The Wheel of Time's Worst Plot Line

In this video we discuss, In my opinion (I have to put that because some people legitimately do not realize that's what this is), the worst plotline from the wheel of time. Heavy spoilers for the whole epic fantasy series here. Do not watch this video if you have not read Robert Jordan's Wheel of time. Or do. You're your own person. Do what you feel like.
Patreon: / danielbgreene
Discord Server: / discord
Twitter: @DanielBGreene
Instagram: dgreene101
GoodReads: / daniel-greene
Intro Music Supplied by Starless. Do yourself a favor and check them out!
/ @starlessband8122
musicstarless.bandcamp.com/re...
m. Starless-41616...
starlessban...
WoT Artists to check out!:
Edsel Arnold
EdselArnold.com
Paul Bielaczyc
PaulBielaczyc.com
Ariel Burgess
ArtistArielBurgess.com
Seamas Gallagher
SeamasSketches.blogspot.com
Joe O’Hara
StudioJOHara.com
Amy Romanczuk
BookCzuk.blogspot.com
Jeremy Saliba
JeremySaliba.blogspot.com
Start The Wheel of Time here: amzn.to/2IQsnys

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

What's your least favorite WoT plotline?? Obvious spoilers below!

[@mathewstormblessed4706]

I would have to say part of the Ebou Dar story line. Mat's relationship with the queen really bothered me and felt unnecessary. I also felt like Oliver (I am sure you agree) was a little bit annoying.

[@arch7945]

Rand's romances were all consistently painful to me.

[@connorkleck7960]

The conflict that follows Liandrin and Moghedien was pretty pointless.

[@LightHalcyon]

I'm still rereading and currently on book 4. The plot line that is currently dragging for me is Perrin's relationship with Faile. I love Perrin and I enjoy seeing him grow into a leadership role. I see myself in some of his struggles with duty. Mostly the things he has to do to survive and protect his people, like killing, and how he struggles with it. But Faile is just terrible and controlling every step of the way and I don't understand how anyone would put up with that.

[@OsSLatvia]

I kinda didnt like how Shara played role in last battle. The whole nation fighting for shadow didn't seem to fit well + them coming out of nowhere and in the end they didnt do much.

[@alexronel830]

Tbh what I found the most UNDERDEVELOPED story line is Nyaneve's healing of madness, it was a massive breakthrough yet it was only mentioned like twice

[@Mikemk_]

She wasn't really healing madness though, just removing the taint that caused madness. People who were naturally mad were outside her ability.

[@Mikemk_]

@JTD Entertainment That was an Ashaman. It was caused by the taint.

[@Mikemk_]

@JTD Entertainment Yes. From the taint, which she removed.

[@waltgrisly509]

With taint no longer being there it is kind of pointless.

[@juandelsol9433]

@@Mikemk_ the taint was removed but those who went mad from it remain mad as a side effect. Nynaeve healed those who were mad.

[@thefifth5hot]

Perrin trying to rescue Faile from the Shaido. That dragged on for multiple books.

[@mathewstormblessed4706]

YES

[@justwinfelipe6495]

Yup, it felted like filler:(

[@the_freebeard]

The Bowl of Winds felt longer.

[@1234lukerr]

Yes on all of my re reads I have to skip that part

[@bhatfield1417]

The slog books

[@adrianinsaval]

Honestly Egwene always had prejudice against Rand's judgement, but I do agree the conflict was ridiculous.

[@BaronCreel]

I like how she basically ignores how he was tortured for a month straight by aes sedai

[@coyote271280]

Is like she thinks that since she didn't order it, it never happened and Rand should not remember it because how dare he?

[@alexronel830]

But so was she...and she was a slave with a collar around her neck...

[@BaronCreel]

Not even close to as bad

[@lordofdarkness4204]

Alex Ronel and do she should be more sympathetic and understanding towards Rand and his hatred of AES Sedai. Egwene hates Seanchan for the same reason Rand hates Aes Sedai

[@elazarsinger4187]

@@alexronel830 yes. And after that she retained a deep hatred and mistrust of ALL seancan

[@snarfmcgillicutty2616]

Actually, I thought this was not the best storyline either, but it was not the worst to me. I felt a little cheated that the song the tinkers are searching for didn't become something more towards the end. Mentioning it throughout the series as Jordan did, made it seem like it was going to be developed further. I also hated the rescuing Faile for 3 books. It should have been much smaller.

[@Andrew-tz2wv]

the "song" is tree singing. people don't like being in Stedding and even among the Ogier Tree Singing is rare so its not unreasonable that no one would have associated it correctly. why Rand or crew didnt tell the Tinkers the other infinity times they showed up in the series, cant say.

[@Gunleaver]

The point of the song is that it is a lie, or more precisely, a mistake. The central theme of Wheel of Time is how memories of events change over time so that people end up believing something entirely incorrect about the past. Robert Jordan himself in an interview compared the phenomenon to the game of "telephone" where you write a word or phrase down and show one person, who then has to whisper it to someone else and so on down the line, and the last person says what they think the written phrase is, and they are usually wrong, because it has changed as it passed from one person's mind to the next. Anyway, the point of the Tinkers in the story is that they have been doing their thing for 3000 years, longer than any nation has existed, and it's over a mistake, a mis-remembered memory of one function the Aiel performed in the Age of Legends. Their songs were made effective by the great works of the Age of Legends, but the first Tinkers mixed it up in their memories, so they thought their song CAUSED the Age of Legends. And they have spent millenia trying to find the magic song that will fix the world, even though it does not exist. It was the power of the Nym, and the last one dies in the first book. Coumin took part in the singing with the Nym and during the time of his grandson Adan, the first people to seek the Song, break away from the Aiel. It took two generations for the truth to became a legend that wasn't entirely true. The point of the Tinkers in WoT was not to make a grand contribution to the final victory with their critical piece of knowledge, but simply to illustrate an example of that little refrain that starts out every book: "The Wheel of Time turns ... memories become legend. Legend fades to myth and even myth is long forgotten..."

[@Ishamael907]

The song they seek is the song of growing, used during the AoL. When the Daishan Aiel, the Ogier, and the Nym sang the new fields to protect them from blight, and to increase the yield.

[@TheHomicidalTendency]

@@Andrew-tz2wv No the song is a thing, but RJ said that they may never actually find it. He made it clear in that interview that it was not the the Ogier's song. I'm not sure what his purpose with the song was only it was the tinker's goal to seek it out. It was never meant for the last battle, at least of this age. Perhaps its a song to heal the pattern, or reset the wheel after the Dark One wins? I'm not sure because a planet in an infinite loop would eventually run out of materials to mine and other infinite loop issues. My guess is one of the ages is a total reset. Perhaps that's the Dark ones purpose to occasionally win and like a forest fire burn everything to ash for it to regrow anew.

[@Andrew-tz2wv]

@@TheHomicidalTendency yeah I get that it's not the other song, the tinker's had their own song that they harmonized with the other with. The only people that would know what it sounds like are the forsaken or the clan chiefs/wise ones but it's unlikely that they would have the Talent or even care to listen to the song. Solution would be for one of the Mahdi with the Talent to travel through the glass pillars and see his ancestors sing the song. I also see this as a metaphor for the concept of lost knowledge, the song isnt a physical thing anymore than can be learned in which case none of this matters because the pursuit is the song.

[@kram9863]

The Black Tower frustrated me greatly because Rand totally ignored them and left them to their own devices. I don't so much mind that they were forced to overcome their problems without the help of Rand, but at the same time he created this organization that is potentially extremely dangerous to the entire world and he just leaves, without a care for what is happening there at all.

[@alexanderbutler2989]

I think he sorta trusted Logain to keep Taim in line. But yeah...ridiculous neglect...especially when you can Travel. Not only letting Taim sorta take over but letting it go to seed as an offensive weapon also had me pissed a little. These guy are to the light what dreadlords are to the dark. He shoulda been more hands on but w/e guess it still worked out

[@kityhawk2000]

@@alexanderbutler2989 biggest problem with the Black Tower is Rand's Decisions will probably lead to a war being started over them in a few years after the books end. By putting the Black Tower on Andor land you essentially have made them subjects of Andor. Andor is now ruled by Elayne, who is Aes Sedai so in effect the Black is subservient to the White Tower. This is kinda a problem if the White and Black Towers are meant of equal standing or if the Black Tower is to ever equal the White. We already see soldiers of Andor demanding inspections of their headquarters. How long would it be before the Ashaman decide they don't want to take orders from Andor, and would Andor be willing to allow them any independence? I'm doubtful of that.

[@bozoforce]

Rand mentioned several times that he personally didn't have the time to see to the day to day leadership, training and organization of the black Tower. That was why he needed Taim. And when it became obvious that Taim was a darkfriend, rand would have been walking into a trap if he returned to the black tower

[@calebmauer1751]

@@kityhawk2000 Seems like they could just move it somewhere else. There's tons of unused land in Randland. Better yet would be to reconcile with the White Tower and move to Tar Valon.

[@marsanna]

I found that frustrating as well, because Rand (or I guess Lews Therin) has suspected Taim from the beginning. I’m not sure why he trusted Taim to do this at all. I realize he didn’t truly have time and he didn’t have anyone else - unless he reached out to Logain. Having said that…I loved Androl, he was maybe the best side character other than Talmanes, and Androl couldn’t have had a chance to shine if Rand didn’t leave the Black Tower alone. And Pevara was pretty awesome as well.

[@Ishamael907]

During the Age of Legends, Lews Therin was in conflict with a strong vocal opponent to his plan on a strike at Shayol Ghul. I always felt the conflict that arose between the Dragon and the Amyrlin Seat was an echo of the previous age, and Egwene possibly being the same person from the AoL, just reborn back into the Pattern, like Rand/Lews.

