The Scene That Explains Why Iron Man Worked and Man of Steel Didn’t - SCENE FIGHTS!

Iron Man and Man of Steel each kicked off a superhero cinematic universe. While the Marvel Cinematic Universe has become the most financially successful film franchise of all time, the DCEU is mostly known for controversy and dividing its fandom. There's a reason for that. In these first movies, there's a scene that shows why one of these films is a masterpiece, and the other one is Man of Steel.
If you're new, Subscribe! → bit.ly/subscribe-screencrush
Go here → screencrush.com/
Like us → / screencrush
Follow us → / screencrushnews
Get our newsletter → screencrush.com/newsletter/
Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Kevin Lin
#IronMan #ManOfSteel #IronManVsManOfSteel #Marvel #DCEU #Superman #ScreenCrush #VideoEssay

[@ScreenCrush]

Which movie is better?

[@JCBmaster-so6vw]

Do you have to ask?

[@lokeshr8580]

IronMan. Obviously.

[@jerimiehall]

I'm the biggest Supes fan out there and there is no doubt at all. Ironman wins by a landslide!

[@mightbearer]

@@jerimiehall agreed. I reeeeaaallly wanted this to work, but I had many problems with it. Iron Man without a doubt!

[@ayoubelbidawi]

Man of steel

[@stahppls2293]

And years layer, Tony being stuck with a stranger again, he takes the initiative. He gets to know Nebula and helps her learn to have fun and in turn she becomes a better person for his small kindess

[@halomanXP]

A baton pass

[@raydunakin]

That was a brilliant scene. He also was giving her the kind of father-daughter relationship that she'd never had with Thanos. And at the same time he was being the kind of father (in this case a father figure) he always wanted his own dad to be -- patient, caring, and supportive.

[@ScreenCrush]

Aw what a nice observation

[@karsonmillion9586]

I never thought of it that way, but you're right!

[@Fendo5k]

Full circle!

[@hyanbatista3281]

John: you need to choose your destiny son Clark: I wanna help people John: choose again

[@BlankPicketSign]

FUCKING RIGHT?!?!?! What a massive dick!

[@elielizgnocchi9419]

Wrong choice! lmao

[@patricklafontaine5969]

Yeah that was a poor script.

[@robsolf]

Then they one-upped it in the sequel with John's "Don't help people, cuz you might unwittingly hurt someone else" parable. Even Ghost Kent is a dick.

[@davidluna7]

@@robsolf what are you talking about. the parable was about being selfish vs selfless. he could either focus on himself ( like the john saving the kent farm) and watch as others suffer as a result. or he could have taken the hit himself and others would have been safe. john goes on to say that being selfish haunted him for the rest of his life, and the nightmares only stopped when he met martha. i swear most people who complain never even watched the movie

[@gingerkays7362]

Remember that MARVEL WAS ABLE TO BUILD THIS FRANCHISE IN A CAVE!!! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS.

[@bigmacchasi]

DC: We'll sorry am not MARVEL

[@themadtitan7603]

The comparsion is more apt when you realize they had barely put together a script and relied on a $525 million loan from a bank to make Ironman.

[@gingerkays7362]

@@themadtitan7603 more money was put into the dumpster fire film “The last airbender” than into Iron Man 1

[@somegeekguy]

@@gingerkays7362 that’s pretty insane lol

[@gingerkays7362]

@@somegeekguy I get emails from a raccoon, nothing sounds crazy to me anymore

[@thedragonknight3600]

I was literally watching Iron Man over recently, and when I got to Jenson’s death and him saying “Don’t waste your life” I couldn’t but think to myself “He didn’t.”

[@rayhanmustakim7073]

Its Yinsen not Jenson

[@husainbijori]

@@rayhanmustakim7073 exactly 😂😂

[@pyrokatarina]

this hits different after the events of endgame😭

[@niquecael123]

That made me tear up 😢

[@exhaustguy]

@@pyrokatarina And he had more than paid it back in New York in Avengers already. Our largest city nuked by its own government otherwise. Of course Tony never adequately answered for Sokovia. I suspect his estate will be for some time.

[@keisercesar]

I was fortunate enough to meet the actor who plays Yinsen, he stopped by this restaurant where I was working. Happy to say he's as humble as the character he played in Iron Man :)

[@tuffn00gies]

That's awesome.

[@velshyem2546]

Really!!

[@furious-vengeance]

I remember him in Broken Arrow playing a terrorist henchmen funnily enough.. Shaun Toub.

[@striplingwarrior6309]

That's amazing. I wonder what he ordered?

[@whatisahandle69]

I saw RDJ I wish

[@CptPhilippnes]

If they really loved that dog, they wouldn't forget it in the first place.

[@patrickbateman1132]

underrated comment

[@guneruribarren2953]

so true, how the fuck do u forget ur dog when a tornado comes?

[@guneruribarren2953]

i mean, dogs are faster. let him free and he will run safely before you do while u save whoever the fuck u want xD

[@RedRoseSeptember22]

Right because you totally think clearly while panicking *rolls eyes*

[@lorastra6975]

@@RedRoseSeptember22 They are LITERALLY STANDING RIGHT BESIDE THE TRUCK. Clark has super hearing yet can't hear his dog...let that sink in for a moment. What does he have to fear from a tornado?

[@aceofflames4572]

*is talking about similarities between Iron Man and Man of Steel* *doesn’t mention they both have metal themed names*

[@deadeye6806]

Lol

[@140natsu]

Steel man and man of iron

[@That_Awesome_Guy1]

@@140natsu loll

[@jumperflake7145]

@@140natsu both are metal..!! Lol

[@luminatron]

Steel is just iron but burnt

[@marca8368]

"Superman must decide which of his two Robin Hood dads to listen to. Space dad says 'show up your powers to inspire humanity', farmer dad says 'hide your powers and let innocent people die'. Watch Superman honor them both as he show up his powers and let innocent people die" - Honest Trailer

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

Lol 😂🤣

[@Anshumansahu23]

What the fuck is wrong with you huh...and when did Jonathan told Clark to let people die

[@laerza]

well he did say it might have been better to let his friends die, and told him not to save him

[@seulgi1211]

@@Anshumansahu23 did you even fcking listen to the video? Or the movie?

[@seulgi1211]

@@Anshumansahu23 tf is wrong with you

[@drewjenkins2318]

*ScreenCrush COMPLETELY misunderstood Man of Steel!* Clark let him die because he knew about the life insurance policy.

[@ashcast1480]

😂This is the only Good comment here

[@Kevinardo]

LOL

[@jaimehargrove1212]

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!! CHA-CHING!! LOL

[@jackdurden466]

Well said! But wait, wouldn’t that cash flow enabled Martha to pay off the ranch? And not later cause Bruce Wayne to have to buy the bank so they can have it back? Doesn’t matter, I’m overthinking this. You’re right🤑

[@andrewbaker3516]

@@jackdurden466 Not if it was blown on hookers and coke

[@jimboa20]

My favorite thing about Iron Man versus the DC movies? In the DC movies, there's this constant, non-stop agonizing about people finding out your secret identity. It gets so tiresome. Finally, along comes Iron Man. Tony Stark has a press conference and outs himself almost immediately on national television. In fact, with the exception of Spider-Man, nobody in the MCU really bothers with or cares about the "secret identity" thing.

[@javieraguirre9135]

Except if you are the flash or someone with really crazy abilities you might as well end up getting recorded by a smartphone or a camera in the streets out there this days so why bother that much

[@marylincoln6672]

Spider-Man....

[@pp-vf8ls]

you do know that none of the MCU villain never do harm directly that ties to the heroes right? and you will know that in comics, Spiderman lost it all by revealing his secret identity while in DC, you have to be prepared if your enemy knows your secret

[@marylincoln6672]

pai pai true. And while this really only happens once. Remember what happened to pepper in iron man three? Really the entire reason why most of them don’t have secret identities it because they are tied to SHEILD. After SHIELD fell tony took up the initiative and did better things with it. After shield fell they were no longer protected by the government and what’s his name attacked pepper and tony in iron man two that awful, awful movie.and we were talking about the movies. Not the comics. When you talk about the MCU those are two separate things.

[@marylincoln6672]

Well, we are talking about the movies right? I kinda assumed cause the vid is. And can you explain how Clark Kent isn’t recognized as iron man every 5 seconds?

[@ssfbob456]

I'd definitely say the scene with Tony tightening a bolt on his gauntlet while watching what his company's weapons are doing on TV followed by his blasting of the windows, all with no dialog, is far better than Clark's chat with some priest.

[@Nempo13]

You can see the outrage at what people are doing with those weapons, that his name is on that, and that he is determined to end it all.

[@3Rayfire]

You can feel him getting more and more pissed off. Another thing that you might not catch on the first watching is the report that Tony is watching is events in the town of Gulmira, Yinsen's hometown. There was no part of him that wasn't incensed.

[@luminatron]

@@3Rayfire Yinsen-sed

[@3Rayfire]

@@luminatron Of all the corny.....you know what? I'll allow it! That's too good to ignore. Tony was Yinsen-sed.

[@chirayu8801]

This where you marvel fans cross the line.

[@mzpudin9446]

John Wick: I'd save the dog no matter what

[@dawnochs2018]

And you win the internet!

[@jimbrewer9431]

John Wick would also find a way to murder a tornado with white hot lead too

[@marktime7692]

*shoots the tornado.

[@brnleekarza8809]

*the tornado fuckin dies*

[@nosyneighbor4408]

@@jimbrewer9431 or with a f*cking pencil

[@TheEqualizer-iw1bz]

Script Writer: “And Clark watches his father die.” Studio Exec: “But doesn’t Superman have Super Speed to save his father without people seeing?” Script Writer: “Whoops.” Studio Exec: “Whoopsie.”

[@aravindmuthu95]

PitchMeetingsAreTight!!!

[@billyrusso9170]

But his father put his hand up signaling for Clark to not because he didn't think the world was ready to see Clark's powers

[@optillian4182]

@@billyrusso9170 Was there anyone around that could see it?

[@kobaye2111]

@@optillian4182 a bunch of people

[@billyrusso9170]

@@optillian4182 yes just watch the dam clip yourself there was people

[@Love2Sax]

You nailed it - I never got why Pa's death didn't really hit me while Yinsen's death gets me every time. Your explanation nails why that happens, at least to me. Thanks for articulating this so well.

[@erentheca]

He didn't nail anything. He completely misinterpreted the scenes in Man of Steel, likely by choice.

[@VMpastore]

Jarl Knudsen explain how he misinterpreted his own feelings towards the scene.

[@hungrychad]

@@erentheca If you're gonna go on the offense and say he misinterpreted, better back it up with your explanation on why, hopefully based by facts.

[@erentheca]

@@hungrychad I did. Look for my comment under the video itself.

[@Brkncntrllr]

@@erentheca We're not about to search through 1222 comments for yours. If you want to state a claim then bring your points along with it.

[@vvgirl6173]

I read that the meaning behind Iron Man is Legacy. What legacy would Tony Stark want to leave on the world when he is no longer around? Weapons of mass destruction? Or hope for a generation of heroes? He left with more than we deserve.

[@exhaustguy]

Also left a superweapon to a high schooler. I am not sure Tony's legacy is completely bright.

[@taelim6599]

@@exhaustguy Yeah, he should have left it to someone like Pepper or Rhodey. Hell, even if it HAD to go to Peter, the least he could have done was let Pepper or Rhodey hold onto it until Peter was actually ready to take on such responsibility

[@deathsyth8888]

When Yinsen died, I was holding back tears. When Pa Kent died, I felt nothing. Just goes to show you how resounding one character's passing was to the audience. One was set up and earned while the other was pointless.

[@ecliptorcalrissian5014]

And fast forward a few years, and we were holding back tears in Infinity War for everyone who got dusted, but felt nothing at Superman's death in BVS.

