The Star Citizen PVP v PVE Controversy is just RIDICULOUS

[@Sarazoul]

The only mistake here is that CIG is launching Pyro without the revamped "criminal reputation" system. The crimestat system is useless. Because you can be a serial killer in SC and wash your hands clean within a few minutes like nothing happened. There needs to very long term consequences that unlawful pvp players will need to accept if they go that route. When Pyro comes however. There will be no such consequences. So griefers are going to have a field day.

[@shaneduc]

Welcome to Star “EVE” Citizen.

[@Wangchuk-Champa]

i think avoiding people will still be easy

[@Sarazoul]

Right. Tell that to people who experience station or point of interest ganking. Unless you stay in the middle of space, you'll likely get shot on sight around stations in Pyro. You underestimate how much some folks love having ruining someone else's day.

[@stephanmilius3598]

Well it is probably way to soon to judge the situation, since many mechanis of the game are still missing. But CIG is buidling a game that requires ahead thinking and lots of time investment from the player to achieve success. If those efforts can be destroyed frequently and with low effort from griefers, than those players will stop playing and supporting. And this is not a Pyro problem, that goes for Stanton too. CIG has to implement mechanics that allow only for purposeful PVP engagements. A verse with realism in so many aspects (especially economics) cannot coexist with high frequent meaningless PVP. That is the reason we have laws and law enforcement in the real world, cause nothing at the current scale would be possible with griefers on a rampage.

[@warren3174]

@@stephanmilius3598 exactly. Watch the crying when armistice zones increase in pyro soon. They will tell you it’s temporary just like the ones in Stanton. Temporary like a tollway on a road. 😂

[@stephanmilius3598]

@@warren3174 I am not in favour of magic, but if that is CIG's current skill level, then that might be the solution to enable gameplay in Pyro.

[@Evolutional]

I love how 12 years into the alpha test is still "too soon"

[@SeaRaven227]

I'm expecting a lot of purely PvP tears when the Reputation and Death of a spaceman comes online. They always seem to forget that PvE'ers are like 80% of the player base even in EvE online. Just wish they'd get there sooner than later.

[@warren3174]

@ I hope death of a spaceman gets rejected out of hand. It’s an antiquated notion that’s makes zero sense in SC now that they boast dying a thousand times. Lol

[@AJGibbs-ge2kp]

I'm a primarily PvE player, (my throttle stick is fubar'd), but I enjoy getting into the occasional fur ball with Pvapers, as it makes doing my cargo/mining/salvage interesting. My best cargo run had pirates jump me at an outpost, stayed in the bubble, trashed 5 of thier shops, killed 6, before they brought a C-2 & rammed me, all for an MSR full of tungsten lol. But the whole idea is there has to be risk to make it worthwhile, else what good is it if it's boring?

[@Aunubus69]

the problem is reputation isn't in, no player bounty isn't in for other players to bounty the pvpers, there is amazing loot you cannot get without going to Pyro, also trade routes into and out of Pyro for pve. it's not balanced and there is no point in pvping.

[@ChristianGiovannihorror]

I think there is a broader conversation to have about the rewards locked in Pyro only. I started SC with grandiose exploration expectations. Flying to an unknown system, mapping and charting new areas, and then selling that intel to other players who mine, for example. I'm fine with PvP as long as there are equally viable ways to get the same caliber rewards for completing pve content. You guys are missing the concerns expressed by pve'rs. SC was billed to be an everything game when i started playing 2 years ago. I purchased the Anvil Terrapin, with real money, for a ship that would have stealth recon abilities only to find this game play loop doesn't even exist. Locking good equipment behind pvp walls is a slap in the face to pve'rs who are also awaiting content and gameplay aspects that have yet to be delivered. Yes, some of the arguments against pvp are insane, however, I believe the outpouring of passion derives from years of broken promises than from any real perceived threat from players who enjoy pvp.

[@PaulMEdwards]

I agree with this sentiment. I'm really not at all interested in PvP, but I didn't want to take that away from those who are. CIG has stated that there will be other ways to acquire the better equipment that doesn't involve combat, but that's likely a ways off. Hopefully the reputation system, bounty hunting, and "death of a spaceman" features bring more balance.

[@hotjonmw90]

remember this is a work in progress they already talked about adding the "deeps" to area 18 which is a raid like component with the elevators to save the progress. the contested zone are just something for PVPers in the Live vers they have not forgotten pve they mostly talked all about the mission reworks and rep which is mostly going to be for PVE player they also talked about the possibility of earning rare blueprints and armor/items even ships for increasing the rep levels. its just that this is the first thing we are getting and I keep reminding people this is a prime example of you are still testing not playing yet

[@Sams911]

In the real world, there are grave consequences to committing a crime or randomly killing someone for no reason .... in video games there isn't... so unchecked PvP will paralyze the game play... I think we just need to stick with PvP zones and an entire system such as Pyro should not be a single zone

[@vik12D]

CIG sold a lot of engineer manuals to mod your own private server, so, if PvA doesn't work, that's where people will be. Here's something simple: Keep PvP out of Stanton. Pyro is for PvP, cool. Stanton doesn't let outlaws into the system, Comms Arrays can't be disabled, etc. If you want a true separation, then PvP outlaws need it applied to them as well. Pyro-PvP Stanton-PvE When this happens, then there will be a point to staying out of Pyro. Chris Roberts said PvP would be OPTIONAL, so, if you want to take it that route, without sliders, PvE servers, then there needs to be mechanics that keep outlaws in Pyro. I'd rather see working PvA but these extremes are leading to forcing people to play ways they don't want to play and CIG already sold private servers as an option until 2023. You'll just force people into private servers.

