business is unethical

[@user-fi2zs2ww1r]

obv the subject is scummy but this comment is just not it. business to make a profit is unethical by nature, these guys are just more unethical than most. do you make profit by cheating on your SO?

[@DanielRivera-on5qh]

@@user-fi2zs2ww1r it's a truism to say a business is doing shady stuff they always do in different ways.

[@chompythebeast]

That's kinda how shitty capitalists work, though: Do everything they can within the law regardless of whom it fucks, and then when they're rich enough, they even go beyond the law in ways that nobody ever actually gets in trouble for

[@DanielRivera-on5qh]

@@maskettaman1488 so if you buy a video game for $60, and I give you $30 for it and I get $60 for it you don't think something is off about that?

[@SamGBSR]

It’s insaaane how surgical lawyers are with their language. Bringing in legal bites to basically make the accusations was a genius move, since everything she says is extremely calculated and could never be seen as slander or farse. Great stuff

[@THICCTHICCTHICC]

Well you can either be masterful with your speech, or you can lose the case. Not much in between

[@Jedza13]

It's the other way - our language is so vague that is very hard to be specific about anything

[@Rafael57YT]

@@Jedza13 agreed, her speech is really impressive. Even if it's a requirement for her job it really shines

[@phattjohnson]

Our language isn't vague - maybe the people you knock around with are :P

[@ShoRyuBarbie]

And she kept herself safe right from the start. "If Karl's information is correct..."

[@thishereanakinguy]

An absolute legend in journalism right here. Presents arguments involving legal statues in easy to understand ways while presenting sufficient background and proofs. Well done as always!

[@jaredkinneyjr]

Exactly! MSM today is all propaganda & basically owned by governments(Project Mockingbird) & is why you rarely ever see any meaningful "scandals" these days. The crooks that own everything aren't going to tell on themselves(ala Prince Harry & Epstein info wasn't allowed to be reported on). I'm still surprised the court system still works even sometimes especially when someone can print $ out of thin air & people will do absolutely anything for $. Even sell their own country, family or Mother Nature. This is what happens when a people turn evil & lose all morality unfortunately. PS: Journalism isn't dead. We still have Karl Jobst 👍

[@spicynoodle8870]

Such a legend,, maybe he should start a podcast about being a legend. lmao

[@totallyfrozen]

Usually, people get serious about ethics when they’re faced with prison. If this hasn’t been reported yet, it needs to be reported to the FTC and let them investigate. I read Jeff’s response. There are attempts at minimizing and redirecting obvious to me.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

23:59 "Everyone involved refuses to admit that basic ethics are important" That simply goes to show how far people will go for greed

[@Zakkarypillow]

Not only these people here too. There are plenty of other markets where those at the top of the food chain will do anything to go higher and make more money without considering or completely ignoreing the harm they could be doing to the people near the bottom.

[@jamespriest7328]

Or for their ideology.

[@TheExFatal]

Get a personality

[@weaboodoo2346]

On top of that they had more than enough money to retire.

[@AshkanKiani]

i wish i could hide your comments, because they’re basic and devoid of insight, yet constantly surfaced to the top simply because of your persistence. Truly quantity over quality.

[@booognish]

I love Pawn Stars playing a small part in all this. I mean, it’s relatively entertaining for a reality show, but it’s just SO blatantly staged and orchestrated..

[@KetsubanSolo]

Welcome to every reality show ever

[@MichaelPohoreski]

I'm shocked, shocked that *unreality* shows are fake! /s

[@richardtheconquerer]

@Paul Martin *attempts to sell a wooden chair* Rick: let me call my buddy, he's a chair expert *chair expert comes in* Oh wow, this is a 1844 McGregor chair. Let's look at the bottom. Initials are carved on it which read A.L. Rick: I better call in my wood signature carving expert *wood signature carving expert* This was Abraham Lincoln's chair. It's worth around $60k Rick: I'll give you $550

[@Bianca_Toeps]

I went to see that shop during a holiday in Las Vegas years ago. The whole thing is just a tourist attraction/gift shop now, only when they record, they empty it out and pretend they're a real pawn shop.

[@SayAhh]

@@richardtheconquerer Let me call my buddy. *buddy shows upand makes it within their production window*

[@ChubsTheOwl]

Karl Jobst: *spends hours meticulously investigating and clearly laying out examples of fraud by two companies* The Two Companies: "His video is totally baseless, just trust us"

[@SayAhh]

The two companies should run for president. /s

[@RaceBandit]

-Yeah, because that totally worked for Todd Rogers.- It's like someone's trying to say it's illegal to learn from mistakes.

