Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | The Wars to Come | More Unlikely Allies & The Doom of Valyria

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Part 4 of The Wars to Come: More Unlikely Allies, Doom of Valyria Explained.
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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[@morellanaghenz778]

I love the idea that tormund is the Mormont girls' father. It makes his "husband of bears" title even more amazing. Maybe he choose that name on purpose. Haha

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...that's exactly what we thought

[@lynnjohanssen6552]

Yesssssssss. It fits perfectly. And also his attraction to Brienne who is a large fighting woman.

[@chrismccloskey2502]

Ain't going to lie, the idea that he seduced a bear (literal) still makes me laugh.

[@richardfitzpatrick9732]

Thormund being Gerold Hightower is a cool theory

[@jeangove01]

@@lynnjohanssen6552 Not canon.

[@Killerina]

I always thought there was something strange about the Mormonts. They show up in too many of the main story lines. You have Jeor at the wall, Jorah with Dany, Maege with Robb and possibly at Greywater Watch now, Alysane with Stannis, and Jorelle is with her mother now according to Alysane so they must be communicating somehow. I always thought Jorah's whole story was strange as well. I also like the idea of Dany's wedding as an excuse for a secret meeting. It reminds me of The Mystery Knight and how the wedding was an excuse for the second Blackfyre rebellion.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...one day we realized what a strange group they had there...literally people from every corner of the world at an exiled Targaryen-Dothraki wedding seemed strange...then once we realized the children were responsible for the Doom of Valyria and the war to come was with them, the pieces started falling in to place

[@ReeceDee]

don't forget that out of all the houses of westeros the ones most associated with sorcery and spells..Hightower...Whent..Dayne..Blackwood..Spicer..Lothston...are all connected in bizarre ways throughout history of westeros

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

True. We really want that book Ned was reading in AGOT with all the lineages

[@andrewpost5152]

I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but during my re read I came across a few words in Melisandre's POV in ADWD. When speaking to the glamoured Mance about Tormund and Jon Snow Mance says "Snow's been assuming the free folk would turn to Tormund to lead them, because that's what he would do. He like Tormund, and THE OLD FRAUD liked him too." Not sure if that could be referring to something different but it just caught my eye. Great videos and theories though!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I wish I noticed that line when we were making the part 2 video about Tormund being Gerold

[@hvz4ever]

These people must have a hell of yarn budget to keep track of all this

[@mikemercer5940]

I am blown away. So smart. So well put together. impeccably researched. I'm not ashamed to say that I've become obsessed with GoT. I've seen all sorts of vids about different theories on all sorts of different channels. This is the only place I've seen these particular theories. They make so much sense, and have got me more excited to re-read the series than I ever thought possible. Your obvious enthusiasm is contiguous. I'm hooked. Huge fan.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...comments such as yours really mean a lot to us...and there is nothing to be ashamed of in being obsessed with this book series...they are the most well-written, intricately detailed books I've ever read, and the size and scope of the story and the world he created is unparalleled...plus the way he hides information pertinent to figuring out the mysteries in the books in plain sight is unbelievable...when you do re-read them, so much jumps out at you the second time through that you never noticed the first time

[@killerjob12]

Dont forget my favourite Tormund nickname " Husband to Bear's" wink , wink , hint, hint

[@christianlyons4186]

Another level on top of Maege and Gerold Hightower is how tormund had a story of a love affair with a she bear- maege mormont:0

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Christian Lyons I thought we mentioned that. If we didn't it was definitely an oversight because it was the first thing that started leading us to believe it

[@jhherkert]

Ygritte: "I know you never fucked a bear. You know you never fucked a bear. Right now, I don't want to think about the bear you never fucked." Maege: *Sneezes*

[@lenox4166]

i literally hit thumbs up before the vid began. thats how much i love you guys. great content

[@samuelhass1873]

hahaha, I do the same thing because I already know I'm going to watch every second of this video

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@charlesbellomo3018]

sam hass

[@christopherjordan2890]

Cerlenox Nembhard same here

[@BNG1Fdarest]

Cerlenox Nembhard Cerlenox Nembhard exactly. ..once im a fan of a channel it's auto thumbs up..we the loyal types i guess. .if you guys love OGH then check out Tony Teflon and his fellow collaborators, the other Dons, James of Thrones and his crew. They are great, a definite must watch as an add on to these wonderful theory discussions the OGH's have put out... again thanks!

[@benjaminblack7923]

so he did bed a bear

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

He did indeed

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

Benjamin Black like five times

[@DragonoidBerserker1]

"If they should fail, the world will die with them" Sounds like Azor Ahai's prophecy

[@chad871127]

the reason why Jeor joined NW had bothered me so long until now. nice theory !

[@AzaleaJane]

Interesting idea about Walgrave. One minor point, though: it's possible for the brain to act wacky like that. Neurologist Oliver Sacks has written books about it - one example was the titular case in "The Man who Mistook his Wive for a Hat" where a man who developed a condition where he would forget faces, see faces that weren't there, mistake objects for other objects -- but none of this affected his musical abilities or his ability to carry on a conversation. Sometimes brain damage can be very specific. This can be congenital conditions and/or can be caused by brain trauma. So it's not totally implausible for Walgrave to be almost useless except for with Ravens. It's also plausible for him to be faking it, as you say!

