Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | The Wars to Come | Kingsguard's Unlikely Allies

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Part 3 of The Wars to Come: An Introduction to the Tower of Joy Kingsguard's Unlikely Allies.
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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[@hjalleluja]

It's also really fitting with Jon fighting "The Lord of Bones" considering all the talk about Arthur Daynes bones never being returned to Starfall.

[@striker8961]

That is actually super sus

[@itstrbo]

Finally a channel with theories for us book readers

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

the books are the only thing worth theorizing about

[@vincenzodellama7158]

The Order of the Green Hand is it possible that Stannis is a fire wight? The descriptions of him in the books keep getting more skeletal as the chapters go by.

[@made-line7627]

@@vincenzodellama7158 When did he die?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

💯

[@andrewlevin6331]

Preston Jacobs also only talks about the books

[@Williawr1]

When you brought up the story Mance told Jon and Melisandre's connection I audibly said "Holy fuck!" Consider me convinced. Martin loves doing this kind of stuff.

[@williamdaniels9728]

These are probably some of the most compelling and well thought out GOT theories I have ever heard. Not just purley speculative but based on actual book passages. Bravo. I never picked up any of this on my first read though, GRR Martin is truly a phenomenal writer and leaver of clues and subplots. He does it so deftly. Unfortunately I'm disappointed to know that most of this will never play out during the show as they show and books already seemed to have diverged from each other. I have an appreciation for both art forms but the books will always remain supreme as they are the inspiration from which the shows draws from. Here is to hoping we someday get 7 movies or a rebooted TV show but the book story will forever live on in my mind. I think it's absolutely criminal you guys don't have more followers yet and look forward to you doing any other theories or subplots you can think of. You should know you are truly appreciated from nerds like myself who like to put on your video on while drinking an ale and making dinner. Thank you.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...we're trying to stay positive in our hopes that the show and the books will get back on the same page next season...we think/ hope the delay in the show was meant to give GRRM enough time to release TWOW, so they can stop making stuff up and get down to business...and we're just getting started...we have a lot of theories that we haven't put out yet and a few that we've been working on...GRRM is the best writer I've ever read...this is the most epic story ever told and the size and scope of the world he has created for us, coupled with the incredible detail he provides leaves so many mysteries still to uncover

[@williamdaniels9728]

Thank YOU so much. It can't be easy to compile all of this and make a video series out of it. Most KZbinrs just make a quick 5 minute video or a 60 minute video where they drone on about the same stuff but you guys have hit a perfect medium. Your videos are very concise. You can rest assured I will be eagerly be awaiting the next video. I truly think you guys are on to something when it comes to the books and order of the green hand. I have read and watched MANY GOT fan theories, the mainstream ones and the more obscure ones and this is the first one that I hadn't heard or read and actually surprised me to the point that made me re-think GOT and what GRR Martin might be trying to subtly sneak on his fans. It seems to be a plot line or conspiracy that runs secretly through his books. He is after all, a master of mis-direction. I am so excited for the next book because I think he is finally embracing that while the show is based on his source material, it will ultimately have to play out differently from how he wants to conclude his book stories and that he can't be beholden to what plays out on TV. There is no way the show could ever reach the depth of what he wants to tell unless they had extended the show to 15 seasons minimum and I don't think Dan & Dave are in it for the long haul. Working with HBO budgets, unfinished story lines and actors who want to move on to other projects it's just a bit sad but understandable that they want do justice to a good ending in an age where most amazing shows end up having weak series finales I think they will deliver something special. They do have such a reverance for the source material. They and GRR Martin have given us a gift of what the GOT can be on screen and I think they have ensured that this fandom will live on for generations to come in many different interations. Once again, many thanks! 

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Unfortunately I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of the show and the people who are making it...they have gotten increasingly sloppy in their depiction and have been blowing through the story and leaving the little details that tie the whole story together out...instead, it looks like they are going to give us what GRRM feared would happen if he let someone turn his books into movies, and give us a story that completely revolves around Dany and Jon, as if a task of this magnitude could be accomplished by only two people, but that looks like what we're going to get

[@brj83]

The Order of the Green Hand I've been re-reading the books and I've noticed that any mention of a bag of silver implied the need for secrecy as if a bag of silver is code for hush money.

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

William Daniels newer doesn't always equal better just look at Pokemon.

[@ReeceDee]

I keep telling people there is no way that someone that writes such complex and layered narrative would have the biggest reveal in the series being doomed Prince falls in love with betrothed maid and war tears country apart. That's just so hokey and cliché fantasy 101. George would never do that. oh he's a bastard so he'll make most of the fandom think that's what he's done but it's a big old Red herring. lol

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Reece d exactly our sentiments !

