This Is A Dumb Take

[@blustre]

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[@pewdiepiezzzzz124]

no

[@NoctiliaGrah]

no thanks

[@oscartaylor3850]

If it was just Morgan, I might consider but you lost me at Morgan

[@JoséGurovitz]

except for legal eagle u are the first guy I saw do an ad for a law firm

[@yekuukey5592]

Im glad you’re making money but this ad is just funny

[@Need_A_Newsted_Of_Strings]

Ben Shapiro only meant that rap wasn't real music until HE entered the game

[@gabiark9117]

W pfp

[@Need_A_Newsted_Of_Strings]

@gabiark9117 thanks man!

[@nomalthenomal]

wow, crazy how shen bapiro invented music thats crazy

[@a_little_flame589]

no he still stands by that take he did stay consistent surprisingly

[@w1l1us]

Whoever says rap doesn’t have harmonies or melodies hasn’t listened to a majority of rap.

[@nomalthenomal]

dude probably the most popular rap song i've heard (i don't listen to rap) is flippin gangsta's paradise and that stuff has Coolio singing quite a lot, a whole choir and a little bass counterpoint thingy going on that really keeps my little brain entertained enough to really enjoy that song

[@TheRealNolanator]

They need to listen to some of my man, my homie, the greatest of all time . . . KANYE WEST!!!!!

[@ihatebertram9719]

It only differs in the way the music is written instead of the classic intro - bridge - chorus type of song but like… that’s why it’s called a different genre. Because it’s a different type of music. And the background melodies are usually pretty creative with some genuine talent behind it. It’s low hanging fruit but Black and Yellows background is insanely good

[@ianhairston5258]

​@TheRealNolanator a based opinion 🗿

[@grantcooper2224]

These ppl claim they arent racist but i saw someone call Kendrick an uneducated thug 😭

[@sbsjsjudhdjsjs8026]

“Uneducated but I got a million dollar check like that.”🗣️

[@mark99942]

​@@sbsjsjudhdjsjs8026Wesley theory

[@ColdIceCubes1]

And pretty sure Kendrick had a 4.0 gpa so idk how he's "uneducated"

[@sbsjsjudhdjsjs8026]

@@ColdIceCubes1 🤷😂

[@Mezelenja]

​@@sbsjsjudhdjsjs8026the perspective of the song is portraying a new face in the rap industry getting ready to get fucked over by said industry because they didn't know any better.

[@dogspaghetti7118]

People who say rap isn’t music are the same people who don’t bother to consider how much African/Caribbean music has inspired and directly lead to the creation of their favorite genres 😞 Edit: I’m not saying African/Caribbean music inspired EVERY genre y’all. A lot of very mainstream genres however (country, bluegrass, cumbia, folk, rock) are heavily inspired by, if not started by Afr/Car people and culture. Once again, they didn’t inspire EVERY genre, but certainly genres that are heavily appropriated to this day (especially appropriated by the people who don’t consider very obviously black inspire music to be music)

[@RedditBossMiguel]

That's a fair point, African and Caribbean music have had a huge influence on many genres, including rock, jazz, and even pop. However, the argument about rap not being music isn't about dismissing these influences; it's about whether the structure of rap, which focuses heavily on rhythm and lyrical delivery over melody and harmony, fits everyone's definition of "music." Acknowledging these cultural contributions doesn’t change the fact that rap operates differently from more traditional forms of music in terms of composition.

[@Repton0]

Yeah african and carribean music is kind of the bridge that made classical music turn into pop music

[@VikingTeddy]

​​@@RedditBossMiguelunless you go *really* traditional, as in stone age people pounding drums and telling a story. In which case rap is one of the closest genres to traditional composition.

[@beardyjesus4591]

This take is not about racism, this take is about music, It is wrong anyway, but stop making everything about race. I live in a country without racial prejudice against black, because there is no black people and no Ben Shapiro. Local rap is white as paper, but I still heard the same take about rap not being music, since 2010

[@joaquinlezcano2372]

​@@beardyjesus4591is kind of about music, because there's no other way that someone that wants to talk about music can possibly reach that conclusion. There's plenty of evidence of why that notion is wrong.

[@Scoop6464]

Rap? More like CRAP -my grandpa (he doesn’t hate rap I paid him to say that)

[@volly9387]

how much did you pay

[@ArksideGames]

Rap is mostly crap

[@UpTheIrons12]

Have you heard anything from the 90s?

[@Scoop6464]

@@ArksideGames Nuh uh

[@Scoop6464]

@@UpTheIrons12 I love rap

[@Crysticai]

in my opinion, the most important aspect that makes music music is human expression. doesnt matter if it foregoes rhythm, melody, or harmony, what matters is that a real person put real emotion into the artform.

[@sleepingkittystar]

I love noise music and it is just raw raw emotion

[@Crysticai]

@ well, it can be 🤷 art is interpretive in nature so even harsh noise will convey different things to different people

[@hypnotrax]

Real

[@sleepingkittystar]

@Crysticai expression is what makes it so ai music will not replace actual artists any time soon, with musicians more than visual artists people really like connecting to them

[@still_leuna]

But then what differentiates it from normal poetry? (I do think rap is music dw, I just don't think expression alone is the argument)

[@thefunkphenom11]

"Anything i don't like isn't music"

[@alex9920ro]

Well, it's kinda true. We all have our own definitions, standards and criteria to decide what is music and what it's not.

