Why The Hobbit Trilogy Failed To Equal Lord Of The Rings

[@TheCriticalDrinker]

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[@vinzingerakaelotakuakatheweebp]

How many of you guys want to see the Drinker review Anime every Wedenesday and which anime do you want to see the Drinker review?

[@x0re89]

keep up your work man, one of the few honest people left here it seems.

[@plantboi7746]

I like the dragoon

[@rjofusetsudzin8011]

Drinker I think Hobbit is another great idea for production hell, what do you think?

[@rjofusetsudzin8011]

@@vinzingerakaelotakuakatheweebp Cowboy Bebop is perect type of anime for Drinker and he would have lot of fun with it. Fairy Tail on the other hand would be excellent choice for roasting something.

[@tannerrennat7786]

The only movie adaptation, where it's quicker to just read the book.

[@fiercephoenix4389]

More fun too

[@ZapDash]

Is it really? I wouldn't doubt it, but if this is a true fact then it is amazing.

[@Awolfx]

@@ZapDash I've read the Hobbit twice, and if anything it'll keep your interest more often than all 3 movies will combined.

[@vivechjorviani5440]

Audiobook is on KZbin and actually is faster and better written

[@politicallycorrectredskin796]

Also the only book with talking purses and dog servants who walk on two legs. Silly as the movies were, they could have been even sillier.

[@JimmyC1994]

I remember chatting with my mate about this film and we were like "The Gollum scene was amazing" and "the scene with Bilbo and Smaug was great" and "the scene with the trolls was awesome" and then eventually we realized "so basically all the scenes that were actually IN the Fucking book were the best scenes???"

[@soccerchamp0511]

Yea, they literally could have (and should have) made just one movie with just those scenes from the book.

[@JimmyC1994]

@@soccerchamp0511 exactly. Two at an absolute push but three was just milking it unnecessarily

[@Dookieman1975]

@@JimmyC1994 a duo-logy of 2 hour movies would work way better than what they had to fill out, and this is coming from someone who likes the hobbit movies

[@xymos7807]

I saw Desolation of Smaug when it premiered at the movie theater I worked at. Saw it Midnight Release and I fell asleep about half way through the movie. It was so damn dry and long.

[@JimmyC1994]

@@xymos7807 I didn't even bother seeing Battle of the Five Armies

[@BingBangPoe]

Well, in Peter Jackson's defense, he didn't even want to direct those films, and fought for it to be one movie instead of a trilogy.

[@violenceislife1987]

Yep

[@tiaaaron3278]

After 6 years and the extensive documentary by Lindsay Ellis, I can't believe there are some idiots who blame Jackson for this.

[@LoremasterYnTaris]

Aye, almost everything that people hate about the films can be laid solidly at the feet of the producers, and almost all of them were fought tooth and nail by Jackson.

[@millcha]

Guillermo De Toro is to blame because the fat oaf cant just stick to a project.. Most the dumb things thrown in were his doing, back when he was supposed to direct he thought of multiple movies .. I hope someone takes a book of all the movies GDT has abandoned and smacks him across the head with it

[@user-microburst]

Didn’t know that

[@Sahmgirl]

The things you hated about the dwarfs is actually how theyre described in the book. Bombur, for example, was described as ridiculously fat. Same with the dragon. His motivation IS just gold hoarding in the book. He is an architype of people in power. I agree with you on most of your rants, Drinker, but not on this one.

[@BoberFett]

Agreed, seems like some of his criticism is of the Tolkien story, as opposed to the movie itself.

[@luismancerapascual4608]

They could have actually dig a bit deeper in the lore, and without much drifting make Smaug an agent for Sauron to conquest all the Northern part of Middle Earth. With the Nigromancer in the forest and the goblins in the mountains, Smaug destruction of the Dwarf Kingdom is instrumental to take control of that Northeast quadrant. And with Arthedain long gone, only Rivendel stood up against them at that moment. Put a bit of that into the story and, although not faithful to the letter ti the book, you have a much more compelling story that is strongly tied to the lore

[@Alexandermeister]

That's why some books just don't make for good movies. They should have left the Hobbit alone.

[@booperdee2]

i think the main problem is that the films are trying to be LoTR. You can have simply motivated antagonists which drive the protagonists in a certain way, to contrast and frame them rather than defining the antagonist. The simple concept of the dwarves being ruined by their greed personified as a dragon that results in losing it all, only for the dragon (greed) to then be defeated by the characters exhibiting the virtues contrary to that, Dont even need Smaug to even have any lines of dialogue.

[@Chaorchy]

Yeah, dragons are just dragons. They dont need a reason to want to sleep on a pile of gold.

[@sodagirl1092]

"I'm old, Gandalf... I feel stretched somehow.. like...like a single book stretched over 3 movies each with a 2 hour run time and random Dwarf x Elf fanfiction thrown in"

[@piotrwisniewski70]

"that's oddly specific Bilbo"

[@americantopteam135s-t7]

Haha

[@austins.2495]

Underrated comment

[@scottdoesntmatter4409]

Be frank with you, if this trilogy had merely been two flicks without all the extra nonTolkein written scenes, I would have bought the fancy pants version and cherished it. As it is, I wouldn't touch this trilogy with a cattle prod.

[@josiahthibodeaux]

Boy that’s a mouthful.

[@ravioli_826]

In the book Smaug is the personification of greed. He’s meant to be a warning of what someone becomes when they get their hands on the treasure under the mountain. Tolkien’s biggest influence was Nordic mythology, where dragons hoard gold under a similar context.

[@Gaia_Gaistar]

This, I think Drinker missed that.

[@GG-ir1hw]

Dragons were also created by Morgoth, so are very much bred for committing war crimes. It’s why he foreshadows wanting to align with Sauron (Morgoth’s servant). Also the film stays very true to the book with the dragon been under the mountain for so long. I don’t think it’s source of Sustenance was ever mentioned.

[@brucetucker4847]

Yes, and he's also more of a force of nature than a character. The important characters are the dwarves, men, and elves, and Bilbo. The novel doesn't really have a villain in the traditional sense, that's not its point.

[@spacemarinechaplain9367]

Yeah, he isn’t supposed to be an ultra complex character in fact he’s more of an obstacle or plot device than a character.

[@thatonetitan8456]

@@GG-ir1hw It's mentioned in the book. He's like a snake. He eats a literal fuckload of dwarves and then hibernates on his gold 100 years. Also, smaug is basically a baby. If you want a real kick in the pants, google an estimated size chart of Tolkien dragons

[@pawarl.o.s.881]

Legolas and Gimli mending the relationship between Elves and Dwarves by becoming brothers in arms was handled a million times better than the forced relationship between Kili and Tariel.

[@SolarFlareAmerica]

Nice BIONICLE dude

[@cowboycurtis2229]

But they were both so pretty! How could you not have a love story between such pretty people, even if it makes no sense at all?

[@Frosty1979]

You know their names? Wow, I only remembered them as Hobbit-dwarf and the "Lost" woman.

[@SoWhosGae]

Wasn't it Tauriel?

[@schmidtythekidd]

@@Frosty1979 Funnily enough Evangeline Lilly dated Dominic Monaghan for awhile. A hobbit and an elf Lost on an island.

[@SlidingRhino]

You'll need to revisit this, as we now know the Hobbit trilogy is now a work of art compared to Rings of powet

[@technojack3719]

Isn't this sad? That we accept crap because there's something crappier? I for one would prefer quality, but that's just me.

[@vaultboy4710]

​@@technojack3719It's a common occurrence. Halo 4 now gets similar treatment. Gets praise for simply not being as bad as halo 5. 😂

[@jackjack3358]

@@technojack3719 Hobbit wasn't crap tbh

[@your.dark.lord.]

Yep. 1 wasn't totally crap though, just needed some editing to take out the drivel..2 and 3 is where they dropped the ball. I only watch the 2 hour fanedit of the 3 films and it's waay better

[@Nawona]

@@technojack3719 saw it again for the fifth or sixth time yesterday, and it is NOT crap. It is full of heart. Also , even the worse CG in it are miles above some of the stuff produced today in any Disney produced feature. And the best CG in it remains absolutely stellar today. The character animation of Azog is incredible, that character has so much expression, you can feel the hate. The entire scene in the Goblin cave has some fantastic character animation. The worse fx in the first movie has to be Radagast and his rabbits being chased by the Wargs, and yet it does not bother me like most of today’s MCU shit fx. Smaug was awesome. The introduction of Gollum was awesome. Tauriel is a great character and you feel for her when she mourns Kili at the end of the last movie. I could go on and on, this trilogy might not be LOTR, but it’s faithfull in spirit, and it’s worthy of it as a nice extension of the "Peter Jackson universe" imo. Like a cartoon version of it almost

[@antonab1]

"The only thing more powerful than the one ring is Hollywoods desire to milk a franchise dry" still true to this day with Amazon making the rings of power.🤣🤣

[@carljohan9265]

According to the creators, the rings of power will be the most expensive TV show ever. If that's true, I will find it hard to contain my laughter as it tanks worse than Titanic 😆

[@moonbeeps]

@@carljohan9265 Tanks worse than Titanic?

[@carljohan9265]

@@moonbeeps Yes. Hyped AF, expensive to make, most disappointing debut imaginable. Just like Titanic.

[@moonbeeps]

@@carljohan9265 I agree on The Hobbit but Titanic is literally iconic and a classic. I don't see the relation between the two. I was 9 or 10 when Titanic came out. I'm 33 now and I'm guessing you're older since you're talking about the hype and "disappointing premiere" that there was in 97, but "hyped AF" coming out of a 40 year old is extremely cringy to me. Also, Titanic was the highest-grossing film of all time only being surpassed by a movie made by the same director. So, "disappointing debut imaginable" is far from reality. Unless you're trolling, it makes absolutely no sense comparing the worldwide success of Titanic to a fantasy trilogy that flopped enormously.

[@moonbeeps]

@@carljohan9265 Also, it costed $200 million and gained a worldwide total of $2.195 billion. I'm lost here so you gotta help me where you went wrong.

[@Dartowl1]

“What inspired you to make the hobbit a trilogy instead of a stand alone film?” Warner brothers: “money.”

[@shan4680]

Three films that each grossed over $950 million just at the box office, I believe?

[@rjofusetsudzin8011]

Unfortunately thats true. Its even more funny when you realize that whole point of Hobbit is not to be greedy asshole.

[@omarnavarro9690]

I think two solid 2 1/2 hour movies would´ve worked

[@rjofusetsudzin8011]

@@omarnavarro9690 While I enjoyed the trilogy as whole I agree that third one was definetly prolonging battle too much.

[@m.m.5448]

...and it was super easy, barely an inconvenience....

[@tehpeasant]

As someone who really loves the book: The problem is not that Smaug is a bad main villain, the problem is that the movies focus too much on him and tries to make more out of him than there really is. The book is not really about Smaug, it's really about the journey and about Bilbo as a character being on his first adventure. Smaug doesn't need to have any big motives or plans, he just needs to be there as the final obstacle for Bilbo and the dwarves.

[@patricktinkl4996]

Exactly. Smaug almost doesn't need to be a character at all

[@tarron3237]

Exactly

[@trixstermillion2190]

And that is all the Big Bad you need for a 300-page kids' book.

[@marvelsomething1952]

He's like a laser grid in a heist movie which presents the final obstacle to the heroes. There's no point trying to give him a complex character. Instead they should've focused more on the dwarves. You don't have to give them all complex arcs, but pick a handful and develop them well. And don't make the others so goofy.

