What Happened To Our Villains?

[@TheCriticalDrinker]

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[@bhuvaneshs.k638]

Thanos.... He was a great Villian

[@lukestock6115]

I love this channel, The Critical Drinker is my favorite KZbin channel. I agree something has happened to almost every major villain except for Thanos in Hollywood now at days. A good movie villain was Mr. Glass in the first Unbreakable movie. Another good villain was Koba in the Plant of the Apes series and Megatron in Transformers. Have you notice almost of all the Villans now at days are all White Men while all of the Heros are diversity something to think about. Anyways please keep up the good work Drinker. P.S. I love the part where you say Don't Know.

[@readhistory2023]

Just so you know Hela was always more powerful than Thor in classic comics. No idea about the new ones, I don't read them. He won because Odin stepped in or someother way. He didn't over power her.

[@i.am.not.herbert]

Dude, have you seen the trailer for The Ridiculousness that is the new movie coming out called shadow in the cloud? You should do a review just on it

[@dhilipans5412]

@@lukestock6115 ya Thanos got kicked heroes got kicked, honestly was good to see. it was similar to the dark knight.

[@MT-ic7ub]

The Villains are still around. They just write, produce and direct now.

[@richardshort3914]

*Mister Tracy* Good one!

[@sporkybutterz]

Nah even villians have principles and codes. What you are referring to are cowards and chicken shit weasels

[@connielingus8385]

@@sporkybutterz Vision and ambition, more importantly.

[@aaronroberts5272]

Yeah for PUREFLIX am I right.

[@dougjames4972]

TRUTH!!

[@cyberwaste]

"If your antagonist starts out weaker than the hero, then what the fuck is there left to strive against?" - Possibly the most succinctly perfect and true statement about the problem I've ever heard. There are so many aspects to strength, and these days villains seem to have incredible weaknesses written into them.

[@Araneus21]

This has potential when the antagonist grows along with the protagonist, they have a sort of an arms race, both getting more powerful, sparing periodically, sometimes one wins, sometimes the other, but both are aware that if they relent and not grow, their nemesis will win, so they improve. This is how it's done right.

[@pan_kruk339]

@@Araneus21 Or you could actually make the antagonist the person who grows stronger learns from his mistakes and eventually overcomes the hero... It would probably be kinda pessimistic and depressing, but I would like to see something like that (if done right of course).

[@jeremygeller9145]

One of my favorite villains is a serial killer with mystic powers, in his first encounter with our heroes he gets his ass kicked, but gaining knowledge from this he instead of trying to use what he thought was his overwhelming power to instead outwit and out think the heroes in the end of the story however the heroes are able to foil his plan and the difference in strength in a direct fight hasn’t changed so we get the satisfaction of a stomp while the tension of a real struggle against a formidable foe

[@cordlxze9559]

@@pan_kruk339 Kylo Ren did grow and eventually overcame Rey in their final fight. He was far more physical and dominant than Rey and had her on the ropes until leia interfered. Then Rey went with the dog move to strike him while he was in a moment of weakness and conflict, making her feel like the real villain

[@DemonicRemption]

@Neil Brooks Actually it is possible to write an antagonist that's weaker than the hero, you then have to make them strive to be stronger than the hero. Or in the case of a villain like Lex who uses his mind to outwit and outmatch Superman. But we don't get that since a lot of these writers are hacks.

[@PKMN37]

Considering how ridiculously powerful Rey is, the Disney trilogy should've made *her* the villain. It could've been a Negative Change Arc, as we'd see her fall to the Dark Side and Kylo Ren would evolve into the hero the story needed. *That* would've been *way* more interesting that what we actually got.

[@Nurgles_Rot_]

Negative. That would imply a man is good / a hero.

[@jms0313]

Seemed like that was the direction they were going until Ryan gay Johnson

[@25019719]

Yeah, agreed. Scarlett Witch in Wandavision could have gone the same way. Starts off a bad guy ( in AOU) then becomes good, then after Vision dies, completely loses it and becomes one of the biggest, most powerful bad guys in the MCU. But no, that would have been too much creative thinking.

[@shannonbutler-williams7261]

Hmm... yup, I'd watch that.

[@Stryker98]

Funnily enough, despite Disney's efforts trying to make Rey into a bullshit powerful Mary-Sue, many competently written, non Mary-Sue Star Wars characters easily overpower her. Rey ain't got shit on Darth Nihilus, EU Luke, or even Anakin.

[@maddoxlacy9072]

The funny part is, had Kylo Ren *won,* that could have actually made things work more. Imagine a villain that starts inept but becomes a major force towards the end. Ya know, if the hero is static, make the villain dynamic.

[@orihoola]

underrated comment

[@Shuizid]

I really thought during the second movie, they'd completly overhaul the whole franchise "killing the past" and exploring a new direction, where Kylo ends up convincing Rey to team up and build something new. A move where they leave the established motion of "good versus evil" behind, completing a saga in which balance might not have to be achieved by the constant war inbetween extremes but maybe something new... and then episode 9 happened and went so far back to fking basics they had to recycle the villain... Though contrary to this video, he overpowered Rey for like a minute, inbefore her character grew to the point she learns how to hold two one-handed weapons at a time.

[@Xplora213]

😭 this would have made sense, given Kylo’s redemption arc. But no.

[@marvinthomas9897]

If the hero is static, make the villain dynamic. Beautifully put.

[@stalhandske9649]

I guess. I mean it worked well enough in Milton's _Paradise Lost._

[@McToast1337]

The saddest thing is that Kylo - even though he's an inadequate villain - actually is a more interesting character than all the protagonists...

[@SylentEcho]

True. I didn't feel like rooting for any of them. I really wanted to from the start, but it just didn't happen.

[@davidkennedy3050]

Because his character actually had to overcome the single most terrifying villain ever, the modern screenwriter.

[@Сайтамен]

Kylo is just complex 30-year emo teen who has no motivation, logic, goal, character. He changes from good to bad and back, from ugly to sexy, from powerful to weak, from treating to funny constantly. He had some goal "destroy everything and built somthing new", but he didn't explain what new, why it's so important to even kill everyone, and he completely forgets about it after. He could be interesting with better writers.

[@enrique6335]

@@Сайтамен This is a good explanation. Once taking the whole saga into consideration it isn't hard to see why Vader served the Emperor. At that point he had so completely destroyed his old life that service to Palpatine was the only thing left for him to live for. This eventually changed when he learned about Luke and he began longing for that family he had lost. Meanwhile, has it ever been explicitly stated why Kylo/Ben went running into Snoke's arms? What was his motivation for joining the First Order? One thing that TLJ actually did right was the implication that Kylo just wanted to do his own thing. Ben being a wild card, allied to no movement, a Grey Jedi of sorts, would've been more interesting than Vader 2.0.

[@HellishSpoon]

Kylo feels more like the protagonist to me, He is young, Has emotional baggage, He is fighting aganist the practically invinciable protagonist and just in general seems like a perfect character for development.

[@cymond]

I was on an elevator at a sci-fi convention. We're all on our way down to the late night parties, when the elevator stops, the doors glide open, and frickin Darth Vader steps on, turns to face the doors, and never speaks a word. The whole elevator went silent. It was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. Everybody *knew* that it was just a nerd in a costume, but it didn't matter. His presence was simply that *imposing*.

[@Kkimishim]

Must’ve been an impressive suit

[@mannamoth918]

@@Kkimishim never underestimate the ability of a passionate nerd

[@markeastwood74]

That's hilarious. And testament to great production design.

[@clownshow5901]

I met the real Darth Vader (Dave Prowse), and had no idea it was him. I was standing at the back of the room near the restrooms waiting on someone else on the floor, and this guy strikes up a conversation with me. We chatted idly for 10 minutes and eventually he bid good day and moved on. A moment later my friend rushes up to me from the floor and was like "Dude!" I had no idea. This was in the early 80s.

[@beyond-journeys-end]

@@clownshow5901 What did you talk about?

[@briang.2218]

Kylo is a better antihero than a villain I suspect. Still, I will note: a villain being dangerously unstable rather than cool and collected can definitely work as well (see Homelander), but it has to ensure that the instability is genuinely dangerous to others.

[@thunkjunk]

Kylo really should have left on that mask. When he took it off the first time, the people in the theater laughed at his ugly mug.

[@arthaiser]

kylo killed han, which in itself would be villanious enough, but han being his father makes it even worse, and doing it when han was simply talking to him even worse still. kylo is a villain, is just that the trilogy tries to make you forget about these things for some reason

[@AngryGrape1337]

Unfortnately Disney couldn't decide if he is an anti-hero or villain.

[@dieterdietert7232]

Yeah but Homelander is not introduced as the villain but as the main superhero. he slowly becomes the villain whichg was hundred times more interesting than this Kylo Ren bs,

[@briang.2218]

@@dieterdietert7232 Mm I don't recall Homelander slowly becoming the villain. He's more a villain-in-hiding, and even then it's only for the very first episode. Everything from there on out just features him as the dangerously unstable barely-held-together psychopath.

[@lukeward5314]

I think Davy Jones is also a great example of a visually intimidating villain.

[@setcheck67]

Even the pirates films pulled this shit. There is a misogynistic scene where a boat doesn't allow women on board because they are bad luck. She tricks them and they all get slaughtered by the kraken. Elizabeth never actually has to fight against Davy Jones, probably because the writers didn't want the existential nightmare of pitting the perfect empowered woman against an eldritch immortal sailor grim reaper where they need to somehow come up with a way to make her come out on top against an opponent who can't lose outside of one specific flaw. The only reason Elizabeth gets a pass is that she's only a part of the story and all the important characters have their parts of the story revealed with equal representation. She's a perfect empowered woman, but Will Turner is a smart, fearless, and strong man. Sparrow is portrayed as the fool, but also has consistent moments of mindblowing intelligence against his enemies where the character really feels like he's just acting dumb to take advantage of his enemies having low expectations and thus preventing them from investing as much as they really should have against him. What elevates the Pirate's films is that the writing is really, really good.

[@setcheck67]

@@terriblet7885 Yeah they had a token moment for a split second where Davy had to explain why he's allowed to hit a woman for 10 of the 20 seconds they fought, "You'll not see any mercy from me!". However I'll also mention that... Elizabeth did not become the pirate queen in At World's End. She stayed on land waiting for will Turner when he could next come to shore to meet their son Henry who was in the next movie Fountain of Youth.

[@derekblain3603]

@@setcheck67 Another thing that elevates Pirates is the music. So good.

[@frocwin]

​@@setcheck67 nah bro, hating on Elizabeth is just hating on badass female characters. She's both feminine and strong, a perfect balance

[@peterrenn6341]

Possibly the least frightening Monkee though..

[@A_YouTube_Commenter]

He is exactly correct. This is beyond a trope by now.

[@Troublechutor]

We prop these tropes up by slavishly paying to see them. Tropes could be seen as a natural outgrowth of marketing+consumer apathy.

[@MonoLith2049]

A You Tube Commenter it's become its own meme

[@TheEducator89]

You should watch Run, Hide, Fight. Female protagonist that kicks predominantly male ass, but they set up her character and skills, and the baddies are not inept, she just outsmarts and outguns them.

[@killyourjoy]

The Invisible Man 2020.

[@hughcaires7434]

Yeah I believe the guy has a good point.

[@ChengTeoh]

Darth Vader : "Sister, so you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her too. Obi-wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete. If you will not turn to the Dark side then perhaps she will." Luke : *let's his rage take over* - This is why Vader is the most legendary bad@ss villain in cinematic history, even in defeat he wins.

[@wesleysmallwood413]

*Tosses lightsaber* "I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." To Drinker's point, Darth Vader being an iconic villain elevated Luke's status as a hero.

[@Skellotronix]

@@wesleysmallwood413 as a legend. Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader are as well known as historic figures. Forever will old star wars be talked about and remembered.

[@marcpjoyner]

Well the 8K versions will have new gender neutral dialogue. “Sibling? So, you have a twin sibling? If you will not turn to the dark side, than perhaps that person will.” Also, look forward to a future version of Empire with “No, I am your parent.”