[@curtisnucmed]

Can I just thank you guys for all your work. I just recently found your videos because I was a follower of a few other Ice and fire channels and didn't have time for more. I'm so glad I come to your videos now because I have a wealth of videos to binge watch and enjoy. Well done!!!

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

Just finished your vid and its full of more interesting stuff. I've always thought the Children were responsible for the Doom, it just seemed to ring of the other "natural" disasters we've read of. You can be sure they're the reason the seasons are out of whack as well, and we'll see them return to normal at the end of the whole thing when the children are either defeated or reverse the spell themselves. Or maybe its the existence of the Others? Either way you can be sure the Children are the root cause. Good stuff again folks and i look forward to your next vid!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...I just got to thinking one day when I was looking at the Maps that Valyria looks strikingly similar to the Broken Arm...then it clicked in my brain that if you performed the Hammer of the Waters, causing a massive earthquake, to a volcanic peninsula, something resembling the Doom would have to happen

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

Then to make sure no one questions it you make the people you killed look bad like "omg they insalved people"! to back this claim up you get witnessess like the Andals or rhyonar to lie for you in return they come to westerous and take care of the first men for you

[@richardfitzpatrick9732]

I love the Mance is Arthur Dayne Quorin is Oswely whent Thormund is GEROLD Hightower

[@cassiocosta9854]

2 videos in one week is amazing

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

THANK YOU CASSIO! I am so sorry, we missed this one. it was so late and we had people giving us shi*. Happy NEW YEAR :) :)

[@crystalmitchell5108]

Having to watch this one again. Covered so much ground I'm actually lost. Best theory video series ever! Thank you guys 💯💯

[@crystalmitchell5108]

Passed Preston Jacobs with this one 🤘

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...we know we kind of hit the accelerator in this video, but there was some material we needed to get out before our collaborative video with Toni Teflon on the children, but we're going to do at least 2 maybe 3 more videos in this series and we'll go through all of it in our usual overly detailed nature

[@TheSomewhereElse]

loved the end about the children! finally all the dots connect in my mind! I've always been curious as to what the intentions of the others and children are, and the idea that they created the doom makes so much sense, especially in the context of your other theories. I just wonder what direction the show will take that storyline in... As always, love your videos. Videos that are long can tend to drag on, but yours are jam packed with content so I watch every second. :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...we have trouble keeping them as short as we make them...we have so much content to squeeze in that a lot of our theories are still only 2/3 explained because we think that inundating people with too many facts would be overwhelming and would start to sound too much like we're reading an academic research paper

[@TheSomewhereElse]

well, you do a great job. you balance the logic, explanation, and timing perfectly I think - you're never boring and are skilled at easing us into what at first glance seem to be crazy theories. looking forward to the next one.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much for noticing that that's what we're doing...I have often found that when swimming against the current, one must take their time and cover all the bases, or you'll be swept away...in other words, if you are going to try and convince people that something they have believed for a while is not true, you're going to have to "walk them through it" because if you move too quickly, people's guards come up and they are going to fight it before you have a chance to explain

[@TheSomewhereElse]

So true, and that way of thinking applies to all aspects of life. Patience, and relating to others' perspective, goes a long way in helping others to understand. Glad to find someone who feels the same way.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Same here...this day in age, people want immediate gratification and immediate answers and seem to accept the first explanation offered without ever questioning whether it actually makes sense then jump down anyone's throat who has the gall to voice an opposition opinion

[@tomaszprzyby784]

Illirio is Salador? The speach patterns do match, but I need more info.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we have a lot more...a whole doc but we keep forgetting to turn it into a video

[@richardfitzpatrick9732]

Don't believe in this theory now that Illaryo is Salador? Not possible

[@Guinnessdrnkr1234]

That Theon book cover cracks me up every time it's on the screen!

[@psevdhome]

How is it that deep and interesting if highly speculative videos like yours get thousands of subscribers and shitty shallow ones get hundreds of thousands if not millions. Life is not fair I guess. Good job with this one!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we were talking about that the other day...it even applies to the individual videos on our channel...the most in-depth ones that take 100s of hours of research often get viewed less than videos that took us a day and a half to research and record and produce....we're hoping that when TWOW comes out, our channel will get a bump in viewership (if we're right), and some of our more in-depth videos will begin getting more play

[@psevdhome]

I just wanted to give you encouragement as you deserve it ten times over! Please keep it up as long as you can! I'm not sure if you have actual animosity toward Catelyn or if your series was there to illustrate that all people can be viewed as foolish, selfish and evil if you look at them right. In any case that was my favorite of your videos. Thank you so much!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you!!!

[@richiet8688]

I really hope GRRM plots are as deeps as these videos!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

so do we...and in answer to your question about the Doom, the hammer of the waters is the spell the children of the forest used to break the arm of dorne...it causes a massive earthquake and likely a massive tidal-wave that shattered the land bridge, and severed westeros from essos...we think they used the same spell to shatter the Valyrian peninsula, except when you do such a thing to a volcanic peninsula, like Valyria, it causes a volcanic eruption of the likes the world has never seen, then the resulting tidal-wave washed it all away

[@brendanfechter4889]

The Order of the Green Hand did you ever do an entire video on Illyrio being Saan?