[@kirbyppg]

The point of the scene wasn't supposed to make you cry but ok. It was supposed to show how John was so hellbent on the idea that the world wasn't ready to see what Clark can do that he was willing to sacrifice himself to protect his son. He was protecting Clark from the burden of being a god like being on Earth, to be subject to such controversy and being treated as something he's not. He's just a man who wants to do good with the power to do so, but he's treated like god and the Devil. If you didn't get the scene you can just say it.

[@sliverspoon195]

@@kirbyppg john when clark saved the bus said that he should've just let them die, selfish and delusional thoughts being imbeded into superman's mind is not superman, superman saves who need saving,he dosent care about the media, he does what he thinks is right

[@kirbyppg]

@@sliverspoon195 DID YOU SPEED WATCH THE SCENE??? What actually happened in the scene was John was reminding Clark about the consequences of using his powers (the film makes it a point that there’s always consequences to when he uses them). When Clark asks if he should’ve let those kids die in the bus, Jonathan couldn’t answer the question. I know you’re confused because after the pause he said “maybe”, but that wasn’t his answer to Clark’s question. He changed the topic and said “Maybe there’s more at stake here than just our lives Clark and the lives of those around us.” It’s to show us that there are grey areas and contradictions to Jonathan’s teachings of keeping his powers a secret, where Jonathan knows that both answers are bad answers (whether he should’ve saved the kids or let them die).

[@kirbyppg]

@@sliverspoon195 And that’s also the point, Superman, despite his teachings, always does what’s right, but always faces consequences and has to hide whenever he uses them until he has to step into the role of Superman. The Oil rig, the bus, the diner, saving Lois the first time, he did what he believed was right but had to run immediately. If you didn’t get the film you can just say that.

[@ecliptorcalrissian5014]

I hope Henry Cavill comes back. None of the problems with these movies were his fault and he really is a good actor. I want to see his Superman written by writers who know how to Superman.

[@eldersprig]

and the mustash? i think that was his fault

[@rolandotorres1682]

@@eldersprig no, he was forced to keep the mustache. not his fault.

[@renemolen8927]

I think whomever wrote this movie knows how to Superman... It's fans that want ironman's template in every hero move the real problem

[@ecliptorcalrissian5014]

@@rolandotorres1682 You know, they really should've just kept the facial hair in Justice League. It's not like Clark had the opportunity to shave while pretty much dead, so it'd have grown back.

[@Toastcat890]

I just wanted it rebooted with a better writer.

[@scottyp1722]

The death of Jonathan Kent in the Christopher Reeve movie was so powerful. Clark had just got done talking about how great of a football player he could be and Pa Kent tells him: Yes you could, but your powers are meant for something great and I don't think that purpose is making touchdowns. The he dies of a heart attack. At the funeral Clark laments to Ma Kent that his powers were useless. This scene creates Superman. He learns humility and is inspired to become something great.

[@beayn]

When I saw that movie as a kid, that scene hit me hard, I didn't really have any idea that people could just drop dead suddenly, and I remember asking many questions and thinking about it for days after.

[@will_sketch]

Exactly. That's what Snyder tried to recreate and failed miserably. I didn't really care about the new Jonathan Kent because he wasn't likeable. He didn't inspire Clark, he held him back.

[@tiffprendergast]

ScottyP yup

[@tiffprendergast]

Will _ yup

[@benrussell-gough1201]

@@will_sketch Zach Snyder can't write likeable characters; like his inspiration, Frank Miller, he believes that all people are essentially terrible, selfish and frightened animals waiting for an excuse to go berserk on anyone luckless enough to be around them. None of the characters for whom he had a leading role in creating for the DCEU were likeable and that is one of the things that ruined the entire franchise. The MCU had flawed characters, yes. Tony Stark's narcissism, Steve Rogers's unquestioning obedience of authority and Bruce Banner's self-hatred to just give some examples. What the MCU did right was to give us the story of them confronting and ultimately transcending this through adversity rather than just having a group of deeply flawed individuals creating mayhem because of their flaws, which was the closest the DCEU ever managed.

[@stueymorris]

It's easy to see why in Reeve's Superman his Dad has a heart attack, it's something beyond his control and puts him on an emotional and moral trojectory and builds that character whereas with Lois passing in that accident he blames himself and that as a purist he can't forgive which again strengths his character.

[@feverdream6142]

A great way to show that no matter how powerful you are, you can’t save everyone and that’s a huge gut punch

[@Yashone]

But in man of Steel he has the power to save his dad but chose not to because he can't reveal his "identity" which is stupid.

[@dowdenr]

Finale of Endgame should have been Tony and Yinsen in the Soul World :(

[@tgapcharlie]

There's actually a deleted scene with Tony and an adult Morgan Stark in the Soul World.

[@lizzie8246]

But it was deleted because it doesn’t make sense for Morgan to be there. Soul World is a place where people who have been sacrificed for the Soul stone go to. That’s why Thanos, who snapped with the infinity stones, saw Gamora, who was sacrificed for the stone. Morgan being there wouldn’t have made sense because she wasn’t sacrificed, nor was Yinsen. The directors took it out on purpose because it would confuse everyone.

[@SingTingz31]

@@tgapcharlie yeah, and its horrible. Very glad they took that out. I always thought there should have been a final scene with him and Natasha to parallel the Thanos and Gamora scene.

[@rejectedcopy4733]

Honestly? Yeah, Tony deserved that much I feel

[@user-cf4su3uv7f]

YESSSS

[@iycephoenixx4249]

The mcu was just thought out so much more

[@Skye3979_]

Yeah, especially when you think about the second movie of the DCEU was Batman Vs. Superman. That's like if the MCU jumped straight from Iron Man to Civil War. It doesn't make sense.

[@VladZheleznyak]

@Tasaduq Shah The fact you don't see just how similar the two movies' plots and themes are is just a testament to how poorly presented BvS really was. Check out the source material. the conflict between the two in BvS is nearly identical to the conflict in Civil War.

[@losisd3ad]

@Tasaduq Shah they are two superheroes, not only fighting, but fighting for similar ideologies. The only difference is how those ideology forces came to be, but like the original comment said, it was much better to develop the characters before going into civil war, rather than DC slingshotting with this BvS. It really doesn't matter if one copied the other or not, the fact is, MCU was able to handle this character and ideology conflict much better than the DCU, because of the way it approached things. I don't necessarily have a preference on the comics, or superheroes themselves, but the MCU has been definitely a way more well thought out series of movies. Even if their approaches were slightly different, like I said, it doesn't matter if one's a copy or not. The bus face the same ideology conflict, and the MCU was able to pull it off a lot better because of the way they were able to build the characters beforehand. DC rushed it. I don't know how you can argue that

[@TheSaxAppeal]

@Tasaduq Shah what matters is the vision. The vision for an expanded universe was not in place for Supes. It was in place for Iron Man. Script or not, that's undeniable

[@glutentaco]

Yeah, but I'm still shaking my head about how the only reason they beat Thanos was because of the mouse in Ant-Man's van in the storage unit.... Now that was thought out!

[@vatoloco1528]

"So you are a man who has everything, and nothing." Wise man Yensin

[@Gamesmarts194]

The way Iron Man did it felt immersive, deep, and emotional. You could almost hear Tony’s anger when he hears Yinsen’s final words. You can SEE it. It YOU feel it. Man of Steel... feels like a movie that you’re watching and not much else. Everything feels overdramatized and played out, and- at least to me, it REALLY breaks the immersion.

[@baguetten8004]

Just like any other snyder movie out there. He's a horrible director

[@motherfuckingenterprises7436]

@@baguetten8004 Writer. He's fantastic in the stylish aspect.

[@baguetten8004]

@@motherfuckingenterprises7436 Tarantino is fantastic in his style. Snyder is just horrible.

[@ridosaputra5273]

@@baguetten8004 yourself is horrible

[@kjbeast677]

The endless prophecy dialog and over-the-top Jesus symbolism in Man of Steel felt so forced and was just honestly off putting

[@MrStefanops]

I think the biggest difference between the movies is that Iron Man is character driven while Man of Steel is simply jumping from one action scene to the next. This can be seen in beginning of each movie. When Iron Man stars all we see Tony hanging out with some soldiers, this is done to establish his character, how he talks, behaves, interacts with people. After the attack on the military Jeep we get a flash back of exposition but it all done to further establish Tony’s character. The rest of the movie focuses on Tony becoming a hero. On the other hand, Man of Steel starts on kypton in which we get no development for Clark, then the movie jumps to him on a ship where we already see him trying to save people. Iron Man focuses on the “hero” behind the super hero, while Man of Steel seems to only care about showing what makes Clark “Super” but not what makes him a hero.

[@karishmaanaik]

This is sooooo perfectly put. 😍👌🏼 I couldn't agree more.

[@Benkenobi8118]

which is really frustrating because there is plenty about the making of Superman out there. Moreso than with Stark.

[@Funknwanker]

How is MoS not character driven? After the first 20 minutes with the destruction of Krypton the film spends the next hour exploring Clarks current journey of discovering who he is and why he is on Earth and flash backs of his childhood showing his experiences that shaped who he is. Not to mention through exposition from Lois she talks about how she is following a trail of a mystery person saving or standing up for people. He even is willing to give himself over no questions asked when Zod came to Earth. That sound pretty heroic to me. Tony spent most of the movie building suits and doing nothing heroic during that time and almost causes a car accident on hist first test flight. He is wreckless with his testing and his actions as well putting military personel in danger and almost gets one killed in his actions taken with the Mark 3 armor which wouldn't have happened if he was guilted into it. He puts Pepper in danger by sending her to his office to obtain Obadiahs secret files, which makes no sense, why would the person who wants to kill the owner of the company put all of that information on the company server? I love both Iron-Man and MoS and have watched both many many times but people overlook the flaws in the one but point out all the ones for the other. Tony did the same thing as clark when he confronted Stane, Tony flies right into Stane knocking them both through a tractor trailer and into traffic. Tony really does not become a hero untill Endgame when he sacrifices himself to save people rather than cleaning up the messes that he caused.

[@noscticorinmooosom4643]

@@Funknwanker come on, just leave them kids watch MCU... they need to grow enough to understand MoS and Zack's Visionary...

[@exhaustguy]

For the next iteration of Superman and Batman, can we bypass both the Kryptonian stuff and the Thomas/Martha murder scene. I was glad in the latest iteration of Spider-Man we didn't get Uncle Ben dying again.

[@gercabz]

Talking about letting a dog intentionally die? John Wick wont be happy hearing that.

[@hyanbatista3281]

"John saved his 'stupid' dog" oh man John Wick is coming for him. God may bless John Wick!

[@patricklafontaine5969]

Hell I would save my dog above most people .

[@eddygtube]

Also seeing how that tornado is blowing everything in sight except John makes the whole scene look artificial. The tornado is even lifting cars but John just stands there until the tornado absorbs him.

[@mr.knightthedetective7435]

Yeah, Zack Snyder is all about those visuals and doesn't really care about physics...

[@djtoona]

What if a nasty flying rake debris had ripped John to shreds and splintered his ribs into hundreds of tiny pointed missiles of bone which were then thrown by the tornado winds into the crowd, killing all (except, of course the MoS)? Just an idle thought

[@ethanwestfall7421]

@@djtoona Except physics would make the bones fly around and into the tornado, not toward the people

[@djtoona]

1. Obviously the entire funnel and dangerous ground winds would be the transportation mechanism to direct Pa Kent's Deadly Remains into the onlookers 2. THAT'S what you find implausible?