[@Phonoodles408]

The thing is books and movies aren’t the same

[@TheBalisongBear]

One of my favorite moments in LOTR is when Gimli finds the tomb in Moria. Then the orcs start coming. Everyone else gets ready, but they're all clearly afraid. But not Gimli. "Let them come, and they shall see that there is yet one dwarf in Moria who still draws breath."

[@Shcreamingreen]

And he jumps on Balin's grave, which apparently is a sign of respect in the USA (in the book he cut off the legs of an orc who did that thing)

[@DarkSpells87]

To Smaug's defense dragons of Middle Earth are canonicaly opsessed with gold. He doesn't need another motivation.

[@darthdragonborn1552]

Yeah there’s a few other points in this video like that one, where it’s just a criticism of the book. And him saying Smaug wasn’t menacing and charismatic is 1000% wrong. Him and Gollum were the few things they got right.

[@dartimosthatsit6001]

A lot that was described as filler had book basing. Gandalf exposing the witchking is one that comes to mind. Beating that with a stick while giving only passing mention to (minor character) dwarf on (made up character) elf action seems like reaching for high fruit when there was so much lower fruit.

[@josephjackson4312]

@Simp Zilla The thing i dont like about how they handled Smaug is how they had the archer just see its weakness from a distance, the missing scale. I feel using the invisibility with the ring to get up close to find that missing scale and then tell the archer about it is like Bilbo's biggest contribution to the entire story and they took that away from him.

[@starkillersneed]

I think it's possible to change and improve on a character's shallow motivation in an adaptation; just look at Thanos, a villain trying to donate half the Universe to Lady Death's OnlyFans, who was converted by the MCU into a complex anti-villain who comitted genocide because his radical Malthusian views made him believe he was doing the right thing. In Smaug's case, they could take a hint from the power and corruption theme of LoTR and explore the concept of greed in a nuanced way, perhaps by exploring what kind of hole was the dragon trying to fill in his life with all the gold he's hoarded. Or give it a different goal; after all, money is power.

[@DarkSpells87]

@@starkillersneed it's a dragon. He doesn't need complex background. He is greed incarnated based on Fafnir from Norse mythology. Why does todays audience require everything to be explained? Dragon hates dwarves and is obsessed by gold. We don't need to know if his mommy dragon was abusing him as a child or something. And we 500% don't need some political commentary or other things.

[@davidbrinnen]

“I feel thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread.” - the Hobbit.

[@nullForce]

☝The perfect quote for that movie!

[@triton62674]

Reading that line in the book was chilling, such an oddly specific take on the idea of immortality

[@ballybunion9]

Well done, David. 👍

[@anthonygreen6219]

Hahaha haha perfection

[@MalePifko]

You got the second part wrong. It should be "..., like bread scraped over too much butter ".

[@Craftymcstabber]

One criticism I disagree with is smaugs motivations not being complex enough, Tolkien did not expand very much on his motivations either, however the implications in the lore are that he had come down from the north after the dwarves had become so rich they gained his attention, and he just came to murder and pillage and steal because that’s basically just how dragons be, Morgoth created dragons in angband to use in the war against elves and they’re supposed to be intelligent but greedy beyond measure, all that being said I don’t think smaug really needed a backstory beyond what he got, and in fact I felt besides the goofy action sequences he was involved in he was handled quite well, his voice and size were very well represented as well as his cunning and discerning mind, that’s just how I felt

[@geechyguy3441]

In the Hobbit 2 when Thorin meets with Thranduil after he took them prisoner, Thranduil says "I warned your father of what forces his greed will summon" Considering Thranduil fought dragons before he probably knew that too much wealth attracts them

[@melkor5599]

Yeah and at least in the book he left the mountain to hunt. Also stop blameing me, all i wantet was a talking pet lizzard. Im not responsible for Glaurungs offspring.

[@Paremata]

I'm guessing that Smaug is supposed to be a comparison to the Dwarfs especially Thorin who are completely focused on the treasure and the Oakenshield rather than their companionship.

[@Orbzul]

I agree, I do feel that calling Smaug overly simplistic is a bit much. It's like saying the Balrog was bland and uninteresting because "the dwarves woke it up one day so it decided to kill all of them for some reason". I do feel that his motivation in destroying Laketown was better explained in the books, with him being frustrated with Bilbo and the Dwarves' repeated escapes and seeking somewhere to direct his anger, he decided that the people of the town were somehow behind the scheme to invade his mountain and take his treasure and that they had defied him as the "true king under the mountain".

[@listrahtes]

Lets not forget this was a childrens book. It wasnt meant as a complex story like LOTR but a book children can relate. He just needed a big baddie that wasnt too frightening.

[@bode8817]

To be fair the "singing part" is actually a pretty big part in the book, as I remember it.

[@TheVioletBunny]

It is he clearly didn’t read the book

[@fritzmeier3573]

@@TheVioletBunny i agree. The move is very close to the book for the most part.

[@stefankrunic8188]

@@fritzmeier3573 He's not being realistic at all. There were things that were forcefully added in the movies to make them much longer, it's true, but singing, that's part of the story and for me, it was done right. I enjoyed it.

[@FuuuckOffff]

The singing is fine but it IS used as filler. Like we don't need 3 verses and a montage of potwashing at the outset of a trilogy.

[@laurence2424]

The fact that 13, rough warrior dwarfs all have voices of an angle had me floored

[@EricRedbear]

Smaug and his gold: still a better love story than Twilight!

[@kaiju115]

Amen also Smaug was the only good thing in this trilogy

[@danielporter7662]

Lmao!

[@rhett5058]

I glad these jokes haven’t died yet

[@marcusgarcia5089]

But Luffy and Boa is the greatest of all time.

[@adityabhalekar3506]

@@kaiju115 no

[@lausdeo4944]

I disagree with his point on Smaug. I thought he was rendered perfectly as described in the book. Dragons are, at their heart, often motivated by an animalistic greed for gold (hence lust for gold is described as "dragon fever"). I also enjoyed how he was somewhat hypnotic with his words and speeches, just like Glaurung against Túrin in the Silmarillion.

[@nicholasconder4703]

I had no issues with how Smaug and the dwarves were portrayed. That was well done. The explanation for changing the black arrow from a regular arrow to a large crossbow bolt made sense. It was all the other excessive padding that ruined the movies - the extended chase scenes, the dwarf-elf romance, the prolonged battle scenes containing impossible stunts and combat action. Cutting these down to manageable lengths would have gone a long way to making these movies a memorable experience, rather than a somewhat tiresome marathon.

[@Yesindeed-v5m]

I agree, Drinker doesn't get it.

[@wenzelfelgentreu5988]

I think so too. Dragons themselves are not humanlike creatures with complex motivations and have to have reasons to destroy an entire town. Their love for Gold drives them and, because of their immense strenght, they see everything that stands against them as just a nuicance. I also liked how in the book Smaug didnt have scales on his Stomach, but penetrable Skin, that was covered up by the gems he had been lying on for a century. Drives home his Greed and directly gives him a good weakness, normally a dragons share.

[@Silux_Ray]

Not disagreeing with your point, but that’s mainly western dragons

[@vrolijk9865]

@@nicholasconder4703 basically comes down to making 2 movies instead of 3. Part 1 should have ended at the barrel sequence and part 2 onwards to the final battle

[@robertnoxon9246]

In defense of the songs, that's Tolkein. He wrote in a lot of poems in the book. They turned them into songs, same difference.

[@reek4062]

Really odd to criticize that.

[@jonsolo32]

The action sequences destroyed the movie for me. Like they had to outdo the LotR trilogy.... it was ridiculously overdone.

[@gerard2383]

also most of the fan service just made me hate this more. It felt unnecessary

[@randomthings1293]

For me, it was the horrible, artificial and lore-shattering Elf-Dwarf romance

[@independentthought3390]

That is why I think the first movie is actually pretty good. It was goofy, yes, but it had far less action sequences than the other two. The second movie was a disappointment, and the third movie was just horrible on every level.

[@spacejunk2186]

The barrel scene encapsulates the whole problem of the action scenes in this trilogy.

[@tacticalchunder1207]

Legolas was totally unnecessary and probably the worst part of the films. His action scenes were ridiculous.

[@Dr.McMuffin]

The only disagreement I have is that Bilbo DOES have an Arc, in the beginning he is terrified of everything, by the end he is getting down in the melee, putting himself in huge amounts of danger in an attempt to save his friends. The line where he ALMOST confesses to Gandalf that he found the one ring, but then says "I found my courage" isn't really a lie, he DID find that through the adventure. Its like... The point of The Hobbit.

[@sarov7658]

Dude actually seen ppl dying whirl it's full plot armor and no stacks for last two parts of lotr

[@Hannah-fe4yf]

That’s true, he was afraid of everything to begin with, in the end he also became very afraid for and of Thorin as he became sick with greed, so he was willing to risk the anger of thorin in order to save him from destroying himself. An act of true friendship and care that really does mean something.

[@xminusone1]

That's true. That's the whole point of the story to begin with. It's about "learing from your expériences" and "don't be too afraid of trying new things".

[@xminusone1]

​@@Hannah-fe4yf Yeah I forgot about that part. And what you said is very true.

[@FuuuckOffff]

The arc doesn't end in him resembling the character of Bilbo in LotR, however. He is like a totally different character and lacks the personality of the actual character of Bilbo: rebellious, hedonistic, cantankerous, mischevious, etc. Other than becoming brave, there's no real character transformation.

[@dook-d3n]

There are fan recuts that makes this a 3h movie. "There And Back Again, A Hobbit's Tale Recut by David Killstein" It's called. It follows the books more closely and removes all filler. Movie gets pretty good then, there is good shit here just the greed stretching it out to 3 movies, and the message of the movie is greed is bad xD.

[@ZS-bg7jo]

While i was typing my reply. Lol

[@earlofdoncaster5018]

Got a link for Killstein's movie?

[@jonbaxter2254]

A polished turd is still shit

[@TvboxFinnan]

Does it remove Legolas, Tauriel and shit?

[@schlepedits7486]

it would still be shit. You need the scene with the trolls and you can never fix that goofy bullshit

[@wolftal1178]

I agree with everything you said, except for Bilbo and Smaug. The Dragon, although I admit not a very complex character was actually a very faithfully adapted from the book, because that’s what the professor wrote. He wasn’t so much intelligent with ambition he was mostly just driven by his own desires. A villain can be powerful, but doesn’t have to be motivated by grand plans of conquest. as for Bilbo, well that again is very much how the professor wrote him. He did learn a lot more self-confidence, and when he went home, he more or less carried on his happy life.

[@sillyking1991]

well, carried on with his life with some minor resentment of some cousins that he believed stole some of his silverware....damned sacksville-baggins'

[@RAWxxx07]

Agreed. I think they really got Smaug and Thranduil right.

[@AaronAaron247]

Best description I’ve heard about this is “The Hobbit feels like having your appetizer after you already had the main course.”

[@DmytroBogdan]

They came in wrong order, that is true.

[@georgemorley1029]

One plate of prawn cocktail is nice. Three plates of prawn cocktail will make you sick. Three plates of prawn cocktail advertised as three plates of prawn cocktail is fair enough. But three plates of prawn cocktail advertised as a three course meal will make you angry. And sick. And so it’s no wonder that these films make me angry and sick. EDIT - these were BIG plates of prawn cocktail btw.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

in this analogy, id rather say that LOTR is like a 3 course meal in a good italian restaurant and the hobbit is the mars bar thats been stuck in your jacket pocket for 3 years. its stale and after you take one bite, immediate regret follows.

[@dws6x292]

Nah. For me the trilogy is a pretty good appetizer to the three course meal of LOTR.

[@caronstout354]

And the Rings of Power was the dessert that looked good on the menu but was substandard when it hit the table...

