The Ultimate 3oz Cook Kit - 6 Stoves Tested!

My 2024 Gear - lighterpack.com/r/bnuqop
Fast, Efficient, Durable, Simple, Compact, Quiet
All of it weighs 3oz. Even the lightest gas canister setups weigh 10 total ounces, there's got to be a better way. This alcohol/esbit setup hits as many of the high points as possible.
The first 4 minutes explain the components, the rest of the video is for stove nerds. Links to the items below.
Cup 1.5oz + Stove 0.4oz + Top 0.3oz + Screen 0.5oz + Fuel Bottle 0.25oz = 2.95oz
Links here
Toaks 550 Light - amzn.to/2UcJePi
QiWiz Screen - qiwiz.net/Windscreens.html
Ruta Locura Lid - www.rutalocura.com/Carbon_Lids...
Gram Weenie Pro - dutchwaregear.com/product/bat...
Minibull Elite - www.minibulldesign.com/produc...
No handle Pot - www.toaksoutdoor.com/products...
QiWiz Tripod Stand - qiwiz.net/Burners.html
Rubber Top for Toaks Pot Cold soaking (untested) - amzn.to/2SwLI9e
Annotations:
At 2:53 I meant to say boil times, not burn time.
I said the stove weighs 0.3oz, it's actually 0.4oz
I do not burn my fingers on the no handle pot, I always have gloves and a buff.
Yes, I have used Caldera Cones, but the 550 Caldera cones get REALLY slow boil times.
DISCLAIMER: This video and description contain affiliate links, which means that
if you click on one of the product links, I’ll receive a small commission at no extra
cost to you. This helps support the channel and allows us to continue to make
videos like this. Thank you for your support!

[@henrymuse4385]

Always love hearing what you have to say and learning something new. Thanks for another informative video.

[@MattShafter]

Thanks Henry

[@GrumpyLittleMan]

Just stumbled upon this review. Really informative. I loved the "why" part, and your descriptions of the amounts of fuel that are needed with the wind screen applications were really helpful. Thanks again!

[@MattShafter]

I always talk about why. There's no point in just showing you stuff.

[@57125]

Great content like usual. Glad to see you posting again.

[@MattShafter]

Just had to make sure school was under control first!

[@chadnorth9945]

Haven't seen a lot of pro-alcohol videos/commentaries in a while and appreciate your take on it. I'm a total alcohol stove fan/user and find that they only need a little spark to light (will need to warm up the alcohol with body heat in colder temps, but I've done so well below freezing). Vargo's Titaniun Flint Lighter is great as is Tortoise Gear's Firefly ferro rod (which fits in the toothpick slot on a SAK Classic) and both only weigh a few grams. A full ferro rod isn't much more than those either and works great as well. Like you, I'm surprised some alcohol stoves are so complicated/have too many parts.

[@steve_____K307]

Thank you for contributing this content -- you did an excellent job with the topic. Keep up the good work...

[@MattShafter]

Thanks steve

[@EspenFrafalne]

I really like my titanium alcohol stove. Reasonable weight, good quality, and best of all; it has 1 set of jet holes on the top ring, and another ring of jet holes on the lip below this. If i remove the cross stand and place the pot directly on the stove, i only get the secondary ring of jet holes, which - after cooling down for 30 seconds - provides perfect heat for simmering or frying eggs 👍

[@MattShafter]

I miss my Ti alcohol stoves!

[@jpawl4362]

Thanks Matt...really appreciate your posts.

[@MattShafter]

You're welcome. Thank you for watching.

[@vanguardcycle]

what a great rundown! thanks man 🙏

[@MattShafter]

Hey, it was easy!!

[@timporter8886]

Great little post, really enjoyed it! Just getting into alcohol stoves and I like your take on this subject. Well done!

[@MattShafter]

Thanks sir!

[@davidson_oldbull_sectionhiker]

I am a BRS user but I really like your video and all of your explanations. Thanks

[@MattShafter]

Thanks Warren! I like that BRS too when i'm going to be cooking alot more.

[@dnablood2]

Thank you, Matt.

[@MattShafter]

Your welcome!

[@ScottH65]

Great video Matt. I have been watching your channel for the last year or two and all of your content has really helped me get my base weight down. I started off with the standard 15 or higher base weight and then got down to the 9-pound range on the JMT this year. Currently bottoming out around 9.5 pounds with a bear canister and looking to shed an extra two ounces or so. I currently use Esbit tabs in conjunction with an Evernew 900/Caldera Cone setup. The larger capacity keeps the wife happy on our annual JMT treks but always try to push her level of tolerance wherever applicable. Knocking down my stove capacity seems to be an easy route to accomplish this and thinking that a 550ml or 600ml capacity should be tolerable. I also looked at the Caldera Keg which is a clear winner for weight to volume ratios but only if ditching the protective Caddy and taking a gamble on how long the system lasts before reaching a failure point. I think the caddy brings the setup up to somewhere around 6 ounces which totally defeats the purpose in my opinion. The one question I do have on your setup is how you go about working with the hot water. Are gloves sufficient enough for you or do you use a sleeve of some sort? Sounds like the handle version would only be slightly heavier than using a sleeve and curious if you would recommend one over the other from a weight and simplicity factor? Keep up the great work!

[@MattShafter]

Careful, that beer can keg will break quick! I killed mine after 14 days of hiking. Hot water; I always have a buff. I just let the water settle a second, then grab it with the buff

[@Drenger7]

Superb video! I’m gonna give alcohol a try!

[@MattShafter]

Sweet!

[@railwaystationmaster]

Superbly informative and well resourced video , i totally get your weight to daily usage rational , the quest for the absolute lightest practical cook kit is for me predicated on boiling just water for a hot drink as opposed to cooking a meal , so i get a smaller lighter package . You may want to check out the TOAKS syphon stove made of titanium and would i believe really fit nicely into your system , a 30ml nalgene bottle fits sweetly inside for even greater portability .