[@jio5680]

YESSSSSS

[@hw7738]

I could’ve accepted the message behind that really crucial Tornado scene, if not for the established demonstrations by Ma and Pa Kent as Gatekeepers rather than Nurturers. They could and should have been the staunch, inspiring cornerstones for every positive, proactive intuition Clark ever exhibited. Instead, platitudes about humanity’s fragile ignorance and instructions to suppress his true nature. No real preparation, just words about self-preservation. No encouraging moments of cultivation or guidance to fulfill his actual superhuman capacity, not even to covertly hone his developing powers. They became Kal-El’s only examples of humanity growing up, which, unfortunately, were dismally appropriate to the overall tone.

[@Willowy13]

Exactly. There is one episode of Smallville in an alternate reality. Clark was found by the Luthors and he turns completely different. The main reason for Clark to have good moral values and become Superman was how he was raised by the Kents. MoS wrecked it to give us the equivalent of school kids nowadays. They self-learn things with minimal inpit of people that should help guide them towards a good learning experience.

[@sociopath7541]

@@Willowy13 There is nothing wrong with par kent's teachings lmao. You just hate the movie for no reason at all.

[@jtrimble18]

It's really a shame because Henry Cavill is SO good, and he played it so well with what he was given. All of the actors fit their roles, honestly really well. They just need better writers.

[@nokturn882]

Except for Lois Lane.

[@khvostov7g-0x17]

You don’t get better writers than David S Goyer

[@WindedLane]

@@khvostov7g-0x17 For writing Superman, yeah, you do.

[@khvostov7g-0x17]

@@WindedLane Probably. But who?

[@WindedLane]

@@khvostov7g-0x17 The guys who did the Justice League cartoon did a pretty good job, and the Christopher Reeve Superman movies written by Mario Puzo (yep, the guy who wrote The Godfather) were both good. So it's not like it's rare to find the right writer - the producer just needs to actually understand the source material so something actually good gets made.

[@Atljeepboy]

the scene where Jonathan Kent tells Clark that he should have let his classmates die is the scene that threw me for a loop. In the comics he would NEVER say that.

[@corvus1970]

Indeed. Its a morally reprehensible notion, and that's the moment that threw me right out of the film. As far as I'm concerned, it never really recovers from that.

[@TheBatman135]

He never said that though? He said maybe, meaning he didn't have the right answer. And in the comics, he has wanted clark to hide his powers too before

[@Mr9mann]

@@TheBatman135 At least someone gets it. From what I see MoS always draws some of the most severe criticism for things that aren't even there.

[@misspriss2482]

@@TheBatman135 Yes, but to even suggest it? That just - no. What a horrible thing to tell a child.

[@blaze3976]

He said "Maybe". He didn't have the answer. Gosh

[@oneman9121]

The biggest issue is the fact that Superman is Superman, not due to his powers, but because of his parents Jonathan & Martha Kent. Without their good natured influence, he'd literally be Homelander from the Boys. Homelander was raised in a lab, without the guidance of Clark's parents. Nobody taught him to be a good man, no one taught him right from wrong, no one showered him with the love a child needed. The TV series Smallville explored this into much more detail, but point is that his parents are crucial to the origins of Superman. You mess that up, you're not getting Superman. You're stuck with Homelander.

[@manofvalor4437]

Absolutely... Creator of video misunderstood and this comparison doesn't make sense any more.. iron man has a normal showdown of life but superman didn't... One is marvel and other is DC... Why people mess it up both.... This is inducing all marvel fanboys to hate superman..

[@djolds1]

Yes. But Clark standing by as his father dies in MoS is not a Clark that can become a Superman. Some of the analysis in this video might be off, but the main theme is correct - that is the moment MoS goes sideways and fails. That is why IM1 rises, and MoS falls. Jonathan Kent has to die a part of Superman's maturation, but MoS fouled the job.

[@maxpawa9282]

@@djolds1 Clark had to learn that he can't save everyone! even it's father.

[@djolds1]

@@maxpawa9282 No. In MoS the scenario was that Clark WOULDN'T save his father. It was a conscious choice. And that is where the movie goes sideways and stupid. That isn't Superman.

[@maxpawa9282]

@@djolds1 The dad clearly told him Not to act and clark LISTEN to his dad! like a good kid would do! It has nothing to be superman.

[@j.francisward1897]

It's funny because in the comics, Pa died of a heart attack, something superman in all his power cannot prevent. It would have been way better if they went with that.

[@comikdebris]

They still could have used the tornado scene, the difference being that Pa died of heart attack while trying save someone else.

[@zechrojas2202]

@@comikdebris I love my dog but I wouldn't leave my daughter an orphan to save a dog. That was a dumb scene.

[@hunterolaughlin]

@@zechrojas2202Wow! You’re completely heartless for letting a dog die. Should change your profile pic to Joker or Lex Luthor.

[@topherbarbee7304]

The best part about Ironman is that when Tony left the cave, that ending was a new beginning. That felt like I small movie within the movie. The best part is how advanced he made the Ironman after the cave.

[@mr.knightthedetective7435]

*Finally* someone pointed out that ridiculous hurricane scene. You know what other problem is with it? Clark could've saved his dad in time without even getting noticed using his *superspeed.* It was as simple as that.

[@bertrandronge9019]

instead they chose to make him watch his dad die and do nothing about it lol

[@mr.knightthedetective7435]

@@bertrandronge9019 Yeah that scene is so stupid it's beyond belief

[@stampnutz7495]

He's only baby superman. Even real Superman isn't as fast as Flash... not moving invisibly fast.

[@mr.knightthedetective7435]

@@stampnutz7495 he's power has developed enough to move at subsonic speeds...

[@anandhvijaykumar667]

@@mr.knightthedetective7435 But the movie try to give a scientific reason as of why Superman could fly. Because of the early having a weaker gravitational force blah blah blah. So according to the movie it was impossible to go supersonic for Superman

[@wendellmollycheck3669]

The line in Man of Steel where Jonathan Kent tells his son to let those kids die from the bus crash that was just inexcusable

[@TabaquiJackal906]

That was where I 'noped' out. Never regretted it.

[@AegisNova]

Jonathan says, “Maybe.”

[@jeremyfrost2636]

@@AegisNova That's even worse. They decided on a moral standpoint (albeit a horrible one), but then didn't have the balls to follow through on it.

[@Sniper117CN]

Respectfully, I disagree. With the number of conspiracy theorists, religious fanatics, and general fear of the unknown that's out there, the revelation that aliens are not only real but have been hiding among us with extraordinary powers would likely cause mass panic in some places. This would likely lead to hundreds of deaths at least in the chaos, as well as a radical shift in both the political and religious spectrum. Who is god of the aliens? All that is what Pa Kent was considering when Clark asked that question, which is why he responded with "maybe". Of course he doesn't want innocent kids to die, but there was a much larger danger at stake to consider.

[@TabaquiJackal906]

@@Sniper117CN Meh. I really don't think so. Especially as there's only *ONE* alien, and he's a small boy. The 'world' didn't have to know, and people are very good at ignoring what they don't want to believe. Suggesting his friends should have been left for dead was so not Pa Kent, in every way.

[@Chestnut85]

My idea to improve this scene would have used a fire 🔥 instead of a tornado 🌪. Imagine; we see Clark throwing winning pass of his highschool football game. The crowd erupts. Cut to the Kent's driving home. Clark says he's not accepting the football scholarship to Kansas A&T and wants to go to another school to pursue journalistic writing. Jonathan questions Clark's last minute change of heart. Clark replies"I just want to do something meaningful my life!" Jonathan replies, " so farming,..feeding people isn't meaningful?!" Cut to a glowing smoking sky. We see someone's farm house is on fire. Jonathan stops as its a family the Kent's know. The man and woman who've escaped the flames says some family is still inside. Clark starts toward the house and Jonathan stops him saying to go watch after the initial escapees. Jonathan runs in and comes back out with an child. The family then realizes the grandfather is still inside. Jonathan runs in again. A few seconds pass Clark becomes distressed and begins to run in after his father. He then sees Jonathan assisting an older man out of the house. We cut to a hospital. The family Jonathan saved from the fire tearfully thank the Kent's saying Jonathan saved them and that thier grandpa is going to be okay. Then a doctor comes to Martha. Clark sitting a short distance away listens in with his hearing. He hears the doctor saying Jonathan had a heart attack due to the stress the smoke put on his lungs and heart. He's died. Clark yells in agony. This would resonate with the earlier scene of Clark rescuing the oil rig workers and reinforces the idea that Clark needs to to not hesitate to act and help others regardless of the consequences to him because he can take it.

[@robertbates2987]

you've hit the nail on the head, that would have been a great scene

[@emilylove146]

Great analysis! I'd add that Marvel is exceptional in not taking itself seriously which allows for natural humor that compliments the ridiculousness of superheroes. DC tries to be so serious, so when they do attempt humor, it's awkward and flat.

[@sivamani8437]

Because marvel heroes are comedians and DC heroes are not.

[@mayotango1317]

@@sivamani8437 You need to read the comics, only Spider-Man is the comedian.

[@seulgi1211]

@@sivamani8437 lol, If Batman should be serious, they should make Alfred do that sarcastic Jarvis style. I mean, even Captain America is serious but there are times it's funny just because of the situation. Unlike Spiderman, Antman or Deadpool who tells joke, the other jokes are subtle. Even flash jokes sometimes. Barry or Wally makes jokes. Hal Jordan fits comedy as well. Looked at what they made Aquaman, he actually fits comedy. Not comedy comedy but Barbaric comedy. Like Thor. The scriptwriters and directors just doesn't know how to handle jokes.

[@omargonzales3]

@@sivamani8437 yup DC heroes are so moving with emotion, they move me from my theater seat to out the door in 20 min

[@fortimusprime]

Honestly, that's what I love about DC and the Snyderverse overall. It is a real film. It feels real, deep and even artistic. Marvel feels shallow and just too comical. I grow tired of the constant one-liner jokes of Marvel. Not everything needs comedy. Of course that's for me.

[@SunDarling369]

Also, who listens to their parents when they're telling you not to save them. Like if I have the ability to I don't care what you say I'm saving you. And when the debree and wind slowly gathers around his father how is he not flying away or at least being pulled by the wind but instead just standing there perfectly still and straight on his broken leg.

[@luellavanallen9481]

I'm not even saying that Jonathan Kent wouldn't tell Clark not to save him in order to try to protect his son, but there is no version of Clark Kent that would allow his father to die needlessly.

[@ounobaga1829]

Cars are flying but his father is just standing waiting to be eated by the tornado. Logic

[@expiredcoffee7991]

There's a reason he didn't save him. The world wasn't ready for Superman

[@jaylenharris2866]

@@expiredcoffee7991 Real heroes would save people and not wait for the right time to introduce themselves. Iron Man didn't sit on his ass because the world was not "ready" for him. He flew all the way to the middle east to destroy his weapons and save people. And when, pray tell, would be a good time? Does he have to wait until the world is in danger before doing anything? And that point is a plot reason, not a personal reason.

[@expiredcoffee7991]

@@jaylenharris2866 man of steel and MCU are very different worlds. MCU is more forgiving. Clark was scared while Tony was a billionaire so Tony could just get away with it

[@LordToxygene]

Nothing in that scene where Clark's father died makes any sense. Clark should have been able to use his super hearing to hear that tornado from far away. Tornadoes are loud as hell. Even if his father didn't want him to use his strength his father could have at least fought to stay alive by trying to hobble back. Who here buys that any midwestern American guy would have given up so easily on life. Especially when he still had a wife and kid that still needed him. That's why that scene doesn't resonate. The Dr. from Ironman fought until his dying breath to survive and help others in doing so and his family was already dead!

[@jdal21]

the world isnt ready for a superman yet thats what pa believes

[@adnanjusic4890]

other than that scene man of steel was a great movie!

[@arthurfisher1857]

@@adnanjusic4890 other than that massively important scene that is the emotional crux of the entire movie, it's great...

[@billyrusso9170]

Watch his death they knew it was close Clark didn't save him because the world wasn't ready for the superman and the dad didn't want him to save him

[@victorma9355]

I want to make sure does Clark Kent at that time knows he is strong enough to withstand a tornado?

