This Bike Costs $60,000!!! But Why?

[@gcntech]

What are your thoughts on this sneaky loophole? 👀 Let us know in the comment section below! 👇

[@JMcLeodKC711]

Why couldn’t you make the same version of this video about the Lotus bike GB used?

[@aaronpower8741]

If you want innovation, then the countries / teams that put in the R&D effort need to get some advantage back. If you want a level playing field (from a tech perspective) then all teams should be on the same kit. The UCI is trying to balance the two objectives. It's never going to be perfect.

[@WredFawks]

Not surprising in the least.

[@bobboy1107]

When you think about the limitations to access track cycling, there is going to much less of these frame sold. And while the material may be relatively cheap, the tooling costs be astronomical. Even at £60,000 depending on the number sold the company will still be make a loss

[@Choedron]

I agree. If you can not buy it readily, then it should not be allowed in comperitions. And I think UCI should set a limit to the pricetag of bikes, which can be used.

[@MrAlexmaccy]

I think it should be like rally cars used to where they had to make and sell a minimum number of frames to get UCI approval.

[@garyfromtescos]

This is such a good idea

[@firbolg]

@@garyfromtescos It is! Brillant!

[@matthewbaynham6286]

Fantastic idea, however when people buy cars they register them with the DVLA (in the UK or whoever in other countries) making it easy to inforce the rule for Rally cars.

[@mattb106]

Also the rule has had the piss taken many times in the past. It would turn out 300 people that happen to work at Factor bought them 😄

[@benoitbvg2888]

Great. Can't wait to buy the bicycle equivalent of a Renault 5 GT Turbo 2 for dirt cheap just because a manufacturer needs to sell x of them.

[@StevenDrewitt]

Add on OSPW will definitely make the fixed gears much more efficient.

[@pinjaliina]

I'm amazed they didn't make any regards to that on the video. Also, what are you going to use to mount the optional bottle cages to that frame? Zip ties?

[@madmick9205]

I truly do believe that for the Olympics at least, all kit should be standardized. It ought to be about who is the best athlete, not about who has the most money, or the tech advantage.

[@gcntech]

You make a good point! Although I'm sure that countries with less of a budget wouldn't be too keen on that idea

[@Frostbiker]

You are assuming that the standardized bikes used in the Olympics would be outrageously priced, which they don't have to be. I propose they use Japanese steel-framed mamachari grocery-getters.

[@madmick9205]

@@Frostbiker ha ha that would be great! but no, a decent cheap bike would do:)

[@mlee6050]

​@@gcntechI like to believe they made a one of for Ollie

[@martyjbrown]

In all sports?

[@andrewmcalister3462]

I'd love for the UCI to withdraw their frame certification from Factor. I bet their track bikes would miraculously become genuinely commercially available faster than a flying 200.

[@Frostbiker]

10:13 Gents, thank you for clarifying that you do not spend every evening researching reach arounds in the same bed. It was an important question to settle, even though it does raise some new questions that I hope will never be answered.

[@ezghthrt7733]

Well, the only surprise is "Factor" not being certified previously. I tried to order the equally expensive (60k$) Pinarello Bolide F HR 3D only to be informed that "currently this product is not in stock". Other manufacturers simply state to "make a request" I suspect that the bikes are indeed for sale, but the manufacturers just don't bother about making sparkling advertisements because the target group is limited to a very small number of people.

[@benoitbvg2888]

I just covered my Triban GRVL520 with printer ink. The world's most expensive liquid. 75,000$. Who's interested?

[@seattlegrrlie]

Did you go with Magenta? I might be interested if it was Magenta

[@mattb106]

Anyone ever try to buy a UKSI bike in the past? Always out of stock, which was convenient.