[@Ett.Gammalt.Bergtroll]

Honestly, Smaug being a rather shallow and simple villain I can forgive. He was never really meant to be anything but a foul monster whose greed and lust for gold mirrored the worst aspects of Dwarfkind.

[@jonbaxter2254]

I liked Smaug. He was a true evil, one that is just a force of nature.

[@RRTNZ]

Yeah, his motivations in the book are not very complex, but even shallow villains can be played skillfully- here Cumberbatch just hams it up, helped by slightly goofy cgi - IMHO the most menacing movie Dragon ever is still Vermithrax, from Dragonslayer (1981), a combination of giant puppetry and stop motion animation, but that dragon is nasty and scary despite never speaking. Cheers.

[@journeysmt4484]

Right, the Dragon Sickness. He could have been at least intimidating, but the unrealistic action, and the dumb shit every 5 seconds meant you just could not take him seriously enough for that to happen. The Hobbit should ae been its own thing, really. No expectation to be like LOTR. IT could have been awesome in a different way.

[@throwbackthursday680]

I felt like the real villain in the first one was Thorins grandfather or something because of the corruption he allowed get to him. But I mean that was probably what I liked most.

[@bruhman1221]

Smaug is cool. Best part of these movies

[@jamesmorris4258]

Jackson was thrown into the Hobbit last second and was told to make three films... he had years to prep LOTR, and literally months for The Hobbit (with most of the prep already completed by people who had a very different vision). Not an easy task.

[@flatline42]

By "other people" we mean Guillermo del Toro whose vision of a kind of fever dream/Pan's Labyrinth Hobbit I'd have been down with. The studios decided they wanted more Lord of the Rings instead and canned him.

[@brucelaborin2124]

@@flatline42 Yes, they fucking did. Truthfully, if Guillermo had been able to do it, it might've felt closer in tone to the LOTR. But of course the studio did their usual stupidness when they remembered all the dollars they have made on the LOTR. Peter Jackson could only stem the loss of either having someone heading up the series that he DIDN'T want as director, or do the series himself, and suffer sleeplessness again, and give some of what the studio wanted while trying to maintain tone. It was an impossible task for him, when everything he did up to that point was in the line of duty as producer.

[@filipgasic2642]

Don't use that shitty excuse. You know he didn't have to accept that contract?? Or imagine this, the studio picking one good director and sticking with him and giving him time to do his job??

[@astronomical7962]

@@filipgasic2642 still a very valid excuse

[@yurkafrankvel966]

I still liked the movies read the books to and to be honest they are good, yes, not LOTR but they are still good. And by todays standrds they are a Master piece compared to rings of power

[@wannaloginnow]

Thank you sir for mentioning that higher frame rates make movies not look like movies anymore! A lot of times people pretend they don’t see/notice it! I think it’s also called “soap opera effect”. A lot of TVs have an option that causes a similar effect. Often called something like “motion plus” or some nonsense! I hate it!

[@paulcanning4702]

I saw the 2nd Hobbit movie in HFR, never again as it looked awful.Made sure I saw Battle of the 5 Armies in regular free rate

[@MattiusW]

Agreed, but I loved Martin Freeman as Bilbo. His scenes were always the strongest and key scenes from the book, which he and they nailed. Too much filler though obviously. Need a director's cut for a single 3 hour movie. Would definitely be better.

[@martincaspary-smith1133]

There are many fan edits that cut out most unnecessary filler scenes and have it focus on Bilbo and his relationship with dwarves.

[@Kaliosthesecond]

Look at m4 edit or mapple eddit

[@dougr.2245]

I like Martin Freeman's Bilbo too, but it's hard for good acting to make up for a bad script.

[@Spazza42]

Martin Freeman only ever plays Martin Freeman.

[@Apoch86]

@@Kaliosthesecond awesome thank you for pointing these out!

[@ImaginaryCyborg]

Boromir's death was one of those movie scenes that breaks my heart to this day. It was just so well done. The man was turned into a pincushion, and still manage to focus the last ounces of his remaining strength to kill a few Uruks, redeem himself in the process, and hold out until Aragorn relieved him of his duty. I wish my death would be half as honorable as his.

[@Poet482]

It's best that he died the way he did or he just may have just ended up stealing the ring and taking off. He got to die with his legacy preserved. Any longer and there likely wouldn't have been much of that man that remained.

[@chatyxd6078]

Boromir is possibly my favorite character in LOTR because he's relatable and flawed. Out of the fellowship Boromir is the most human, he shows how men can be corrupted by power and turned from their goals. But he also redeems himself, Boromir is able to die a hero by overcoming his desires. Welp that's all I have to say, have a nice day👍

[@sgt.thundercok4704]

Well framed.

[@anthony8041]

@@chatyxd6078 Since Aragorn's bloodline is mixed with elvish, Boromir is the only actual human in the company,

[@chatyxd6078]

@@anthony8041 well who would've thought that the most human character is the most human😎

[@Radhaugo108]

The Second Movie ending with Smaug flying out of the Lonely Mountain only to be killed in the first 5 minutes of the Third Movie was a complete waste.

[@Stresslvls99]

Smaug got Snoke'd.

[@Endru85x]

Smaug was inspiration for Dark Raiden in New Timeline of Mortal Kombat games :).

[@briankasnick4403]

I missed the first 5 minutes cuz i got to the theater late. I missed it completely. Like wtf

[@cheeseburger12]

@@Stresslvls99 shouldn't it be the other way around? Ha.

[@danielmeeker7587]

Well, if they had made the hobbit into a single movie, they probably would have had to shorten it even more to fit in all the other events of the book. + It really was that abrupt in the book, in a purposeful way that would set up the plot twist of the battle of the five armies.

[@BlastedRodent]

I only ever watched the first of these films, because I was so put off by the use of CGI. The LotR trilogy made its world look truly real and lived in with a thoughtful blend of CGI and practical effects, and seeing that thrown away in favor of the same unreal video game look every other movie today goes for hurt my heart.

[@cameronmnelson]

On the other hand, here were some genuinely great things to come from The Hobbit Trilogy: 1. The Dwarves Song (musical gold) 2. Gollum (every scene he was in) 3. Smaug (what little we had of him) 4. Bilbo (Martin Freeman was perfect) 5. The scene where Bilbo and Gandolf sit together in silence after the battle and Gandolf smokes a pipe (much under appreciated scene)

[@GunnarLindow]

Agreed!

[@mohamedesfan5817]

The ending too. One of the best.

[@arcotroll8530]

*Gan-DALF*

[@Beowulf_93]

But don't forget the best scene of all, wich Gandalf offers his green magic tabacco for the other wizard.

[@tat2urface1]

@@Beowulf_93 ​dur de dur, yep, that's the cumulation of meaning in this world or Middle Earth, the very epitomy of substance, the depth and grandeur of all that is right that define the meaning of life is that someone smoked pot. I cannot imagine the lack of anything resembling deep mature thought or a rational set of priorities coming from a mind like this. So you smoke a plant, your trophy for never growing out of a high school mentality and your deep need for validation of how cool you are by telling others about it is in the mail. People smoke shit, it's not impressive and it's even less impressive to talk about it and it's downright embarrassing to bring it up to others as talking points for a fucking movie. Go watch Dude where's my car, leave the heavy lifting to someone else. And incidentally, it's "offers his green magic tobacco* to** the other wizard."

[@NihilisticCynic]

I hated how un-dwarfy the dwarves were. Especially the “cute/hot” ones. And the romance with the elf. WE HATES IT, PRECIOUS

[@me8751]

Exactly! Thorin and the loverboy didn't even look like dwarves.

[@igorivanov299]

Women dwarves were supposed to look like their male counterparts, full beards and all, as mentioned in the original LOTR trilogy. Why then lover boy dwarf had barley any stubble. Was he an inferior male dwarf? Even the women dwarves have more testosterone then he does.

[@LewisChristisonVids]

You could tell they were trying to recapture the young heartthrob Orlando Bloom with them, and tried to make Thorin Aragorn 2.0 on top of that.

[@kellerblair2952]

@@LewisChristisonVids I mean technically he is the young king driven from his homeland set to reclaim the throne that's the book

[@newwavepop]

it always bothered me, because 3/4s of the dwarves looked like court jester caricatures of dwarves, and the other 4th just looked like rugged adventurer humans.

[@Aerophina]

I thought the actor for Bilbo did good, the scared, quiet type is good for portraying a hobbit out of his place and thrust into a larger situation.

[@circedelune]

He wasn’t Bilbo. Bilbo was whimsical, lovable, with a heart and courage that made his size almost irrelevant. He was not the down-trodden Everyman that this dude plays in every single role he has ever played. Bilbo is special. Played to perfection by Ian Holmes in TLOTR, but much too briefly. He has a wide-eyed, child-like excitement. I think the Hobbit could have been fun with the right Bilbo and the right Thorin, even with all the other nonsense they put in there.

[@tonyfandango8182]

@@circedelune Martin Freeman is not the issue with the Hobbit lmao, to say the he plays an “everyman” in everything he’s ever done shows you really haven’t seen much of his work.

[@circedelune]

@@tonyfandango8182 to be honest, I haven’t seen that much with him in it, and I’m not really interested. He wasn’t the only problem with The Hobbit, by far. I’m just saying that a better Bilbo could have made these movies at least watchable.

[@tonyfandango8182]

@@circedelune I see what you’re saying, I do however think it wasn’t just a casting issue and Bilbo was written to be skittish, as opposed to adventurous like in the books. I think Martin Freeman could have done a better job with a better script and better direction.

[@circedelune]

@@tonyfandango8182 it’s possible.

[@martingeerars9640]

This is one of those movies I wish they'd do a special reduced cut rather than a special extended cut. Two movies or a long single movie

[@ThePartyPrimate]

To be fair, Smaug was a badass, and his scene with Bilbo is great. Too bad he was built up so much only to die 5 mins into the third movie.

[@apocryphicdeath]

I found it jarring to end the 2nd movie at the climax and start the third with it only the end it in the first 5 minutes. One wonders why they made that decision. Did they think people wouldn't come back for the 3rd movie if Smaug was dead?

[@samescourt3801]

Honestly my favorite part about the whole trilogy. Cumberbatch killed it and it really did suck that he barely got any screen time

[@alexrennison8070]

Yeah, Smaug was great.

[@eddielong8663]

Reminded me of cliffhanger endings in many of those old TV shows. 90% of time, the resolve in the following episode would be anticlimactic.

[@bodavidson2804]

Would have made so much more sense to have Smaug killed at the end of movie 2. Then start 3 with the Lake Town refugees and everyone gathering to claim the gold.

[@XxGlaciersOfIcexX]

After over 16 minutes of ripping this trilogy to shreds, and rightfully so, the very last thing you said will probably be true; the hobbit will still be better than whatever amazon decides to give us

[@Jointknight]

Yea this is the pathetic truth.

[@cmasonw]

The Amazon series will make The Hobbit trilogy look like a masterpiece to rival LOTR.

[@owyemen9367]

So like star wars all over again

[@Сайтамен]

@@owyemen9367 Prequel trilogy is way better than Hobbit and original trilogy isn't as good as LOTR.

[@owyemen9367]

@@Сайтамен balanced

[@jetuber]

The Hobbit Trilogy is exactly like Lucas's prequel trilogy: a work that was disappointing when it came out but looks better as time goes on, simply because what has come after it (Amazon's desecration of Tolkien, like Disney's desecration of Star Wars) has been so maliciously awful that it has made it shine by comparison. It's all relative.

[@bionicleanime]

This trilogy is exactly what Tolkin feared would happen when he said Hollywood will butcher his work.

[@BaronVonBielski]

What’s funny is the same director who did the lord of the rings books justice, screwed up the hobbit.