[@efnissien]

Have to disagree with the drinker.. Vader does get back-chatted to by Boba Fett... and Vader lets him live, ok it serves a purpose - it shows just how dangerous Fett is to the heroes, but it also shows Vader is prepared to bite the bullet, be pragmatic, and recognize his men just aren't up to the job - he needs outsourced help that isn't fucked about upsetting senior ranks like members of a military outfit are. You need "A" grade bastards, who can think out of the box and focus on the job in hand.

[@BlazenRocker93]

I remember watching a behind the scenes clip where Lucas struggled for a while with what Vader could possibly say to unleash Lukes suppressed rage. Lucas might have a reputation for lackluster dialogue, but he struck gold there.

[@carriermodulation]

The coolest thing about Vader in the first film was he was even an outcast by the Imperials who either looked down upon his supernatural beliefs or were just plain too scared of him to associate, leaving him truly isolated and working directly for the antagonistic cause with no other motivations. A true black knight character more than the typical evil general archetype.

[@Storiaron]

One of my favourite parts too. When he talked about the force in episode 4 and the officers ridiculed him, calling it superstition, and treating him an idiot. he went from a member of a highly respected, well known order, surrounded with people who shared (partially) his beliefs, to being completely alone in the universe and he did all of this to himself...

[@olliefoxx7165]

@@keithmarlowe5569 I found Vader and Lechter to be symbols of power and intelligence that inspired fear and still somehow they appealed to our sympathies. Villains Luke Tuco Salimonco (Breaking Bad) and Ramsey Snow (Game of Thrones) were straight up violent killers, highly intelligent and unpredictable. They're some of my favorite villains bc they don't project any sympathy whatsoever. You know they are killers, sociopaths that get pleasure from inflicting pain and chaos. The audience wants them far away or dealt with just to get their menace away from the main characters. A true villain isn't sympathetic at least to me.

[@darthtrader4762]

This will blow your mind. But Darth Vader is in fact a death knight. He's even basically dead kept alive by technology. But he broke his vows, is cursed, and hates everything good because of it.

[@ekscalybur]

His isolation is a natural consequence of being the right hand of a guy who shoots freaking lightning out of his finger tips. Even if the Emperor couldn't do that, he still has the authority of an emperor, and the Emperor's personal Mr Fix-it will ALWAYS be completely isolated from society. Because a mere whisper from Vader could have billions wiped out from existence. Your 'coolest thing about Vader' is the expected thing about Vader.... If he wasn't treated that way, he'd be a shitty nonsensical character.

[@darthtrader4762]

@@ekscalybur so in other words he'd be a Rey?

[@ceasefire9000]

In the first Matrix, we see Trinity being a badass, but eventually being outdone by the agents, and only just escaping. It gave me respect for her as a character, and also a higher sense of tension and fear of the agents. This isn’t rocket science y’all.

[@jamescarr1265]

Ugh, Trinity’s whole attitude, look and aura are so cool and such a vibe.

[@Ishaan_A]

She's even killed at the end of Matrix reloaded, then Neo does bring her back to life but still it makes it more realistic that an Agent would ofc overpower her. Only Neo can really defeat them easily, especially in a gunfight. Morpheus barely defeated one until Neo saved him.

[@DanielRyanScott]

Escaping from the agents itself is bad ass. Thats good writing.

[@samialivand1511]

We live in a world in which a fan made movie with no budget is way more satisfying than billion dollar Hollywood movies

[@JohnSmith-kg2rt]

What fan movie I NEED to see it

[@garysuarez9614]

Helreach and the Death of Hope were both written and animated by fans. Excellently done. Edit: autocorrect did me wrong again.

[@markoklisuric1752]

Not exactly movies but watch anything crypt tv has made they may be short but they are amazing horrors, if you like horror movies

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Who killed captain alex is a cinematic masterpiece.

[@renzmanzano4010]

@@garysuarez9614 helsreach was based on a book, the fan series actually skipped and downscaled alot of what happend. Death of hope only had one ep and there wasnt much of a story aside from chaos doing chaos things.

[@ryanlucas3907]

I'll never forget seeing endgame, and laughing my ass off when the audience cheered at Thanos punching Captain Marvel. That really said it all for me.

[@biguy617]

I was cheering more for Wanda kicking Thanos ass

[@calebnorris6960]

For a split second I thought she was gonna take the Gauntlet from him I stood ready to nope tf out

[@darthmaul8278]

@@calebnorris6960 imagine if that happened that would just be plainly a "look we support females now buy our product" move

[@FranciscanGypsy]

@@biguy617 yes! It felt like Wanda EARNED that after all she had been through. Captain Marvel, not so much. I wanted Wanda to be the one to stomp Thanos into the ground! I love that he actually had a glimmer of fear when he faced her.

[@cymond]

@@calebnorris6960 I want to see LokiGator bite Thanos' hand off

[@killerdolphin48]

Ripley is a great example of a woman who isn't a goddess, she's just a normal person who overcomes impossible odds because of her will and wit

[@davecullins1606]

Being smart can especially be a nice excuse to make someone go from being weak to being able to wreck far stronger monsters.

[@jackbits6397]

And not once did I ever think, No way a woman could do that! Concerning Ripley.

[@chaoticgoodcreations947]

An essential part of alien was that the characters were basically truck drivers in space. They aren't meant to be soldiers or a threat to the xenomorphs. Ripley used her wit and knowledge of the ship to survive them and triumphed because her brain outlasted the alien's brawn. That is why we love Ripley.

[@ekathe85]

They don't make women like Ripley anymore

[@nopants4259]

This is what really fcuks me off ! because there are many examples of strong women overcoming threats in the movies. BUT a bunch of naive idiots who never watch any movies more than a couple of years old think they know it all.

[@ephgm]

There's no such thing as bad guys anymore, they are just misunderstood, and we get movies centered on them to help us sympathize with them and make them appear as good people.

[@ephgm]

@Dan Nguyen I was being sarcastic. I agreed with the video, bad guys aren't just bad for being bad. However, at least some bad guys would do bad things with the feeling that they are justified in doing so for one reason or another. A bad guy can be up to a point of view. I miss when a bad guy on a show was a bad guy just to be a bad guy, but I also do like occasionally showing the reasons for why they do things the way they do. However I think they do it to frequently these days, and they are desensitizing people towards it.

[@OxStong]

that's why I liked Jack Horner.

[@arimachezhian8631]

You are absolutely right. Homelander never did anything wrong, I don't know why some people are saying he is bad.

[@sirhellsing]

​@ephgm I still think bad for the pure reason of being bad is not great writing. Can't remember the last good villain who is purely evil

[@friendlyneighborhoodkelbea7258]

​@@sirhellsing Jack Horner

[@therevelistmovement4683]

Never allowing a woman to lose implies that she is NOT equal. Thanks for the likes, folks.

[@thefilmwatcher1302]

Except when the woman is genuinely stronger than the man, like in Ragnarok as Drinker mentioned, and a third party is necessary to win.

[@carebear2025b]

I'm a huge feminist, and I completely agree with this. Making women seem perfect invalidates real, flawed women

[@stopwritingthatreplyjohnat6638]

You do understand that equal doesn't mean that every person is a carbon copy of each other, also writing NOT in caps somehow makes your point make EVEN less sense

[@alkebulanawah4242]

Duh, real men don't beat women because it's beneath them

[@therevelistmovement4683]

@@stopwritingthatreplyjohnat6638 Read The Eternal's response.

[@mihmo2663]

As I woman, I hate getting pandered to. As if I'm not as smart as male movie watchers, like I need to have stories fed to me like I was a child.

[@alexdenton9176]

You don't hate being lied to, you hate the fact that it's true. Women are children because as soon as you get that first bit of male attention at thirteen you stop growing as people and become solipsistic narcissists. You have one function and it doesn't require being conscious for it to happen.

[@ernestcolemantheking]

More Women should be like you

[@Ett.Gammalt.Bergtroll]

@@alexdenton9176 Stop being the stereotype, please.

[@007Thanos007]

Well then, my lady, do I have a series for you! It's called "The Expanse," it's currently on Amazon Prime, and they don't talk down or cater to anyone whatsoever. Everyone in that entire damn show, from the most scrupulous to the most evil has a rich and checkered history, along with awesome character development. And the evil guys don't skimp on the evil, either! I highly recommend you watch that show sometime, that is if you like (smart) sci-fi!

[@glynch1263]

@@alexdenton9176 bud I'm sorry but the redpill isn't real and being a douchebag isn't going to get your pp touched.

[@steelfoot98]

The thing is that kylo being an immature, ineffective child was a really good starting point for the character. They just chose to never address it and grow from there. They decided to straight up just ignore it.

[@WafflezDay]

Every character in that trilogy had so much potential, and that's what upsets me the most about it.

[@blyat8832]

And to think he was whinny that Han and Leia were his parents, LITERALLY THE BEST PARENTS YOU COULD HAVE HAD IN THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE

[@andrew3606]

Yah that's LITERALLY his defining character trait and they drill it pretty hard in the first movie. Ironically, being compared to Darth Vader here in this way is playing to what the original idea for his character was supposed to be. Course they fucked it up in the end but yeah... it's not like there wasn't a reason for it.

[@jamie_d0g978]

Kylo and Finn could have been amazing characters... Its fucking sad

[@robertmaybeth3434]

Instead of coming across as scary and unpredictable, Kylo Ren seems like a spoiled Goth kid with a glow stick. Adam Driver is plenty good enough to bring any depth to the role the makers had chosen to give him and I felt he was a great choice as an actor for the role. But the film-makers had a bizarre social agenda that was more important than everything else, even the profits. Thanks to perverse and misguided reasons known only to them, they chose to deliberately turn Skywalker saga into preposterously stupid films that will be hated by generation after generation of movie viewers. Compared to episodes 4 through 6 they are a slap in the face to the original vision of the wondrous Star Wars universe that George Lucas created. No one would be the least bit sad if every single copy of the Skywalker movies were put through a crusher and totally vanished from the earth.

[@365ral]

This is one reason I LOVED Puss N Boots. Jack Horner has all the elements of a villain that ends up being more sympathetic. Instead, as the film's Jiminy Cricket described it, "You're an irredeemable MONSTER!" Death has all the elements of a scary villain, but he's more like a ruthless force of nature.

[@marenkendall7413]

That film was brilliant in a million ways.

[@mrvespuccia.k.ameganite1747]

not really, since his entire backstory is him being jealous of other fairy tale creatures being more popular than him even though he has nice parents who have a prosperous company that they pass down to him

[@LegendXD00]

I think you misunderstood what the op was talking about

[@silashurd3597]

@@marenkendall7413hell yeah it was!

[@machomandalf2893]

Puss in Boots was such an amazing movie, man. So damn good.

[@JeddieT]

_”...You’ll never get your audience to care about their struggle, because they don’t have one.”_ ...The Drinker nails it.

[@therevelistmovement4683]

As much, conversely, our civilization has bred a generation with no "struggle," so they've invented one in order to have sympathy given. You know, because they are empty.

[@JeddieT]

@@therevelistmovement4683 ...Very, very true. They cannot handle not having a religion, so they have to invent one. Enter: the religion of “wokeness” hand delivered to their feet. And all they have to do is believe without question; adhere with militant ignorance; and like any religion, fight ‘till their last breath against any who dare oppose. ...All so they no longer have to think.

[@therevelistmovement4683]

@@JeddieT Bear in mind, too, that THEIR faith is one which should be opposed, because it is a false faith. It is NOT organic. Yes, faith can be problematic, but it is usually out of a genuine misunderstanding and true ignorance of much, if anything, in the world. In some ways, it is like an unaware, innocent child; given time, it will learn. Even then, if you are up against the type of faith that does know something BEYOND itself and chooses to remain closed, it might just take a bit more of a struggle to reform it to see broader, but there is STILL a chance. However, with wokeness, it was bred from the echoes of inauthentic platitudes, a thickened shadow of nothing that was, from its very inception, meant to kill the human spirit. (Most other faiths "think" they are doing good, that is, until dumb people fuck it up.)