[@terryshrives8322]

Really cool, I use my gram weenie pro the most. Works great

[@MattShafter]

It's a very nice stove

[@willek1335]

Hi. Interesting setup. I learned some that I will use later. Thanks. Here's what worked for me that I seldom see other people do. When I'm solo, I always pour warm water either into other containers or use it as a warm drink mug. I seldom put oils and heat together, because then I'm left with the chore of scrubbing. I hate cleaning everyday, on cold trails when you're 'nackered. You also have to bring jet another item, a scrubber. If I want a warm meal, I full boil my 220 ml. (Snowpeak) and mix it with lukewarm water (30%), in a separate, disposable container. That gives me good enough amount, jet no more. This tiny thing takes up no space in my pack. Small cups can work and is such a delight to carry. I primarily go no-cook and coffee, but if I cooked meals everyday, then I think your system would be great. Cheers.

[@MattShafter]

Good advice!

[@yearofthegarden]

The Zelph modded toaks 550 with cone setup is my stand by. I really like the slow burn stoves as I am never in a rush, and I dont like dealing with priming, so a sgt burner is even lighter, lasts forever, no priming, and I got the whole thing down to 2.8oz. with the starlyte or sgt, I can cook white rice and lentils, but it requires letting the pot sit past cook time or adding a cozy after burn time in the winter, and soaking the lentils. best setup ever Thanks for not putting your alcohol in your cup, everyone seems to do it, but I found so many times that the altitude pressure will cause the bottle to leak at some point, and I'd rather store a sack of coffee in my cup rather than poison.

[@MattShafter]

I need to talk about that pressure bottle change more. Do you know how to mitigate it other than remembering to balance the pressure yourself? SGT?

[@xenaguy01]

@@MattShafter SGT might be the Sgt Rock Ion Stove. (?) Just a thought about the pressure change, I've not tried this . . . If you squeeze some air out of the bottle before closing it, do you think that might make it not leak as it heats up during the day?

[@GavTatu]

I made a spygyver stove, ultralight and works great !

[@MattShafter]

Good to know!

[@Motorep146]

I hope someone takes over the manufacturing of the Ruta Locura carbon lids. I've been searching for a used one for my Toaks 550 since they stopped production.

[@markcummings6856]

True, especially if you can buy partial fuel at each town stop. I hate buying a new heet bottle every other town or so, and having to emptying half of it out bc I don’t want to carry 12 oz.

[@MattShafter]

Yeh, it's good to check hiker boxes or have a fuel splitting friend.

[@E_Clampus_Vitus]

These Heet containers are hot garbage. I just used the product for the first time. Trying to pour fluid out the tiny opening and the fluid runs out, runs all the back down the neck, and all over my hand. I can’t imagine ever trusting this container.

[@prstyzq7424]

Hi Matt, good video as always I am considering switching to alcohol too, do you think your system can do a simmer boil? I have included rice in my backpacking food menu and would like to make it work

[@MattShafter]

Ooooo, good question. You know, the way I would tackle rice etc, is cold soaking it before finally cooking it. Cold soak it for ~1.5 hours, then boil it up. That way you're not adding simmer rings and/or weird stoves that you don't really want. I would experiment that way first. But if you like cooking that way then go for it. Flat Cat Gear seems to be really into simmering, but his systems are somewhat complex.

[@prstyzq7424]

@@MattShafter surprisingly i had been doing it for quite a while, i cold soaked it so it didnt take that long to be fully cooked. But i always simmer it after bringing it into boil. But that's a good point Matt! I will play with it to see if skipping the simmer part would work Btw after watching your 7lb gear list, now i am working mine toward yours, great insight and keep it coming please! Look forward to your Aeon Li tent review before i finally pull the trigger when it is back into stock. Hope it works for you Thanks

[@backkat9475]

Nice detailed video. Tinny makes some great stoves. I have found my Evernew pots to be slightly lighter than my comparable Toaks. Will check out the lid to see if it fits Evernew. Totally agree on not needing a full boil to rehydrate and save fuel. Thanks!

[@MattShafter]

Tinny needs to do that mini bios stove again. I want to try that.

[@backkat9475]

If you haven't tried the Gnome turbo, that is my favorite. Haven't verified weight.

[@MattShafter]

@@backkat9475 Good on a narrow pot? What's the weight?

[@backkat9475]

Just weighed. Gnome is 11g without cover. 16 with. Evernew 500ml with handle is 55g without a lid. I use Tinnys stainless stand at 24g. Trimmed a windscreen to 6g. Heavier than your setup, but I just like the ease for me.

[@MattShafter]

@@backkat9475 Does the gnome turbo really require a stand? Would it be too unstable otherwise?

[@LeeEarly1]

Did you ever test cold soaking with those rubber tops? Really interested to see if they fit tight enough (I'm skeptical)

[@MattShafter]

I don't quite trust it! I would go ziplock cold soaking!

[@magnusdagbro8226]

I use a 120ml soft pouch-style bottle for my fuel, it's the most fuel I've been able to nest in my 550 Toaks, along with a red bull can stove, foldable spork and a mini Bic. You can find the pouch bottles as fruit smoothies in the kids food aisle (not sure about the US though)

[@MattShafter]

Yeh, we have those pouches for kids too. Good idea!

[@GavTatu]

i have a zelph'ish 2 gram stove i made...works for a boil !

[@RogerEcks]

Looks like the Minibull Elite is no longer offered or at least the site is down, any suggestions?

[@MattShafter]

He retired but I heard he’s on Etsy occasionally! I like the Gram Weenie as well. I’d go that way!

[@tomnoyb8301]

1) Capillary stoves produce better vertical blue flame, which should be more efficient. Because capillary gas/flame exits vertically, instead of sideways like the stoves shown here, the heat of the flame spends more time on the pot before escaping. 2) Ideal flame to pot distance is 1.25" to 1.5" for a vertical-flame (capillary-stove). 3) The key factor is time. Time heat spends on the pot. That's why Caldera's work so well; they create a hot pocket/zone where heat is trapped alongside the pot. Since you're carrying a similar amount of windscreen, one wonders why you don't simply bend the windscreen into a cone-shape and trap more heat next to the pot? Since your stoves already have pot-support built-in, the cone needn't provide pot-support.