[@koichidignitythief7429]

@@BaronVonBielski Except A. Guillermo Del Toro was the Original Director and a lot of the unnecessary changes were his ideas B. Jackson wanted it to just be one movie or a 2-parter at best C. It was still the studio's idea to keep and make a lot of these changes to the script and stretch it out to a trilogy.

[@DragonSlayerCommentariesHQ]

This is a classic case of studios getting too involved and making things worse. It's funny how video games do Tolkien's work justice more.

[@RS-vz5gc]

@@BaronVonBielski because he had an entirely different production studio and due to the fact that Warner Bros took over instead of New Line Cinema and all that company makes is cartoons.

[@HIPEOPLE1887]

@@HenryAvery-qg1hd those two games are even worse from a lore standpoint. Not denying that they’re good games, but Tolkien would probably not like those games

[@williamking2782]

In Peter Jackson's defense, he didn't want to direct this. He was told that if he didn't they'd get someone else who would. Perhaps he could have told them to stuff it and hire a lesser replacement, but I give him props for believing that he had a stake in the making of Middle Earth and would rather blame fall on him then taking the easy route to have the movies be blamed on someone else.

[@EnvoyOfFabulousness]

I think it was also that if he didn't direct it they weren't going to film it in New Zealand. And Jackson felt like that would be a massive insult to the people in New Zealand who helped with the first trilogy, so he took it on kind of as a favor for them.

[@teddkave327]

Actually, someone else WAS set to direct, Guillermo Del Toro (with Peter Jackson producing). Del Toro spent over a year during pre-production on the film and before principal photography was set to begin, he left. I don't know if he quit (as the press releases would say) or if he was fired. After that, there was no time to look for another director so Peter Jackson had to step in and take over.

[@stanlee5465]

Yep, and they had the movie rights, and the property was essentially guaranteed to make money, it was really just a question of how big a hit they could produce... I mean someone was going to make the movie(s), so they might as well have been done by Peter Jackson!

[@jamesrogers1554]

It's even more complex than that though. They had originally hired Guillermo del Toro to direct and he had been working on it in various aspects for years. However he finally bailed when they kept increasing the number of films they wanted from the 300pg book. They then turned to Jackson, begging him to come back and sent a dump truck of $$$ to his house. But they also gave him almost no pre-production time and threw out most of del Toro's work. As such Jackson had little time to plan and with each movie he fell further and further behind. A making of documentary I saw showed that by the third movie he had to completely abandon story boarding and had resorted to taking extra long lunch breaks where he would literally spend time setting up elements and camera shots for the scene that they were shooting that afternoon. It said that at the end he was pulling 18-20hr days just to get the film finished by the studio's intractable timeline.

[@Sigma0283]

He used The Hobbit and some of The Silmarillion novels in order to make this trilogy.

[@simoncobian2816]

The only thing I disagree on is Smaug I did enjoy his presentation on screen. He could have been the highlight of one good film.

[@bigbadwulfen]

Smaugs motives were represented as in the book. Loving a hoard of treasure more than anything else, wanton killing. Not much to expand upon there really.

[@jeffreygiven4713]

Agreed. It was compelling... and I think faithful to the original source material.

[@OurBlackFriend]

I kinda liked the singing lol. The book had a lot of songs in it so that actually felt like a nice addition.

[@MrChickennugget360]

I liked the Rankin and Bass version of Smaug because he comes off as uninterested. Smaug should be like an aged rock-star who has had a long life of drugs, sex and rock and roll. He has vast hoarded wealth can do what he wants but is bored of life and its hard to get him up when he is napping. but he is also very egotistical. He does not seem to care about Bilbo as anything more than a minor bit of entertainment until he starts to get angry over his theft.

[@videonaterAD]

Looking at other dragons in fiction, yeah that's basically what they do. Money and chilling. You usually don't see them go attacking people unless it's something like theyre summoned to obey by some magic, or they need to in order to survive. Also some dragons eat treasure to survive so that's always possible. He could also hibernate for long periods of time who knows

[@AlphaQHard]

The eagles arent really a cab service. They help Gandalf out from time to time, but they dont serve him. Its like a friend doing you a favor and dropping you off along their route to work; you’ll get closer to your destination but you cant really expect him to inconvenience himself just to drive you all the way because its easier for you.

[@noamz9527]

Well, if u were in danger of getting attacked and maybe killed on your way to work I assume your friends would have driven you all the way.

[@justanothergunnerd8128]

Yes, the eagles are their own race and do as they want, whenever they want. They are conscious, intelligent beings just the same as Smaug or Beorn. They tolerate humans and don't eat them, even though they could. They are literally and figuratively above the drama of Middle Earth - far from a taxi service.

[@StrongDreamsWaitHere]

The Eagles are the messengers of Manwe, who is more or less the “archangel” in charge of the other angels (the Valar) who supervise Middle-Earth. For complicated reasons, the Valar don’t understand the destiny of humans or dwarves and are reluctant to interfere in the matter of Sauron and the ring. Whenever the Eagles show up, it’s the Valar giving events a nudge in the direction they think, but aren’t certain, they are meant to go.

[@matildastanford7019]

Yes. Drinker was being way too cynical and missed the mark with this one. The sheer ammount of prey a massive bird of prey that size would have to consume to maintain their metabolism would limit how long and far they could assist Gandalf & co. Wonder if orc was back on the menu for those birds.

[@seagullskunk]

The main problem with the eagles was that the movies made them out to be extremly powerful which they just weren't. The reason why they didnt do the "cab service" in the book was because they were afraid of getting to close to any humans who might shoot arrows at them. Let that sink in and then compare it to the scene where they single handed and as it seems untouchably dismantle borgs army in the last part of the movies. Yes they were part of the battle of the five armys however it wasn't like the battle was won the moment they showed up the like its portrayed on screen.

[@malcolm_in_the_middle]

The Hobbit is not "basically" a children's book: it is explicitly a children's book.

[@winstonasmith9398]

It's specifically Tolkien's children's book.

[@adamrawn2063]

Each chapter is designed as a bedtime story, which is why it is so episodic. In my opinion, the 70s animated version is better than the Jackson version, even with the 70s Folk soundtrack

[@jorgeluna6577]

A nice easy to follow adventure narrated in a more simpler and linear way very enjoyable but those movies sucks balls.

[@nurgle333]

@@adamrawn2063 the soundtrack was awesome!

[@Bateluer]

Kinda brings to light how far modern children's books have fallen in comparison. I remember reading The Hobbit in the third grade. I'm not entirely convinced today's third graders are literate.

[@wipje41]

Not even a mention of the horrible CGI? LoTR looks so much fresher.

[@jack9315]

I watched Lotr a couple months ago and it ages so well, even by today's standards it's still pretty good imo

[@TheLevitatingFleem]

The very few & very small CGI flaws can be seen better in the 4k remaster, but like I said, they are few & far between. And are usually things out in the distance or weird shadowing. Still better CG than 95% of modern movies

[@thedeviousduck8027]

Really for the early 2000s the CGI was incredible. It was used lightly enough that it wasn’t distracting and the post processing really sells it

[@urbanmyths95]

well like the original jurassic park lotr used a metric fuckton of practical effect

[@bazezikov15]

Video game cutscenes

[@Caz1242]

That romance side story was so unbelievable and contrived and apparently he sparked her interest by making some vulgar reference to his junk, after that she was hooked 🙄🤢

[@Yolo_Swagins]

Well elves in Middlearth are immortal by age, so she can be like 500 years old, by that time youl probably already f*ck anything, so one dwarf is nothing but amusement :D

[@JMoney_3000]

@@Yolo_Swagins Good point I'll admit LOL XD

[@asmahasmalaria8596]

You know why that was? Because originally there was no love story, but the studio said "Nah, we need a romance subplot"

[@seanmoran6510]

@@JMoney_3000 It’s a shit point and highlights the shallow thought process behind it.

[@hunkleberrymilldewbeespark3851]

@@asmahasmalaria8596 because no movie is ever complete without a love triangle... Something the actress playing Tauriel explicitly told the writers she wanted no part in... Yet err we are, and the most u remarkable romance with no point or payoff in the history of big budget films...

[@creechrfeechr8094]

I recently discovered the wonderful world of fanedits, and I would absolutely recommend the M4 Book Edition of this film. Stays faithful to the book, makes you care about the dwarves and keeps Bilbo centre stage, as it should. Amazing work.

[@WolfintheMeadow]

In the book, Bilbo does have a proper arc. He starts as somebody happy to sit at home doing nothing, afraid of the larger world, and who lets people walk all over him. But by the end, he's brave, willing to face any odds to save his friends, and who in the end is willing to stand firm againt anything - even his friends' hatred in order to save them. After the events of The Hobbit, he goes on to become an adventurer. And the book does actually do an ok job of giving all the Dwarves some development. But this should never have been three films, everything they added was garbage.

[@eamonnholland5343]

In the movies, too, you can see hints of what could be PTSD in Bilbo at the end, or at least the heavy toll on him of losing some of his friends. In full disagreement with Drinker on this one, I think Martin Freeman did an awesome job as Bilbo.

[@politicallycorrectredskin796]

Well, he isn't really a combat character anyway. More a sort of diplomat who gets bonked on the head when the fighting starts. Very hard to shoot this movie according to the book just because of that. Super exciting fight scene incoming, PoV character gets clubbed and wakes up afterwards so we can't show you any of it! Anyway, not everything added was garbage. The Council and the stuff with Sauron happened at this time and is why Gandalf left the dwarves. It just wasn't in the Hobbit, but in LotR appendices. And since Radagast was the person in Middle Earth who lived closest to Dol Guldur it made sense that he went to warn Gandalf. It's not all wonderfully done, but let's not pretend it wasn't give some thought or that it was all trash either.

[@92bagder]

Imagine if Del Torro wasnt rob of directing the movie.

[@AdderTude]

The other thing was that Peter Jackson clearly missed the change in tone. The Hobbit was always written in the style of a children's story (as the Drinker said), not the more serious, darker tone of The Lord of the Rings. The story would've been better served in two parts (a duology rather than a trilogy).

[@Sifer2]

I think the films actually handled Bilbo's arc reasonably well. But the whole thing could have been done in single 4 hour extended cut film or 2 films. Stretching it into 3 ruined it with entirely too much fanfiction filler.

[@Matt-bg5wg]

I rewatch LOTR extended edition at least once a year. It’s the pinnacle of epic fantasy and I always enjoy it. I watched The Hobbit trilogy once, regretted it, and have never watched it again. I did like Smaug though, despite his screen time.

[@Joawlisdoingfine]

Yeah... He felt like a proper dragon and he died like a punk

[@funkyfiss]

Smaug was very well done. I appreciated that.

[@hunterhunter5906]

Compare Smaug with the dragon in Witcher, which is quite possibly the cheesiest dragon I've ever seen.

[@thatonetitan8456]

@Charisma Girl I believe they're in talks for a.. TV show? Or another trilogy? About morgoth and the first elves. If that ever happens, you'll get to see a real dragon. Smaug is literally a baby.. In morgoths underground fort, he made the original orcs, an army of balrogs, and grew the father of all dragons.

[@jbrisby]

You have nice manners for a thief and a liar.

[@ladylacrimal8447]

As Bilbo said once, the Hobbit was like too little butter spread over too much bread. Thin and burnt out.

[@RRTNZ]

Nice analogy !

[@jonbaxter2254]

I still like the puddle of piss metaphor.

[@Mopsey]

Doesn't even make sense, bread isn't generally burnt.

[@Enzo-gw7zf]

You good sir win the internet today

[@ladylacrimal8447]

Holy Smaug shit, the Drinker approves me! Best Friday ever!