[@BlackpackNinja]

*SURPRISE LORE LESSON* *POSSIBLE SPOILERS* correct the person you are referring to is Latra Posae Decume who, after the breaking got the by-name Shadar-nor, which means "shadow slicer". She was of the opinion the striking at Shayol Ghul was too dangerous. She proposed that, instead, they should use the Choedan Kal ( the two most powerful Sa'angreal ever made) to put a sort of shield over the Bore to buy them more time. In order to promote her plan and to stop Lews Therin from embarcing on, what she thougth to be, a reckless and fool hardy idea, she went around and convinced all the prominent female Aes Sedai that here Plan was the best option. Even the friction between male and female Aes Sedai had been building for a while, this insurrection ( and it can properly be called that since Lews Therin was the defacto leader of all Aes Sedai that served the ligth) was the first true divide between the genders. However, after a longish debate, that plan was rendered moot since the access Keys were lost after the armies of Sammael, Demandread and Be'lal destroyed the city they were developed in. This event as well the the continued reluctance of the female Aes Sedai forced Lews Therin to make the fateful decision to raid the gathering of the Forsaken (which by the way encompassed quite a few channeler at that time. We only ever hear about 13 of them since they were a. the strongest b. they survived the battle at shayol Ghul and c. were the ones that were trapped in the seal and therefore survived till now) with his Hundred Companions, which were a group of 113 young male Aes Sedai, and try to seal the bore with Seals made of Quendillar. After the dust settled in the valley of Thakandar, the Bore was sealed for the time being however due to the Dark Ones counterstrike the Hundred Companion went instantly mad, lead to the Breaking of the World and the demonification of male Aes Sedai the world over. Who was rigth in the end is impossible to determin, Latra's actions more than likely have saved all female Aes Sedai from being afflicted by the Taint and in retrospect it is obvious that Lews Therins plan was doomed from the outset as even using both sides of the one Power would still not have been enough to completly seal the bore. While this may seem to bare otu Latra point of view it must also be said that during that time, after a century of war, the shadow was winning. With the forces of ligth being slowly pushed back, doing nothing would mean the imminent victory and escape of the Dark one, therefore with all possible alternatives off the board Lews Therin was forced to act and while not perfect his solution did in the buy the world 3000 years of "peace" ( with the exception of Ishamaels meddling every 1000 years due to him not being sealed entirly). P.S. Egwene being Latra reborn, while being logical, was to the best of my knowledge a Fan theory and never officially confirmed *END LESSON*

[@Gunleaver]

@@BlackpackNinja Robert Jordan did confirm that had women been involved with the Sealing, saidar would have been tainted too. Latra's plan was bad, because it was not a solution, just a temporary fix with bit of an underpants gnome aspect. She had no plan for what they should do long term, and did not adjust or adapt when the Choedan Kal were lost, she just kept blocking the only plan that was still doable. It should also be said that she did not foresee the taint. As "The Strike at Shayol Ghul" states "no one anticipated the Dark One's counter-stroke". And regardless of the results, Lews Therin's plan was still a win. Despite the consequences and costs, despite the price to male channelers for 3000 years, despite the Breaking of the World, the world is STILL much better off than a Dark One victory. As you rightly point out. I never liked the Egwene = LPD theory, because I don't like the idea that the struggle against the Shadow and for the fate of the world is just the same people repeating the same issues every Age. I reject Elayne = Ilyena for the same reasons (and especially the idea that she, Min & Aviendha are portions of her reborn or her soul divided by her husband's madness).

[@Stryyder1]

​@@Gunleaver The only source for this can be found on theoryland where someone was listing all of the things Robert Jordan said at a book signing in January of 2003 When asked about other Revelations the poster put the following up TALLIS Other "revelations": ROBERT JORDAN Saidar would have definitely been tainted had female channelers participated in the sealing. TAGS saidar, the bore, war of power, taint So I am sure both the question and answer were probably more complicated but this is the only source I wish we had something more concrete in writing or video/audio reference because in all the writing I have seen about it he leaves in deliberately ambiguous. He was asked directly in 2005 and his answer was as follows "This is not something that will be explored." Both are third party recounts of what was said. In fact the Strike at Shayol Ghul deliberately does not answer the question supports the theory that it is unknowable. I think RJ wanted it to be unknowable so the choices made couldn't be second guessed.

[@dannysampson615]

You said that this is not within Egwene's character. I disagree. Egwene's defining character trait is the ability to annoy the reader.

[@breezy3392]

And her ability to be a brat towards Rand

[@jake505710]

im going through Wot for a third time, my least fav. plot line is the Atha'an Miere. they just never really were flushed out like other nations. the basically used a bowl to stop a storm....compared with a culture like the Aiel they seem flat, depthless and unnecessary.

[@destinygalearies7382]

Yeah, their role interacting with Rand as their Cooramoor was almost literally nothing but agreeing to ship some supplies to the poor... Definitely something that's important, but not something that's really interesting or sells their importance as a culture/people.

[@bhatfield1417]

Agree

[@santinistar]

I really like the Atha'an Miere! But I agree they were never fleshed out properly, which is sad - there was a lot of potential.

[@lalawmpuiatinthe8410]

Same here, they waged a bargain for practically everything they do and they get away with it too often imo... I don't like them one bit

[@magnummax78]

I agree that there was more that COULD have been done, but I’m satisfied with their role. I think people here are simply dismissing the importance of their control of the weather at the Last Battle, and their later importance to the White Tower AND as another independent source for channelers. I think of their role as seafarers as not as important as their culture in dealing and negotiations. They helped very young but important leaders develop into their roles as such. Their Coramoor prophecy was necessary to help overcome thousands of years of isolation from the White Tower. Rand’s insistence of keeping them at arm’s length forced them and the White Tower together. They had to humble themselves (which was painful to them), which made them easier for Rand to control later. I think Fain and Messima’s and the Legion of the Dragon’s (those men who came to the Black Tower and learned that they couldn’t channel) and the Green that bonded Rand against his will were more underdeveloped than the Athan’an Miere

[@Mikemk_]

"He wouldn't leave that crucial information out..." Uh yeah, he would. Not telling people information they need is totally in character for Rand.

[@arizona_anime_fan]

the world thought it was the stone cold Rand; that was the bluff. egwene misunderstands rand so badly throughout the series, and rand understands egwene so well throughout the series, this moment makes so much sense it's not funny. Dude, you really missed egwene's character somehow. she has some good moments in the later series, but she's basically an estranged younger sibling from rand and her relationship and understanding of him is terrible. Note, rand loves her like a kid sister, and she resents him much like gawyn does (they're a matched pair), she wants to be the hero of the story, and resents rand for his role.

[@neriumsuitedher]

You got that right. Every time Rand does anything: Egwene: "that wool-headed sheepherder!" Now when Min or Lan call Rand this, it's affection. Nyneave calls him this as well but eventually she grudgingly admits that Rand is very clever (for a man! Oh, Nyneave...). Even Moiraine, after her awakening, admits that Rand will do well. She opts to help him rather than bully him once she understands that he'd been right and she had been wrong. But Egwene literally thinks that he is just a wool-headed idiot. She calls him boy. Even though he is older than her and has more experience.

[@Want300]

Plus. Someone has the realization that Rand probably manipulated Egwene to be against him in this. He didn’t explain himself for that reason…. What did she do… she gathered all the nations against him and got them to the meeting. Ones he might not have convinced to attend on his own.

[@facundogonza5740]

Let's be honest. Egwene is ANYTHING but over Rand XD

[@breezy3392]

I'm only halfway through the series and I already know that that is a damn good summation of Egwene. She has been like that towards Rand since before they even left home and has never changed in that regard

[@manuellopes6913]

This is quite off. Of all the characters in the series Egwene is the one character that best understands Rand, along with Tam. She understands him so well, that when adressing elayda's goals for Rand with the Wise Ones in Tel'aran'rhiod she guesses what Elayda did but also how Rand reacted and went on the react fir the nest 4 books. Mind you, at this point Egwene didn't know what had happened, only guessed at possible scenarios of what could have happened. The acuracy of her judgement of Rand is so accurate that the Wise Ones basically begged her to return to them. This is also the only time they ever begged for anything in the series

[@AverageAwesomeDude]

I feel like egwene got so jazzed when she found out she could channel and was all aes Sedai special. But gets jealous when it’s revealed that Rand is extra special special

[@alecjira]

I'm not so sure about that cos of the taint

[@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218]

@@alecjira yeah but the absolute power rand holds as the dragon reborn dwarfs even the greatest channelers of the time. Even by the 5th book rand is way more powerful than egwene has been shown to be up to that point

[@kathryncainmadsen5850]

Weird. I never saw that once and I didn’t like her all that much. You see her like a little princess? Faile and some of the Whitecloaks are the characters I see that way.

[@williamkoch7417]

Actually, I think Rand's threat to walk out on the Last Battle makes a lot of sense but in a slightly different way than the obvious one. It isn't meant to be taken seriously, the Wheel wouldn't let him walk out on it to be sure. Rather, it is meant to make clear that the entire thing hinges on him. He may not be able to use this as a legitimate threat, but it does refocus everyone's perspective on the fact that he is the central spoke of this situation and needs as free a hand as possible. It is more a rhetorical move than a literal one.

[@ChristmasLore]

Exactly. And he's highly conscious of it, I remember a paragraph of him thinking about it pretty much exactly that way.

[@Adam_okaay]

Egwene from the beginning of the EoTW always thought she knew what was best for everyone else particularly Rand. After the fall of the Stone she very consistently believes that Rand needs to be taken down several rungs. She hardly recognizes any of his positive growth throughout the series. Also this conflict is kicked off largely because Egwene has heard reports of Dark Rand bale firing an entire castle. This is immediately following veins of gold.

[@neriumsuitedher]

She never showed him any respect as Dragon Reborn, not even in public, thinking him arrogant. Meanwhile she demands magnitudes more from her FRIENDS in PRIVATE as Amyrlin.

[@LoneTiger]

Mmm… I believe you are missing a few points here. * Rand tells Egwene his plans to make her bring the nations he's missing to unite to him, he does not have the time to conquer them or to bring them peacefully, he's delegating that job to her, masked as a threat so big she could not afford to do anything else. Rand now has the memories of Lews Therin, and about 400 years of experiences and memories dealing with rulers, so he's bringing a threat large enough to be taken seriously. Will he actually do it? Of course not, but they don't know that, they still think he will go insane, and insane people will do insane things. * Moiraine though is not fooled, had she been missing, Rand very likely still have fought the last battle, and broken the seals with whatever forces he had. But he wants to force them, so he can seal Shai'tan permanently, and leave the world a better place. He does point out that for 3000 years the white tower has been in control or manipulating nations, giving up power over nations is a very hard habit to break. *The Seanchan cannot be part of this event for obvious reasons. "Heeey we just raided your tower and got prisoners but we gonna help you in the last battle, so we cool, right?" That's not gonna fly. *The friendship / love between Egwene and Rand is really strained here, she refuses to see him as what he is now, The Dragon, a King, she still sees him as just a plain Rand, a shepherd, and assumes she knows better than him, (like most women in the books) so "talking" to her is out of the question since their loyalties are divided, and getting them together to talk it out, is out of the question, there is no time to form a committee. (Egwene does change later, when she realizes she is out of her depth during the battle, and gives control to Mat) Moiraine knows this, she learned to humble herself, and realized she is wrong about many things she thought differently. Nynaeve also begins to learn this after her trial, some things are more important than mere pride. Egwene does not learn this. Even if they talked and shared ideas, Egwene would refuse to follow his lead, simply because: A) He is a man who can channel. B) He is a man, and therefore she knows better than him. Anyway, those are my thoughts and hope you agree or disagree. Either is fine. :) (Edit: So many grammar errors)

[@GhostEmblem]

This is my thoughts almost exactly!