[@Bone-Neato]

Me when AJR does anything

[@androidterabyte_official]

​@@alex9920robut these people say it as if it *objectively* is not music. It's just not good music *for you, not objectively.* (I am not a crazy rap/hip hop fan either, but I acknowledge it as an existing music genre regardless.) 💁🏼‍♀️

[@ShmoogaBalooga]

@@alex9920ro its him

[@dashthefast]

People also say metal isn’t music

[@swafty5813]

I played Merzbow as a joke once and someone said it isn’t music it has me question what people think is music. I consider harsh noise and ambience music lol.

[@Odythedj]

“It’s just screaming” bitch so is Christmas. Susan sit back down

[@kirdot2011]

that is very very outdated opinion... nowadays we have clown core which actually might be considered as not being music

[@MalikDjazzi]

Same for people who say that jazz/classical is just random notes

[@pastromer8552]

@@kirdot2011 considering the knocked loose performance on jimmy kimmel and how a bunch of weird people acted with that i dont know if its outdated

[@ryan82scott]

If rap is “not music” by the logic that it’s missing elements of music, then neither is Gregorian Chant. After all, much (though not all) Gregorian Chant doesn’t contain harmony. Strangely, I’ve never heard anyone make that claim. Strange, that…

[@dahalofreeek]

Syrinx by Debussy is a solo flute piece. Just one line of music, but does not make the cut as music according to Ben.

[@Acro_YT]

I wonder why they singled out the genre that originated from African Americans as “not music.” Such a mystery 🤔

[@A14-j7g]

Or ambient, which usually doesn't have rhythm

[@jacksonlittle282]

Same could be said about Mongolian throat singing

[@StayMadLmfao]

@@Acro_YTbecause yall fill it to the brim with yall degenerate “culture” wonder why anyone gonna say anything about a song talking about shooting people,selling drugs and or ass

[@EMcCombs]

0:20 Ben Shapiro clearly didn’t listen to CHROMAKOPIA

[@RedditBossMiguel]

I get where you're coming from, but I still maintain that rap isn't music in the traditional sense. Sure, it involves rhythm, and some artists incorporate melodic elements, but for me, music is defined by melody, harmony, and structured composition. Rap, at its core, focuses more on rhythm and lyrical delivery, which sets it apart from the foundational elements we typically associate with music. While I respect it as an art form, I don’t consider it music in the same way classical, jazz, or rock music are.

[@BUKAYOSAKA_7]

@@RedditBossMiguel all depends on what kind of rap your listeing to, like older hip hop is mostly rythym i guess but modern rap is very msuically rich

[@BUKAYOSAKA_7]

@@RedditBossMiguel also there is plentty of modern rap coming from yusually onger people that is actually the opposite and more melodical than lyrical and ryhmic, it all depends what youre listeining to

[@justchillinghowaboutyou3174]

​@@RedditBossMiguellisten to tpab. many of the songs fulfill all of these "requirements" and it is considered one of the best albums ever.

[@braydenshemtov1292]

@@RedditBossMiguelwhy does music have to have melody? how can you even define a word as broad as music? if there was a chord progression with no melody going on on top of it would you consider that music?

[@ihavespoken9871]

The main argument for people calling rap “not music” is that there’s no singing. Which is stupid, because there are lots of music genres with no singing.

[@mrfancyshmancy]

Hell, classical compositions are more often rhan not not music by that definition

[@stevenarvizu3602]

“Rap isnt music” is more or less a dog whistle

[@frankierc2920]

Yep

[@Dickinthesenutzs27]

Pretty much,

[@gekinatracksuit9710]

I absolutely despise the term "dog whistle" but this is valid

[@senorpepper3405]

​@@gekinatracksuit9710yeah i hate that stupid term

[@senorpepper3405]

​@@gekinatracksuit9710i agree with what you said about that term

[@frtzkng]

Music is just air that be *_vibin'_*

[@muriii6920]

Lol

[@Schlanket]

I mean, you ain’t really wrong.

[@Akikokka]

Like yea, music is just random sound waves that people think sounds good together, it doesnt have a specific Definition

[@2A-fu7gw]

This is a quote that I will use in the future for sure

[@floof7680]

When i showed my parents a song i made and my mum says “its too irregular and too aggressive” and told me to play in 4/4 and remove the distortion from the guitar “like they do in classical and pop” so I stopped sending my music to my mum and sent it to my dad instead

[@user-x3cctjs]

Bro I’m begging you pls show your mom “all my heroes are cornballs” by jpegmafia

[@ryanzand7549]

Art ends when you give it rules

[@Garfilt77]

Even my dad, a metal elitist, doesn't say shit like that, he even likes JPEGMAFIA and a few other rappers

[@contxt.mp4]

Your dad chill like that ain't finna lie

[@sleepingkittystar]

Metal and rap are kinda close lol id say their audience overlaps a lot

[@jdjjj84]

W dad. Any dad that likes Peggy is a w dad

[@bluedye4068]

W pfp

[@Ilikelizards_]

Holy W dad, Jpegmafia the goat fr

[@Eosinophyllis]

“Rap isn’t music” and here’s how I tell that you’ve never had to write lyrics in your life or try to syncopate. Or composed. Or interacted with music in any way other than listening.