[@mattb106]

I should have watched the whole video before commenting 😂

[@sooryanandanans236]

Can't wait to see them being skid around by fixed gear buddies in NYC🎉

[@adamweb]

3:50 Another award winning performance from Ollie 🤣

[@maltekoch1632]

The german FES Sport shop is splitting the bike in much more components. It's like 4,5k€ for a handlebar. Levelling the playing field is a really important part to make it a competitive sport with more then 5-10 teams beeing able to win a medal.

[@kevinhoffmann3713]

Ollie and Alex being giddy like they are about to "prank" call Factor is awesome.

[@luukrutten1295]

The koga kinsei track bike does seem to be quite reasonably priced 9.5k frameset 1800 handlebars. Hower it seems that they wont sell you the narrow integrated handlebars and you need to get hold of the special princeton ultra narrow front wheel, which of course isnt on the princeton website either. Loopholes again!

[@Alan_Hans__]

The UCI rule needs to go further. If the bike is priced at X dollars then there should be an audit trail to show that teams that have bought that bike have paid that amount for them. If a team and bike retailer/manufacturer fail when audited then both get eliminated.

[@TheSlurpeeMan]

I think they'd get around this by footing some of the R&D bill. Especially since the material costs for these bikes aren't low (especially with 3D printed titanium getting involved more and more now), they'd likely be able to justify 50,000 EUR pretty quickly.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

What about teams being sponsored by the bike company? Teams generally will also get wholesale at a minimum, even with attainable bikes like Argon 18

[@janemf]

Do you understand how manufacturing works?

[@StephaneChenouda]

What you guys are describing here is exactly what happened in the late 90s with prototype gt1 cars racing at the 24h of Lemans.

[@gcntech]

For some more interesting tech innovations, why not check out our 'Quantum Leap' film about the Hope track bike on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/HopeHBT

[@Edders574]

get one or two frame makers and the same with wheels makers and that's your choice how you tweek it is up to you i.e tyres,gearing..get a level playing field for all and we get to see who is the best

[@felixk9353]

In some way they actually do this in F1 because teams need to develop their power units in a way that some parts can be used in road cars.

[@boriss.861]

Pixies & Elves as you said Alex $60,000 R&D my friend.. Top Engineers Cost per hour for R&D Artisan Bespoke Mould and Pattern Making Computer Simulation Wind Tunnel Testing Elves & Pixies you know how much that costs. Carbon Fibre Build... .

[@casakaiser]

Imagine the wild variety of bikes world tour teams would have shown up at the TdF during Covid when there were literally no bikes available in shops anywhere. 😂

[@gcntech]

That would've been fun!

[@timnoko3588]

If you open that pic in full size (to a new tab and remove the 2000), it clearly has two chainrings.. :D

[@johnrodgers6049]

$60k is tons of money for a bike, and clearly the majority of that is not for parts, but for R&D. Hypothetically, let’s say a country spends $50 million developing a new, fantastic track bike. If a poorer country could buy one or two for $60k each, that sounds like a bargain

[@aHoste-gf6hf]

I wonder how long it will take for the UCI to change these loopholes after watching this video.

[@romenorom]

The rule tha ollie sugested is briliant. Bike should be available but price should be low 10k is maximum. Technikal malfunctions are fun to watch😊

[@savagepro9060]

2:12 Ollie: What time is it in America right now? Alex: I literally have no idea! Google: How many time zones are there in the US? There are six time zones in the US main country. The 50 US states are spread across the six standard time zones. With dependencies (inhabited and uninhabited), however, the total count comes to 11 time zones.

[@WillPower46]

The UCI should make more of an effort to enforce this rule in order to make it a more even playing field. If they are not going to make sure that this rule is adhered to then the pretence of the rule is really only a form of virtue signalling.

[@dylan-5287]

All that's going to do is stifle technology development. There will always be cheaper options available to the public. The rule right now is insulting, just get rid of it and embrace the tech development with the understanding it's going to be expensive and not everyone will get it.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

​@@dylan-5287different story with Olympic competition due to the ethos of the Olympics. While not cheap, bobsledding seems to do the best job at this even though regular folks don't buy them

[@WillPower46]

I@@dylan-5287 I hear you with regards to technology development but still if you’re from a country that doesn’t have the money to purchase super expensive bikes you should still be given an opportunity to compete. We want to see who has the best athletes not who has the most money.