[@jacksonlynch1731]

I had been thinking this exactly while I watched the video. You're spot on, dude. These are points that make a huge difference

[@SilortheBlade]

Very well said.

[@jacksonlynch1731]

To flesh out my above reply... What I think Daniel misses out on here is that both Rand and Egwene are completely different people than the two kids from the Two Rivers they started the series as. Yes, they had been close, but the idea that Egwene would have just accepted Rand's plan (The Amyrlin Seat WOULD NOT accept such a plan) just because they had a relationship as kids is ludicrous to me. Let's face it...every bit of Egwene's character development since the beginning of the series was leading up to this point, and if you truly pay attention to that character development, you'll see that. Daniel, usually I think your videos are spot on, but this one confused the hell out of me. So much here that I feel like you whiffed on. Sorry, dude.

[@abj136]

More than this, both characters completely changed in the past 3 years and they really don't know who the other has become. They both separately have been through extreme torture, discovery of incredible power within (both Power and mental fortitude), experienced diplomacy, betrayal, schemes, etc.

[@omysadat]

I agree 100%. As strong and badass as Egwene is, she is my least liked character of the good guys in the series. She turned 100% in what she knew everyone hated about the aes sedai. She didnt want to help but to control and manipulate to her way which suddenly was the only correct one because she was Amyrlin. She turned as bad as early Siuan and worst than early Moraine imo.

[@marsanna]

I feel that Egwene was always fairly manipulative, and it only got worse post her capture by the Seanchan. I think if she were an Amyrlin at any other time she might have ended up pretty grey morally.

[@breezy3392]

I agree that Egwene lived up to the image of the perfect Aes Sedai from book one. I was like smh, we're back to this

[@revpembroke3082]

C'mon man, you've read the Wheel of Time! You know that if two characters could talk to resolve something, that it won't happen because NOBODY TALKS TO EACH OTHER EVER!

[@coyote271280]

agreed, everything happens on people's minds while shawl and skirt shifting, people only talk to Mat, probably that is why we all love him.

[@styrkarsnorrason3509]

YES THIS!

[@duffypratt]

Exactly. Now combine that with the universal attitude among women in the book that no man is capable of deciding anything, and that the world would be much better off if only everyone would do just what they say.

[@blackwolfnews1722]

This series could have been wrapped up in the New Spring timeline if people only talked to each other! LoL

[@Gunleaver]

Hey, maybe everyone makes the kind of comments you snarkily refer to, because your command of the facts is so bad. Rand and Egwene are in conflict the entire series, from their first encounter in the village, where she gets mad at him for pointing out that her fantasies of traveling to gain power are unrealistic and then again when she refuses to believe him about the Myrdraal. They fight about her joining the group and about the Aes Sedai and her turning her back on the Two Rivers. She doesn't believe him when he tells her about Elayne, and she only approaches him for an intimate discussion after Perrin reveals her thing with Aram and she is trying to wheedle him into giving her a pass on it. In book 2, she assaults him and belittles him because he's trying to push his friends away for their own protection. In book 3, she tries to use the Power on him during their encounter in the dream. In book 4, it is revealed that despite spending months in the Stone together, they have had only a few casual conversations and he's practically a stranger to her. She pretends to teach him to channel in order to manipulate him into accepting a relationship with Elayne (and doesn't believe him when he says he's fallen out of love with her, even though he's clearly more into Elayne in that meeting), then she complains to him that he failed to play little games to make Elayne happy before she left. She also complains to him about Aviendha not being happy with him, even though he barely knows her and Egwene knows Aviendha hates him for no good reason. Egwene does not respect his privacy and thinks Moiraine has the right to use the Power on him without permission and that the Wise Ones have the right to be told personal medical information that he clearly does not want to give them, and she is miffed that the Maidens don't let her into his rooms in Rhuidean uninvited unless she has business there. She keeps trying to break the wards on his dreams, which is incredibly wrong. She is always second-guessing his choices and decisions and is always on Moiraine's side or the Wise Ones' or Aviendha's when they are in conflict with him (and usually in the wrong, too). She hides the truth about the Tower rebels from him, she balks at joining the fight against the Shaido, and she only comes to him as a friend in book 6 because she wants something from him and when he (correctly) says he can't help her, she snaps at him and leaves. When the Tower embassy comes, she refuses to believe Rand when he insists he won't trust them. No man in his right mind would go to the Tower with them or trust a Red Amyrlin (and they clearly expected this, as they came prepared for a refusal and led off with an enormous bribery offer), yet Egwene expects the worst. She trusts him so little that she tries to trick him into pissing off the sisters, and as soon as they are gone, she starts cursing him out and belittling his analysis of the meeting despite being right about Galina and Alviarin being allies (that he does not know HOW they are allied is partly her fault for refusing to make it clear who and what her own allies are). And that's the end of their interactions! Rand is always right about Egwene. He's right that she would not believe Mat & Perrin about the Myrdraal. He's right that she tattles to Moiraine and the Wise Ones. He's right when he calls Egwene on her attempts to manipulate him with the Tower embassy. And he's right when he tells Master Bunt that Egwene is going to be mad at him, even though there is no real cause for it. Egwene doesn't listen much to reason with anyone else. Nynaeve & Elayne's mission in Ebou Dar was a resounding success. They formed a good relationship with Tylin, they recruited the Windfinders to use the Bowl of the Winds (and Elayne, the best weather channeler among the rebels says there's no way she could have done it), found and uses the Bowl, and captured a Black sister. But Egwene reams them out, because they agreed to let Sea Folk sisters go home and that might cause political problems for her! She actually complains that Elayne takes Nynaeve's side "too often" in their arguments, although she only does so when Nynaeve is right! That is insane and not all reasonable. She admits that Elayne ONLY sides with Nynaeve when Nynaeve is right, but she STILL wants Elayne to side with herself more often! That is not the thinking of a reasonable woman. Whatever else you can say about Egwene, she is very contrarian, especially with Rand. And Rand knows it, and thus his strategy with Egwene in the end game is to use reverse psychology. He tricked her into gathering all the rulers and armies in one place to oppose him, so he could co-opt them and get them to sign his treaty.

[@mazrimtaim3107]

Thank you for pointing all of that out. I always hated Egwene and looking at all of this shit together pisses me off. She really wasn't a great character. And her becoming Amyrlin just didn't feel right to me and I hated the way it was explained

[@luckymandragoran8471]

I am so very that you did this.. It has saved me a whole lot of time and I'd a far better job than I could've.. Thank you.

[@yves2016]

I fully agree with most of this. The only time Egween shows possitive characteristics is with the wise ones and trying to get the white tower to work together

[@Gunleaver]

@@yves2016 Except for all the lying, I guess.

[@shawnn7502]

I am no fan of Egwene's character and her sudden rise to Wise Queen in a matter of pages was about as Mary Sue as it gets. That being said, your argument here, though well-founded, is blatantly one-sided and therefore misleading. You purposefully leave out the many scenes of positive interaction between Rand and Egwene, especially in the first couple books where there are scenes showing how the two characters care about each other.

[@bayazwow]

It’s been a couple years since I read the books, but I remember just thinking that Mat Cauthon was basically just comic relief and was completely unimportant before he met Tuon. That was a big problem I had. Also Mat was repeatedly raped by some queen or something and all the girl characters thought it was funny. That was awful.

[@therenunciate]

I always thought that the Slayer plot line was undeveloped and kind of random. It seems like Jordan just wanted something for Perrin to fight on the side, on top of all the other things he was dealing with (trollocs in the Two Rivers, the Last Battle, Malden, etc). I didn't relate to or understand Slayer, and it made their fights emotionless and hard for me to care about. The culmination of that plot line was pretty lackluster and underwhelming for me, as well.

[@iliveameme4930]

Let's just be happy Sanderson didn't try to incorporate the 'Perrin cleaning the Ways and getting rid of Machin Shin' plot from Jordan's notes

[@lukeseneca1340]

Thiery Hoareau WHATTTTT THAT WOULDA BEEN SO GOOD

[@marsanna]

I agree, especially considering Isam and Luc are written in prophecy. And Luc only went to fight trollocs because of some random woman’s foretelling. I did like Slayer discussing how messed up his childhood was and how that explains his dedication to the shadow - the only thing that has helped him in any real way even though they’re just using him.

[@Urikanu]

I'll add my voice to the choir here: Sure, Rand and Egwene likes each other, and has talked in private, like friends, several times. But Egwene has a history of manipulation and berating EVERYONE around her, except the wise ones when they are teaching her. She, more than anyone else, embodies the concept of 'I know better', in my opinion. She's a great CHARACTER, but a terrible PERSON. To me, she actually fits the role of Anti-hero better than anything else, because she's a protagonist that's incredibly hard to like, who repeatedly treats her friends like crap and who is too stubborn to see reason, ever. But she's still 'one of the good guys' because she, by default, is working against the Dark One.

[@nearzero12]

She's the worst character I think ever. Lol For someone who's biggest feat is to get whoppings from the mistress of novices she acts way to high and mighty. She's a "dream walker" MF Perrin would wreck her in that. "She's powerful in the power" MF Nyneve and Ellen both were doing shit that was lost to the age of wonders. She is so pointless that she's the only main character to die because Robert Jordan didn't even like her. Lmao

[@johndunn1625]

Egwene is a remarkable character because to me, she embodies some of the absolute worst traits a person could have (lack of empathy, lack of self awareness, arrogance, incredible thirst for power and knowledge, poor judgment, a willingness and eagerness to manipulate others, lie through her teeth, equate violence and strength with inherent goodness, abandoning others when they're no longer of use, being one of the only Good side characters that actively breaks oaths), yet is so firmly on Team Light that it's inconceivable that going darkside never once enters her thoughts. Every single one of her character traits and thought processes would land her firmly in the Forsaken camp, yet she committed suicide to stop one of them

[@ethakis]

I just finished A memory of light today. Oh boy I have a plague of gripes. There was so much good, there was so much amazing and plenty of what the fuck. That said, I interpreted Rand telling Egwenne that he was going to break the seals as his ploy to gather the forces of light in one place to get them to agree to the Dragon's Peace and to begin organizing for the last battle. I think that was the intention of this plotline, and for that I think it was... okay? TBH though, no character is as maligned or as misunderstood as Rand. Fucking no one has any empathy for him even when he's being crushed by the weight of world and that was one of my biggest complaints, that everyone was a petty cunt towards Rand.

[@ChristmasLore]

Amen to that. That's why I like Min. Min never pestered him. She did care.

[@breezy3392]

No empathy for Rand who has the weight of the world on him. I'm only at the end of book 2 and I'm already feeling that

[@timotheedaude9171]

Actually : my least favorite is not an entire plotline. It is the resolution of padan fain plotline. It took 14 entire books to build ! And it finishes with like 2 sentences ? Come on ! You can do better !