[@jonwlindberg]

Great video and I love your channel. I did one of the QiWiz dual burners and it is fantastic. There is probably a place and time for the various systems but the Dual Burner blooms immediately and brings 2 cups to boil quickly. Esbit-able as well. Love to hear your thoughts on that one. I bought the small and large and went back and gifted several to fellow hikers. Very light. Thanks for making the videos. Great channel. Love the simplicity of your message and fairness in comparisons. Thank you.

[@MattShafter]

Thanks Jon!! I'll have to check that out!

[@jonwlindberg]

MattShafter he has a video on his Burner tab at his site that summarizes. I was skeptical but it turns out that guy know his stuff. I blend my kits in many ways and everything that I swap out from UL hiking I move over into ‘get back home’ bags which I stash in my vehicles. I plan on keeping a small alcohol stove in each of my those vehicles in case of crisis. Once in a while they prove helpful at a remote soccer game as well. Great little stoves. Cheers.

[@jonwlindberg]

qiwiz.net/CookingOptions.html

[@lukejarvie4082]

Hey, what kind of felt did you use on the GWP? Did you cut it yourself?

[@MattShafter]

I ordered a bit of felt from Minibull designs and cut it myself.

[@aparecidomiranda6637]

Ótimo vídeo Parabéns boa diga Obrigado 👍👍🇧🇷

[@MattShafter]

Thank you!

[@imlancedamnit]

Slightly a dumb question... but with the Rutra lid could you use a fire + grate to heat up the water? I’m wondering if this could damage the lid.

[@MattShafter]

I wouldn't get too much heat around the lid, but I think it would be fine it the fire was lower.

[@nobison6185]

Nice set up Matt. I have an alcohol system of similar weight and efficiency (DIY). Love how quiet they are for stealthy early coffee.

[@MattShafter]

I never remember that positive, you don't wake others up.

[@kreg621]

Hi Matt, can I use unleaded gasoline for the alcohol stove? Awesome setup btw :)

[@MattShafter]

Never tried it! I would imagine it wouldn't work as well.

[@xenaguy01]

Alcohol stoves are for alcohol only. Using any petroleum product (gasoline, white gas, Coleman fuel, acetone, diesel, kerosene) will create an explosion danger, as well as creating gobs of soot on your pot.

[@druhol6753]

Any idea where the mini bull elite can still be purchased?

[@MattShafter]

Some people say he occasionally sells them on Etsy.

[@taylordanetriplett]

I see that lid is discontinued. Do you have any more recommendations? Also, the Gram Weenie Pro has a cold-weather version that includes a "cold weather wrap." Looks like its the same thing that comes with the Minibull and should replace the need for the felt. Can you confirm this? Thanks!

[@MattShafter]

Maybve a coffee can top? That could work at times. Yes, the cold weather wrap would be even better for priming the stove!

[@andrewmcgaha9629]

coming in Hot a year later. Send Josh an email at [e-mail]. He still makes them, they just are not on his site. The Cold Weather GWP is backordered with no ETA at Dutchware, but they sell the fiberglass wick so you can easily do it yourself.

[@DavidK11059]

Do you have a recommendation on an alcohol stove for a wider pot like the Evernew 900 mL? It looks like the Minibull Elite is kinda wide and would work well with a wider pot.

[@MattShafter]

I haven't had a wide pot in a long time. I would try the minibull under a 900ml! ... I REALLY want to give the evernew 570 real bad. Low weight and wide stance to capture more heat.

[@DavidK11059]

@@MattShafter Thanks for the advice. Been thinking of giving alcohol stoves another try. Might go with the minibull.

[@durwoodhill2798]

Matt...someone asked below about how you measure your fuel when dispensing for the stove and you said you eye it or you might bring a little measuring cup. I added the following to that strand and thought you might also find it helpful "the Liberty Mountain Twin Neck Fuel Bottle holds 8 fl oz and one of the necks allows you to measure the fuel and that same neck has a squirt top for dispensing. It's also pretty light, I think mine weighs about 1.8 oz. You can buy if from there site for $5.99.". I'm not sure if you see replys to the comments below so I thought I'd add it here in case you don't. BTW...thanks for the video...I've actually altered (and I think improved) my cook setup as a result...so thanks!!

[@MattShafter]

Ahhhh good idea for the bottle. Alot of people would like that.

[@urs7288]

www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=017740233976048703536:-wa-mnapyra&q=backpackinglight.com/how-to-make-alcohol-stove-snuffle-flask/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjo7Pjsou3oAhXCkFwKHXHRDBIQFjAAegQIARAC&usg=AOvVaw1hOa4zDtm7tOTF0tBDqDO2 My solution. For now, I am happy with the "simple-simple" version, but sealing the inside of the lid with some silicone. Alcohol "creeps" under the hot glue used to join the syringe to the lid of the bottle.

[@MattShafter]

@@urs7288 Heyyyy that's cool.

[@73N5H1]

Fancy feast stove is the best alcohol stove imo

[@mainehiker6157]

Do you remember which lid your 550 took? (1-4)?

[@MattShafter]

#2 lid

[@morrisg007]

Matt, what’s the name of the pot lid you’re using. And where can they be acquired?

[@mikeb7117]

www.rutalocura.com/Carbon_Lids.html

[@MattShafter]

Hi Morris. Links are in the description.

[@TesterBoy]

Why does the Gram Weenie Pro need felt around it to prime better? They do make a cold weather version that has a cold weather wrap around the base for just 2 bucks more.

[@MattShafter]

Good point. I wanted to see if it would bloom ok without that wrap. It didn't do so well, so I picked up the felt, which does a very good job. You can also buy the wrapping material yourself and glue it on.