[@BNG1Fdarest]

Personally, I was very happy to hear that your partnership found the Don Tony Teflon's group of like minded GoT Theorists/enthusiasts ! Seriously, just as we thought that the community couldn't get any better, your order comes along and injects new life, at least for me, into the discussion. Tony and his mates dissects George" RailRoad"(credit to Suck Professor for coming up with this first, I thought this was perfect for what his middle name's initial stood for, right?) Martin's work so well we thought it couldn't get any better, but after hearing about y'alls hopefully future collaborations with Don Tony and his cronies we could not wait until that came into fruition. You definitely picked the right GoT community to join!! Great all around, Great for us fans because you are adding so much to the already rich discussions we've been having and great for you because they are good people, who know their stuff!! You hooked up with the right people, we fans are so fortunate and credit to Tony for hooking up with y'alls with a quickness, real recognizes real I tell yah! In a hurry so no time to edit, hopefully I can fix any mistakes later. Just wanted to say that I am so excited and cannot wait for these collaborations, welcome and thank you for joining the community...man oh man, just as we thought it could not get better but y'all just added another layer to this beast!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...we really like Toni...we don't agree on everything but he knows his stuff and we respect the system he uses to come up with his theories...it is very similar to our own...we just started working on the collab video today...it is going to be the most comprehensive analysis of the children, their intentions, and their allies ever released...we're really excited to get it out

[@BNG1Fdarest]

The Order of the Green Hand ...thank you and of course, we cannot 100 percent agree with anyone, that's a cult hehe..and we aint sheep..! We love different opinions, something a lot of churches have forgotten, its Sunday sorry, dunno where that came from...i cant wait for that and the rest of y'alls upcoming videos... salud!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

How'd you know we were Italian...is it that obvious? And definitely agree that it's more fun when people don't agree on everything...most of our favorite people who comment regularly on our channel don't agree with us (most people don't agree with us)...that's what makes having a channel so fun...instead of bouncing our ideas off each other all the time we get to bounce them off everyone and anyone who stumbles across our videos...and differing opinions help you hone your positions on things...if someone can poke a hole in your theory in one comment, it must not be a good theory...cent'anni my friend

[@SaneMillennial]

Love your videos, guys! Keep them coming! New ideas I haven't heard anywhere else yet!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...we don't try to be different...we just make videos about what we think is going on

[@SociaCin]

Huh, I always thought Jorah being exiled is what made him take the black, turns out it was before that even happened. Learn something new every day =)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we do what we can

[@dogdriver70]

16:50 this rings true, as Salladhor "betrays" the Onion Knight who then ends up "imprisoned" in White Harbor...very clever

[@anastasiabeaverhausen8335]

Mind = Blown. 😳 Subscribed! You guys are great! Probably the best ASOIAF theorists I've discovered thus far!! Can't wait to watch the rest of the videos!! Valar Morghulis.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much

[@krispykuku]

I love The Order of the Green Hand . discovered this on chance and i have been hooked since , i have shared this info with friends and family and they all tune in to The Order of the Green Hand . thanks so much .... looking forward to continue watching the vids in order as suggested .

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much for watching and for sharing! it is much appreciated. :D

[@BLung-tq2mm]

16:24 Dun Dun Duuunnnn!!! [Insert Dramatic Look Gopher GIF Here]

[@mondemngoma3996]

I've been watching your vidz all day...

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much. Hope you enjoyed

[@mondemngoma3996]

i did thanx. Very insightful.

[@emersonnashman5586]

At first I subscribed just cause I liked the content you guys were covering in this series. Didn't really agree with some of your theories but most of them if not all are intriguing. Now though this stuffs awesome. You guys have some pretty well thought out ideas on this, and it's something with so much mystery to it. Can't wait for more keep, keep it up!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...we're trying to build a narrative as large as his story and the world he built...

[@brianmorris4446]

you guys are great. i love your videos

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@mityboosh]

Thanks all the way from Scotland aka Da Norffff 😎

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you for watching

[@thespidersgreatballsoffire1247]

Fresh theory crafting... fuck yes. Perhaps Walgrave is a warg and has spent too much time in the bodies of his birds? Idk, but I always had a strange feeling that Varys might be getting his information from actual little birds.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@MrFrankyAnd]

I thought the little birds were children who had their tongues ripped out

[@QueenDaenerysTargaryen]

Superb work💯🔥 interesting theories.

[@charlesbellomo3018]

I love seeing a new post from you guys in my inbox. I have watched a lot of fan theory pages but this is the most well thought out, explained and investigated i have come across. I hope your hard work pays off and these theories hold true. Do you think the show will follow this path as it deviates more and more from the books? Thanks for the entertainment and happy new year. keep up the great work

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...it really means a lot to us that people notice that our theories take a lot of work to put together...we literally exhaust every possibility and search through every note we have to make sure there is nothing that can disprove it before we put it online...in terms of the show...a lot of the characters we talk about aren't in the show...we do believe Aegon will be introduced very early this upcoming season...they cast 3 yet to be named characters that perfectly match Connington, Lemore/Ashara, and Aegon, and we really can't see who else those characters could be...they clearly killed Mance and Stannis, and I really don't understand how they are going to move some of the plot forward without them...it seems that they are giving Jon Stannis and Mance's storylines but I can't see them continuing to do so because it will start to get a little ridiculous...Plus I can't think of a better scene than when Ashara recognizes Jon because he looks exactly like Ned did when she met him and Jon gets to finally meet his mother...that will be the most powerful scene they have had thus far in the show

[@bradwolf07]

For a long time, I mistakenly thought Jeor took the black AFTER Jorah did his slaving and embarrassing the family stuff. Then when I realized I was wrong, I was honestly perplexed as to WHY he did it. I think this theory is likely the answer Edit: I'm not sold on Tormund being The White Bull, I'm with you on him being the baby daddy to the She Bear.