[@JohnSmith-eg6bl]

Well, it's pretty much expected for every company to deny shit. What do people expect? "Oh, yeah, we're totall breaking the law and scamming people!" - Like, dafuq... This way they have a chance, no matter how small, to get away with whatever it is they're doing wrong or pay as little as possible in case of getting caught and sued. The moment they admit anything, it's cock-meat sandwich time.

[@fatsurprise7892]

"We asked ourselves if this sounded like something we would do, and we decided it did not. So, we are perfectly innocent and there is no need to investigate any further." - them, probably

[@kingjoe3rd]

​@@JohnSmith-eg6bl the smart thing to do would be to not say anything at all. don't deny it and don't confirm it. it really is that simple. now it can be used against them.

[@grey5626]

Thanks for the update. I seem to recall not long after your first video, there being an article on Kotaku referencing it, and somewhere in the comments there were connections drawn between Kotaku and other related entities. That story was pulled from their front page very shortly afterwards, even though months later they still have stale stories on the front page which predated it. The corruption in the aftermarket runs deep. Honest journalism, is hard to come by.

[@hanthonyc]

LegalBytes's analysis was really good! It makes a lot of sense when compared to previous cases and with court-specific terms, and the way she laid it out was easy to follow too :)

[@Taka.1011]

What anime is your avatar from?

[@SeanSMST]

@@Taka.1011 sukade

[@chiarosuburekeni9325]

I'm sure it was good analysis but i had to skip through every second of it. I'm only here for Jobst. Plus her mic sucked so I couldn't deal with the drop in production quality.

[@lukec4096]

Agreed. Subbed.

[@bbbbbbb51]

@@chiarosuburekeni9325 imagine skipping out on good legal analysis because of audio quality

[@Paulo27]

I think the fact that they didn't sue Karl yet just shows how guilty they are, because they know if they went to court of this "defamation" then they'd get their shit kicked in even more.

[@Johnnydubois]

They sold thier ownership instead.

[@rjc276]

Him being in Australia helps, and while I’m 100% with Karl on this, I wouldn’t celebrate too early. It’s quite possible they have plans to crush him financially. Sadly, baddies have won before in the court of law, or at least been successful in getting the accused to retract statements and apologise. I hope it doesn’t happen, but we also need to wait and see.

[@meepmeeepmeeeep]

;@@rjc276 well said, this shitty lopsided world. But 100% hooefully Karl comes out on top, bc I agree, this is hardly over

[@bubba200874426]

@@rjc276 this wouldn't win a defamation claim in the US, anyway. They would have to prove Karl made claims he knew weren't true.

[@mjriemen]

@@rjc276 I think it would by suing Karl, they would be bringing attention to this and it would be reported in the media, youtube, etc. So its probably in their financial interest to not bring more eyes to his videos. As such I dont see him getting sued. Also, in most of his videos from what I can remember, he usually says “allegedly” and doesnt make statements of truth that are not fact checked.

[@sleepydragonzarinthal3533]

gotta love when someone is SO desperate to do damage control, they get sloppy and further implicate themselves

[@SoujiaSoldierKitty]

@Scott Pilgrim Implicate means the same thing.

[@zeikjt]

I could hear the curb your enthusiasm music playing in my head.

[@gabrote42]

Sadly the fine will be a very small percentage fine. Legislación needs to amp that up

[@GFCOLCQuote]

The entire segment with Alina was incredibly informative and super interesting. I loved how unbiased she was and how you could really see that she didn't simply agree with everything because "big company bad grrr" but rather because... they are shady fuckers doing shady shit. The little segments she pointed out and how damning they were when you look at them in a certain context and everything just really pulled how these guys are probably liable and I really do hope the whole roof collapses on them... even if it has a Master Elite Certification.

[@bashaarzaman2752]

The Audacity of these companies is disgusting.

[@Josuh]

"Audacity" got damn it i miss the old audacity 😔

[@NuclearRaven13]

Describes Audacity quite well too.

[@Fallub]

The problem I see with all of this is: the damage has already been done and seems to be irreversible. Even if the involved parties would have to pay fines or are forced to announce endorsements, WATA is now an elite player in the grading market, Heritage has all the PR to get more auctions and the market of video games seems wildly inflated. I wholeheartedly thank Karl for doing all this and hope this crazy scheme can still be stopped somehow in a way that brings satisfaction to all true collectors.