[@mmc51660]

2nd evening binge watching your Chanel. Love how you spell things and events out. I feel as if watching great attorneys explaining to juries how their client is innocent from the defense or guilty from the prosecution and the jury is enthralled. I am enthralled! Awesome work! My bf tolerates my serious interest in the books and show. How nice that you have each other to discuss, study, and just enjoy this together.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...it's really funny that you said that because when we were first getting started, we decided to share our theories by building a narrative, instead of just bouncing around and talking about whatever is fascinating us about the story at any given moment, and when one of my friends asked me how we planned to do it I said that we were approaching it very academically, and plan on trying to present it the way a lawyer would build a case, by starting with the timeline of events, then filling in the gaps with evidence from the books. You have no idea how much it made our day that you said that because that was exactly what we were going for...thanks for watching and tell your bf to get with it and read the books, bc if he does, there is no way he won't get into it...we took turns reading chapters out loud, and by that I mean she read like 4/5 chapters. By doing that you, A) get him into the books without him having to put the effort of reading 6000 pages himself and B) it makes read every single word, and then you can talk about it as you go. Thanks again and keep watching. :)

[@SaneMillennial]

Wow, more unlikely connections I've never heard anyone talk about before! I'm definitely going to be thinking on this as I keep reading and re-reading.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We noticed some of these things the first time through but when you go back through a second time with this in mind so many things practically jump off the page at you and much earlier into the story than you could even believe

[@tomaszprzyby784]

I do questioned why Mel thinks that Stannis is hero of legends. I actually never connected Mance's young healer story with Melisandre. Nice catch!

[@freekodakblack6473]

You either love Stannis the Mannis or you hate him.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we are in the love him category

[@freekodakblack6473]

The Order of the Green Hand I’m Still waiting on the five part documentary of Stannis the Mannis.

[@Wo0ody]

I keep hearing what sounds like a nail being hit on the head. Keep up the great work.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Well thank you! :D

[@GerryBolger]

You do realise that if (when) this theory is confirmed in the books this channel will blow up right?Although I mightn't agree with every part of the 'Wars to come' theory, you have certainly presented enough evidence to support it partially at least.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...we're already more successful than we ever dreamed possible when we started a few months ago, so that is something we can't even imagine...

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

GerryBolger oh yeah though I don't agree on everything as well I mean if Val was Jons sister then let's be honest she would have been raised in Winterfell.

[@Damon-xf4kt]

Let's be be honest.ned wouldn't want both of his children's lives ruined by bastardy one's enough. 2 b honest.

[@kaylew108]

Love your videos. You bring up real questions I had reading the books, and more that I didn't even think about. And the theories are actually convincing. Other youtube channels talk about the same old stuff, R+L=J, or saying that Mance is really Raeghar, which is nonsense. Ive watched all your videos, and you definitely earned my subscription.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@madarauchiha-xx5gp]

In the last second of the video i was like "OOHHHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!" My eyes literally gauged out of my eye socket as much as humanly possible. Holy shit. I love you guys..

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...that's the exact response we had when we noticed it

[@made-line7627]

Where does the "Melanie, Lot 7" thing fit into the Melisandre = Shierra theory? I'm of the opinion (which I first heard put forth by Gray Area) that she's from beyond the Wall, possibly from Hardhome or a village nearby, and was taken by slavers about six hundred years previously when Hardhome was attacked. It's a shame, because it would be awesome if she *was* Shierra, but perhaps Shierra is Quiathe; still a secret character 🤞

[@thc3704]

I think the fires that burnt from dusk till dawn was meant to help keep the white walkers back

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Exactly...we think that custom of the worshipers of R'hllor stems from the original Long Night...worshiping fire seems to us to be a religion that would come into existence in response to a 30 year winter night

[@thc3704]

that sounds kinda right

[@alexmuller6752]

loving the constant shade throwing at alliser thorne

[@privatepigeon4943]

The one thing that makes me question Melisandre being Shierra Seastar is that one Melisandre POV chapter where she looks into the flames and sees an old man staring back with a thousand eyes and a young boy with wolf's head. If she really is Shierra, wouldn't she have recognised bloodraven? If not by appearance then at least through symbolism. That's the only thing that makes me question your theory. Other than that, it's incredibly well thought out and researched.

[@MrDarkkamui]

I just can't get enough of your videos guys! Very well done and truly fascinating theories. I am sorry to hear that you had some trouble with trolls and idiots but don't let them get to you. I thank you both for taking the time to make these videos and talk about this amazing story. Stay awesome!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...we're fine...you stay awesome as well

[@thisguy8106]

I love going through and catching up on some of y'all's best theory videos

[@akashaphinehas3722]

Stannis may be rigid, but he's truly one of the funniest characters in the books. love STANNIS! AND UOU BOTH TOO. THIS IS AMAZING

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you. We really liked Stannis before, but after we made the video, I absolutely loved him. Top 5 favorite character! And thank you so much!!!

[@derkaltefisch]

And i thought i knew Game of Thrones :-) , i am sure your kingsguard stuff is spot on

[@MistaSmith]

Melissandre 2017: "Did you just assume my agenda?"