[@wyssmaster]

I've read a theory that Mat and Fain are effectively polar opposites; Mat's luck is counterbalanced by the single unluckiest occurrence in the series: Fain striking first against the only person on the planet immune to whatever Shadar Logoth bullshit he tried to use. It's not great compared to the other endings we see, but it makes sense.

[@marsanna]

I agree, I just finished the books and it was pretty anti-climactic, like an afterthought.

[@MadMage86]

What I disliked about the resolution between the nations was that the Seanchan were never 'corrected' at any point; I suppose it can be implied that Artur Hawkwing speaking directly to Tuon could take her down a peg, but literally every other nation Rand brought to the last battle had to do some serious soul searching to correct some preconceived notions, yet the Seanchan are basically allowed to keep their entirely warped worldview which basically includes the idea that channelers are too dangerous to be allowed to roam free. Tuon even says at one point that she is above the Dragon and no treaty is binding to the Crystal Throne, meaning the Seanchan as a whole are literally just a time bomb. Their ideological differences not being addressed is one of the worst shortfalls of the story and makes me wonder why they were even a part of the story in the first place.

[@deadpiratetattoo2015]

I'm thinking it was on purpose. Unfortunately he didn't live long enough for any later books

[@Sturmblade]

Robert Jordan had originally planned to do more 'spin-off' books that focused solely on Mat and Tuon. I'm guessing that he left the Seanchan open for this reason - so there would be more to explore. Unfortunately with where it was left, they are allowed to join with making practically no concessions and 'unfinished'. Brandon Sanderson has said that he would not feel comfortable writing any more Randland books without RJ notes (of which there are none).

[@DutchDread]

Every stupid thing Egwene says is in character, and Rand going "ok, fuck everyone, I am the dragon, here's what's going to happen, or else you can go fuck yourselves" is my favorite action in the books. It's what I'd been waiting for Rand to do since day 1, and quite honestly, it's the most realistic action I've seen any of them do. Also, it's perfectly in character, Rand had been one foot in going "fuck this shit" for about 10 books now, him going "you know what, enough of this, I'm tired, you're going to listen or I'm out" was PERFECTLY in character and extremely believable, personally, that's the first thing I'd have said the moment someone wouldn't do what I wanted them to do. In my country, we have a saying that goes "happy, or not at all". Meaning, "when I am giving you something/doing something for you, you'd better be grateful, or you're not getting it". I mean seriously, by the time Rand finally sets his foot down he'd gone through so much fucking shit because people constantly screwed him over, everyone had lost the right to say anything against him by that point, they should have all been staring at the floor in embarrassment by that time like a bunch of children, they should have been begging for his forgiveness and promising they wouldn't try to work against him anymore but instead they continue being the fucking worst. Rand didn't make a threat, he offered them a choice, a very fair one, I have a job I need to do, YOU get decide whether or not I'm going to do it, if they hadn't listened, and had Rand let the dark one win because of it, it would be 100% their fault. Rand is not to blame for the horrible choices of others. He can't say "or otherwise, after the last battle we're coming after you", everyone expects Rand to die at the last battle (everyone except the reader XD).

[@nathanbennett8400]

"I'm gonna release the Dark One, bye" haha

[@wo0topia]

That was Rand's moment of Chad ascension

[@tylerleeson1614]

I think the major thing is the wheel turns and things repeat. I can't remember her name, but there was the woman who refused to help lews therin, leading to only saidin being used on the dark one's prison. I think this is what is supposed to be close to happening between rand and egwene.

[@jennipurr77]

Egwene has a problem with men who could channel throughout the series. This to me was just an example of that. She was sure that Rand was totally insane by this time and thought that his wanting to break the seals was just a sign of that. I thought it was in character for her with her prejudice against men. She almost could have been red. She thought men were just idiots, including Gawyn.

[@mathewstormblessed4706]

ACTUALLY I really liked this plot line. It didn't really feel too out of character and I liked how they butted heads. As far as I remember(feel free to correct) Egwene hasn't seen Rand that much since she gained power. This is also somewhat true for Rand. Which means that to each other they are both very much like how they were back in the Two Rivers. As I recall, Rand's opinion wasn't worth too much back in those days. Although they were good friends, Rand was often referred to as "wool-headed." They also did not know what breaking the seals would do. For all Eqwene knows breaking the seals could result in the instant release of the dark one. People do not want to risk the destruction of the whole world. This is part of why Rand's threat was so effective. I agree that anyone who knows Rand would find this threat a bluff. However, several of the world leaders present at the meeting would not know Rand very well. All they would have are reports of him becoming increasingly unstable and of him doing things like destroying entire armies with a wave of his hand. Not only that, but the people who did know him have seen him suddenly change and receive the memories of a dead man. This could make them doubt what Rand would really do. Finally, the people who barely know Rand at all (like some Aes Sedai) still hold a firm believe that the taint did not cleanse the male half of the true source. This would make it a lot easier to doubt what you thought this man could really do. Anyway, I really enjoyed the video (I apologize for not having a condesending tone).

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

See the problem with that was, at least to me, all the “wool headed” comments were largely made out of love. When it came to real shit, they put all that aside and talked as people. Happened when Rand needed to escape the border city, happened, when the Aes Sendai visited Rand and Eqwene needed to hide (which is a time when they respected each other and wasn’t that long ago), and when she wanted to teach Rand to channel. I view their relationship the same I have with my sisters. When things are fine, endless shit is given. When things need to be kinda serious, shit is still given. But if REAL shit starts going down, like the end of the world, all that is put aside, and we talk/act together.

[@mathewstormblessed4706]

You do have a point, Eqwene probably would talk this out. I still hold that it wasn't too out of character. I mean who would risk (even a small chance) of the world suddenly ending? Maybe Eqwene was stressed from fighting off a Seanchan attack + the whole assassination attempt Gawyn had to foil + finally winning back the White Tower. They really would have talked it out, but I think I like the way the scenes went this way + Moraine having to defuse it.

[@halfrocanadianv5086]

I listen to a WoT podcast and they raise the point that egwene's perspective on rand is tainted by 'halima'. Theres a couple scenes were the forsaken are talking among themselves and halima's encouraging of distrust of rand in egwene. It kinda sorta slightly takes the edge off her decisions regarding him.

[@KeeliaSilvis]

@@DanielGreeneReviews Could you give a few examples of Egwene and Rand coming together instead of butting heads? I don't remember many, especially in the period right before she left. But I'd be happy to reread any sections you recommend.

[@Gunleaver]

@@DanielGreeneReviews Except when Rand needed to escape Fal Dara, Egwene was WRONG to hide him. They had no idea he was an exception to the usual rules for male channelers. Rand wanted to get away so he did not cause collateral damage, and Egwene promptly hides him in the worst place possible in that regard, after her genius plan to hide him in the dungeon didn't work. She didn't listen to Rand saying it was a bad idea and when he correctly pointed out the problem of her visiting Fain, and was proven right, she doubled down by dragging Mat and trying to bring Perrin to the dungeons, losing the dagger in the process. Regardless of the spirit of her aid, there is little in there about respecting or listening to Rand, more trying to impose her own view on the situation. It was similar when Rand hid her from the Tower embassy. Nothing about respect there, she refused to ask him for protection and instead wanted to know a good place to hide and she was trying to manipulate him into making a bad impression on the sisters, because she did not trust his statements that he would not go with them and she did not trust his judgment in spite of all the "You will do well"s from Moiraine at the last meeting. Egwene didn't really want to teach Rand to channel, that was just an excuse to get Elayne into his company so she could manipulate him into letting her out of their relationship without being the asshole who dumps a guy with a terminal illness. She could have come trying to teach him any time during the months they were in the Stone together, but she avoided him because she didn't want to be his girlfriend anymore, but did not want to find herself in an awkward position and have to break up. Once Elayne finally got through to Egwene with her feelings for him, that gave Egwene an opportunity to frame their break-up as a nice thing. You can say all these things she does are good or bad or whatever and you can argue that they all have justifications....but NONE of them are the acts and behavior of a relationship with mutual respect or trust or the ability to be open with one another.

[@Surazalsevastra]

1: The Faile/Shaido plotline 2: Ebou Dar Mats story kinda flatlined for me until his marriage 3: Athan Miere anything 4: Salidar Rebels. Should have accelerated that plot it got so TIRED

[@pleaseendmethx9455]

I like how the book didn’t even like the anthan miere

[@Ulriquinho]

@@pleaseendmethx9455 they only suck because they are completely under developed. They had a lot of potential, had we gotten to know them as much as the Aiel they could have rocked. Unfortunately, their prophecy went unfulfilled, their culture unexplored, their characters fell flat.

[@raazazuul32]

Dang I loved Mat in Ebou Dar

[@leandervr]

I felt this way the first time too, but it made waaaay more sense the second time I read it. The argument over the seals is merely a tool for Rand, and sitting down with Egwene to talk it over would defeat the point. He wanted Egwene to oppose him, because that'd lead her to exactly what he wanted to her to do: Draw any armies that might otherwise not join him in the last battle to the field of Merrilor.

[@krennorec8861]

Well Egwene stayed "in character". She (and every Aes Sedai) believes that every man that can channel is a crazy nutcase just waiting to explode, even after saidin is cleaned. She (and the whole White tower) is also convinced that Rand is still a "stupid shepherd" that doesn't have a clue about anything and should be "leashed" and let the "oh so mighty" White Tower decide everything. Plus, when she hears all the rumors regarding Rand, she believes he is capable of even the worst things (massacres, killing and torturing kings etc). Not to mention how Egwene is butthurt about Ashaman bonding Aes Sedai as warders, while the only alernative was them killing them for trying to destroy the Black Tower. And not even thinking about how Rand was the first man who was bonded as a warder against his will in centuries. Which is even worse when this also means somebody can just kill Allana and make Rand go crazy, thus giving the victory to the Shadow.

[@breezy3392]

Completely agree with everything you said. As far as I am into the series, Egwene still thinks of Rand as the farm boy getting into sone trouble in Emmons Field rather than recognizing that he had grown and changed as much as or even more than she has. Every Aes Sedai whose perspective we get think or Rand as needing to be controlled or leashed. That final conflic has her saying "The White Tower should be guiding you" which amounts to "he needs to shut up and do as we say". No Egwene, just no. Egwene also believes some things about Rand from rumors without checking for herself. And yeah, the Aes Sedai who were bonded were lucky not to be executed. Did Alana ever face any consequences for forcibly bonding Rand with no cause? I was not sorry to hear that she dies in the end.

