The Terrifying Reality Of Our Collapsing Population - Stephen J. Shaw

[@ChrisWillx]

Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than KZbin by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:17 Stephen’s Motivations for Studying Population Collapse 05:04 Whatever Happened to the Population ‘Bomb?’ 11:06 The Deeply Concerning Birth Rate of Western Nations 19:18 Do Women Want to Have Children? 36:07 Do Men Want to Have Children? 44:08 Are Finances Getting in the Way? 56:06 Is it our Moral Imperative to Have Children? 1:02:02 Why Industrialisation Correlates with Declining Birth Rates 1:09:22 Impact of Declining Birth Rates on the Economy 1:17:00 How Nations Can Improve Birth Rates 1:23:19 Where to Find Stephen

[@michaelmonaghan6599]

Chris! you need to make babies!

[@octopus4925]

@@michaelmonaghan6599 hahaha

[@GuidetteExpert]

Women also make smarter decisions later age when choosing a partner that knows how to raise a family. Specialy when their educated, with a financial stability. We also now live longer and have more time. Other variables like dating apps, social media, international dating are kind of solving some of the problem. 80% modern day people found their partner online.

[@mrsanthonybridgerton1747]

@@michaelmonaghan6599 our Chris needs to settle down and then make babies. I believe that is the best way forward if you have listened to his previous podcasts 😁

[@heidi22209]

There is forced birth in AMERICA. How are the numbers looking on that? It wasn't a coincidence SUPREME COURT, passed a ban on abortion. The US is already working for more Boots on the ground. Unfortunately they will not be with willing or able women or men, who can create lots of single mothers.

[@SteveLinGuitar]

I have a friend that I’ve known since middle school. He had his kid at 22. At the time, we all thought he was crazy. We were the same age, and while we were busy partying, he was changing diapers. I certainly thought he was missing out. But fast forward. At 41, his kid is in college. He is healthy and full of energy. I told my friend, “You’re done.” What I meant was that the daily and weekly routines of school drop off, after school activities, were all behind him. That is the freedom that society never taught us, that if you could have kids sooner, you get more years with them, that more of that time is in your youth and better health. Whatever “freedom” you have in your early 20s as a single person pales in comparison to the kind of “freedom” you have when you’re in your mid-40s, when your kids are grown and you still have good health.

[@hannanatalisa3282]

Agree. I'm going to be 40 when my first child is 20 💞.

[@MongooseTacticool]

​@@kc6810 According to this data, it is ending and quite soon.

[@rohilthomson]

@@kc6810 it all depends on your way of thinking. If you believe children are a burden then obviously you would be "saddled" with taking care of your kids and grandkids. If you view children as creations you're proud of, something to mold and raise with your values and make them good people, good brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters, then it's a gift to be able to spend time with your grandchildren doing stuff they like and teaching them things as well as learning from them. I'm not praising or condemning either lifestyle, I'm just trying to explain to you that there might be another side to the equation that could seem almost foolish in your eyes and a few others.

[@hannanatalisa3282]

Just knowing someone you love is present really gives a morral boost even in the lowest point of your life. Sad that a lot of people do not consider this when they decide to not have a family because they feel a spouse and children are burdonsome (especially talking to the ladies here). Okay, some family members can be unsupportive, but if you are good you will at least have someone. So many old people just kill themselves or are abused because they have no one else to fight for or stand up for them. This is something people only realize when it is too late. Single old people will be abused by the system, sadly 😥. No matter how much money you saved up for retirement.

[@jahnkejustin429]

You can maintain good health deep into life if you put in the effort.

[@lk1590]

I first became a mother at 20, postponed education and career to my 30 when I really knew what I wanted to do and my kids were in school. I’ve never regretted it.

[@oscarparedes4033]

🫡

[@ciarancosgrave]

That's the ideal way to do it. And as a result of motherhood, you were probably far more mature by the time you reached 30 than a single, childless person would be at that age and, as such, better equiped to pursue your education and career with discipline and the drive of having something bigger than yourself to work for.

[@gust0204]

May be the next step should be studying families who have had children earlier and then went on to school and a career.

[@ksormon1]

Not trying to attack you, just genuinely wondering, how did you afford to do that? Did your husband cover all of the expenses?

[@GetCaught]

I smell no husband aka spoken like a “single mum”

[@atdotcom64]

My wife had all three of her kids by the time she was 28. My daughter has three children by the time she is 29. You need lots of energy with little kids. Don’t wait for the right time. There is no right time. Life is happening now. Being a fit grandpa in his 50s is a true joy…

[@opiumcopium]

Did your wife and daughter go to college? Because that's the biggest delaying factor imo

[@TheSwissChalet]

"her" kids? They're not yours?

[@darrenarmitage3460]

@Opium Copium very interesting. Its also where they get marinated in malthusianism. Our educational institutions are corrupted and anti-human.

[@MrBobbystyles]

Going to college for a degree that’s pointless while continuing to live within a single parent home and dating countless others seems to be todays youth . You cant live at home and stay under your parent’s insurance until 25+ and expect life to be normal .

[@grannyannie2948]

I had my youngest child at 25. As I see it you have the whole of your life to study, you only have about ten years to have healthy babies. I raised my daughters to understand this. And I agree, it's great to be a young grandparent.

[@liviuursegr]

As someone living in Germany and working in the medical field I can only confirm that the whole "old peoples' homes" branch is a rising financial milk cow, while the care truly provided is suboptimal

[@GUITARTIME2024]

All those young muslims will take great care of you. Lol

[@kushungpeng]

Talking about Germany, the doctors are so dismissive. It is like they need your money but dont want to see you in their office and the world thinks Europe and America have the best medical care.Example, my son had intestinal bleeding and the doctor just wrote for a cream and no further investigations. never took history,no general examination of the child. when we asked questions, they acted as if we were questioning their intelligence and looked agitated and act busy. THAT IS TOTAL NEGLIGENCE RIGHT THERE

[@brianperry4815]

That's why I would rather be the old man in a cabin untill I die then think of having a younger generation take care of me. Most can't take care of themselves. Many are still living at there parents home.

[@donkeydan5996]

Same here in the states

[@edheldude]

A WHO report says: Rates of a6use of older people are high in institutions such as nursing homes and long-term care facilities, with _2 in 3 staff reporting that they have committed abuse in the past year._ Imagine that. You'll get medicated and handled roughly, or even abandoned.

[@BeatTheBanksATM]

I'll be 35 this year, I'm childless, and going through what I assume will be a break up with a man I was hoping to make babies with. This podcast hit really close to home. Here's hoping I get another opportunity before it's too late

[@Raygun9000]

Lower your material standards, and look for compatible values. Good luck

[@austinjames2721]

Why do you want kids?

[@JohnSmith-wx9wj]

@@austinjames2721 Your mom

[@opiumcopium]

Why did the relationship not work out?

[@TheSwissChalet]

You need to get busy.

[@neillgowans4350]

One of the reasons I left teaching at 30 was because the pay was so poor for the south of England that I could see how I could afford a wife and kids. Now have a job earning 5x more and married with 2 kids. Financial security is a massive issue.

[@darrenpat182]

what is your job?

[@davidwest2240]

I struggled really hard financially for most of my life. I was basically a failure despite enormous. Then later in life I inherited a large Fortune. Life improves so much when you are financially independent and people treat you so much better it both made me happy and sad

[@EveIsJustMyBlogName]

The worrying thing, is when we see that collapsing young population means there will be fewer and fewer working age adults able to support the system. This will make it even more difficult to support a family. More women will need to be working long hours just to build a life. If women are concerned with career before family now, that can only become a larger issue as people struggle more and more to make a living. I’m not suggesting women shouldn’t be free to make choices. I simply believe the future will make the choice to become a mother even more inaccessible to women. I’m a mother. I count myself blessed to have a husband and my children. I know many other women who want the same, but the most common thing I hear is that people just can’t afford to bring a child into their life. It’s very sad.

[@maniswil2]

Someone needs to tell Africans, and middle easterners. This is only a problem in the west. But the same problem around the world is getting RICH and comfortable stops people from having kids. When you're poor kids are insurance, and when you're rich they are just a nuisance. People are selfish and it's extremely hard to admit. My lady and I make a combined 95k in the USA and we're about to have our 3rd kid. We just don't live the life of luxury.

[@chriswatson1698]

@@EveIsJustMyBlogName I think that the opposite will be the case. Population increase makes urban land enormously expensive, so housing will be more expensive. Homes with yards have disappeared. And who wants to live with a baby and a toddler in a little flat 4 storeys up?

[@Headinavise]

We talked about this in the 90's. I remember a teacher telling me that companies want to hire new grads not older people. I was laid off from ATCO Electric after 15 years of service. I tried to get my job back when rehiring started and was just past from one person to another until I stopped. All the new hires are in their 20's and new grads. Our society has made getting a good job and school a priority in our younger child bearing years. I think we found a flaw.

[@masterblaster4784]

Try contracting/consulting

[@wombatillo]

It should be 1) basic education, 2) family and if you can fit in some more education and work while the kids grow for the first ~7 years, 3) career. This idea that you spend your 20's grinding in college and starting the foundations of your career or you'll forever be a career reject is insane.

[@chriswatson1698]

@@wombatillo It is the reality. I did a degree after I had children. Nobody wants to employ a 40 year old beginner. Employers want experience as well as training.

[@arcabuz]

Try dealing with cocaine, there’s no age limit there

[@Headinavise]

@@arcabuz I would rather be dead than be a drug dealer or a drug user.

[@polloman15]

This episode put a tear in my eyes, next year my wife and I are planning to have our first child and you just remove all hesitation from me. Thank you ❤

[@polloman15]

@@Chris-es3wf We’re waiting 3 months actually, gynecologist appointment. So what anyway, are you a father already?

[@marinagallant1847]

God bless

[@Ann64]

All the best❤

[@antoniopolak6650]

it si the best thing on the world, it is incredibly hard, but it is worth it. when i was younger i was saying i don't want children because i was traveling the world, having fun, now i have 2 kids and i want two more. my wife is 30 and i hope we can get at least one more. it just makes you a real men, and a grownup

[@nonnoyobisnis8705]

​@@antoniopolak6650 Not incredibly hard. I never understood why people would complain about having to feed their kids in the middle of the night or change diapers. That is not a problem at all, it's just what you naturally do (provided the kids are healthy).