[@deathstrike]

I'm afraid it won't. The truth is, what Karl has shown in his video is not just confined to games. What Karl is also saying is that this is an epidemic and a cancer that while "barely" being called legal is abusing the law to their own advantage. Spectators of all walks are the very reason that we have these outrageous prices in not only games, but in life in general. Speculators drive prices like oil, energy, politics, and trends whose very existence rides the law like a drunk cowboy riding a donkey. Sure they know it's going to be a difficult ride, and they know they are stupid because people like Karl eventually call them out with facts and well laid out reasoning. But while it's comical, you will have a VERY hard time proving it is illegal. And to add insult to injury, even IF they do get proven guilty in a court of law, they simply pay the often pathetic fine and move on to some other money grab. So in conclusion, all walks of life from the lowest janitor, to the denizens of power ARE effected by these spectators and snake oil salesmen. The only way to stop these truly shady speculators and traders. You simply close your wallet and refuse to play. And with that Karl, I hope you keep making videos like this and showing what the face of greed truly looks like. So that collectors like myself and so many others are not branded the bad guy for the love of our hobby.

[@onikoneko]

a speculative bubble depends on positive press. my hope is the shitstorm Karl's kicking up will pop this bubble early, and also maybe taint the names of all involved enough to stall future attempts by them to create bubbles. I have to wonder if the rare coin bubble would have collapsed sooner if mass online social media were a thing then and there was someone like Karl around.

[@t3tsubo]

I mean fines can be scaled up. How else do you expect a court to punish someone for breaking a law on commerce? Putting them in jail?

[@Xahnel]

Take it from someone who has to deal with appraisals all the time: no. Any damage *at all* to the credibility is basically irreversible.

[@jaredkinneyjr]

@@t3tsubo That is exactly what happened in 2010 to Pfizer. Fined $2.3Billion since they were the ones that were actually, "Too big to fail." since peoples lives literally depend on them. But unfortunately, no one did anything & now people are going to camps if they don't forcibly take their "medicine"? The corruption & evil has only begun & people need to stand up now or our futures are looking very bleak.

[@yoloswaggins2161]

I looked up that Halperin guy on wikipedia, he literally started a scam at 13 years old that netted him at least $100k. You can't make this stuff up.

[@CuShorts]

Reptillians.

[@nooneinparticular3370]

@@CuShorts This.

[@martyfromnebraska1045]

​@@CuShorts Zionists

[@solinvictus2018]

If you think this is incredible, wait till you figure out that the same practices are the basis of the entire modern art economy. Artists like Damien Hirst have shell companies buying their own art to inflate prices, which are all determined by auction sales....

[@mpf1947]

If they believed their own business practices were defensible in court, they would have simply sued instead of stating in a letter that your claims were defamatory.

[@marksmidt8225]

@@letsmakeit110 Tell me you're anti-Semitic without telling me you're anti-Semitic

[@Eli-fj3sc]

@@letsmakeit110 get your antisemitism out of here it's not welcome and it adds absolutely nothing to the conversation. Go back to your conspiracy theory hole and come up with something original.

[@GODDAMNLETMEJOIN]

@@marksmidt8225 I think he told everyone loud and clear

[@thepandrbr]

@@marksmidt8225 just report for hate speech

[@ralcogaming7674]

They also cannot prove his statements were made maliciously, sure if he's wrong its out of ignorance but he's not out to harm their credibility or lives. No matter how you feel about the Rittenhouse trial take note of the media and even politicians defamatory statements and lies throughout the trial when we had correct information the week of the incident that can easily be proven malicious and likely will be. Now take another instance of Billy Mitchell suing for defamation when it's been proven he cheated, by not just youtubers but programmers saying it's impossible he can claim its malicious and possibly even prove it but because it's true it isnt defamation. There are 2 key components to defamation as laid out here 1. Malicious intent, did you knowingly lie simply for the sake of harming ones reputation or public perception of them And 2. Was the information true, if the information given is true then it cannot by the law be defamation.

[@wummeru2069]

LMAO! Just checked Ebay and resellers are already going out of their way to specify that their games were not graded by WATA in their listings.

[@DembaiVT]

Heck yes. Power back to VGA. They deserve the credit.

[@megamob5834]

Most of the collectors I know and retro game stores I frequent now think of WATA as pure cancer and won’t touch their products with a ten foot pole. And that has a lot to do with you Karl. Thank you.

[@hanthonyc]

Wasn't at all expecting an update on this one, I can hardly imagine how it CAN get worse... update: holy shit

[@whamenrespecter7075]

What happened?