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+MistaSmith haha... I believe we did

[@morellanaghenz778]

Good work on this channel. Your theories are always well thought out and are supported by the text itself. Your hard work is appreciated!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you very much

[@peterfontaine2057]

Always enjoy your videos, very thought provoking. Dont agree with all of it, but definitly got me thinking...would love to be able to talk ASOIAF with you guys! Looking forward to the next one...ps i think i might know where youre going now with that hint you gave me before.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you!!! ahhh, good job! if you do wanna talk more about that, or whatever, send us a private message. :)

[@peterfontaine2057]

I would love to, send it to your gmail account, email?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We finally got around to making social media pages...Send us a Facebook message

[@peterfontaine2057]

Sounds good

[@moostyberghein4725]

Wow guys i watched allot of asoiaf vids and these are the best so far along with pj you deserve more subs x.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Moos Tyberghein thank you ! We are fairly new still, but are really enjoying the whole experience. We'd love more subscribers ! Haha thanks again.

[@hvz4ever]

My jaw literally dropped when you brought up the coin. It's been bugging me ever since I noticed it on my second read through.

[@Jennifer-di4nl]

I can not believe you are the ONLY people who have figured out the ending. GRRM is really a genius.

[@davidhenderson441]

I just wanted to let you 2 know I love your vids. I just discovered them last week and started Benge watching them. I don't know how anyone could be smart enough to put the these theories together but it genius. Thank you and I really hope you'll are right. These are by far the best theories I've hear. Thank you again for uploading

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...that is so nice of you to say...I don't know about genius...there's two of us, which gives us an inherent advantage because we get to bounce an idea back and forth until it clicks for one or both of us...plus the story and the details GRRM provides are so incredibly captivating it makes it so fun to try and figure it out...

[@jim8045]

I've read the books when they came out since the eighth grade, and not really looked at again. These points you are making could not have been put together by a fan like me. The intervals between books are to long. You are taking all the threads and weaving them together as it appears they are intended to be. Any more thoughts on the Mannis since the part one of his life? Thank you, great job and keep it up!

[@bradwolf07]

I've always liked Lord Manderly. Fat Lord is sharp as a tact and a loyal beyond compare. The enemies of the North (ie Boltons and Freys) think they have him stuck under their thumbs, but he is playing then like a fiddle; it's a dangerous game, but that is to be expected in the Game of Thrones

[@stephengrosh5805]

can't wait until the next one

[@gregorytaplin3166]

You two are amazing. I have read the series twice and NEVER made any of these connections. I crave for someone to talk to about these theories. You two satisfy that source. Thank you for your hard work!!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you for watching

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

I sort of overlooked the Order of the Green Hand in the books but after watching this I agree they probably do serve a larger purpose for the story. As for Melisandre being Shiera Seastar I'm not convinced, I believe Mel is from Essos & was sold into slavery as a child like she says. There's something very specific she recalls in her POV chapter; 'Lot Seven' and the name Melony which relates to her backstory. Then in the proceeding Tyrion chapter we hear a very similar thing spoken by one of the slave traders who's selling Tyrion & Jorah off, believe it's something to do with 'Lot Nine' & for me it's pretty clear from that she's not lying about being sold into slavery. And as for the connection between Mance & Lord Manderly I'm not convinced either, as yet again the evidence for most of the things you bring up in this video are still only coincidental at best. This theory is very elaborate and creative but it lacks any solid evidence so far.

[@Lucas-zz4es]

I´ve been watching your videos for the second time. Wow. They are better the 2nd time around!. I appreciate how much time and effort you must have put into them. Thanks so much for the "clarity" especially now that the show has turned to be so disappointing on many plot lines. I am also re-reading the books now and kicking myself for not noticing so many gemstones. Thanks for your work and congrats on the best channel on GoT!!!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much!

[@ith0rn329]

TOP NOTCH!! YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME I'm loving the vids can't believe its taken me so long to find you guys

[@Capueiro]

just stumbled across your channel... as I read the asoiaf-series in two languages (german and english), I always had that feeling, that I keep missing certain connections or hints (basically because I read the terrible german translation first, as I've never "conquested" a series of books in english like asoiaf before and reading this much content twice and in different languages doesn't make it easier) ... as some other users stated before - please keep up that awesome work... cheers from austria

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@prof.cecilycogsworth3204]

Well done, for reading it in English. Like LOTR, ASOIAF lose just about everything that makes it special, in translation

[@britelikeadiamond]

well Sam is a tarally right ? so he is a great hand desendent , I guess gendry is to being he is Robert berathion Bastard son supposedly!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

yes he is

[@senmafugu]

Here we go!

[@christophergibson9337]

Commenting to support yaw!! Keep grinding!!!

[@dengy32]

I love the idea that Mel is Seastar but what about the memory she has in her POV chapter "melanie lot 7" or something like that. You are far and away my favorite youtube channel!! you have made me reread the books more than once.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we have a few theories regarding her thoughts on Lot 7...she seems to want to fix something that happened there...we're going to do a video on it when we find time

[@dengy32]

I can't wait!