[@Barbara_J_K]

I just watched m4 book edit of these movies (fan edit). The trilogy cut down to a 4 hour movie and keeping to the book as much as possible. It's really well done. Going to be my go to when I do a Lord of the Rings rewatch, will start with the single Hobbit movie now. It should never have been made into 3 long movies, so much crap is cut with this edit makes it so much better. And I love Bilbo!

[@13thxenos]

Where can I watch such an edit?

[@coreydb3549]

Doctor Watson runs around with sword waving midgets, gets chased by dogs, occasionally helped by a hippy, and gets “gold” addicted Sherlock Holmes killed before creating a five way turf war between rival gangs

[@FourOf92000]

get Edgar Wright on this

[@baileylanore]

Now I want to watch this

[@coreydb3549]

@@baileylanore it sounds better than it really is

[@hunterhunter5906]

Epic synopsis.

[@coreydb3549]

@@baileylanore May I strongly recommend ‘Time Bandits’ in that case. Cameos by Sean Connery, assorted Monty Python actors and Ian Holm

[@kyle857]

Basically, they took a short children's book and tried to stretch it into a three part epic like LOTR. Like butter stretched over too much bread.

[@goodputin4324]

No, like butter spread thin over a loaf of bread

[@ImaginaryCyborg]

I see what you did there.

[@jasonnation6615]

you didn't read all of his literature did you?

[@MiaogisTeas]

@Charisma Girl Female dwarfs? …Why?

[@thetalkingdummy9108]

It could have been a 5 or 4 hour movie, but still very good films

[@Nobullshit-47]

Legolas running on a collapsing bridge is a perfect metaphor for literally the entire thing.

[@jillreyerma7592]

How did they expect that to make sense? Because he can walk on top of snow? Yeah elves are light footed, but I don't think they can slow down time or push themselves off of rapidly falling objects. But yeah, pushing off of a rapidly falling object doomed to plummet does sum up the whole thing pretty great.

[@winterval5764]

lol

[@estoguy]

He ran across a collapsing bridge? "I have no memory of this place." 😉

[@TSPH1992]

That was the gayest scene in the film

[@knox7945]

When I saw that scene, I imagined him hopping off of paratroopas from Mario and getting a 1 up at the end.

[@garymcderp1146]

The Hobbit trilogy sure seems a lot better now since the Rings of Power came out. In fact I watched it again (with extended versions) after suffering through the abomination that was the Rings of Power, and while it’s not the original trilogy it’s still a Peter Jackson film that I’ve grown fond of.

[@mccor002]

The Misty Mountain song in this movie is fucking glorious though. It's one of my favorite parts of the series. No joke

[@skateman7151]

Led Zeppelin?

[@Irregular_John]

Skate man That would be Misty Mountain Hop.

[@razorofwolvendom2208]

Fire by Ed Sheeran too, that song is the best way to describe Bilbo, Gandalf and the Dwarfs.

[@jamesrazor9048]

It was good, but with 8 hours to kill they should have done the whole thing

[@anam00090]

first film in general has many nice moments. I genuinely can't say this about the last film, where half of the storylines only get closure if you see the extended version, and even then it's subpar -_- Have seen multiple fan-edits that completely remove Azog, Kili-Tauriel's romance or that ridiculous shot of Smaug covered with liquid gold like a glorified Ferrero Rocher, but the final battle is so abysmal, you just can't edit around the source material to make it better...

[@tp6498]

The Hobbit was the first book I ever read as a child back in the mid 70's not as a homework assignment or a school project, but for my own fun and enjoyment. That opening sentence.."In a hole, in the ground, there lived a Hobbit." took me firmly in its grip and refused to let me go, I was hooked, a Tolkien fan for life. Nothing I have read since has captured my imagination or transported me magically through my minds eye to a more inviting yet foreboding, mysterious and at times dangerous place like JRR Tolkiens Middle Earth did. And despite it being a very public world to visit, open to anyone willing to crack open the Hobbits cover, Middle earth became my very own special, private, personal world to escape to. I looked forward to each evening where I could lose myself in page after page, exploring right along with Gandalf, Bilbo and the dwarves. Their adventures were my adventures, and I remember each night, after completing a chapter or two, i would lay there wondering what tomorrow night's adventures would bring, and pray that my fellow adventurers in Middle Earth would survive the night while I abandoned them for the safety of my bed and slept. I know these sentiments must sound absolutely foolish to the young people of today who have far more avenues of entertainment and escapism available to them now, in this blurring age of technology, than I had as a child of 8 or 9 back in the 70's. But you know what, I feel like it's they who have missed out, not I. To relay a quote from Bilbo Baggins..“It’s a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door,” “You step into the Road, and if you don’t keep your feet, there is no telling where you might be swept off to.”. That it what the Hobbit and the LOTR trilogy have meant for me, Peter Jackson's vision aside. Thanks.

[@TheMountainBeyondTheWoods]

Ten years after you but that's my story as well.

[@DorianApryl]

Was my first book as well in the early 90's - my mother started reading it to me as a bedtime story, and had given up somewhere around the goblin cave/Gollum part (went way over her head lol). So I picked it up and continued reading on my own. I was 5 y/o at the time, took me (probably) weeks to finish it, but that pretty much imprinted Middle Earth into my DNA. I had watched Rankin/Bass animated adaptations, and Ralph Bakshi's LOTR on repeat growing up, then Jackson's trilogy coincided with my last years of high school. I had even refrained from watching Return of the King until after my exams, so I could have it as this epic reward for graduating. Such a shame though - you grow up with these visions of grand adventures only to find out that there's nothing else left to explore. Tolkien, for all the issues he'd had with industrialization, would have especially hated this GPS-tracked, fully-mapped, digital web-covered planet to no end and beyond.

[@angelat7957]

What a beautiful read your comment is! It perfectly captures the magic sense of wonder many of us felt when we first read The Hobbit. And then went on to read the trilogy and discovered a whole new world. I love Bilbo Baggins and I love going on an adventure with him every single time. Wishing you all the best, fellow LOTR fan!

[@annafife9094]

NZer here. Jackson wanted Guillermo del Torro to make it (the director of Pan's Labyrinth. ) Del Torro was in, wrote the screen play, began pre- production in NZ, then Warner Bros, saw the script and demanded heaps of changes. Del Torro dropped out. Warner Bros said if Jackson didn't make it, they would move production to another country. Jackson did not want to do it, but he also didn't want to hurt the tiny NZ film industry that needed this gig. So he agreed. After that Warner Bros had him where they wanted him and demanded script change after script change, including a love triangle, bringing back Aragorn (Viggo said eff off) and loads of call backs to LOTR. Imagine the film we might have had if del Torro had made it. He was the perfect choice for this whimsical magical little tale. The whole bloated mess of The Hobbit is just sad.

[@berthein5476]

not just that, in the BHTS, jackson literally sais he had no script for most of it, and was like writing it and scene direction in lunch breaks and such. he like said "i was only able to do it beacuse i had the expereince. i dont think anyone without expereince would have managed to make this happen " and like yeah. as fucked up and bad as the movies are, they were literally build without preproduction, scouting, a script and any planing, and made as they went along

[@Zerox_Z21]

Yeah would be nice if Drinker had called out Warner Bros for being absolute pricks. They also bullied the NZ government into changing work laws just for them. Pricks.

[@Falf_lw]

an absolute waste of a good story

[@conserva-chan2735]

Everyone now: "Perhaps I judged you too harshly".

[@Casutama]

I mostly agree with you, but when it comes to the singing, I'm really glad that that's in the films. The songs were a huge part of the book and I felt keeping that in was actually really lovely. And I don't necessarily think that it has no place in a film - it's world-building and character-establishing to show the dwarves have a love of singing. And it is canon. (I'm totally with you on the rest though)

[@AlistairMaxwell77]

i liked the singing

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Yeah, I was actually a little disappointed that they didn't adapt more of the song in the original trilogy. I would have loved to hear "The song of Durin".

[@thereddhare]

It's clear that he is comparing the Hobbit trilogy 1:1 with LotR which is silly. The Hobbit is a children's novel while LotR is a young adult novel. So The Hobbit (the book) has more things targeted at children--songs, jolly characters, cheesy dialogue. The trilogy actually kept a lot of that. If you actually watch it with the idea it's a children's movie no different than The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe a lot of the movie makes more sense. The trilogy would have worked better if it had been advertised as being kid-targeted. Instead execs used the obvious nostalgia bait to try and get LotR fans into seats when the two books are completely different in tone.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

@@thereddhare the sad thing is that even if the movies were true to the book people would have hated them for not being like LOTR. I have accepted long ago that no matter what the movies or movie would have been hated, simply because it came out after LOTR.

[@PsPmoddedOUT]

@@valentinkambushev4968 Is it wrong to critic something is rightfully garbage? Hes right about a lot of what he says. The movies are not good, and The rings of power will make the hobbits trilogy look great when that hot garbage comes out

[@herodotus6235]

“A politician who’s only there because the people are too dumb to get rid of him” - sorry mate, that sounds like real life.

[@sgt.lincolnosiris5028]

Creepy stealy uncle Joe?

[@TehWinnerz]

@@sgt.lincolnosiris5028 no.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

It's 100% real life.

[@GawainSSB]

@@sgt.lincolnosiris5028 Or Pelosi. Or Cortez. Or...

[@illerac84]

@@sgt.lincolnosiris5028 Nah

[@me8751]

I've never understood why the dwarf leader and the "relationship dwarf" didn't even look like dwarves. They didn't have any dwarf characteristics. They seemed taller and more human-like than the other dwarves. And they seemed to be the only 2 to get any real screen time. Such wasted potential.

[@eamonnholland5343]

From the making-of content: They originally intended the dwarves to have more facial make-up like Gimli in TLotR but gradually pulled it back on most of the dwarves, with Thorin, Fili, and Kili being done the most. The explanation for Thorin's short beard was that he intentionally kept it short to honor the dwarves who lost their beards from dragon fire in the assault on Erebor by Smaug. In reality, it was probably to bring out the actor's face more. As for Fili and Kili, it was hand waved away as them being young. They also wanted to make Kili more attractive, so as to make the love triangle with Tauriel more believable, which is still pretty stupid in my opinion. Interestingly, Evangeline Lilly specifically requested that her character not be put into a love triangle like this when she accepted the role as Tauriel. For some reason, unknown to me, they reversed that decision and did reshoots to include it. There was clearly outside influence on the films, because if I remember correctly Peter Jackson only wanted to make 2 movies, not 3, and the reasoning for more money and greed is probably true.

[@coloradospacegeek4226]

Yeah, go figure a Longbeard without a beard. The book talks of how long Thorin's beard was and how proud he was of it.

[@BaldyAngry]

like they should be casted as human not dwarfs.

[@matthiasthulman4058]

@@eamonnholland5343 Odd that she would have predicted the love triangle thing. I wonder what made her make that specific stipulation

[@samcochran8203]

@@matthiasthulman4058 She knows Hollywood

[@BulgyBoar]

There's no doubt about it, the film was ruined by making it into a trilogy. The chase scenes are pointless filler and I just fast-forward through them every time (Radagast in particular is a painful parody). But I strenuously disagree that Martin Freeman was a poor choice for Bilbo - I think he was inspired for the character and I do think he shows considerable development by the ending. Likewise there were great performances from Richard Armitage and Benedict Cumberbatch. However, I'm really surprised that hardly anyone has mentioned the superlative performance by Lee Pace as Thranduil. For me, that was the gem of the whole trilogy.

[@unknownbeats4490]

You've got to take into account that originally Peter Jackson wasn't going to be the director. He had just over 4 months to prepare for the hobbit, whereas he had 4 years to prepare for LOTR. And after watching the new TV series "rings of power" I truely understand how important Peter Jackson was to the LOTR franchise.