[@gordonmurdoch3811]

You say that the gram weenie is heavier so more energy is required to heat the mass of the stove to achieve bloom. It also looks that the gap between the walls of the gram weenie is larger than that of the other stove, this will also result in a slower bloom time. Add these together and surprise surprise the gram weenie will be slower. ATB @@MattShafter

[@kevans2337]

How do you buy the minibull ? I can't find it. Help !

[@MattShafter]

I think he shut it all down for good! Booooo

[@kevans2337]

Oh, well I guess I'll check out the Dutchware one. Thank you.

[@brian_onthetrail]

New to alcohol stoves. Sounds like you usually use .5 ounce of fuel for regular weather. How do you measure that when filling your stove? Thanks

[@MattShafter]

I just eye it or I might bring a little measuring cup. If I am a little under I never care. Even it I only hit 180F my food is still pretty dang warm 10 minutes later.

[@durwoodhill2798]

Brian...the Liberty Mountain Twin Neck Fuel Bottle holds 8 fl oz and one of the necks allows you to measure the fuel and that same neck has a squirt top for dispensing. It's also pretty light, I think mine weighs about 1.8 oz. You can buy if from there site for $5.99.

[@wanttogo1958]

@@durwoodhill2798 can retail customers purchase directly from Liberty Mountain? I noticed they call themselves a Wholesaler.

[@xenaguy01]

14:00 Since the outer wick aids bloom times by heating the alcohol reservoir inside the stove, I think it might give you a slightly faster bloom if you lowered the wick.

[@MattShafter]

Nice tip! More and more I go to my gas stove. Alcohol has been banned in so many places.

[@xenaguy01]

@@MattShafter And it's too bad. Just because a coupe of idiots started fires.

[@mcgriddle552]

Havent included or added the weight of your ignition source or utensil(s) Cool kit though. I really need one of those carbon lids that arent available for order anymore

[@MattShafter]

Yes, I leave that out because those are two items you'll likely carry, even if you're cold soaking or no cook. That makes most sense to me. Alot people leave out much more for no other reason to make the number look better.

[@mcgriddle552]

@@MattShafter true

[@railwaystationmaster]

SPOILER The RUTA LOCURA lids SOLD OUT EVERYWHERE !

[@igorstrauss7335]

didt you think that capilarity stove will be good partner to caldera system? Some friends say to me that capilarity stove requires much oxigen, and caldera system block part of oygen, making this combination will be uneffective. But yes, become a system litle bit heavy.

[@flashmanv3260]

I use alcohol stoves the most. I also hate to carry the canister weight and extra fuel. On a longer trip it is more of a toss up as far as disadvantage with the weight and fuel since you are using more fuel in the canister. I also just like the no sound cooking with alcohol. I do a bit of solo trips and at the end of the day I don't care to hear the sound of the stove, just a personal thing. I also spend hours backpacking in a day so have never found that the extra few min matter to me to heat a meal, some people just want to cook fast, alcohol is slower for sure. Under windy conditions even slower so not a good choice if you are an impatient person in a rush for sure. For me the disadvantage of alcohol is it takes a little more time as fuss. I like playing with the stove so I don't mind, but someone not wanted to deal with that, I can see the advantage of a canister. It is a light and go no fuss setup.

[@Surfergirlmeetsmountains]

have you heard of Firebox stoves? If so, what do you think of them?

[@MattShafter]

The problem I have with fire stoves is there are sometimes burn bans out west, but out east there's generally wetter conditions. I don't carry a knife to process wood. I also don't want to take time finding fuel. The ash it produces isn't Leave No Trace either. But wood stoves can fit into certain types of trips. Maybe I should try one!?

[@weatherstorms]

I would use a cake pan and drill air holes in it so it can mimic a heat diffuser so you don't have to worry about your cookware being covered in soot, and getting all of that in your pack@@MattShafter.

[@borealphoto]

Firebox weigh more but they're more fun. You don't need a knife to cut finger-size sticks. While ashes are visible, they have a much smaller environmental impact than any processed fuel (extraction, processing, transport, containers). Anyway, my favorite alcohol stove can be made on the spot using a pocket knife. No stand needed and It blooms in seconds: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5qbpWamntukqs0

[@johannesbeiser6036]

Does the Stove really need more fuel for the full cook or will it simply burn less fuel in a specific amount of time producing less heat but the same overall heat ? I thought the heat given by 1oz of fuel is always the same only the rate at which it burns / speed differs depending on how much oxygen it gets?

[@MattShafter]

The stove will need more fuel when it's cold, and/or when the wind is up and you have to use the windscreen. This makes for a hotter burn, fuel will go from liquid phase to gas phase, and there won't be enough O2 and you loose a little efficiency.

[@robertcwillifordii2630]

Heat retention is the name of the game in the boil time/fuel consumption efficiency equation. In your setup, the heat is reflected back to the burner from the top (metal pot bottom), the bottom (metal plate), and the side (metal windscreen). This heat retention is what boosts the fuel consumption... not the lack of O2, as you stated. The fuel gassifies more quickly, the hotter it gets (that's why you prime a burner on the outside, to begin with).... which is why more fuel is needed with the windscreen closed.... The totality of your setup is just one big burner super-charger. The windscreen just completly optimizes the heat retention, boosting power, you are harnessing to operate the burner by using reflective heat to boost it. A Caldera Cone IS the most effective heat retention windscreen out there because it encompasses the full pot, all the way to the top. The ones that wrap around a pot only part way up the pot, to accommodate pot handles, are not as efficient at heat retention. While the straight vertical windscreens are the least fuel efficient because of the proximity to the burner: reflecting back more heat, in turn, boosting the fuel consumption. The Caldera Cones retain heat all the way to the top of a pot (, but do not reflect heat back to the burner, making it boost the fuel consumption, because of the relative width of the base of the cone, separating it from the burner.