[@thomo2127]

Tbh there's a lot more to music than just lyrics bro

[@thomo2127]

Rap doesn't really have amazing guitar solos or drum solos or vocal melodies like rnb it does have it just nowhere near what other genres have to offer

[@thomo2127]

Still love rap but it's a very lyrically focused genre you can only do so much with words I'm just sayin🤷‍♂️

[@thomo2127]

An rap isn't necessarily lyrically the best you could make an argument country has better storytelling

[@little0rphan431]

​@@thomo2127U understand that some beats are so complex that U can remove the lyrics and they can still work? Just because U don't like some songs doesn't mean U can downgrade the genre

[@volly9387]

i dont usually listen to rap music but calling any genre "not music" is kinda stupid ngl

[@emekao500]

Fr and I’m sure Ben has never listened to rap unbiasedly to even digest and understand it to even have an opinion.

[@FieFla]

Like I absolutely hate Brazilian Phonk, it doesn't sound good to me at all, but is it still music, if course it is, just because I don't like it doesn't mean it isn't music

[@chowtyme2]

@@FieFlafr

[@BrassThunder981]

3:29 Start of sponsor 4:28 Skip sponsor

[@2bruhiscool]

pls get this at the top

[@drodrig1]

You're the best

[@icollectmonkeynipples1476]

Thanks. I hate when youtubers don't include a time stamp for ads. I don't wanna listen to any of that lame shit.

[@SmellzYT]

Thanks I wanted to watch it again

[@thelistener2909]

Real

[@Odythedj]

This video sparked my passion for rap that’s been sleeping for three years. Out of pure spite

[@hardboiled4924]

I recently had a conversation with a classical composer / music theory professor who strongly dislikes rap. He was adamant that it’s music, and that arguments against it are ridiculous. It’s a different type of music for sure, but there’s no meaningful argument that it’s not music

[@HudsonDoesYoutube]

I hate how people say rap isn’t “real music”, my mom is one of them. I show her the absolute ART of Tyler, The Creator, (who you could barely call rap) and she said FREAKING POST MALONE was better. 🤦

[@Rammy_Latin]

Wait how can you "barely call [Tyler] rap"? Sure he takes influence from other genres but he IS a rap artist. Alternative or not, he's another shade of hip hop Also ur mom is 100% buggin

[@ColdIceCubes1]

That's tragic bruh. Tyler is goated

[@HudsonDoesYoutube]

@@ColdIceCubes1 ik right

[@HudsonDoesYoutube]

@@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0000 real

[@RandomAcousticMan]

As a metal head that dosent listen to rap but respects other genres, no way that post malone is better😭

[@franciothatguy]

BLUSTAAAAAAAAAARD

[@BossSkyfall]

famous rapper lil b famously invented music actually

[@beatsNduels]

Can't forget base God he got all the melodies

[@JoséGurovitz]

God is the original G

[@2bruhiscool]

the based god

[@mocapcow2933]

people don't understand how inspirational Lil B is, would our world still be here without our Based God

[@drowsyspook3455]

​@@beatsNduels"base God" 😭

[@shuirei]

I hear this a lot from metal fans which is ironic since this is something that has also been said about metal and rock for years

[@1994khalid24]

Metal, while overall very inclusive, also has some of the most bigoted people out there at the same time. Thankfully they’re a minority, but they are very loud

[@henrykozlowski-qk7xv]

Metal has a rap subgenre nu-metal

[@mistersudz102]

I once had a college professor explain how mice do better in mazes when classical music is playing as opposed to heavy rock and therefore rock is bad and classical is good because to quote her “good music is mathematical” But what confused me is the idea that… do we measure the subjective value of art based on weather it distracts mice or not? I have to assume the rock was scaring the mice… because they’re mice 😅

[@wheelsofmercury]

The last time I thought that rap wasn’t music was when I was 14 to 17 years old… and that was more than 10 years ago. I’ve grown up since then.

[@RedditBossMiguel]

I see where you're coming from, but I still have to respectfully disagree. Just because you’ve grown up and expanded your view doesn’t mean the traditional definition of music has to be strictly followed. Rap, in its essence, is much more than just rhythm and words-it's a form of expression that incorporates melody, harmony, and often a deep level of musicality, whether through sampling, beat-making, or even complex flows. Dismissing it because it doesn’t align with classical or more traditional ideas of music ignores the creativity and innovation rap brings to the table. Over time, the definition of music has expanded, and rap has undoubtedly earned its place as a legitimate form of musical expression. It’s not just a spoken word-it’s an entire genre with depth, structure, and emotional resonance, just like any other genre of music.

[@catearslifeadvice]

@@RedditBossMigueloh silly billy, he now thinks that rap is music. Stay whimsical homie

[@mark99942]

​@@RedditBossMiguelhe said that he changed

[@darkenedpp]

You're arguing with a brick wall, ​@@RedditBossMiguel .

[@calebwolfenbarger5947]

If music needs singing to be music then not a single symphony ever written counts as music.