[@hunterlawrence3573]

This might sound kind of random, but one of my favorite things about most versions of Superman is his usual reveal to the world, where on a normal day he suddenly saves someone from a normal catastrophe, and Metropolis isn't quite sure what to make of it. This works really well with Superman as he was the first superhero. The way no one would've had any reason to expect or even imagine a superhero might help and their shock when he does is something I very much enjoy seeing. In Man of Steel, Zod reveals himself to the entire planet. So when Superman shows up it's no longer something supposed to be out of the realm of possibility and instead is just another link in a wild chain of events.

[@chrisoconnor7894]

Any version of Clark that lets his father die like that, isn't really Superman.

[@alexanderkilburg7415]

Didn't he ever have to choose between helping someone and blowing his cover, which could potentially harm people he loved? I thought that it was a tough choice, but one that recognized man's fallen nature. The end didn't have a whole lot to do with that, but if you stretch a bit, you could say that his decision to destroy Krypton's chance at rebirth was motivated by love for humanity, and trust that it would not destroy itself, making it worth saving.

[@ecliptorcalrissian5014]

@@alexanderkilburg7415 It's just that he'd put saving someone above blowing his cover every single time, and he's, well, Superman. There are ways he could've saved him without anyone's mind leaping to aliens.

[@jeffneely5556]

And any version of Jonathan Kent that suggests letting a bus full of kids drown is not Jonathan Kent.

[@popstudioacademy5425]

Exactly!

[@willmorrell488]

It shows that he trusted his father absolutely. He wasn't impulsive and wreckless as the heroes are in the MCU. That's the tragedy of the situation. Moments before he said 'you're not my real dad'. But when it comes to it, he loves and trusts the judgement of Jonathan Kent even to a fault. That's more emotionally impactful than anything Marvel has done.

[@jones4308]

I read a parody of Superman, where his parents insisted he keep his powers secret, and they kept saying "what would the neighbors think?". That seemed to be the moral philosophy of Man of Steel, up until the end when it didn't matter anymore.

[@ionnicoara6657]

Sounds like a very real life situation.

[@dorksdomain8355]

Screen crush: both father figures die showing their son a valueable lesson Yensen : don’t waste your life Pa Kent : puts up hand and dies in tornado

[@ultramegaman555]

come on, one is saying a line, the other one is expressing feelings and motivation given throughout the movie even amplyifiying it not cool to drag down an emotionally written scene shown via footage vs one that can be quoted mate

[@dorksdomain8355]

ultramegaman555 but that’s my point he doesn’t really express what he thinks is right we just have to assume he means the world isn’t ready like he’s been babbling the entire movie. He could have been thinking or meaning anything at that point in time. Meanwhile yensen doesn’t do this he doesn’t leave us to guess or wonders he looks at him and he says don’t waste your life there is no other way to interpret that in the context of this scene

[@davfree9732]

Pa Kent’s death was better handled in the original. He realises he’s having a heart attack and drops dead, high lighting the fragility of people around Clark, and how he can’t save everyone. In Man of Steel, Pa Kent chooses to die, and by doing so, chooses death, highlighting how people don’t want to be saved, thus showing people are ultimately damned... but this message is later undone when people reach for him as death knocks on their door, showing the exact opposite of what Pa Kent’s sacrifice was all about

[@dorksdomain8355]

Dav Free yeah I liked the original better as well

[@arashitendou5941]

But you forget If the handling of MOS told us anything....it’s that apparently Zack follows the Bay Book ‘F subtlety, People want Explosions and Big Set Pieces’ To big executives and such of the present day it seems a heart attack is to basic and small We (the viewers) want BIG OVER THE TOP SPECTACLES!

[@matthewspencer2094]

More importantly... Tony Stark doesn't want his power used to harm the innocent at every turn, yet trusts himself to use it for good. Clark Kent uses his power to destroy an entire city without remorse, yet chooses not to use it to save an innocent (his dad). Tony Stark is a snarky narcissistic relatable good guy who learns to put his life at risk for others. Clark Kent is a polite unrelatible boy-scout who chooses for his father to die and ruins an entire city for personal reasons/conflicts.

[@apenzijncool6395]

If you learned about this franchise, you would have read in the comics and seen in old movies that superman tries to move the battle but the villains keep the fight especially there cause there he can't focus 100% on the fight cause he cares to much about saving people. If he was to run away from the city Zod would've just killed everyone and what was he gonna? just watch?

[@apenzijncool6395]

I'm a huge Marvel fan, read a lot of comics, since 1980 and seen every marvel movie but What I can't stand is when people who didn't invest in understanding both sides, come to conclusions. You are watching it from your point of view with not all the information.

[@apenzijncool6395]

Also with his dad, he specifically got told by everyone not to show his powers and like later said in the movie it would make the world go crazy if he showed them, of course later he has no choice but at that point he didn't know that yet.

[@apenzijncool6395]

Y'all seem to think superman knows everything senses everything and is a somewhat God but he isn't, he's an alien with super strength, speed, and other superpowers but seeing the future isn't one of them

[@apenzijncool6395]

Also the scene is important cause thats the first time he realizes even though hes superior to the humans he isn't able to save everyone around him.

[@unnatsadh742]

MCU: "There was an idea, to bring together, a group of remarkable people" DC: "There was an idea to bring together a group of characters to stand up against MCU, but they never could"

[@juandalepringle9838]

yea

[@noscticorinmooosom4643]

No man. I'm respect your opinion, but I don't accept it. I like MCU too, sometimes dark but most of the times, light and entertaining. While DC movies are mostly dark, less humor with more depth. Doesn't mean MCU has no depth. WB is the one who destroyed DC by putting Joss Whedon(Avengers director) to direct Justice League. Which ultimately looked like Avengers parody. But DC deserves more respect man. You need to give it a try. Just forget every superhero movie you've seen for time being and watch DCEU movies. They're really epic🔥🔥🔥. Just pulling out a point. DC came before Marvel...

[@themaster6718]

Of course. DC can’t even beat the X-Men movies.

[@Girl-di5dg]

😂😂😂

[@jebinj6611]

@@themaster6718 you are saying 'dc' movies didn't beat x-men. Dark knight trilogy is enough to take on the entire MCU 😂🤣🤣🤣

[@TristanGrimaux]

The fact that Robert Downey Jr is a great actor plays a fundamental role on making Iron Man such a great movie, added the good chemistry with Jon Favreau and the bits of humour they planted all along the movie.

[@minecraftotalwar]

Exactly. That's the real reason iron man worked, and we all know that

[@shivamvikramsingh4515]

Couldn't agree more. Iron Man 2, and 3 are nothing when compared to Iron Man 1, but it's Robert Downey Jr who shines out and made Iron Man so popular and fun to watch

[@AKIRA-wh8nm]

@@_Muk_ bruh rdj just played him self in every movie, how is that the best. look at heath ledger from gay cowboy to anarchy, thats what a great actor do

[@AKIRA-wh8nm]

@@_Muk_ what im talking is, what define great actors are. That is what actors do, thats their hobby, improvising base character, drowned into character depth, exploring charaters, even turn 180 from their regular habits. Like choi min sik ate a living squid in oldboy, he hate animal cruelty but the character base design what makes him have to.

[@reactions5783]

Yes. Robert Downey Jr has great charisma, despite being physically tiny, and so audiences buy him as Iron Man. Whereas, Henry Cavill is a charisma vacuum, despite looking the part of Superman, so most audiences (other than the most superficial children) don't connect with him as genuine Superman. He comes off more of a realistic-looking cardboard cut-out Supes.

[@calebfielding6352]

Superman has been stronger than everyone else his entire life, which means that if he isnt careful he will hurt them. He is basicly the kid who is 6 feet tall at seven years old and has to be very careful to not hurt people his whole life. for him being a super hero means that he can finally interact and be friends with folks. Hollywood directors and writers dont get this. Its amazing to me how the animated series gets this right every time but hollywood big budget films dont get this.

[@larrydavison8298]

Superman the Animated Series was done by people who were also fans. The Hollywood crowd isn't, mostly.

[@coffeeonmyfoot86]

Holywood is...well...holywood...whatchu expect? Edit: I didnt care so much I fucked up the spelling of Hollywood...

[@colin294]

@@larrydavison8298 thats the great thing about the marvel movies when they started they got people that loved the comics and knew the characters

[@gardeniac.3782]

Haha I watched a modern Cinderella movie on KZbin that was made by students It was soooooo much better than the modern Cinderella Hollywood stuff Disney did pretty good tho

[@kildaver]

"World of Cardboard", as Superman put it.

[@macgyver3434]

Well said. Additionally, they also portrayed him far too dark and moody. This is Superman. His greatest power is the ability to inspire hope!

[@dasdovian7785]

Absolutely.

[@user-xr3ul2xc1l]

That's why man of steel is one of my favourite comic book movies. I HATE no no no I LOATHE happy and hopeful superman. I love realistic superman and Henry cavill's superman is just that.

[@macgyver3434]

@@user-xr3ul2xc1l That Superman is far from realistic. No one is that moody, and that character isn't Superman.

[@user-xr3ul2xc1l]

@@macgyver3434 But he isn't moody, he acts normal, he acts like any normal human would if they had that power. He isn't like Christopher Reeves superman or comics superman, he doesn't just come in and expect to save EVERYONE. No no no, when you're a hero you can't save everyone and people will die.

[@macgyver3434]

@@user-xr3ul2xc1l There's a problem when Thor is more optimistic than Superman. The reason Marvel live action movies are doing better than DC (and I'm a DC fan) is because they're not afraid to make a comic book movie, while DC is trying to take the comic book out of it. It's almost like every scene is apologizing that this movie was inspired by a comic book, meanwhile Marvel is getting rich making a movie about a talking raccoon and his best friend the talking tree. Dark and ominous Superman isn't Superman, and that portrayal is why the movie didn't excel like Wonder Woman and Aquaman did.

[@victorsalas4377]

THANK YOU! This is exactly what I've been saying about the tornado scene. It made no sense killing off Jonathan Kent that way, especially when the point become moot, once Zod shows up. To me, this is what derailed the set up for BvS (and the rest of the DCEU).

[@zhengyingli]

The point wasn't moot. Jonathan did succeed in protecting Clark's identity at that point, didn't he?

[@zechrojas2202]

@@zhengyingli He could have protected his identity but not saving a dog. Or are you saying that his identity is more important than their family dogs life? Either way it's beyond ridiculous. lol

[@paulgibbon5991]

@@zhengyingli Even then, it feels ridiculously forced. Who's even looking at them at that point, vs running for their lives from the tornado?

[@hunterolaughlin]

@@zechrojas2202Hey, a dog is a living being. Like many have pointed out, just be better to have Clark get the dog without giving away his superpowers, or my suggestion, just take the dog out immediately and get it to safety instead of at the last minute.

[@MadeByDW]

If Pa would’ve just died of a heart attack like in the comics, something that Supes has no control over, his death would’ve hit harder.

[@ladyscarlette6289]

It would have hurt so much more of Clark could actually see it happening and not being able to do anything about. Also, x-rays can't see soft tissue, I don't know what that was about, but still, imaging being able to see your father's heart fail.