[@bbbbbbb51]

@ cool it with the antisemitic remarks

[@alexs7670]

@@bbbbbbb51 I think it might be a false flag to try to connect karl with antisemitism. Just report him.

[@hanthonyc]

@ Yeah, not that funny dude. I don't need this during my holidays too ;)

[@jud6ment]

Imagine if Billy Mitchell started taking part in the schemes of Heritage and Watagames, it would be the most epic Karl Jobst episode, i hope it happens

[@darksoul6482]

WWE should book Karl vs Billy Mitchell an I Quit Match.

[@dmgreenberg]

I’d rather it doesn’t. The last thing Karl needs is to have to endure more frivolous litigation from that jackass. Ditto Toddgers.

[@darwintruong4161]

Crossover episode

[@HugeDongusMan]

The crossover we all deserve lol

[@reunionreunion2386]

You know, in many of the "speedrunner cheating" videos from you and others, one common sentiment I hear echoeched is: "these guys could catch a serial killer if they tried". This legend took it a step further and uncovered a conspiracy. Well done.

[@c0sm1c-d0ll]

I don't know anything about this. Not from the legal, business, or collecting side. But I feel like I didn't even have to know anything going in. Your explanations are always so clear and thorough :)

[@KonEl-BlackZero]

Karl never stopped to be one of us

[@Enderblade312]

This entire video’s message can be summed up as “WATA Games and Heritage Auctions have been in bed together from the very beginning” and despite all of the blatant information pulled from WATA and Heritage themselves, such as who works where, it’s now just a bunch of these people backpedaling to the point where it’s no surprise they are tripping over contradiction after contradiction.

[@Queldonus]

As someone who played Magic the Gathering for a long time, I have a burning hatred for "collectors" that are only interested in the value of what they buy and how much money they can make. I feel they will cause short term gains for whatever realm they target, and great harm in the long term unless kept in check. Thank you for working to expose these people for what they are. They aren't collectors, they are investors or traders, and when they call themselves "collectors" its an insult to anyone actually passionate about gaming.

[@doktorwyvern2883]

Speculators hijacking the "collector" title is one of the worst things to happen to any hobby from MTG to cars.

[@ootdega]

I was recently at a used game store, and I couldn't believe the prices I was seeing for games that I could've bought for pocket change a couple years ago. After watching these videos, now I know exactly what happened. This has affected _all_ used video games, not just sealed collectible retro games. Gaming is no longer affordable to me, no matter the genre or generation.

[@pbailed8007]

Right on!

[@ryanjacobson2508]

@@doktorwyvern2883 Greedy sleazebags and scalpers will invade any market (or "community") once the perceived value of a particular type of good gets high enough. Video game collecting was a niche market in the 90's and 2000's, then aging Millennials started buying lots of old games leading to the meme that video games produced in massive quantities in the late 80's and 90's were somehow "valuable".

[@Volron265]

I've seen enough from Bethesda, Activision-Blizzard, Ubisoft, and EA to know when a guilty party is BS'ing you. And Wata-Heritage is definitely BS'ing us. Glad you're sticking it to them, mate.

[@silentgolden8507]

The FTC must love you doing their work better than they ever could lmao.

[@aarontooth]

FTC too busy trying to give Amazon a hard time because they're like the only non-terrible internet merchant

[@orbusg8451]

"most valuable video game cart in existence" Between the original version and the duck hunt combo cart there's like a hundred million copies of it, but sure whatever.

[@FrostGlader]

I actually have a magazine with sales data on the Mario series from Super Mario Bros and Mario Galaxy 2. SMB hits over 40 Million, it wouldn’t be out of the question for very good condition Boxes to be fairly uncommon.

[@SockyNoob]

It's the same dipshits who sold NESs for $100 despite being common as dirt.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Back in the Mid-90's Baby Boomers looking for an "investment" realized they wasted a lot of money on comic books and trading cards in the 1960's-early 1990's, because these things were produced in such large quantities that they essentially would never gain significant value. I suspect Millennials who paid gobs of money for Nintendo games will eventually be hit by the cold reality that most NES games were produced in such massive quantities that it simply doesn't make sense to expect them to ever gain much value in the long run. WATA and the speculators/scalpers had to resort to doctoring data (e.g. fraud) and market manipulation to cash in on their investments.

[@ignaciogodoy7095]

The game need to be factory seal in his original package, is like an action figure. If the game is open or used it only worth a few bucks.