[@stephanygates6491]

As a girl child of the 60’s I made a personal decision to not contribute to the population “problem” (by abstaining). It seemed innocuous enough, just not being one of the parents. I spent my life caring for my elders and serving severely disabled folk. Now at 64, I realize I listened to propaganda. I probably would be a better person if I’d experienced parenting, even though I’m really not psychologically suited to the task. Sorry, everyone.

[@LV81991]

No need to be sorry in my opinion.

[@WhizzingFish12]

Shes not saying that. Hers was a noble life of service, but because of the negative messaging she received when she was young she didn't want kids. She could have done all of those things and still had children.

[@alelectric2767]

Sorry to hear that.

[@priapulida]

@@kc6810 you're devalueing both motherhood and the helping professions with your thoughtless comment

[@Madonnalitta1]

No one is suited until they have them.

[@tegan2mares]

Reasons I can think of which haven't been mentioned here: 1. Men are afraid because of the legal problems associated with being fathers. 2. People want to control their lives instead of having a belief system which involves selflessness and family values. 3. People are online rather than irl with each other. 4. Fertility in men is dropping fast. 5. Family trauma/disassociation 6. Uncertainty about the future/checking out/disassociation 7. Lack of "grown ups" among 20 somethings. 8. Very insufficient sex ed 9. College Ed valued over starting a family 10. Lack of traditional practices/events in communities, like dances, which set people up to want to engage and to be able to interact in a healthy mating game

[@Opal5674]

I used to watch old shows with my mom and they were based in the 60 and back. Thry used to have "socials" and dances where people dressed their best and got together in a wholesome way and now we have nothing but clubs and bars. Now I might have gone to a social with my introverted self but you'll never see me in a bar or club.....and never on a dating app which means I don't meet anyone...except co-workers

[@love__and__hope__]

Most prominent is rotten values. It used to be number kids that counted as status. Nowadays it is posts social media featuring exotic counties and looking rich.

[@grannyannie2948]

For the first reason, I suggest people have marriage contracts overpowering no fault divorce, and placing the relationship out of family court and into contract law.

[@grannyannie2948]

@@Opal5674 Even in the 80s when I was young these were common.

[@grannyannie2948]

@@coreywilder1564 If our ancestors thought like that, we wouldn't be here.

[@Scaevola77]

Something to contemplate: The next couple generations of kids who it will fall on to support the aging population might feel highly resentful of the responsibility. They'll likely be supportive of their parents and grandparents, but that is it. But because the elderly will make up the majority voting bloc they will likely vote for politicians and policies that heavily favor them at the expense of the new generations. I can see a huge rift in society because of this.

[@hunterbidensaidslesion1356]

I agree. All of these childless people are going to demand that other people's kids take care of them, in the form of oppressive taxation. The people complaining that it's too expensive to have kids now, haven't seen anything yet.

[@skylinefever]

I have heard this is reason #1 that the Japanese youth don't bother to be part of politics.

[@melindagallegan5093]

The rift is already happening

[@saysflushable]

Great point

[@PandorasFolly]

This is a reall accurate observation. We've seen this exact process happen in Japan in the last 20 years.

[@sauceybossyboi7725]

it's too expensive to exist, I'd never do that to someone else.....

[@FragmentedMindZ]

Imagine being born to a world invented by humans for humans but you can’t even afford to exist there. Welcome to humanity.

[@curtisvalle5141]

It's great discovering that almost everything 'society has preached to us has been wrong.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Not everything. It's only a matter of perspective

[@maniswil2]

@@wyleecoyotee4252 Enough to where it puts into question everything else.

[@MOMO-m0m0]

@@maniswil2 very good point

[@larkatmic]

Especially feminisms lies

[@gpower9572]

I live in Ireland. Global warming does not scare me.

[@QuynhNguyen-hw9ps]

I was 38 years old when I had my first child. My husband was 40 years old and we have been talking about this between us wishing we would’ve met earlier and started this family project earlier. We both have professional careers, my husband is still doing his PhD. This podcast really put into words and data what I have been feeling about my own situation. I keep telling ALL young people I meet to start earlier. Looking back , I would’ve done things differently but hey… at least now I know I am not the only one thinking the education, the culture , the dating , the men and women relationship narratives need to shift for the next generation. I loved the podcast, thank you so so much for your work and I will be looking forward to help others avoid the challenges we’ve had to face having children later. 👍🏼👏❤️

[@scarlett9050]

Thank you for speaking up!

[@shanepatrick641]

Hats off for being honest, more people need to hear this.

[@derekhamel2991]

I always wanted the family thing as a man, but chances are becoming less like now as I'm 43, and the state of modern dating/courting as well as my individual goals. To your point though I remember being late 20's talking with another co-worker who married his wife young and had 3 or four kids by the time he and his wife were 23 or so; good Catholic Mexicans. At the time he was mid 40's and was advocating the same thing. Have em young and be able to enjoy your middle years with freedom. His only regret at the time is that his two boys, mid 20's were both still at home and the Wife wouldn't let him kick the baby-birds from the nest.

[@pinchebruha405]

Very well said, wow so simple yet poignant.

[@QuynhNguyen-hw9ps]

@@derekhamel2991 hey , tell me about it. The dating scene can be brutal especially the online dating experience. All I can say is use online dating like a tool, put yourself at places with people who probably share one common interest. Take classes, be a bit bolder to approach anyone you feel good energy from. Don’t give up. I started the online dating in my 30s and I was a late bloomer, not the feminine sexy type and I didn’t care much of what people thought of me… but then I wanted family and a marriage based on love and for that I had to « optimize » my strategy. I lost ton lf weight to be more appealing to men (being a fat woman decreases your mating range!) I read Harville Hendrix books , found out how I was « f**up », dated around, recognize my patterns… try to improve them, met some men , all of them were really nice people. Even when things don’t work out, we always wished each other better luck. We are all in this game together trying to reach our goals so why not encourage ourselves and help one another. You should keep going, as a man you can have a kid at 60! Look at Clint Eastwood! Hehe There is a woman/man/it for everyone. It is never too late for love. I met my husband on Happn. He was the only one I talked to on my 1 week trial of the app. I’m sure you’re a great guy. Don’t give up. Look up to women in the streets and smile to them, open doors for them. Not all women think that is toxic masculinity . 😉

[@chriswatson1698]

In Australia, business and government love the drop in the birth rate. It gives them the excuse to bring in cheaper migrant labour.

[@BronsonTheCat]

They’ve violated the social contract! All they care about is profit!!

[@mathish1477]

For any one birth they bring in five immigrants

[@TheSnoopyclone]

Lol, that’s called shooting yourself in the foot. Look at some of the heavily migrated European countries. Lots of them have been taken over by Islamics and the laws have changed to meet their needs. Eventually it’s no longer the original country, but the migrants. Lol

[@princesspikachu3915]

Australia: the continent built upon the backbone of convicts being sent there. Makes perfect sense.

[@chriswatson1698]

@@princesspikachu3915 Australia wasn't built by convicts.

[@kenpumford754]

My wife is a nurse, and as part of her education, she became very much aware of the fertility window, and the increasing risks of motherhood at later ages. She was 23 when we married, and from the beginning, was insistent that we have children before she turned 30, which we did. Thank goodness I listened to her. We are now in our 50s, in great health, with much more time and money to travel the world and enjoy life than when we were in our childless early / mid-20s.

[@Jaapst]

Different times

[@Jaapst]

You’re almost a boomer you don’t understand the issues you’re children will face in this life and especially their children if they are even going to have them.

[@kni9ght]

Good for you, love to have a women and child in my life, tons of doomers are out here

[@kimberlyjean2248]

I dropped out of my masters program at age 23 when my husband and I had our first child. It was important to me that I be the one at home raising my children. 14 years later, I am still a stay at home mom to our 3 children. My husband has moved mountains to make sure he has been able to work and earn enough to support me and our children on his income alone. If our species wants to survive into the future we will need to put the priority back on the family and less on career success and “lifestyle freedom”.

[@George-vf7ss]

Kudos to you and your husband. We did the same thing.

[@Jirizo1]

I read this as "women need to focus on raising a family and finding a provider and not education and independance."

[@parkwood6334]

That starts by telling 20 year old men to grow up and stop extending adolescence until 30 and then postponing family until they can afford it. Women are career focused because they know they have to support themselves and a family while their male counterparts are seeing how many notches they can cut into the bedpost.

[@kimberlyjean2248]

@@Jirizo1 Yes Sir. Women are free to do what they choose. But when the mother is focused on her career and freedom, someone else is taking care of and raising her children. Usually the government run public school system and daycare providers. Since the big feminism push in the 60s and 70s, the family unit and especially children in our society have paid a great price for making women believe that taking care of your children and home is not worth their time and a useless job because it doesn’t make money. I believe family and children should come first for the mother. If we still have time and energy left after these things, then sure, pursue a career or other personal freedoms.

[@mrbill2600]

@@kimberlyjean2248 I'm 84 so I've seen this from the start ... The two greatest contributing factors were: 1.) the "Pill" which led to 2.) pie-in-the-sky women's lib. The answer is ... teen years end at 19 and work begins at becoming a responsible adult.

[@ShamballaCenter]

Fascinating conversation. Demographers have been speaking to the dangers of global population decline for years, but got no press whatsoever, so I'm glad to see this here. One point I take issue with is the equating of "poor" people having large families many years ago to the idea that they still can now. The idea that families aren't willing to do without creature comforts in order to have children may be valid in some respects, but strikes me as short-sighted. Many years ago, when families were largely self-sustaining, many children were encouraged because they became much needed free labor on family farms. During industrialization, children were sent to work in factories at early ages in orderto help support the family financially. It served a purpose. We live in a time now where children are in school full-time until the age 18...and then many go on to additional schooling to gain opportunities at better paying careers, while still depending predominantly on their parents for financial support. For roughly two decades, parents support their children completely in a world where wages have been mostly stagnant since the late '70's while the cost of living has risen exponentially. Today's poor families struggle to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table, period. There are few creature comforts to give up, even if they want to. Every child brought into that equation stresses the family unit even more. And we now know there is a direct relation between financial stress in a family and the occurrence of different types of abuse. In the US, a father of two or more can work full-time at a skilled job and still qualify for food assistance because his income is under the poverty threshhold. Something about that just isn't right. There are plenty of married couples who don't mind living a simple life, driving beaters for cars, rarely eating out, buying new clothes or taking vacations. But even these couples struggle to justify bringing children into the world, knowing that they won't be able to provide for them in a way that can give them a hand up in the world. They aren't wrong for that choice. It's a complex issue with no easy answers. 😕

[@SeanEustace-zk3mc]

15 to 20 years ago, leftist would spin the conversation of demographic decline in the fall of working age population into a race guard game where they would tell minorities that you were talking about the fact that they would be more minorities in the future than white people and that’s what you are afraid of. They literally wasted 20 years, which is to say a whole generation of workers with their lies and propaganda to shut people up their whole. The world is too populated argument was there to but their arguments for birth control and abortion the whole time they knew this was bullshit from the very beginning. Don’t describe your good motives to other people , they were liars from the beginning and they just wanted to deceive you in order to get what they wanted which was a low population planet which they saw is better for the environment. Most of them were middle class and well off anyway, and it will hurt them a hell of a lot less than it’s going to hurt the poor .