[@jamestaylor4511]

I couldnt believe it but ur right..im salador sann ship there is a huge seat..good work

[@Thullin00]

Straight up the best asoiaf series of videos ever!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you...a lot went into making it

[@Harrison-mv3yr]

I've been binging your guys' videos for the past few weeks and I'm so intrigued by the depth of this world that George has created, it seems worlds apart from the Tv series and I'm loving it. Wondering if you guys have a recommended order to read all the books in? Thanks for all the time and effort guys, appreciate it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I'd probably start with the novellas...they're shorter and give a lot of good background information...plus once you get into them, you'll get addicted which will probably help give you the motivation to plow through 5000+ pages...the Dunk and Egg tales are awesome and all three are that are out so far are part of one book. the Princess and the Queen outlines the Dance of Dragons (the first Targaryen civil war) where they're downfall began...get yourself a written outline of the characters and their dragons for this one to have handy while you are reading it because it gets confusing though...the Rogue Prince is about Daemon Targaryen (not Blackfyre), and how he was kind of a loose cannon but its a pretty good story (probably my least favorite of the novellas though).

[@wagrhodes13]

If Maege is in on the conspiracy, why would Jeor help them with anything? Maege and Tormond/Gerald's actions would have been responsible for Jeor loosing everything. Jeor would blame the Kingsguard, Rhegar, Lyana and anyone else associated with them for all of the ills that befell him and the realm since Robert's Rebellion, and to some extent he'd be right.

[@falcoreluckdragon9472]

you guys are awesome!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we do what we can

[@loufrontier9812]

I really enjoy these videos and like the differing takes, but taking the Black is looked at as a fairly honorable thing for aging lords to do in the North. This additional Hightower/Mormont marriage has little to no evidence supporting it, but why not? Also with Eddard knowing all of these tidbits of info I'm sure one or two of them would pop up in his POV. Gotta remember Eddard was not a mastermind and considers his Jon story his greatest fault due to his love of Lyanna. So in that it's just hard for me to get my head around, but I like the outta the box thinking. Good stuff.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

if it is looked on as an honorable thing for an aging lord to do, then why is Mormont the only lord in the story that did it

[@loufrontier9812]

Actually it's spoken of as an honorable thing to do in any walk of life. The Mormont family timeline is squishy when it comes to a level of depth. I could completely see him stepping down as Lord for his son to rise, except that's not quite how it works, he couldn't just sit back while Jorah steps up to plate. For instance Hoster "Crabs in my belly" Tully kept the acting Lord title until he died because Lord ships are only passed down in death, or the black. So with that said maybe he's the only one maybe he isn't, the night's watch members list is endless and just as mysterious. However the rules for title inheritance are not. Again I enjoy the channel but we already know R+L equals J as much as I dislike the notion and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Plus what's the evidence in text for a bear hightower union? Because I'm not seeing it.

[@loufrontier9812]

There may be a precedent for it in the North btw, my aging Lord comment I gotta look at a few things

[@aarongapasin92]

I haven't had a chance to watch this video yet, but it is top priority today. I'm really enjoying your work. I've been meaning to ask you a question, and I apologize if you've already answered it somewhere else. So your theory is that the Children of the Forest are the true enemy and that they've been holding Bloodraven captive. While I really do think there is merit the idea that the Children are more sinister than we've been lead to believe, GRRM is rarely so black and white as to label one as the "true enemy." It would make more sense to me that there could be various factions of the Children, some that want to keep the peace and honor agreements, while others who would seek vengeance. It seems to me, the ones working with Bloodraven and Bran are really trying help them, though they are probably the smaller weaker faction. Neither one is necessarily all good or all evil, rather they are simply following what seems right to them. I would love to hear your thoughts about this.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

There are likely some children who are not bad, but as a whole, the children are the true enemy (in our opinion)...there will be a lot more in our next video...we're doing a collaboration video with Toni Teflon on the children which should be out sometime next week

[@aarongapasin92]

Okay, I just watched it. I love that you two decided to dig into Jeor Mormont's story. His reason for joining the Watch has always seemed a bit off to me as well. I look forward to your future videos. Happy New Year!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

That's what we thought too! There is no way the old bear would step down to give Jorah a chance to rule...and actually Jorah never says that to Dany ever. I think if that was true, it would make him feel even worse (thinking about his old man at the wall, and that he repaid his father by dishonoring his house and the lordship that he gave up for him). Also, in the app all it says is that he joined because he was "aging." that makes no sense either. Thank you for watching and Happy New Year!

[@johnmitchell4043]

I think the black stone is the black wood of the ebony tree which like it's opposite the wierwood, turns to stone after 1000 years. Maybe the power of the children couldn't enter these ebony structures.

[@jkirkcraw]

You said eastern side of Westeros but the arrow was indicating the western coast. Love the theories. I too had come to many of the same conclusions as you regarding Jon Snow and N+A. Keep up the good work.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we finished that video at like 3 in the morning and somehow neither of us noticed that

[@karinelemaire6402]

"My poor life choices" written by Theon Greyjoy; endorsed by Ramsey Bolton!