[@jironamos7650]

@@ignaciogodoy7095 It doesn't change anything, they grade their own games and sell them themselves to inflate the price, thats what grading companies tend to do. And that applies to most of them. It does not matter if a game is graded or not, its still part of thousands of billions of copies. If I put a chunk of plastic around a one-of-a-kind famous painting, would it make it be different? Of course not, that painting will still be valuated as the same price, why? Because theres only one. Same happens with games, since theres a lot of them, and all of those titles are extremely common, all of them are worth dirt cheap.

[@christian5042]

You should make a video showing how bad they are at grading stuff breaking their own rules for employees items over other ones. Or look more into the people who sent in high grade sealed copies of games but don’t get their own copies back, but get lower grade messed up copies returned. It’s happened numerous times to numerous people now. That’s straight out theft

[@dylanc2806]

@@collectibleboys38 good luck... that's some bs

[@soggycastella]

We need a Wata Games/Heritage Auctions/Twin Galaxies crossover. Imagine if Billy Mitchell and Todd Togers were secretly pulling the strings behind this entire thing??

[@rawr51919]

That would be the biggest kek in this entire chain

[@yipyap6161]

Can’t believe Todger was involved in this

[@MrJWTH]

If anyone I would assume Billy since he seems to be the more devious of the two but who knows maybe it’s Mike Kennedy of Coleco Chameleon fame.

[@JackQNielsen]

That would be rich with irony. Unfortunately Billy Mitchell and Todd Rogers are not nearly clever enough to be pulling the strings on anything this lucrative.

[@chrissawyer1484]

I am sort of surprised that Mike WASN'T involved in WATA games.

[@Jonathan2342]

I have a hard time believing that literally the most mass-produced game in the Nintendo Entertainment System's library would ever fetch legitimite 1 million dollar bids. I bet Final Fantasy 1 would be a much more sought-after game than Mario.

[@chrischin_94]

I believe it had to do with the fact that it was sealed a specific way that was only done for pre-release copies that became very hard to find after the game took off in the West

[@jamestaylor3805]

Chris, even if such a rare copy it still makes it one of thousands produced... pricing that above a unique one off medieval manuscript is absolutley insane and inexplicable.

[@kriss1_]

The game itself us pretty much worthless, couple of bucks at a garage sale. The scam is artificially inflating the prices by buying the games themselves and redoing the valuations and making the sensational news. Creating a wholly artificial market trying to lure in as many suckers as possible that want to use the games as investment assets. Kinda like the crazy bitcoin hike a few years back.

[@raptoid2518]

​​@@chrischin_94Even then, they were ridiculously overstating how rare it actually is. For example, it was claimed that it was at the same level as Action Comics #1. It's just a ridiculous falsehood because even the higher end estimates of how many of that comic book are left are below 100 copies still in existence. And of those none even come close to the highest that it can be graded at. IIRC, the highest know copy is only a 9.0. There are none that would be considered "mint condition." It's just blatantly untrue and misleading to act like that Mario cartridge is anywhere near as rare as Action Comics #1.

[@Jeneric81]

It is most certainly for PR. Mario is arguably the most well known video game franchise and SMB is arguably the most well known game. They used these factors to ensure better mainstream attention.

[@ForeverLaxx]

I love that one of their "defenses" is that they consider themselves the "trusted leader" in this market, completely ignoring the fact that all that "trust" has been manufactured by them and their collusion with the auction house in order to make themselves the "leader" by consequence in order to sucker in people outside the scam. Self-awareness: Zero. EDIT: I also love that all these companies getting exposed, not just these frauds, always turn to the "we weren't contacted first" defense. Well, duh, why would an expose on your company's shady and probably illegal actions warrant any statement from you? The only reason you're mad you weren't contacted is because if you were, you'd effectively have advance warning that the cat was out of the bag and would give enough time to dump your assets and start hiding/scrubbing the incriminating evidence. You don't tell the guy, who is already in the process of stealing from you, that you intend to report him to the authorities and that you know his face when you're the only witness. That only gets you deleted.

[@zeikjt]

But Carl did try to contact them beforehand, they probably thought nothing would come of it and ignored him, to their own dismay.

[@ForeverLaxx]

@@zeikjt They didn't exactly ignore him. As stated, the company was sold, so the guys at the top got out before things started getting really hot. That leaves the groundlings who aren't smart enough to see the writing on the wall holding the bag when it comes crashing down. Just like with the Coin bubble, he'll move on to another grift once the money from this one runs dry, if he's still alive that long of course.

[@josephfanning1241]

Collectors: We want more transparency in your grading policies! WATA: What do you mean? We put brand new shrink-wrap on our games, how much more transparent can we get?