[@_Vaal_Hazak_]

The film analogy reminded me of the times I've seen self proclaimed "cinephiles" on the internet unironically claim that all superhero movies are "objectively not art" (exact wording used btw). I'm a filmbro myself, I'm not a big fan of the superhero genre either (with exceptions), but that's just not what "objectively" or "art" mean. You can dislike something without denying what it inherently is

[@jdjjj84]

What ben said proves he doesn't listen to rap. That is completely false. There are so many rap songs that have all three of those things. If you listen to rap you would be able to tell.

[@RedditBossMiguel]

I get where you're coming from, but I think Ben Shapiro's point has some merit if you look at it from a specific perspective. While it's true that some rap songs incorporate melodies, harmonies, and musical layers, the genre as a whole is still heavily rooted in rhythm and lyrical delivery. The focus on words and flow often takes priority over melody and harmony, which are central to many other genres of music. So, in that sense, rap can feel more like a rhythm-based spoken word performance rather than "traditional" music that relies heavily on melody and chord progressions. It’s not that rap lacks musical elements, but the emphasis is different from what we typically expect in genres like pop or classical.

[@ColdIceCubes1]

Not like anyone ACTUALLY listens to Ben Shapiro. Plus he had a song with tom macdonald who arguably is the worst rapper oat

[@emekao500]

⁠​⁠@@RedditBossMiguelwhat you explained shows how it’s its own unique genre of music but not that it’s not music. A lack of emphasis on melody doesn’t mean it’s not there. The flow you mentioned is a form of melody. It’s not random words said in random places the rhymes and flows has to fit perfectly along the instrumental to sound crisp and sharp that’s a melody. What you also find is within rap your vocal tone has to harmonize with the instrumental. Rap still easily fulfills all this criteria.

[@dayton9136]

​@@RedditBossMiguelthe spoken word IS the melody. That's what flow is.

[@Repton0]

It's always rap music that these kinds of people attack. I don't think they have the guts to criticize any other black genre. Imagine saying soul or funk isn't music.

[@hoax58]

Because all “white” music in America basically comes from black genres

[@trulynotsimon]

Example: Rock was dominated by black artists at least in the US until Elvis. Hell, even R&B and Soul didn't have that many white artists. ​@@hoax58

[@thomo2127]

​@@hoax58black music can from classical tho

[@Nic-without-a-k]

Music is just organized wavy air fr.

[@Camisthenics]

Real

[@moonbunny24]

Literally the people I've known to say rap isn't music have also said things like that the only people who listen to rap "are either black or want to be black" so like... 😬 It's definitely a race thing.

[@randallpinkfloyd]

I used to think rap wasn’t music solely based off of the fact that the music itself was programmed on a computer. After I got into hip hop, I quickly realized that it was way more complicated than it seems and I have a deep connection to hip hop now. Still love my classic rock though

[@djspectrebolt8450]

I said it (well, more thought it) once when I was like 14, and literally later that day I was like wait no that's fucking stupid

[@formerlyknownaseasrob]

“If I thought of one genre racists would like, I’d say classic music” I mean I was thinking country but that works too

[@patstevens4560]

For me it was GKMC by Kendrick and WOLF by Tyler. Those two albums got me into actively digging for new rap when I was a teenager. Shit just blew my mind up until that point I was mostly a punk and classic rock listener

[@nondescriptcat5620]

Black On Both Sides by Mos Def, Things Fall Apart by The Roots, and A Piece Of Strange by Cunninlynguists for me.

[@ColdIceCubes1]

@@patstevens4560 for me, I got more into rap just from Eminem's first 3 albums.

[@xbdger]

@@nondescriptcat5620im pretty sure mos def (renamed to Yasiin Bey) is making a new album with the alchemist

[@kh0357]

ben using his music professor dad is hilarious, i have a music degree and all my college classmates listened to at least 1 rapper consistently

[@ThomasWillett1]

This feels like an update of what I experienced throughout the 2000s (when I would've been in high school). Most adults were saying "rap is crap" and had those undertones that it was all gangster culture (probably because of the popularity of the subgenre in the 90s) and not giving it a chance. I was like you in that I was more into rock music for a long time. I think what did it to me was reading about socially conscious artists like Public Enemy that got me to think "Oh, this can have meaning." "It Takes A Nation..." changed my life in the same way Kendrick did for you, even if I only ever relisten to three of their records while Kendrick's career is still consistently great. But yeah, sometimes we need that one thing to change our mind.

[@xstarsystemsx]

It's just about finding the one that you can connect with. Dessa was mine.

[@oligarchies]

Gangsta rap has meaning too. The segregation of "real hip hop with meaning" vs. "mindless gangster rap" by those foreign to the genre has done actual damage to the art form.

[@rudolfambrozenvtuber]

​@@oligarchies Fully agree but I have to admit that for a lot of us that pill does need sweetening. Once you're in, trying to understand things this becomes clear pretty quick

[@djsalad5752]

as someone studying music in college, and pursuing a career in performance, I find rap as consistently being one of my major inspirations with regards to my craft, whether it be my own compositions or how I interpret or react to the works of other artists.

[@emekao500]

Yeah I took a music theory class this semester and I did my final project recomposing money trees by Kendrick and my professor loved it.