[@grantjohnson5785]

No, no... we didn't like Rey or Captain Marvel because we're sexist pigs. Come, let us flagellate ourselves incessantly, though we will never be pure and holy regardless of what we do. /s

[@bigorange2082]

Rey can swim in the Last Jedi. She grew up in the desert. But she can swim. She can pilot a boat in the Rise of Skywalker, in a storm that was supposed to be dangerous. Nope. Rey can do it with ease. Han flew the Falcon for decades. Rey fixes the compressor and saves them. Fixed the Falcon in a way that Han is impressed by, almost like Han couldn’t do it himself.

[@act2wasstronger182]

You just summarized all my major greivances about rey. That and her beating ren on her first time holding a lightsaber..

[@sethb3090]

I'm going to go on saying this is all fine if Rey ever had to come to terms with her power. You know, with being a Palpatine and all. Let's say that the Emperor has had a secret connection to her for years. He's helped her out whenever she needed it, because her triumphing and coming to Exegol is in fact his endgame. When she finds out, she now has to deal with being a Palpatine. Her final internal conflict, instead of being "lol nope, I'm a Skywalker, bro," can be actually dealing with that fact and proving that she can be an independent character and show that her name does not define her destiny.

[@jamesshelton308]

@@sethb3090 Yeah. Just imagine if she had said "Palpatine" at the end of episode 9. Or even "just Rey". Both would have been acceptable answers that wouldn't have pissed people off. It could have been her coming to terms with her heritage and then choosing to either accept it or leave it behind. Instead, she decides to pretend it never existed.

[@nigratruo]

@@sethb3090 Palpatine is dead, period. Reviving him is 100% stupid and nonsensical, it dissolves everything that happened in the original trilogy and makes it meaningless. But Palpatine is really dead, he fell down a LOOOONG ventilation shaft, plus then the death star that he was lying dead on the floor of exploded. Nope, not coming back from that. But the writers team was creatively bankrupt, they did not know what to write, so they recycled the biggest villain that Star Wars had, making it even more ridiculous.

[@Jebu911]

@@jamesshelton308 thats just putting a cherry on a pile of shit. Its still unedible.

[@bat32391]

There's a reason People cheered when Thanos punches the shit out of Captain Marvel

[@MasterChakra7]

Simply my favorite moment from Endgame.

[@AndreNitroX]

Facts

[@sabastyian]

@Brimstone Writers had to adhere to the character "traits" she had been given in her stand alone before they could just get rid of her for the rest of the movie to avoid most of the reasons mentioned by the drinker.

[@tdegrddeehjgd]

Yeah but then they decided to show her over power him before he had to use the power stone to overcome her. It's the same third party interventionism the drinker just highlighted. Was nice though, even for a moment.

[@tackyoptic]

Seriously, the whole theater groaned when she kamikazed the gunner ship and I couldn't stop laughing

[@erizzle67]

You missed something important about Darth Vader. When you mentioned his first appearance, we get set up for a guy that’s not f-ing around. I saw it in the theater when I was in elementary school. Darth Vader was the ultimate. It was so effective I didn’t realize until 2022 that he only had eight minutes of screen time in New Hope. Yep, eight minutes. And just a handful of lines, that’s it. In a film class last year we had to study New Hope and analyze every scene. Studying each scene I realized I wasn’t really seeing Darth much at all. It’s crazy that Lucas did all that character development with eight minutes.

[@frankrostko5769]

It's like they think the Joker is so iconic because he's funny. So they make funny villains hoping it will have the same effect. Completely missing the point...that the Joker is the one clown you wouldn't dare laugh at.

[@smorgasbord9940]

“...The one clown you don’t dare laugh at...” IDK if you got that somewhere or came up with it but nonetheless that has to be one of the coolest lines I have heard in a fat minute

[@nont18411]

How about another joke, Murray?

[@austinnowak5414]

This is spot on. The thing that makes Joker a good villain isn't that he makes jokes and is funny, its the fact that he is a ruthless psychopath that sees all of the terrible things be does as nothing more than jokes to be laughed at.

[@InfernosReaper]

Except laugh when he wants you to laugh. Otherwise.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJ_EiYhro7Z1eKs

[@randomantics3934]

unless he wanted you to

[@luispagan9170]

I'd rather see a weak woman overcome her shortcomings to defeat a stronger male character(Like cartoon Mulan) not a god woman beating a weakling "man" (Like in the Mulan remake)

[@lifeline.6144]

what song wrong about a woman being strong?

[@patrickkilduff4355]

Nope...no you wouldn't...you would complain no matter what the female character does...thats the game you guys play. You would just say, 'Oh, come on...there is no way that woman with no arms just KOed The Rock! What's this feminist BS!!'

[@ggt47]

Yes!

[@heru7182]

Soon as I saw Mulan slide down the exterior of the building and land without a scratch the movie was turned off.

[@Prince_of_Despair]

@@patrickkilduff4355 there is so much stupidity in this statement that its actually funny

[@josemanuelmunizherrera920]

I've always felt that it's because "heroes" are now the self-insert of the writer. One who often has an agenda. The villain then becomes the embodiment of what the writer hates. So, instead of Darth Vader we get whiny, screamy, tantrum-throwing pseudo nazis. Instead of Zuul, we get a sort of hateful and socially awkward incel. We get white men mansplaining their evil plans to the heroic women who have been given only x0.77 of the respect he has been given all their lives. All of which makes for really boring villains.

[@ty194]

This is spot on.

[@stormeaglegaming5395]

that sadly spot on

[@summushieremiasclarkson4700]

Based and psychology-pilled.

[@josemanuelmunizherrera920]

In the end, villains cannot be stronger than the hero, because the hero IS the writer, and is the embodiment of everything the writer despises. The villain must be beneath him, because he is the hero. Burdened with divine purpose and unquestionable moral authority. If the villain was given the chance to be stronger than the hero, or more just, or morally superior, then that would expose the faults of the hero, and hence, the writer himself. Something which, of course, cannot be allowed, as this might break the writers perception of himself, and force him to see his own failings and mistakes. If the writer has this flaws, then he is not perfect, and that is just beyond even being dreamed of. So, the villain must be brought low quick, and must be kept there. Evil, yet weak, and wrong, and despicable. A mewling thing to be stepped on and trampled by the hero... the writer himself, personified within the story.

[@NinjaRunningWild]

*It's called a Mary Sue.* There's MANY examples of them across media. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

[@SoCoolScience]

1980s villain; (Vader kills someone's and then says) Apology accepted 2020's villain; if you dont do what I say Imma tell my mommy

[@magtinfal7908]

1970s*

[@hermes667]

It would be at least funny if his mommy shows up the next scene and kick the heroes ass for a while.

[@Joetino]

@@magtinfal7908 That quote was said in 1980

[@magtinfal7908]

@Joetino Official Yeah but the villain was made in the 70s

[@oniplus4545]

@@hermes667 and then there's steppenwolf's "mommy is calling"

[@ssj4broly974]

It's odd that we are judged for disliking these characters because of their gender when it's the writers that clearly have an issue with gender.

[@anhondacivic6541]

It's like the writers has lost the ability to write a good female protagonist over the years

[@arturama8581]

They don't. They're just afraid of Snowflakes marching!

[@elongatedmanforever1252]

@@anhondacivic6541 Exactly its sad.

[@elongatedmanforever1252]

@@arturama8581 That's why they will be forever trapped in a repetition of failure.

[@cumonurface]

it's an agenda

[@Just2532yd]

“The better the villain, the better the movie” -Hitchcock

[@chadpowell1832]

I am your 69th like I’m just marking this milestone

[@TheProphetJoshua]

Saboteurs - best villain speech ever

[@25019719]

The villain should drive the story. That's what made Infinity War so good.

[@richardhockey8442]

What's the gist of the film Unbreakable - heros are defined by the villains they fight who are usually their dark reflection. How can you take a hero seriously when their villains are weak, unstable, inept dishmops.

[@designanddirection]

If you are looking for good villains in comic book popcorn fare you are looking in the wrong place.

[@DaDitka]

14:00 This is why Sarah Connor is such a great character in the first two Terminator movies. She went up against antagonists who were seemingly unstoppable, and, with the help of her friends, was able to defeat them. She didn't need the writers to make her look like an unstoppable juggernaut going against a paper tiger, like Rey did with Kylo Ren.

[@blindeye1258]

That, and she didn't start out as the badass hero. She had excellent character development and became the warrior that we saw in T2.

[@mykhailoskachkov5946]

@@blindeye1258 the moment in T2 when she sees Arnold for the first time (in this particular movie) is absolute masterpiece. this is where cinema makes you _believe_.

[@takatamiyagawa5688]

There's also a scene where one of the staff licks her (sexual assault?) while she's completely bound to her bed. Later, she picks the locks, escapes her cell, and beats him brutally. He lacked strength and skill, but what made him dangerous was his position of authority, and the way he was able to abuse it so blatantly. Perhaps it's the same with Dolores Umbridge. Not the most skilled user of magic, but the efficiency with which she was able to use her position of authority against students and other teachers made her intimidating anyway.

[@Damianweibler]

Or Ellen Ripley Though maybe as aliens they would still be able to beat her up today?

[@kyspace1024]

Actually the villain in Dark Fate isn't that bad, but that's the only good thing I'll say about that movie.

[@infjt6965]

“Easily brushed aside when the script decides it’s time for them to lose” is the best articulated point about how disingenuous modern film villains have become. Villains are formidable, there is a reason why Darth Vader walks slow and it’s because he moves for no one.

[@tailedgates9]

Interestingly enough, the first Thor movie strikes a perfect balance by having Thor be emotionally immature but stronger than Loki, who is more composed and knows how to manipulate things in his favor. It's more a subtle relationship between the protagonist and antagonist.

[@noahwiley2846]

Yeah Thor grows throughout his movies and avengers movies. Loki also grow as a character, he's also getting a new series now.

[@mumandubula1788]

@Winter Green Yeah endgame messed him up but in the Thor trilogy he grew into full godhood.

[@thechroniclegamer4285]

Loki is the best character

[@mihaifazacas7133]

@Winter Green I mean he got depressed like anyone would after failing to save half of the universe.

[@25019719]

I like Loki, but he gets owned by basically everyone. Think about it. When was the last time he actually won a fight? Yeah he just about beats Cap in the first Avengers movie, gets out thought by Black Widow in the same film. Then what? He gets outsmarted and and fought by virtually everyone after that. Beaten by Sif, Dr Strange, Valkyrie, Thanos, even Jane slaps him with no repercussions. Total let down of what could have been a great character. I don't even want to watch the TV show.

[@kasbakgaming]

You know, it didn't occur to me until watching this, but the sequel trilogy could have been a lot better if, in the end, Rey did turn to the dark side and Kylo turned out to be the hero that stopped her. Through the entire trilogy, Rey is written to be this unstoppable force; she accomplishes all of her goals with virtually no struggle and defeats Kylo multiple times over. Though skilled due to his prior training, Kylo starts out youthful and inexperienced, exemplified by his fits of rage and poor tactics. If he was shown to have taken each defeat handed to him and learn from them, tempering him with wisdom and experience, while Rey just continued to breeze through everything because that's just who she is, this would make Kylo's story the hero's journey while Rey is the opponent he struggles to overcome. Then at the end, because Rey hasn't actually learned anything because she's never been challenged, ends up unable to force back the Emperor and gets taken over, Kylo steps forward in an act of defiance to embrace the light and redeem himself, and finally is able to defeat her. If you still wanted Rey to be the ultimate victor, you could have Kylo defeating her involve sacrificing himself in some way so that it expels the Emperor and prevents him from taking her over again, maybe using that Force diad thing they made up, and then carry on as is, with Rey victorious but realizing 'Hey, I might need to actually work at this Jedi stuff' as she wanders off and setting up for future story lines for her. This would make Luke's involvement make more sense, because of course he didn't actually teach Rey anything, she was never his student; Kylo was. It would subvert expectations, actually flipping the roles on who's the hero and who's the villain, and reinforce the theme they were hinting at that bloodlines don't matter, the path you choose for yourself does. It wouldn't fix everything of course, but it would help somewhat.