[@iddsmedingus]

I get there's all kinds of made up reasons as to why literally the most common NES cart is so bloated in value, but it's hilarious to hear the retro games sellers still wanted the value to inflate that much and thought it was at all appropriate. Sasuga retro game aftermarket.

[@LeCharles07]

Right?! Original copies of "The Great Wave off Kanagawa" aren't even $2 million. SMH

[@DembaiVT]

This! I can't believe how one of the most commonly purchased games for collectors was somehow considered to be rare in any way. Lol because you got a copy of it with your original NES anyone who wanted to collect a copy bought a brand new copy sealed and put it away. I can't even imagine how foolish people have to be to think that that would be rare, especially since the collecting craze was so big in the '80s with anything that you could collect.

[@rwdplz1]

I think the most telling fact is they're picking super popular and common games to value highly, because they're greedy and trying to pick games they can easily find, highly grade, and re-sell at massive profits repeatedly.

[@stephenheffren4324]

I think it's more depressing and insidious than that: They're choosing IPs that are known for being popular. When people who don't play games think of video games, they think of games like Mario, Sonic, Zelda, and others. This scam is trying to prey on people who have no deep interest in video games, or what makes them actually rare (Prototypes, recalled cartridges and CDs, or unpopular games that were never mass released) It's trying to get people who don't know about other types of games to see these popular and older characters and assume that because it's older, it's more rare. It obviously hurts the video gamers who want to play a real SM3, but it’s going to really hurt the older investors who don't know about the industry and assume it's going to be as stable and simple as the comic book industry.

[@ericrutledge4925]

I'm only 10 minutes in, and I can already tell tell this is another masterpiece. Keep up the outstanding work.

[@Zakkarypillow]

2 minutes in and I am hyped as hell to watch this.

[@davidokelly1140]

15 mins in and yes, its a masterpiece

[@TimeBucks]

You should feel really proud

[@Sheikrisvan1991]

Okay

[@mulletman1705]

I do

[@BlountForce]

What are your intentions here with saying this?

[@finderrio]

@@BlountForce they're saying that Karl has made a fantastic piece of journalism, and that he should feel proud.

[@BlountForce]

@@finderrio just making sure!

[@Malcarne360]

Karl's always putting himself out there to bring us these thorough documentations of what will eventually be video game history. Who's the real legend here?

[@timw.5030]

After a google search, the amount of articles about the 1.5 million sell of the n64 Super Mario is staggering!! It scrolls for days, the publicity went parabolic. And the entire time it was never a collector who bought it, most notably someone from WATA or Heritage.

[@lukebytes5366]

I hate how legality is used as an excuse so often with shady practices. The law is supposed to improve society, it's not this obstacle you need to avoid to become successful.

[@jhondoe8495]

Let me introduce you to our global financial system...

[@maikerugo]

Right, just because it's the law doesn't make it right and just because it's not illegal doesn't make it ethical. You see folks go, "Well they shouldn't have violated the law," for some pretty dire scenarios. Then they go, "welp, we can't do anything about them doing something terrible/unfair because it isn't illegal!" When the answer should always be, "then lets change our laws to match basic ethics and better serve people."

[@jr637-1]

When you have to rely on "It's not illegal." as an argument, you're basically admitting that you can't come up with any better argument for why you're doing what you're doing. It's a very subtle way of conceding the argument.

[@3rdEyeWide]

"The letter of the law" is always one step behind "the spirit of the law".

[@rgerber]

Thats actually pretty funny in context of speedrunning, because the goal is to "break" the games overcoming it like an obstacle (rules) to be sucessful. But of course i know what you mean

[@nevanito]

Stay safe out there Karl. In any case, we will always be here to support you in any form possible. Love your content and appreciate all of your effort, not only on this situation, but throughout gaming and speedrunning as a whole. If there is an Absolute Legend, that would be no other than you.

[@desertwhaler]

I keep seeing news articles about pennies and other "rare" coins selling for stupid amounts now. I think the coin bubble is coming back too.

[@zerodollarbird]

We're about to see bubbles in EVERYTHING. The entire economy is just ten million grifts in a trenchcoat now.

[@MoneyManHolmes]

The whole grading industry has gone tosh it. China can copy rare coins down to microscopic identifying die scratches. Scammers can cut 1/64 inch off the edges of cards to make them perfect 10s. At this point, I’m surprised rich people even still participate.

[@bbbbbbb51]

@@zerodollarbird happened a long time ago when we shifted from focusing on producing goods to perceived value. Large swaths of the economy became nothing more than facades.