[@avonacolyte]

I laughed (bleakly) at how "this is the best time in history to live on Earth!" turned so swiftly into "of all the nightmares we could live in, this is the most luxurious"!

[@99guspuppet8]

my life was fabulous up through age 65 years …… i have the best partner i could dream of …….. from year 49 and beyond i have been useless except for party-time ……. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Let’s all go to Sugar rock Candy Mountain

[@sunso1991]

It really feel like the end of the world roof top party right now. Nothing makes sense, economy, government, foreign policy, national debt, feminism, LGBTUKHFBUFVEQ, Wokism.... On the other hand market meltup, hosuing FOMO, packed mall and bars. However this ends, it wouldn't be pretty, but at least right now the drinks are still flowing

[@99guspuppet8]

@@sunso1991 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ cheers to you …..lets all go to sugar rock candy mountain

[@LogicSpeaks]

So you prefer living in the 1940s? Or maybe earlier where the mortality rate everywhere around the world was like the Congo or worse? It is still the best time to be alive for 99.7% of people on earth. It is easy to make the mistake of assuming doom and gloom from these podcasts. They’re important but putting too much weight on them is insane.

[@avonacolyte]

@@LogicSpeaks The 1940s were the most catastrophic decade in human history, so not a good comparator. In general, though, anything before the internet would be an improvement; anything before the nuclear bomb has an obvious advantage; anything before 1914, when the intellectual and artistic culture of my civilization was still at its peak, would be excellent, and anything before the despoilation of the land and systematic degradation of the poor by industrialization would probably be best. I know war, disease and poverty were great evils then, as now, and if magically transported back in time I would not cope; but if I were born into it I would have the same chance as anyone. Besides, the Victorians could claim with just as much justice as we can to have mitigated those problems - as could the Georgians and the Stuarts, for that matter. They were making progress almost throughout. The twentieth century, on the other hand, was a devastating backwards step for humanity. Renaissance intellectuals were constantly going on about how the times they lived in were the best ever; if you don't find them wholly convincing, I don't have to find you wholly convincing! Mortality is an especially bad metric because most of that is infant mortality - sad, but well within the normal range of human experience.

[@kybourbonboy]

When I was a teenager in the late 60s my father made an observation to me (more than once) that made more and more sense as I got older. He said, if a man stays single into his 30s he will likely not get married (long term) because he will be so set in his ways that only the perfect woman will do - and there ain't so such thing as the perfect woman. I would guess that, perhaps in a slightly different way that similarly applies to women. You need to be young enough grow together and develop similar interests together.

[@momfoldinglaundry9963]

Wow. Yes, I’ve seen this with my friends who are single.

[@edheldude]

Nah. I would be ok to marry a woman in her 20s because she hasn't been set in her ways, and if she doesn't have mileage and baggage. I wouldn't marry a woman my age.

[@ll2323]

We need to stop keeping young people in college then, 4 years is too long. U really can do it in just two.

[@OverRule1]

​@@edheldude Yeah same, relationships tend to get stressful and require constant work on both sides. It would be worth it if it was the right woman. I would prefer a woman not raised in western society and does not obsess over social media and is more family oriented. I am 33 but people think I'm in my early 20's. I avoid hook up culture. Not interested in STD's and sleeping with random women I don't care for that have been with who knows how many men. I chase health, self improvement, and living a life worth living

[@griseld]

Yep, when young you have still tolerance and haven't yet defined who you are. When you too old you're already set in your way of living and don't have enough patience to tolerate someone else

[@bigheadrhino]

Interesting how even in the absence or high mortality, natural selection finds a way. There's a massive evolutionary chokepoint happening right now because a lot of people aren't reproducing which means the people who ARE reproducing within their own populations will have a huge impact on the future of human traits.

[@thomasnihil4878]

Brilliant comment.👍

[@JohnSmith-wx9wj]

Yeah, Amish and Mormons will end up ruling North America.

[@grannyannie2948]

I don't feel the human race is in danger. But throughout, I was thinking how the large number of young adults taking vows of celibacy and failing to have children, contributed to the fall of Rome.

[@dontcallthemliberals3316]

Also on the future of culture. The values of large family parents will be the values of tomorrow's society. Unless the public schools have their way. Edit: For better or worse, the future will be VERY religious.

[@Madonnalitta1]

@@dontcallthemliberals3316 the pendulum swing?

[@huwbishop6995]

I was a dad at 29, purely by accident. Now I'm 42 and not dating, a lot of this resonated with me. So glad I've got my daughter as I'm unlikely to have managed to do so otherwise.

[@chriswatson1698]

Most eldest children that I know of were accidental. Their parents always thought that they would have children "sometime" but only because everybody else does.

[@noglobo]

36:13 36:34 When I worked in retail, I had many 15-16 year olds talk to me about how much they loved babies. 17-30, not a peep, in fact, hated babies. I call it "the flip", usually last year of high school, or entering University, she becomes completely mesmerised by global options for everything.

[@danyyboye]

I wonder if the "hate" is a subconscious self deluding defensive barrier? It's either that or psychopathy to actually "hate" babies out right. It's worse than to "hate" defenseless pets and animals by an order of magnitude. Babies are the most defenseless of the defenseless. Something has to be really really wrong in the individual's psychology to actually hate such beings. Those who say it as a defensive subconscious line actually are the ones who feel the pain of not having one in a very deep way and would care the most to a baby- tears running down their necks- if they find themselves locked with one, abandoned.

[@deathmetalcakefarts2751]

@@danyyboyechildren are a tremendous sacrifice to raise healthy and properly and it certainly isn’t for everyone! I thought I wanted kids - then I babysat for a while and realized this is drudgery and insane

[@paulsansonetti7410]

Look at him blaming people for cost of living being preposterous Look at housing costs College costs Healthcare costs Vehicle prices Food that isn't complete poison

[@natlove2099]

Right. Who paid him to do this research?

[@paulsansonetti7410]

@@Snake369 why do you presume there is only one cause ? Go read the " jaffe memo " a list of ways planned Parenthood brain stormed in 1969 to potentially get people to have less kids They had lots of ideas Also go read " NSSM 200 " and realize this has all been planned since 1973 if not earlier

[@onagoodday5557]

There is an important point here regarding how much we need to be sensitive to the hurts and difficulties experienced by others. Life is a challenge, there are many challenges. It isn't what the challenges are, it is how we negotiate them. As a young exhausted widow, with 2 children, working in mental health, I listen to family concerns, marriage concerns, and happy family stories all day. I think it is really important that we come to appreciate others joy, rather than expecting others to be sensitive to our hurts. I am happy to be sensitive to the needs of others, however I have noticed that I feel I am not allowed to be outwardly proud or joyful about, for example, having had children without medical interventions. Apparently this is hurtful to those mothers who are obliged to take pain meds, or other procedures. Having had beautiful, natural births is a huge point of pride and joy for me. I want to be happy for people's joys, including my own. I don't want to oblige others to tend to my broken heart, that is my responsibility. We need a balance here.

[@carlwide6594]

Just talk to men, instead of trying to communicate with judgemental progressive females. Everything in life is easier and better if you isolate yourselves from those types.

[@dodopson3211]

​@@kc6810being breast fed actually does matter for the immune system. So much so that here if babies are in the hospital they will ask the mother if she is able to bring in her own milk that they will then feed that through the feeding tube. They actually keep said milk in the freezer. Of course if it's impossible it is sad and fortunately we do have alternatives for those people.

[@CMoore8539]

@@dodopson3211 I agree. It’s very very important for the baby if at all possible.

[@Disinformation_Hoax]

Well said. The last thing we need more in the west is being more "sensitive".

[@terry9238]

You’re allowed to be happy; but bragging isn’t polite. It never has been.

[@tricatame7427]

This fatalist panic is ridiculous. You should be thanking childless women of reproductive age. Even animals excercise population control when carrying capacity of their species is exceeded and there is general resource uncertainty. 9 billion and counting and you are upset not because of population decline, the upset is women takind control over their most important decision. I would at take this seriously if humans live in harmony with mothet nature and the carbon footprint of each new human wasn t this high. No othet specie on earth is a bigger threat to the overall health of this planet. Think planet before self replication of your selfish genes.

[@greentarsius9051]

Having children comes with an insane responsitiblity. I have highest repect for anyone who does no just get pregnant because they want a child, but build up a stable nest first. Finding a partner you can rely on, having a secure job or at least a secure career level, have a home where you mustn't be afraid to be thrown out, have enough money to take care of the child and to get through unplanned problems like health issues etc. There are so many children living in bad conditions. Poverty. Exhausted parents who can't care for them properly. Single moms and dads who cannot afford the support they need. And now there come some rich old guys who worry about their pensions and their share values and try to talk girls into young motherhood. We don't give birth to children for economy nor pensions nor soldiers nor working slaves. If you want more children improve the conditions for families. People want to have children, but not at the cost of them living a miserable life.

[@marianhunt8899]

Well said.

[@christopher2215]

Chris, this was one of the most powerful podcasts I've listened to and I regularly listen to some of the greats. Thank you for doing this interview.

[@johnglennmercury7]

At 0:19:45 Chris & Stephen completely undermine the meaning of this data. This idiotic "you live your life they way you want to" libertinism is central to this problem. I have several kids. It's bloody hard. I don't get to write & make videos like I could were I childless. I can't help but notice the KZbinrs I like - Chris, Tim Pool, malace - are childless. Again, this ideology is CENTRAL to the problem. We do need social pressure to step up & stop being narcissistic Peter pans. "this desire is innate" - what nonsense. How can you empirically investigate if a woman who says at 25 she doesn't want kids, wait till she's 50 & compare with the parallel universe where she did have kids?? You're just reinforcing the message that it's OK to avoid the responsibilities of being part of a multigenerational game where we all need to work hard.