[@notreal-pl7mz]

It is all part of the fun of wacky races! When the UCI try and square the impossible circle it goes pair shaped. A specific race where everyone is on equivalent bikes would be good, maybe they could use the velodrome hire bikes, with no gearing up!!!

[@mattf2247]

The "new photo" has a road (double) crankset, and the center of the rear wheel isn't even appropriately centered in the track ends. Some real quality graphic design going on at Factor 🙄

[@aliancemd]

Pretty clear nobody can buy these, even if they pretend to sell it. 4:51 “Contact us” and “Find a dealer”(obviously no dealer has it) won’t get you anywhere

[@mikejames1860]

No, at this price point u are pro.. a true pro has one custom made.

[@tainis1996]

WSBK motorcycle racing have the same rule, the motorcycle need to be available to the public. The top motorcycles brands are Ducati & BMW and is half of the price of that bicycle, crazy!

[@alan_davis]

To be fair, that is NOT the same motorbike... it might have the same name, frame and base engine, but it won't win any races in SBK.

[@seattlegrrlie]

I will repeat that I think the Olympics should be run on regular bikes you can get at your local shop. I want to see who is fastest, not who is the most wealthy with the best skin suit

[@alaefarmestatesllc]

Make them all use wal mart bikes

[@robertcatuara5118]

Homologation is 500 units sold to the public in auto racing. UCI could try that.

[@PoulHansenDK]

But but! Isn't there a rule that for a bike to be allowed in the Olympics, it must have been used at a (worlds?) competition beforehand, so you can't just show up with a new bike at the Olympics?

[@manfrommontreal]

I love how you can add bottles, bottle cages and oversized pulley wheel for the not existant rear derailleur 😂 on the website.

[@NefastusJones]

Take! My! Money!

[@velocybirr]

I am riding Ultegra. No plans to ride Dura Ace. This is upper level noise is of no consequence to a rider like me.

[@HkFinn83]

Probably better value in terms of ratio of research and development to cost than a generic $20,000 road bike that are now promoted with a straight face

[@roobvids]

I imagine due to the low production numbers and range of sizes for track athletes just the cost of the moulds engineering would be insane

[@leonbroekx]

Those are paid for by the ones (nations/teams) who order this bike now anyway. If they wouldn't pay for it, the brands would not make them.

[@tomnewham1269]

The manufacture of this bike would be minor compared to the cost of R&D that went into designing this bike. Even having different sizes wouldn't add much cost to the manufacture process.

[@tinejenko415]

Doesn't Filippo Ganna's hour record bike cost 75k?

[@wick67]

That price is ludicrous, but understandable given how much R&D goes into it, and how small the production run will be. Perhaps the rule should be changed to require that the bike is publicly available for purchase a set amount of time before it is first used in competition, giving competitors a chance to train & compete with it. Incidentally a similar rule does exist at some, but not all, levels of motorsport. It is called homologation.

[@gcntech]

We made a film about the Hope track bike on GCN+ that may interest you! 👉 gcn.eu/HopeHBT

[@ReneWilliams-g8y]

My biggest question about the Factor WarHammer 60k is WHY do they offer Ceramic Speed OSPW Add-on for a derailluer for a bicycle without ANY HANGER - LOL

[@CyclingGeo]

The UCI WC is where the tech should be advanced. The Olympics should be somewhat standardised or at least have a innovation budget cap. The Olympics should be about the athletes, not the tech.

[@ChiTownBrownie89]

The thing that gets me is TT helmets, not many brands have TT helmets available to the public in the US yet somehow even these domestic elite teams have new helmets.