[@Bluemilk92]

I'm *so* glad a found you guys, I admit that I'm so simple that I could watch a theory video and by the end be so sure it's true, and then watch another that contradicts it and end up changing my mind. This is why I can't watch movie reviews, they are so well argued they change the way I view a move I previously liked. Honestly my entire view of the series will generally vary from video to video. Then eventually, after much Preston, Ideas of I&F, Alt Shit X, Secrets of the Citadel, Westeros History, Radio Westeros, Vassals of Kinggrave, and dozens of others I eventually had some rough idea on how I believed the world of ASoIaF functioned and where the story was going that was a mash of everyone else's. THEN, after this, I found your channel and to my surprise found your ideas line up perfectly with mine. I know this sounds strange due to the work you guys do but for the first time it felt like my ideas, not another's that you guys put the hard work into elaborating on. I hope that makes sense and doesn't just sound like a claim to your ideas. You're original, just for the first time, some others original and my original align.

[@kcwilliams8616]

Awesome theory and evidence guys. Keep it up!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+kevin williams Thank you so much. We will

[@shenwhiteford4954]

Aw, you're killing me! Well, I'm highly anticipating your next video. Might be all I have to sustain me until The Winds of Winter :P Good work, team!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Shennan Whiteford Thank you. We're already working on the next one

[@shawnyetman6875]

good work. love your theory's. veey well done and thought out

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@ammorgan12]

I love your theories and listen to them often. Just noticed something, at 10:17 you mention Stannis being king. But Robert was still alive. Did they suspect that the incest rumors would lead to his death?

[@gershmuch9044]

Seriously amazing video!!!!!

[@SteveM000100]

Ah I see, the Order of the Green Hand may play a crucial role in future books, hence your name. I like your thinking :D I end up watching these multiple times because a lot goes over my head lol but I'm getting there.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you...We spent a lot of time going back and forth about the name...we knew we liked The Wolf's Den and The Order of the Green Hand, but couldn't decide which to use...then we decided that since we believe The Order meets at the Wolf's Den we would Call ourselves The Order of the Green Hand and say that we're broadcasting from The Wolf's Den

[@SteveM000100]

It's a good setup, catchy and memorable :) I love the fact that if your suspicions are correct, and it becomes something majorly important in the future, everyone will be talking about it etc, and you'll already be all setup to reap the benefits :)

[@SteveM000100]

The Wolf's Den just sounds like a cool place....

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we were hoping it would work out that way...and the wolf's den (the real one in the books) is something that Lady Green Hand became convinced was important because George chose to have it built by a king of the north named Jon Stark...while we were digging about it, I noticed the Order existed, and immediately looked up everything I could find about them, and noticed that the criteria for membership seems identical to the criteria the Daynes use to appoint a Sword of the Morning...at that point we were convinced enough that we were onto something big to ask George, and he confirmed the Order will play a part going forward...at that point we were ecstatic because we knew we were the only people on earth who noticed them

[@Jockeylotforfun]

The Order of the Green Hand , may I ask about your connection with George? I'm amazed that he is responding to your questions, and I think that says a lot about your channel. may I also ask if the gentleman is a professional speaker, or in the media? Both of you do a tremendous job with the presentation, but the man's voice is superb.

[@flawkolopez6565]

Love yalls content even if I don't agree with some of the theories. I just think there's going to be so many secret identities but your research and presentation is top notch. You know, everyone days George is known for subverting tropes and that's why a lot if things won't happen but what if he decides to subvert that and start using normal Fantasy tropes? Anyhoo, just subbed and I look forward to not only your future videos but going back and watching the older ones. Like series which is fantastic btw. Good shit guys!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much!

[@ChristieLily35]

So even though I don't agree with all of your theories. I still enjoy them very much because there is some actual thought put into them and they are possible, even if some are unlikely.

[@QueenDaenerysTargaryen]

Great work💯!!

[@serbowdster2311]

Nice touch with the ending of the vid.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@Gielea]

How many people are on your research team? I've seen hours of videos from The Order of the Green Hand and have only heard two voices. While the theories are fluid and well backed from the books and series the knowledge which tells me it was conceived from the mind of just a few people. However, the vastness of knowledge and meticulous detail tells me there's got to be more of you collaborating on this. I am quite impressed. Whether your theories are right or wrong they are well backed and hard to argue against. Keep up the great work!!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

its just the two of us, and Lady Green Hand is a PhD and the best researcher I've ever seen...any time I ask her about something, she has a 10 page doc on it like 15 minutes later...how she does it I will probably never understand...then we take all the information and put it together, and draw a conclusion based on what information is available to us

[@Gielea]

I would say Lady Green Hand is the most astute observer that I've never met.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

she's quite a little lady

[@siomhe8539]

So, just had to add my two cents. Durrandon is a reference to Tolkien, who was British. I lived for several years, a couple of miles from his home. THAT pronunciation is DUR-run-dun. If you care :) Great video.