[@Mr_Beaubles]

PVA games never work. If people are wanting this game to be sea of Thieves in space, they clearly haven't played enough Sea of Thieves. OP is a simpleton, and clearly hasn't played enough of these "PVA" games he espousesto be so great. The fact is, CIG never said you HAD to pvp to enjoy all of the content from this game. They said you would be able to access the whole game whether you wanted to play PVP, or PVE, and wouldn't be locked into any one type of gameplay style or another, to be able to experience the full game. To say if a person doesn't want to PVP, they only get to experience a portion of the zones, is not how the game was sold, and for good reason. like me for example, I've been backing for over 10 years and I'm a grand admiral. So for me to just be unable to access a large portion of the game I PAYED FOR, purely because of people like OP that would rather only gank people that DONT want to fight them, rather than just those that opt-in for pvp, and therefore DO actually want to PVP, really just means people like OP cannot enjoy the game the way THEY want to unless they are able to do so at YOUR expense as well. This isn't how the game has been marketed over the last decade, and is incredibly self-centered. Also, there are only maybe a couple games that have had the PVA model, as OP has described, and actually kept their player base, 'spreadsheets in space' being really the only one, and that game's audience is tiny compared to what CIG will need to keep the AWS lights on, anyways. A couple more typical examples of why the PVA model doesn't work, are Sea of Thieves and GTA:O. Both games could tripple their player base if they had better opt-in/out pvp flagging options. I personally know 6 close friends that would play both TODAY, if they weren't that Pva griefing gank-fest model. OP, sorry. That model will doom SC. Don't be dumb.

[@Bland-79]

Star Citizen will have low sec systems and high sec systems just like Eve online. Just stop. You sound foolish.

[@SeaRaven227]

@@Bland-79 It will not. It will have a Rep system where if i work for the Pyro gangs and you attack me, your reputation with the Pyro gangs will go down, eventually you won't be able to dock without getting attacked by all the NPC's that are part of that gang. Pyro will be policed the same way Stanton is, just by pirate gangs instead of UEE navy/Corpo agents. The only place players will get any chance at attacking anyone without consequences are empty systems, if there's any. Otherwise everything will be a Reputation balancing act.

[@llMoofasall]

Dude what? Did you really just use gta online as an example of a failing pva game? The highest profit grossing game of all time is a failure? The game that still consistently breaks 100k players daily after 11 years on STEAM ALONE, and is breaking records all over the place with it's sequel trailers? That game?? (And that's not even counting fivem servers... or the fact the consoles have more players than steam because of E&E) I don't have a big opinion on the topic in this video... but that was a TERRIBLE example... and completely destroyed your own argument. You probably shouldn't be calling people dumb making stupid statements like that...

[@llMoofasall]

​@@SeaRaven227it will in fact have high and low sec systems. I don't know why you are arguing this, after they directly used those terms during citizencon with the base building presentation. Did you not watch the con? What you are describing is specifically for Pyro, which is a low sec area.

[@SeaRaven227]

@@llMoofasall I disagreed with the "just like EvE Online" part. EvE online HS bases can be attacked, SC can't, there's huge ass planetary shields or whatever. It's more similar to Star Wars Core vs Rim systems than EvE online. It's also only for bases, it's irrelevant for every other form of pvp...

[@ottodeluxe]

The problem isn't Pyro. It runs a lot deeper. The problem is sealclubbing, inside and outside Pyro. The problem is offering a rewarding (

[@TedManAte]

I understand the desire for pve sentiment. The thing is, with a game that doesn't have real risk/reward for PVP or PvE players, nearly all PVP in a game with exploration and infinite bugs is griefing to PvE players. The game needs to mature and define it's rules. What's the risk to a PvP type player hunting other players that really have nothing to offer as a reward to a pvper. We need something around rep. For example, if I have high R&R rep, and you kill me, you should lose R&R rep.

[@garrycopeland6149]

PvP is a problem for some players as much as it's a legit in game mechanic. Montoya is right. For me the biggest problem is how long it can take to do something only to have some sad murder hobo or griefer destroy hours of your work for no good reason. So as you said quality PvP is fine/great/accepted. I think though we should go deeper into the game mechanics ... so it doesn't take so long to do anything in SC. That way if you do get killed it's not so frustrating. For me it's not what you lose it's just how damn long it took to get there.

[@lostvayne9146]

time is not the problem. That is always what SC is. Less arcade. More sim. The problem currently is they do not have enough meaningful ownership and progression in the game to make the consequences matter for griefers, pirates, criminals, etc. The deterrent is not big enough. But this is simply because the game is not complete. We do not have death of a spaceman yet. Lets talk time. Imagine the ships actually costing enough that it takes a long time to get the money. Lets say you bring it to PVP. A ship that isn't a starter but one that is expensive and took you a month to save up enough money to buy. Then if you lose that ship, you never get it back. You have lost a months worth of work. Imagine you losing a rare gear that took you a long time to grind and could only be found in certain places. Imagine how PVP will change when what you lose is quite consequential to your time. That is the deterrant. you will see the vast majority of people/griefers automatically switch to basic starter ships to do PVP. Some people may gamble and grind for military ships and see how far they can go. The ones who will rule the lawless systems will be large criminal organizations who cross the threshold and are able to survive long enough in a PVP zone to produce a base and org with an army of people, military combat ships and fighters in pyro. They will be the ones who control these low sec systems. This is actually what is going to happen when what you lose actually matters. As in... you risk losing the time you spent grinding for going into PVP with expensive and rare resources where losing them means losing time. It will be like EVE. Large criminal organizations controlling large swathes of low sec systems and space while the run of the mill criminal/grifer/pirate will populate the fringes. Doing small PVP activities. Ambushing and ganging up on someone just because they can. etc Everything I said above isn't new. This is what its like with the wasteland in runescape. A lot of people will not bring in their best gear into PVP. They will go to marketplaces or trade with people for gear good enough to go in with the understanding that it will be lost. They will make money by going through sessions where they stay in the PVP zone for an extended period of time and amass loot from the people they kill. Then they escape the PVP zone to retain said loot. The deeper they go into the PVP zone, the more dangerous and the higher the reward. Because if you go deeper into the zone, the people there will have far more loot and have been in that zone longer. It will then be more dangerous because to survive that long in a PVP zone, they would need to have better gear, amass far more loot and work in gangs. Then you pray you do not run into an organization. An army of PVPers working together with fleets. But you will not see them out in the lower levels of the PVP zone. Why? because what happens in MMOs is that there will be unwritten rules that naturally occurs and at that stage, the incentives for orgs to bully the lower levels of a PVP zone is not worth it. These orgs will be fighting other orgs ruling over other low sec systems for expansion and control. It will be like EVE for them. Ultimately, those that do not want to deal with toxicity need to stay in high sec systems and in these systems, there should be extremely high risk for criminals and very low risk for you. Such as you losing your ship, thus your time will matter far less. Runescape makes this easy by just not allowing any PVP in non pvp zones. But SC wants to be more ambitious here. Human nature is working exactly like all other PVP games ive played. You'd best believe that is where all the majority of toxicity should congregate.