[@stephenmorris6202]

Cycling puzzles me. It has become an elite high tech sport which is stuck in the past. You can't buy an F1 car, a DTM car, a World Rally car. They don't have to be available to the public: they are performance tools that have no place on public roads. They have to adhere to design criteria and that is how they are regulated. Why should World Tour bikes and elected track bikes be available to the public? So why should Factor have to list this bike for sale at all? I'm sure the price for the bike is insane, but how much is the front wing for an F1 car? I would guess plus £150,000 ... for a piece of moulded carbon. Why can't we just celebrate the performance of the elite division?

[@alan_davis]

Because it needs to be about the rider, not the bike. F1 is all about the car - 50% of the grid could be World Champion in a superior car.

[@MggW]

Many mainstream brands are unable to fulfil the 120 day lead time required by the UCI regulations. It seems this is a rule which can't be applied due to component lead times in the real world.

[@DoNuT_1985]

I think the argument that there is "no way" a bike may be worth 60k doesn't factor in that all prices include R&D and marketing in their calculation. The expected volume to be sold (times the price) ideally covers the cost with a nice profit margin. So, 60.000$ is probably even less than or at least covering what went into getting this bike out in the track: materials, machining and all the man-hours to engineer it. So, if may have cost $1.000.000 if they had priced it like that.... but they just went with a ballpark number that fits through the loophole but is still too high for anybody to actually consider purchasing it.

[@nickgraves6971]

Imagine if the rule surrounding Wiggle next day delivery bikes was put in place. Elite Olympic events all competing on Vitus Vitesse Evo’s… does away with budget discrepancies

[@gcntech]

Lets make it happen 😂

[@croccofanto]

I'm with Ollie on this

[@SaarWalter]

you should next review azizul awangs WX - R 60,000 pound bike

[@grahammitchell9415]

I have seen UCI stickers on Ebay.

[@leonbroekx]

I guess that's also a part that should be available to be legal.

[@jaygee434]

Now the true question is, what was Ollie looking or watching whilst waiting for Factor to pick up the phone I'm going with cartoons

[@garethmorgan455]

Is this not Alex Dowsett's hour record bike?

[@jonathanzappala]

Why is an OSPW listed as an add on for a track bike? 🤣

[@alan_davis]

Not that much more of a waste of money on this bike than a bike where you could actually fit it...

[@troycollett8540]

Is that the same bike Dowsett did the hour record on?

[@FKnoph]

And only available in X large... 😏 What about crowdfunding one for Connor?

[@wotexpat9367]

And you have to pay more for the Ceramic Speed OSPWs..... LUL🤣

[@LeConcerto]

OSPWs on track bikes???

[@MarkLRandall]

Sounds very similar to trying to buy a triathlon bike these days 😮.

[@notreal-pl7mz]

Does it qualify for the cycle to work scheme?

[@kylixchi]

Good point Ollie, about having the bike actually available during or before the competition!!

[@gustavborkenkafer5041]

I am a bit confused and would like to know a bit more about the bikes that the german riders use. Because there is an official institute of the country that came out of the former GDR where they build sporting equipment only for the best athletes that are competing for the Germany in track cycling or other occasions like bob and Kajak and so on. How do they go around that rule? They are no company

[@veganpotterthevegan]

They are "for sale" but unavailable. I had a custumer(when I was a bike fitter) that loves German everything offer them much over their claimed asking price but they just kept telling them they were unavailable

[@leissp1]

Try getting a FES, Felt FRD, Lotus Hope etc not happening anytime by the man or woman on the street.

[@jimbo9030]

Im only liking this post because "reach around" was left in. Ill ignore the fact that it wasnt mentioned that this is the Australian team bike for the olympics 🤔

[@leonbroekx]

This argument about all nations being able to have the same equipment. Did you see the Worlds TT in Glasgow? There were competitors from exotic nations who didn't even have an aero helmet. They had road handlebars. There was even one of them having a bike computer mount on the handlebar without having a bike computer. So this rule is crap. It would be a good start to make rules that force top nations or world tour teams to provide their used material to other developing nations. Not the latest tech, but let's say material that dates from the previous edition of the Olympics or at least 3-4 years old.