[@made-line7627]

Yeah, that's how I'd pronounce it. Dur-ANN-don is too...."modern" isn't the right word, but it's something like that. It's just a little off

[@cygnusatratus]

Might the "red silk in the black cloak" of Mance/Arthur also be metaphorical? Mance was so badly wounded, his companions thought he would die - after all he lost more blood than the elk ;) Maybe he did die in the sorceress'/Melisandre's hut and she resurrected him. She might have then told him (knowing who he is) about the help the Lord of Light might provide in the Wars to Come and also about her thoughts on Azor Ahai. Mance thus started to believe in R'hllor - giving him "red streaks" in his otherwise black cloak/belief system. Not beeing able to wear the cloak he wants always seemed like a feeble reason to leave the Night's Watch. But not beeing able to follow your beliefs and religion? When knowing that the Lord of Light is important for the Wars to Come? Seems like a decent reason to leave. Also since we know there to be a bit of truth in many stories, maybe the "wreck of a cog that washed up on the Frozen Shore" is how Melisandre got there in the first place? A lot of might an could and maybe, but hey, why not :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I'll tell you what...I like almost all of that...we found something in the app that completely confirms that Mance was a worshiper of the Lord of Light and that ties directly into it

[@cygnusatratus]

right? but alas, I think the problem is, people are going so crazy over theories and ifs and coulds (no offence, after all this includes myself) you start seeing possibilities EVERYWHERE :) Won't it be terrible when we finally have the last books in our hands only to find out that so many of those theories are... well, bs :D Oh, well, it's still a fun thing to do to pass the time until GRRM finally gets a move on

[@TheSomewhereElse]

can't wait until the next video

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@thelastbrickbender2139]

2:50 okay I would actually love a white lotus reveal in these books

[@looshbandit7926]

another great video!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@madadhthewolfhound1623]

Two heads are better than one for sure. You two miss fuck all. Much appreciated

[@sandiaYpescado]

you guys rule. thank you. thank you. thank you.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you!! :)

[@jodiemcadams1418]

Something I found the other day. When Wymen is wounded by Hosten Frey in aDwD it is Maester Medrick that treats his wounds. The only other Medrick in the story, I think, is Ser Medrick Manderly who fought with the Black during the original Dance of Dragons. And Medrick the Maester is from Hornwood, who should have no allegiance the the Boltons. Do you think that this is a clue from GRR that Medrick is part of Wymen's plots?

[@SociaCin]

It's late and I've been watching these videos in a row, my apologies if this is made clearer in the books or I missed it here. Surely Ned would have received word of Robert's coming to Winterfell and Jon Arryn's death a lot sooner than having a few days to prepare? I always figured there was a bit of a time skip, again looking to the direwolves who seem to be more than pups by the time the king arrives.

[@theotherknight8381]

Didn't Melisandre have her own POV chapter where she saw Bloodraven but thought he was the Great Other? (I'm only ever read up to 9/10th of ACOK) True he probably looks a bit different but wouldn't she somewhat recognize him if she was Seastar?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Her vision she saw him and labeled him an instrument of the great other, not the great other himself, and I don't know how clear her visions are but I would imagine they are not HD quality, and since half the skin was gone from his face, he had leaves growing out of his head and mushrooms growing on his forehead, I would actually think it was farfetched that she recognized him 48 years removed from the last time she saw him

[@hayleyversailles6946]

At 10:01 in the video, it hit me how strange the letter was that got Stannis, Melisandre, and Davos so convinced they had to go north. They haven't been looking in flames. They've been talking to Arthur Dayne/Mance Rayder. Finishing the video now. I'm sure they will cover that with how thorough and intuitive their theories always are. If Jon Snow is resurrected in the books (which I mean duh) will it be because Blood Raven warged into him like the prologue of ADWD?

[@mammastenhjerte]