[@speedyd8150]

"shill bidding" perfectly explains me and my friends in mid 2000s eBay days.

[@bpseal]

lol

[@blodguizer]

I had a few times where I bid on an obscure item on Ebay with a low opening bid and no watchers at all and a day after I bid someone else outbids me. My fist instinct is that the seller is bidding on his own item to raise the price and I always let that item go or find another seller.

[@hanthonyc]

"Karl is always targeted by the weirdest people." -Charlie

[@tiffyw92]

Only liars would try to hide when faced with the investigative prowess of Karl Jobst.

[@shreyanshsingh379]

If Jesus said that, then he is right

[@tiffyw92]

@ Is this some sort of meme I've been missing out on or is there something else I should know about Karl?

[@fenrirwulf9266]

@@tiffyw92 Nah, the guy you're responding to got whacked in another comment thread and deleted for trying to troll with obvious antisemitic comments like this.

[@tiffyw92]

@@fenrirwulf9266 Ah, thanks. Thought it sounded weird... Wait a second. Is this what Charlie meant? Dang, I've been got! Lol

[@Guelph35]

Since the whole attraction is that the game is sealed in box, what’s to stop people from making fakes and getting them graded/sold? The people buying them aren’t opening them, so once it’s sealed in the case with a grade, how do you know there’s actually a game inside the box?

[@shanez1215]

Just realized the Jimmy Neutron movie predicted the future with the ultralord gag

[@mbeatz17]

@@shanez1215 they do have x-rays and light examinations for art and other objects. Though I doubt these schmucks put that effort in.

[@willnox1]

@@mbeatz17 No fucking way they do. Even some of there grading is questionable...like full tears in plastic wrap still getting a 9.4 lol

[@mbeatz17]

@@willnox1 this is why I have no problem with emulators or flash cartridges. The market is too fucking wild and I hope this bubble bursts soon. Sealed games used to be a point of pride not an art piece u plan on flipping in a few years.

[@iShionSinX]

​@@mbeatz17 I agree with you but Im all out for emulator for a different reason: some companies (especially Nintendo) just REFUSES to sell us their damn games. And on a different note but kinda related, even new releases that are widely avaiable on market are a pain to get around here (Brazil, we end up paying more than double the market price even for digital copies).

[@ethanpederson]

Nothing makes my day like being called an absolute legend :)

[@DustoVonSusto]

So true

[@heavyswomern]

nice pfp gojira is such an great band

[@SexyPug]

If everyone's a legend, nobody is

[@Cuzjudd]

Good day you absolute legend

[@waydweaver7596]

Gojira!! Hell yeah!

[@CelticGuardian7]

At first I kept hearing "Pawn Stars" as "Porn Stars" and was incredibly confused. Amazing work with the video! This is fascinating to learn about, especially since I have such little knowledge in these fields.

[@xslingy]

If you open closed captions in that part, it says "porn stars" as well. Surprised in 10 months you were the only one to comment this.

[@CelticGuardian7]

@@xslingy Hah, go figure! I didn't watch it with closed captions. That's hilarious~

[@molotera8789]

Id rather watch porn stars than Pawn stars

[@CelticGuardian7]

@@molotera8789 To be fair, that's probably not a high bar to cross. XD

[@tymaxi]

Was looking for this comment hahaha

[@hudson2228]

I love when they tried to compare Super Mario Bros to action comics 1, as if an original action comics 1 isn’t extraordinarily rare and super mario isn’t the best selling NES game of all time. That comparison right there tells you everything.

[@barry1902]

Super mario bros sold 40 million copies xD

[@swagar]

Hell, even sealed copies of SMB1 aren't rare

[@unstoppableExodia]

Exactly and without the publication of population reports it was easier to peddle the fiction that the conditional rarity of sealed copies of SMB was through the roof. Without clear evidence to the contrary it can be easy for some to assume that “super Mario bros is such a fun game to play that extremely few people could resist the temptation to rip of the seal and put it in their console and play it. So yeah a sealed copy must be worth over a million bucks”

[@Dn-bc1zi]

No one is saying smb is action comics #1, they are saying the gloss sticker hangtab variant of smb still sealed is like action comics #1, there is still only 1 that is known, there are 0 matte stickers still sealed and only 27 cib copies have been graded, these details matter to collectors

[@Dn-bc1zi]

And there are only 18 hangtab smbs still shrinkwrapped that have been graded, these are not common

[@Michael-dj6pd]

Jobst you're brave for exposing so many frauds! And with the lawsuits being thrown at you left and right, not able to slow you down! Big ups! Also your editing is some of the best on youtube.