[@albertoferraboschi5768]

As somebody that doesn't like pvp and hates sweaty loosers that take pleasure in nothing else than ruining other people's day (not referring to all pvpers, just the worsts of them), I don't agree with having different servers/gamemodes. The direction the game is taking is fine BUT, there needs to be a strong enough deterrent for griefing in lawful systems, which is not present at the moment. It doesn't need to make it impossible to pirate in lawful systems, but it has to be extremely dangerous. Right now they basically have no consequences, and pyro most likely won't solve this since most of them love to feast on easy prays, so they will stay in Stanton, Pyro will be too risky for them too.

[@georgea5991]

Yeah, the nerfs over the last few months show that the people CIG caters to the most are their buddies the troll griefers, who spend between $75 and $300 at most for their meta cancer. You see the griefing last year when what's his name was condescendingly "ho humming" when he was watching people just get spawn r&ped when Pyro first opened? Yeah, that's the real CIG. Buy your Mole and your Arrasta for that "deep sim gameplay" if you want, just be ready for the disease that is the trolling in the name of PvP in a game with crappy leadership choices.

[@0p3r8r]

'Loosers' ?

[@albertoferraboschi5768]

@0p3r8r yeah, by that I mean those who feel like loosers in real life, and so they unleash their frustration onto other people in games, where they don't risk anything, just to feel more powerful then the others and compensate. Every game has at least a few of them.

[@bengray8686]

I refuse to give up my fun to be fodder for someone else to have fun. Nobody enjoys that. Period.

[@Eradicatorsgaming]

Then, the Stanton System is designed for you, and later Castra and Terra.

[@Sarazoul]

​​​@@Eradicatorsgaming Here is the issue. A lot People are ok with PVP if it's in the context of pirating or say a war between corporations for example. PvP in Star Citizen is not that at the moment. PvP is seal clubbing. People camping stations to kill any small fry in sight for the lols of watching a ship go boom. (Mind you, we don't even have death of a spaceman or spaceship yet, which will make this much worse) This form of PvP is toxic, As there is no point to it except intentionally ruin the fun for someone else. CIG can add their PVP for all I care but they NEED to adress the dominant form of "PvP" in the PU: Nonsensical kill on sight griefing. Also, some PVE players want to experience Pyro (and may accept risking a PvP encounter). But there is a BIG difference between between hijacked by a pirate who want my cargo (a fun PvP encounter) and some random loser wanting to blow defenseless non-combat ships for the lols. You underestimate the amount of assholes In games.

[@skullboi642]

@@Eradicatorsgaming people are fine with PVP when its in an immersive setting. But no one likes getting blown to bits the fucking milisecond they get farted out the space butthole in pyro. My first jump literally got ruined exactly like that because there was a squad of players just merking everyone who exited the wormhole instantly. its those "pvpers" i hate. where you just kill to kill with no real benefit in doing so other than to be a dick and a hemorrhoid to that random player

[@Mr.Universe]

@@Sarazoul cry more

[@Sarazoul]

@@Mr.Universe this mentality is exactly why people want PVE servers. Who wants to play with immature morrons like you?

[@Ryecrash617]

I don’t engage in PVP and in general, I try to avoid combat all together. With that said, I love the fact that it’s in the game and that it’s not consensual. I love the chaos and having to expect the unexpected. It makes the game and the ‘verse as a whole more interesting. One of my favorite Star Citizen memories was being chased by a player bounty hunter because I accidentally pad rammed a player at Port Olisar. He chased me for half an hour, I ended up loosing my cargo (and my life) and it is still the first story I tell people that are interested in trying Star Citizen.

[@flightsimulatoradventures7246]

The issue no one is talking about is that pvp does not mean kill on sight and get nothing out of it. I’m A miner, salvage space trucker and guess what. I have only been found once by npc or player because I’m careful. PvP needs to mean interact with players. If I’m solo in a vulture I know I can’t fight if player shows up with gunship, so hail me and let’s make a deal. Let’s not ruin the 2 hours a week if that I have to play because you wanted to see a fire ball, if that’s you then you are the problem everyone is complaining about.

[@Oh10patriot]

here is something simple. you should not be able to sit outside the jump and wipe out ships as they arrive, which was the initial complaint that i herd. Pvp is all over in pyro, that's fine, but if you cant get in to pyro because people are waiting to fuck with you as soon as you exit the gate, then its bullshit.

[@ligmasphere901]

Its a mind set where some people have a visceral reaction to any kind of conflict. Probably stems from the lack of a strong father figure at an early age 💀

[@Moobeus]

My issue is what I call the “state of nature” issue. Because there is no real punishment for murder in this game, pretty much only upside, even people who want to be morally good and not kill people nearly always attack anyone they come across in the verse on sight out of fear the other will do the same to them. As it stands it’s impossible to have a peaceful interaction with a random person in this game. There needs to be some way to mark yourself as peaceful and concequences for instigating violence while marked as peaceful. My idea is that after you die you can go to a police station and “report” the crime, that way if u and ur buddy are messing around you can just not report them. Once someone is reported for violating their peaceful tag they should be blacklisted from non pirate stations and shops for a period of time. Having actual big consequences will make people feel safer interacting with other people, and not feel like they have to kill them out of self preservation.

[@brianmolele7264]

I borrowed Pleiades from NASA for the weekend, the game still crashed.

[@pjdaprinz]

Players could organize huge safety convoys to help people pass to Pyro, but that would be a shit show of a FPS drop once all the ships switch servers at the same time. Otherwise, if they trickle in it would be just shooting fish in a barrel. Until servers can handle organized operations like this I would suggest just making jump point areas armistice zones to allow people to enter.

[@1aatlas]

guys ganking isnt just killing someone.... Ganked, Gang killed, Zerged... you know that meme with the girl on the couch .... ganked.