[@scottburleson7215]

Matt, I love your videos ... and wanted to go with this; however, I think that if comparing to canister setup, you have to also include the weight of the alcohol (which 1 oz volume weighs essentially 1 oz of weight). So, for a 5-day trip, boiling three cups per day, that would be 15 oz of alcohol. Am I missing something? It seems that the alcohol stoves only have weight advantages for weekend trips.

[@scottburleson7215]

Obviously - this depends upon efficiency, etc. .. after a little research, it looks like some are able to boil a up with a 1/2 oz of alcohol... which would mean that you'd have 7.5 oz of alcohol minimum, but still a setup that's roughly the same weight (if not more) as the canister stove. ... and the extra trouble of worrying about the alcohol spilling, wind, etc. Am I missing something?

[@MattShafter]

Ooo I only boil one time a day and on most days I'll use 0.5oz of fuel per boil. But you're right, if you're boiling all the time, or it's an unusually long trip, then canisters win! But, if it's a 4day trip, wind wont be too obnoxious, and I can legally use it, then I'm taking the alcohol for sure!

[@teddgram]

Perhaps this would help. I came across this a while back. I found this handy for calculating my fuel requirements for trips. www.howardjohnson.name/Backpacking/Stove/Stoves.htm

[@nedsled2994]

@Scott The alcohol has it best weight savings compared to a canister when you are not using all the fuel in the canister. If you went on a trip that used the full canister your setup with alcohol would be heavier. Well at least to "start" with. You have to carry the dead weight of the canister the "full" time, where end of trip with alcohol you are almost out of fuel and the alcohol bottle does not weigh much.

[@xenaguy01]

One fluid ounce of alcohol does not weigh one ounce, it weighs only about 0.8 oz. Choosing the right alcohol stove/windscreen combo means about 1/2 fl oz (0.4 oz by weight) per meal. The small canisters weigh 4 oz empty, the alcohol bottle (4 fl oz) weighs about 0.75 oz empty. That's a difference of 3.25 oz empty weight, an immediate 6-1/2 meal advantage for alcohol. (You can carry 6-1/2 meals in weight instead of an empty canister of weight.)

[@pemirat]

Did the cold soaking lid work out?

[@MattShafter]

It does pretty. I only ziplock cold soaked with it over the mug once. I do not enjoy cold soaking so much. Only when it's hot out.

[@pemirat]

@@MattShafter Cold soaking can save fuel. You can still warm up your food, but you don't have to simmer it to fully rehydrate the food. I don't know myself, just reiterating something I read.

[@KrizAkoni]

Great evolution of your setup! I think the light Ti Toaks, with or without handles, with the Locura lid, is the pinnacle of lightweight cook pots. Surprisingly, the Starlyte is really only good in an enclosed environment, like under a cone, where it can heat up and burn well. Regardless, it's slow...way slow...and really not much more fuel efficient than where you are at with this. It's what I use now. I had an idea for a side burner made from a tiny aluminum travel hairspray unit...have not tried it yet though and also worried about stability. One thing I have had very good luck with is a simple tea-light stove. I think it would work well in your setup. Great comprehensive video!

[@MattShafter]

Your 550 caldera cone video and a few other data points told me that the caldera starlyte burn time was a tad high. It could mean a setup to eat time of almost 30 minutes. Thanks for your video!

[@KrizAkoni]

Thanks! Yep, under normal use, I'm usually doing a 1 cup boil - out on the trail I usually get about a 12 minute boil(ish) and then an 8 minute soak - it's at least 20 minutes no matter how I slice it.

[@praktika1082]

Whenever I see one of your videos, I always wonder if you've slapped someone who plays music through a Bluetooth speaker while walking a trail yet.

[@MattShafter]

I’m doin 25 to Life for SLAPPIN!!!!

[@praktika1082]

@@MattShafter get a new lawyer if your current one couldn't argue self defence under that circumstance.

[@lifthearth]

I was excited to try out the gram weenie stove based on your review but found the fancy feast, with the Toaks 550, is still superior. Instantly blooms, less fuel and equal boil time, so more efficient use of fuel, lighter weight, didn’t have a larger flame on the bottoms than the gram weenie....

[@MattShafter]

Hrmm strange. My Zelph Fancee Feest is heavier than the Gram Weenie, what fancee feest do you have? I just retested the Zelph on 1.5 cups, behind a screen and I got a 5:52 boil time on fresh Heet fuel. That's over a minute slower. I remember doing at least 5 runs with the Fancee Feest and it wasn't getting near the Gram Weenie and Elite. What's your screen and is it around the stove? Surprised, Fancee feest still seems too wide for a 550 and the pressure-less design also wasn't as good in the wind for me. Edit: I took the screen away and I see that the Fancee Feest does perform pretty damn well in a still room. The flames do not ride up at all and the boil time was 4:55. I did all my testing behind a screen. That may be the difference? Let me know what your setup is. Thanks!

[@lifthearth]

Matt , very interesting without the windscreen! I did my test indoors without the windscreen too. I was hitting boils around 4:20 using the Zelph version also. I also use denatured alcohol instead of the Heet. Not sure if that makes a difference. The gram weenie flame plumed out much wider than the Fancee Feast enveloping the sides of my 550. Maybe I got a bad gram weenie. My Fancee Feast is .8 ounces. The gram weenie with the winter wrap is 1.1 ounces. The gram weenie took forever to prime even with the winter wrap. The only downside I’ve ever worried about with the Fancee Feast is how durable it is. I was hopeful with your description that the gram weenie might bring the durability and everything else... it certainly seems very stout. I’m amazed at how well my Fancee Feast performs. Nothing beats it. I’ve boiled water in 7°F using an ounce of fuel with the Fancee Feast. I totally agree with your assessment on alcohol stoves for the shorter 2-3 day trips and lighter weight solution! Regards, Dan

[@MattShafter]

@@lifthearth Yeh, try using HEET and see what results you get. Also, put it behind a windscreen and see what your times on 0.5oz of fuel are. I bet they get near what I have been getting in my testing. I always like to test mine behind a screen because that's how I use it in the field. All these KZbin guys do their reviews in the most IDEAL conditions possible. Still fun to mess around with though.