[@jaymaynard2567]

But rap IS music when it’s Tom MacDonald, right Ben Shapiro? 🤦‍♂️

[@pizzaman8918]

Rap wasn’t music until Ben got on the mic.

[@starprime5586]

it would be like if i said that Spanish is not a language purely bc i dont understand it...

[@deep_fried_eggroll8858]

Rap definitely isn’t my favorite genre, but I can’t deny there’s a lot of rap bangers out there

[@androidterabyte_official]

I'm not that big of a rap/hip hop fan, but I absolutely adore artists like NF, maybe even more than the generally considered best artists like Eminem etc. (although he is still a legend!!)

[@1c0nic_player]

@@androidterabyte_official i bet i can guess your race and social class😭😭

[@androidterabyte_official]

@@1c0nic_player 🤨❔❔

[@1c0nic_player]

@@androidterabyte_official nf and eminem is kinda crazy. you literally did the “i don’t listen to rap but” thing

[@androidterabyte_official]

@@1c0nic_player I'm still not sure I understand. 🫤

[@notamaperson5849]

If rap isn’t music then neither is jazz or pop. No inbetween.

[@miongzky.2315]

"no melody, no harmony" clearly hasn't listened to even 3 minutes of tpab (wesleys theory peak)

[@thomo2127]

Such an overrated song and album

[@mocapcow2933]

rap, like lots of genres are so varied, i can't believe people would even think that. Don Toliver isn't like Billy Woods, who isn't like 2hollis, who isn't like Ka, who isn't like J Cole, and none of those are like Lil B.

[@mocapcow2933]

even my dad loved Kendrick's song "reincarnated" because of the religious aspects of it.

[@mocapcow2933]

i'll say it here too, Billy Woods is among the best writers in music, full stop.

[@mocapcow2933]

last comment, everyone look up 10 Wanted Men - survivin n poverty, one of my favorite songs

[@yummy_slippers471]

​@mocapcow2933 introduce him to Lecrae! He's a religious rapper, kdot himself has praised him in a song he put on IG

[@awax710]

he said there’s not a lot of melody. there still is, therefore ben is contradicting himself….. i remember you was conflicted.

[@nondescriptcat5620]

🔥🗣🔥AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@emekao500]

Fr I fought that too😂 saying there not a lot implies there’s still some… misusing your influence

[@awax710]

@@emekao500 hahahaha i’m so glad people caught the dot reference

[@JW-ZeroSpyderW]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

[@EristedeKell]

Ben Shapiro generally behaves like that one kid in school that had no knowledge about anything but always an opinion about everything, even his tone is that of a bored 14 year old 💀💀

[@JadenAizen]

I’m a bored 14 year old, still don’t sound like Melvin Sneedly if he had discovered PragerU.

[@vincentskater]

I got told my Animal Collective album "Feels" wasn't music .. and I was like .. fair enough

[@echoesouth]

It's because it's beyond music, it has transcended its human label.

[@ZodiacBoi42]

As a musician, there are rules to music, but in order to make great music you must break those rules, it’s about freedom of expression, making sounds you’ve never heard before, making something other people can enjoy and make it something different. Keeping to those rules and standards only end up with emptiness, a lack of choice and self discovery that ends up just being your basic pop song, Ben Shapiro obviously believes that way, because expressing self is everything he is against, that’s why his rap “career” is so bland and see through, he doesn’t truly care about music or anyone else, he’s just trying to get more people to follow him into a bottomless pit full of nothing but robotic obedience to whoever wants that power

[@victorjohnson5646]

Ben shapiro always sounds like an ai voice

[@MostPretentiousMusicNerd-ux3ln]

People with that kinda mindset never made the effort to actually listen to rap music. I was "People" once.

[@DipDopper]

now you a person

[@zaidalvi-r2l]

People? I was people once, they put me in a chamber, an echo chamber with lots and lots of parroting and parroting makes me people. People?

[@akshansh3]

by ben's logic drum solos would not be considered music either. inherently flawed logic

[@RedditBossMiguel]

Drum solos are still considered music because they involve rhythm as an integral instrumental component of a larger musical piece. They exist within a framework of melody and harmony, even if temporarily isolated. Rap, on the other hand, prioritizes spoken word, which is not inherently musical, over these foundational elements. The two aren't directly comparable.

[@monkeybara]

​@@RedditBossMiguelrap is about spoken word and melody like tons of other genres like pop, folk, gospel, etc

[@akshansh3]

@@RedditBossMiguel the spoken word is done in a certain rhythm. and a lot of rap samples melodies in a harmonic framework. it’s not an empty sermon and it contains all the elements of music. in any case rhythm is always a part of rap.

[@RedditBossMiguel]

@@akshansh3 Rhythm alone does not define music-otherwise, every speech or chant with rhythm would qualify. Rap emphasizes the spoken word, which leans more toward oration and poetry. While it might incorporate musical elements like rhythm or sampling, these serve as a backdrop, not the primary focus. True music, by definition, relies on melody and harmony as foundational components-elements rap frequently de-emphasizes. Comparing rap to genres like gospel or pop overlooks this key distinction; those genres prioritize melody and integrate vocals as instruments, not simply rhythmic speech.