[@TrippyKitty08]

I left a 8 year relationship in 2020 with a person who never wanted to get married or have kids but we got a large house together. I remember feeling like it was a tomb. I didn't want to grow old and die alone with him. I was raised to believe having children young or getting married young would ruin my life. But now I kinda want a family. But it feels so weird to say. Most of the women I know who are my age (late 20's early 30's) with babies are raising them alone. I don't want that. I want my kid to have a father and grandparents and stuff! I personally don't have a family and it's dangerous and lonely. Any emergency I'm in I have to network my friends together to help me. That's not acceptable for raising a child. It's barely reasonable for an adult! Plus, I'm ridiculously poor.

[@impactfoto]

I have a female friend who just had a child, alone, at 32, so she fits in with what you have noticed. As for me, I'm a guy in my 50's who was never particularly in a hurry to have kids, but figured I'd eventually 'meet the right girl' and nature would take its course, and that simply didn't happen. Now it feels ridiculous to still hold out hope that I might find someone to have kids with... does not seem likely at all.

[@willbass2869]

@@impactfoto your 32 yo friend is the worst thing possible. The problem isn't declining numbers of children being born the problem is the disintegration of FAMILY FORMATION. I'll bet your friend will be the first to demand special treatment and taxpayer support because ... "I'm a single mom". Draining the life out of working MEN (& women) to support her choice. She's EXACTLY one of the primary causes of how we got into this situation. Single women shouldn't be allowed sperm donations or taxpayer support nor should "rainbow" people be allowed to adopt.

[@taylorrevest2027]

I am rich. I will marry you and we will make baby.

[@kathycoleman4648]

I'll give my mom this: she told me that if I hadn't had kids by thirty to forget it. It's a do or die thing. Know what you want and know what you end up getting. Of course, it's also important to realize that having a child is not (or should not be!) a single person venture. It's not like going to the local car dealership and buying a mini van. There is someone else involved.

[@pinchebruha405]

Yep and men are not stepping up to the plate so here we go again it’s all women’s fault damn if you do damn if you don’t. Everyone bags on Single moms especially if you have more than one child so yeah I’d like Christian’s and men to tell me again how it’s all women’s fault we get pregnant

[@alanadawn1755]

My mom had me at 37 and had my brother at 40. My sister had her first child at 31 and second at 33. Many of my female cousins had their children after 35. One of my family friends just had her child at 39, and her mother had her at 40. It’s the same story with many women I know in my life, and all of their children are perfectly healthy. They waited until they were married. It’s not over at 30. Yes, chances to have children or have healthy children are not as favorable later on, but I know too many women having kids past 30 to believe chances are so abysmal. They ALL say that they don’t regret waiting, but most of the women I know that had kids in their 20s say they wished they’d waited. All that to say, I don’t believe it’s due or die at 30. Don’t give up just yet!

[@jozigalm8159]

Sorry but you're perpetuating bs. I'm 31. All of my peers are having kids now. Early 30s. I'm around the corner. There is absolutely a point after 30.

[@Vixandra]

I had mine at 30 and 32, after being married for ten years. We weren't ready before then.

[@frankjennings4489]

@@pinchebruha405 Whose fault is it if women get pregnant?

[@andrewgraham8561]

The idea that having children prevents loneliness as an older adult is luficrous. My grandparents spent most of their time alone and definitely didn't love each other as I found out later. Theu didn't survive on the love of their children. We are all individuals, and we will all one day die alone. Children do t prevent this.

[@justanotherfella4585]

It’s been a fair amount of time since I’ve spent so much time shouting “exactly” & “I’ve been saying this for years” at an interview/discussion/podcast. Thank you & brilliant job! Nice one.

[@and2244rew]

We built a world that is not compatible with human flourishing.

[@curiosi-tea6914]

Precisely.

[@Jaapst]

We live in a anti human world

[@cmorillo2865]

When my niece married in her early 20’s, she wondered about waiting to have children. I told her 1) there is never a “convenient” time to have children, 2) the older you are, the harder it gets. I told her she would be better off having them early, regardless of circumstance. They have two beautiful girls now and is not yet 30. :)

[@billjohnson1094]

My wife and I both turn 65 this year. Never had children. Our greatest life regret. 😢

[@abrajean9634]

I turned 62 this year. Never had children. Never had a moment's regret. Have kids all you want, save society, whatever you're into. But some of us are damn happy childfree. Don't let anyone push you in either direction. It's the most personal and life-changing decision of your life. It needs to be YOUR decision, 100%.

[@harvbegal6868]

Here in the year of our lord 2023, having children is nothing more than an expensive headache. Be glad you skipped that garbage and live life to its fullest extent.

[@TheXantaur]

​@@abrajean9634 im glad you didn't have kids

[@abrajean9634]

@@TheXantaur me too 🥰

[@bazbarrington250]

The only reason the UK’s birth rate isn’t as low as the rest of Europe is probably due to the masses of foreigners that entered the country over the last few years, who then went on to give birth here. The most popular baby names give a clue as to the demographic change.

[@BiblicalBasics]

According to the Office of National Statistics "Muhammad was the most popular boys' name in four out of nine English regions". Muslim women produce a lot of babies.

[@zumurudlilit]

@@BiblicalBasics no, almost every first son is given this name. So it is misleading. The group that have the most children are Polish women, from what i heard.

[@thebeast09876]

​@@BiblicalBasics Indeed, men know their rights as fathers, providers, protectors and women knows her position. Hence why you find peace and harmony in majority Muslim families.

[@maniswil2]

@@thebeast09876 65% of muslims marry their first cousins. In England this equates to 1/3 pakistanis bearing children with genetic disabilities. The religion has some benefits but massive drawbacks.

[@thebeast09876]

@@maniswil2 65% impossible, but I do agree there are a % who marry their first cousins and have these problems mainly in boys. Ultimately Islam keeps families and communities together in peace and harmony, you will see the spirit of brotherhood when breaking fast together.

[@pamelabratton2501]

As a parent of four, the sad thing is I have no grandchildren and may never have any grandchildren at all. I, too, have felt this grief...

[@tanimal3964]

My friend is one of three sisters, none of whom have children and are all almost 40, their parents so wanted grandkids. It's worst for my friend because ever since she was little she's wanted to be a mother more than anything, but cancer put a stop to that. Such a shame.

[@MonkeyUseBrain]

Stephen does a great job explaining problems in a polite way. It's difficult to be blunt and explain how people sabotage their own reproduction.

[@xisigma]

5 years elementary, 3 years middle, 4 years high school could be done in half that time. I still remember sitting in classrooms looking out the window wondering when my life was going to start. I'm 45 and never married and or had children.

[@septiccryp3453]

Yes I agree u think we should finish school at 16 and go to college early.

[@MyAirMyles]

Why did you not have kids?

[@ortilio]

I think something went wrong inside me during those high school years....

[@Hunty49]

I'm in the exact same situation. Mid 40's, never married, no children. I have a high paying job, a lot of stuff, lots of investments, I want for nothing. But I question what am I doing. What's my purpose? To have all this to have a great retirement at 60? A family to share everything with is what I need.

[@northrockboy]

I have 7 kids. Some tough stretches financially. No fancy house, vehicles or holidays. But every day facebook reminds me (thru pictures) i have a lot of fond memories. I just have 15 year old twin boys left and the caboose. My 10 year old girl. Went by so fast it seemed. I have no regrets.

[@dylanking1895]

I am so glad to hear this is one of your pet obsessions, I’ve been learning about this for about 6 months now and I feel like we are already passed the point of no return, we just don’t realise it because the true impact hasn’t landed yet.

[@kubilaybalci5724]

Blame secularism and atheism, as per La Mettrie and historical atheists: without God ppl devolve into endless short term hedonism

[@nonfictionone]

But who is ‘we’. Some entire continents growing exponentially.

[@DomenicT]

@@nonfictionone there’s no “some” continents growing exponentially. A few countries are around a fertility rate of 5 . That’s high, but not as high as you might think, especially considering infant mortality rates in these countries are much higher than western countries. Even if a few stay above replacement of 2.1, considering we live in a global economy, these countries at 5 will still suffer.

[@dylanking1895]

@@nonfictionone the world works on a balance of trade network’s between countries, when certain countries can’t keep up their end of the bargain the whole system falls behind…

[@TJlongisland]

@@nonfictiononename 5

[@chemtrooper1]

Became a dad at 17, 2nd kid at 21. Would not recommend, but I took my responsibility seriously working hard jobs to provide for them. I’m in my 40s and just now starting the career I wanted while my kids were young. I was hardly ever home with a 70 hr week during most of their childhood. I’m not an antinatalist, just remember that no one asked to be here. (Before you attack me, I love my kids with the very depths of my being and glad they are here).

[@GuardianTactician]

Sounds like it wasn't the best way to go about it, but you did your best with the way things went. And you should be commended for taking responsibility.

[@dipro001]

Man you are still quite young and have two adult kids by your side.. Does that feel like having super powers?

[@metgirl5429]

Had 4 children early hard work and yes some times felt I wasn’t “there” all the time so so busy working odd hrs etc … we are now married 45 years ( still happy ) and have eight grand children … all close…. you ve done a great job enjoy the rest of your journey with your family 🕊

[@devonbrody822]

Salute

[@sitka49]

I hear you I think its pretty common, me the wife married at W,21 me,22 first kid about year later. I worked a shit for job for 31 years. I had plans of starting my own business and then surprise kid #1 show's up ,so I stayed were I was, I carried the benefits ,and than you start to build longevity, pay raises, PTO , it made it harder drop everything and start something new in the middle of raising a family, and wasn't just me and wife I had to think about more. The only thing was my kids seen me coming home from work night after night dragging my ass through the door, never really complained in front of them ,but they knew. I think that reflected on them.- That said we had some good fun with kids over the years and me and the wife wouldn't change that for anything.