[@cara-seyun]

That’s where I thought it was going too

[@LoremasterYnTaris]

The problem is that what you described requires competent writers who want to tell a good story, and all Disney cares about is appealing to the lowest common denominator. Ah well, at least we have dedicated fans to rewrite them.

[@asain3586]

Oh look, a good idea. We cant have that here

[@sectorgovernor]

I agree, Rey Palpatine would have been more interesting character

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

One problem with this plot: she is a woman, he is a man...

[@Brandon_Powell]

A great villain not only opposes the main character but also exposes and eventually burns away the main character's flaws.

[@bemotivated8443]

That’s why Joker and Batman are great

[@MisterPuck]

Usually by exploiting them for their own gain, forcing the hero to confront those flaws in order avoid making any more costly mistakes.

[@Brandon_Powell]

@@bemotivated8443 Precisely.

[@Brandon_Powell]

@@MisterPuck This is going to be a bit of a weird pull but the TV show The Following was a great example of that. That show has its fair share of flaws but the dynamic between the main character and the main villain was electric.

[@shadowofthenorthstar989]

Those type of villains are my favorites

[@yesthatismyname]

I'm using your videos as writing advice. Your way of explaining things has really helped me understand what traps to avoid, and how to provide a certain suspense that would validate the motivations of my heroes and villains. You might be a reviewer, but your complaints have a depth than modern journalism can't match. In short, thank you.

[@mikoto7693]

I’m doing the same, honestly.

[@BennettsShed]

Drinker is also an author.

[@yesthatismyname]

@@BennettsShed HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THAT 🤦‍♀️ thanks for pointing that out lol

[@generaltom6850]

One more thing about Vader that I find really scary is that he never runs, so if you run away from him you always fear that he is gonna be waiting for you ahead of you

[@bewmdogg]

shit man you called it. that happens in the Obi Wan Kenobi show according to reviewers like Disparu

[@PhilipDWilliamson]

Didn’t they do this in Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order?

[@moxxiiscarlett7141]

@@PhilipDWilliamson oh yeah. Just when you think you've lost him, you open a door, and Death himself is standing on the other side, blade already swinging.

[@ahmetrefikeryilmaz4432]

@@bewmdogg obi wan was a shitshow where vader got obliterated by obi-wan who should be as powerful against him as beatrice was to pai-mei, again...

[@alienlife7754]

In the Star Wars games ( which are really bad so don’t get them ) they made it so Vader can’t run. The logic being that he doesn’t have to. He’s Vader.

[@undertaker9991]

True. Modern Villians are more like anti or tragic heroes.

[@bombomos]

We legit villains again

[@bemotivated8443]

That’s why I am excited for Dune and Venom 2 Carnage

[@unicronthedestroyer8016]

Well not all of them. I think people went for a more realistic sympathetic approach to villains. I'm ok with that and I'm ok with the occasional darkseid level evil character

[@bengale9977]

@@unicronthedestroyer8016 I think Marvel has ruined villains by making it so that the hero ha to sass them from the very beginning.

[@Legion849]

@@bemotivated8443 Venom 1 was a joke but decent enough to get a pass.

[@vanillabryce2965]

It’s crazy how count dooku and Darth maul who barely have any screen time are better villains than any of the sequel villains

[@pixel3042]

@Musical Matt Why would you call clone wars terrible but rebels really really good? Your logic doesn't add up.

[@iamacatperson7226]

@Matthew van Duyn why is clone wars terrible but rebels really really good?

[@joeblox8773]

@Matthew van Duyn i think your a little confused

[@tonyfendex2558]

That's true!!!

[@LordVader1094]

@@matthewvanduyn15 Lol imagine calling TCW terrible and Rebels "really really good". Sounds on the verge of being bait.

[@florentdevier]

Kylo becoming the hero would have been great. But still we would have expected more character development from Rey, cause she felt dragged by the plot more than anything else. Yet, yes, imagining a shakepearian tale of a doomed hero that killed jedis + his father (which is also an historic fan favorite) whom redeems himself to "save the galaxy" almost give me goosebumps. Plus what a material for future possible sequels : having a hero that's actually done too many bad stuff to be forgiven, and has to live haunted by what he's done.

[@_scabs6669]

This is what I want for Riddler in the The Batman trilogy. He's basically a Robin character, a poor orphan who is inspired by Batman, and he already gestured toward imagining he was Batman's partner. To see Paul Dano bring his Eddie Nash to redemption and truly team up with Batman, to join the side of good and finally begin to fight the right way, would be unbelievably powerful. Sadly this will definitely not be allowed to happen.

[@AffyisAffy]

They really could have made a tragic character out of him, a la Jasper in secret of NIMH. Trying to wound/kill the big bad after already being struck down but trying to assist Rey as his last dying redemptive act, while whispering, "I'm sorry... for everything" then passing away. Is it predictable, yes, but worlds better than what we got

[@LemuriaGames]

"more" ? It would've been better if there had been ANY character development at all.

[@_scabs6669]

@@LemuriaGames characters development is over rated. Did Hamlet have character development?

[@---iv5gj]

If we got to see Kylo's character development from a weak impulsive angry child that always loses to Ray over the movies to become a worthy villain who worked hard and sacrificed alot to become powerful to pursue his goals, then it would have been a wonderful villain arc. like he becomes stronger everytime he loses to Ray, and finally becomes the villain he strifed to be

[@AkuTenshiiZero]

The thing about Kylo Ren is that I was completely on board for a Sith who really leaned into the rage aspect of the dark side. They could have taken those outbursts and made them progressively worse, made him this unstoppable berserker in battle. Hell, I wouldn't even have minded if he still had moments of weakness and regret between rages, to show his extreme emotional instability. But the problem with that kind of villain is that they can't also be a competent leader, he would have needed a calculating master to direct his rage. Set him up an avatar of pure violence being manipulated by someone else. They could have even still done a redemption arc. But instead, we get him being this whiny child. He never goes into a total rage, he just has tantrums. He never really uses that anger to give him strength. He tries to be a leader and ends up making horrible decisions. We end up with a character who has no real reason to even exist.

[@thesussybaka7733]

Something like Darth Malgus then?

[@TheSeth256]

I was sure they were going this route, with Snoke being the puppet-master.

[@borisfrlic]

As a Sith, tapping into your emotions is essential. “Peace is a lie, there is only passion.” That said, that doesn’t mean losing control of them. Kylo Ren is not Sith. He’s an angry force user with a clumsy red lightsaber that only a child would think is cool. Totally shit character.

[@davidcox3076]

@@TheSeth256 That would have been a better story. Snoke keeps him on a leash and sets him loose to run rampant when needed.

[@WildRiverCard]

Maul?

[@TravisBroski]

Honestly, Kylo Ren had sooooo much potential to be a striking villain. He definitely had the look, and his character at the start kinda felt like Zuko's (immature, trying to be something, etc.), but nothing became of it. He was written to be poured down the drain and kiss the feet of the Ma-Rey Sue protagonist.

[@petermj1098]

Kylo Ren has no real motivation to be bad. Zuko actually did because when he was young his father her humiliated him and physically scarred him when trying to please him, Azula psychologically torturing him as a child, and his mom disappears believing it was his fault. All Kylo Ren has a vague “he had darkness in him” and accidentally thought his uncle will kill him...and that’s it. I’m pretty sure you need a better explanation and more things than just that.

[@TravisBroski]

@@petermj1098 You have a point, but like a ton of people are saying, he needed better writing. He should've had a better reason why he turned dark and had some more depth. It's just a shame he had such a poor character with such a good look.

[@monicaaboites5053]

@@TravisBroski Not because Adam Driver is a good actor means that his character have potencial. He's like Rey, without motivation to be a villain more beyond of " the darkness inside of him". The weakness of Kylo Ren happend because they wanted to replicate everything from the original triology instead to make something original. And read the comics of Kylo Ren is also a waste of time because his oirigins are similat to Anakin's. A villain interesting in Star Wars universe with convicinal motivations? Dooku, Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Asajj Ventress, Moff Gideon, even General Pryde. And from another universe? Griffith, Johan Liebert, Naraku, Light Yagami.

[@vinslungur]

Also Adam Driver is such a good actor and a nice fit for the role. The writers let us all down. I'm so sorry.

[@GeorgeMonet]

But the difference is that Zuko was never really the villain. It was ok that Zuko kept losing because he was never Aang's real test. Rather Aang was always Zuko's test to see if he could move past his need to win his father's affection.

[@civilprotection3114]

We live in a world where people are rewarded for barely trying, these movies are the wet dreams of those people who don’t want to hit any bumps on the road or an obstacle but gain everything.

[@terrylandess6072]

It's cheaper to hire people without talent whom will do ANYTHING it takes to get a job way above their paygrade. Movies used to be High level dining - an event for those to attend, now it's just McDonalds.

[@v.dembsey3355]

Correct. No reward based on merit. They just want it handed to them. Batwoman's new season apparently opened with a homeless girl finding the suit, putting it on, and having special abilities. No back story tie-in, no training or discipline, just unearned abilities. That or they cheat, we see them cheat, and the system hands them the trophy anyway. You're about to see a lot of people quit playing in many ways.

[@rockyp3917]

Pretty much sums it up

[@katyamileya7194]

@@v.dembsey3355 "They cheat, we see them cheat, and the system hands them the trophy anyway." Are you talking about Joe Biden?

[@v.dembsey3355]

@@katyamileya7194 No, Big Brother Google said that's not what happened. These are not the droids you're looking for.

[@dubliners0999]

I just found this channel a few days ago and weirdly, you've been spot on about everything so far. I teach introductory film at a college and I just WISH I could show your vids to my college students.. but then someone would whine to my boss and my union would have to hire a lawyer... I guess what I'm saying is that although people *say* that college professors have autonomy and academic freedom, we don't. So there's that...

[@ironheadedDoF]

You have academic freedom... with a catch. You are free to accept the party line, and expected to do it with autonomy. It's called "surrender"

[@jonnyk5632]

The worst thing is that Kylo Ren still is by far the most interesting character in the sequel...

[@dragonoverlord_2379]

I dislike the truth in this statement.

[@troy242621]

I think Finn was pretty interesting, but I still get your point. Rey could've been a great character, but she just started off with outrageous power and never started off weak the way Luke did. She never actually lost and never actually grew, and didn't really have much of an internal conflict either.

[@margarethafalco63]

Agree

[@jasonbarnes6568]

best part about the series

[@Coinjuggler336]

@@troy242621 I agree and disagree with your comment. I found Finn interesting in the force awakens especially his backstory and the way he betrayed the first order and he also had potential to be a Jedi knight, but instead he became a comedic relief in the last Jedi and rise of Skywalker, all of the potential Finn had was thrown out the window and he also needed to rely on other characters and kept getting his ass saved over and over. Ryan Johnson and J.J. Abrams fucked up his character and wasted his potential. (Edit: Also yeah Rey was also wasted and Kathleen Kennedy wanted Rey with no flaws and made her never go through trials and hardships and never made her struggle which made her uninteresting and made the audience question why were suppose to root for her, she had no flaws no personality she didn't go through any hardships or struggles which ultimately made her bland boring and forgettable.

[@clydemarshall8095]

No, Vader didn’t stop a blaster bolt midair. He just deflected them off an outstretched hand like a true badass.

[@clockworklemon9243]

Literally tanked the hit like it wasn't a problem.

[@viddork]

He wasn't talking about Vader, he was talking about Ren.

[@clydemarshall8095]

@@viddork I invite you to reread my comment.

[@viddork]

@@clydemarshall8095 Oddly, it seems to say exactly the same thing it said the first time I read it. More importantly, I relistened to the Drinker's comment to which you were responding, and now see my error.

[@tamashorvath224]

And then theres Maul who just flicked his hand and the bolts changed direction while not even standing up from his throne.