I am re-reading the books for the first time after coming across this theory and it struck me ... another unlikely ally might be lord Mormont. It is a bit long, but hear me out. It has always bothered me, why did the old bear join the Night's Watch? I am in the first half of a Storm of Swords and something clicked for me today. I have always liked the idea of Tormund Giantsbane being the (bear) father of Maege Mormonts younger daughters, and if he really is Gerold Hightower who is to say the truth did not come out over pillow talk? Maege might have told her brother, or been asked to tell him and ask him to join the Night's Watch in the hope of becoming Lord Commander. A Wiki of Ice and Fire says "Presumably prior to Robert's Rebellion", so we do not know exactly when Moromt joined the Night's Watch, but the theory could work if he joined later as he could have been recruited via Maege later. That would explain why Mormont joined the Night’s Watch, and why he had the terrible idea of stripping the wall of men to go looking for Benjen and the other missing brothers. Knowing that dead men walked again is a reason to fortify the battlements, not to take the whole lot of them to go off looking. As Mance says, one man can scale the wall, but not a hundred. Mormont had to know they would be like a read beckon, and I think that was his plan. After all, as Lord Commander, Mormont had to have had a good idea of how many Wildlings there are, and he knew Mance was gathering them and being talked about as King Beyond the Wall and that this was no empty title. It was an achievement no other had managed; it is a huge deal and Mormont knew this. So why nearly empathy the wall of men and take them north? It makes no sense. I think this was the plan; Gather the force of the Night’s Watch at The Fist, send a message to Mance that we are here now, via Qhorin Halfhand, (Qhorin saw an opportunity to get Jon to his uncle) get Mance to come with all his 100,000 Wildlings to show the Night’s Watch they had absolutely no chance, and get them to understand that living men and women are not the enemy. Go back to the wall with the Wildlings, make some deal to settle them in the Gift on for some condition of serving on the wall. Every man has to serve for a number of years, or 2 members of every family for the settlement of the rest of the family, and/or that in every group of siblings for 100 years 1 will be given to the watch, or another scheme. If this had succeeded, they would have had enough to open up and run all the forts along the wall and eliminate 100,000 potential Wights. Out of the blue while out shopping, this fully formed theory just clicked in my mind today. Any takers…?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

yeah !! we said this in one of our videos too

[@protoncoccus3229]

I love this theory!! 💓

[@nealfirstofhisname]

"Imagine being able to sit a horse." -This post was made by Lord Lamprey.

[@jeffjohnson8681]

Great detail and thought, love the theory. Whether this comes true in the books or not this is accepted into head canon. haha.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

haha...much appreciated

[@Ladyblanche85]

"As a wise man once said..." - Can't. Stop. Laughing. With that "wise man" being my very favorite character, this is hilarious. :D Thanks for that!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we do what we can

[@SatyaVenugopal]

Hi there Order of the Greenhand! Loving your videos. :) I'm really curious... most theories posit that Quaithe is either Shiera Seastar or Ashara Dayne. Given that you both believe Ashara is Septa Lemore and Sheira is Melisandre (that second one I'm much less convinced by so far), who do you suspect Quaithe is?

[@familyvideoacct]

Love your page! I have been listening and watching since yesterday! hahaha loving it... Do you think the show is going a different route with the parentage of Jon? It seems that way by what was released so far, but I like your theories... Mance seems more Rhaegar like to me personally...but I guess GRRM confirmed he is for a fact dead? Or is there some way to make it that way in appearance? like a glamour? I read that before...have you totally ruled that out?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...George confirmed that Rhaegar was cremated following the Trident, which I think makes him pretty dead...the show does appear to be going in it's own direction, likely at GRRMs direction because why would he want to allow them to spoil what he hasn't even created yet? he has spent 2+ decades building this world and story, and based on the fact that has called the show licensed fan-fiction at least twice that I've seen, it seems to me that he would want them to do their own thing with it...it allows him to reveal his secrets himself, allows the show to move forward, and will likely result in massive book sales, which would have likely been negatively effected by the show spoiling it, but the controversy from people finding out they are totally different would create even more book sales than they would have had if it came out before the show "spoiled" it

[@familyvideoacct]

It will be interesting to see how both the series and the books end. Thanks for the interesting posts. I have gotten some great info I overlooked while reading and watching.

[@N1mr]

good channel !!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you James!

[@madadhthewolfhound1623]

Grey area has a theory that Mel came from hardhome as a slave when the place was destroyed. She has red eyes like a green seer and her power is strongest at the wall and she's lived years beyond count whatever that means it seems to fit but then again so do these theories. George is a genius thats the only thing that's sure

[@made-line7627]

Its the best fit, no matter how much I love and agree with the "Wars to Come" series and theory. Gotta agree with Gray, here. Mel is Mel...a greenseer from Hardhome.

[@Oliver-zy8sq]

You assume that Mance planed on meeting with Roberts convoy south of Winterfell. To me it seems as if he just met them by accident. He was south of the wall many times and if you want to travel south you take the kings road so it was inevitable to not meet them you were on your way south around that time. He also does not seem to have talked to Ned or anyone else at Winterfell and just had a good time. Why would Arthur Dayne waste all this time just to do that. Why not just meet with Ned?

[@ReeceDee]

your videos are amazing. giving me totally broader perspective to consider. you should check out essay series by weirwood leviathan where they discuss their thoughts about bloodraven engineering events to use mankind to create a unified monarchy under Dany and Jon to finally stamp out the children and the others are being sent dreams just like Dany and Jon to bring them into this conflict. it's really interesting. keep up great work. 👍

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you ...we will

[@namewastaken360]

I think it was the Lady Selyse who brought Melisandre to Stannis.