[@Spacepollo7548]

I like both pve and pvp but mainly pve I love going into pyro and get the lil action that the pve doesn't have, it's the best experience for me since I started playing the game

[@TommyRushing]

It's pretty simple. CIG has a responsibility to address these "problems". They need to explicitly say "this is how the game will be get over it" so we can move on.

[@SeaRaven227]

They kinda did multiple times, for some reason the SC "youtubers" keep ignoring their answers in favour of backing whichever side they're on in the PvE/PvP conflicts. It will all be Rep based, commiting crimes in "x" jurisdiction will lower your rep with them, get low enough, they'll attack you and refuse your docking/landing requests. It will be the same in Pyro, but gang related instead of Advocacy/UEE/Corpo based like Stanton. Mess with someone helping the Overlords or Xenothreat gangs? They'll kill you when they see you, same as the cops. They keep saying that in SC, you're the little guy, you won't get to make your own law anywhere, you ain't the hero in that story, no matter how big your org is.

[@ackack47]

If they don't want to PvP after entering Pyro, cant you just not engage in combat? Still can't use guns in NAV mode. Just stay in NAV mode and go fast until you're ready to QT.

[@Frank-costanza]

"90% of interactions are pve" " if you want a pve server get out of here" the math ain't mathing to support your position.

[@gogogadgetGlock]

I agree with you, however, they locked all good components behind a PVP wall via contested zones. I don't care because I like PVP but that's a lil unfair for PVE only people.

[@machoalright]

Now CIG needs to roll back this travel time as well. its now way too short. 2 or 3 min, its absurd really.

[@TheGhostryder88]

Wait… so the only place you aren’t SAFE is the contested zones?!? That’s it?!?

[@Eradicatorsgaming]

No, you aren't safe anywhere in Pyro.

[@ottodeluxe]

@@Eradicatorsgaming Actually, you aren't safe anywhere, not even your own private persistent hangar. People can and will hijack your hangar elevator, and just kill you, since the hangars aren't armistice. And if players don't, the hangar itself might :P

[@tofu_tofuu]

all we've heard for YEARS is how Pyro is lawless and it's gonna be good because then pvp will have their zone. And now that it's here and it's nothing but space dads whining about getting got. It doesn't matter that you are just a miner, trader, etc you go into a open pvp area you expect it to happen. The only valid argument I've seen during this whole Pyro drama is CIG locking end game gear into a Tarkov like extraction shooter and CIG not releasing Pyro with the rep system.

[@Ogata123]

Pva is pvp. The issue is it wasnt really sold initially as pvp, there were goofy talks of sliders and less goofy private servers. So the people who cant recognize SC is no longer what was sold dont want to give it up.

[@danieldorn6516]

Sorry, strongly disagree. We just have to acknowledge, that most players (i'd say around 90%) give a sh*t about PVP. If CIG does not adress this issue, SC will fail. PVP players are too few to sustain the ongoing development of this huge game. Sorry.

[@mombli]

Life is hard, and pyro is PvP that’s a fact. If you want to travel around pyro, you will need to contract security, and with this you will create gameplay for personal security players. See you in the vers.

[@ROrneli]

This game has tons of systems to protect.players from unwanted pvp like bounties , law system , etc.. The game is not a pvp.game but a PVA game.. most likely most interactions with other players will be favorable but there will be cases where it won't and you have to be ready to react . I think most people are mad at pvp because it is the only challenging part of the game right now. When AI gets polished and becomes a potential challenge ad much ad a player then what ? Then people will cry the game is too hard

[@georgea5991]

All someone has to do is get past the Pyro gate. Ffs, the system is huge, and not everybody (just like in Stanton) are hardcore PvP'ers... Seriously, if you go to a planet or in the middle of nowhere, who tf is going to find you?

[@ddavis5442]

The only thing I think has merit is that your forced to pvp to get meta stuff. And it's soooo freaking easy to fix, keep stuff in shops till crafting comes OR make a rep based mission in stanton. Erad they have made it so you HAVE to PVP or enter pvp area to get good gear, its a crap way for CIG to force more people into the Pyro System. Also it will make some quit who now think they are forced into PVP to get meta gear when they don't like that type of gameplay. CIG has always said "Do anything you want" so I can see people being pissed when the only reason to grind (to get meta gear) is gated through the Pyro System and PVP.

[@kentyannayon3741]

The absolute amount of salt on global now that it's all backers is concerning. Pyro is Pyro, it's name sounds dangerous, it is dangerous. If someone decides to start shooting, so be it, Imma shoot them back, hopefully more accurately. When we get Terra, people will very likely test the security response, but that's supposed to be the safe system. It seems Stanton has already gotten really safe with the PvP focused players going to Pyro in the EPTU. Essentially, it seems to be working. I'm hoping we'll get a future event where players can choose to work for a Stanton faction or a Pyro faction and compete to complete a goal. It'd be silly not to have a PvP focused event in the near future utilizing the jump point and reasons to engage with each other.

[@hirofortis]

the only thing i disagree on is and its not that pyro is pvp, its if the only place to get certain materials is pyro, then by necessity, you are forcing people into pvp that say want to mine. So its going to be interesting to say the least.

[@PaulMEdwards]

Yep, and currently the best components are locked behind a PvP zone.

[@hirofortis]

@@PaulMEdwards I would be fine if they put pvp variants and gave faction opportunities to get things other ways. wouldn't care about the pvp at all if that was the case.

[@errgoth]

So.. a whole system, 12 years in the making, just for PvP'ers? I don't think so. It's not just about PvP, its' about the gankers. Most that are so lovingly liking just shooting everything they see are mostly spermsuit boys. CIG is making Pyro also for roleplay/PvE. PvP sure. PvP is fine. But without game rules it will not work. "lawless" is a childish illusion that does not exist.

[@USS_Daedalus]

Once the Law System are in PVP will be harder.