[@xenaguy01]

@@lifthearth HEET is 99% methanol, heating value 9,800 BTU/lb. Denatured contains basically 30-90% ethanol, which has heating value of 12,800 BTU/lb, as well as 30-60% methanol. So it's impossible to know exactly the heat value of denatured without knowing the exact proportions of ethanol/methanol. But for sure it's higher than pure methanol (HEET). So it's guaranteed that denatured will boil faster than HEET. Also, a windscreen with no wind will probably heat up the stove (hence the alcohol) and make it burn up the fuel faster. That will make flames climb the side of the pot (wasted heat).

[@grob25]

What is the rubber top that you show @15:54?

[@MattShafter]

I forgot to add it to my description. I have static tested and it held air for days on the toaks, but I haven't hiked with it yet! amzn.to/2SwLI9e

[@thequomp33]

Just a tip, if you guys happen to wrap your canister stove in this kind of silicone cover: don’t. I did and got repaid with a pinhole in it from one of the stabilizing arms and the thing does then tear kinda easy.

[@andyveres3982]

does anyone know wtf the cold weather wrap does on the gram weenie pro

[@MattShafter]

You'll put a bit of alcohol on that wrap, light it, and it will get the stove hot fast and and help it bloom in seconds. I bought some of the wrap material and may glue some on mine!

[@andyveres3982]

@@MattShafter ah same reason you put the felt on yours. Thanks Matt 👍

[@sanfransimo]

What do you do about refueling while on a longer trip? I really don't like canister stoves (for the reasons you mentioned and others) and prefer not to go stoveless. Still, I've been opting for stoveless more on trips that call for resupply. Not because of the weight, mind you. It's the hassle of finding fuel in unfamiliar places that turns me off. I like to get in and out of towns with little fuss as possible, so it strikes me as silly to spend time/energy in town hunting for just one item (fuel). My experience is that Heet is often readily available (at many gas stations even), but that's far from a guarantee and sometimes they'll charge way too much for what should be a $3 bottle. I've heard some hardware stores sell denatured alcohol by the ounce, but the last thing I want to do in a town is to go searching for such an establishment. 99% rubbing alcohol works great but is rarely stocked at drug/grocery stores. Even 90% rubbing alcohol is often out of stock. 70% is a pretty sure bet, but doesn't work as well. Then there's the minimum amount to purchase; Heet and rubbing alcohol both come in pint sizes, which is too much, so there's this leftover alcohol that just gets thrown into a trash can or left in a hiker box, which doesn't seem safe or responsible. I suppose its ok to pour rubbing alcohol on the ground and just wait for it to evaporate, or flush it down a toilet, or pour it down a sink, but all that still strikes me as "bad citizen" behavior (warranted or not). How do you do it? Do you do it? Thoughts?

[@nathanrieck2112]

I suppose the only real way to be 100% certain of having fuel is mailing it to yourself but I’m not sure if you are allowed to mail that. So idk. Maybe go into town and see if you can find it and then do your resupply shopping. If you can’t find it then go no cook but then you are carrying wasted weight. I don’t think there’s a super good answer to this that would always work. I’m carrying the BRS because it’s simple and easy to use. I think it’s worth the weight to have it be less hassle to find fuel and whatnot. It’s not prefect but gets the job done. It doesn’t like wind but for the most part I can normally find a somewhat protected spot and then I also will use my sit pad as an additional wind break

[@sanfransimo]

@@nathanrieck2112 I'm not going to knock the BRS for the convenience, but I'm pretty much done with canister fuel. I really do prefer hot food and coffee, especially in the morning. Nuts, bars and crackers are just too easy. For the hot food to win out, it's pretty much an alcohol stove for me. For now, anyways. My issue (other than the weight, which is not prohibitive in it self) is that the canisters run out unreliably on trail leaving me stuck with need-to-prepare food. Carrying a second canister is a line I wont cross. Plus short trips have left me with a half dozen almost-finished (maybe) canisters that get set aside for car camping, but they don't wind up getting used cuz we just cook on fire or use an old white fuel burner. I like my caldera cone with a few ounces of Heet. I know people use alcohol stoves for thru hikes, but I've never met one personally. They seem to be low proportionally, and I don't have any UL friends nor do I find myself on the more social long trails in summer. How thru hikers treat the logistics of an alcohol stove is an enigma to me. I suspect they're spending many zero/nero days in towns where casually moping around finding fuel isn't a concern. I wonder... are they're taking the entire 12 ounces of Heet (or rubbing alcohol) with them on trail?...Throwing the remainder away? I saw Heet in a hiker box one time and it made me uneasy.

[@MattShafter]

Longer trips? I would assume most town stops would have heet. If not I would no cook. If I was thru hiking I would likely carry the heet bottle. As others have said, you could mail it to yourself.

[@sanfransimo]

@@MattShafter Carying the whole 12 oz Heet bottle pretty much defeats the weight advantage of the alc stove over canister fuel. Could dump out the excess fuel of the 12 oz bottle, but still not sure how to do that responsibly when out on extended trips. As for mailing it, pretty sure flammables have to be sent via USPS ground which is more expensive and takes longer. Looks like no cook. Thanks for the reply.

[@markcummings6856]

sim1tti That is my dilemma as well. I don’t want to carry the whole 12 oz bottle. That weighs 14 oz (counting yellow bottle) and = 24 “cooks”. 7.53 oz canister = 20-26 “cooks”. Canister wins out?!

[@friarrodneyburnap4336]

P.S. I also carry a Toaks Small titanium wood burning stove...and there small titanium pot I carry no fuel and just love it extremely lightweight...

[@ThePapawhisky]

Thanks for the great vid! I’m a long time Soto Windmaster user but interested in alcohol. Couple questions: what is the felt you have around the gram weenie? Source of felt? How long does the felt last? To fairly compare weight of fuel it would be useful to compare fuel for a 5 day carry-a common Thru hike carry between resupplies. Cooking supper and 1 cup of morning coffee perhaps? The comparison would be between a full 100g cartridge and how ever much alcohol is needed for 5 days plus the bottle. Perhaps?