[@MadeByDW]

Lady Scarlett I can picture the scene in my head. Clark could’ve came home to Martha and doctors surrounding Jonathan, or they could’ve kept this scene for a minor action sequence and just had him die of a heart attack instead of being killed by the tornado as Clark and everyone watched. I also like their idea of Clark trying to save Jonathan but accidentally hurting him and letting go, they does fit really well with the character and would’ve reinforced the fact that this Clark in that scene is meant to be younger than Cavill in the rest of the movie

[@ladyscarlette6289]

@@MadeByDW picture this though, it's Sunday afternoon and they sit down at the table to eat a nice roast. Clark is a little cranky because he keeps hearing something, something he can't identify and it's driving him crazy. He's agitated, he's walked the entire farm but he can't figure out what happening, what's upsetting him. Martha is concerned in that quiet mom way and Johnathan tells her he'll talk to Clark after lunch. They've sat down at the table and the sound is driving Clark crazy, he squeezes the cutlery in his hand, crushing it beyond use and then Johnathan gasps, clutches at his left shoulder and keeps over sideways. Clark zero's in on the sound, it's coming from Johnathan's chest. He's sees a tiny piece of something lodged in the small vein of Johnathan's heart, sees how his heart beats out of rhythm to compensate sees how smaller clots lodge up against the next one and he realises that the sound he's been hearing is pieces of plague break off from the lining of Johnathan's arteries and traveling at speed through his father's blood, ricocheting off the walls of his veins. He can't do anything but watch as his father's heart beats and beats to correct the irregularity, he sees how parts of the muscle starts to die from oxygen loss and he feels so helpless...

[@popmiggy]

The 2008 heart attack? When brainiac destroys the farm? Because that’s the only time Pa Kent has died of a heart attack in the comics.

[@OsSas3]

@@popmiggy All Star Superman says *Hi*

[@mightbearer]

I like the idea of Jonathan Kent dying from something Clark couldn't save him from, like a heart attack or something. This would teach Clark that despite all his abilities, he can't save everyone, similar to the first Richard Donner Superman movie with Lois Lane, even though he reversed time lol. This also teach Clark something that he inspires others to do. He does the best that he can, and inspires others to.

[@wolfsworkshop9095]

I mean, I remember there was a scene in a comic or a cartoon where there was a guy dying from a complication his brain, so what does he do? He litterally read all the medical books he can find as fast as he can, and the he proceeds to save that guy by burning the issue with his laser eyes

[@mightbearer]

@@wolfsworkshop9095 oh yea! I forgot about that! But could he stop a heart attack? I remember he removed an implant from Batman's brain using heat vision, but could he stop a heart attack? Or maybe Jonathan Kent has been sick for a while and the only reason he's still alive is because of Superman prolonging him and Jonathan is finally like "thank you for everything son. You being here has been a blessing enough. I think I can go now" or something?

[@MarkFilipAnthony]

Sure, however Jonathan Kent dying to protect the safety of his own son is also very powerfull MoS is a lot about self security and take the time to manage yourself and know that you are ready when the time is right. In the movie its very importsnt to not to be pressured to do something other wants you to do, but know in your own heart that you are mentaly ready to take on the task of other peoples lives. It teaches an important lesson that even if you could save somone, you need to be ready for the consequences it has if you fail or if others then see you as a hero. Its a lot to demand for a kid, and even a young adult. Putting somone elses lives in their hands.

[@crazymanwithaplunger]

Clark is not an idiot. He doesn't need to learn he can't save people from natural causes of death like heart disease because he's not a moron. No one needs to learn that lesson. He knows he has limitations. That's why that reasoning of his dad dying is dumb. It was dumb in the 70's and it would have been dumb in 2013 and it's still dumb in 2020. Can you honestly say that if you had Supermans powers you'd need someone you loved to die of a heart attack to learn you can't save everyone and some things are out of your control? Or would it not even occur to you to think like that because only an idiot who doesn't understand how life and death works might think like that?

[@MarkFilipAnthony]

@@crazymanwithaplunger dude its just a story. In stories you need to put your characters in situations to trigger a theme that reflects the characters struggle later in the telling. What is being criticsized is not really the realizm of the sutuations, its the presentation and execution of these scenes that is supposed to trugger an emotional situation that is going to carry a theme throughout the characters arc. An example is to give a character pillars contrasts which are represented by situations that the story can bring back for comparison and contrasts. A problem in stories are assumtions, assumtions for what the storyteller assumes the listner knows and doesnt know allready. So for giving Clark a very strong emotional situations that can thrives the theme forward, the heart attack of a loved one is very effective. That doesnt mean he has never accounted these thoughts or ideas before, its more that this is a situation that empacts him so emotionally that it will stay with him forever. The assumtion that you make and that any story overlooks is that one can know and learn these lessions without a melodramatic situation, but that doesnt underline the importance of the lesson for the lreaders of the story. Stories are not about being realistic, stories are about placing ideas and themes in a specific order to make you think about them through the characters reflections on them. Everything is told through specific placed symbols, emotions and other associations to push through a message to the reader. Ofc one can tell these things in a hundred diffrent ways that are more lr less effective. Real life things dont work that way, we put reason into moments ourselves, not the othet way sround. So there doesnt exsists any realistic stories, only stories told more effectivly than others

[@MultiBugggs]

The stakes of revealing Clark’s identity is way higher than Ironman though. Every villain went after Tony directly because they know under those suits, he can be killed. The same isn’t true with Superman. While Superman can’t be harmed physically, they can be broken mentally. That’s why Lex went after his mother in BvS.

[@crankynu]

My problem with the death of Pa Kent is how it happened. Because it's so immensely out of character for Clark. Pa Kent is supposed to die from something beyond Clark's control. He can't magically heal people or bring them back from the dead. It's a moment of realizing that despite his many powers some things are always going to be beyond his reach. It's a humbling experience. It not only keeps him grounded but also lets him feel what it's like to be truly human. Being helpless at times is what it's like to be human and Superman will always strive to help those who are. We know who Clark and Superman are, and I understand Snyder was trying something new out and trying to explore some stuff. But what he was trying to explore, isn't Superman. It's a dude wearing the same suit pretending to be a broody edgelord. I feel bad for Henry Cavill. When Chris Reeve died the media reported the death of Superman. When Henry dies (hopefully of very old age) they will not say the same.

[@zechrojas2202]

Preach!!!!

[@sheyanderson4371]

Pa Kent having a heart attack in the original Superman always hit me more. It was a clear and simple, but powerful example that Clark can’t save everyone. I understood what Snyder was going for, it was more of them protecting Clark as their son. They wanted him to take more time and figure out what is best for him and not make decisions because he thinks he’s obligated to. Man of Steel worked for me, I’m in the minority, but I understand the critique of this scene. I prefer the original in Donner’s. Oh and Iron Man is still probably my favorite MCU movie.

[@Galvatronover]

Actually I see al lot of people praising this movie for some reason probably because of the action scenes or having a false sense of What Superman is I also think this film might age poorly

[@sheyanderson4371]

@@Galvatronover Like I said, I am in the minority with MoS. Aside from the Pa Kent death, this movie gets a little better every time I watch it. It’s not the action, although that was a plus, it was just the entire modernization and relate-ability of the character Snyder brought. MoS was Clark’s struggle to know who/what he is, his purpose here, and the worlds reaction to him. Don’t necessarily just watch it as a Superman/comic book movie. I mean the second half is pretty much an alien invasion movie. Also, the score is beyond great.

[@Galvatronover]

@@sheyanderson4371 yeah that minority thing no a lot of people like this movie outside of this comment section

[@kukuhindustanigamer3663]

@@Galvatronover no, Snyder's movies are aging good, we're seeing more and more people changing their opinions about MOS and BvS, why do you think we're even getting the Snyder Cut.. Even Chris Nolan admitted that watchmen was ahead of its time

[@Galvatronover]

@@kukuhindustanigamer3663 the Snyder cut wasn’t the result of people changing their minds it was a result of the fans disappointed in justice league

[@areasmith]

Another important point is that outside of comic book readers, no one really knew who the character of Iron Man really was until the movie came out. This allowed viewers to be introduced to a new character never really before seen by the masses. That coupled with Robert Downey, Jr. making a pretty big comeback as an actor also boosted the movie's fanbase. By contrast, a lot of people knew who Superman is. His movies have been around for quite a long time so most people are aware that his father dying is a pivotal piece of his transformation into a hero. This tends to lesson the surprise or tension this is meant to create.

[@lo4tr]

I'd say it's less of the fact that Superman's family dying becomes less suspenseful and more that it becomes more critical. Because you've seen it done, you have something to compare it to. So, any little issue suddenly stands out because you've already seen that very scene done right.

[@Resavian]

It is like Batman's parents. No death scene they are in has an emotional response anymore it is just... here we go again

[@MarkSkater]

lol what do u mean no1 knew ... there is carton n comic book ? hahaha

[@da1king0fwakanda56]

areasmith well in the animated series and in some comic storylines Pa Kent actually lives and Clark still becomes Superman, I think that might’ve been a better way to go for Man of Steel

[@andmicbro1]

Well Iron Man also wasn't a big character outside of the comic books, so his whole character was new for audiences. But that's where Marvel has done really well and made even the fans of the comic books excited, they have stayed true to the characters (even with some big changes made for the movies) and they have brought the comics to life. Captain America is probably the closest in character to Superman. They are both the older characters both Marvel and DC, they are representative of hard work, morality, kindness, and maybe even a little naivete as their moral worldview doesn't allow them to think of leaving someone behind, or hurting someone to achieve a goal. They are the boy scouts. Captain America in the Marvel movies stays true to this character, he's always trying to make the moral choice, even when that's not possible. Superman in Man of Steel end up feeling conflicted about his morality, and in the process it kind of forgets what his character is, and every choice, every action is second guessed by himself as well as others. I mean if we wanted a hyper real Superman then I guess there you go. But it's not satisfying, and it's not true to the character. Man of Steel had a lot of flaws, but let's just focus on the ending where he kills Zod, because that's the only choice. Would the boy scout Superman have accepted that? I think I'd he was able to dig down and stay true to his morals, even in the face of great opposition, and found a way to defeat Zod without compromising his morals, it would have felt more triumphant. Maybe he found a way to send him to the phantom zone that didn't involve killing him. Maybe he found a way to knock him out and imprison him with Kryptonian tech, who knows? But it would have left a better taste in the mouths of audiences than that mess we ended up with. A mess that set the stage for the whole DCEU movies and made them messes as well. To be fair, I didn't hate everything Man of Steel did, but the biggest flaws are 1) the way they handled Pa Kent was terrible. It would be like if Batman's parents decided to go out of their way to go down a dark alley, then after getting robbed decided to shoot themselves in the head. Terribly done, just terrible. 2) the climax was really after the Kryptonian ship got sucked into the phantom zone, but then Zod shows up, and while I'm okay with a final showdown, holy crap! They just kept going. More buildings exploding, more mayhem, more and more and more! It just kept going! By that point my disaster appetite was gone and I wasn't enjoying the destruction, it felt like overkill really. Then finally 3) the death of Zod. In the end Superman lost. He lost his morals because Zod forced Superman to kill him. Zod had lost his final battle already, he was already defeated in his goal. So Zod made a new goal, kill Superman, or force Superman to kill him. In his new goal he was successful, so why does it feel like Superman lost? Because he did. That's a nice little downer to end on. In Captain America's movies things don't always go to plan. There is darkness. And yeah, sometimes Cap loses too, but he never loses his soul. Even in Winter Soldier when he's losing to Bucky he's still in possession of his morals, and his soul. And he ultimately wins because of this. Marvel movies have felt good because they stay true to the characters and they bring them to life in the big screen. DC has been settling for characters that look like the ones from the comics, but overall aren't the same characters, and the fans can feel that.

[@TheSlySight]

The audience actually laughed at that Man of Steel death scene in the cinema.

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

Me too 😂🤣 idk why but for some reason when my favourite superhero died in bvs I was laughing like hell

[@Anshumansahu23]

You seriously don't have any emotion lol

[@cjnogodula]

I never thought of an "I'm so powerful I have to keep my powers hidden" dilemma to be very compelling imo like the theme of "With great power, comes great responsibility" always comes up in those situations So when Zod comes to Earth, for example, if Papa Kent had his way, then Clark would just stay as Clark until its too late Even if Zod never came to Earth then SOMETHING else will come that would endanger Earth, and with Clark being able to help, what's he gonna do? Nothing? idk imo I never found it as a compelling dilemma

[@sauravrathi2799]

It can be intimidating to find out that such a superior being than humans exists.