[@markus.-frank.kumitsch6]

First of all, telling any backer to leave is not a service to the project in the first place. Secondly You forget those Backers also pledged for a game and the one currently developed does look and feel like nothing CIG promised in 2012 ongoing. Then they additional hide stuff in the PVP area of the game and You consider PVE(PVPVA) Players as expendable in regards to game content. This is not how it should be nor is it as promised at the GDC or later. Never was there a word that the PVP areas are total without consequence's, that high end gear gets hidden in PVP areas as only available due PVP. So spare Your "Fuck off if You don't like it !" as PvE Players could tell the same in regards to the Griefers. **As PVP is commonly understood as a contest between 2 players You already fail to see the difference of Griefing and PvP players and talk the same shit as everyone else.** **Therefore You and other Streamers make it an PvP versus PvE discussion whereas it is an Griefer issue that is unattained by CIG.** And sad as it is CIGs might only change their stance regarding the anti Griefer rules after someone cracked and did something that shatters the companies believe in being unconditional being loved and they see the reality of how dangerous a **Hype** that swings to hate can be.

[@corwyncorey3703]

There is no "PVP" area, despite what Erad says. Also no safe areas. The goodies that give better results are in the higher risk areas. But i've been killed by asshats just landing in a station in Stanton. Like *inside my hangar as I land.* Sadly for now, that isn't a thing that will be dealt with. There is no security yet. Yet is the operative word. All of that said, Nothing is "hidden in th PVP areas" since *every place not in armistice is PVP, so ALL loot is in PVP areas.* As to "Griefers" I am pretty sure CIG's definition isn't the same as almost every person using that word. Murderhobos and asshats are not griefers. People that do stuff like pad ramming are... but mostly because of their methods. Simply being a murderhobo means put a bounty on em, and get them killed back. I do issh the prison stuff as moreeee of a deterrent, as it is *yawn* level easy to get out... but that's another topic.

[@AaronT-TX]

Bugs! They are my issue. Alpha of course, but still seeing bugs I was seeing in 3.2.

[@Jaxxie_B]

You need both PvP and PvE. Both should play off of each other. People who say, "If you dont like PvP, then dont go to pyro," is missing the point. Currently, PvP as a whole is free of consequences and rewards. I think no one can argue with that. What we currently have is seal clubbing. We do not need PVE servers. We need fair game mechanics. If your only argument is that you SHOULD fly a bigger ship with friends to fight against PvP, then you've totally missed the point, especially when the majority of the player base want a achieveable solo experience. People are exhausting, and not everyone wants to group up everytime they want to play. So you also need solo and group content, which we do have. What we need is a rewarding AND punishing reputation system. That alone would tie PvP and PvE together while discouraging seal clubbing and encouraging high quality PvP.

[@James-sg]

You're right about the whiners, saw someone complaining about "griefers" "griefing" in the contested zone in the PTU, lol

[@warren3174]

There can be no argument in these zones and it makes such a difference. LOL

[@BC-vv3ot]

What about ganging up on an aurora?

[@steellegacy555]

No one likes getting blown up, I don’t like getting blown up… but if I get blown up in pyro it’s my own fault because it’s a lawless system.

[@BC-vv3ot]

@@steellegacy555 lawless does not mean a lack of consequence

[@Eradicatorsgaming]

Actually, it does, if you don't have the means to retaliate (org that backs you up or ships that can make you prevail)

[@5pu7nik]

Pyro is a Nul-Sec system, if you don't like it stay in stanton or go play ED solo!

[@KhalidAlawaji]

PvE Griefing,good point ! CIG can do much skilled NPC to let you be better and do cargo\industrial runs with escort

[@brianchristopher8843]

I keep hearing people complain about griefers but ive been playing daily for months on us servers during primetime and have been able to come and go and do as i please everywhere. How are all these people playing in a way that they are just getting killed none stop? Maybe its because i come from wormholes in eve online. Perhaps people just assume they can do stuff with unknown people on grid with them and they proceed to derp around and then cry when they learn otherwise.

[@texnorthman]

I think PvE focused players are pissed for two reasons: Firstly, Stanton is not, and never has been, free of ganking. This will only get worse as player counts increase, so there is no PvP free zone apart from armastice zones. Secondly, there was supposed to be some method to the madness of Pyro. There currently is not, it is simply a free for all shoot on sight system, which is not the least bit believable or immersive. Sitting around at outposts shooting people as they are stuck to terminal interfaces is not good gameplay, not for PvE'ers and not for PvP'ers. The only people who enjoy this are the same people who spent time in Elite Dangerous flying around the Engineers landing zones griefing new players in starter ships before those players had figured out they need to switch to Solo mode. Sealclubbing is bad for all online games, and if CIG aren't able to find effective ways to disincentivise it they will be loosing a large portion of their potential community. PvP'ers like to talk about risk vs reward, but there is no risk on the side of a sealclubber, they make sure of that by only attacking those that cannot defend themselves. Why should anyone, PvE or PvP focused, celebrate that? The forums are on fire because CIG dropped this new patch with none of the systems (rep, criminality, functional NPC security responses) needed to make it work. Edit: To add, Star Citizen was sold as a game that would have private servers. This was not pitched as a full loot survival PvP MMO. It still isn't, although the last couple of years of developement have been steadily going in that direction. Stating that people who are looking for a PvE only experience should go play something else is incredibly disingenious.

[@KD-_-]

Too bad so sad. This will never be Elite Total Safety

[@texnorthman]

@@KD-_- - Fair enough, CIG should refund everyone who bought the game on that premise then.

[@KD-_-]

@texnorthman nah

[@fresetu]

@@KD-_- Sure. It's called false advertising.

[@KD-_-]

Gl with that lmao ​@@fresetu

[@z4t3k21]

Non consensual PVP is griefing.. that's why people don't like it.

[@Mr.Universe]

it doesn't have to be consensual lol am I just supposed to ask to pirate your cargo? do you not realize how silly that sounds? hey sir...do you mind if I rob you LMFAO go play something else dude.

[@sbdyson]

I don't want to PvP. So I won't go to Pyro unless I have overwhelming force. It's really that easy. I'm actually very glad for Pyro because the pvpers and gankers will go there instead of cruising Stanton looking for my Reclaimer.