[@MattShafter]

The felt is carbon felt from Minibull that I cut to shape. It should last a long while. Alchohol looses on the weight front after 5 days IF you totally care about getting to a boil, meaning you use 1oz of fuel for each meal and get to a boil everytime. I could get 16 days (8oz of fuel) of suppers out of my setup, but I'm not going to hit a full boil each time. It's really all in what you want out of it. Coffee is the perfect example of you not needing a full boil. No one is drinking 190F coffee, so why get it to a full boil? A 100g canister on your excellent Windmaster will get you 20 or so 2 cup boils?

[@ThePapawhisky]

Like you, I don’t go for a full boil ever. I do a hot soak for supper and go for around 180f. I’ve gotten pretty good at estimating that. As you say, way less for coffee. I can usually get close to 3 weeks out of a small canister. On long hikes I carry a valve that lets me drain partial canisters that I find in hiker boxes. Getting by.

[@markcummings6856]

ThePapawhisky Cool! Where can I get one of those valves? Thanks for the idea.

[@MattShafter]

@@ThePapawhisky Oh yeh... what's this valve technique. Cause based on what I saw on the PCT you could do big stretches of trail without ever having to buy new cans.

[@ThePapawhisky]

@@MattShafter Yeh, hiker boxes are usually full of quarter full cans. The valve is G-works R1. Here is a link to PMags discussion. pmags.com/g-works-gas-saver-r1

[@sarahbaniewcz3802]

I think the important question is can you make chicken tenders with this stove Matt?

[@MattShafter]

If you cut them up, yes. So you're going have to deal with backcountry chicken nugs.

[@sarahbaniewcz3802]

@@MattShafter I want the tenders not the nugs!!

[@jott1883]

In one of your videos I thought I saw you trying to make a cold soak jar with your toaks 550ml pot. Guess that was not successful as I haven't seen any updates? I have found that a that the soto thermostack combo 750ml pot lid fits my toaks 750ml pot so I think it would fit a 550ml as well. The advantage is that you can slip sheet a thin plastic (1/2 a sandwich bag) or foil between the pot and the lid. The soto lid uses an o-ring and makes an almost spill proof seal with the added plastic sheet to block the lid vents. I say almost cause if I turn over my 750 with a completely full pot it will drip with the foil but does better with the plastic, yet holds otherwise. Note the soto lid alone is a fraction lighter, 0.61 grams, than the original toaks lid. It's an expensive option, I know but it does give some flexibility, I actuality prefer the soto lid for poring and drinking hot liquids. Note it is however flammable so I use aluminum foil to cook with. Thanks for all the great ideas you have given me in all your videos... sissors, 1/8" foam, and lite PQ3 charger to name a few.

[@MattShafter]

I just can’t get into cold soaking yet. I need to give it another go for lunches!

[@jott1883]

@@MattShafter Agreed, don't do it myself and kind of jealous of those that can. But I do heat soak to save fuel. Look forward to see what you come up with for a sealed system, mine is a rather expensive solution

[@brian_onthetrail]

What type of alchohol do you typically use?

[@MattShafter]

Usually Heet but I would like to try everclear!

[@brian_onthetrail]

Is that different than denatured alcohol?

[@MattShafter]

@@brian_onthetrail Heet is denatured alcohol iirc.

[@xenaguy01]

@@MattShafter HEET is (yellow bottle) 99% methyl alcohol (methanol). Everclear is 95% ethyl alcohol (ethanol). Denatured alcohol is ethyl alcohol (ethanol) "denatured" or poisoned (to get avoid having to pay liquor taxes) with methanol. HEET (red bottle) is 99% isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol), which is commonly used in hand sanitizer at 70%.

[@jachincrawford]

Please cook a meal with your setup outside on camera. Ramen, potatoes, etc. -Thanks for the video!

[@MattShafter]

Ramen AND potatoes

[@ThatGuy-dk1ey]

@@MattShafter I hear that's the bomb...

[@jarikinnunen1718]

Solid fuel is lightest heat source.

[@MattShafter]

Incorrect, my farts are lighter…

[@guitarhiker4449]

Nice setup man! I personally can't cook out of a shot glass size pot! lol.. I'm clumsy i need at least a 750ml cook pot. I'm using the pocket rocket stove 2 mini stove kit at the moment. Quick n' easy, not messy and boils water fast! I do get your thinking on the weight savings though and time using your cook kit. I personally always bring my stove though especially on camp trips because i'm making coffee/hot chocolate and meals throughout the day. I'm done counting ounces! Be comfortable i say! Enjoy yourself. If it makes you happy carry it! As longs as its not your kitchen table lol..Whats 10 ounces here or there really, but to each his or hers own! Nice kit man! Hike on!!

[@MattShafter]

Oh for sure. If I was cooking all the time, my Soto Amicus is for sure coming with. I would like to try a bit of wood stoving! Thanks!

[@xenaguy01]

17:50 I also don't like the idea of having a jet engine noise in the middle of my otherwise quiet campsite.

[@TanukiParis]

You didn't cut the ring of the plastic bootle 😱😉

[@MattShafter]

Fail!!!

[@mainehiker6157]

The carbon fiber lids are discontinued 😞

[@MattShafter]

I know! It happened after I made this video. Wish someone else would pick them up.