[@d3sc3nding]

Have you watched The behind the scenes, on the extended editions? PJ actively trolls all teh dwarf actors, he was being a straight up beligerant dick and had a demeanor of sum1 who held no reverence whatsoever of the masterpiece which was created just 10yrs prior - by himself! I honestly think he was addicted to opiates during filming of The Hobbit.

[@unknownbeats4490]

@@d3sc3nding my guy I watched the behind the scenes and the Peter Jackson diaries. What your describing is called "banter" that's what friends and co workers do they tease they prod it's funny, you must be American since you take offence to that. Brits, kiwis, SA and Aussies know what banter is.

[@d3sc3nding]

🥱 I guess I enjoy a little banter moar when the ppl doing their job, do it well

[@danm5911]

But why did he have only 4 months? Because hollywood creates artificial deadlines and creates urgency where none need exist. Make the movie right. Once production starts - yes, you're on a timeline. But before that, get the story right or don't bother.

[@bwill887]

Even with their problems, I can't call the Hobbit trilogy bad, especially given what came after. I think two movies would have been more reasonable and got rid of alot of the padding. That said, Jackson tried tying the movies into Lord of the Ring with the White Council side plot, which occurred at the same time based on the LOTR appendices. Ironically Azog took the role of Bolg from the book, with the movie Bolg becoming closer to a generic henchman. The fight scenes were overblown, the romance came out of nowhere, and the characters bordered on caricatures, however, i think all of this was done to add weight to the movie. The book had caricatures too, with only Thorin and Bilbo being fleshed out of the company, and the writers relied on these to stand in for the characters; the romance i think was designed to tug on the heartstringsof the audience, making the deaths of Fili and Kili more poignant instead of the book where they just died; and the fight scense were for kids, which the book was made for. I would blame this movie on the studio's need for more money, but I think Jackson did what he could. This movie was to attract families, the writers and cast did what they could with the paper thin characters. Showing the shole Battle of Five Armies instead of Bilbo being knocked out at the mid point, focusing more on Thorin overcoming this than Beorn dropping in and destroying the armies, the hunt of the dwarfs adding a reason to be pushed ahead were actually decent additions.

[@julespayne7928]

The irony of the Hobbit being a tale to ward against greed then being chopped in three to make more money is hilarious

[@stijnvdv2]

I thought the original trilogy was already absurd enough. Everybody seemed to like it but my family ain't stupid and after each 3-4 hour long episode of the trilogy everyone was wondering wtf we had been watching.

[@AnglicanFish]

When you include Legolas, Galadriel and Radagast in a movie regarding a book that didn’t even include them *Sad Tom Bombadil noises*

[@nullForce]

They probably should have thrown Tom in there for the fan service. They milked everything else. 🙄

[@ironmonkey1512]

That birdsheet beard sled scene, I would have walked out but my kids were there.

[@Gjudxdkjyzddhjnr7091]

Lady Goldberry likes this post

[@skaetur1]

Bombadil, the barrow downs, the scouring of the shire.

[@jonbaxter2254]

One of these days we'll have him... One of these days...

[@Akhundelar_Far]

Everyone can be a critic. But are you bashing the movie or the book because some elements that you didn't like came from Tolkien directly, so you know better then him?

[@nyxnecrodragon4256]

My dad used to read The Hobbit to me before bed when I was 3. When the movies where announced to be a trilogy my initial reaction was "You need three movies for that?"

[@julianpradarodriguez7336]

For me even 2 movies is going too far. The animated was only one movir

[@TheGoodLuc]

It was my first fantasy book which my mother read me in childhood. So yes.

[@roryslaine7896]

It was a clear money grab. They were banking on peoples nostalgia for the original LOTR trilogy. Just like they did with the Star Wars sequels.

[@Wade_Fucking_Wilson]

@@roryslaine7896 The sequels are worse

[@roryslaine7896]

@@Wade_Fucking_Wilson That's what I meant lol. Edit: Wait, did you mean the Star Wars sequels were worse than the Hobbit movies? If so, my bad, because I'd agree with you there. At least the Hobbit movies were loyal to the already established lore and source material. The Star Wars sequels just pissed in the face of the originals.

[@TheLonelyGoomba]

Still not got round to watching the third film. It’s not even that they’re bad, just not that engaging

[@Tinfoilnation]

A film that is not engaging its audience... is, by definition, bad.

[@tyvamakes5226]

We will await your perspective of the hobbit between those pipes

[@aleksander8497]

"just not that engaging" Yes, boring...

[@rhyscallinan4402]

The start of the battle is so stupid. Dwarven Reinforcement army and Elven army almost fight each other, but no, Orcs are like "here we are" using creatures that never existed in LoTR. At least the outtakes show a small battle between them before they realise the true enemy. Like they just wanted two races to come together so bad that such a scene was taken out is shit.

[@polarequatorial709]

The whole movie was “filler”.

[@kevinphoenix2007]

Compared to "The Rings of Power", The Hobbit trilogy is a masterpiece right up there with Lord of the Rings itself.

[@reek4062]

Nah, Rings of Power is better than the LotR trilogy

[@anakinskywalker8859]

@@reek4062 🤡

[@burakardaaksoy6339]

@Reek nice troll

[@sumanimeup]

I don’t know why people are hating on Rings of Power I’m enjoying the show

[@alurkingislander]

Rings of Power isn't as good as LotR but I say it's definitely better than these.

[@kevinroche3334]

Not sure you got this one completely right. All your complaints for the first half of the rant were some of the most accurate adaptations from the book; it's the added things, the filler, in the second half that most agree are the least successful . Also, the hobbit IS a simplistic cartoonish story without major character arcs and sub-plots...because it was written for children, while LOTR was specifically written for adults. I guess the problems arise from trying to shoehorn adult themes into a children's story with cartoonish characters. However, if you can accept all this, the Hobbit is an entertaining story; I liked it then and I like it now - it should not be compared directly with LOTR, which remains a masterpiece.

[@baxterrhodes7542]

It doesn't help that Peter Jackson was called into the production of this movie with half the time to finish it. He didn't even want to direct it, but Guillermo Del Toro (the original director) literally just up and quit midway through production. This forced Peter to jump in. There literally came a point in the shooting when Peter had to stop all shooting so he could just sit and actually think about what the fuck was going on in the story and how he was going to shoot it. These movies should never have been made, it was obvious the people upstairs were just diggin for quick cash.

[@MiaogisTeas]

Reminds me of what happened with Harry Potter. He was brought in to give it edginess, but he couldn't last the distance plus more than one GDT edgefest is too many.

[@DonatoColangelo]

You know, it is true, Jackson had had not enough time for the pre-production, and he was in serious trouble shooting. However, many of the problems that this trilogy has stem from the choices that were made while the script was written, and the script was more than finished by the time they started shooting. So, yes, the troubles due to the shift in the direction were a major flaw, but the script in the first place was not that great.

[@ba55bar]

@@DonatoColangelo the script was not finished when they started shooting and was rewritten daily. When production began The Hobbit was two movies, after the two were roughly edited the decision was made to create three movies to link the story in better with LotR. The extra footage was shot during pickups

[@ba55bar]

Del Toro left because of all of the delays getting the rights sorted. He was scheduled to direct another movie and delayed starting that one until he absolutely had to

[@DonatoColangelo]

@@ba55bar what about the High Fells stuff? Was that written later on, too? I could be misinformed about this.

[@mr.mystery9940]

I don't really get Smaug's criticism. I mean, WTF he's gonna supposed to do? Building an army? Raise the dead? He's a fucking dragon. Dragons loves gold. It's in their nature to wants as much gold as it possibly can. That's how Tolkien made most of his dragons, so why it's supposed to be anything else. I'm actually glad, they didn't gave Smaug some pussy as backstory or some dumb motivation other than what he did in the books. It desires gold, it takes gold. WTF are wanna aside from that? I mean, I agree, that makes him one dimensional, but isn't he supposed to be like that in the books. I mean, they make it somewhere more interesting in the films, at least they give him other quirks and personality traits, other than just being an arrogant asshole, who's sure in his invincibility.

[@Megrez-Alberich]

The movies are blamed when they stray from the book, and they're also blamed when they are faithful to it. Go figure...

[@danielsaines602]

How about get more gold? I get that mountains of the stuff would make most things content, but dragons always want a bigger pile to sleep on. How about charging people to not burn down their town. Like a mafia protection scheme. Popping out to burn down places, in exchange for a big pile of gold. Enslaving a few people to mine more gold. All of which would antagonize people. Which is the point of an antagonist.

[@x340x]

agree. what i dont like tho is the fact that he single handedly destroyed whole dwarf kingdom when he arrived but then is unable to even hurt one of the 13 dwarves and suddenly turns into silly clumsy incompetent dumb dumb

[@kyleangelocastro9460]

@@x340x probs cuz he didn’t even destroy the people of the kingdom, there was a flashback where alot of the dwarves were still alive so it’s kinda believable

[@LorgarAurelius]

The author of the video has dogshit points and makes less sense the more he talks.

[@cytorakdemon]

Denethor: "How could you survive when my son could not?" Pippin: "The greatest warrior could be felled by an arrow. Boromir was pierced by many." Denethor: "Why didn't he block the arrows with a ladder?" Pippin: "Because he was in a better movie than the Hobbit, my lord."

[@pavelslama5543]

yeah, but he still didnt remember that he had a shield on his back. Because in LotR trilogy, shields are a decorations.

[@BreakTempo]

@@pavelslama5543 I think in that scene he went to get wood and left his shield, that's another reason why Aragorn put everyone on alert, then when the Orcs came it was sauced up for him. lol

[@pavelslama5543]

@@BreakTempo Yeah, and Rohirrim on their ride towards Minas Tirith also let their shields strapped on their horses, instead of blocking the orc volleys with them.

[@BreakTempo]

@@pavelslama5543 yeah that’s true brotha, but hey we’ll never get perfect ya know :/, two of my fav movies are gladiator and the patriot but both have bloopers or story faults, I just feel like LOTR really tried, they were a good and fun story to see play out, idk I just enjoyed them haha , what are some movies you recommend Bro?

[@NASkeywest]

@@BreakTempo all Paul Thomas Anderson movies are gold! “The Master” and “There will be blood.” Are two of the best movies ever imo. “Inherent Vice” is great to, the second time you watch it is the best though. He has a new movie called “Licorice Pizza.” That’s coming out soon. PTA is the best writer/director alive today! He is so good that Daniel Day Lewis and Joaquin Phoenix both say yes when he asks them to be in his movie.

[@untipoxddd5784]

8:01 I remember Thorin, Bombur, Fíli, kíli,Dori,Nori,Ori,Bombur,Bifur, Dwalin. Sorry if I misspelled something.

[@untipoxddd5784]

ok i have finally memorized their names: Thorin, Kíli, Fíli, Balin, Dwalin, Bofur, Bifur, Bombur, Dori, Nori, Ori, Óin and Glóin

[@daisukeakihito9832]

Honest, this movie never felt like a Lords of the Rings movie at all, it felt more like one from Asterix and Obelix instead.

[@JasonAdank]

The adventures of Asterix and Obelix would make an awesme tv series if done faithfully.

[@pasqualeturano4060]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooPKqWmdhpKenpI

[@TSPH1992]

@@JasonAdank there are some animated movies out there. But they were released in Europe. Not sure about the USA. I can tell you. I have the DVDs and I am planning to preserve them for my relatives

[@scenemaker864]

If you were watching high, sure

[@boarfaceswinejaw4516]

@@TSPH1992 you can find most of the animated movies on youtube. some of the 3d animated ones are pretty great as well.