[@thc3704]

it said in the books or on the show or in the world of ice and fire idk but one said that he left just because he wanted to give jorah a chance to rule

[@crystalmitchell5108]

Thought I heard that too. But that doesn't make sense either

[@christopherjordan2890]

thc3 they mention how in times of old the old men of the north would " go out on a hunt" in the darkest of winters to leave the food supply to the young and that this was similar to that except not during winter and to give his first born a chance to rule.. never really made sense to me either but in westeros especially the north it could be an honorable noble tradition to avoid a roose/Ramsay small Jon/greatjon situation in the show.. except I think the show forgot that they had the great Jon leading an army west of river run while Robb went to the twins and say in season 6 he was captured at twins and killed or just killed so smalljon becomes lord of the last hearth

[@crateyup6016]

The "Old Bear" left Bear Island because Jorah had grown into a great man so he left (bear island) to join the NW because it's still is an honour amongst men who worship the Old Gods. Ser Waymar Royce join the NW because he was a third son, making it difficult for his father to find land for a third son. It was once an honour to join the NW, no matter where you where from

[@apgj00]

^This^... But the video says Ned found Lyanna in her bed of blood in Winterfell. He found her at the ToJ in Dorne. No way Ned sent the Old Bear to the NW, especially based on Lyanna Mormont's letter to Stannis at the Wall. You'd think there would be some hostility there.

[@andrewgourd8486]

Damn you guys are good. I am buying it....

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you! haha

[@adsm6464]

I was thinking about the black stone at the base of all these major castles. It seems to me that the best use of this substance, considering how it is used, would be to protect these (seemingly important) structures, especially the 5 forts in the east and the base of the wall from such an attack as the Hammer, protecting them from ruin when the tremors come.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

It could very well be...it definitely seems that magic cannot penetrate it or get past it

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

what about the red keep

[@danielbasich2729]

My goodness the plot thickens. Maege Mormont and Tormund husband to bears aka Gerald freakin Hightower!

[@TruthComments]

I had an idea right now. The first song of ice and fire stands for the white walkers and the doom of valyria. Both a creation of the children of the forest to take humanity down. The entire serious plays around these 2 events.

[@rivercityslabs1905]

I love your videos. Thanks for time that goes into them. Let me ask you this . Could it be as simple as eye colors? Red and blue make violet eyes. Gold or yellow and blue make moss green eyes. And of course my favorite, black and white make gray eyes. I've always had a notion that all this started with the nights king and queen. Red eyed night king ( greenseer ) plus blue eyed nights queen make a violet eyed Valeryians. Maybe the pact stated they had to live in the lands of always summer. Just some thoughts over the years. Keep up the good work.

[@reconstructo]

First and foremost, great fun this theory. I do wonder if there’s any precedence for a brother going to the wall for a sister, as you suggest with the Mormonts? Very close to “Mormon” that word

[@thc3704]

also the mormont's are very honorable just as the starks and many other people but maybe he retired to the wall because that's what a lot of people in the north do because that's the honorable thing to do mormont was a beast when the show started so i can just imagine what he was like when he first came to the wall so I don't think he retired I'm sticking with him just taking the black so jorah can rule

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

If that was a thing that people do (for honor), then why is he the only Lord that we meet at the wall?

[@thc3704]

it says that the wall in the dining hall or great Hall or whatever used to be covered wit sheilds of all the great Knights and lords but now there are only a few hanging there due to the rapid loss of crows and lack of recruits over the years bit there have been a lot of great lords Knights and very honerable lords that have served

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

more likely they were 2nd and 3rd sons, who could very well have been knights, but not lords...a Lord's place is in his keep...you've really never wondered what the heck he is doing there and/or questioned his story? Sure, on the surface it seems like a nice thing to do, but there are literally zero other examples of this being done in the story...and I just pulled out my book...that hall you're talking about at Castle Black used to be filled with Knight's shields...there is no mention of Lords...its in Jon XIII in ADWD

[@thc3704]

idk if you know who the if I'm not mistaken I think they are the 27 or something sentinels the one of the sentinels when they went awol suggested they go to his dad's castle keep or whatever well they got there and the guys father ended up taking then back to the wall at the night fort I think we'll the nights king or whom ever the commander was at that time dug holes in the ice and sealed them all into the holes the facing north so they couldn't abandon their watch again. well some years later that same Lord that brought his son and the others back came and took the black so he could spend what years he had left there close to his son and Lord blood raven

[@clare9621]

Is anyone else still mourning the skinchanger bear-man hybrid baby possibilities? Because man... magic bear babies... everyone is just a bear skin changer... humans concieved as bears... idk it made more sense the first time through.

[@deployeddadtv699]

I'm curious how you reconcile between the Andals slaughtering the CoF and chopping down weirwoods (knowing who the real enemy was, as you say) compared to your later lying POS Andals series, where it sounds like both the CoF and the Andals would be on the dark side of your yin/yang theory. Have you changed positions or do you think the Andals/citadel/faith may have changed alliegences? Great videos, you guys are awesome. I hope you're right because it would be epic to see the conspiracy of the order of the green hand come about in the books.