[@patrickseery4317]

This is the first time I’ve watched your channel, I do not know if you brought this up in any other videos. But non-communication has been the worst thing with this book series. Going all the way back to book 210 now no one just sat and talked

[@Kunori]

AKCHUALLI, I think that while Egwene had a lot of affection for Rand and obviously understood his power and importance, she never really exactly respected him, at least as a leader or commander. She kind of always held on to that Two Rivers Women's Circle idea of men needing to be quietly "looked after" by women. I can't think, right now, of any men she ever treated like proper authority figures that didn't have a "minder" - Lan she saw as belonging to Moiraine and then to Nynaeve, Gareth Bryne she thought of as Siuan's, and so on for other men she showed much respect for. It's subtle, because for most of her plotlines we don't really see her interact with many men, mostly with other women, but I think it's a factor.

[@Gunleaver]

Remember how in four straight books, she was made aware of Mat's successes or reputation as a general, and was still surprised each time? She was there when Rand questions Mat about the Band and Moiraine lists his wins. Then in the next book, when Mat comes to Salidar, she just assumes he's in command as Rand's puppet, even though she HEARD Rand asking Mat about all the men joining his group. She's surprised in the next book when Bryne mentions his rep and then again in another book when Talmanes cites his own loyalty. And during the fighting in aMoL, after Uno & Min introduce her to the idea that the generals are compromised, her response is that Mat is often wrong. When has Mat been wrong, since he was Healed of the dagger, that Egwene could know about? Elayne and others have no problem taking steps to remove their generals, but Egwene doesn't trust Mat or Uno, the professional soldier she has known the longest.

[@KaitlinLuksa]

I wish the Sharan had shown up sooner so we could have had more about them. They feel like an afterthought at the end of the last book. I feel like they definitely could be developed further.

[@Ishamael907]

Totally agree!! Only a few brief mentions in the entire series the Boom, a whole flippin army with channelers and Demandred leading.

[@neriumsuitedher]

It was a Chekhov's gun that was constantly being mentioned and I liked the "Oh shit we didn't plan for this" moment of truth. I like to think that after the ending Rand goes to Shara and fulfills their prophecies. Although I do have a problem with that ending (how is he gonna raise his kids now that he's dead).

[@afilthycasualplays4007]

I thought you idea including the Seanchan as the source of tension was pretty great (it made me audibly "OOOH" IRL). I don't think it would have worked as well though. Hear me out here, this isn't a personal attack, I promise, just a lengthy alternative perspective. I always figured Rand intentionally left things ambiguous during his first meeting with Egwene in the White Tower. His main objective, as explained by Elayne at the Field of Merrilor, was to assemble the nations of the world, something he couldn't do himself. The White Tower had more sway with some nations, and he had more sway with others. By not explaining his motives to her, she has assembled a large enough force that wasn't originally meant to fight him, but to show that there were enough people against his plan to at least cause him to consider an alternative. In the end, his main objective was the signing of the Peace of the Dragon, which he accomplished by the intentional ambiguity. As to the relationship between Egwene and Rand being seemingly discarded...I don't know how to properly word my transition, so I am just going to get into it...Up until Rand entering his "Zen" state (love that term BTW), he has quite visibly spiraled into madness. He attacked his own forces when he clashed with the Seanchan on the border of Illian, he destroyed Natrin's Barrow and all of its inhabitants with balefire just before abandoning Arad Doman to starvation, and then nearly killed his own father. All of which Egwene has been informed of before meeting him. And that's not to mention the little moments of insanity that she witnessed early on. Rand was not in his Zen form all that long before meeting with her, and he used her preconceptions about him to manipulate her into doing what he couldn't. There is even a moment when their previous relationship is brought to the forefront when she very calmly requests that some of the Aes Sedai examine him to determine his sanity. She doesn't threaten him, she doesn't ignore their relationship or his previous negative experiences with the Aes Sedai, but the calmness she is seeing from him is not jiving with the reports that have had time to get to her about him. Her love (that of a sibling) is portrayed by the gentleness with which she speaks this line, and his respect for her is clear when he departs with as much grace as her new position requires, even bowing and asking her leave to depart, showing that he no longer sees her as JUST Egwene from the Two Rivers, but as a powerful woman in her own right. Here's where I disagree with you on the Seanchan as the focus of the tension. The Seanchan are a huge threat to the White Tower. And to everyone who can channel sure, but Egwene has plans in motion to mesh every woman who can channel with the White Tower, so I think it is safe to say, the Seanchan are primarily a threat to the White Tower. This would be great if Rand's plan was to force the White Tower's forces to Merrilor. But he needs more than just them. The threat of releasing the Dark One affects the WHOLE WORLD and thus is a more suitable threat that would give Egwene's arguments to the other nations some much needed weight to get them to assemble on the Fields of Merrilor. Again, since Rand's goal of "riling" Egwene is to get the Peace of the Dragon signed, I don't think that the Seanchan being the lynch pin would have been enough. Your interpretation on their confrontation on the Fields of Merrilor was the most interesting to me as you expressed disbelief that these two armies, Egwene's combined forces and Rand's combined forces, would actually fight with The Last Battle looming so ominously its practically on their doorstep, knocking on the window, asking if they believe in fairies. (That was a meme reference, feel free to ignore it.) To me, the threat here was that there would be a lack of cooperation during Tarmon Gai'don which would leave to the forces of the Light failing despite Rand's best efforts. I never considered that they would actually fight, attributing Egwene's line, "I will fight you on this," and Rand's "I will refuse to fight the Dark One," as false bravado on both sides, trying to provoke the other into backing down and considering an alternative perspective/plan, which neither are willing to do thanks to their good ol' Two Rivers bred-in stubborn wool-headedness. Meanwhile, the leaders of the nations don't have that deep of a past relationship with Rand and are worried (maybe with the exception of Elayne) that he really will refuse, because he has been slowly going insane and hasn't been in his Zen state for very long. You could, I suppose, argue that seeing him behave so calmly may force them to consider otherwise, but that would mean they would have to ignore their previous knowledge and experiences with him, which is kinda the reason you didn't like this plot point anyway so...I dunno man. In the end, I think it is a matter of interpretation. I clearly got something out of it that you didn't and vise-versa. As to who is right, that's a moot point because neither of us is inherently wrong, its just a matter of perspective (which I hope I have been able to provide here). Cheers man, love the videos, and I hope to see more about the flaws of WOT, as I am a pretty big fanboy myself.

[@mariekeho]

I know it's been 2 years since you posted this comment, but I just finished reading the series and I have to completely agree with your observations! Egwene did not know "Zen" Rand, only the reports of his descend into madness. Him basically strolling in and telling her to break the dark one's prison makes her think he has gone mad, and in order to get her point across to him, wants to gather together the other leaders (and their armies) to show that they stand with the White Tower on this issue. Meanwhile Rand played her like a fiddle, wanting her to do exactly that: rally all forces together under a common cause (even though the last battle should have been a good enough cause lol). Definitely not disregarding Daniel's points in the video, but your comment adds some much needed nuance, thanks :)

[@BumphreyYoughurt]

Perrin rescuing Faile through one million pages takes the price for me for the worst plotline. But the most disappointing plotline for me was the resolution of the Padan Fain-arc. I loved how that mysterious plotline built up in the background through the entire series, how Padan became more and more powerful, and how he somehow seemed even more evil than the Dark One himself. And it finished in like two sentences. It’s obvious Sanderson didn’t have the pages needed for everything and that some plotlines needed to be heavily shortened, but I think he should have prioritized that one.

[@davidsandlin9686]

My favorite part yet one of the most ridiculous parts of the series is that everyone thinks Mats doing a poor/lucky job orchestrating the last battle. Except the one guy who can discern just how good he actually is the insane general across the field Damadred. I mean come on everyone thinks he’s completely blowing the battle but they are like oh well we can keep doing what he says. Meanwhile Damadred thinks he’s fighting Lews Theron because he doesn’t think a mortal can have as much knowledge as Mats showing. Which we as readers understand but no one else does but they still do what he says. It’s all just so brilliantly preposterous.

[@MDP1702]

Well, people obviously keep following his orders because they can only know about a small part of the battlefield, where things don't seem to go well, but they also realise that changing leadership now is stupid, Mart has proven himself quite a bit in the last few books and who could possibly replace him even if they want to? Demandred just like Mart has something others don't, experience and a complete picture of the battle.

[@andrewstrongman305]

Don't forget that Mat was strongly ta'veren. He also had a great reputation for caring about those fighting for him and, of course, he was the most gifted battle commander in history.

[@abj136]

Mat is the general of the Seanchan, and in that society it's unthinkable for the average person to not follow orders, in the middle of battle.

[@abigailslade3824]

david sandlin yes I loved that juxtaposition

[@abigailslade3824]

His use of the villagers that go insane every night was inspired.

[@Gunleaver]

Rand’s threat is a little more plausible than the suggested one. For the readers, I don’t think we are supposed to believe him, but the characters in the story don’t know him that well. Also, I believe the bargaining position is that no one else is going to call his bluff, so anyone who wants to object is going to know he’s outnumbered AND it gives them an out, an excuse to give in to whatever demands Rand makes. The signatories can always excuse their capitulation by saying “Well, I HAD to go along with this, otherwise the world would be doomed.” The people described in the entire series would never agree to having the reviled Aiel placed in a position as guarantors of the treaty! The whole series has been pounding home the point that most rulers are NOT going to simply say “Oh, the Last Battle? Time to pitch in and do my part!” If they were so inclined, they’d have been doing it the moment they heard Rand drew Callandor. Rand’s threat is also a thematic thing - since he took the Stone of Tear, he’s been frustrated by everyone else being more interested in politics and their own agendas than the Last Battle (including and especially Egwene), so now he’s throwing it back in their faces, he’s teaching them a lesson and punishing that recalcitrance. Regarding the alternative suggested threat, that Rand is going to come after the non-cooperators, that's pretty hollow, since most people, including maybe Rand, believe he is going to die at Tarmon Gaidon! That's like threatening people with revenge after you drink your poison and set off your suicide vest. As far as questioning your loyalty, so what? Rand does not need or want it one second past Tarmon Gaidon. If you are the sort of person who is going to be appalled at anybody going on strike for Tarmon Gaidon, you are either an enormous hypocrite, or else your questions are not going to matter, because you are going to fight anyway. Because it’s the Last Battle, dur.

[@joaofarias9986]

He's taveren. Shit goes right for Him because plot. "Because plot" is a system of magic in the Wheel of Time. He wanted them to believe, they believed.

[@gabrielam2757]

Olha aí, outro br fã de Wheel of time

[@joaofarias9986]

Ansioso pra série

[@gabrielam2757]

@@joaofarias9986 caraca demais, pelo lado bom faltam só 2 meses agora kkkk

[@adamosborne685]

I feel like this was Jordans idea that had not been fully formed when he sadly passed. I think Sanderson did his best at completing what Jordan left behind without necessarily cha ging his ideas

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

You probably just hit the nail on the head.