[@scottgust9709]

Cig wants it all, they made promises of pvp sliders for pve players they promised npc crews and blades and then all the mmo loving pvp peeps tried to make the game all about them ...well news flash 50% of backers are for solo/pve gameplay...so SC will never be an exclusive pvp/mmo

[@davidmorton6406]

if 90% of the players in SC are PVE'ers pve'ing, why is anyone at all crying?... legit question. Like is this how much noise someone makes for the 1 time a year they die randomly to someone else.....? Last time i got ganked prospect mining was like 2020... Who actually cares what anyone whos throwing a temper tantrum has to say....

Get in a corp. EVE worked great because of corp support outside of safe areas.

[@justinp9170]

As someone whose only experience in the game is staying around Area 18 and doing a handful of deliveries, I've already had it in my mind that if I want to experience Pyro one day I need to be somewhat proficient in PvP. I think some players feel as if a portion of the game is off limits to them because of Pyro's strong emphasis on PvP. They gotta accept the fact that they must be willing to play ball lol. The ability to directly choose PvE or PvP is essentially what some players want but that's simply not the style of gameplay that's being presented. It's supposed to be a persistent world where everything and everyone interacts in some way (both positive and negative) just like real life, but in space lol. I don't think I've even reached 20 hours in this game and figured that part out. Probably spent more time trying to figure out how to run the game without it hard crashing my PC 🤣

[@JunkFilter]

PvE players before Pyro, "PVPERs NEED THEIR OWN PLACE TO GO!" PvE players after Pyro, "WHY ARE YOU KILLING ME IN THE PVP ZONES!?"

[@gorganhorn6872]

@@JunkFilter that’s complete and utter BS. What do you call a PvE player that is forced to defend themselves against non consensual forced PvP interactions? Answer: A PvP player. There is no such thing as PvPvPvE. If there is open PvP, ITS ALL PVP. CIG must have dedicated PvE servers or Star Citizen will fail commercially upon release.

[@riosasin3086]

That was years of this alpha, and they still get funding, you are the one BS here, What they failed is to make Stanton safer after Pyro

[@Ogata123]

They took things out of the pve zones to lock them into the pvp zones

[@riosasin3086]

@@Ogata123 most of those things is for gain some niche in fighting anyway, PVE even bounty NPC you don't need those to do any mission, also if you really want those you can buy them from a pvp player that was intended way for pvp player making money

[@gorganhorn6872]

@@riosasin3086 BS. Who the hell are you to say what PvE players need? Do you see how stupid it is that Cutting Edge Grade A Military Equipment is locked in some run down gang infested janky PvP death match map? Its utter nonsensical garbage. CIG's current direction will doom Star Citizen. PVE Players are LEGION, and we are starting to wake up and see what this crap show game is devolving into. If CIG doesn't reverse course, PVE players will not engage and SC will be one step closer to an EPIC Commercial MMO FAIL.

[@Wangchuk-Champa]

you got pissed so quick lol

[@warren3174]

The Bob's want to see the pretty new content too. Telling people to not go somewhere or to play a different game is what ruins all MMOs. Unfortunately just like Stanton , temporary armistice zones will happen in Pyro after CIG sees no one is doing missions at all. PVE players are over 90% backers. Telling them to not play HAHAHAHA wont fly. You're getting nerfs in the sandbox as they keep crying. I'd like to take this moment to cry about the number one griefer I encounter in Pyro.....the Server.

[@hirofortis]

as a primarily pve player, I understand what you are saying, but also, if you make the game where the only place to get some materials is in pvp, such as ice, then you have effectively required people to pvp to craft which is a huge part of the game coming. Just saying if they are gonna do this, then don't have required materials only in a pvp area.

[@KD-_-]

You're right RuneScape is dogshit because I can't go to the wildly with an invulnerability to players toggle

[@PaulMEdwards]

​@@hirofortis I believe CIG expects some players to take the risk to acquire the materials, then sell at least some to other players for profit. That's putting a lot of faith in players willing to do the activities on both ends of that transaction. We shall see how things go. Certainly if they don't go the way CIG wants, CIG will make appropriate changes.

[@hirofortis]

@@PaulMEdwards I agree, that's probably what they are thinking. Sadly I have never seen it happen that way in practice. And then you get the question about kingpen style play. At some point it becomes a huge disincentive. We will see how it goes.

[@0p3r8r]

You know you can avoid pvp without having to cry. Whiny kids are going to ruin this game if they are listened to by the Devs, like the ridiculousness of sniper glint.

[@RichGallant]

Actually, you have it wrong Pyro is not a PVP server Pyro and Stanton is not a PVE server. They are just to different levels of controlling entities. The issue is the same, the NPC environment can not do it's job. Some lame player camping a mission location is not PVP it is the literal definition of griefing. Should PVP be higher in Pyro sure,but your REP is supposed limit where you can go due to NPC interaction but it does not work. It is my hope Pyro will be the test bed to get it working, if not all the effort in generating missions and all those beautiful locations is literally wasted time. No one will ever visit them or do the missions, until the "PVP" crowd get's bored and goes back to Stanton. A true PVP server only needs 1 planet with a few basic locations, no missions, 2 or 3 spawn locations around that planet and that is it. The bulk type of PVP'r s that currently are currently inPyro need nothing more. PVP was always going to part of Star Citizen but a lot of what we have now that is claimed as PVP is just low level ganking for the sake of ruining someone day. High player counts have just made it worse.

[@riosasin3086]

Pyro is PVP no argument but Stanton should be safer and CIG fail that because not all PVP players like challenges same level some just want to prey on PVE players and those MF should be in jail without missions for an early way out after a PVP in Stanton, when you jump out from the jump point, you should be in a random location in at least a few AU away from the jump point; like poop in a hole 100 km above ground never know where it will land; when you need to get in the jump point that when you need to hire an escort from PVP player

[@realmwatters2977]

Try playing Eve Online you go into Low sec or Null Sec you go there you good as dead!

[@BC-vv3ot]

Is it lame to gang up on an aurora?

[@Eradicatorsgaming]

It is.

[@BC-vv3ot]

@ I saw a video of two guys in connies absolutely destroy an aurora without mercy in pyro. I got serious pushback in their comments section and wanted to poll other people.

[@ligmasphere901]

That's on the aurora pilot. Thats like a camper not bringing a gun and blaming a bear that mauls them.