[@notgonnahappen7899]

The act of collusion between the two companies is what makes it illegal. It's a criminal conspiracy and even RICO could apply in this case.

[@IlkoBirov]

Another fantastic video! Just to mention: something similar happened in the Pokemon world a couple of years back - again Pawn Stars were used as a sort of launch pad for the ruse.

[@Badman2123]

Karl, this is such a sad tale of greed and selfishness. It’s good to see people that stand for truth. Thanks for the new info! Edit: it’s so sad Nintendo age is gone. What can he say about deleting the best database on games!? These POS, It would almost be like if discogs disappeared. If only Nintendoage set up a marketplace so these things would of stayed in the public.

[@youonlylivenever]

The fact that these people think SMB and LOZ are the holy grail of game collecting just goes to show they have no idea what they are talking about. If anything, NWC 1991 gold or grey carts are the holy grail.

[@bananonymouslastname5693]

There are games like the European version of Ultimate 11 for Neo Geo AES that are fare more rare than even those. The rabbit hole of video game rarity is bonkers, and people have to be nuts to think that there aren't still sealed cases of games like Super Mario 64 floating around out there. Games that sold millions of copies are definitely still in backrooms amd warehouses out there, as well as private collections. Something like Eli's Ladder on Atari 2600 is way more difficult to find; it's just not popular and iconic, and is far less marketable. That's why they make the Superman/Mario comparison, trying to make that case to sell people on the "value." It'd be hilarious to see people fawn over Emerson Arcadia 2001 games the way they are these overblown "rarities."

[@Anon-lu6ct]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking they have no knowledge at all about games

[@yeeoof1995]

@@Anon-lu6ct I bet they don't even know about either Mario 2.

[@calamorta]

That's part of the plan. Recognizable franchises attract more people

[@kailomonkey]

Exactly! Those games sold in the millions (I expect) and there's always some stock somewhere of untouched games when we're talking chances in a million!

[@krazycharlie]

When even Yuji Naka asks if It's a scam, that's all you need to know to realize it is.

[@AddyLovestar]

He made a game with design people disliked, he didn't scam anyone. No one was cheated out of their money. Buying a product and not finding it to your liking is not a scam

[@HvnWasHere]

@@AddyLovestar I think the point was "the main game developer does not even believe this price is correct, so why would they" not anything to do with Balan

[@thursfys_]

@@AddyLovestar how did you misread what they said so bad that you thought they were accusing yuji naka of scamming people??

[@OLBarbok]

Karl: *makes a whole detailed video exposing company* Company: "No you"

[@vonBelfry]

"I'm a lawyer licensed-" Me: TO KILL!? "... In California..." Me: Oh.

[@Blutwind]

Getting a California license is afaik asmighty if not mightier then a license to kill though

[@carlroy]

All lawyer are licensed to kill your wallet, certainly the divorce speciist!

[@R3SerialPro]

The more I think about it the more it bugs me. I went to this year's TooManyGames convention in Philadelphia with my brother. I has a fun time there. The thing that even now bugs me is that most of the vendors in the merch hall were selling WATA graded games. I feel like WATA's presence at TMG is a complete antithesis and slap in the face to the spirit of the convention.

[@HandheldGamer1991]

Lol grading things notbfor yourself but to put on sale especially at conventions would piss me off to a point i might punch the fucker behind the table.

[@deadbeef33]

Karl you are a brave man. I think you are well aware that Wata and Heritage are probably going to try to sue you to keep your mouth shut, just like Billy Mitchell is doing. Only unlike Billy, these guys will actually have lots of money behind them, and will not be pushovers. Thanks for putting up the good fight for us. Stay strong.

[@collectibleboys38]

Do u work for wata 🤣

[@medea27]

Except unlike Bitchell, WATA & Heritage have _a lot_ to lose by taking any legal action... Mitchell is just swindling the retro gaming community, which is reprehensible but not on the federal govt's radar. WATA & Heritage are breaking numerous regulations & laws around their business practices & market manipulation which could land them in court fighting the FTC. And the FTC _love_ making examples of people in new markets like collectables... I would imagine that if they have engaged any, their lawyers are telling them to shut up, don't engage with Karl & hope it blows over.

[@evanwheeler7687]

The best defense for Karl in a slander suit is the truth. Wata and Heritage have a lot to lose by suing him and risk being completely exposed if they bring legal action. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

[@MarkFillmore]

I sure hope the government is looking into this and staying silent to not affect an ongoing investigation. Any wrongdoing should have consequences.