[@billjackson2863]

True story...when I saw Battle of the Five Armies in the theater, some audience members were sighing and groaning out loud at how extended the fight scenes were.

[@snowyrabbitofinle1764]

Can't blame them.

[@notwise9455]

Extended addition made that, and I hate to say it, SO MUCH WORSE. There was a solid twenty or thirty minutes of pointless cgi fighting and I hate it every time I think about it.

[@tarron3237]

Bear.. dropped.. by.. eagle! Need I say more? They did Beorn so dirty. The bear killed Bolg and smashed the Orks' resolve.. I would've loved to watch that. It was also a very emotional moment, when Beorn picks up Thorin, a dwarf, carries him out of harms way - and returns enraged!

[@jmal]

I slept through that film in the theater. Partly because I was tired from work, and the fact that the film itself is so goddamn boring.

[@MaryBrownIsTheBlairWitch]

No they weren't.

[@Comicsluvr]

A couple of points: Gimli had more screen-time planned but John Rys Davies was allergic to the makeup for some reason. Watch some scenes and you can see his eyes are almost swollen shut. So he'd suffer through a day of shooting and then take two days to recover. It was a shame because he had a lot more material to work with. Also, Pete Jackson had one movie in mind but the studio insisted on the trilogy so they could milk the film. Sadly, they could have made more profit off of a single movie with a much lower price tag.

[@necrosunderground]

@Anjelica Snorcket Well, it wasn't exactly reasons unknown, Guillermo and his wife had a baby just before shooting started, and as a new father, he didn't want to be away in New Zealand for that amount of time. That said, I *do* wish he had been able to direct it. I think he would have delivered a far better finished product. And as for criticisms towards Peter Jackson, he said from the start that he really didn't have any desire to direct The Hobbit, he was perfectly happy to be a producer for it, though. But it fell in his lap when Guillermo dropped out, and I think it really shows that Peter's heart just wasn't in this like it was for LotR

[@christianclark347]

@Anjelica Snorcket I heard Del Toro had 3 movies planned. 2 were the Hobbit and the 3rd was supposed to be a young Aragorn story to fill the gap between the two trilogies. I guess it would show him growing up and traveling the world incognito, his service in Rohan and Gondor, subjugating Umbar, and culminating in tracking down Gollum for Gandalf and delivering him to the elves. I'm not sure that would have been a necessary movie to make. Could have been neat for world-building, I guess, but I just don't see it adding that much and apparently neither did the studio. That said, I still have trouble believing they changed the Hobbit to 3 movies only after the principle shooting was already completed. How could they have thought that was a good idea? I feel more bad for Jackson than anything, getting thrown into the middle of that.

[@necrosunderground]

@Anjelica Snorcket I think the lag time for getting it going was a factor, as well; most likely several reasons, but if I remember correctly, del Toro and his wife decided to go ahead and have a baby because of the up-in-the-air timing, and by the time they finally got it moving forward, the baby had arrived and he bowed out. And agreed, the cgi was way over the top, plus the story being stretched to paper-thin over three movies. And don't get me started on that contrived romance subplot 🙄

[@Remnazuo]

@@christianclark347 My understanding is that the studios forced the filmmakers into having 3 movies. Originally, they were going to try for a 2 part hobbit and a "bridge" movie between that and LOTR. When Peter Jackson became the director, they decided to switch it to a hobbit trilogy.

[@jkhristian]

@Anjelica Snorcket Correct. It’s my understanding that one movie was going to be about the Hobbit. The other movie was going to be a bridging film between the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings using stuff from the LOTR appendices. Like the Hunt for Gollum, etc.

[@videozz2012]

I didn't like the she Elf being introduced into the movie for the sole purpose of a love connection with a Dwarf. I didn't like the way they made Beorn act in human form... As a beast Beorn was awesome, I wish we could've seen more of him but as a human Beorn just seemed like an awkward acting job. I didn't like the Dwarf fight scene in Erebor with Samug, it just seemed silly and unnecessary. I wish the scene with Bilbo and Smaug lasted longer because to me, that was the highlight of the entire trilogy. The scene with Gollum was awesome, the only thing I would've changed is I would've made the lighting darker in Gollum's cave. I also would've made the lighting darker in Bilbo's scenes with Samug in Erebor. There's much more I would have changed but overall I enjoyed the trilogy for the most part and also the battle of the 5 armies was very good. Oh! But the scene where Bilbo breaks the Dwarves out of the woodland realm prison was waaaaayyy too fast!! That was a incredible chapter in the book that needed more screen time to unfold properly I thought. Again the lighting was too bright in that scene and overall the scene happened much too quick. Showing off more of Bilbo's stealth and intelligence would've have created a more enjoyable scene. One of my biggest critiques of the Hobbit trilogy was how much certain, very important scenes felt rushed in order to create space for scenes that felt unnecessary and awkward. Tauriel had no business being in this movie and was a huge detriment to the film. The trilogy wasn't terrible but it definitely needed to have a much darker feel to it and overall I finished the trilogy with a large amount of distaste for Bilbo, which I didn't have at all while reading the book...

[@piplup2009]

Warner Bros: make this movie Peter Jackson: ok I'll need about 3 years to get all the sets and costumes ready for shooting and it would make more sense as 2 films so it isn't bloated Warner Bros: you've got 3 months it's a trilogy and you start now, go

[@Lakhshamana]

Well Guillermo del Toro was going to direct it and he already has about a year's worth of prep... then the execs threw out those prep and got Peter Jackson to direct.

[@JamesEatWorld7758]

To be fair it started out as a duology and was turned into a trilogy after the first part was released

[@pasqualeturano4060]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooPKqWmdhpKenpI

[@briani50]

@@Lakhshamana that really hurts my heart. I had no clue Guillermo was supposed to direct... would’ve been so good.

[@willh3972]

Yeah the rapid changes in leadership and utter lack of planning made everything worse. Its similar to the new star wars movies having no script even when shooting. I dont know how good it could have been but this was built to fail.

[@tranquilthoughts7233]

Smaug isn't a morally complex character, he isn't supposed to. The dragons were the last original creation of morgoth and they are greedy and malicious by nature. The reason for why smaug went out to destroy laketown was equally simple. He knew there were dwarves on his mountain. He could smell them and he ate the ponies that the dwarves were riding up to the mountain. However, he didn't know where exactly they were and couldn't reach them. But he learned from a conversation with bilbo that the people of laketown had helped the dwarves. So while the dwarves were like an itch he couldn't quite reach, laketown was an entirely different matter. He essentially just figured "well, i have dwarves here, i don't like that and those people in laketown helped the dwarves get here. Let's go out and teach them a lesson." In fact in the book the dwarves never even saw smaug much less fought him.

[@luxinvictus9018]

The problem is "not being a complex character" is not a good thing when you have 3 3 hour films released over several years. I'm gonna need something, and somehow f*cling along the defiler plays a more important role than smaug

[@JMBBrasil]

yes, also he holds a grudge agains the town people for hitting him with an arrow.

[@alfredsupersauce]

Martin Freeman was a great casting choice for Bilbo. His uptight side character vibe is perfect for Bilbo’s more peace and quiet loving side, and if the writing was actually good he could’ve had a good character arc.

[@yunnaot]

I agree, he was great as Bilbo, especially in the first movie. It's that the script is mostly shit and doesn't handle his character well enough.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

For me Martin IS Bilbo Baggins and he's exactly how I imagined him to be. The problem is that the script doesn't take the time to fully develop or focus on Bilbo the way it does in the book which makes whatever character arc they were trying with him just not work.

[@trinelangohr6661]

Haha, that's what I THOUGHT. "He's going to be perfect, he's practically typecast that kind of person anyway!" But then, when I saw it, Martin Freeman was boring as fuck as Bilbo. Every single expression on his face is 100% predictable, BECAUSE he's typecast that sort of character. He was the Bilbo we all wanted, but he was not the Bilbo we needed.

[@alfredsupersauce]

@@trinelangohr6661 but was that his fault or the fault of the writing being absolute cheeks? No way of knowing for sure, the whole thing was a let down anyway.

[@homershimshon4172]

Agreed. Martin Freeman was one of the few good things about the trilogy.

[@_.alex.-]

I've watched the Hobbit trilogy once. I have watched the EXTENDED LoTR trilogy, multiple times. That is all. Great vid dude.

[@Irishpride4774]

I would watch the extended hobbit series on an endless loop before I watch any new Star Wars movie one More time

[@OoxB505]

Hear hear! 😋

[@johnleonard9102]

I agree. I started rewatching Rise of Skywalker yesterday while doing some chores and I was constantly criticizing every single thing about it

[@Lultschful]

That's like saying "I'd eat dog poop before I'd eat dog vomit."

[@Irishpride4774]

@@Lultschful “you eat pieces of shit for breakfast”

[@thecocktailian2091]

Its like your Alex from Clockwork Orange. What a horror show.

[@englishlady9797]

I think The Hobbit Trilogy had the same problem as the Narnia movies. They took a book that was meant to be simplistic and a bit silly (because its for children) and tried to pad it out into an epic fantasy story like LOTR which is a much deeper, darker and more complex story for adults. In other words, they tried to make it something it was not.

[@mrackelito1]

Batman managed to do it, maybe they thought they could too

[@Sir_TophamHatt]

@@mrackelito1 batman didn’t adopt any preexisting material like a book, they took a basic concept and created a whole new story out of it for film. There’s really no comparison here. Also it’s not like there wasn’t a dark and gritty, more serious and adult version of batman in some of the comics before the dark knight etc. were made

[@rjlchristie]

Yep. Jackson wanted to make both stories into splatter/monster action movies.

[@lucidbarrier]

I really liked the first Narnia movie, I think it was really good. It did kind of follow the book too. I know I was disappointed that they stopped making them. I know other people who wanted to see more as well. The White Witch is a pretty dark character for a children's book. If you have ever read the Magician's Nephew, you know what an evil person she is. I think they did a good job balancing things out. The studio really ruined the Hobbit movies by making Jackson make three of them

[@mtcelticharper]

Exactly.

[@mc_rysiek5277]

The argument about Smaug's motivation is hardly a valid one. I mean, his motivation is exactly the same as it was in the book. So the only person you can blame for that is Tolkien.

[@42Nightsyesterday]

Right. I think one thing you could say is that they greatly inflated his menace and importance, while in the book (intended for children) he was simply another obstacle for Bilbo to overcome and was mainly intended to illustrate Bilbo’s growth from a timid homebody to an adventurer who could face down a dragon (with a little help from his ring of course) It kind of all comes back to the issue that the films focus on the dwarves and their crusade and not on bilbo and his arc like in the books. It is called “the hobbit” after all

[@petriew2018]

except that motivation is really a shit one for the antagonist of a trilogy... he literally does not give a shit about the world outside until Bilbo takes something from him 2/3 of the way into the book. And while this makes sense in the context of the story, and is not a problem in a relatively short children's novel... it means that until the Dwarves actually get to the Lonely Mountain there is literally no antagonist worth mentioning, hence why they had to pull Azog out of their ass just to manufacture some drama. So it is a valid criticism of the movies in that they went in knowing they had a big villain problem, but forged ahead anyway

[@tedferkin]

The main issue with The Hobbit, is that it is a series of very short stories to get your kids to sleep. It was never a coherent story in the first place, more a set of excerpts from the full adventure. Peter Jackson's adaptation attempted to fill in with the usual Hollywood tropes rather than trying to project the rich background of Middle Earth. In Peter's defence I believe he originally went with a two part option, but got told to make it a triology. Personally I would have walked away at that point. I watched this at the cinema (something rare for me). I don't have good 3D vision, so the first part (which I cannot even remember what it is called), left me so disorientated I declined to watch the rest until they were released on DVD. I was already somewhat wary of the production. I left disappointed. My other half, who has never read the books because she doesn't read books, left bewildered as to what the hell was going on, but thought it was a fun film. I think this is the aim of most Hollywood films now. "Here's a momentary point in your life. Don't think about what happened, or try to establish any meaning. Just view it as a trade for £7.5ph of filling in your life"

[@mattparks2153]

So true. I wondered why he made such an unfair and frankly stupid criticism.