[@hammerdown3413]

I know this is an old video, and I NEVER comment on anything but I gotta say something here. Maybe someone like me will se this comment and feel better or some "expert" who can do something about it will realize whats going on. I am very disappointed about how finances as the problem are glazed right over. Your expert is telling me that my membership to the tennis club took priority over my want to have kids. I spent my younger years working 10-12 hour days in blue collar jobs and could barely afford to support myself. I am talking about something as simple as a flat tire could leave me homeless. No money to fix flat tire>no car miss work >miss work lose job>lose job cant pay rent, ect. It took 20 years until I was stable enough to even think about being able to support a child. Believe me, I lived poor, cheap cars, cheap rent cheap food cheap clothes. This expert is saying I made bad choices on how I spent my money. I DIDN'T HAVE CHOICES. I also didn't hear anything about the compounding effects of all the reasons you bring up. So there I was, a blue collar worker making pretty good money finally at 35+ years old. that's when the collage bias kicked in ect. The only women that were available were, dare I say; badly damaged single mothers, drug addicts, forever party girls and a whole host of women that would have most likely ended up in disaster having a child with. I am 6'4 and no superstar but I'm certainly not ugly. I was not too picky about a mate but by that age, it seemed that all the "good" ones were taken and all that was left was a group of women who were looking for wealthy move stars or so flawed to the point that having a stable relationship with them was impossible not to mention having kids. I am now 50+ and I have a wonderful woman who is too old to have children. MY HEART BREAKS, when I see a picture of a little boy with a baseball bat resting on his shoulder on my bosses desk or in other places. DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE PLIGHT OF YOUNG MEN. YOUNG MEN MATTER. And if I am not mistaken they are 50% of what it takes to make children. You start this talk by exploring women, women this and women that. And once you get to the fact of men being a provider, which is the bottom line what women are looking for, you guys literally just skip right over it like its not even a real issue. Tennis club member. YOU INSULT ME AND AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF EXPLOITED WORKERS! This message will most likely be like a piss in the ocean, making no difference. Nobody cares about young men anymore. A village that doesn't give its young men a place in it will burn it down just to feel its warmth. I am too old to be burning shit down. But now sit and talk with you experts and try to figure out why this whole society is going to shit. No offense, I love you bro. Keep up the fight.

[@Foxie770]

And yet, Chris is still unmarried and childless 😂

[@sarahrobertson634]

Good point!

[@whitneyanders5945]

He is obsessed with women without children and the birth rate. And yet he isn’t even trying to procreate himself. As a man in his thirties, he should already have at least two or three children so what’s his excuse?

[@sarahrobertson634]

@@whitneyanders5945 A lot of red pill guys are obsessed with women, and what we are supposedly doing or not doing in the world, but can't introspect. Rules for thee, but not for me...

[@l-kin3480]

@@sarahrobertson634 I've also noticed most of them are single. Seems like a lot of bitter single men. Anyway, they can always link up with the red pill chics who aren't like today's 'modern women'

[@sarahrobertson634]

@@l-kin3480 Ahahahahaha! You're so right.

[@allyjhughes]

I’m surprised there wasn’t more discussion about the state of the economy, cost of living crisis, housing market bubble etc affecting this topic. Having children is very expensive, most young people can barely even imagine affording a house, nevermind affording a house plus children. It surely is a major driver of this.

[@mejdlocraftci]

Yet somehow people during and after hellish war times in way worse conditions with completely uncertain future were able to have more children than we do. Really sounds like we are searching for reasons not to have kids

[@user-ju1qd3ok2g]

A total collapse of the economy in the first countries to face this problem? New solutions or a totally new economic model?

[@brianwolthers2762]

Very good point.

[@km0262]

But I swear poorer nations have a lot more kids and their position financially, relative to western nations is much worse. I think the financial crisis is just a convenient excuse.

[@TheFeatureCreep]

If we really had hard conversations with our old people we could go back to multigenerational living. It sucks, but no babies ever is way, way worse.

[@AKNigel]

The "cost of living" is a real thing. The 50s-60s people maybe didn't have iphones, but they owned houses in safe neighborhoods with good schools at minimum wage. They also had a less competitive job market and job security. Before that, people had meaningful local communities. Those were destroyed.

[@Jaapst]

And more important the future looked bright

[@ericdale4641]

They had to wear shades​@@Jaapst

[@Jaapst]

@@ericdale4641 exactly

[@Jaapst]

@@ericdale4641 how is your day Eric ? You wear glasses?

[@geeem7889]

The issue is, we've created a society that's not necessarily children friendly. The way we live and the way things are doesn't encourage ppl to want to have kids. There are so many issues that need to be tackled before people will again feel like having kids is worth it. It's complex. People's values have also changed overtime..due to many reasons. It's not going to be easy to shift this..just like it took years for this to come about, it will take years for things to shift again but not unless something radical happens within the society we have created.

[@gnemilostiviy2370]

One of the things to consider is that a lot of people are priced out of owning their own home where they can start a family. There has to be a psychological challenge of starting a family without having a roof over your head that is yours.

[@argh2945]

He basically mentions something like this in his documentary "Birthgap". The decline in births in most of these countries coincided with big economic or social shocks. Essentially, more and more people said 'what's the point in bringing a child into a world/society like this?'. One of the most peculiar and interesting things about the post war era, in my opinion, is that we got told often that we'd never had it so good ('society is safer, more prosperous etc etc') and yet much of that period coincided with an increase in childlessness (an indication people are pessimistic about the future).

[@forzanerazzurri2339]

Yeah but everyone also has a new car and a new iPhone every year and eats out several times a week.

[@argh2945]

@@forzanerazzurri2339 The childlessness trend started in many countries before these over-consumption trends really took hold. The "stop spending on cars, iPhone, take aways" is a canned, overused response to this problem. I'd wager even that the increase in over-consumption might be at the effect rather than the cause of increasing childlessness. In that people whose societies go through those economic and social upheavals choose over-consumption because they've decided to forego childrearing. As in, 'if I'm not going to have the particular and deeper fulfillment that comes from childrearing -because who in their right mind wants to bring children into this society - then I might as well have hedonic fulfillment'.

[@rodjayoma7085]

@@argh2945 that's a really good point, over-consumption may indeed just be a symptom. Even the Philippines, a relatively poor country with a strong conservative family orientation, anti-abortion laws and 90% Catholic already has a fertility rate of 1.9 in 2022 well below the fertility rate from 2.7 in 2017. No matter how conservatives, the right or the likes of Jordan Peterson try to downplay it, the economic incentives to have smaller families is just too strong in this globalised industrial capitalist economy.

[@argh2945]

@@rodjayoma7085 Yes, the same reasons keep being used over and again (such as loss of traditional values/religion or over-consumption or lack of state support for families etc) but this childlessness trend has taken hold in both liberal and socially conservative countries, in developed and developing countries, in ones with high levels of state support for child care (Scandinavian ones for example) and ones with low levels of state support for child care (Japan for example).

[@romanmir01]

people don't have children because of taxes, high interest rates, high prices

[@theefficentpiggie8577]

Factually incorrect

[@clint3868]

People have way more children in poorer countries

[@romanmir01]

@@clint3868 yes, true, but in poorer countries people are not living in this level of debt, so they don't have to keep repaying it monthly and they don't have to have a job every month to make enough money, both to survive and to repay debts. So creeping taxes don't affect them in the same way, where all one is doing is work-home routine with diminishing returns every year.

[@Madonnalitta1]

I'm 36 and a mother to a beautiful daughter, it's the most fulfilling thing I will ever do. Raising children right is hard but it's the most joyful and rewarding thing you'll ever do. This sounds like a daft inspirational quote but it's true. Your horizons expand considerably when you become a parent.

[@danielhermanus6909]

Wise words

[@Roboticpycotic]

But what if you want to be a 3x dog mom

[@GWAYGWAY1]

Children are super expensive to have when you cannot afford a home or somewhere to live as a family. The costs of a child is said to be £100000 over the time until 18. Debt is a huge albatross around the necks of young people, especially the STUDENT DEBT of tens of thousands minimum.

[@larcm3]

I live in Canada. I have 3 kids and my wife is pregnant with our 4th child. I work really hard to provide for my family. You can always find a reason not to have kids. But if you make up your mind you will find ways to provide for them and your wife.

[@deathmetalcakefarts2751]

@@larcm3bro at this point you’re a donkey on a plantation… wait until she says she’s not happy and reams you in family court. I pray for your body and soul!

[@runswithraptors]

Wow thats about an extra £5600/yr. Not sure about the UK but an extra $5600/yr is pretty reasonable to raise a whole other human

[@pandorasboxduluth]

Excellent podcast BUT I have to pick apart one point that I believe he was either dishonest about or simply wrong; the household income/cost of living topic. This issue cannot be overstated enough. As a parent of 2 small children living in the US, dual income household, incredibly cheap mortgage due to ideal timing post-2008, we are absolutely struggling, especially now post-pandemic. I cannot fathom trying to buy a house and start a family right now. It's simply not possible for so many of my peers or late 20s. Boomers came up with a far lower cost of living and incredibly easy access to homes. Wages are stagnant for 30 years, so you cannot pretend that this hasn't been a catastrophe for the millenial and now Gen Z ages.

[@birthgap]

Hi Jake - I would never intentionally diminish people's financial challenges - but rather want to explain from historic data that if financial times were better, even then we are unlikely to see an increase in the birthrate. This crisis is a broader societal one.

[@CMoore8539]

Yes you are so right about it! It’s a totally different ballgame now! I remember it!😊

[@willbass2869]

Mortgages were NOT cheap in the '80s. The govt caused rampaging inflation in the '70s through ridiculous spending and non productive govt expansion. In order to "tame" that insidious wealth stealing inflation, Paul Volker, chairman of FedRes jacked up interest rates in the early '80s. Rates got into the high teens. Building industry collapsed because no one could carry a 15% mortgage. I remember entries swathes of "entry level" tract homes where owners simply loaded their belong into a UHaul in the middle of the night and just walked away from their homes. Multiple vacant houses in 1985 Texas. Interest rates have been artificially held down since the mini crash of Oct 87. The various FedRes chairmen since then have recklessly expanded the money supply far beyond the growth in labor productivity and held down rates. You are talking junk.

[@BiblicalBasics]

Your government takes too much tax, that's the problem. It's exactly the same in my country, the UK.

[@YummyFoodOnlyPlz]

Then rent. How do parents in other countries manage without owning a house? It is a perceived hardship that you fabricated in your own head; nobody said you could have your cake and eat it too.

[@SUPER7X]

This topic is really interesting to me because my mom had me, her 1st child, at 40. Thankfully no congenital issues from me being that late haha. My parents wanted a 2nd child and tried for one, but it just didn't happen, so they adopted my sister from India. That adoption was an expensive, long process that a lot of would-be parents aren't able (or willing) to complete. There's another world where that fell through too and I remained an only child. I imagine if my parents had waited just a bit longer, my mother might've been forced join the growing amount of women who'll never have kids. Heavy stuff.