[@TheManFromWaco]

Eowyn from "The Lord of the Rings" is a female character who scores the greatest single-combat victory by any human in the entire saga. Not one of the male heroes scores a one-on-one win on par with defeating Sauron's right hand man, the immortal Witch King (admittedly, she had help from Merry, but while his heroism made victory possible, Eowyn still had to actually go out and win- she had to kill a freaking dragon before she could even take a shot at the SOB). And she does this all while protecting the body of King Theoden. Protecting the body of a your fallen king from capture and mutilation was the most noble thing an Anglo-Saxon warrior could do, so she is excelling in a variety of traditionally male roles all without magically making the men incompetent, sacrificing her femininity, or coming across as a "Strong Female Character". And she was written by a deeply conservative Catholic man with zero interest in any feminist agenda. Oh, the delicious irony.

[@milesrout]

@@blakejohnson3864 I think the commenter meant "Strong Female Character" in the sense of the modern cinematic stereotype of a strong female character, hence the scare quotes.

[@johnmorgan6316]

@@blakejohnson3864 you must not have got the context. Nowadays people write female characters just to be female characters, with no real depth. Eowyn’s line was in response to the WitchKing, who said that no man could kill him

[@fractalelf7760]

It was because he was a deeply Catholic man that he fairly treated the character and women well. No irony in the least, Catholics very much respect women considering our respect for Mary as an example and Eve both.

[@TheManFromWaco]

@@fractalelf7760 Perhaps I should have clarified, I meant ironic in comparison to the currently widespread narrative that the only way to make a female character "strong and capable" is to make her an aggressive, hyper-macho, disagreeable jerk who is always openly declaring how she "don't need no man" and is fighting "the traditional patriarchy". The irony is that a man who "should" be a stereotypical woman-hater in the minds of the Pink Haired People wrote far more nuanced and inspiring women than anything in their feminist screed.

[@davidspiller7977]

@@TheManFromWaco That's not a widespread narrative tho.

[@Ricky_Baldy]

Gul Dukat is one of the best and most complete villains to ever exist and was portrayed so well by Marc Alaimo. Gul Dukat, while evil and conflicted, thought he was the hero and saw himself as heroic. He was the perfect foil for Sisko.

[@cjrogers9060]

I think "Lazy Town" was the last mainstream TV show with believable villains.

[@iamaphantom6905]

Underrated comment.

[@bobsmudger3979]

😂 Robbie Rotten 😂

[@misterdewott8766]

"Who were you expecting? SPORTA-FLOP???"

[@darrensmith8730]

My man, Robbie Rotten! 😉

[@avigil7583]

dude, you killed me.

[@michaelfranciotti3900]

This is why Alita was a better female hero. She got FUCKED up, and even needed help from her male counterparts (gasp!), which made it more satisfying seeing her overcome her enemies later.

[@fr0ck360]

One of the rare modern female protagonist that has been done well besides from Ripley, sarah, etc.

[@danyyilbun6736]

Yup, especially because it have her plenty of chance to grow

[@cobo1316]

Alita is such a great example.

[@flyinggeneral]

True that. Especially if you read the whole manga series.

[@davedave8219]

One if my all time favourite movies. She was a fantastic lead chatacter

[@izenheimreborn6390]

Modern villains are really taking a Team Rocket outlook these days. Showing up before our protagonists, saying some speech about them winning, then promptly being mocked and thrown aside for the next episode

[@universallyepicnarwhal9102]

Kylo Ren is blasting off agaaaaiiiinnnn *tinkle star sound thingimajig plays*

[@izenheimreborn6390]

@@universallyepicnarwhal9102 Prepare for trouble! Make it double. To protect the world from devastation! To unite all peoples within our nation! To denounce the evils of truth and love! To extend our reach to the stars above! Snoke! Kylo! Team First Order blast off at the speed of sublight! Surrender now or prepare to fight! Palpatine that’s right!

[@Yoobster]

it's even funnier when you consider that team rocket is more of a gag and do a better job as a villain, than all these feminist movies.

[@bartsussygaming487]

@@Yoobster yeah at least they're memorable

[@thegreatgonzales6813]

And yet James is debatably the most beloved Pokémon character of all time

[@brysimm404]

The fact that so many of these terrible villains are portrayed by actors who have done excellent work playing roles in other projects proves the writing is definitely what matters most!

[@Ob1sdarkside]

"Dumb, illogical command decisions and punishes people for asking logical questions" so kylo ren is rian Johnson

[@thefilmwhisperer1105]

Did anyone even bother to ask RJ a "logical question" during production of Episode 8? Such as "how the phuck do you even call this a legitimate sequel to Episode VII?!"

[@scorptarget]

😂😂😂

[@danieldosso2455]

I lost a braincell reading what you typed

[@Mumbamumba]

@Daniel Dosso Doesn't matter, you still have two more.

[@MinuteLeech2]

@@thefilmwhisperer1105 TBF Episode 7 makes no sense either. Why the hell are we still doing rebels vs the empire with death stars, no jedi or republic 30 years after ROTJ.

[@RN1441]

The people making creative decisions aren't emotionally mature enough to conceive a competent and powerful villain, nor a protagonist that has to struggle.

[@dunringill1747]

Agreed

[@redpillnibbler4423]

I agree.Neither have they the imagination.

[@vinzcastro9304]

I'm not emotionally mature enough to handle that when I write too.... but in my offense, I'm not a grown adult, professional writer nor do I get paid for what I do.

[@Mr.Goodkat]

@@vinzcastro9304 Never put your "maturity" levels down due to how long you've lived, emotional maturity doesn't care about social demographics it can and does show up in anyone and very few older than you actually have it, most fake it.

[@keenfire8151]

In 20 years the villains are going to act and look like the main actor from Robinhood: Men in Tights.

[@Adamguy2003]

Funny you should mention it: His actor, Cary Elwes, played the EEEEEVIIIIILLLL misogynist main villain in 2019's revolting and unwatchable 'Black Christmas' remake- in- name- only. So, I guess it's started already!

[@keenfire8151]

@@Adamguy2003 NOOOOO!

[@aratay3117]

I AM NOT A MERRY MAN

[@Subhumanslug]

@@Adamguy2003 He's woke now. Maybe he always has been. Either way, total douche.

[@Adamguy2003]

@@Subhumanslug If so, it's a shame. I met him at a con a couple years ago, and he seemed like a pleasant guy.

[@LIONHEARTE944]

Lest we forget behind the mask buried in there is Anakin Skywalker which intensifies the intrigue for Vader tenfold

[@stevencompton1486]

Until we met him in the prequels lol

[@LemuriaGames]

We didn't know nor care in the original trilogy. He's Luke's father is the extent we figure out the history, and that's enough to make it work. The prequels took away from that instead of adding to it.

[@tripleoo0]

@@LemuriaGames Granted, the prequels were expanded on in some ways and retconned a bit in others, and eventually, Anakin Skywalker does become one of the most fascinating characters in Star Wars lore, but you're absolutely correct. For the purposes of what Darth Vader is, Anakin's story is not necessary beyond knowing he's Luke's father. He's so intimidating that it's easy to forget that he's very rarely the commanding officer at any point during the original trilogy. When he's not doing Sidious' bidding, he's on Tarkin's grounds, independent from the chain of command. But there's never any question that he's the most powerful person in the room. That's Vader's mystique, in my opinion.

[@OwnerOfTheCosmos]

@@stevencompton1486To be fair, young Vader was pretty good in Shattered Glass.

[@kaksspl]

"Exploding with childish displays of emotion whenever things don't go his way" ironically describes the people who cause this problem.

[@savary5050]

Hollow knight!

[@kasrkin100]

Same as we're want to escape "boring" reality Ask ourself Why we create fiction world just to recovery our mental health because of "perfect society" we call it, men why we need imagination in the first place i rather life in Grave or place of welcome people non exist.... God is right we really are mistake

[@Mr.Ekshin]

@@kasrkin100 - Wow... Congrats! You win the internet grand prize for the most incoherent pile of drivel to ever flow from a keyboard.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

Yoooo Hollow Knight fans

[@savary5050]

@@Ismael-kc3ry MY FAMILY

[@Mercy_Aint_Safe_In_India]

"What Happened To Our Villains?" They went into politics and journalism.

[@mkultra-meltdown6848]

Top comment!

[@blizzardgaming7070]

With their gender studies degree

[@51dodoc]

Too bad they had to abandon any kind of charisma and class behind them to make that move...

[@Talentlesssss]

Yes, because the original star wars had no politics what so ever.

[@51dodoc]

@@Talentlesssss I think you missed the joke mate.

[@kingscrump]

John Wick killed everyone, no discrimination. Just remember that.

[@D0NU75]

and so did Tony Montana, no more Many, no more Gina and no more Soza

[@putalover4519]

Only death that was wrong was his adorable dog's death. 🤬

[@ty194]

That's because it's more of an indie film that became popular over and above what was expected than a traditional Hollywood controlled blockbuster. Don't for one minute think that the powers that be haven't got the franchise in their crosshairs.

[@AudioGAWD]

And it makes sense and was glorious

[@Bb-xq7gk]

There was that one guy in the first film he let live... The Russian bodyguard

[@xSilentVeterenx]

If not for the trinity of Georges writing, David Prowses physical portrayal, and finally James Earl Jones voice bringing out Vaders eloquent menace. I don't think Vader would have become one of the greatest Villains in cinema.

[@curfuffle7420]

So if Vader wasnt Vader he wouldnt be vader?..

[@acefire6422]

So basically if he wasn’t written, acted and voiced as he was, he would’ve been different and therefore potentially not as good? Thanks for that mate, what’s your next observation - that if your auntie has bollox she’d be your uncle?

[@HeelvsBabyface]

Brilliant

[@IanAlderige]

Wow, 75 likes for a single word. No wonder why main stream media is so afraid of KZbinrs lol.

[@spongederp160]

Hey cool to see u here!

[@redfordreddington8834]

@@IanAlderige what’s there to be afraid of for them?

[@IanAlderige]

@@redfordreddington8834 Bankruptcy??? KZbinrs are starting to get better ratings than mainstream media. Hope that answers your question.

[@soyuzdavillan721]

@@IanAlderige 2 days later and more than 500 likes and counting Ian!!

[@impeterator]

Remember the outrage when Apocalypse choked mistique and everybody lost their minds? Oh no ,the villain does an evil thing!

[@oneandonlysound3453]

but then it was totally ok to straight up murder mystique, Charles to not seem like he was grieving at all, and because it was done by a woman (never-mind it made no sense to any timeline/canon/etc to do).

[@raulmachuca9047]

lost their minds because the victim was a woman. had he were gutting, skinning and beheading a white straigth man nobody would mind

[@Spearra]

I was watching some reactions of a anime called Redo of the Healer. One of the Antagonists is a extremely evil princess and despite what she did being completely indefensible, everyone freaked out that she wasn't let off easily and got punished SEVERELY. So even if it is a female villain, simps gonna simp. Can't say sympathize without saying simp I guess!

[@mr.dystopian5554]

They didn't say shit when they had Angel Dust choking out Weasel in Deadpool.

[@redpillnibbler4423]

He was definately one scary piece of work.

[@brysimm404]

It’s so gratifying that Thanos is ultimately defeated by Iron Man (instead of Scarlet Witch or Capt Marvel), because that is what serves the story best - which is what should ALWAYS matter most!

[@gregorylagrange]

Except they had Iron Man give up his life to do it so that probably Iron Man's place will now be taken over by a female.

[@scottherdliska372]

#THANOSWASRIGHT

[@Drums_of_Liberation]

Honestly, Scarlet Witch Killing Thanos wouldn't have been bad either considering unlike the majority of everyone else she doesn't get her happy ending at the end of Endgame. She basically returns to life and still loses everything to the point she retracts herself into a 50s sitcom.

[@dhilipans5412]

@@Drums_of_Liberation but if Wanda vision took place before endgame I would have agreed but let's see how the series turns out .