[@74_Green]

3:53 hahahaha

[@casakaiser]

Also why price it at 59,999 USD. And not 60,000? Is someone going to say, well, it’s not 60 grand so yeah, that’s a good price I’ll buy it.

[@alan_davis]

Because their standard pricing spreadsheet tool almost certainly has a "round to next '9'" formula in it...

[@rudolphpyatt4833]

But, as I have said before, F1 is not the proper FIA comparison: Touring cars or GTs are, and they have minimum requirements for production numbers.

[@KenSmith-bv4si]

#AskGCNTech, when are youse guys gonna review the cheapest bicycle used in 2023 Tour de France, like DARE bikes.

[@scottriley7215]

This

[@davefave4351]

Heads up to Factor for making this bike seeming impossible to order in the early hours of a Sunday morning after a night on the sauce!

[@SMlFFY85]

Why don't the organisation responsible for the events have an official bike all teams have to use, like football leagues do with footballs or F1 with tyres?

[@WhatxKeepsxUsxHere]

#AskGCN Hello GCN. I assume you have a lot of spare parts even from racing time. What is the best way to store those parts? Question with main concern on best method on storing Hydraulic callipers / leavers)

[@wotexpat9367]

That is not a Supernice....

[@colton_i]

Black Inc does the same marketing images with their track wheels, a 12,000 dollar wheel just laid out on some blankets on a chair

[@alan_davis]

Better than "image not available" - I think the UCI did actually stamp down on that one!

[@jasongirvan6729]

I believe one way to combat all these problems is easy. The rule needs a stipulation of min number of units sold to the public before it can be used. You guys used f1 as a example to cycling but when it comes to the must be available to the public rule you should compare this to nascar as they have the same rules as to the model they are portraying must be publicly available and with units sold

[@alan_davis]

If you're using nascar as an example then all the companies are in the clear - it has two wheels, a seat and a handlebar... close enough.

[@1971lemond]

I think there should be a price cap ……… “like rent cap”…….. if ya will, so people can buy a bike and have a place to live as well to put the bike.

[@mitchellsteindler]

I think these brands are really missing out actually. Just like hypercars, there are ultra-roch cyclists who would buy a bike even if it was 100k of there was marketing to say it is better.

[@jayhoughton4174]

Wow, the same price as Seamus Coleman!! I’d rather have Seamus thanks 😂

[@shawnsee2688]

Pre-order, available 2 months after the Olympics.

[@lukestreet8473]

I reckon the uci should make a cost cap.

[@donaldyoung8866]

Ollie still looks wrecked from the Tour des Station… fiddly stuff as a loophole in cycling … wow who knew 🙄🙄 but love this drops on around the same time as a crappy e bike,… only GCN 😂

[@MrCjb1993]

The Pinarello Bolide HR costs more.

[@dh7314]

When you ask a child to draw a futuristic bike

[@rogersimmons8788]

Well, that bike is only a nice, not super nice. Whatever you do, don't ring that bell!

[@mattbarrett7369]

$60K would be reasonable if they included shipping. 😂

[@leissp1]

No different from most of the other high end track bikes being made. A very expensive barrier to the average Joe from actually being able to get a higher end Track bikes. Just how do youngsters get their foot in the door?

[@Mavrik-60]

Simple really. What are the people willing to pay??? That is what determines the price once it goes beyond cost. This is not for sale if they really wanted to sell this bike it would be priced accordingly. Ok guys keepemcoming

[@e3dave744]

Did Ollie just say reach around

[@thomashurwitch1537]

Do the Olympics require UCI approved bikes? They are separate governing bodies after all.