[@Frinlo7]

@@RedditBossMiguelthere is genuinely no way this mf ain’t trolling 💀

[@the_grandest_galvatron1793]

I think it’s dumb to say that something isn’t music just because it’s lacking one of these things. People who set such strict limitations on art and entertainment must have depressing lives

[@frankierc2920]

‘Rap isn’t music’ is just thinly veiled bigotry a lot of the time…

[@DJPastaYaY]

Saying rap isn't music is absurd

[@RedditBossMiguel]

It isn't

[@fems.ss1]

​@@RedditBossMiguelit is though. 🫵🏻😭

[@mrfancyshmancy]

​@@RedditBossMiguel the hell is it then? Why is it not music? Cus you don't like it

[@vco7531]

“X is not music” - literally has been said about all genres when they were entering the mainstream and weren’t yet culturally accepted. From jazz to rock to funk..

[@vco7531]

@@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0000 true but that’s besides the point

[@jenconvertibles]

I mean I know for me at least that TPAB was basically the album that got me into music. I grew up with an older brother thats now a professional composer and it made me consciously try to pursue other ways to express myself and never really dig into anything outside of the radio, but then during lockdown I found a random fantano video on youtube where he mentioned tpab and i listened to it on a whim and i was just completely blown away. I dont know if its a stretch to say that that moment changed my life but its really led me down a journey of actually becoming a music fan, to the point where now I go to local metal shows whenever I travel and I spend a lot of my time either listening to or consuming content about music. There's something so compelling about the storytelling and the delivery of kendrick on TPAB, plus genuinely beautiful and cathartic moments like the end of blacker the berry. I think for me, same as a lot of people in gen z, tpab is like THE album. Its my reference point that I hold up to every other album regardless of genre, and there are very few that I think match up. But, then again, hes actually just talking and not singing so its not real music. my bad i guess

[@certainlyshiny]

I don't listen to music

[@volly9387]

cool

[@swagenheim]

what is a music

[@mcyum6815]

True neutral

[@Scoop6464]

@@certainlyshiny what do you do then?!,??,!???!/£/£:£;&,!!,9/@1@@2&/£$]$$]€|€,$|$[$[¥=[*]%]^{=|•¥

[@franciothatguy]

I don't musicz

[@ethanstoltzman8421]

Ben Shapiro hasn't heard Gangstas Paradise.

[@unastipic8857]

one time a guy asked me who my favourite singer is and i said bob dylan, but that i also liked listening to eminem a lot. he got so offended and started arguing with me saying that eminem isn't a singer. bro. it's music. singer=music artist in tgis context, it's not that deep. he never talked to me again and i still can't comprehend the level of hatred he had for me when i said that

[@emekao500]

Idk what he was mad about, two great artists🙌🙌

[@Mirulkaire]

Wild that people are so adamant that a genre of music so respected and influential "akshually" doesn't check an academic checklist's boxes (which it does), because I think other genres are better-suited for that question I mean, I've heard others tell me that noise and lowercase aren't music, but the bafflement there comes from genuine confusion, not from trying to put down an artistic expression so strongly tied to black folk.

[@RR9Daking]

People said the same shit about jazz

[@dougefresh7143]

Some people haven’t heard MF DOOM and it really shows

[@Invoins-geckos]

2:18 this was what Madvilliany did to me

[@OXYMORON69420]

I didn’t know who Tom Macdonald was until this video. How could you do this to me

[@floor867]

I wish i was you

[@ServingKant290]

They're also wrong about rap vocals, but that's the only thing they're even talking about in those clips. I know Ben is aware that some music doesn't even have vocals. There are so few rap songs with absolutely no melody or harmony. They still do have them, but the only ones that come to mind that are even close are i miss the old Kanye and some stuff from clipping. Every single rap song on the radio has melody and harmony. The whole time I was thinking about the "I usually don't like rap, but" comments.

[@insurtusername8987]

Literally every sound, whether it's rhythmic or connected or not. Literally random sounds on the street is music. Because everything is art

[@AquasArt]

I agree because the shit i just took is definitely art

[@androidterabyte_official]

Holy hell this is absolutely fantastic. Imma put this up in my room 👀👀💁🏼‍♀️

[@ryanzand7549]

Anything is art if you are willing to accept it as such and look at it with an intent to gain information or better yourself.

[@androidterabyte_official]

@ryanzand7549 Incredible point. 🫴🏼🤍🤖

[@platebnikartasneomezenymvy8035]

BRO YOU SCARED ME WITH THE JPEGMAFIA AND DANNY BROWN SNIPPET

[@Kurell171]

Rap isnt music...that i personally like to listen to. And i mean, theres a lot of bad rap music, but theres also a lot of bad pop and even a lot of bad classical music (even tho people dont like to admit that)

[@SmellzYT]

Rap isn’t music it’s a heavenly gift

[@bigsolo6952]

You tell ‘em Luffy

[@frtzkng]

Yes, the fundamental things in music are melody, harmony and rhythm. But an (intentional) _absence_ of one of those things doesn't mean it's no longer _music._ That's like knowing cats _usually_ have tails, seeing a cat without a tail and therefore concluding that this tailless cat is not a cat. Or, as Ben "rap is just talking" Shapiro would say, a dog.