[@seyerus]

They adapted and made up so much other stuff, they could’ve made Smaug a bit more complex.

[@maxmazzotti6651]

I think the Hobbit trilogy failed because of a problem also suffered by the Star Wars Prequels: Living up to the legacy of its predecessor(The Hobbit Trilogy to the LOTR Trilogy, and The SW Prequel Trilogy to the OT). Yeah, I know the prequels have some iffy dialogue, plot lines, and CGI, but at least it was George Lucas writing a fun and engaging story meant to complement the OT, not to surpass it. Meanwhile, If I were to direct the Hobbit, I would try to make just a one-off stand alone adaptation of the book, not stretching it out into a trilogy while having a good, competent script to make sure it makes sense to the audience. In conclusion, Both the Hobbit Trilogy and the Star Wars Prequels suffered from trying to live up to their predecessors(Although I admit I was too young to know about the Prequel trilogy and Hobbit Trilogy backlash when I was a kid.). But hey, At least both trilogies are almost equally good to their predecessors due to the Rings of Power show and the Disney Sequel trilogy am I right?!

[@dogma9609]

@12:30 "he's basically the same person at the end as he was at the beginning" i would disagree w that rather strongly... Bilbo went thru much hell, saved the day on numerous occasions, and "discovered his courage" as he said. even Gandalf warned him, that he won't come back the same

[@juma8126]

The saddest part of this unnecessary trilogy is that, when they stick to the original it has some really good sceens. The riddles in the dark and the dwarves in Hobbiton are really enjoyable as their own little movie shorts.

[@asmahasmalaria8596]

That's the sad part. I went into the theater expecting the worst film ever, and then the Hobbiton scene happened and I was like "Oh, what a pleasant surprise!" And then everything went to shit immediately after.

[@someeejit]

I love the scene of Bilbo talking to Smaug but I refuse to watch the entire movie again just to get to it

[@koichidignitythief7429]

Good parts of the Hobbit Movies: 1. Hobbiton 2. Trolls 3. Riddles in the Dark 4. Conversation with Smaug 5. Some of the Battle of the Five Armies 6. Anything with Azog (honestly out of all the new characters he was genuinely cool)

[@koichidignitythief7429]

@DraculaCronqvist Guillermo made a lot of these changes people complained about anyway and he fucking abandoned the project because that's just what Del Toro does with half of his shit. Jackson also wanted it to be just one movie but the studio insisted on a trilogy or else scrap the entire thing.

[@jonathanbradley4896]

If they'd made it into one compact 3 hour film instead of fucking THREE, it could have been decent. They could have had no filler, just stick to the important plot points and off you go. If you need to shoehorn Legolas or Sauron in, have It just be like a brief 30 second cameo. It would have had nothing on LotR of course, but that's a fucking tough act to follow.

[@unwarranteddesign806]

You know you've failed when the CG looks worse than that in the previous trilogy, which was made 10 years prior.

[@greypilgrim228]

Primarily because: a) The new movies have higher resolution, so all the sets and CGI that passed mustard last time just look like tacky plastic sets and laughable cartoon characters. b) LOTR mainly focused on hundreds of extras garbed up in hours worth of makeup and costumes to sell it, mixed in with careful use of CGI in the background and where the extras/set pieces were weakest to create a truly breath taking battle, landscape etc. that seemed like a sea of thousands of Urak-Hai instead of the 200 it actually was. c) the use of extras in makeup gave the orcs a menace and realism the Hobbit can only dream of. You never felt any uncanny valley effect because they were real faces supposedly tortured for hundreds of years by Sauron, into the horrific beings in front of you, blemishes and all. The hobbit's CGI just looks flat and too clean, like playing a badly designed computer game rather than a high budget film trilogy.

[@bilalhussein9730]

@@greypilgrim228 Watching the behind the scenes of the Hobbit was a calvacade of horrors. 😆 Wanting to push ultra HD film at higher frame rates just crippled the special effects department.

[@kingweeb3365]

Smaug is pretty book accurate from what I hear ,the whole reason he took the mountain wasn't out of some complex motivation ,he took the mountain for the gold ,thats it really

[@feekygucker2678]

It’s a dragon thing iirc.

[@racheltheradiant4675]

Most of your criticisms of the movie are actually things from the book, like the incompetent Dwarves, the singing, and Smaug's motivations. Now while I agree they did pad the movies with extra things to make them longer, the tone actually fits the book. The Hobbit is hilariously funny and light hearted, until it isn't. As a child I never expected Thorin to die after he finally reached his goal, he reminded me a bit of Moses, traveling all that way but never being able to see the promised land. As a girl I shamelessly enjoyed the romantic subplot and the Legolas and Thranduil "fan service." No these movies will never compare to the original trilogy, but they're still entertaining and yes you were right, they're better than Rings of Power.😆😆 In the End, I don't mind wasting a few hours with Bilbo and company.

[@maplebob23]

The singing is the best part. How can you have Tolkien without song?

[@B33nj4m1n]

You simply can't! The songs and poetry are the heart and soul of his books, so by taking those out, you make it a movie with about as much heart and soul as Ghostbusters 2016

[@HostileLemons]

Exactly, I dont understand his problem with the songs.

[@jenkhemhuffersanonymous3990]

I don't think he's read the books lmao

[@VuNguyen-bo2cm]

Lotr uses it sparingly so it’s good. The hobbit uses them to pad out the run time. They add nothing to the story

[@wh1t3bo111]

The heavy CGI kills it, Same with the unnecessary trilogy for something that could’ve been 2 movies AT MOST…

[@-Drah-Dee-Pale-]

true. it should have been ONLY TWO movies.

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

@@-Drah-Dee-Pale- A duology would have been nice.

[@christianclark347]

I was really sad they didn't do more of the "bigature" style sets they used in LotR. Then I learned they tried, but apparently the 48 fps killed the effect and made them look fake as hell.

[@jamst123]

2 movies and actual costumed bag guys like we got with lurtz and gothmog then it's saved.

[@tarron3237]

It's also too action packed and has too many unnecessary changes. The Hobbit is a wonderful fairy tale if you so will, not an action movie. Fantasy and beautiful scenery should've been the priority. They made it too grim and depressing.

[@belthoff444]

The singing was a part of the book. There's several songs in the LOTR books, those weren't added to extend the movies' run time

[@ImGoingSupersonic]

Yes they were added for that. It didn't add to the movie at all. It wasn't needed.

[@B33nj4m1n]

@@ImGoingSupersonic lol, what...? The books are chock-full of songs and poems!🤣 Obviously some may or may not enjoy said poems/songs, but if you think those were added to extend the runtime of a movie, you clearly haven't read Tolkien's books

[@EmperorSigismund]

@@B33nj4m1n The books were full of songs but I don't think the way they were used in the movie added much value. Not in the way, for example, they were used in the Rankin/Bass films at least.

[@juliaj7939]

@@EmperorSigismund Although the first song the dwarves sing about "finding their long forgotten gold" was amazing. I think it's called, "Far Over the Misty Mountains Cold".

[@NichtVorhanden]

@@ImGoingSupersonic "Misty Mountains" clearly shows, what the goal for the thirteen draws is. "Do what Bilbo Baggins hates" is a song which they sing to basicly annoy Bilbo. Those two songs are also in the book and do the same thing. But in the Book it's great and in the film it's garbage? The hobbits leave didn't just clouded your minds, it fucked them completely up!

[@Mark-he3tl]

Watching this today - couldn't agree with everything you said more. The only bit I was looking forward to was the addition of the cleansing of Mirkwood, chasing Sauron out, but the films were so bad (I still havent watched the end of the third one) I can't even remember that bit. 'But hey, at least it'll probbaly be better than the Amazon TV series' - How prophetic! Laughed when i heard that bit! ;)

[@CAMELOT331]

I don't even consider LOTR film. More like an experience.

[@supernazighost1749]

Yes, a very painful one.

[@sylvainprigent6234]

An attempt at that

[@RealBadGaming52]

Star Trek The Motion Picture, 2001 A Space odessy, The Truman Show,AI and Blade Runner 1982 would also fit this ctagory of Experience films

[@MantraHerbInchSin]

@@supernazighost1749 Are you talking about the Hobbit, or LOTR? Because if you think LOTR were painfull, then I don't know what to think

[@Shadow__133]

Me too. I remember paying 2x for the experience of watching the second movie only to fall asleep midways both times.

[@Courier_Seven]

Legolas and Gilmli's friendship is one of the most pure examples of friendship in all of fiction.

[@WR3ND]

In the books they're nice. I don't care so much for them in the movies, but they're alright. Everyone else in the fellowship is more accurately and better represented than them in the adaptation, in my opinion.

[@hugzpls]

@@WR3ND It's still kind of cool of their friendship if you think about it. Their races, supposedly from the movies, are in hostile with one another and going through everything they became friends in the end. It's beautiful tbh

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

It also sends a powerful message of over coming racism without forcing wokism. Has the right amount of seriousness, humor, and camaraderie

[@peripateticguy55]

Smaug was like that in a book. Him and Bilbo was one of the few scenes I liked (mainly because of Benedict's performance).

[@GAndreC]

The dragon was done the way dragons are supposed to be done. It’s motivations match those of every other dragon capable of being a character out there

[@woodsplitter3274]

Agreed. I also thought the songs were good. But most everything else was bad.

[@dedrereads1474]

Technically he and all dragons are agents of Sauron or middle-earth Satan or whatever, so sitting around and sewing chaos and death kind of IS their whole deal, but yeah I'll agree that other than being an obstacle and not being dead when he could have been, he's not much in and of himself. He's not even the most active dragon in the Middle Earth saga as far as messing up peoples' lives. (One of them pulled off an elaborate "lolz you just banged your sister" in the Silmarillion) The movies COULD have done something with this, maybe to link him more to Sauron? But that wasn't in the books and he's a dragon, he doesn't strictly need it. Also Benedict's performance was ON POINT!

[@beastmanonehorm4621]

Overacting is not cool. Benedict's performance was cringe as hell. He absolutely miss drogon's character. He played crazy lizard which is second before dead shoted by taser.

[@landonletterman831]

@@woodsplitter3274 the songs were hit and miss for me.

[@thomasjanof234]

“in LOTR when you fall off of a 500 foot cliff you die” Aragorn: nah fam

[@StarWarsomania]

At least they tried to make it slightly realistic. He fell on top of a giant worg, into a river. They even kind of imply Arwen might have done something to help him. Then Brego finds him, and they have to trek back to Helm's Deep by themselves (and see the Uruk-hai army, I think that was most of the reason for that series of events). In The Hobbit trilogy, Aragorn would have just bounced right back up from that fall, "Hey guys, s'up?"

[@thomasjanof234]

@@StarWarsomania haha true im not gonna question lotr i just thought it was funny

[@petriew2018]

in fairness he landed in water and barely survived... in The Hobbit they're just dusting themselves off and right back to fighting...

[@Troublechutor]

Yeah, I lol'ed here too... also, good thing those Númenorians float on their backs or not at all!

[@MRailef]

Iol I was thinking about that. Falling with armour into water from 120 feet to a cliff. Wake up not even spiting water a couple miles away.