[@BC-vv3ot]

@@ligmasphere901 the aurora was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don’t think he picked a fight. The connies were attacking everything they came across in the video. The aurora was white on their screen anyway. Not red.

[@F7Abyss]

Preach brother! I wish more ppl looked at things the way you do!!

[@gorganhorn6872]

PvE players are going to complain until we get dedicated servers free from PvP. It’s really that simple otherwise we’ll walk away from this project. PvE players are by far the largest demo for this type of game. PvE players power the most mega successful MMOs in the world. CIG you’ve been warned.

[@KD-_-]

You'll never get that and you won't quit the game over it. Deal with it. Go play Elite Complete Safety

[@Sypheara]

Walk away then, bob. My game will feel better if your whining isn't in global chat.

[@Milkysituati0n]

@@Syphearaf12 dork

[@gorganhorn6872]

@@Sypheara You’re nothing. It’s CIG that will determine whether we the PvE legion abandon ship. PVE SERVERS ARE MANDATORY If CIG doesn’t pivot, PvE players will not engage… good luck on those server costs 🤣

[@Sypheara]

@@gorganhorn6872 CIG are never giving you PVE servers, chris himself has said that multiple times. They didnt make server meshing to give you cringey cope cages for the easily triggered. So you can continue to cry and cope in Stanton, where you belong.

[@Sypheara]

Bobs stay in stanton, or deal with your skill issue.

[@gergenskits3940]

Just like you are saying, there is PVP, and then there is Ganking or Griefing, General Assholery. Aside from some people being psychotic assholes who don't know where the line is between legit PVP and just being a dick or a bully, the REAL problem is CIG does not seem to understand economics. maybe it has gotten better recently, but, last I checked, payouts from the mission board were so high that a cargo trader could not afford to hire an escort. because (suppose I'm a fighter pilot, a potential cargo escort) I can make more doing ERT bounties than he can make cargo trading. so most definitely, he can't afford to hire me for about 10% of his net. which is where it SHOULD BE. Realistically, and industrialist (mining, cargb, salvager, etc,) should be hiring about 3 ships for escort, and that should cost about 30% of his profits. landing fees, taxes, insurance, other money sinks, should eat up about 20%, leaving him about 50% of gross profits as net profits. and industrialists SHOULD make a LOT MORE than the average fighter pilot. (so that GOOD fighter pilots can make considerably more, but still be affordable to hire) for one thing, the industrialist generally has a LOT more invested into a ship than the typical fighter ship. and the Cargo Pilot especially is risking a lot more in cargo than any other player, I think. BUT the commies at CIG want everyone to make about the same, so the economy won't work. It CAN'T.

[@snaggletoof1927]

Are people seriously going to whine about encountering PvP combat.... in a zone specifically designed FOR PvP?

[@krysb81]

Yes they are lol. Wait till Terra comes online and ppl whine cause there is no pvp

[@scottgust9709]

its not pvp gameplay when your one shotted by griefers. zero fun in it

[@CptFugu]

I suggest that perhaps you should just jump over topics that trigger your emotions. If you can't discuss it without getting worked up just leave it for someone else. You should take a step back from this. Even Montoya sounds more reasonable than you on this. That a low bar, bro.

[@KD-_-]

Lmao cope

[@gabzsy4924]

Dude, everyone is entitled to emotions and he wasn't even really worked up in this video. You want to watch a youtuber or an AI bot? Weird comment.

[@Sarazoul]

​​@@gabzsy4924funny how you say that, but you're being an hypocrite by not accepting the OP's own feelings and emotions? If you want an eco-chamber of thoughts, the internet ain't the place mate. Not everyone will be in agreement. Deal with it. (or follow your own advice. Talk to an AI that will always agree and be nice to you.).

[@Slay0lot]

PVE is so boring, 12 years of total boredom. AI is not delivering. The higher the risk, the higher the reward. PVP will bring new levels of excitement and unpredictability. It will also give CIG the chance to hash out the FPS, Ship, Vehicle and EVA combat and maybe just maybe make it better.

[@frankindabank]

Why complaining about PvP or anything if elevators and bugs still can hinder you to reach your ship in the first place? This should be adressed by any content creator in any of their vids at least with one sentence. So CIG knows this is what has to work in year 10+ of development. If they cannot make it work they need to replace elevators with teleporters or something. This has to work. People need to reliably being able to get to their ship and take off when they log in.

[@johnnykaram881]

Well said

[@zerosense8552]

I don't agree with you. The dedicated PvP areas are the Contested zones. And sitting outside the range of the turrets in a Polaris to destroy landed helpless ships ist Not PvP. A real PvP Player looks for an Challenge. And Killing everyone ON sight has No gameplay meaning. And lawless Like Pyro does Not mean Anarchie. If I would kill someone of the Guys of Alcapone, what will Happen? I would be almost dead, Not because of the law. The Gang will kill me. And that ist the Problem in the current state of Pyro. Reputation ist missing. The People of Prosperity should hunt everyone who makes trubble in there settlement or who threatens someone who has a good Rep with them.

[@Arystanbek98]

I died more times to bots than players and to lags than bots tbh

[@ethancampbell2422]

Thing is, the majority of the OG backers backed a PvE game with some PvP, with 90% NPCs, and when the debate first appeared, the promise of private servers and a PvP slider, not a game centered around PvP and the need to be part of the largest org, while constantly active. We want something akin to OG SWG or WoW. Well, what I want is a single player Privateer successor but hey, Star Citizen will have to do. Oh and Erad, goodbye, I don't have time for elitist pieces of shit who tell me to go play something else because I want the game to be closer to what I was sold.

[@saintgordon338]

You waited 6+ Yeas for Pyro...just dont go there.... maybe you want to rethink this...

[@KD-_-]

@@saintgordon338 nah

[@BernhardMarchhart]

PVP is a pest in every MMO. A verey smal group of loud griefers think they have the right to ruin the majoritys game. Oh and yout argument if players dont like PVP get out here is a death sentence for the game, SC hasn't any chance to survive financially with the small PVP group. And by the way if you are realy want PVP, why are you shooting sitting ducks in fat clunky industrial ships with no chance to fight or escape. No you don't want PVP you just want to ruin someone's game experience. Give us the PVP button from WOW and we are al happy. PvPer can fight against other PVPer and the majority of players will have a good game experience without the fear of grieving. Make some PVP Zones like JT, Rappel, or the asteroids around Yela. If you go in you are marked as PVP and a 5 min timer when you got out.