[@Awec4]

I don't buy the Mance/Stannis connection, Mance had his own plans for getting past the wall which failed, and Stannis had to be persuaded into going to help the Night's Watch by Davos. Plus, it seems like Stannis didn't really have any idea what to do after he had lost the battle of the blackwater, so he can't have had a secret plan with Mance. With that being said, Stannis would likely have recognized Arthur Dayne and I find that alone to be a compelling reason for why Stannis would have had a long conversation leading to him sparing Mance. (though if Mance was Arthur and knew Jon was his nephew, why wouldn't he tell Jon? And if he told Stannis, why would Stannis offer to legitimize Jon, an empty offer?) I think it's far more likely that Mance had a secret alliance with the Flints/Norreys or the Umbers, as it is explicitly stated that they have plenty of fighting men who didn't join Robb, and yet neither went to help the Night's Watch against the Wildlings. This would also explain why they joined Stannis.

[@ironmaidensupreme]

I am in total favor of almost everything discussed in this video. The only qualm I have is with the assumption that Melisandre is Bloodraven's bastard sister/lover. I personally think that the Quaithe theory fits better than this one... But regardless, the video is class. Keep it up!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

the problem I have with most Quaithe theories is she wears a mask and the only part of her face that is visible is her eyes, yet Dany makes no mention of them being either Purple (for those who claim she is Ashara or Rhaella), or one blue one green (Shiera Seastar)...I also do not see her as a character that is helping...the rest I will save for our video we are going to do on her in the next month or two

[@ironmaidensupreme]

I look forward to it.

[@derekwalter4238]

I really like this theory, but how would you explain the whole melony thing from melisandres chapter in dance?

[@brj83]

Did Mance discover Gorne's Way? That can explain how he moved so quickly from beyond the Wall to the North....

[@jason32742]

Mel had a vision at the wall were she was sold into slavery her real name is Melanie. So that rules out her being Shiera Seastar. I think she might be Shiera Seastar and blood ravens daughter. She looks similar to both of them

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

dono, are you talking about melony lot 7?

[@jason32742]

The Order of the Green Hand yes sorry got the wrong name

[@dustinbird9170]

She implies that she is much older than what your theory puts her at, and talks about the fact she is from ashai, and is reffered to as being from ashai multiple times, so not likely

[@jgr7487]

you guys know how to hook!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@djiboutiafrica2523]

Melisandre & Shiera Seastar both have a gem necklace, interesting!

[@eragonschmeragon8727]

The balls? What a great family name

[@deanparent9522]

Hi there what do you guys think about the " melloney from lot 7 stuff? it seems that Mel has memories of being sold?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

that is going to be included in one of our next two videos, but we have a very different take on it than most people do

[@deanparent9522]

in your view Do Varis and Ilerio have different motivations for being involved in westerosi politics other then the generally excepted r+l=j theories about black Fire pretenders? I'm enjoying these videos keep up the good work!

[@vlpinfinity9448]

So just to be clear; you're saying that the whole wildling invasion was a mummers show to get over the wall without a fight?

[@210SAi]

They needed to get south of the wall to avoid becoming white walkers

[@theM4R4T]

Mors Umber too? He has a snowbear pelt, probably given by Mance Rayder.

[@thisguy8106]

Sorry. It's me again :(. I need a little more clarity. Melisandre has a POV chapter. She SEES Bloodraven... but doesn't recognize him. She also has these weird flashback thoughts of "Mel Block 7". If she was Bloodravens lover, how does she not recognize him. And even worse, thinks he's the enemy. And also, why would she have the flashbacks of being sold as a slave if she is Bloodravens sister?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

if you saw someone you dated 50 years ago, and half her skull was showing, she had a root growing out of one of her eye sockets, mushrooms growing out of her forehead and leaves growing out of the top of her skull, would you recognize her, and more importantly, would you think what you were looking at was going to help you or hurt you, especially after realizing it saw you through your own vision? I also believe she referred to him as a wooden man, which leaves the possibility that her vision was more metaphorical and she didn't literally see him because she didn't literally see Bran either...she called him a boy with a wolf's face...Melony and Lot 7 is really interesting...I've probably read those two Lot 7 paragraphs 50 times each and the more I read them, the more it feels like she has regrets about what happened there and wants to fix something that happened there once the war to come is won

[@thisguy8106]

The Order of the Green Hand Hmmm. Solid. Super solid. So that would mean she isn't aware of Bloodraven's situation? That would have to be it.

[@thisguy8106]

The Order of the Green Hand And this is why I asked. I read it a million times but never once did that thought come to me like that. I mean, not in the way it came across to you. I felt as if something terrible happened..but I guess the idea of her being a slaved clouded my ability to see it as anything as.

[@thisguy8106]

The Order of the Green Hand Another... Stannis never sees the letter about the Wildlings attack. And says he wouldn't have come if Davos didn't bring it to him. Is Stannis lying? I mean, Mel sees things in her fires. Is Stannis lying? If he were waiting for word of the attack, surely he would have informed the Maester that anything from the Nights Watch would be a priority. Or Mel would have known when the bird was coming. As she knew with Jon.