[@grayjackgaming1746]

Amazing channel. Btw, do you guys play any mmorpgs?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you...I'm not much of a gamer...I play FIFA and occasionally play Call of Duty when I need to blow off some steam

[@madadhthewolfhound1623]

If there's anyone who can convince me illirio is saalador San its the order of the green hand. Please try. And thank you your videos are as detailed as they come

[@MrStoitchkov8]

FUCKING love your videos!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you...we try

[@laurak1545]

Do we know exactly when Jeor took the black - before, during or after Robert's rebellion?

[@vlpinfinity9448]

Will you guys do a video about the theory that Varys is a black fire and the whole young Griff thing is all a part of a black fire rebellion?

[@nexishadow]

Ominous cliff hanger ending. I like it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

haha thank you! Happy New Year.

[@babybalrog]

No mention of the Lynesse Hightower - Jorah Mormont marriage? Could it have been a set up to remove Jorah because he wasn't suitable to bring into the plot? Maege - Tormund has been theorized before, but I wonder if what you're adding leads to more longer term conclusions then a one nighter. What anout Tormund's 4 sons and daughter? Also my Meage or by a wildling woman?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think he has the sons and she has the daughters, all of them are theirs

[@babybalrog]

Tormund has at least one daughter, Munda. She marries some Northern lord in Dance. What I was trying to get at: is there any evidence that his sons are Mormonts? One of his sons dies in Stannis's attack. Not very good planning if you are in conspiracy with each other.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

During Stannis' attack, his sons know southern battle tactics and set up a spear wall. They aren't mentioned much besides that. It seems possible that his daughter that was with him isn't maege's

[@oldnewdude9095]

Just watched this again thanks for all your videos .. why did Jeor range north with most of his men if he was in on the plan to stop the children of the forest

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

Also I disagree with the notion that Leyton Hightower will stop Euron, there's no way GRRM builds up the Crow's Eye like he did in The Forsaken chapter for him to fail that soon, like Melisandre said "I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide. That is where the heaviest blow will fall." I have a strong feeling that's Oldtown and we know Euron will be coming on a sea of blood, he's going to cause some serious damage before he's stopped & he's clearly being built up as a worthy adversary for Daenerys. It's far more likely that he'll conquer Oldtown, maybe even take Sam prisoner and blow the Horn of Joruman which Sam still carries (if you believe that small black & bronze horn Jon found is the real deal).

[@NorthernXY]

Pirates are pirates, they're not enlisted men. They make a living off of plunder, which is how Stannis is employing them. In essence Salahdor is a privateer. Otherwise good stuff.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

That would be true if salador got paid. But he didn't. And stuck around anyway

[@Mofi357]

not enlisted but enlightened,

[@lwandilemsiza8027]

Another Great Video 👍 One Question, Maege and Tormont/Hightower relationship is it mere speculation or is their evidence of this?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Lwandile Msiza he refers to his baby mama as a she-bear and she won't tell anyone who her baby daddy is. He only has sons and she only has daughters. There's more too but it's been a while since we did this and that's what I can remember off the top of my head

[@lwandilemsiza8027]

The Order of the Green Hand I'll have to re-read and pick up on this 👍👍 Great Video, Very Well Thought Out

[@officialmartian]

Is a video down? Can't find one in the playlist that mentions Dalla being John sister ?

[@210SAi]

No they theorize that Dalla is Mance/Dayne’s wife

[@thehouseofdragon5226]

Another Great Video 👍 This is interesting, could you show me evidence that Maege Mormont and Gerold Hightower met at the tournament celebrating the birth of Viserys or in at tourney 10th ann iversary ??? Plz reply +TheOrderOfTheGreenHand

[@bundibird3213]

I thought Jeor took the black bc Jorah sold men into slavery and was sentenced to the Wall for it, but fled to Essos instead of see his punishment through, so Jeor felt honourbound to go to the wall in his stead? Is that not a thing? (Amazing videos, btw; I've been binge-listening while doing boring work stuff and your fresh and original theories are making the tedious work nonsense far more enjoyable!!)

[@kristijankresnik7724]

U are building up this theory very crazy and good :D But the whole thing with Valyria? Why would cotf have any problems with the Valyrian freehold? You said something about mining?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

The children of the forest live in underground caves and caverns...Mining would likely use these tunnels so they wouldn't have to dig them themselves, therefore began displacing them from their homes...there are like 10 more reasons for them to do it but we're doing a collaborative video with TeflonTV and we promised to save some of our material for it

[@thc3704]

how would the children be able to do the water hammer in valyria when they are in westeros I just don't get it really unless your saying there was children mining in valyria but that hasn't been mentioned

[@kristijankresnik7724]

thc3 Well, it is possible that cotf are also living in the Essos. In the woods as it is said in the video or in the underground caverns. But in the show cotf never struck me as people hating race...