[@dhilipans5412]

@@scottherdliska372 yes to some extent

[@render1802]

I'm a woman, and I hate every last thing about the politics around entertainment media today. Every point you make drives home.

[@ladyduchess6233]

Kylo Ren's whole "conflicted angry dramatic teenager trying to be something he's not" thing isn't even bad. That's actually a pretty fleshed out flaw to have, especially knowing what his past is. But considering it was used to lift Rey up instead of turning Ben into a compelling character, it just makes him look pathetic.

[@michaelcameron76]

"Has anyone seen my zit cream!!! Arggg.! Ill kill you all!"

[@twinkles190]

Yeah, he wants to be an evil dude (maybe because that's what Luke painted him as anyway), but he almost falls to the light side constantly. This could have made him a very unstable compelling villain who commits exceedingly horrible acts because he wants to fuel his own self-loathing and prove that he totally is this evil dude, while he actually isn't at heart. However, because he forms no threat (like Vader did in ESB) he doesn't feel like someone with his own agenda and history. He shouldn't have lost so much to Rey, it's a disservice to both their characters.

[@herheartbeats5727]

​@Mister Twinkles Right, he could have been turned into an interesting character. I almost hoped that after the middle of EP8, when he kills Snoke, then his red guards with Rey's help. Make him either understand his errors, and come back to the bright side, or be colder and smarter, understanding than he's now free to go his own way as a Galactic overlord. . But this never happened. Sad...

[@werecat9834]

Kylo should have been the "unstable mass shooter" type and Rey the unfortunate--but compassionate--server of justice, bearing witness to an imploding aimless young soul.

[@purefoldnz3070]

and General Hugs like something out of a Scooby Doo cartoon.

[@mycricketingworld5328]

One of the rare good villains these days is Homelander. He is a really good villain for sure. Strong, intimidating, ruthless, unpredictable.

[@DanKaz92]

He's absolutely terrifying. Knowing at any moment he could murder pretty much anyone and everyone without anyone being able to stop him is what makes the show so tense.... Unfortunately they fucked this up in S3 where half the "Heroes" were less concerned with his infinite power and murder potential and would rather not have a plan to deal with him instead of working with a less powerful villain to help stop him. Kind of got to the point where I'm now rooting for Homelander to kill everyone but leave Starlight alive so she can realise what a dumb twat she's being. Same with MM. Loved both of their characters up until the halfway point in S3 where they just became moany, emotional morons.

[@Simonethedog]

What is so good about this show is that they dont really get political but when they do its to laugh about the absurdity of both sides

[@brynjones3530]

@@Simonethedog What an odd take. The Boys is always political. One of the villains is literally called stormfront, They riff on AOC and Homelander is a metaphor for a section of the American political system. it's hard to find a political subject that 'The Boys' doesn't have something to say about.

[@Simonethedog]

@@brynjones3530 what i meant is that they dont take any sides they just show how each sides are ridiculus in their own way

[@Simonethedog]

@@brynjones3530 what i meant is that they dont take any sides they just show how each sides are ridiculus in their own way

[@cringefairy2687]

"What would Captain Marvel be without Brie Larson?" My fucking sides, man lmao

[@mancodelepanto2696]

Imagine this: Captain Marvel, interpreted by Emily Blunt. I'd watch that, because she can play the "though girl" character great! Doesn't even matter if the story turns out to be garbage, is she had even an ounce of charisma in her character I would've enjoyed the movie. Instead, we got a character whose only highlight is getting beaten by Thanos in Endgame.

[@vinslungur]

@@mancodelepanto2696 Emily Blunt MUST join the MCU one way or another as a badass character. If you're not seeing it then go watch Edge of Tomorrow. And she's oh so beautiful... Just wow.

[@jaffarebellion292]

@@mancodelepanto2696 I'd still prefer Katee Sackhoff, but she would deserve a better movie than Marvel wanted to make.

[@paladin8052]

Is that a personal attack or something?

[@DMF121]

👏👏👏

[@countfrackula6707]

What happened to our villains? They're our 'heroes' now. The CW's Batwoman comes to mind as a specific example. So many of the new-generation "heroes" don't just have flawed personalities, they have the personality of an anti-villain ... or worse.

[@thomasn3882]

Weak argument. Pro wrestling has been pulling that stunt for decades now. Heel turns hero with the flip of a switch, and the reverse.

[@amicableenmity9820]

They'll call evil good and good evil

[@fromthecheapseats7126]

@@thomasn3882He’s right. Characters like Rey, Captain Marvel, ROP Galadriel, and Billy Butcher have similar mindsets to Anakin Skywalker in the prequels, except that the narrative validates them.

[@TheArchangel911]

Before watching any Drinker video, I always take a shot and hit that thumbs up.

[@Azrael_Equinox]

That's how it's done lads.

[@B0mber44]

I always feel like I’ve taken a shot after watching a Drinker video.

[@chadpowell1832]

As you should

[@nephithegreat1335]

Yo, nice Jorden Peterson vids btw

[@hp5898]

Good man

[@yourstruly4817]

You either die a villain or you live long enough to see your character get woke and get broke.

[@fairpoints7233]

@Cat Egorical no one said you couldn't 😉

[@psykloneja]

🤣🤣🤣

[@TheKing-qz9wd]

Off the cliff I go. They won't take my work from me!

[@merlyworm]

@Cat Egorical The problem isnt that Captain Marvel wasnt fairly accurate comics wise. In the comics Captain Marvel IS among the most powerful 'mortal' characters. The problem is that in the comics, she's mentally broken. Rogue stole her powers and mind, and recovering from that was a HUGE slog for her. it took her YEARS, and even then she wasnt really 'all right'. She struggled, and won through. In the movie, she STARTS a beast, but with a small memory hole. And doesnt have to do much to overcome it. The movie really wasnt bad, it was just....... meh. Edit: mortal, not moral. Thats a pretty bad typo.

[@bUll3t4MyVAlentineee]

What does anyones personal preferrence have to do with getting woke!

[@johnjozefowicz2022]

I like what Jordan Peterson said about how we see the villain as the necessary shadow in all of us, so a lame villain is actually insulting the audience

[@sunso1991]

That man is very wise and Brave

[@brianwright9514]

I was going to say from the start, the villains are no longer villains. The heros have become the villains.

[@koalabandit9166]

If that is true, we come up with nonsensical villains when we are incapable of seeing the evil within ourselves (which our modern self-righteous and self-absorbed movie audiences are).

[@gromheat]

well said, it also makes alot of sense.

[@Isiahanimates]

Villians actually posses most things a Good man should be when it comes to mindset. Focused on a Goal, and try to get it with logical reason and power regardless of what people say. New villians are as if they are mocking modern men: fat middle aged Man no true goals, Huge anger issues and Constantly complaining about what they want and not going through with it because our hero is the woman and woman are good strong and capable. Weak villians is whoever is writing these lame villians is a personal attack on Men in my opinion.

[@robertmoats1890]

This is my favorite video of yours. Every word is absolute inescapable truth. And unfortunately, the more pampered society becomes, the more it becomes offended with, and the less flexible our stories become. We are headed toward a very boring inoffensive future.

[@supersonic620]

Vince Gilligan once said in an interview that “smart is good, dramatically”. When talking about Gus having to lose to Walter, he knew Gus had to lose but didn’t want him to lose in the 11th hour by all of a sudden getting stupid. He said he knew Gus had to make a slightly wrong move but didn’t want to it come from stupidity. “I cant think of a movie where I like it where the bad guy gets dumb. I want the bad guy to be smart so the good guy has to be even smarter”.

[@ty194]

Very good point. Spot on. Modern wokeness doesn't understand or even care to understand this.

[@Xehanort10]

He did it right since Gus died because Walt exploited his obsession with killing Hector personally not because of stupidity.

[@aaronait-touati8518]

@@Xehanort10 Exactly. Gus' only weakness was his emotional obsession with torturing Hector, which was understandable considering their shared history.

[@ArtemisKing2468]

"I want the bad guy to be smart so the good guy has to be even smarter." Someone should have told that to the writer and director of How to Train Your Dragon 3.

[@Xehanort10]

@@ArtemisKing2468 Bad writers seem to think people want incompetent villains who are beaten by boring invincible heroes. They don't. People want interesting, entertaining, badass, smart and scary villains and interesting, entertaining, inspiring, likeable heroes who have more to them than just "good guy or girl."

[@EclipseHedgehog]

I just love the whole set piece during Vader's first appearance. The whole insides of the ship are blinding white, the storm troopers are all wearing white, and here comes Vader wearing nothing but black and he just pops out automatically drawing all eyes from the audience on him. Brilliant directing/shooting.

[@trevorthornley8835]

Not too mention the deep, loud breathing

[@darthvader5532]

It was sexy wasn't it!?!? Yeah, it was.

[@haroldnecmann7040]

@@darthvader5532 it's course and irritating 🙄

[@darthvader5532]

@@haroldnecmann7040 and it gets EVERYWHERE!!!!!!

[@Fhdurhr2]

@@darthvader5532 I love democracy

[@juliewochholz1629]

Look at Silence of the Lambs. Clarice takes on many different men in that story and she defeats them all in different ways: She develops a relationship of respect and trust with Hannibal that allows her to get the information she needs without compromising her position in the FBI or succumbing to his darkest manipulations. She schools her FBI mentor on how to behave in front of other men with respect to the fact that she is a woman but also an FBI agent. She uses her training and wit to defeat the serial killer. And she also uses her social abilities to ward off an advance by a creepy Warden, without having to go ballistic or sue him in court. She is an awesome female character. We need more writing like that.

[@LexingtonDeville984]

An thoroughly righteous and correct example! I’ll take Clarice Starling over today’s generation of female protagonists who are obsessively written by miserable writers who feel a pathological need to make men appear weak.

[@muhammadnabil3390]

Add Ellen Ripley & Sarah Conner into the fold as well. Those were some bad-ass ladies portrayed by the directors of the past.

[@F4c2a]

Yeah, and how do you make a strong female like that? By not making a strong female. If you make a strong female, people can tell. People are not idiots. If you make a strong female for the sake of making a strong female, it will show. And if it shows, it's bad storytelling. Same with diversity. If you force it, people can tell. Some people only like that stuff because they're all for it. But even they can tell it's done for the sake of it.

[@avachanel4889]

that’s a main reason why silence of the lambs is one of my favourite films. it never puts down Hannibal as a character in order to build Clarice up. Hannibal is a difficult and menacing character from the very first scene, he makes Clarice uncomfortable and threatens her. this makes it satisfying when she eventually gets him to cooperate on the case. and his escape becomes even more terrifying in the end because we actually fear for Clarice’s safety, because he remains this menacing character and also because she earned our respect throughout the film.

[@CappyK]

I LOVED Lara Craft in the rebooted game series Squarenix put out a while back. She was this 45kg woman alone on a Island full of bulked up, heavily armed pirates. So she never really went punch for punch with any of them. Your combat moves were all clever improvisations. She could shoot an arrow into an armoured up guy's leg, then brain him with a rock. That animation of the skinny protagonist snarling with desperate rage as she whole body smashed a rock into the head of a much bigger opponent made me absolutely believe that if I tried to fight Lara, I was coming away from it with a skull fracture. It also makes you root for her as a hero, because she's so hopelessly outmatched but keeps coming up a winner through sheer grit and determination. She doesn't get to stay clean and pretty. She ends up with mud caked into her hair, grime and blood all over her face, her clothes have rips and tears. She's a beast! It was just so well done. I guess audiences want to see a hero that struggles against a real obstacle.

[@ronh1752]

"The problem with good guys, is that they have to follow the rules. Bad guys make their own rules"

[@Wolffman109]

What about antiheroes who write their own rules but are ultimately on the side of good?

[@laxmanrawat748]

​@@Wolffman109a antihero might sacrifice 1 for 100 but a hero nevel will.

[@chaddcordell]

Kylo had potential. He could have been a Prince Zuko from "Last Air Bender"

[@bigmouselittlemouse2001]

Let’s face it, no villain could ever be as good as Prince Zuko himself, no matter how good the movie is.