[@RedditBossMiguel]

The cat analogy is an interesting one, but it doesn't quite work in this case. If a cat is born without a tail, it’s still a cat because it fits the broader definition of what a cat is. But with rap, it’s not like taking away one small aspect of the traditional music formula (like a tail on a cat). Instead, it’s a complete departure from the foundational elements of melody and harmony, which are integral to the definition of music as we know it. When you remove those essential components, you’re not just modifying the structure, you’re altering the core identity of what most people traditionally consider music. That’s why I still see rap as closer to spoken word or performance art, rather than music in its purest form. It's not a matter of one missing element-it’s that the absence of melody and harmony fundamentally shifts the category. So while the analogy to a tailless cat makes sense in some cases, when it comes to rap, it's more like saying that a cat without fur is no longer a cat. The absence of such critical components makes it something entirely different, even if it’s still an impressive form of expression in its own right.

[@logicnewt8729]

@@RedditBossMiguel ?? what are you talking about with that last part lmao are you saying a cat without fur ceases to be a cat? did you use chatgpt for this or something? i've seen you express like 3 vastly different opinions about the same topic over 20 minutes or so

[@kanYenitrous1446]

Ben shapiro hasn’t heard MBDTF and Graduation

[@LMD123-u6z]

Or gkmc

[@therealone844]

They're racist and also Conveniently Fail to mention how Black people also Made Rock n roll, blues, Jazz. ETC.

[@thomo2127]

I mean black people had an influence on a lot of modern music but didn't invent everything

[@thomo2127]

Most of music all comes from Europe btw

[@mystixxvoid]

If rap isn't music, then neither is classical, R&B, jazz, hip hop, pop, country, EDM, or any other genre. Rap will always be music.

[@JuhoSprite]

0:15 wrong wrong wrong 😭 what about atmospheric music that has no melody nor rhythm? just harmony. this guy is so irrelevant

[@noodlesbaldwin8075]

I don’t even like the large majority of rap but I would never say it’s not music because as a metal listener it is common and so Annoying for it to be said that it’s not music or it’s just screaming when it’s so much more

[@pickedkestrel74]

I'm not sure people understand that the definition of "music" can change over time. One word that was invented a long time ago doesn't have to carry the same meaning and exact connotations as it did 20, 50, or 100 years ago.

[@mocapcow2933]

and music never had a solid concrete definition in the first place, there's some people that give it definition, but definition can't be given by singular or even a group of people. it's also the reason why genre has no solid definitions.

[@lettucekisses]

People just don’t understand what music is when they say rap isn’t music

[@Bytheway-2004]

I dislike rap, but saying its not music is like saying an acoustic isnt a guitar. Edit: i enjoy some rap. Gorillaz, de la soul, linkin park, that stuff. Otherwise, not my thing.

[@Blaze15086]

Perhaps you just listened to the wrong artist? From a person who used to not enjoy rap, Ive now found quite a few that appeal to me as a musician.

[@mummyhugo]

search up hip hop songs that sample and then your favourite genre.

[@emekao500]

I can definitely see how rap isn’t for everyone but there is a lot of variety there what I’ve always liked.

[@SparksSowa]

did not expect morgan & morgan on my blustre today

[@venomase5572]

8:34 you included my comment but had the wrong pic in the back😭😭😭 Glad im in it tho i was giggling like a little girl when i realised

[@themessiah4071]

At the end of the day. I don’t think these people matter much honestly. We could say rap isn’t music but at the end of the day they’re the ones missing out. I’m still listening and they aren’t, if I’m just listening to short podcasts and not music then I’ll go ahead and listen to it.

[@HappyManOfficial]

Ben Shapiro didnt think rap was music till he joined the game

[@wafflepickled]

Interesting thing to say considering Dave Blunts actually invented music

[@Semitotal]

According to the rhythm-melody-harmony thing solo voice or sax-drums duo aren't music either and that's obviously nonsense.

[@nondescriptcat5620]

also literally every rap song has melody and harmony. they straight up don't understand what those terms are referring to.

[@emekao500]

@@nondescriptcat5620he he says that then contradicts him self by saying rap doesn’t have a lot of harmony or melody. Admitting rap still has both.

[@gem6922]

As someone who goes to music school, I think it's very telling that most of the people here enjoy rap/hip hop to some extent, or at the very least considers it music. In fact my roommate introduced me to To Pimp a Butterfly, which has become one of my favorite albums.

[@Emmanuel-t1u2h]

Wtf I thought Jerry Garcia was chill 1:32

[@mr.monkey1914]

I mean he is only partially correct because the word rap does indeed mean talking in its most original context (which was before rap music was a thing) but obviously this fact doesn't say anything about wether or not rap is music. It was a poor attempt on his part to intellectualize his dislike for rap music. Yap

[@OnlyFor_music]

"rap isn't music" Meanwhile Kendrick is out here accepting a Pulitzer

[@thomo2127]

You only know what a Pulitzer prize is coz of kendrick let's be real😂

[@Matt-nv2qg]