[@glennwatson3313]

Jonathon Kent's death was terrible. No way, no way does Superman let his father die like that. No way!

[@quandale6258]

watch the movie and you'll get it

[@TheWeekendStuffs]

@@quandale6258 it still a waste of death if you watch it really close.

[@Factsworld_001]

@@quandale6258 watched many time and still didn't feel so dumb. It was do easy for clark to save his father and still keep his secret.

[@samcarson5892]

Superman’s dad clearly stopped Clark from saving him, because he didn’t think the world was ready for superman to show himself, they would just try to kill him(it won’t work though)

[@glennwatson3313]

@@samcarson5892 Jonathon's action was understandably and in character. But Clark Kent/Superman does not hesitate to save a person because that person thinks it might hurt Superman if he is saved. Superman always, always puts the needs of others before his own. The calculus here was (father's life verses Superman's secret identity. For Superman that is not even a close call. Superman killing Zod was also wrong but at least it was understandable.

[@ReedRichardsPhD]

The one is Character Driven, the other is Plot Driven. Simple as that

[@thefilmeffect6089]

...well neither are character driven and even Screen Crush pointed out how simple the arc is in Iron Man. No MCU or DCEU movies are character driven. Iron Man just handles his arc better than Man Of Steel. You will rarely ever find a superhero movie that's character driven because of the hero and villain dynamic. Superhero movies can have great character work like the The Dark Knight, but the hero/villain dynamic will almost always lend itself to being plot driven. Logan is the one that comes the closest to being fully character driven, but that is the very rare exception. I've been wanting more character work in the MCU for years and they suffer from something I call surface level storytelling, where they give you just enough character to move the plot forward and that's it. That is what happens in Iron Man.

[@Hotteststewpot]

Wouldn’t you say Wonder Woman is character driven?

[@Hotteststewpot]

Because I fee like wonder woman’s call to heroics we’re more based on she couldn’t stand around and watch all this turmoil happen. While Superman only came out for zod and Batman only came out for Superman

[@travionjohnson3975]

So u gonna act like iron man 2 and 3 didn’t suck🤔

[@connorschrock1032]

Travion Johnson I don’t think they did, I like them too

[@andrewhillary3307]

Reason why Iron Man worked and Man of Steel didn't: 1. Iron Man actually saves people. OKAY OKAY! geez u guys, I like Superman I really do, but Iron Man was a better kick off to the superhero universe. At least we can all agree Justice League was bad right? (Can't wait for the Snyder Cut.)

[@ruturajghodke3877]

and Superman actually saved Earth.

[@andrewhillary3307]

@@ruturajghodke3877 not in Man of Steel he didn't. Sure he stopped and alien invasion but he didn't stop to think that the damage that HE was causing when fighting Zod was affecting people.

[@kcnichols8968]

@@andrewhillary3307 Yeah but if he doesn't stop Zod (there was no real way of doing so without collateral damage) then Zod kills all of humanity.

[@FernandoChannel228]

​@@andrewhillary3307 He saved 7 billion people, idiot

[@lorastra6975]

@@kcnichols8968 First of all smart one, if Supes is smart to snap Zod's neck then he can take the fight to ANYWHERE but the city. Secondly, while he may have saved the Earth. Collateral damage in hundreds to thousands of people is not a good off trade. The real Superman wouldn't have fought needlessly across the city just because it looks cool. He'd have taken the fight somewhere else where not alot of people were or were nobody was.

[@lucas11001]

Wow. Your entire explanation about that tornado scene in man of steel was completely logical but I did not think ANY of those things while watching the movie. I literally just did not notice any bad point about this scene and felt exactly how the scene tried to make me feel

[@anubusx]

Also after that, Clark rescued people on the oil rig. He didn't conceal himself everybody saw what he looked like.

[@Dzumeister]

maybe he let his dad die because he was a dick lmao

[@elijahlee3610]

He disappears. He relocates. People dont know who he is. Lois even calls him a ghost

[@gabrielgrez7440]

That´s beacuse nobody knew him neither in the boat and the rig, but in the tornado scene he was in his home town everybody knew everybody

[@anubusx]

@@gabrielgrez7440 I still feel he would of got away with it as lots people have had survived natural and man made disasters. As if it were a miracle. Considering everything his dad and himself surviving would be forgotten pretty quickly.

[@gabrielgrez7440]

​@@anubusx I agree, but I do not consider it a BIG mistake in the movie, it is a topic of discussion, I do not deny it, but it is never to give so much importance or cancel your "suspension of disbelief" while watching the movie, as I said in another comment I felt much more difficult to believe that Tony Stark was left in a large "personal cave" with explosive material and also with an assistant with only the supervision of a camera that easily eluded ...

[@dirdib69]

"No, no. Now, you listen to me. When you first came to us, we thought people would come and take you away because, when they found out, you know, the things you could do... and that worried us a lot. But then a man gets older, and he starts thinking differently and things get very clear. And one thing I do know, son, and that is you are here for a 'reason'. I don't know whose reason, or whatever the reason is... Maybe it's because... uh... I don't know. But I do know one thing. It's 'not' to score touchdowns. Huh?" -Pa Kent "Live as one of them, Kal-El, to discover where your strength and your power are needed. But always hold in your heart the pride of your special heritage. They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you... my only son." -Jor El So, yeah, not like the writers shouldn't have known better.

[@lindsaymorrison7519]

Wow that's true. As a whole, Superman's internal conflict in any story often seems unrelateable because he is so overpowered compared to everyone else, but they really could've made this such a better film just if Clark had tried to save his dad and failed or even caused his father's death. It would've matched the tone of this darker universe, which you can still disagree with, but it would've made the story work with that tone better. Clark being afraid he was going to hurt his dad too much and letting his dad die is such a better internal conflict. Superman does feel like the people he loves are fragile because to him, we literally are, but also he appreciates the preciousness of human life because of it. His struggle to save or not save, his struggle to control his strength, would be much more potent when Zod does show up and force his hand. Zod has no appreciation for the preciousness of human life yet is able to treat that life like cardboard. It would really hammer in the choice he makes in defeating Zod. I can understand why that version of Superman, Superman who couldn't save his favorite human, would choose to break his code and kill a non-human person.

[@rezajavadian2035]

Man of Steel is sooo underrated, haters mostly mention details. Man of Steel is not perfect, but it's still a very good movie. I personally liked more Man of Steel than IronMan. (IronMan was very good though)

[@sanketmahale8695]

Yes bro me too

[@pavangarimella9945]

DC fan boy??

[@stephenwilburn4012]

I always appreciated Jonathan Kent's death in the original Christopher Reeve Superman movie because it felt so true to life. As the young Clark says, with all his powers he couldn't do anything to save his dad from as simple a thing as a heart attack. This then comes back around with Lois at the end (before all the going back in time stuff... that always bothered me). It made Superman relatable because no matter how strong or smart or confident we are, there are forces at work that are beyond our control, even for Superman. The scene was so moving because of its subtlety. The Pa Kent death in Man of Steel lost all of that meaning for the sake of trying to add action and drama where subtlety would have been more powerful. Remember screen writers, less is often more.

[@missserenity1090]

Stephen Wilburn less is often more is also good advice for acting realistically. I hear people criticizing actors because they aren’t being super melodramatic. Like in Endgame when Tony is dying. You can see that Pepper is trying to hold it together for Tony and let him go in peace and you can see that she is devastated, but she gets criticized for not absolutely breaking down. I don’t really like Gweneth Paltrow a whole lot, but she’s a good actress and she did well in that scene.

[@stephenwilburn4012]

@@missserenity1090 Well said!!!

[@DonnaBrooks]

I never saw the original Superman movie w/ Reeve, but just the idea of his dad dying of a heart attack sounds SO much better than the over-the-top scene from MoS! THAT is a moment of pathos when Superman would have to accept the limits of his powers. Death comes to us all, and he can only rescue people from certain kinds of death. I just love imagining a scene like that. It would be SO much more powerful than what we see here.

[@simonnaylor3536]

The could have just let the dog out in the first place. Dog’s part of the family. If people have companion animals, they are responsible for them.

[@MrStrikecentral]

I don't understand why they closed the door of the vehicle after getting the girl out. Why would they waste time closing the door? I know it's only a fraction of a second, but there's a tornado coming!

[@summoner9924]

Yep, they would have let him out too. He missed the point that loving the dumb animal was the perfect way to say, here my son is the example of what i want you to be: learn to love these strange pathetic creatures enough to die for them, and you will truly be worthy of your power.

[@pike666db]

@@summoner9924 yeah, but that's Thor and Odin.

[@bertrandronge9019]

Sure but then he let his dad die... it makes no sense

[@RedRoseSeptember22]

@@summoner9924 You obviously aren't a pet owner. They're also not dumb.

[@sohanroy7833]

Did you even see how Faora speed attacked the soldiers? She was clearly visible, so Clark doing the same thing would have revealed him. Moreover, we weren't even shown if Clark knew that he could run that fast(At that point of his life). And the "maybe" statement clearly shows that Pa Kent was in a doubt, he never said that he should have let them die. This only shows that Pa Kent himself didn't know the answer to Clark's question.

[@zechrojas2202]

Paul Kent saying that "maybe" letting children die is telling in itself. His son had the power to save innocent lives and children lives at that. That was a terrible scene.

[@janakinetrakanti1644]

Pa Kent's death was more or less like quicksilvers death in AoU. A death that was unnecessary, easily avoidable and tried to deliver a certain type of impact but failed

[@Girl-di5dg]

I agree. Quicksilver dying was the stupidist thing that happened in the MCU

[@igorlopes8463]

The problem with Quicksilver is that he and Wanda were in a gray area because of the X-men, and at the time Fox wasn't part of Disney, so they had to settle with Pietro being with the X-men and Wanda sticking with The Avengers, so Pietro had to die. Of course, that just contributed to make Wanda the most miserable hero in the MCU, I mean, she lost her parents, her brothers, Vision three times, her home and her kids.

[@qingruiscookery]

Iron man has characters. Man of Steel has action scenes.

[@richardm3023]

Iron man's characters also help to explain the action scenes, MOS was three partial stories with action scenes interspersed between them.

[@crowkangi]

Man of Steel had brilliant character development.

[@Rabinfunk]

@@crowkangi It was mostly Character development , MOS is one of the most misunderstood movie ever! ITS CLASS!!!

[@zain1rock]

Iron man has characters and MoS doesn’t?LMFAO iron man has Tony Starks quips and a few great action scenes. MoS develops characters more than any MCU movie ever. Even more so than Captain America 1 which is the best standalone MCU movie for character development.

[@ceezyjeffezy2213]

The scene where Superman tackles Zod for attacking the farm is one of the dumbest moves ever. You leave a defenseless human with three super powered aliens to tackle one? The entire scene is supposed to be saving Martha but makes no sense except looking cool.

[@TheLibran1]

I had to come back a day later after watching this to say: Your version of Johnathan Kent's death is WAY better and you should be writing these movies. It is now official head-canon.

[@Adeloye1000]

In regards to Johnathans death, it's made clear on the movie several things. 1. This is a young clark inexperienced to the limits of his powers. 2. We dont explicitly know if hes fast enough at this point to move undetected. If hes caught, the weight of the world would fall on him. 3. Even if he was, the acceleration would kill his dad which would make him have killed his dad.... I dont think any exec or producer would sign off on that. 4. He cant fly. He would not be able to take him to safety or resist the pull of the tornado which was throwing cars easily. Clark and his dad would fly into the debris where his dad is either.... 4a. Hit by something or upon being thrown out by the tornado, the "landing" would have killed his dad. 4b. If his dad died being thrown into the tornado and everyone saw Clark run into the tornado and survive without any scatches that would be suspicious as hell. Now under the established facts of the movie, Clark either kills his dad or delays the inevitable while having his secret outed. In the older Superman movie, everyone wanted to be saved and the Superman wasnt controversial. But I think this movie raised a very important question.... Should Superman save who dont want to be saved? Clark respected and trusted his dads choice even though he hurt him like hell and the only other time he screamed like that was when Zod refused to be saved from himself and had to kill him.