[@thisguy8106]

The Order of the Green Hand Sorry; I know you're sick of me asking questions. But y'alls brains are too valuable not to pick at lol.. And these are the questions I have when I'm piecing together all of this. Because I believe it to be true. Of course there's always room for some error. It's a gigantic theory with a lot of moving parts but I believe y'all have it down at least 95-99%.

[@legaldinho]

This is the most fanfic fanfic ever, I flipping love it. I imagine GRRN reading this and contemplating writing it, just to spite the theory's authors when they realise that for every protagonist to be some doppelganger makes for hair-tearingly shit fiction

[@alexone5045]

Just putting it out there mance has wargs with eagles pretty sure he can get some information

[@made-line7627]

Great bloody point though!

[@chunkypythagoras1732]

Major plot twist: Orys Baratheon is Rollo

[@melanieortiz712]

I wonder if the mormonts are in on it? They share blood with the high towers. AND one of the titles given to Giantsbane is "husband of bears". Who has kids who have unknown father says they change into bears to find a mate? House Mormount.

[@allyriastark3508]

Melanie Schneiter Maege does have a relationship with Gerold Hightower/Tormund Giantsbane. They seem to have nine or ten children together, I do not think Tormund's daughter may be from Maege but could be wrong.

[@made-line7627]

If he was busy uniting the hundreds of thousands of Free Folk, how was he at the Wolf's Den? Love this theory, though questions *do* arise! And I *am* asking again, where does the "Melanie, Lot 7" thing fit into the Melisandre = Shierra theory? I'm of the opinion (which I first heard put forth by Gray Area) that she's from beyond the Wall, possibly from Hardhome or a village nearby, and was taken by slavers about six hundred years previously when Hardhome was attacked. It's a shame, because it would be awesome if she *was* Shierra, but perhaps Shierra is Quiathe; still a secret character 🤞

[@JDizz1010]

I'm not saying your theory of Melisandra being Shiera Seastar is wrong, but I do have a potential counter fact to the theory. Actress Carice Van Houten, who plays Melisandra, said at a convention that Melisandra is 280 years old. (It was similar to the comic con pools but it was in France) what are your thoughts of this?

[@TheAlaskansandman]

Also, What's your thoughts on any connection between Garth and the Sea? It seems to me the older religion of men worshiped the sea as shown through the Iron Islanders. Further more it strikes me odd that Manderly's have a merman as their sigil.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We're going to do a series on the religions in the story so unfortunately I'm going to have save my thoughts on them until then

[@TheAlaskansandman]

Lookin forward to the vid :)

[@Khaled91]

The vale was the only region not to be affected by the war of the 5 kings, I think that the knights of the Vale will play a major part in protecting the realm in the last two books. House Royce especially. They were always good to the nights watch and they have strong ties with the Starks of Winterfell.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Khaled S Sorry for being vague but that's very closely related to the series of videos we're working on but all I can say about it right now is agreed

[@Khaled91]

The Order of the Green Hand Thanks I'm looking forward to those videos.

[@brj83]

Is it a subtle casting hint that the guys who portray Mance and Ser Arthur Dayne, and Tormund and Ser Gerold Hightower do resemble quite a bit??? Just an observation

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we noticed the same thing

[@jamesgolden4600]

thought it was Whent with Dayne at ToJ in the show ill have to rewtch it

[@three-eyedbro]

Interesting take on Melisandre. I like how she could be the one who healed Mance/AD. How do we describe her thoughts in her POV chapters such as “Melanie” she heard a voice call, and “Lot 7” if she’s Shiera Seastar?

[@made-line7627]

Yeah she's not Shiera

[@three-eyedbro]

Madeline Sartori agreed. Seastar is such a minor character only briefly mentioned in maybe 2-3 books. Hard to see her playing a major role when she should be long dead

[@nexishadow]

Aww! No fair! I need more theory!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Sorry...we're hoping to have our next one out before xmas

[@nexishadow]

Another great videos. Keep up the good work.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@Pestywarrior3]

I have been loving your videos because they tie some many seeming trivial details together to reveil the big picture but I do have a question. If the children are the true enemy what does that tell us about the Crannog men of the neck. They are said to have a close relationship with them. Could they been allied with the children and should they be trusted.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much!!! we really appreciate it. in terms of the crannogmen, we've debated that quite a bit. i thought they may be allied with the COF, but as of yet, I can't find anything to prove this, other than a few circumstantial things. as we continue our investigation into the COF, if anything else comes up we will definitely include it. but you're thinking was in line with mine...but so far, nothing of substance yet.

[@Pestywarrior3]

The Order of the Green Hand I have some many questions for you but i don't want harass you when my questions will probably be answered in a future video so my last question is this. How does Bran fit in to all this. He is now north of the wall with bloodraven and the COF. What side will Bran find himself on in The Wars to Come.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We haven't gotten there yet but it's coming...he'll be on the right side