[@Iowahurler82]

Olympics apparently require bikes that are available to the public, but to my knowledge there isn't much enforcement on how easy it has to be to get one, nor any requirement on production numbers.

[@nerigarcia7116]

$60K and I'm sure there would be someone out there to buy one.

[@MaxMustermannnnnn]

I think the Hope bike has a similiar price…

[@gcntech]

Check out our 'Quantum Leap' documentary about Hope on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/HopeHBT

[@bdnfitzpatrick]

Reach around? It's common decency

[@opus5204]

I can't wait to see someone make the user name, "Not Ollie's first reach around" and make a submission to the bike vault.

[@10ktube]

I feel like cycling companies just throw a huge price tag on stuff to see if it sells. Someone/some group/team buys it, and now another company has a super high price tag to try. Then it becomes the new par for something ridiculous. Can you guys do a behind the scenes to see what a bike ACTUALLY costs, in just materials? Is a carbon frame really like 20 bucks worth of carbon and 10 of paint and we're all paying thousands for it? I know there's R&D they try to get in there, but just materials, how much is it actually worth?

[@Iowahurler82]

Apparently you haven't seen the costs associated with molds. When I was into mechanical PC keyboards as a hobby, we (keyboard enthusiast forum) asked Signature Plastics about making molds for a spacebar that they already make but just moving the stems to accommodate different keyboard switch layouts. They were more than willing to, if we paid for the molds. That pricetag was $15,000. And they don't last forever.

[@alan_davis]

Depends how many you sell, got to pay for R&D, tooling and production line setup costs whether you sell 1,000 bikes or 100,000... As a general outline assume the materials cost is 15-20% of RRP, the manufacturing labour cost about 5%, the manufacturer then markets it, deals with all the logistics, inventory holding costs, warranty costs, manufacturing yield costs etc. and sells it at about 50-75% of RRP (50% to an international distributor, 75% to a dealer in their country already where they might act as the distributor), and the bike shop sells it at 80-100% of RRP (or maybe below their cost if they get stuck with it for over a year and have to dump it in a sale) You mostly pay for multiple profit margins, which is why direct to consumer brands come in much cheaper (I won't say "better value" because often the people in the process can add a lot of value). The build up of cost/pricing is similar in many many industries. One of the main issues with bike companies is that there are just so many of them... very few have the scale to sell high volumes of a single model/size.

[@graniteslinger]

just the wheelset is $15k wew

[@alexhobson5182]

It’s technically not “commercially available” if there is no legitimate process to buy it. I think the UCI should enforce this and enquire to purchase one. As someone said above - as with Rally cars, they should have to make a certain number of these and make them available to purchase.

[@Video_Storyteller]

60 grand and they still want you to pay for a water bottle?

[@stanschmenge1965]

Manufacturers aren’t going to sell these bikes to anyone that calls them up. They have a list of teams that they are wanting to sell to, and their reps are in contact with those teams

[@Calispeedboi]

they don't want to sell it

[@LPM84.]

Reach arounds......loop holes........🥔...........🥔

[@matthewbaynham6286]

What about the Graeme Obree's of this world who want to win world titles on bikes made from washine machine components?

[@alan_davis]

Not sure you need a plural for this - I think Mr Obree is a very singular one-off (in a good way)!

[@michaelpeace1201]

That should sell 1000 bike

[@chw0112]

I think some people (including GCN) are missing the point here. There is no market for these bikes. The UCI rules are pointless because no individual rider is going to buy one. There aren't top level privateer track cyclists. Anyone that would or should be interested to buy one of this type of bike would be contacting Factor through their national organisation or team, not just calling them up and saying, 'Hi I'm Dave, can I buy a bike please?'. The UCI have rules about the safety and shape of the bike, but I don't believe they should be trying to control the commercial aspect of selling bikes. Anything that Factor learn from producing this bike will be retained in the company and used on future commercial projects. We will all benefit in the end without having to pay $60000.