[@sitcomchristian6886]

That's really profound. What a beautiful thing they did by adoption, that's not an easy process. My 3rd is adopted, we're hoping to adopt another next year :)

[@SUPER7X]

@@sitcomchristian6886 Hope it goes smoothly!

[@mrbill2600]

While she was single in the 1970s my wife went to Bolivia to visit a friend. She was offered babies by their mothers if she would simply take them to the US. At the time the Bolivian government would issue a birth certificate stating that the child was yours and born in Bolivia all for under $100. Infants weren't required to have a passport to enter the US and flew for free. But today things are simpler. Just go to the border and you can purchase a baby for less than roundtrip airfare to Bolivia.

[@somerandomvertebrate9262]

The childlessness crisis began at the same time as mothers entered the workforce?

[@jayc342009]

@@pigwank8234 typical wamen are poor victims rhetoric in your comment, stop spreading rubbish.

[@jayc342009]

@@pigwank8234 women leave marriages 70-80% of the time but its men that need "to put their food down"...how about actually holding women accountable for their SHIT taste in men?

[@derekrotondo8315]

@@pigwank8234 It's on both. Men also aren't given the purity that they were guaranteed pre-pill. If women sleep around, they bring less to the table and demonstrate that they prefer men who don't stick around

[@derekrotondo8315]

@@pigwank8234 There wasn't for 170,000 years. No organisms is equipped to evolve in a generation. Heather Heying has an interesting book on it, calling the concept "hypernovelty." Of Boys and Men by Reeves is another good read. It's almost as if an immediate 180 on how humans interact after hundreds of thousands of years isn't working out so so well for either sex

[@imasketcher8005]

The government needs to provide more security for families. Especially with young families struggling due to not putting career first. When two parents need to work full-time it doesn't seem doable for couple who want children.

[@DavidECoy]

The only way to reverse this is to build men back up and start celebrating family life instead of tearing it down.

[@Tony-hu7uk]

You're probably right.

[@TheXantaur]

The problem is not men... its the other side of the equation

[@DavidECoy]

@@TheXantaur I agree but it starts with men. We have far too many weak men that allow these women to act a fool. If every man got off only fans sites and dating sites and stopped simping. These women would have no choice but to fall in line. We already are seeing women being affected by the small amount of men going overseas. First they ignored these men, now they are trying to shame them, next step is having to treat these men correctly so that they will have a chance to be chosen.

[@warh0rn]

I find it odd that the comments all point to delayed child bearing because of financial insecurity but a living wage that supports a stay at home mother is never really discussed.

[@tigermoose4221]

As long as women are working it will not be the norm for a man to make enough by himself to support a family. There is a reason these trends started in the 70s and it rhymes with Weminism

[@jeffreykalb9752]

"When the ordinary thought of a highly cultivated people begins to regard 'having children' as a question of pro's and con's, the great turning point has come." - Oswald Spengler, The Decline of the West, 1918

[@chrishart8548]

I think in the UK renting is not secure enough to start a family. My landlords have sold the property and served me notice on a few occasions. I've basically been on the verge of homelessness at this point. I have a good job but that doesn't guarantee you anything these days. My child has had to move school 4 times because of this.

[@kamrudkd]

researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue. People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her. A lot of guys have never had that. This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that. The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow) Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society. What are we seeing in the west now? Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, anomie and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels. White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes. Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends. White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle. With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be dehumanising and toxic. Peace

[@chrishart8548]

@@kamrudkd well said.

[@kamrudkd]

@Cord Fortina The male to female sex ratios in the UK is 1.05 male to every 1 female. That's in the age category of 15 to 44. Now there are approximately 27 million ppl in that age category. So that means that there are approximately 675,000 EXCESS males in the UK in that age category of 15-44. Not even SINGLE men but EXCESS men. What will its effects be? With figures like this is it any wounder that females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe. From the sad random/stranger murder of sabrina Nessa, aslingh Murphy, Sarah everhard. To drinks spiking, to ME TOO To Rise in London record teenage murders to rise in riots to political extreme movements. The EXPLOSION OF ONLY FANS. Could this be related? The standing British army is approximately 83,000 And we have approximately 675,000 EXCESS MEN. That could mean that 5% of men in this category could possibly never find a long-term monogamous relationship. 🤔

[@jayc342009]

@@kamrudkd you fail to understand London's record teenage murders are mainly because of the rise of single mother household's, most criminals in fact were raised by single mothers. It has nothing to do with there being excess men. "females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe"' - true, but men are still way more likely to be victims of violent crime. Also an excess of 675,000 really isn't much really considering men are more likely to be gay and have disabilities than women are.

[@kamrudkd]

@mimimi queweq no your facts are wrong. Men repot being gay less than women. In the younger cohort of millennials and gen z are more women that identify as lgbtq. This means that there are fewer heterosexual women in that cohort. There are now published figures on it, one even from the UK 2021 census. Just look it up

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

Sometime in the early 80s my wife and I read an economics/relationship article. It’s basic message was that most couples wanted three things. 1-financial security 2-a nice home 3-children The kicker was that the article claimed that the majority of American couples could only manage to afford two of the three.

[@HerrEngelsman]

Old Stefan Molyneux said it before he was banned. Paraphrasing, something like 'animals don't breed well in captivity' talking about this issue once

[@skylinefever]

Our corporate oligarchs want future wage slaves and cannon fodder, and aren't getting any.

[@hunterbidensaidslesion1356]

Huh. That's interesting.

[@hunterbidensaidslesion1356]

I've long thought that it is the nihilism and the fear, rather than genuine pragmatic concern, surrounding the economics of having children. I think a lot of people are simply unwilling to make even a slight reduction in their personal standard of living in order to have kids.

[@alpacacomentadora413]

civilization>barbarism

[@EarthForces]

@@hunterbidensaidslesion1356 this is true. I even contemplated on my own perspective about this and decided I won't get a relationship let alone get married until I reach a certain level of lifestyle. Lucky for me I am a man that has a higher fertility window. Problem is, most women think foolishly they can do the same and pay the price for their life choices.

[@Xiaengao]

40 or 45 years ago a family with just the father working could support a family, buy a house, a nice car, etc... That's a rarity now. Who has the time as well as the money.

[@anniealexander9616]

The bottom line is mothers are punished for being mothers. Last year, I left work 4 hours early to take my daughter to the doctor. I was given a point that cost me 10 hours of bonus time. So, thats 14 hours and i lost overtime pay at the end of the week for the 4 hours. I was exhausted that day from being up since 4am. I had workrd 6 hours before taking my daughter to the doctor. After seeing the doctor, i had to go wait for a prescription. Then i had to provide dinner and do laundry because her sickness was messy. Then up at 4am again....just to find out my male coworker was promoted. I was friends with my coworker who was promoted. He bragged about not paying child support. He said, one mother just raised the kid alone but the other mother had him locked up. After being locked up, his gf would pay to have the warrant removed and that covered child support. The next month, he wouldn't pay until going to jail. He said it went on for months until he got caught cheating on his gf and left the state. His main goals in life is weed and azz. This is who my employer promoted. I quit my job after finding a new one. I told my boss that im sick of working my azz off for him to promote a man who spends him time chatting me up. While im losing time at work and stressing because I'm trying to work 60 hours a week to support my daughter, my ex-husband only pays $436 a month in child support and eat steak and drinks beer at the bar every night. When a mother isnt receiving child support and she asks for help, child support recovery immediately asks her for money. When i retire, i won't receive the same ss payments as men due to less money earned while having children. My childless men friends will have it made. But im the one who has raised 3 productive members of society who are paying taxes and i have 2 grandchildren that will be working in the future. Kids see what their mothers go through and are opting out. Just yesterday, I asked my daughter if she has plenty of birth control pills. He employer doesn't offer insurance and we are stressing over how we will be getting them in the future. She asked a coworker how she gets hers. The coworker told her she has a baby and that baby qualifies her for govt healthcare. My daughter said f no!!!! Her coworker is trapped. Our society will always put her down. She will struggle between needing help from the govt and trying to work overtime. Because when a single mother makes good money, they tax the hell out of her. Ive seen men make comments about how easy we have it as women. I don't see any of them trading places and working and raising kids alone. At Christmas time, womem at work were fighting for overtime. Men just laughed and said they dont need it. Of course not, women are having children but men are childless.

[@ilikecommenting6849]

So you are already instilling in your daughter that a lasting loving marriage with children is not possible. Some fantastic guidance on how to be bitter. After all, if she were to get pregnant you immediately assume she's a single mother. You seem to hate men and focus only on competing with them. Men and women were built to compliment each other not compete with and hate each other.

[@Benboy1980]

I’m raising my kids, my wife has an amazing job. It’s tough but I love it. It’s interesting how most of my male friends still wouldn’t consider it. I’ve pointed out that if they have children, raising them is actually investing in them and their future. Some people see their kids as a hindrance, which makes me wonder why they had them in the first place

[@BrisaRuiva]

Im so sorry to read this 😢 society won’t offer any support for women to have kids and then blame women for not having kids anymore. That’s why I’m never having any kids. Society doesn’t give a shit about women 😢

[@kathryncolton4423]

I’m so sorry about what you have had to deal with. So awful. Are you in the US? Because USA labor laws are some of the WORST in the 1st world when it comes to supporting mothers. In most European countries women receive very generous maternity leave and healthcare benefits, I think in Sweden women basically get like two years of paid leave. So, lack of support for working moms doesn’t seem to be the crux of the declining birth rate, at least in Europe.

[@CM-sy3to]

Find a different environment. In a church of 400, there are 4 divorced moms who are supported emotionally and physically when necessary. The rest are married couples, 90% of the women stay home and raise the family. The 20 year olds are marrying and having babies young with one income. It can still be done, just not in a big city or in a community of affluent people where the brands you buy or where you travel are judgments of your worth.

[@CarmenEdwards-k4s]

I am childless by choice and I often felt children will be a financial burden. It was not a struggle I was not willing to endure. Day to day life is hard and stressful why add to it.

[@johnsmith2221]

You are right children are an unbelievable struggle day to day. No one talks about that. They’re great and I love them and don’t regret it but it is a struggle many days.

[@cosmicartsastrologicalserv242]

I am glad to be living in a time when we don’t have to have children. I never for a moment felt a maternal pang.

[@talco881]

I am barely taking care of myself...now come up with 300,000 dollars to raise one kid. Once I wanted kids but that feeling passed after 30...and as I get older i am good with not having babies. Turns out its not for me after all.