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Take a look at the look Leaf is giving Bran in our cover photo and tell me that's a race that likes humans

[@Lucas-zz4es]

Guys.... plus Thormund is called "husband to bears". The women of Bear Island... Maege is a bear and the text says they dont have a husband or dont say who their husbands are...can´t recall exactly.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I thought we included the Husband to bears line in there...if we didn't, it was a major oversight

[@clare9621]

Also raise your hand if you're not sure anymore who's side the Hightowers are on

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we think that once the Targaryens broke the power of the Faith and moved the High Septon to King's Landing, the Hightowers went through a sort of "re-awakening"

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

Why does Lord Commander Mormont have such contempt for his sister? If I recall rightly didn't Tormud once have a kinky encounter with a She Bear? Maybe..... Edit; wrote this at the 5:18 mark, when I refer to Tormund I mean Tormund, not Gerold as I still don't believe he's Tormund. Also I never thought of the black stone in that strategic way before, it does seem almost like a defence against the Children of the Forest & the Others, nice catch there, very interesting idea indeed.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

I played the playlist, so the order should be correct, but a video is missing. Last video that played said at the end that you would talk about the wildling princess and you left a clue - the coin found in galoer's cell and this one begins with saying you explained who the wildling princess actually is This is not the first time it happens Could you please leave the previous and next video in the description of the current one?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think it's a few videos after this one

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

I found it eventually 🌝 Not that lazy 😸I just think it would be uber useful cause sometimes playlists are missing videos needed to comprehend the whole story of the playlist

[@multidiverse]

Okay....I need a She-Bear/White Bull Video...please and thank you.

[@Spiderdudu83]

I have one question. I had the personal Theory that Stannis may be not Azor Ahai but rather the Lightbringer and the Future Hand for Azor Ahai. With your theories, that sound really believable, could it maybe be that Stannis Lightbringer is in fact Dawn? As far as I remember, we never hear about what kind of blade Stannis Lightbringer is, while it could be fitting that Melisandre and Mance gave Stannis Dawn, the ancestral Sword of the House Dayne. It would be the proof that Mance is in fact Arthur Dayne and a pledge for Stannis to trust him, as Arthur gave him the greatest Treasure of his family. With Arthur Dayne giving Dawn to Stannis to wield, even a skeptical man who lost all faith as teenager like Stannis would see that things a really serious. I also think that the Azor Ahai Prophecy could be a trap of the Children of the Others, to lead humanity into further fight against the Others. I'm 100% sure that Song of Ice and Fire that the Prince who was promised will be the way that there can be peace and even love between humans and others. And I believe that the true reason that the Starks of Winterfell chose to be burried in crypts rather than under weirwood tries, like it is usually the case in the faith of the old gods, is to protect a hidden secret from the past. Maybe the secret of the Night's King, whom I believed was a hero who wanted to unite humanity and others. Maybe the secret that the Night's King and his cold Queen had a Child.

[@made-line7627]

So, do you guys think that the Doom was caused by the Children taking vengeance due to their underground homes being mined and leaving them displaced, or because they tried to do a second "Breaking" (of the Arm of Dorne) to stop the influx of Andals/First Men coming through the middle part of Westeros (the Neck) and unwittingly caused the Doom? I've heard both theories presented on your videos, and I just want to know if you think it's one or the other, or if you kind of combine the two together (as both options concern the Children)?

[@thc3704]

green hand another thing I want to ask is if you have seen any theory videos about why small Jon went as far as he did when he betrayed the starks I know in the show the freys had the great Jon which was one of the most loyal stark banner men but small Jon got rickon killed his dire wolf gave them to Ramsey but in the book small Jon died fighting the freys at the wedding defending Robb which makes more sense than him giving rickon to Ramsey killing shaggy dog (the head still didn't look big enough) but the shows potrayal of this makes no sense small Jon could of fucked Ramsey up he could of swore fealty and still hid rickon got Ramsey on the battlefield and killed him and had the jump on the bolten army but idk I know im completely off subject I just wanted to make a suggestion for a future video if it interest you enough I guess

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

A) I also thought the head was way too small B) I literally haven't the slightest idea what the show producers were doing having the Umbers betray the Starks...It seems to me that there is a 0% chance that will happen in the books...they're all in with Stannis to kill every Bolton they can get their hands on...we totally expected them to turn on Ramsey...we kept waiting for it to happen but it never did

[@thc3704]

I know i was waiting too I figured they had shaggy dog and him and ghost was gonna mess shit up and small Jon was gonna be the one to get Ramsey I thought the wildling chick that was with rickon was a accident I couldn't believe it neither it blew my mind knowing they was supposed to be so loyal I understand putting on a front until the right moment but small Jon is a bitch, tormond showed his ass tho. but yea in the book they stay tru I didn't think they was going to until stannis showed up but they did, which you never know maybe in winds of winter they will turn on stannis and that's how stannis will end up dying

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we kept waiting for it too. we thought it was a big trap and sj umber was going to come through. we're still upset they didn't even give the kid who plays Rickon even one line on camera... :-0

[@cantstopmygo420]

I can't site it but I do remember reading about how The Mormonts will sometimes take the Black when they feel its safe to pass their lands onto their sons. I do believe the lord commander took the black before his son was exiled from Westeros.