[@bigmouselittlemouse2001]

And in this case, comparing Ben Swolo to Zuko is like comparing a mouldy sack of potatoes to a perfectly cooked rotisserie chicken.

[@lathrael7152]

Well he ended up being one, but in worst way possible.

[@Beaut_Beau]

How dare you mention those two characters in the same sentence.

[@pirate933]

Well? Does he even have an uncle iroh?

[@CYMotorsport]

I’ve come to cynically believe shitty villains are a purposeful choice to allow for easy wins. As you put it, the better the villain, the note competent and complex our hero must be, and the bigger the payoff. But to beat Vader, you needed a vastly complex character like Luke. Competent writing can navigate the difficult task of having our hero lose with purpose and overcome such a strong character. Thing you’ve harped on ad nauseam but I truly think lately writers are confusing cheap payoffs with good ones.

[@EbonyPope]

Exactly. The things Luke had to endure from his training to the confrontation of his own demons were exhausting and he still want able to beat him. It was an immense amount of efforts that in the end even cost him one of his hands. The payoff only is so satisfying because you know what everything this character had to go through to overcome all these obstacles.

[@RobertGraphics]

The problem is, to fight evil, you must let evil enter you and then master it. The moment Luke ceased his fight after beating his father, Luke mastered both the darkness within and his light side of the force. At that moment, his victory was complete. Vader saw that Luke was his superior, and saw the opportunity to kill the empower. But he also knew he could never be forgiven, so he had to die (moral death for the crimes he’s committed, my opinion of a bad script or story telling). The point is, without those badass antagonist, Luke’s easy victory would have seen him become Vader. He would not have had to let the darkness into his heart, and know it’s bitter taste. New authors and those who support the new story telling have had antagonist who had no face. Modern antagonist aren’t Vader, it’s society, the society that knelt to both Vader and the emperor. Thus, the writers, and their supporters don’t know what hard fought battles against individuals really are, or the price of victory. Males, especially males who liked the old antagonist know this consequence, because we had physical antagonist, bullies who broke our ribs, our bones, and whom we could return the favor to. The consequences escalating until one side or the other stopped, and either we the protagonist became subservient prey, or we became the bully to the bully.

[@shadymello9146]

i read somewhere....Vader kept with the emperor not because the dark side is some mystical parasite that latches onto you but he had essentially killed everyone he knew in his life including his wife and was alive because of technology provided by palps.....but he slowly changes....when he hears that luke is his son he thoughts not of leaving all of this behind and finding a life with him but taking his help and overthrowing the emperor just like palps wants to replace crippled vader with luke.....he wants luke because he himself is afraid of The Emperor but he too overcomes his fear when he is unable to see his son suffer.Even he has a story to tell....

[@caseypayne5138]

I think a lot of immature writers also find it modern and fashionable to show how "aware" they are of Hero's Journey tropes by subverting them or ignoring them. Problem is, they're not smart or talented enough to make something equally compelling or resonant to those tropes.

[@XantaliX]

@@shadymello9146 Holly shit, now that you put it like this, this is the perfect metaphore of how a toxic and abusive family dynamic works, usually the responsability of ending that cycle for good landing on the younger generation (usually a grandkid having they themselves lived the abuse but seeing through it and identifying the root of it all) which throws WAY another layer on this all.

[@alrightsquinky7798]

When I was 19 years old, I volunteered at a summer day camp for underprivileged kids with a bunch of my classmates. My friend and I were put in charge of coming up with a small theater play for the kids based on the story of St. George and the Dragon. The version we came up with was goofy, deviating from the source material in several places in order to make it more fun for the elementary school aged children we were entertaining. In the end, it was a decent success. The kids liked it...for the most part. There were a few older kids in the mix who found it funnier to shout insults at the stupid slapstick humor we portrayed on stage. See, the play we wrote was aimed at kids 10 years old and younger: King George was brave and honorable, but sometimes comically inept and dim-witted. We also made his horse a talking animal (our main comic relief). The dragon was barely threatening, its presence undermined by the comic nature of the whole play. Why did the big kids laugh at us instead of with us? Because to them it sounded like my friend and I were talking down to them. Our little morality play didn’t have any meat for them to chew on: it had no real tension, no nuanced characters, it was dreadfully contrived, the writing was comic but incongruous and not in keeping with the source material, and really it was all very dumb. It felt like the new Star Wars movies felt to long time fans. When I saw the new movies, all I could think of was, “Wow. The Disney executives really think we’re all a bunch of children.” I don’t blame the middle school aged kids for laughing at us, and if Disney had even a semblance of self-awareness they wouldn’t diss old school Star Wars fans for voicing their displeasure, either.

[@juancarlosperaltaolivera7730]

​@Абдульзефир to use "gosh" instead of "god" isn't a good way to support your point

[@SamTheEnglishTeacher]

To be fair Star Wars movies are for children.

[@frix3y344]

@@SamTheEnglishTeacher no it's not, people as old as 60 saw the original trilogy back in the 70s and have been swept along through this shit show they call a trilogy. Just because a movie or book is fiction, doesn't mean it's for kids

[@SamTheEnglishTeacher]

@@frix3y344 Of course, most fiction is made for adults I'd gamble. But star wars would not be included in that list, since it is for children.

[@Byssbod]

Judging by the amount of defense the new trilogy got, they execs were right to think the audience is a bunch of children.

[@Blobby192]

Maximilian the robot in the film the black hole was an intimidating menacing villain, there was nothing weak or conflicted about him. He was very vader like. soon as kylo took the helmet off his character was ruined, people had hope for snoke and they killed him off too, the message was more important to them than a great villain in the 3 films

[@deathstrike]

Maximilian was like the dark, brooding enforcer reluctant to hear from his very creator. Dr. Hans Reinhardt. Himself being a cold, ruthless and cunning commander who did the most unimaginable things to his crew. Like Palpatine and Vader. Only to be found 20 years later by the most unlikely heroes.

[@SheldonAdama17]

JJ Jameson: No matter how good you write your villain, he’ll never be as evil as that dastardly Spider-Man!

[@tofferooni4972]

*menace*

[@bighands69]

JJ had zero control over the film.

[@bUll3t4MyVAlentineee]

Most superhero movies are a referrence to vigilante-ism. Especially the good 1's...batman, deadpool, spawn, hancock etc..

[@snoopywriter3643]

@@bighands69 🤦‍♂️ Wrong JJ, bud.

[@vidard9863]

You ever notice how many of the villains are better people than the heroes these days?

[@66Roses]

"The impression you get from Kylo Ren is that he's a weak, immature, conflicted manchild. Desperately pretending to be something he isn't, exploding with childish displays of emotion whenever things don't go his way, and unable to commit to a course of action." Like many things in the sequels, this isn't a problem in a vacuum. Him being a pretentious bad guy, unable to be taken seriously by the heroes is not that uncommon, and can be used extremely well in the right circumstance. This is honestly a perfect starting point for a villain with a redemption arc. The actual problems come in when you consider: 1. He doesn't ever GET that arc. He talks to his mommy and suddenly he's a good boy again. 2. The audience is given no other consistent antagonist to latch onto. Snoke and Palpatine are Cobra Commander levels of ineffectual and neither are threatening because one doesn't do anything and the other has been defeated before. So all the audience has as a consistent antagonist is the shell of a better character walking around without an arc.

[@sand5527]

I cannot describe how wholeheartedly I agree with this.

[@DeutscherPatrick]

He was great in The first two movies but everything great about him got thrown into the garbage can. I do still like his character but the wasted potential is undeniable

[@nanalove3819]

Yeah, for me it is the execution that is at fault here. You can find a lot of "immature manchild" as villain and they work; because the writers have a direction and give them some depth. They clearly didn't know what they wanted to do with Kylo Ren.

[@OrtadragoonX]

@Carlos Gabriel 100% fact. What makes Jacen such a good villain as Darth Caedus is that he is never portrayed as incompetent. He struggles with his new mission and he makes mistakes, but he’s never incompetent. Over the course of Legacy of the Force he becomes more efficient. And more ruthless. He crosses his own boundaries and justifies it. I think it helps that he is the main character of Legacy of the Force and the central story is about his fall to the dark side. The most interesting part of his character to me is that he has a redemption arc of sorts, but the authors made it a good point to not wash away what he did. His last conversation (as a force ghost) with Ben Skywalker is particularly powerful. Ben doesn’t excuse his feelings at all. Ben is rightfully angry and hateful that Jacen killed his mom. And he brings up all of the evil shit that Jacen did. He feels pity for him, not sorrow. Jacen surprisingly accepts all of it and doesn’t fight against what Ben says about him. It’s a really good way to redeem a character, as Jacen could have killed Jaina in their last fight but instead used his last moments to warn his “significant other” and their child about the Imperial Remnant bio weapon Jacen himself constructed, saving their lives. But that doesn’t earn him a full redemption and his conversation with Ben does a good job of showing that.

[@HexenStar]

You forgot to mention that he absolutely sucks at wielding a lightsaber.

[@chrisjohnson4738]

The scene where the heroes fix the hyperdrive and escape from the emperials is powerful. I love how we're all waiting for the officer responsible to get wacked, but Vader just walks past. He probably gave the man the benefit of the doubt, considering Luke was onboard the ship that managed to escape. Vader being collected makes him 10X more intimidating.

[@crazzanthictlabbar1056]

The vibe I got was that Vader was so upset that he didn't even acknowledge the officers. That and the fact that, despite his prey escaping, the imperial underlings still did their job and don't deserve punishment.

[@e.corellius4495]

exactly. i mean the only reason he killed the one officer was for directly disobeying his orders and jumping to close to the planet forcing the land battle vader wanted to avoid. the admirals foolishness cost them the rebels and the lives of the troopers under his command, so he was executed. in that other scenario, they had done all they could and followed orders to the letter, it wasn't their fault basically. so no executions. really exemplifies the core of Vader's personality and flows fantastically with the added characterization Anakin gets in the clone wars show. he may be more extreme and far harsher, but he is still the same man trapped in that armor. . . great stuff disney decided to just toss out the window for their bullshit. who needs good cohesive character writing over multiple writers and mediums when we can have flashy cg spectacles and identity politics! yippee!

[@sakhalnakhash1123]

It's clear that Piett expected to die. I know that if I were in his shoes when the Millennium Falcon jumped away I would have thought to myself: "Oh fuck! I'm dead."

[@Terminal-Vet]

Anton Chigrr from No Country for Old Men is the greatest antagonist in recent cinema history, in my opinion. He is capable, cold blooded as hell, but he also is a man who lives by some higher code than merely his own whims. The coin toss scene in the filling station, and the one at the end of the movie were epic.

[@slashum999]

A hero is only as good as the villan he's up against. The first time I realized this was, James Bond's Goldfinger. I'll never forget the part where Bond is tied up on a table with a laser beam slowly moving towards his junk and he yells out "Do you expect me to talk? And Goldfinger says "No, I expect you to die Mr. Bond"

[@pepperonipizza8200]

And then Homer Simpson tackled him, I loved that scene.

[@hercules5141]

Wheel of time proved that quote wrong

[@Dowlphin]

_"The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."_ - Revolver It's a real challenge these days when the smarter opponent (Master Fear) is using an army of morons as agents and decoy.

[@RogerMoore-y3y]

While a fan of the Bond films of old, Goldfinger was in my opinion the worst of the originals. He is the stereotypical monologing villain, who after making his get away shows up which makes no sense in character to die thus wrapping up loose ends. He had a good plan but never commanded respect in intellect or strength and was a just poorer version of every greedy ultra rich bastard who make their billions in the real world without bringing the ire of several nations governments upon him.

[@Bruce_K]

@@RogerMoore-y3y- it would have been easy to find Goldfinger. He came back for revenge rather than get away. He was stupid to use the laser instead of just putting a gun to Bond’s head and settling it. All villains lose by talking instead of acting. It gets old. Having the villains just kill the good guys at the first opportunity would also get old fast. A smart protagonist would not get into situations where they have to talk their way out of death and rely on talkative villains giving them time to escape or bluff.