[@johnnurse8684]

I agree , people tend to forget the last three books were by a different author , brandon did a great job giving us an ending to an awesome story , but its still not how robert could have writen it. Who knows if jordan had completed the series we might have had 15 books lol.

[@johnnurse8684]

@Jerry C i was being generous lol

[@blackwolfnews1722]

@@johnnurse8684 we had 15 books, it probably would have been 20 books!

[@Aderran]

You are correct that Egwene remains level headed and patient throughout the White Tower Schism Arc, but I've noticed in the books that wherever Rand is concerned,, Egwene seems to lose control and tends to act on her emotions, usually snapping at him or disagreeing with him. I definitely favour the theory that she is Latra Posae reincarnated, though I also believe that she was reincarnated to make up for her terrific screw up in the War of Power.

[@richardkenan2891]

I kind of wonder what might happen in some future War of Power if Latra Posae might be just a little less rigid and approach Lews Therin and say "OK, I still think your plan is insane, but my plan just went out the window since we've lost the access keys. So, under duress, I'll send a bunch of female Aes Sedai to join the attempt to seal the Bore." Would it get both Saidin *AND* Saidar tainted, or would it imprison the Dark One more effectively, or both? I mean, it would completely change the nature of the Age of Legends and the Third Age, but so would the Dark One winning and breaking the Wheel of Time, so if the latter is possible, the former should be too.

[@breezy3392]

I feel like Egwene never got past contesting Rand or putting herself above Rand as a habit that she's always had since before they left Emmons Field

[@thekraken2216]

I kind of disagree with you about everything here: -Nobody really know Rand among the leaders except for Egwene and Elayne, and they only had rumor about mad Rand and is instability. So the treat kind of look real for them. Only Egwene realise he's bluffing -Egwene still see Rand as she has last seen him, back in book 5, where he was an unexperienced ruler, making bad decision. Plus she has a softspot for him, going under her skin, so it's understandable if she can be rational with him -Rand don't like aes sedai and their habits of trying to control everything and everyone (and he has reason to), that's why he don't explain in depht is plan, and his plan is really risky For me that's why the whole situation kind of work, Rand and Egwene going against each other about the seals (no one can know what will really happen), and the other ruler being pressured in signing the treaty. That's not the best plot line, but it's far from the worst in my opinion, and we have the return of Moiraine which is so nicely executed. One of the worst part for me was Elayne reclaiming the lion throne. It was long, boring, and the reaction of each noble house didn't really make sense to me.

[@digitalhunter42]

I agree the last paragraph

[@MrRjhyt]

For me the thing that most jarred was when Rand sent Mat to get Elayne for Salidar to take the throne. With her mother (allegedly dead) and a power vacuum it was a role only she could fulfil. She still reacted haughtily with Mat, as if she were the ruler of Andor (and so the Two Rivers). Had she no sense of responsibility?! I find it hard to believe she wasn't challenged on that ground alone!

[@nikolaytsankov9066]

There is a thing called bluffing. Thats what Rand did

[@mikepratt7437]

There is one thing you are over-looking about this plot line. It may seem rather negligible, but it is a MOJOR factor in how Rand and Egwene's would play out, and I believe their showdown would have gone the way you suggest if not for it. And that is that they are each missing a piece of their souls from entering the World of Dreams "in the flesh". Losing your soul or even a part of it alters your fundamental personality; it erodes your capacity for things like sympathy, empathy, trust, and rational thought. When I read the scene you described I felt they were in character. Yes, initially I questioned it, but then I remembered the parts about them entering Tel'aran'rhiod, in the flesh and how Egwene was warned that it was an "evil thing". The sad truth is neither character is coming to this meeting with all their marbles.

[@blackwolfnews1722]

Great point! As for Egwene add in the potential taint from Fain, and Halima with her headaches/compulsion and who knows just how far gone she is. Obviously Rand had his trauma's as well, and most of them were sorted, but not all.

[@Keihryon]

I don't know why. But I really don't like the amount of time that passes from EoTW to AMoL only being 2 years. It felt like a decade, at least, had passed. I know traveling, Ways, and Portal Stones. But still.

[@joshuafischer684]

It was 3 years, but Rand. Mat, Perrin. Verin, and a few others miss a good 6 months in tGH when they use the Portal Stone.

[@lavrianinaeve6180]

i have always hated egwene, and i thought that it was "in character" for her to disagree with Rand at the end. I will try to explain myself (sorry for the bad english ;) ) Egwene always thought that she is right. She wants to be the leader, the strongest from the begining. Not for the same reason a nynaeve (pure kindness), Egwene does it because she is certain that she is the best (and because she is really curious, she wants to be involve in everything). She kind of see rand as an idiot from the beginning. An idiot she must protect. She ends up thinking he is crazy. She doesn't see his evolution. She doesn't trust him. And she certainly was glad to show off in front of the others Aes Sedai that she was waaaaayyy better than them. They are terrified by him. But she acts as if she is not. She wants to be at the level of the dragon reborn, nothing less. She has suffer, she thinks that she deserve that, that she is above everyone. She thinks that she is the most intelligent personn, when she is just is the most aes sedai personn ever (which is not a compliment from me). She kind of lost her old self. She belives in the fact that the tower is everything and that it is her right to rule over the world (she tries her best to be humble but she is bad at it). Personnaly i would have get rid of many plot involving Egwene and her course toward power, toward her ideal tower. And i would get rid of her love story, or maybe couple her with another woman, an aes sedai who would have workship her and who would have earn egwene's respect. I see no love in that relationship with the frutrated boy story, only desire.

[@pourartistacrylicsbyshanno3987]

I agree with you on most of what you say BUT.... I don’t think Egwene gives Rand that much credit. She cares about him. She thinks he’s a good hearted person but over and over the books show she thinks he’s hot headed and somewhat inept at stategizing. She rarely if ever trusts his judgement. Sooo I’m not sure a reasonable conversation would’ve gone the way you think it would’ve gone.

[@bobdole2728]

your camera quality is so good! high def!

[@lazyeyery2442]

RJs passing was the worst thing. I like Sanderson alot but I can't help but wonder how things would have went if RJ had been able to finish it.

[@GeorgeKinsill]

Actually, you are brilliant and I'm always impressed by your dedication and analyses of the series. Your videos really got me motivated to finish the series.

[@arturovelez5508]

ACTUALLY.... I love your videos, they introduced me to some of the greatest books that I have read, and that probably would have never heard about otherwise; and even if I dont agree with all you say or think, still respect you, and enjoy your alternate version, hope you go into more detail on future videos.

[@Mr73172]

this is great. love your videos and i agree with you on this. Great shout out and well done

[@ryanratchford2530]

Good series idea & I look forward to seeing more

[@adampontipee9210]

Didn't someone at the big meeting on the field mention that Rand had been "cleverly" provoking Egwene so that she would rally all the countries he didn't have a good grip on behind the White Tower against him, and then once Egwene gets onboard her followers have to as well? It's been a while and I don't remember if it was for the dragon's peace or just to get their armies there. I figured he though if he took an honest approach with Egwene about the seals she (especially with the 3 oaths) might have had more trouble gathering the remaining nations so strongly that they'd have to follow her lead. Either way I still disliked how gungho Egwene was to keeper the seals and face off against him (falling for his plan in this interpretation), and how Rand thought people would believe that he would refuse to fight/people believing him. I distinctly remember she carefully worded her oath to only break them when she felt like it as well and don't remember that it ever explained why she changed her mind or knew when it was time before the anti-balefire incident.

[@GeorgePennington-pj5jj]

Daniel, I love your content dearly and have been watching you for years. I had never seen this video, and it popped into my feed today, making me wonder - have you ever gone back and roasted this iteration of your book shelf? You know, for objectivity’s sake ;)

[@BradJames83]

Also, what I found silly was that Rand had Lews Therin's memories; so he knew about the century-long Collapse and the War of Power. He knew that the Bore was open that entire time and the Dark One never broke free. He had superior knowledge of this and should have impressed that on Egwene. Perhaps in a private meeting as you suggest. The Bore was like a black hole expanding slowly; feeding on matter from the event horizon to grow.

[@michaelhowze8198]

He purposely showed up to fight man. The entire scene is about publically forcing the Tower to bed the knee. Which is exactly what happened Rand knew exactly what he was doing. Oh and it also needed to happen publically for obvious reasons.

[@jacksonlasley6621]

I don't know if it's the worst plotline to me, but the "relationship" between Mat and Tylin. Mat is raped repeatedly by her, but the book itself portrays this idea as a sort sexual fantasy, despite the fact he's being forced to have sex with her at knifepoint. Jordan's idea of swapping gender roles with the Aes Sedai being women worked well enough to highlight a message, so it's baffling how poorly written Mat's rape is, especially given how terrifying the whole thing would be if the roles were reversed. Tl;Dr: Mat being raped and the story acting as if it isn't abominable is really poorly thought out and it's pretty disgusting how lightly it's portrayed.

[@justwinfelipe6495]

Maybe Jordan was pointing out that hypocrisy. Men have and do suffer rape, no human should have to endure that.

[@jacksonlasley6621]

I could see that being the intention, but if that is indeed the idea, I still think it's poorly written. There's absolutely no self-awareness too it, it acts too much like Mat getting raped over and over is something desirable.

[@destinygalearies7382]

I don't think it was really portrayed as desirable, when you read Elayne and Nynaeve's reactions it's more like "lol that's what you get for being such a player" and not taking him seriously. I'm pretty sure the role reversal was supposed to be of rape victims not being believed/taken seriously out of the belief that the relationship with their rapist is actually beneficial/what they SHOULD want.

[@TRUc972]

I don’t know what the definition of ‘rape ‘ is in other countries, but reading this in the UK, Mat wasn’t raped. You have to have a certain something that females don’t have to commit a rape. Just saying.

[@jacksonlasley6621]

@@TRUc972 Ok, so being forced to have sex against your wishes at knifepoint doesn't count as rape to you?

[@joshuafischer684]

My favorite thematic idea in the series is that women are just as bad as men when put in power.

[@KeeliaSilvis]

Dangit Daniel this video makes me want to reread the entire series even tho I just finished a month ago and I DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR A REREAD. 😭

[@daemonblackfyre3238]

I had that problem to madam. Then I got the audio books. 😉

[@Peter-dk2ov]

Audiobooks for the win

[@manuellemos6859]

ACTUALLY!!! This was a really cool video that I enjoyed. I as well thought it was confusing when I first read it. I thought this doesn’t sound like them. I took it as maybe their new roles or a new writers interpretation of them. Keep these going, I’d like to hear more on your thoughts and opinions.