[@TheGio777gio]

Talking about children like you are buying a car from a dealership. Sad. And the saddest part is the most people complain about how expensive are children are from first world countries. Have fun with your “achievements”. If humans were as weak as you are we will not even survive a day.

[@Silver77cyn]

Well said.

[@Zach124869]

When you constantly talk about the dangers of over population; it’s hard to suddenly switch to the dangerous of under population and have people take it seriously.

[@grannyannie2948]

Malthusian beliefs in overpopulation have been around for centuries. They get disproven every generation.

[@clairehann2681]

So true. We've had it shoved down our throats for ages.

[@linmal2242]

My grandmother had nine children, my mother had two, my wife had two so going down, my children have none !

[@npc_v0.36_beta-exe5]

1:19:42 "There is gonna be fewer and fewer people companies to hire" - if that would be the case then the real wages should be going higher. And the throuth is that wage growth is lower than inflation =real wage growth is negative. This is one of the example when the economy is shouting at you that there is abundance of workers / people in the world. I could continue with the housing market, but I think you get my point.

[@jmanakajosh9354]

At 46:50 they're making the same mistake too. My great grandparents had a dosen children, then their kids COLLECTIVELY had less than a dozen. My great grandparents had a farm, my grandparents had gas stations. Loosing agriculture changes the economics of having children.

[@susanarojo3906]

But companies won’t be able to grow as much because there will be less people to sell to.

[@npc_v0.36_beta-exe5]

@@susanarojo3906 That doesn't mean the the quality of life is going down. I see that as like an only child who inherit the family tree's wealth... wealth / GDP could stagnate while GDP per capita could go up.

[@cxa011500]

People in older days also had a community and family to help them. These days, everyone is on their own, so they HAVE to make more money. Having kids when you're broke is crazy. People can't even afford a home these days. Also, at a certain point in history, people had kids to create more "workers" for the family. And you had to have kids in the hope that there was someone around to care for you in your later years. And what about generational poverty? If poor people have children, their children often also end up being poor and having poor children themselves, continuing a cycle of poverty.

[@jackiekjono]

Here is a thing I didn't know when I was younger that younger gals might benefit from- If you go through puberty late, you are significantly more likely to go through menopause early. I started at 16 and was done by 43

[@cthornton523]

Fascinating. I also started at 16 and at 52 it looks like I'll will continue til I'm 60. Thanks for the new interesting topic of research. I opted out of giving birth myself due to health issues however I did adopt 2.

[@anneb889]

Idk, my SIL got her period very young (9yrs old) and by like 30 was only getting her period like 2x a year.

[@krystelhardesty9960]

Wonder if it goes the other way because I started early does that mean I wont go through menopause until I'm 50 that's going to suck. Funny enough I had my surprise baby at 37 love him to death but it was kind of weird at that age with no help and no issues he's 5 now.

[@SmartestDumbGuy]

@@anneb889 birth control messes everything up

[@marysueeasteregg]

Actually that's not likely the case. A large study five years ago of hundreds of thousands of Norwegian women found "age at menopause was almost independent of age at menarche. However, women who were 16 or ≥17 years at menarche (5.3%) reached menopause slightly later than the reference group (13 years at menarche)." see: NIH National Library of Medicine article "The relation of age at menarche with age at natural menopause: a population study of 336 788 women in Norway" April 2018 authors E K Bjelland, S Hofvind, L Byberg, and A Eskild The correlation was weak; the authors conclude the mechanisms for menarche and menopause are probably biologically separate. Prior studies, most or all of them smaller, had found varying results -- some showing no correlation, others showing a correlation one way or the other. My mother had an early menopause; not sure exactly when, but I gathered it was not very long after my younger brother was born in 1960 when our mother was 43. She had reached menarche at 11, especially early for someone born in 1917. I, born in 1957 and having had my first period at a very ordinary 13, had my last at age 44. Probably genetic in my case.

[@user-zz4ug7yg3z]

The middle class is too poor. 2 person household working 3 jobs is surviving paycheck to paycheck in Europe. No responsible person would even begin to imagine bringing babys to this chaos...

[@kenvandeburgt1232]

Parent's Divorce meant I didn't want to get married. National Energy Program destroyed economic opportunity to get married till I was 40. At which point I decided to not play the game at all.

[@sxxarlet]

I’d be really curious about an updated study on the percentage of childless women. It’s refreshing to hear 80% WANTED kids but I feel like the last year and a half so many young girls are being fed how terrible having kids is. I feel like it’s more of a trend now vs when the data started. Such a great topic I’m so glad you’ve been hounding it.

[@broca246]

Year and a half? They been sold this for the last 30 yrs and it has worked sadly.

[@geoffmcintosh3]

Feminism has forced young women into the slave trade(work force) and by the time they wake up… it’s to late. This has been engineered by the elites . Be aware , they do not care about their slave force. Human resource means people are no different than steel to these scumbags

[@Myrslokstok]

Thats because they continue to be girls.

[@Aetriex]

Yep, I am one of those young girls (now a woman). I have never heard any positive things about pregnancy, babies, young children, or teenagers. It's all been packaged to me since I was a young girl as an absolutely terrible time. I still want children, but I have to fight off that programming every time I think about having children. My husband wants kids soon, but I asked for another year to hopefully get the house paid off first, but even still, I associate children with awful times.

[@domcizek]

PLENTY OF DATA ON YTUBE, ALSO, CHECK AROUND WITH ALL YOUR FRIENDS, HOW MANY CHILDREN DO THEY HAVE OR PLAN TO HAVE? WOMEN DO NOT WANT MORE CHILDREN ANYMORE, TO EXPENSIVE

[@matthewmurphy5543]

To my American men in here. No more rings or children till the predatory laws and family court changes. Hold the line kings

[@EarthForces]

This is the biggest elephant in the room NOBODY IS WILLING TO ADMIT IN THE WEST! Do you know that fertility rates are still high in countries that DO NOT HAVE THESE INSANE LAWS? I guess that should be part of the solution right?

[@rb7454]

As much as I agree, feminism isn’t going to go away. It’s become a beast. So find yourself a conservative woman who respects men and their authority in the home, like I did. They are usually in red states.

[@larkatmic]

When women entered the work force in the 70s we became a 2 income economy. When the economy falls, so does the birth rate. Feminism lied to us.

[@mvondoom]

I think a large part of this is the economics, having children is more expensive than it was for previous generations, and the pool of opportunity is smaller. In older social arrangements, children could be seen as an asset, to help with farm work or improve the wellbeing of the whole group. For modern societies, having a child is a liability.

[@JackKnoxx]

Exactly, when a hospital charges you a ton a money to have a child there. It's already hard to deal with that, let alone supporting one or more children for 18 years. Hell probably longer than that as most young adults live with their parents still because college is ungodly expensive and buying a house or even renting is super hard. I think we are just fucked, we will see though. L society

[@JackKnoxx]

You can't even buy a car to a decent price unless you want something that breaks down every month.

[@brushandshovel6512]

I found having children gave my husband and I the most powerful personal growth that I believe we could not have achieved from anywhere else. It was rough at times but we would never change it for the world. Their lust for life keeps us young and excited ❤❤❤

[@petercermak4804]

One of the best episodes so far. Thanks Chris for doing this!

[@kamrudkd]

The west has below replacement level fertility for 4 decades now. Ppl aren't having kids. There are more old white ppl than children. More white ppl die then are born in most countries. About a third of the population is over 65. Marriage and family formation is at all time lows. Children out of wedlock all time highs. Now more black kids go to university then whites as a proportion. White boys from poor backgrounds do the WORST in schools. More young white ppl identifies as LGBTQ+/trans now. (It's legal in the west, so I'm comfortable with that). But they statistically have fewer children. There is huge national debts/gdp. They have been fighting wars in muslim countries iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and quiet wars in African muslim countries. (What did they achieve? Why did they truly go to all these wars? Who will truly benefit?.....ohh you, your children and grandchildren (if you had any) will pay for these wars from YOUR tax money)). So with all this going on, in 20 short years time who will look after the old in the west? Where will the young ppl be, to work and pay taxes to support the NHS, adult social care, pensions etc....there will be MORE old white pensioners then young white ppl that work and pay TAXES. Where will the new consumers, borrowers and economy stimulatetors come from............ If not from the immigrants and the children of the ethnic ppl and Muslims? Is ALL this muslim ppl fault. What do you think?

[@mstorgaardnielsen]

Amazing episode.

[@lexusls4305]

This guy provided some great new info that I had not heard before: That there is a growing segment of “no children” adults

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

Having children is something that should be discussed with people from a young age. The default cultural assumption should be that you're going to have kids in your mid-twenties. Nobody should be forced to, but it should be expected and something to look forward to, because while parenting is hard, it's extremely rewarding in ways that you never imagine it will be. Young men and women need to be taught and prepared for this, and they're just not.

[@skylinefever]

It is rewarding to people who genuinely have parental drive. What worries me is how people will actually get such drive.

[@Katherine-ug5dl]

Society beats education and career into kids from a young age, but not marriage and parenthood. Education is a good thing, but so is family, so why aren't we socializing our children to value both? It's not an either/or but we're treating it that way.

[@curtisbryce5096]

Why is this a bad thing? We built our societies with far less people than we have now. I think the banks and the bureaucracies are worried because the higher the population, the more money they make from taxes and interest.

[@MarkusSchellenberg-wi6bw]

You need to be an economist to believe that there is a catastrophic problem in a world needing to support less people!

[@Dreckmal01]

40 year old male from the US here. I figure I'll probably be alone for the rest of my life. Not really much can be done about it. I'll never be a good enough partner. The grass is always greener, and whatnot.

[@mymangodfrey]

And everyone will blame you. People in the new ideological mainstream will loathe you for your “privilege” and for the “violence” of your “entitlement.” The based minority will tell you that you could have singlehandedly created a different world if you had just gone to the gym more often. You’re part of a giant (giant!) cohort of “useless men” (to borrow a phrase from the Great Depression) whom the rest of society will be very eager to wash its hands of.

[@Tony-hu7uk]

You never know when you might cross paths with the right woman.Get a dog, they're "chick magnets". It's how I met my last one,out walking my dog.

[@jonathanstensberg]

Abortion was a glaring hole in this podcast. What portion of those “unintentionally childless” ended up there because they very intentionally killed their children before they could be born?

[@skylinefever]

Ones that would have sacrificed those children to the weather gods in ancient times, that's who.