[@bunsenn5064]

I loved the original trilogy of Star Wars because it implemented the idea of the heroes actually failing to defeat the villain, and proceeding to grow and redeem themselves.

[@marvelsandals4228]

Yeah me personally 4 is my favorite, but I know why 5 is considered the best by most fans. It is because 5 really kicked all the heroes asses. The end of 5 is basically everyone losing in horrible ways. It is a complete downer ending. Just like Infinity War ironically lol and once again most people thought that was one of the best movies in the franchise. Take a note writers: your heroes need to lose to the villain. They need to get their asses kicked, they need to be humbled, they need to barely escape with their lives. If you don't have the balls to do that, then why should the audience care? Why should we worry about the heroes? Why should we root for them? Why should we come back and watch the sequel? If you kick the heroes asses, then people are on the edge of their seats, dying to know what happens next, to see the underdogs overcome their enemies.

[@davidcox3076]

And while they were growing and redeeming themselves, the Empire wasn't standing idly by.

[@poppie267]

so true.also in atla season 2 the fire nation takes over ba sin se and in season 3 their sucsesfully captured most of the good guys.

[@PoolKid75]

This is what happens when you have a generation of "writers" that were never taught how writing actually works.

[@AndrewFishman]

Social Politics was more important than Creative Writing.

[@UnbeltedSundew]

To be fair, they don't have to learn how to write a decent story, because that's not what they get paid for. It's also why the only movies that get made are off of already well established IP.

[@sirquaffler542]

This is happening too consistently for it to be attributed solely to mere incompetence. These writers are part of a cabal subverting our culture in accordance to Marxist tactics, as Yuri Bezemenov has laid out.

[@hankrearden20]

When writers are people who never lived a life of their own.

[@magmos6346]

@Forta Leza Thing is, how the HELL did we get to the point that traditional storytelling, bad guy strong so hero needs to get stronger, become a big risk!?

[@-NoneOfYourBusiness]

One of the best movie villain I know was The Operative from Serenity (2005) played by Chiwetel Ejioford. Very (very) well written and interpreted adversary with a clear motive, calm, smart, methodical, unshakable resolution and supreme competence. Very scary guy.

[@Adamguy2003]

Hear, hear! Awesome villain in an awesome movie! "This is a good death."

[@-NoneOfYourBusiness]

@@Adamguy2003 omg, yes. So good.

[@BarkusMuhl]

Captain Marvel's only weakness was that she didn't believe in her power. Hilarious.

[@NexusKin]

Actually her weakness was that power limiter device she had on, which she could've very easily have taken off at any point in the movie had she known what it really was.

[@angrymokyuu1951]

While I'm not familiar with the movie too much, just going off that excerpt, it could still be made to work: instead of having her one-shot him in the desert, have the confrontation take place in a city or other area where going full power would cause unacceptable levels of collateral damage, forcing her to lure him to a more open area before she can nuke him. However, he catches on to this and stops letting her lead him by the nose, taking a defensive stance with the intent of wearing her out. As the fight wears on, she's forced to confront the possibility of not being able to get a clean hit on him and has to start weighing whether it's better to stop him here, killing who knows how many people in the process, or to let him go for now, not knowing how many lives he might take before she has a second chance. While a superhero movie will inevitably choose to have him conveniently blunder into an area where she can beat him without any causalities, you can get all the psychological drama of "maybe she can't win" without taking away the ridiculously overpowered nature of the character. But even that's probably far too far for modern movies.

[@razabazal4669]

Underrated comment

[@D3K018]

Same shit as Mulan... That kind of writing is the laziest I've ever seen, no wonder why Hollywood is going to heck (which is probably the best thing).

[@zazugee]

she didnt believe in the power of feminism at 1st then when she came to term with it, she became overpowered

[@katajiro8178]

Dr. Evil from Austin Powers is more intimidating than modern movie villains.

[@klugevil]

dr. evil fulfilled quite a few points of an intimidating villain.

[@MrlspPrt]

His submarine was big, long and full of seamen, not like modern villains...

[@micahteter2611]

He's been an Evil Scientist for 30 frickin years!

[@weswolever7477]

And he has mr Bigglesworth....and you know what happens when mr bigglesworth gets upset

[@NefariousKoel]

"There's nothing quite like a freshly shorn scrotum. It's breathtaking. I suggest you try it."

[@Tat2dDude67]

Kylo Ren's first helmet-throwing tantrum in "The Force Awakens" was the end of my interest in modern Star Wars. Thanks for a great video Drinker!

[@sooperd00p]

That didn't bother me because I felt like they might point him towards maturity or something much darker. Initially showing us an emotionally weak but physically powerful kid turn into a more mature man and reject the darkside...that would have been very interesting but difficult to handle on screen. I think Adam Driver would have done a great job with that complexity. Or, it could have gone deeper into the darkside as a more formidable force like Darth Bane. We instead got an even more immature young adult teenage angst tryst between a protagonist that no one identifies with and a failed villain that doesn't make any sense.

[@Apollo890]

When I saw that in the Cinema, I just laughed. And it only got worse, by the end of The Last Jedi Ren and Huxley were like the three stooges smacking each other.

[@nathank2289]

I was OK with FA because they played him as a kid trying to live up to Vader's shadow. Which was literally what he was. Trashing his helmet in the Last Failure was the problem.

[@system-error]

Everything about that movie sucked so bad. The opening with Poe. Rey's stupid ill-fitting posh accent. Rey quickly battering five henchmen of the dude she scavenges for (why not apply for a bodyguard position if you're rock hard like that). Rey blowing Han Solo's mind with her from-nowhere shooting skills, vomit. Han Solo shooting someone brhind him without looking like he's in a TV show parody sketch of Star Wars. Han Solo earning himself a cinematic Darwin Award for stupidest and most easily-seen-coming death on some godforsaken bridge in JJ Abrams's barren imagination. Stupid random tentacle monster fight, ridiculous 'only there for the marketing' characters, and tons of them like the Knights of Ni and Captain Phantom or whatever their stupid names were. Finn letting a random guy he's just met name him Finn, instead of having ANY nickname his WHOLE life that he could have used. Total bait and switch marketing of making him look like a Jedi on the poster but then having him be the beta male simp getting friendzoned with a daring interracial forehead kiss (you trailblazer Abrams omg) and see how I haven't even got to the bit where this literal hobo girl beats a trained Jedi academy alumnus in a lightsaber duel. I could go on and on, there's no end to the shitness of this movie. I can see how Mauler made those massive videos. God it was so shit.

[@dvf1736]

it's a good thing those sequel movies are gone for good. At least the Mandalorian is good, and many of the new shows are most likely going to be good as well (Ashoka and Bad Batch especially)

[@kyledabearsfan]

The first time I saw the "misunderstood villain" i thought it was a unique take and pretty awesome. Its quickly worn its welcome.

[@B0mber44]

If you have a man in a mask, you must use the rule of Dredd: KEEP THE DAMN MASK ON!!!!

[@MKDumas1981]

Especially when your badass villain looks like a cross between a young Gene Simmons, and David Schwimmer.

[@MeaCulpa04]

@@MKDumas1981 💀

[@StaffordMagnus]

@@MKDumas1981 Dollar store Keanu Reeves. For real though I couldn't believe Kylo took his mask off 20 minutes into the movie, then when they made him a whiny, needy, man-child I knew these three installments would be dead on arrival.

[@patrickgonzalez3806]

I always thought he looked like a starwars fan that won a contest to be in the movie; I agree - the mask IS his face in these cases.

[@MKDumas1981]

@@StaffordMagnus: That's an insult to Keanu Reeves. And dollar stores.

[@zildog]

"A hero is only as strong as the villain they defeat." Well said.

[@KororaPenguin]

And the hero's defeat of the villain is not always physical. In _Uncle Tom's Cabin_ Simon Legree succeeds in mortally wounding Tom; but his two Trusted Lieutenants are redeemed before Tom succumbs to his injuries, he [Legree] never does recapture Cassie or Emmeline, and he himself dies of some unspecified ailment not long after.

[@blairm6128]

Well said drinker. Remember the days when female characters were actually well written (Ripley, Sarah Connor) i miss those days....

[@Sandman_10372]

TBF Sarah Connor is a ditz in Terminator. Kyle is the hero. T2 is after she's hardened by the events in T1.

[@blairm6128]

@@Sandman_10372 yes sir! And that right there is why shes a better written character.........ACTUAL MEANINFUL CHARACTER DEVELOPEMENT!!!!!! The best part is she still has flaws and thats why the scene where she almost kills Miles and she breaks down you feel the weight of her struggle.......damnit i really really miss this treatment of characters

[@bonganimkhwanazi2081]

Dude even Buffy The Vampire Slayer was good for a time.

[@dwatersfilm8781]

Let’s not forget Clarice Starling

[@GottaloveMuse1]

There are plenty of well-written female characters in recent movies. You probably need to look outside the action or blockbuster genre.

[@bobogus7559]

So basically, Hollywood's attempts to avoid offending certain people end up offending certain other people.

[@Mr.Tw1sty]

Ironic...

[@villardileonardo2411]

we are not offended... we are bored

[@Vishaal1797]

No, it ends up offending all of them

[@mattturner7531]

"Nerfing your villains..." Yes, this is exactly the description of what Hollywood has been doing the last 6-8 years.

[@porkfrog2785]

Hollywood's a buncha nerf-herders

[@maliaspoto992]

Ellen Ripley in Alien is a fantastic example of a female protagonist who faces what seems like insurmountable challenges against a terrifying villain. As a result, the movie's tension in sky-high, and the audience sympathizes and cheers for her when she finally beats the alien.

[@machupikachu1085]

Ironically, that character was so well written with a full arc is because Ripley was written as a male lead. Weaver came into read for Veronica's part, and won over the producers. She was Ripley. Ripley wasn't a kickass female character, she was a kickass character that ended up being female. Cheers!

[@bozoclown99]

Oh yea Ripley another ‪#Hollywood fantasy that would never happen in this universe 😂 /221121

[@anthonyobryan3485]

Modern Hollywood writers would have changed the script once Sigourney got the role. At the end, instead of fighting the Xenomorph with the mech suit, Ripley would have exited the mech suit by ripping it apart with her bare hands, and then bare-knuckled the Xenomorph into a quick, bloody pulp. Then, as she walked away, the beaten and bloodied Xenomorph would have made one last jump from behind, but a quick hair toss from Ripley would lash an open wound in the Xenomorph, and the oils in Ripley's hair would cause its blood to instantly ignite into a huge explosion that shattered the monster into a billion pieces.

[@machupikachu1085]

@@anthonyobryan3485 HAHA totally true! I would like to add that the Xenomorph would also most likely be re-written from a female to male. That way, Ripley can really cut loose! 😆

[@lukasz1154]

@@bozoclown99 I don’t know precisely what you’re referring to but there’s plenty of cases of women who are genuinely kickass in history. Boudicca, thatcher, queen Elizabeth I. Not being woke doesn’t equal pretending that woman are incapable of competence

[@hassathunter2464]

Me after TFA: "Doesn't really matter Kylo is a pushover. He's not the villain, Snoke is. Atleast they can not rip off Vader next movie" Me after TLJ: "..."

[@lalkiran1950]

Yeah If he was the main character plus remove his man child behavior His character arc would be even better

[@nnickplays9713]

Or Undergo Character development into a worthy antagonistic force.

[@iSOBigD]

F Snoke, we'll get the same bad guy from two other trilogies and defeat him the same exact way a third time.

[@Trickyjonny]

are you the same guy that made M4-78 mod for Kotor 2? if so very good mod!!

[@MinuteLeech2]

@@lalkiran1950 He's just a knock-off of Vader. His backstory is too similar (Skywalker fallen jedi corrupted by Palpatine. Wears mask/changes name, serves as #2 of the Empire, wipes the jedi out, chases desert planet hero around) What little that distinguished him was Kylo being so unstable. If they made him an unstable credible threat with a less dervitive backstory... nevermind... honestly the premise of the character was shit from the start.