[@ridosaputra5273]

I love this Superman More serious And more emotional

[@NathanVu]

I watch Man of Steel and thought it sucked, but I couldn't quite figure out why it suck, thanks to you now I understand. The original Superman with Christopher Reeves was so much better story-wise.

[@comicalvariety7315]

Never realized they had so many scenes alike💀

[@beayn]

MARTHAAAA!!

[@benrussell-gough1201]

That's what makes this video worth the watching. We have essentially identical (in terms of character themes and roles) and the whole thing ends up going in totally different directions thanks to the creators' different approaches to people and storytelling.

[@ToadstedCroaks]

There was someone some years back who pointed out that every action / sci fi movie in a set amount of years used the exact same poster, while just adjusting the characters that were on it. It was pretty uncanny to be pointed that out, because your brain probably recognizes that ...which is why it's effective, but doesn't do it to the extent that you're put off. Which is why people engross themselves in genres, which for the most part copy most of their elements from each other, and just change the aesthetic enough to not get sued or accused of being lazy. There's a lot of super hero movies in the last couple decades that are pretty much the same exact story being gold. It's a real interesting thing. Id do a search on youtube about it if you're interested.

[@RoninDave]

Man of Steel felt like it had been written in the 90s when everyone was trying to do dark and brooding and be an anti-hero. That's not Superman.

[@sphengolly]

If they showed Superman dipping into darkness as he tries to find his way, and ends up in light, it would have been great. But overall, as you say, Superman is not dark and brooding. He is shiny and bright - at least when fully realized.

[@KameronFranklin]

All Snyder needed to do was give him a mullet and the transformation would have been complete.

[@charlespuruncajas9663]

In the 90s there was Batman Forever and B&R. MoS is more akin to 2000's movies like Batman Begins (hence Nolan involvement), Blade (hence David S Goyer involvement) and Snyder's Watchmen movie.

[@benakinnusi2518]

You are a fucking idiot. Its a perfect superman that would fit into OUR real world

[@thedarks5112]

@@benakinnusi2518 He was neither perfect nor did he fit into our world any better than a more faithful adaptation of Superman would have

[@MoCa1979Jr]

Well, there's a reason it was called "Man of Steel" as opposed to "Superman", because Clark was too "steel-hearted". Superman is supposed to represent hope, which Clark learned from his dad(s). So the movie basically didn't under stand Pa Kent & thus it ruined Superman.

[@jeffreycarman2185]

Excellent assessment. I couldn’t agree more on all points. I don’t know why these writers can’t just look at their stories objectively. A character that drives the plot is much more interesting and compelling than a character who reacts to contrived plot devices.

[@thepokeybird]

"You're not my dad" -Man of Steel "Then stop pretending to be (my father)!" - Spiderman 2002 Both of their father figures die a few minutes later after a nasty argument

[@ToadstedCroaks]

Both adults acting as teenagers.

[@Ethan-mc1pg]

@@ToadstedCroaks spiderman was like 14 when ben died

[@scottkester7178]

@@Ethan-mc1pg In the comic books, yes... but Toby McGuire's Spider-Man was a little older than that.

[@cristobalgonzalez2888]

@@scottkester7178 he was still in school in the first movie tho

[@colin294]

peter always regreted that he couldnt do anything about when clark chose not to

[@DeltaHouseStudios]

I’m still waiting on a Warhammer: Horus Heresy movie with Henry Cavil as the Emperor of Mankind and Vin Diesel as Horus after learning one of them plays 40k and one plays dungeons and dragons

[@gamingdevil7064]

I'm a marvel a fan But who said man of steel didn't worked??? It was amazing

[@johnathanmonsen6567]

Something I think you didn't quite cover in your video is how shifting the focus to Clark's control is how it would affect the part of the movie that EVERYONE gets up in arms about- the fact that the fight with Zod kills THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE and they just kinda brush it off like it was no big thing. To me at least, the last point is the clincher- Cinema Wins pointed out that it makes sense for Clark to mess up a lot because while he has experience with his powers, he doesn't have experience fighting. But the way it's handled so casually, and then suddenly turns around and makes a random couple bystanders more important than all the people in those toppling skyscrapers just because they're on screen, makes it so much more offensive. But, if the conflict had been introduced earlier of Clark's fear of losing control and hurting people, (assuming we're letting somebody other than Snyder handle this so they'll keep the theme consistent), the final conflict HAS to be shifted in order to convey that better- meaning Clark HAS to show visible concern DURING THE FIGHT for how the world of cardboard is faring. Any skyscrapers that fall over are not just spectacle, they're tragedies AS THEY SHOULD BE. Clark also looks far more heroic because, like in Avengers, all the damage happens from what he FAILED to stop, not from what he DID HIMSELF.

[@paulgibbon5991]

Not to mention, the editing gets really choppy here. There's a crater about a mile across in the middle of a major city....but a short distance away, people are still working in office buildings and waiting at a train station like nothing happened?!

[@CB-kl5ew]

It's so funny when the wrong writer for a movie is picked

[@shindean]

You know what's funnier? They picked him again 2 more times.

[@Oqqguilhermepp]

It's not funny :-/ It's sad ;-;

[@avinashmg7545]

@@shindean did nolan write in DC after man of steel?

[@shindean]

@@avinashmg7545 executive producer is like saying Spielberg wrote Transfomers. Good luck on getting that Snyder cut released😁

[@tmanemaran]

yeah.. and you know who is it... i just don't understand why they need to still keep him to write and crunch out crap! they are tons of writers who could tackle MoS better and make give us the Superman that we deserve....

[@viniwije5368]

the moment when you said imagine stane being the first one to make the iron man suit and then tony makes his own to fight him, I literally cringed. thank god they didn't go with that approach.

[@Vince-tt1uj]

Yeah. The best part of Iron Man 1 and 2 was that Tony is a genius and can do in a cave what an army of scientists cant do in a lab. He created suit and what followed was governments and bad guys all going for that new weaponry.

[@JonCollinsMedia]

"What should I have done? Let them die?" "....maybe" 🤣🤣🤣

[@apenzijncool6395]

@peter&mj123 l If you look at the movie and take Zod out of it and showed everyone he had superhuman powers, there probably would have been a world divided in two sides, those sides probably would have come to a war. That war would have asked for so much more casualties than one school bus, I'm not saying it's not fu cked up, the father does have a point that humans and any living creature can't be trusted in what it's gonna do

[@apenzijncool6395]

@peter&mj123 l Ever heard of a mobile phones or roadway cameras?

[@apenzijncool6395]

@peter&mj123 l yea but if you would take a look at the old movie's, you should know that even though he has superspeed, he still can be seen moving

[@apenzijncool6395]

@peter&mj123 l you got a point about the mobile phones tho

[@idiosyncraticlawyer3400]

@@apenzijncool6395 Someone deleted their comments.

[@DeaPeaJay]

The “reverse snap” was not made by Tony, it was made by Hulk. Tony just snapped away Thanos and his army.

[@ecliptorcalrissian5014]

You know, Tony could've just used one of the stones on Thanos' army and not died. The Space Stone could teleport them all into a black hole, the Power Stone could blast them to smithereens...

[@ecliptorcalrissian5014]

@Wilder Warhol ...yeah, that's the point. He had other, non-fatal options for dealing with them.

[@Ayesha-ps5ze]

@@ecliptorcalrissian5014 ...him using any of the stones would have led him to dying. Quill, a half god, couldn't even handle one stone and you think regular human tony would survive?

[@ecliptorcalrissian5014]

@@Ayesha-ps5ze Dr. Strange isn't dead from frequent use of what turned out to contain the Time Stone, and hosting what turned out to be the Reality Stone didn't do fatal damage to Jane Foster, so one use of it might also be survivable. The Power Stone might be too much, though.

[@67namrajoshi51]

@@ecliptorcalrissian5014 dude tony is no dr strange or thanos he don't know how to use one stone he only knew about the snap

[@sputnikalgrim]

I wasn’t mad at man of steel, I really enjoy Cavill as an actor. “It could’ve been great” seems to be said of almost all the DC movies. Wonder Woman checked all the boxes, but they won’t let her be the central character so it’s all a mess. Ironman was the first Marvel masterpiece. What fallowed mostly hasn’t disappointed and everything works together. None of DCs movies work together. Beside man of steel and Wonder Woman I couldn’t give a juicy fart about any of the other DC characters. Marvel has given me a universe destroying villain that I felt bad for.

[@rudrasingh6354]

I agree with you. But think Shazam was great.

[@cameronvincent_films]

Rudra Singh I liked Shazam, too but it goes with his point of none of the movies working together. Shazam is basically opposite in tone to every other movie dc had put out at the time. Then you add the tonal inconsistency inside of Shazam itself and it feels even weirder

[@Joex51x]

no Kevin Feige type person for DC EU, they were going to try with John Jones but I am sure WB messed that up so he decided to go back to writing comics...

[@ricardo_sotorbs]

I like the DCEU movies but I agree they're a mess. The difference between the two actually stems from the studios that produce the films. Disney (early on paramount) gave Feige full creative force over marvel and aside from certain things that can't be displayed on Disney films, they aren't meddling in the product. WB on the other hand keeps interfering with DC films and have no one man behind it all. After a two part JL like Snyder envisioned he should've been appointed as the "Feige" of DC

[@DArtmanreignz]

DC tells better stand alone stories, that's why there solo hero films all performed better than any of the MCU save for Black Panther and Captain Marvel.

[@Lone432345]

Being Selfish goes against the very concept of a Hero.

[@matthewffunaro]

Nice essay, but i always felt an emotional response to the tornado scene. As someone adopted I've done the whole "You're not my father" thing. Even today I feel horrible about it. Luckily mine didn't stop from using my powers and I saved him. Actually mine is still around and I get to tell him I love him and call him Dad all the time. But I felt the pain of those words and knowing Clark couldn't take them back. But I do 100% agree that Tony drove the action vs Zod drive the decision. Never thought about it that way, great point.

[@jamescox953]

Robert made me love him as iron man. A character i was never interested in...

[@Godzilla-tu2cd]

8:07 exactly if Barry Allen aka the flash can draw on someone's face really fast right in front of him like he wasn't moving why can't Clark run over to his dad get him and comeback like nothing happened? This sacrifice is stupid

[@akshit318]

Not even considering Barry... In BvS Clark was fast enough to save Lois from falling building while he was at his father's grave(probably in Kansas)...

[@Anderson_Roger]

seriously

[@LazyGyro]

The movie COULD have made the point that Clark wasn't able to harness his power that well at that time... But obv that's not addressed lol

[@crazymanwithaplunger]

Because everyone there would notice Jonathan suddenly appearing. It's not about seeing Clark move that quickly (technically there's no indication he was as fast at this point in his life either), it's about the fact they'd all clearly see his dad practically teleport from the car to the underpass. This isn't rocket science.