[@MatoNupai]

I wouldn’t be caught dead with an elite stove by MBD. It’s a very good stove but it has a real big problem. The rim of the can is held onto the can by either food grade epoxy or some other adhesive over time and the heat the cans rim will separate from the can then you literally have to throw the stove away because it is now garbage. Instead of an elite I would recommend these stoves instead because they won’t come apart on you. Rollover stove designed by SmokeEater907 V8 stove designed by Intense Angler, My Mahalo stove or my Ultimate stove and other similar stoves. The ONLY benefit of the Elite stove it is made from a single can. The stoves above require the bottoms of two 53 mm (Redbull 8.4 OZ) cans and a section of wall from one of the cans. rollover, V8, Mahalo and Ultimate stoves weigh slightly less than MBD Elite 6.7-9 vs 9 grams for MBD Elite. They are vastly more durable. I have two Ultimate stoves. One has 800 burns on it, and the other has 700 burns on that one. I have personally set a 16 pound weight on one of my mahalo stoves just to see how much weight it could take

[@andrewmcgaha9629]

Wish I was cool 2 years ago. Mini bull appears to be no mas.

[@MattShafter]

He;'s a weirdo, he opened up a Etsy store and has like no stock.

[@andrewmcgaha9629]

@@MattShafter appreciate the lead. I shot him a message and I have one on the way.

[@MattShafter]

@@andrewmcgaha9629 Niiiiiiice. It burns hot.

[@menkfranceart]

Matt, If you want to cook, and you are hiking in forested areas, why not use a wood stove? You can get a Firebox Nano in Ti for 3 oz., and no weight for fuel. Alcohol for 5 - 7 days is at least 1 oz/day.

[@MattShafter]

Hrmmm what to do with the charcoal though? Specs say 4oz. This stove wouldn't work with alot of burn ban areas out west and out east it can be rainy. I don't carry a knife that can process wood. How and where do you use this stove? I just cook one meal a day, so fuel per day would be 0.5oz to 0.75oz.

[@menkfranceart]

MattShafter, I carry a knife, no matter what, and remove all traces of fire. A full burn leaves ash. There is always wood available to shave for starting with tinder. My entire firekit, including the stove, weighs about 5 oz. However, there is an aesthetic component to having a fire, which I appreciate...

[@scoobz0202]

@@MattShafter It costs a fricken fortune for a stove ($200), but I saw Ryan Jordan using a Suluk 46 Una Stove on his winter trip. 2.54 oz. But... $200.. If I was made of money I'd love to try it.

[@MattShafter]

@@scoobz0202 wow, that's pretty crazy

[@sanfransimo]

A number of years ago, I recall watching a local public broadcasting piece on Lint (hiker). He used some kind of UL wood burning stove. I think he's pretty much stove less now. I'm not sure if laws have just become more strict, or if it's just a regional thing. Most places in the Sierra, that wouldn't fly. Then again, neither would an alc stove.

[@jeffgriffiths5945]

i'm not super concerned about getting the water to boil for hot food reasons, but i like to for water purification reasons. i'm prob on the wrong channel, tho. i like my trangia stove. it must feel like a big old brick in the pack for a UL guy like you. lol

[@MattShafter]

Hahaha... I'm personally psycho about getting a low baseweight, but I don't really think its a huge deal. For me it got real nice around 12lbs BPW and I just kept it going. I would love to try one of those Trangias!

[@jeffgriffiths5945]

@@MattShafter the best thing about the trangia is that you can keep the fuel in the stove and just put the lid on when you're done cooking. so no need to measure out fuel for each meal. and the simmer-ring is nice for temperature control during those times when you're cooking more than just water. :)

[@MattShafter]

@@jeffgriffiths5945 That is a good feature. Kojins and Starlytes are like that. I think I will mess around with a Caldera cone and a Evernew 570, partially so I can have that feature. But cost, boil time, and weight will for sure increase.

[@kimkremer8915]

That's the beauty of hiking your own hike. I have Dyneema stuff sacks, I use quilts, I hike in trail runners, and I carry all my gear in my ancient, 4#, Peak 1 external frame pack.

[@LeopoldElwes]

Xboil is this just better 🤔

[@MattShafter]

I mean, this video is ancient history. I literally do not know why I have it up. That stove looks cool.

[@LeopoldElwes]

@@MattShafter I'm actually going walking with the guy who made it in two days. I could ask if he could send you one to try out.🤔

[@LeopoldElwes]

@@MattShafter Old videos are always great because they show people from their authentic side. 😁👍

[@jacobpoucher]

change the title to somthing like " ultimate 3oz hiking cook kit" the title makes it seem like just the stove is 3oz.

[@MattShafter]

Ooooo thanks, I wondered about that.

[@jacobpoucher]

great vid and kit otherwise, i made something very similar and its around 3.5 3.6 ozs

[@dhands100]

There is a guy who made his own cone system based around the little Sterno can...2.5 ounces I believe. He did this because "jellied petroleum " was allowed when straight alcohol stoves were not when he was hiking in Southern California a few years ago and got his boil times down to around 7 minutes. I saw it on Backpacking Light in the forums under the topic of "High Tech Sterno." It's in the first couple of pages. I don't know what his pot stand was within his cone but I would probably use one similar to Matt's Qi Whiz or like Kenneth Kramm's on his backpacking stoves video. This person refilled his Sterno can with a half ounce of denatured alcohol after every burn and it would re gel. I have done the same with the 7 ounce cans They seem to burn hotter after some refills as well. .If a person was traveling through jurisdictions where sometimes alcohol was allowed and then in the next one it wasn't, the small Sterno cans could be an option, especially with a cone I would think.

[@MattShafter]

Nice. Ill check those out!

[@dhands100]

@@MattShafter Glad to hear it! It will be an interesting read I think. Thank YOU. How about some recipe/tiips and tricks videos that are gear agnostic while nobody is going out?

[@jackpumkinhead9583]

I love how anal you are about weight but sometimes I think stressing too much about weight takes the joy out of what you’re actually doing

[@MattShafter]

That's a fair point. I really like the planning process, gear comparison, and trip planning. But once I pack my bags that all goes away. People complain that i don't do trip videos and it's because I think it detracts from the trip. Point is, once I'm out there I'm not thinking about this channel or testing anything. I'm out there having fun, talking to marmots, and seeing the sights.

[@strathmeyer]

Thought the 550 was for ladies

[@MattShafter]

I just got a 650 lol