[@cantstopmygo420]

It is still considered a Honorable act for them and The Mormonts are often seen in leadership positions in the watch.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I just went through every Mormont note we have, as well as all of the other resources we use to make our videos and I can't find that...I'd love to see it if you can remember where it came from however...we don't like loose ends in our theories ;)

[@ariki9797]

The North often has members of its elderly male population leave the home and expose themselves to the cold during winter to reserve food and essential supplies for the younger members of that family. The further north you go the stronger this custom is held Bear Island is one the poorest and most Northern territories of the North. So likely Jorah didn’t want to further strain the few supplies his holding have on an old man like him but still desires honour. Lords still to this day swear the black especially in the north

[@Ryeguy123a]

I would love to get a video just on the children of the forest, or if there is one, does it have a non-obvious name? (I've looked for one, but haven't seen it.) I haven't seen many other places on the internet where the children of the forest are looked at as the primary antagonists, but my interests are piqued.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we haven't done a Children-specific video but we expand on them more in our Bloodraven videos and at least one or two of our Faceless Men videos...We don't view the Children as the primary antagonists, but more like one major piece in the arsenal of the forces of death in the coming struggle, but they are creepy little creatures of the night...we see the coming battle as a very Manichean (Black vs White, Life vs Death, Light vs Dark) struggle with mythological inspiration in terms of the magic that will be at play

[@francisbartoszewski5504]

in a previous video you say how Mance didn't claim to be a wildling to the wildlings because he would be found out, so how did Gerald Hightower manage it as Tormund?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

He didn't do it very well...which is probably why he sticks with Mance almost all the time....being a great fighter doesn't hurt much either

[@madadhthewolfhound1623]

Remember as well jeors last words to Sam he asked him to ask jorah to join the watch do you think it was just a final request or something more

[@_Brohan]

did you guys say that the west of westeros (bear island, iron islands, casterly rock) is the east?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

that was definitely not one of our finer moments

[@madadhthewolfhound1623]

If jeor joined the watch after jorahs dishonour then he left bear island without a male heir. Did he leave before or after jorah left

[@kelleycondon6504]

in a world of Ice and Fire there's a whole big thing that talks about the Doom of valyria and how the valerians had forgotten to form of magic that would quell the volcanoes and how eventually the magic was forgotten and there was no way to renew it and eventually the Spells got old and the volcanoes erupted in a gigantic pressure letting I really don't think the children of the forest were able to blow valyria up

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

There's also an author's annotation that suggests what we've suggested here and is better explained in our first Faceless Men video

[@wesleyostergren951]

When they (the faceless men I think) were talking about the slaves of valyria, they mentioned the slaves encountered giant fire worms in the mines. I have read theories that worms were used in hardholme as a test for using them for the doom of valyria. Controlling these "animals" fits the methods of the children, as I agree with preston jacobs assertion that there is no magic other than telepathy and telekinesis. Also I assume you consider bloodraven to be a captive and controlled by the children or he could be the one directing things like Mance meeting up with Robert's entourage. I personally can't figure out what Bloodraven is doing. Is he helping the children? Are the children manipulating him? Is he involved with "rebellious" children?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We're pretty sure he's a captive...and he definitely appears to be working with Mance/Arthur...we think that's why he has raven's wings on his helmet

[@wesleyostergren951]

If he is a captive, then why is he bringing Bran North? Why are they allowing him access to the weirwoods? And why are they allowing him to communicate with the people that are trying to defeat them?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

He didn't...read the chapter again where Bran meets him...sorry that's all I can give you at the moment because it's going to be in one of our videos

[@larryhoyt5834]

Is the black stone under the major fortresses Dragon Glass?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we think it is something other than dragon glass...its likely going to make its way into one of our next two videos

[@PizzaBoy509]

So what your saying is benjen and jior mormont took the black at the same time?? Seems like jior took the black way before benjen to me

[@aceskip8691]

Lyanna at winterfell during the rebellion lol..

[@ratgirl34]

In the books he said he took the black after his son brought shame to the family and fled rather than face justice for his actions? Am I the only one who remembers this being said?

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

How do we know Leyton is reading a book of spells, and exclusively that and nothing else for ten years? We know he's never come down from his tower in that time but how do we know what he's been doing behind those walls and closed doors?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We don't know for certain, but it is the only information given about the man, which got me to thinking about what could possess someone to do that...an impending Long Night seems to me to be a good reason to study the heck out of some old spell book to try and figure out what magic could stop them (especially since it seems likely that the Hightower family has a reputation for being sorcerers)

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

I just can't think of any source where it says he's reading a spell book, other than this vid. I like the idea, but i would need it to be based on facts to hold any water.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

That's what it says he's doing in the World of Ice and Fire App

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

Ah cool. Is that only for apple devices? I looked for it on android and ican't find it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

good morning! i'm not sure but check out this link, it says on here that you can use it on devices other than iOs. www.georgerrmartin.com/grrm_book/george-r-r-martins-a-world-of-ice-and-fire-mobile-app/

[@show-ww8mt]

was keeping Jon Snow close to Mance (his uncle) part of the plan? that would make Benjen Stark a small ally, because it was him to lure Jon into the night's watch

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Benjen tried to talk Jon out of going

[@dayveonharris33]

show2342 Well Ned allowed him to join I think hehe...so this might have been Ned's plan all along.

[@jillonio]

Do you think Jorah being able to marry a Hightower fits in anywhere?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I find it suspicious that the Hightowers said yes to his proposal when the Mormonts are far below their stature, and marrying off your prettiest daughter to them had to get them something...like access to Bear Island for Gerold and co to travel back and forth down the western side of westeros

[@meadprinceofruddyhall1265]

good series. why does this video seem to cut you off at the end?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We were going for a cliff hanger ending. We have a lot more but it's going to be in our collaborative video with Toni Teflon. It'll be out later this week

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

22:16 I thought the general idea was that the Andals are in alliance with the children of the forest and the faceless men and the faith of the seven and the maesters, considering they all worship death?