[@crazymanwithaplunger]

@@davebyrd1394 you're conflating a bunch of events that occur out of sequence as being confirmed by the time of that scene of the film. You're also assuming everyone on the road was a Smallville local - considering they're on an undisclosed highway there's no reason to make this assumption. The priest IS the kid that bullied him. That's why we see those scenes back to back, to show how that kid changed. Are you suggesting that the kid who bullied him did so knowing Clark could litteraly kill him with a single punch? The suggestion in that flashback is that Pete is the only one there who knows/believes anything about Clark's abilities, and that he feels guilty being the bully's friend. Bullies can pick any reason to do what they do - in this case he wants to fight him, likely because he thinks the rumours are bullshit. Think about it, if you genuinely believed someone was strong enough to push a bus out of water, would you pick a fight with them? Fast forward to him as a Priest and everything about him has changed. I agree he knows who Clark is by that point, in fact by the time the films main events are set I'd wager there's a chance most of Smallville knows and is keeping his secret - but that's not when Jonathan Kent dies. So it's irrelevant to argue they already know because there's no evidence they do. In that scene he's 17, 18 at most as they're arguing about him going to college. By the time of the films actual setting, he's in his early 30's. 12+ years later. We're not told or shown what changed in that time. The mom is Pete's mom. She calls it an "act of God" and Martha trys to explain it away as the kids (3 of them, including Pete) not knowing what they saw. Pete is the IHOP guy. Litteraly the only town character the film directly implies knowing Clark's secret is Pete. Anything else within the town can be argued is rumour and conjecture at best. As I said though, I agree by the later time in the film, the town (or at least specific people) know and are keeping his secret. Doesn't change the death scene, especially as I said, the people at the underpass could be anyone from anywhere. And no, a heart attack wouldn't have worked fine, because it wouldn't have served the films themes in any way, shape, or form. It doesn't even mean what you think it means in the original Donner film, let alone why they did it in MoS.

[@jzi4]

One franchise embraces the source material, the other is ashamed of it, only has 2 or 3 good movies and will always compromise the characters in favor of TRYING to imitate Christopher Nolan's trilogy..... The superman I know would blow his secret identity a million times over if it meant saving a stranger, let alone his own fucking father. Lol

[@TViper2369]

This. While I haven't hated the DC movies, they aren't exactly my favorites either. I've said more than once while discussing the MCU, "the reason it's successful is they simply brought the comics to life. " Of course they take some liberties to make it work in live-action, but the spirit of the stories being told is still rooted in the comics. Even the Nolan Batman movies, while I liked them, I don't find myself wanting to watch them again as it's not really fun. The MCU embraces the sensationalism of comic book characters and their powers/abilities, where as this trilogy I felt tried to water it down. The warehouse fight scene for Batman in BvS may be my favorite live-action Batman scene of all the movies. It was the closest to sensationalizing the Batman is a true badass and why criminals actually fear him. In the Nolan series we only get the one line from Joker where he tells the mobsters why they don't gather at night anymore, because they fear the Batman. We never actually see any of these criminals fear him.

[@tmanemaran]

Agreed.... DC and WB should just killed Nolan out of DC.. we don't need Nolan's vision...it only worked just once. They want to save DC? Simple - get those guys who are doing the DC Animated Movies...at least their heart and mind are in the right place - bring the comics source material to life - simple ain't it?

[@jzi4]

@@tmanemaran nolan's batman works because batman's story is already pretty dark and can lend itself to a realistic gritty story, same reason the joker movie works. But for characters like superman?(who make up like 99.7% DC'S heroes) No..... If they want a extended universe it needs to be independent from this shit they've been pushing on us, take their time, and most importantly, GET TALENT THAT ARE ACTUALLY FANS OF THESE HEROES.

[@Rafael-rn6hn]

Agree. Man Of Steel truly seemed to care more about being epic and "cool", which is why it is convoluted, thematically inconsistent and lack a distinct personality. After watching Man Of Steel the feeling I had is that I had not really watched anything. It was only a sequence of several scenes loosely coupled together and with disjointed characters. Sure, there was Cavill as Superman and everyone did a great job, in general the fights were cool enough and effects creative. But at the end of the day, as a whole, it all rang hollow.

[@SuCKeRPunCH187]

@@Rafael-rn6hn that is all on Snyder, he doesn't care about the characters, he just wants cool action sequences. Watching an entire city get annihilated is just not interesting to watch anymore. WB just hired the wrong guy to do direct MoS and B v S and Justice League.

[@narwhalking2788]

I felt that Zod had more of a struggle and emotional breakdown than Superman in Man of Steel.

[@tonyschmitz1997]

I love both of these movies but for different reasons. I love Iron man cause it’s a good action/espionage/movie. It’s grounded in humanity with practical earthly threats. I love Man of Steel cause it is a theological study of Superman and humanities relationship with gods and the unknown.

[@brejackal]

Why change from the original he’s racing trains having fun and John dies of a heart attack doing his chores! Dead on again!

[@robertlsmith6387]

Tj kells 3rd that my friend is the right question it would've gave a better understanding of why Clark couldn't use his superpowers

[@minecraftotalwar]

Because it doesn't have the same message lol

[@mileania7287]

Anyone who loves their father wouldn't have just stood there and do nothing.

[@viagotanega9898]

Romae Davis I’ve always HATED that scene. It makes no sense and is just extremely poor writing

[@jge8144]

Also, that doesn't help him, Clark, later in the movie. Clark's never given a choice, again, to let someone die to hide himself from the world or screw his identity and reveal what he is regardless of the consequences b/c ppl r in danger.

[@blaze3976]

No, he was going to save Pa Kent but then we have this in the movie "My father believed that if the world found out who I really was, they'd reject me... out of fear. He was convinced that the world wasn't ready. What do you think?". After all those years, he still questions his decision and he comes up with the goal to save people. Character development people, gosh this thing has been around for ages and here I'm explaining the basics in writing 101

[@viagotanega9898]

Blaze I’m afraid that doesn’t excuse bad writing. Not to mention, it’s a very poor rendering of a character who is specifically not like how he has been portrayed in these films. You can’t write Superman to be this way. Maybe that works for other characters but not Superman. He’s only reacting to a situation, he’s not choosing to become a hero.

[@blaze3976]

@@viagotanega9898 how is he supposed to be? Stop confusing other with your words. You say it's bad writing, tell me which part. You tell me he is supposed to be like this, tell me what the hell is "this". Don't be a Gretta

[@sethkillebrew3178]

Hulk brought everyone back to life Ironman killed thanos’s army

[@amandadadesky5192]

My mom and I had the "save the dog or save the kid" conversation once. What it boiled down to, for her, beyond the fact that she grew her children not only in her womb but also in her heart (that last bit is an adoption metaphor), it's that her kids are of her own species. That's it. It isn't a question of how much she loves her human children versus how much she loves her furry ones. She knows herself well enough to know she cannot overcome that maternal instinct that drives her to protect her fellow humans even if she wants to. (See also: She will always choose her children over her mate, because, again, instinct.)

[@kingbeauregard]

A Superman movie that makes like altruism and heroism are bad ideas, is a fundamentally flawed movie. A good start for a great many movies is, introduce your protagonist as someone with admirable and likable traits, but in some fashion he's living wrong and/or messing up his own life. That way, the events of the movie serve to inadvertently drive the hero to fix his life. In the case of Tony Stark, he initially considered himself above basic human concerns, but his experiences forced him to connect with others, and he decided to help people with his gifts.

[@jsplit9716]

Wasn't Tony stark meant to be the worst kind of person you can imagine? He's supposed to redeem himself through heroic acts.

[@ToadstedCroaks]

Altruism and heroism *are* bad ideas, which is why the comment section keeps mentioning Reeve's superman ...who learns this first hand, but everyone glosses over that fact because "Superman hur hur". Any time you garner an action based on a set definition or code, you're wrong; and doomed to hurt others / yourself. This is the fallacy of "black and white" outlooks on life, where people see doing everything "good" as impossible to be misguided or harmful. The mere mindset that you should be entirely concerned about everyone's welfare equally, or that there are people who should be praised as heroic for singular instances, is delusional of the reality of the universe, and why this is considered entertainment ..rather than reality. There are entire psychosis around the brain being fixated on acts of pure kindness. It also entirely contradicts what you find as a "good start" of movies, since in those cases there can never be altruistic or heroic choices, only a reactive response to having conflict thrust upon them with no choice but to counter it. I don't think there's much to delve deep into in regards to the MoS movie, outside of just bad writing from people who either didn't understand the source material ...or who had to change it to fit someone's fancy. Let's not credit most of these people as being ( or trying to be ) great philosopher's or thinkers ....they're doing what gets them excited, nothing more. That leads to whatever ending it was going to, just like any fanfic.

[@salamandercalamander8921]

@@ToadstedCroaks These characters are literally known as "superheroes" so don't give us this crap about heroism being a bad idea. The entire basis of Marvel and DC is heroism.

[@kalm4th]

The other major difference in the motivating sacrifice in the two movies is that Stark played role in creating the situation where Yinsen trades his life for Stark. He was confronted by the consequences of his own actions. By contrast Clark had no role in causing the tornado. From a story perspective, the tornado is contrived and has no meaningful relationship to the plot.

[@kalm4th]

@Kim Yo Jong's Sandwich The infinity stones were not a story device intended explain the motivation of the characters in their origin story. The parallel would be the crisis on Titan that Thanos tried but failed to prevent. A tornado is a natural disaster which as a story device comes off as inherently random. The inclusion of such a happenstance event to drive character development fails to ground the character in the event that causes their change, and as a result the resulting decision does not flow from the event. He loses his father figure to a natural disaster, but does not learn any lesson from it. As a result it serves little story purpose.

[@kalm4th]

@Kim Yo Jong's Sandwich Man of Steel has five main events for Clark. He finds out he has powers, Jonathan Kent dies in the tornado, he finds the ship in Antarctica, he meets Louis in Kansas, and Zod shows up. I can see no reason that the death of Jonathan causes Clark to go to the ship in Antarctica as much as the mystery of his background. Nor does Jonathan's death bring Louis Lane to find Clark. And it certainly does not bring Zod to Earth. The best argument is that Clark is motivated to reveal himself to the Army when Zod shows up, but the more obvious cause of that was Jar El's explanation on the ship. The tornado sequence unravels Clark's arc. As a child he is heroic despite the warnings to hide his powers. Then he watches Jonathan Kent die and spends years wandering the world with no connections until Louis finds him. The sole outlier in Clark's heroism is letting his father die? A better use of the tornado thematically could be to have Clark work to help with the aftermath. Having the heroic character be willing to watch a preventable tragedy caused by a natural disaster does not, in my mind, fit with any of the themes of Superman or even just Man of Steel. If you remove Jonathan Kent entirely, the plot of Man of Steel does not change much. Clark still has powers, he is still told to hide them, but gets caught by Louis for his anonymous heroic acts. He still goes to the ship, and Zod still shows up.

[@kalm4th]

@Kim Yo Jong's Sandwich But my point was that choosing a tornado is more for spectacle, because the tornado itself is arbitrary. I'm not saying tornadoes don't happen. Just that the script was written to include a tornado over all the other tragic events that could have been chosen. The tornado could have served as a metaphor to show how people react to powers beyond their control. But that was not developed. The tornado scene was and is the only thing I didn't like about Man of Steel.

[@Willowy13]

The point of Kent dying of a heart attack was exactly to teach Clark there are things he can't prevent. Clark looking his father be taken by a freaking twister when he can run faster and blow the wind don't go in this category. Everyone is fixed in the end destruction in MOS, but the scene that drove home we weren't in Kansas anymore was Papa Kent telling his son he should leave people die to hide his secret. I was open mouthed that whole scene. As a Smallville fan, that show dealt with Clark and his powers x the Kents worry for their son. They never flat out told Clark not to use his powers and leave people to die, BUT helped him to master his powers AND advised Clark to use the powers carefully so nobody would know. You know... the whole parenting thing that parents should do. This movie goes with the school philosophy of nowadays that kids should learn by themselves. If the Kents didn't guide Clark, what if he fell with the wrong people and turns bad? Again, Smallville does it better as there is a episode in an alternate reality where Ckark is discovered by the Luthors and raised by them. Funny he later does not use his powers and allows Kent to die in the stupiest way possible. I hate MOS with my whole heart.