[@Spacenugget9]

Least favourite plotline is Elayne being pregnant and trying to secure Andor, I wish we'd been in someone else's head because she just constantly whines about the consequences of her actions and blames Rand almost entirely when it takes two to tango (and in this case she was the driving factor). This entire thing seemed to be aimed at challenging Min's viewings with Elayne taking crazy risks and then with Mellar/Hanlon going full bloom sadist on Elayne, while ultimately holding Min's viewings to be true. How I would have liked to see it happen: Elayne is much more accepting of Aviendha and Min getting to sleep with Rand and doesn't push that, and Mellar is cut entirely, while Elayne secures the throne as it is written but maybe sped up a little bit. This would change almost nothing considering that Moiraine's rescue from the Eelfin was the ultimate proof that Min's viewings were never wrong.

[@quieroversipuedo]

Actually... This was a good review. Keep up the good work

[@billmilligan7272]

For me the worst one was that stupid deathless village Mat had to solve. "Hinderstap", maybe? It felt completely wrong. It felt like it was excerpted from a completely different series, the tone was wrong, and worst of all, the Mat in those scenes was just completely wrong. I find it interesting that your least favorite plot line was also a Sanderson line. I really like Brandon for the most part but there were a few places where I was reading his WoT stuff going, "Geez, I could have done better than this."

[@michaelmurphy748]

I disagree that Egwene was reasonable. She was reasonable only when she had the idea. Power corrupted her.

[@theflashhobbyist]

She never really thought highly of him. She kinda got super brain washed by the tower into distrusting male channelers and remember how long it took for the girls to see Matt as anything but a nuisance while he was saving them and he saved them a bunch of times so think about how little shes interacted with Rand since she went to the tower. She 100% doesn’t see him as the zen Rand but as the farm boy or crazy channeler we just need to control long enough to win. That’s why i thought it made sense. She thinks he’s crazy.

[@matthewizard3617]

I think that idea does flow better, but I think there is also a few good reasons why it happened that way. Earlier in the series, it mentions how whenever Rand and Egwene meet, it brings Rand back to being a kid in the Two Rivers and they end up arguing. They can talk sometimes, but theres almost always an argument between them. In addition to that, whenever it's from Egwenes perspective, she always seems to have a negative opinion about Rand, and she seems to always think he's doing the wrong thing, or shes worried about him messing up, so her doubt about him is there.

[@the_freebeard]

I hated the Bowl of Winds plot line. It drug on, and on, and on, AND ONNNNNN. And let's be honest, writing from the feminine perspective isn't Robert Jordan's strong suit. So when he writes a plot line that is almost exclusively involving the female characters, it's not good.

[@TheMaginor]

I enjoyed the Ebou Dar plotline up until the usage of the bowl and the escape to Andor. What came later was much less interesting in my opinion. Basically the darkfriends in Caemlyn have this overly intricate plan built up over several books, and then it is hilariously foiled through little effort.

[@bozoforce]

@Robert thirdly, be glad Harriet decided not to continue the wheel of time or other authors would have made a mess of it worse than the novels of Star Wars. Sanderson was already getting the basics of channeling wrong. Writing about "her saidar" and other errors. Making mat a flat character. Making generals fight in the frontlines instead of coordinating battles from forward operating bases.

[@deejayreynolds8172]

I admit I have a problem with this plot that I think could have been solved with a simple conversation. For me the worst plot is Berelain and Failes competition for Perrin. It meant nothing and went nowhere completely pointless

[@lukaskeel5337]

This was great. Much many thanks

[@Jrdn357]

6:10 I laughed my head off when he said: "Oh yeah, and if you don't sign it.... I'll let the world end." It's just the way he says it XD

[@Siansonea]

[Actually, this comment contains spoilers, as usual] I think Egwene's skepticism is well within her character. To say Egwene has trust issues might be the understatement of the century. And Rand has been wildly unstable since they all left Emond's Field, and she has been separated from him for long periods. In a lot of ways, she doesn't really know him at all anymore, and every time she sees him, he's a changed man in dramatic ways. Egwene also knows that Rand has been subject to the taint on saidin for well over a year, and even though saidin is clean at this point, she doesn't know how much irreversible damage has been done to his psyche. In a lot of ways, post 'Veins Of Golf' Rand is even more of a stranger than he was at his darkest. This new Rand is much different than the Rand she knew even a few months prior. And this new Rand wants to BREAK THE SEALS ON THE DARK ONE'S PRISON. Um, come again? You want to do what now? A lot of things have to be going through Egwene's mind. Did one of the Forsaken kidnap Rand and turn him? Is he under the influence of Compulsion? Or has he just lost the last of his marbles? Is this even Rand? There are things you can take on trust, and things you can't. Breaking the last remaining Seals is one of those things. And Rand is just so...weird. Egwene struggled for too long to restore the White Tower, she's not going to proceed carelessly when it comes to the Last Battle. Rand is so cavalier in his certainty that this is the proper course of action, but how can Egwene possibly share that certainty? His plan seems to amount to 'trust me, we're friends'. Not good enough. Even if Rand is perfectly sane, the thing he is inexpertly proposing is the most reckless thing anyone can imagine. You are literally unleashing the Dark One to touch the world as he did during the War of Power. That is a thing no one wants. And wanting to have a private audience with a male channeler when you are the head of the Aes Sedai is an incredibly foolish risk. This new Rand could use Compulsion on Egwene, or Travel with her against her will, or any number of other things. Egwene has had enough of that sort of thing, so naturally she's not going to suggest it. Also, she has also only just secured her place as Amyrlin, she's not about to leave the Sitters to stew in their own juices while the Last Battle is decided without them. She knows that would incite open rebellion even among her most ardent supporters. Aes Sedai can't be commanded the way the Asha'man are, they are too accustomed to the reins of power being in their own hands. She has to make sure they are fully committed to whatever it is they decide to do, if Egwene just proclaims the Aes Sedai to be subservient to Rand, she is no better than Elaida. The Aes Sedai have to decide for themselves, as a group, by consensus. Egwene would have the recent example of Elaida's Trumpian authoritarianism to serve as a cautionary tale.

[@KeeliaSilvis]

^almost identical to my views

[@MilkshakeEmber]

@Jerry C They didn't say Jesus Rand was wildly unstable. They said that Rand had been wildly unstable since leaving the Two Rivers and that is true. Every time Egwene meets him during the series he's different than he was before. Reports from the White Tower's eyes and ears describe him as erratic and filled with temper. To boot, Egwene was never particularly loyal or respectful to her friends, and had little-to-no trust in Rand from the very beginning. So even when she sees him as a Wise Monk, she has no idea what's beneath the surface, or where the anger has gone, or what he might do next. From her perspective, he's the least consistent person in the whole world.

[@MDP1702]

@Jerry C The zen might actually be seen as being part of his madness. Madness manifesting as zen on the outside, but crazy on the inside is a much better explanation from Egwene's point than he having linked with his previous live and become so wise in such a short time.

[@arkainonreaper]

As for Rand's threat: Yes, we as readers know he wouldn't carry it out. Most of those close to him knows he wouldn't carry it out. He himself never had any intentions of not fighting. But what you're forgetting is that he was playing on the fears of others, and of the prophecies that say he'll break the world and destroy it. Most of those not close to Rand, and even some who were, were still afraid of him and what he may or may not do, and he used that fear to make them sign the Dragon's Peace. Those who knew there was nothing to fear did not need convincing to begin with, as they trusted Rand's judgment and knew this was the best course of action. I think it was well done.

[@rudyg.8757]

Hey, I do agree that the plot line itself has issues, but I think the existing issue is better tweaked than changed. I can't agree that the Seanchan issue would be a better thing to hinge this conflict on instead of Breaking the Seals. Yes, Egwene hates them and the White Tower as a whole does as well, but as you said earlier she has shown her level-head and growth as a character. Even for the Seanchan she can put her hatred aside from the Last Battle. Pettiness towards fighting alongside the Seanchan, however justified in normal situations, is nothing but pointless and petty in the face of the literal end of all things. That would, in my opinion, have been sorta really ridiculous. I think instead we just tweak what actually happened. They are still against him for wanting to break the seals but Rand does actually try to explain himself. He can't tell them everything he plans though because he cannot risk it being revealed to the Shadow, so they have to trusthim when he says breaking the seals is necessary to permanently imprison the Dark One. The simplest reply for conflict is - then don't. Just patch it up, I mean really why should any of us trust a madman who very recently as been seen to be, from their persective, power-tripping and proving the term madman, when he says he can match the Creator's own work in sealing the Dark One away. Just patch it. It isn't perfect, but we have survived with it for thousands of years and it's better to survive and fight on than to risk utter destruction on the gambit of a man everyone present was raised to believe would destroy them. This is him saying outright that he will utterly destroy the world, break it again as p rophesied. They have to find another way. So, tweak what he reveals so that Rand is more open and logical in the information he shares, and also tweak the reactions to be more realistic according to everything that's been previously set up, making everything tighter and more sensical. This is the equivalent to a man who is foretold will destroy all nuclear weapons coming out and telling the U.N. that in order to complete his destiny he has to launch all the nukes first because just disarming them won't permanently remove the warheads. Yeah, he might be right but that's a risk not worth taking for world leaders who are used and trained for life to push back problems and compromise for the best possible solution rather than risk everything on gambits. Also Zen Jesus Rand isn't known to everyone in the world since it's so recent a thing. Crazy Stone Messiah [band name] fated to break the world is more well known [remember the scene with the borderland rulers], so threatening not to fight if he doesn't get his way is pretty believable to the people Egwene represents, who she knows may not abide by her decision if she just demurs due to personal trust in Crazy Stone Death Messiah's plan to launch the nukes so he can put away the nukes. And she herself doesn't know him personally anymore, and all the trust she had can be washed away by Crazy Stone Messiah and the code-switching that occurs when you rise to such a position of global responsbility and know the other person has changed as much as you, but from what you are told and were raised to believe has changed in horribly bad ways. And Rand himself would never do it, but threatening to do so in order to get what needs to be done done is an acceptable break from character because it's a hard decision he has to make, and its a soft threat he knows he won't go through on. Saying it to get what needs to be done, done, makes sense. Wall of text but you always say that's good, so I ain't apologizing. Sorry for not apologizing.

[@onlirier2993]

Honestly, I somewhat disagree. I think it's perfectly reasonable that Egwene reacted the way she did. Look at it from her perspective: She's finally seeing Rand again for the first time since like Lord of Chaos, and the first thing he does is ask her to help him free the Dark One.

[@Werrf1]

For me, it's the story where people who should be friends and allies decide not to tell one another anything, and end up working at cross purposes and/or being in trouble with no backup for no readily apparent reason.

[@BradJames83]

It was a tactic and I think this happens because Egwene has kind of forgotten who she and he is and Moiraine helps bring them back (expositional). Also, Perrin knows - probably Cadsuane too - knew his threat was a bluff.