[@michinwaygook3684]

Strange you didn't mention one of the most common reasons for people not having children - money. Money is the primary motivator in South Korea followed by a competitive lifestyle that caters to society's most gifted. In South Korea money is associated with happiness and life fulfillment.

[@michaelmontana251]

Then why does sub saharan Africa have 6 babies per woman.

[@michinwaygook3684]

@@michaelmontana251 Because I am talking about the motivating factors in South Korea. I was talking about south Korean culture specifically, not the rest of the world. In South Korea they think money equates to happiness, and their stats are clearly showing this not to be the case. If you have an insane workload to achieve that wealth, only based on the acquisition of that wealth and dreams / desires is not part of it, that person is generally not going to be happier. Their current president has actually advocated for 120 hour work weeks. They now have the lowest birth rate in the entire world. As or the rest of the world the poorest nations tend to have the most children, and actually when Korea was one of those poorest nations they had a lot more children. They are were actually a happier nation when they were poor.

[@DrakenRS78]

The most elitist vs the least - first shall become last and the last shall become first ​@@michaelmontana251

[@edheldude]

I think money and resources is a false argument when you look at reality. It's all about culture and values, and society subsidizing bad behavior (e.g. single motherhood) and human interactions being institutionalized through welfare instead of people relying on each other.

[@michinwaygook3684]

@@edheldude Your description does not match South Korean culture at all. The South Korean government is super corrupt and they far from subsidize bad behavior. The fact that you think single motherhood is bad behavior makes me question your moral compass. South Korean society is a super competitive society that encourages Koreans to put work before home life. Their Conservative president was quoted as saying Koreans should be working 120 hour weeks. As a generalization they spend all their time on education and working. They have some of the highest rates of suicide and depression in the world. They have the lowest birth rate in the world. Koreans aren't having children because it is simply to expensive in their society, and the newer generation want to have a life. Me and my Korean wife said if we have a child he will not get a Korean education because we want our child to have a childhood.

[@Zarih67]

No paid parental leave, no health care, no subsidies for parents and the odds of giving birth where both mom and child survives is abysmal in the US. So, I get it. However, the lower birth rate is the same in Scandinavia which have all the support.

[@screenarts]

Women need a secure home and financial stability to have kids.

[@brianperry4815]

@screenarts What financial stability. I'm 62 years old and I have not seen it in my lifetime. I'd say maybe good economy 20 years out of my life and that's stretching it.

[@bitmau5]

My god, your brain works so fast that you can properly rephrase a question on the spot. Never lose that edge. What ever you're doing now in life, keep doing it. I don't know who you are, I followed a rabbit hole that started with WhatIfAlt and a conversation I was having with a coworker and I shared this because you appeared in my recommended feed after watching just 2, (yes TWO!) population conversations. 100% follow and notifications. Thank you so much for your quick minded conversation, which I thoroughly enjoyed on every conceivable level. I tend to prefer more acedemic and statistical discussions, but this just hit home for me, because a coworker mentioned the subject and I blurted out some nonsense that actually enlightened the conversational topic at that moment before we were rudely interrupted. Rest assured, I shared this with her for my own selfish reason, in order to continue our deepest of intellectual discussions. Thank you for this. Thank you sir.

[@clintkaster6269]

"Moral imperative"? Fuck no. Perhaps we need to consider an economic system that focuses on the well-being and happiness of its citizens rather than constant growth for the benefit of our overlords. I believe, wholeheartedly, in a free market and innovation and entrepreneurship but all those things are built upon the work of society and the rewards need to support that society rather than just build the coolest billion dollar yacht. America was at its best when high tax rates supported education and home ownership. On that note, tax corporate ownership of homes within an inch of its life to make it unattractive to own multiple homes. Homes are for people and they deserve the security of stability. THAT would promote having children.

[@callicordova4066]

Yes!

[@ffn8917]

The problem is actually much worse than the raw numbers will indicate. Because there is a hige increase in psychosocial diseases like autism which prevent individuals from functioning normally in society. These individuals will require intensive care throughout their lives. So the amount of productive adults will be much lower than the raw numbers indicate.

[@Dylan-ko2gj]

That's very true. Didn't even consider that there are a lot of chemicals we are exposed to that make conceiving a child difficult as well

[@jayc342009]

The amount of estrogen in our drinking water might play a part in this too

[@hazchemel]

A girlfriend adamantly wanted neither marriage nor children, and I felt the same. Later, she wanted us to be a couple, but unmarried and childless. This was unbearable for me, yet I didn't want to say no. In the moment after her proposal, as a way out, I agreed to her couple idea but only if we married and had children. For couple of beats there was stunned silence and I prepared for her rejection of the whole project, as neither of us wanted to do that. Then to my total surprise she replied with a distant look and strange voice that yes, and she will have the children she always wanted!!. She was as shocked by her reply as me, and my bluff was called. We married and had a son and a daughter, and she died a married mother 5 years later.

[@EastMidlandsDUTCHess]

I love how Stephen loves all people and shows great empathy. I also love how he believes he “lost his accent”, but sounds very Irish.

[@georgesontag2192]

I was married, had 2 children. But have not seen my children in twenty years. When the wife divorces and then alienates the father out of the children life, you can't do a thing about it. Change the custody laws to 50 50 if you want a better society. Women get full custody 90% of the time.

[@NondescriptMammal]

Why wouldn't we want birth rates to decrease? The population has been increasing dramatically for several decades now, and many of our worst problems are caused or exacerbated by this population explosion. It took all of human history, however many tens of thousands of years, until about 1800 or so, for the human population on this planet to reach one billion. When I was about 4 years old, the population had reached 3 billion for the first time. During my own lifetime, a very short period of time compared to human history, I have watched it go from less than 3 billion, to 4 billion, then 5, then 6, then 7... and now it is fast approaching 8 billion... it has nearly tripled during my relatively short time on this planet. Why do so few people find this alarming? And now that the population might "collapse", now we should be concerned?

[@timthetiny7538]

Because you due out that way. Korean TFR is 0.5. Which means their population I'd collapsing by 75% every generation. In 50 years, Korean culture won't exist

[@sanashy9024]

It is actually good for the world that people are thinking very carefully about having children, and women are getting educated and getting higher salaries. People will have children whatever happens. Population will replenish whether you like it or not. But we cannot “reengineer society” so that young women marry young or dial back the progress that have brought us greater wealth and prosperity.

[@sanashy9024]

@@Snake369 I highly doubt that. As long as there are poor countries around the world, population rise will continue.

[@sanashy9024]

@@Snake369 You do understand that the biggest factor to the decline of birthrates is that more women are now getting better education and economic opportunities, thus most delay childbearing or even refusing to have children? Population increase is at the expense of limiting women of these opportunities and setting them back from personal progress and pursuit of self-interest. You also do understand that the solution to your pessimism is that more young women get pregnant and give birth right? Well, in today's world, unless you are in afghanistan or in a totalitarian dystopia, you can't force childbearing on women. Your argument has no other direction but to suggest that more women get pregnant, or force people to create families of 4-7 or whatnot and struggle financially. You've got to get real with what you want in this conversation.

[@sanashy9024]

@@Snake369 and don't assume that I did not watch and finish this video and the video you mentioned about this topic. I've carefully listened, and it's all implied complementarianism and doomsdaying (aside from the stats trend showing population decline which is the cost of progress). Again, populations will replenish and nature will find a way to survive and sustain life on earth.

[@chlopakzpolski]

Women need children more than education or high salaries. Ask every "succesfull" childless woman 50 + what she regrets. Martin Monroe after 9 abortions, was not ale to get pregnant, she got depression and made suicide accidentaly or not. But i am happy You saying ppl are more thinking about parenthood than doing it actually, if its true number of single moms is lower than 30 years ago ?

[@MichaelPickles]

This really worries me about my daughter and son. The only way I think I can support it/ fix it is to educate my daughter and son and tell them that I will financially support them to have a family

[@evilds3261]

Make sure you do the math first or your retirement could be spent in poverty.

[@jmanakajosh9354]

Loosing agriculture changes the economics of children. There is no mutual support for a unified group, you bring kids into the world only to send them elsewhere to make a table with food.

[@unreadlibrarian]

@@evilds3261 Or in the company of your family. As was historically the norm.

[@pattylyons9645]

Just because you have children is no guarantee they will take care of you when you're elderly. Even if parents and children had a good relationship, kids leave the nest and establish their own careers and families. Many move very far away from their parents and extended family. It's worse if a person had a bad relationship with their parents. There are so many people in nursing homes who have kids and grandkids who never visit or call them or even send a card for birthdays and holidays.

[@101ineke]

Jesus said that childeren make their own live and go out. that is the function of the parents to raise people and live their live. 10 commandant are old testament, we are christen New testament.

[@BeachandHills-hb2pq]

@@101ineke What an excuse. Do you run a care home? You going to make money off this?

[@101ineke]

@@BeachandHills-hb2pq nope, as an sensible being your end you live if you not take care of your self anymore.

[@BeachandHills-hb2pq]

@@101ineke ok so you beleave in total individual ieven at the family level. The western nuclear family was considered extreme historically. Mums and daughters still lived with 1 mile and helped each other. Your preferred living style must mean your American I saw what you want in films. The live any were and move anywhere lifestyle with no family as such.

[@101ineke]

@@BeachandHills-hb2pq I am 59 my mother is 93 and dying. I have left an older sister that's it. When your parents get childeren on a older age, you end with nothing. And even big family 's die

[@JR-yd6ug]

I am married with 2 kids at 41. One of my priorities was to have a family. It's wasn't a priority for many friends my age. Both female and male. Maybe I am weird. I never saw very successful men as men to have children with. Maybe because the extremely successful men I knew during childhood didn't have good relationships with their children. I think we need to realign our priorities. Make the workplace more family friendly. Be more honest. Having the same values is far more important then wealth. Educating young women about the fertility window is so important. Stop lying to women that they can have it all. Women without nannies and assistants cannot. Having children requires sacrifices for both men and women. It's not a bad thing.

[@marc5279]

this interview is so good. Chris, the people you bring in and the way you put themes forward is just on top of everything else theres's in here

[@madbowler6]

Great stuff as always, Chris! Your channel is very underrated, but I am confident it will continue to grow in popularity because your subject matter is both interesting and important. Keep up the good work, brother! Glad to have you in Texas!

[@MrBlues113]

You should do another podcast about the other side of the story, the very taboo topic and almost never spoken of regretting having children.