[@kristlynbrianne4813]

another great video

[@revengexmoon2087]

All free fly events must start in Pyro. Let them learn early.

[@Akram_Alkhateeb]

the " you dont like it, dont play it" and "Pyro is PvP, you dont like it stay in stanton" are the two dumbest arguments anyone can ever make. do better. now that's been said, there is a thin line between PvP and griefing... here are examples: 1- someone camping stations, shooting incoming and outgoing traffic and blowing up ships on pads ----> that's greifing NOT PvP (station MUST have security to prevent that ---> gang reputation system must be implemented) 2- someone going around on POI just blowing parked ships for no reason, not even scan for goods or have genuine piracy interest ----> greifing NOT PvP 3- intercepting a haulers/miners, taking the cargo and leave or kill -----> PvP NOT greifing 4- camping contested zone ----> PvP NOT greifing 5- Piracy in any form -----> PvP NOT greifing. 6- Camping jump gates to blow up ships for no reason (not piracy, not stealing goods, not bounty hunting ...etc.) just pure gangking -----> greifing NOT PvP The problem with most people is NOT the PvP in itself... it is the griefers who have nothing better to do but to act like assholes.

[@Eradicatorsgaming]

lol do better than the truth? That's hard... yep. dont like it? GTFO , I double down :)

[@Akram_Alkhateeb]

@@Eradicatorsgaming do better as in be an adult and not use childish arguments.

[@warren3174]

@@Eradicatorsgaming This is idiotic. You're telling over 90% of the backers of SC to stop playing. You'd be stopping as well if you got your way with this notion. The same thing happened in Stanton. The same dumb shit statement was said. The solution was armistice zones (temporary) around all POIs. Telling people to play something else just because you don't agree is idiotic like the OP said. This is ALL going to end with armistice zones everywhere in Pyro because CIG will see no one will play the missions. Then the whiners will be those crying about armistice zones in Pyro.

[@warren3174]

LOL "stay in Stanton" where they've been doing this same thing the whole time......remember armistice zones were temporary to calm it all down. Guess what will come to Pyro soon enough.

[@hirofortis]

so well said.

[@Bland-79]

A PvE servers will destroy the gameplay for pirates and mercenary orgs.

[@urosvodovnik4986]

Omg enough with with these crybabies from both pvp and PvE stoooop😂 game will be open to do whatever player wants ....just a fact PvE is good pvp is good let me clarify ...when pve player crybabie takes illegal mission and complete it it generates pvp mission simple .....ofc you can go explore the universe but be prepared ....you want to take pictures go ahead but secure the area first see if it is safe it's like real life you go on a trip you are careful aren't you so stoooooop being crybabies it's not single player game

[@Stakar0gord]

It seems Erad has been on a bit of rant of late (I agree with this one). :)

[@Zach2Wheels]

I never got bothered at the gate.... Stream snipers maybe?

[@g8trdone]

PVP is fun! blowing up ships on the ground isn't PVP. PVP is fun! Loading 31 buckets of waste, getting it to the elevator in Craptown, and getting shot in the back before you hit the button isn't PVP. What's going to fix the ganking is locations actually defending their business. The turrets at these outposts should be lighting shit up and the spawn closets should be glowing while they get their ground under their control.

[@neziki3l]

skill issues

[@quarkedupphoton236]

I can see various POVs however I'm supportive of PvA everywhere. In Pyro, a player needs to make money which will take a combo of PvE and PvP. It's a big system and risk is a part of the game.

[@quarkedupphoton236]

Oh yeah, in EPTU we get 15 mil use to fly around. Once Live happens and the wipe, everyone will need money to keep their ships going. The dynamics will change.

[@docliberteamsstudio7406]

pas de drama , on ne fait que s'exprimer. désabo de tes chaines , bonne route a toi

[@Zethez]

PVE content is continually interrupted by PVP in Stanton. Citizens have waited for approximately 12 years for Pyro and the players that don't wish to participated in combat citizen are told, sorry go back to Stanton.

[@arrclyde4325]

Oh yes, the eradicator. You should be better than this. As you have said, you are suppose to be a role model. With that attitude you'll some screaming 12 year olds play Rust all day and don't know what an actually good role model is. This rant about a game is pathetic. And i know damn well how hatd parenting is. You Newbie have to come to my level first. My kid is turning 24 soon and has a lot more common sense than you have. If you are not worried about having to spend less time in SC with fun and can catch up on hours of gametime lost in a few minutes, i knlw who is doing the parenting, and who is not. You should be careful what you post publically, because it all falls back to you. I just remembered that you celebrated the blood and gore before CIG tuned it down. Speaking of rolemodel. So yes, some people are right: Montoya is a lot more reasonable than you are. And obviously more mature.

[@hamitron]

The big reason i couldn't get hyped for elite as an eve online player, was that option to opt-out. The carebears better leave now with the complaining and not ruin the vision of star citizen..... Or I'll get angry 🤬

[@warren3174]

The vision of SC isn't a murder sandbox. The backers are 90% carebear. You're gonna get THEIR vision. Remember in Stanton armistice zones around poi's were temporary because of this because no one was doing missions. What do you think happens when 90% backers dont do missions in pyro? LOL

[@hamitron]

@@warren3174 I am a mostly industrial player in games and don't want a "murder sandbox". As with eve online, you can have reasonably peaceful gameplay without forcing no use of weapons. Safer areas have stronger NPC enforcement and other in game penalties to discourage killing or harming. Players then make choices on if it is worth carrying out that action.

[@warren3174]

@ I agree. I’m all pve until I can’t be. Pyro forced me to load the A2 with a ballista and camp the camper. lol it’s fun tho. But everyone should find their way in SC and some areas in Pyro I feel will get a nerf of armistice just like they had to do at habs during evo.

[@hamitron]

@@warren3174 I'm still hoping going forward, we may even get armistice zones removed when servers run well and there is enough NPC presence to enforce rules. I do have doubts it will ever happen though.

[@lostvayne9146]

SEETHE!