[@ZubinMadon]

(Long comment warning!) Finally finished Wheel of Time, and ended up watching like 10 of your videos (thanks for making them). I've only read the last few books once. Right now, I respectfully disagree with this assessment. I think the two "threats" were both handled reasonably well, I think Egwene being stubborn on the seals makes sense, and I think the idea of Egwene refusing to fight with the Seanchan would not do justice to her character development up to that point. Specifically: - Rand's threat to not fight in the last battle is mostly taken as a (shocking) rhetorical point, something similar to the game of houses at a geopolitical level. The threat acts as a tool to make it clear that anyone who might end up refusing to sign is putting the world at risk (because they are, if anyone has to be watching their back for after the last battle). - The threat of a bloody confrontation was. on the other hand, very real. That nobody wanted it made it even more real rather than less. The continent had been undergoing stresses and changes for years now. Loyalties were divided (Cairhien under Elayne was still precarious, The White Tower had just been only minutes from civil war, Tear was wary of Cairhien and Illian, etc.). Keep in mind, at the point where this is in doubt, the reader doesn't *really* know what the last battle will look like. It could have been that the actual trolloc invasion would be the only thing to unite the nations of the world. It was close to that anyways. - As for Egwene and the seals. Keep in mind, she's still young. Smart, strong, determined, wise beyond her years, but young. And she knows how others see her because of it. And she knows she has to *be* the Amyrlin seat. The keeper of the seals. And the tower had almost fallen, and she takes responsibility for it, despite it not being her fault. And she hasn't really spoken much with Rand in a long time now, and she really hasn't seen him grow, and news of him has been dark. And "she was the Amyrlin seat." This is exactly the type of thing that Egwene has grown into. - Whereas Egwene refusing to fight alongside the Seanchan? Well, Egwene had grown to a point where she was pragmatic. With her abundance of superego (see above) she had explicitly squashed her ego. While there could have been a few paragraphs of inner conflict, she was never going to put up serious resistance to fighting alongside the Seanchan in the last battle.

[@tylorfox783]

Petition to change Zen Rand to Rand Sedai, since he's the last male Aes Sedai

[@yissnakklives8866]

Biggest thing that killed me throughout the series is the absolute lack of communication. These people relearned how to travel instantly between places but never figured out a way to just place a call. Why not a little stone receptacle on everyone's desk and a tiny portal to speak through? Why not something else? Speaking over long distances shouldn't have been an issue (they mention doing it easily in the age of legends) - this seemed to be the overall issue throughout the series in almost every instance. They meet in dreams but this is relegated to specific people....

[@danalou_who7765]

I just found your channel, and I hope that Rafe and his writers take your criticism into account. I think your solution works much better. You make perfect sense to me.

[@robinsonfreitag7498]

I just finished the series....and I am suprised, that so many people are hating Egwene. I love Egwene. She is a very hard working girl growing into a powerful strong woman. From the beginning of the series till the end, she strives to play the part expected from her...which is very very humanly i think....first the wise ones....then the aes sedai....then the amrylin seat...she trys to be the best at her task......the task of the white tower, and therfore her task as amrylin seat, is to guide the dragon reborn. She thinks, that this guidance is needed because it is what aes sedai think in general.....every one....moraine, siuan, cadsuane, nynaeve, the wise ones also think that way....of course she adapts those thoughts. I love her fight in the White tower, it is fantastic to see her grow that powerful her willpower is incredible and her fighting in the last battle was a fitting death for her. I somehow didn't like her relationship with Gawyn though....he didn't fit in...it wasn't a strong love and they never were equals....gawyn always egwenes shadow...she didn't need a lover. During this egwene-rand- confilct I permanently asked myself why they didn't talk to eachother.......but throughout the last few books I often thought: "You have those bloody gateways, you are able to communicate with everyone you want at any time! Talk to eachother!" Would probably destroy some tension though.....with everyone knowing whats going on.....:)

[@manolismylonas9886]

I agree with you a lot. I got so annoyed through this meeting, especially with Egwene, who was basically denying Rand, bc she thinks that Aes Sedai rule, and they always are correct and must be heard and respected.

[@oliviafuchs9187]

It is speculated that Egwene al'Vere may be the reborn soul of Latra Posae. Indeed, Egwene's role and interaction with Rand al'Thor (Lews Therin reborn) immediately prior to the Last Battle closely mirror those of Latra's prior to the Dark One's imprisonment and Breaking of the World. Egwene initially rejected Rand's proposal to break the seals on the Dark One's prison and formed a large faction of Aes Sedai and world leaders to oppose him. However, unlike her ancient predecessor, Egwene is convinced to aid in Rand's plan and the female Aes Sedai and Rand's followers are able to amass a joint assault on the forces of the Dark One which eventually leads to a decisive victory of the Light. wot.fandom.com/wiki/Latra_Posae_Decume

[@blackwolfnews1722]

I hate how your alternate take makes so much more sense! LoL, that said I have always felt that Egwene was perhaps tainted by Fain, and the headaches from Halima. Not turned to the dark one yet....but tainted, like the Ways.

[@jamesjacoby4485]

I always just contributed the egwene rand dynamic as a continuation of the disagreement between lews therin and the female aes sedai during the age of legends. While this book explicitly tells us reincarnation is real we never discover who any one else is beyond rand. It is implied that elyane may be ilyena sunhair, and that Matt not only received the memories of great men, but may have actually been a few of them, but we don't really get any clue as to who anyone else may be. So we have to look at subtext and draw our own conclusions. So given the limited info we have we can see some parallels. Egwenes entire story arc post book 3 is learning how to master herself and bring people, mostly female channelers together. She sees how fragmented the female channelers of the world are and sets her mind to build bridges and connect them. She literally pulls the tower from the ashes and rebuilds the aes sedai order. This puts her in line with an aes sedai named Latra Posae Decume from the age of legends. She was the one who convinced the female channelers to band together in rejection of lews therin plan to seal the dark ones prison. In that past life she was directly responsible for the splintering of the servants and indirectly culpable for the tainting of saidin. Wheel of time implies, though poorly, that the characters aren't just dealing with the baggage of this life but of past lives as well. So egwene isnt just refusing rand she is also having to over come her own historical biases just as rand has to to resolve his current life with that of lews therin. Is is implied and confirmed by rand on the mountain top that this is there chance to love again and get things right. They get the chance to change and create something new. Though as arbitrary and frustrating as Egwenes actions may seem, especially compared to the rest of her character arc, she is used as a final nail in the female/male separation and imbalance story line that in many ways she started if this reincarnation theory is to be believed. Even with her hesitation and disbelief she finally agrees to trust rand, something she was unable to do in the age of legends. Rand was able to humble himself before the world, something he was not able to do before. They are able to work together, saving the world in the process. I agree that it is clunky and not all together satisfying in its presentation. Maybe this is just a casualty of poor writing. I love wheel of time but it is not the best written work. The dialog and character motivation need some serious love. Much of it doesn't feel realistic in a post game of thrones world. My biggest gripe with wot is that the characters often feel like static exaggerated versions of themselves. Yes they have motivations but they don't always feel like motivations that real people would have. But I digress, I don't know if my theory is right but that is what I have always attributed to be the cause of rand and Egwenes tumultuous relationship. Thanks for the video! 💖

[@Ishamael907]

Agree 100%

[@bozoforce]

I agree with your observation except in one tiny details. Ilenya sunhair was reincarnated as three women: Elayne, Aviendha and Min.

[@steveo7265]

Maybe if it didn't take so damn long to resolve itself I would've liked it better, but Faile captured by Shaido all the way to Faile rescued is painful for me. Edit: Dang, Perrin has to save Faile a lot in the books doesn't he? Hedgehog trap in Tel'aran'rhiod, Shaido, smothered by a trolloc corpse (or maybe a horse? I forgot)

[@drewlovs]

I’m really late to this party! I remember when all of these things were being brought up on Dragonmount, right after the last book was released. Sanderson tried to answer all the questions, but in the end just had the attitude of “I’m over this.” Looking back up on it now, I think Sanderson was in a no-win situation. He was sticking to how Jordan wanted it done, but I think if Jordan was writing it himself, he would’ve made changes so it flow better and made more sense. But he obviously could not do that, and Sanderson did not have the clout to make those changes himself. We were destined to have the ending Jordan envisioned, but without him able to edit it as it unfolded into written word... does that make sense?

[@revpembroke3082]

Yes, he would leave that crucial information out. This is Wheel of Time. If it's useful for other characters to know, it's kept a secret.

[@frocat5163]

ACKSHUALLY... I just wanted to type that. I like your take on changing the source of Rand and Egwene's final conflict.

[@Spacenugget9]

Nynaeve being on Rand's side prior to Merilor completed the ultimate transformation of her from whiny to badass, and I love it. Conversely, Egwene automatically calling Rand's plan stupid just because he's the Dragon Reborn really hurt her character, and I really don't love it. This is sad to me, because book 12 Egwene was awesome, but I guess she never went into it trying to change the establishment.

[@beyonddaylight5556]

What's frustrating is there are so many 'I know better' plotlines like this throughout the series. One of my main gripes

[@shawnn7502]

Agree with you on this particular plot-line. Again, the main purpose here was to drill it into our heads that a woman would never willingly follow a man, and that a woman would always think they have the better solution and need to be the one in control. As if the first 10,000 pages of the series hadn't done that already. Other bad plot-lines? Holy cow. Perrin and Faile... period. They suck together. Nynaeve and Lan.... period. Say what? Huh? Still to this day I don't get why those characters are together other than Lan liking young girls. The entire plot-line to save Moraine and Thom-Moraine.... Man, it is in the past. Let the past stay in the past. Why bring her back? UGHHH!!!!! The Seanchan... seriously, did they even play much of a role in the end? What was their point? Huh.

[@Streamweaver]

I see Rand's threat to "not fight the dark one" differently. Ultimately, he knows he can't win without everyone on the same side. So if he knows it can't be won, saying he wont fight isn't all that evil.

[@Violetsoul6]

I agree with the first one you said,--the conflict between Egwene and Rand I actually forgot about it until just now. I recall it really bothering me. It just didn't feel right.

[@jaymkay7211]

ACHUALLY... I do agree the Rand-Egwene confrontation felt kind of forced, but I felt it a good plot as it mirrored Lews Therin's confrontation with Latra Posae Decume. It felt right for the overall story IMHO.

[@SoFarSoFree]

Daniel says stopping the video early will hurt him...I walk away and let the video run to the end. Respect you that much Mr Greene.

[@arthurmalavasic6788]

I think you sorta nailed it when you said you liked how they calmed it all down by re-introducing Moirane. I always assumed this was just a rushed way to do that.