As a professional musician with several decades and degrees under my belt I can only provide my take, which nobody needs to agree with. This is not a problem of the validity of an artform, it's a problem of language and exposure. Rap is a valid artform, unquestionably. I would say it's music. But that is where we begin to get into an issue. "Music" isn't well segregated between music for entertainment/vibe and music for artistic contribution (and yes, there can certainly be a difference, just as there can certainly be overlap). We lack language to delineate the two that doesn't require significant explanation and common exposure to a massive history of the artform. Just as 'artists' may be sculptors vs painters, or 'athletes' may be basketball players or gymnasts, delineation can be important, albeit that importance is subjective. The issue is we don't have those delineated terms when discussing music for entertainment vs music for artistic contribution. There is rap that I would put in the former category, the later category, and in both- just as I would put some classical music in both or either. The discussion needs the language to facilitate it. And, for what it's worth, musicians did this to themselves. Reviewing a history of western music will show a gradual increase in public acceptance of increased complexity and dissonance until around the 1940's. Why? Well, the answer isn't rock n roll, though that contributed- it was bebop. Musicians were tired of playing for record execs financial gain (ie, bigband swing dance music- entertainment focused) and said screw it, we're playing the most complex thing we can, screw public acceptance... then along came rock n roll. It certainly also didn't help that bebop came at a time where recording was not allowed as resources were needed for the WW2 effort instead- causing the public to become completely slapped in the face with too much all at once ("bebop") when that lifted. Entertainment music is valuable- it's a gateway into the art, and valid on its own. But I would say there is value in having language to discuss both separately- they are not always or usually the same thing (though subjectively they can be). Having that discussion is a valuable philosophic engagement- insisting that there is an objective fact to the matter (in either direction), to me, isn't.

[@RedditBossMiguel]

I understand where you're coming from, but I still have to respectfully disagree. While rap may have rhythm and lyrics, it really doesn’t align with what I consider music. Music, in its traditional sense, involves melody and harmony, which are foundational elements that rap often lacks. It’s more of a rhythmic spoken word performance rather than music in the classical sense. You mention that rap can fall into categories like entertainment or artistic contribution, but even in the artistic category, rap just doesn’t meet the full definition of music for me. Without the melodic structures and harmonies that are typically present in music, I can’t see it as music the way we define it in classical or jazz traditions. It’s valid as an art form, but I wouldn’t call it music.

[@Matt-nv2qg]

@@RedditBossMiguel And that's totally cool if you disagree. You've specifically called out "Music in it's traditional sense"- where you're coming from with that makes sense. I would potentially say that if the barometer (and yes I'm cherry-picking here) is "Without the melodic structures and harmonies that are typically present in music, ", then I can hum melodically the chorus of "Mockingbird" by Eminem, or play it on a piano- but couldn't do so with John Cage's "4:33". That's why I see it as a spectrum of overlap- it kind of refuses to sit perfectly still in a clean box one way or the other, hence the need for delineated terms and a spectrum of coverage. Maybe "Music" is too low to start the delineation for your taste- maybe "Music vs. Spoken word" or "Music vs Performance Art". That's valid to a philosophic discussion of art. I think one point I was intending is that having the capacity to have the discussion is a piece of what's lacking based on commonly agreed terminology (in whatever form that takes), and art (regardless of categorization) is intended to prompt that discussion/introspection- ergo people get passionate and there's a view of disrespect instead of categorization because the parameters of the categorization aren't widely agreed or not potentially seen as equally valid and important. Having a different view is totally valid, thanks for the intelligent response my dude.

[@franciothatguy]

@@RedditBossMiguel oh well, I respectfully disagree. I think that music shouldn't be recognized by a criterium, but by the raw emotion. Also, I think that really most rap music does have a melody that enriches the beat itself. Also the flow can definitely qualify as a melody.

[@Mrtinnemyerhater1]

I will NOT be reading allat

[@VoidySan]

The song "Borderline" by Sewerslvt changed my life. I wasn't a "That ain't music" person, but it changed the way I look at life, music, and creation as a whole system of linked parts. The first few listens was "The hell am I listening to" cut to now where it's genuinely one of my favorite songs. Maybe even top 15.

[@GermanKat-u4q]

All music is music whether you like it or not

[@sam_underscore]

The only genre I've heard so far that I just can't call music is "noise", for example Pulse Demon by Merzbow

[@WeFloatForever]

I bet none of the people that say this would say that the beats aren't music especially because there are many genres that don't have lyrics that they would definitely consider music (like classical). So if you take a melody, add additional harmony and rhythm with the drums and 808s/bass, than by their definition you have music. Add even more rhythm on top of that with the vocals and you have their idea of rap. Also most rap vocals have a lot of melodic elements to them. People that say this haven't looked into rap at all let alone the different styles. Most people that say this are probably really religious or really sensitive. I guarantee no one who claims rap isn't music is gonna try to argue against this.

[@RedditBossMiguel]

I see what you're saying, but I still think rap doesn't fit the traditional definition of music. While there are certainly beats and rhythms in rap, it’s the absence of melody and harmony that makes it distinct from what we normally think of as music. Instrumental genres like classical or electronic are focused on complex arrangements of melody and harmony, which is what I believe is the true essence of music. Sure, some rap vocals can have melodic elements, but it’s primarily rhythm-based with spoken words. When you strip it down, it lacks the foundational elements of music that make something like a symphony or a song with strong melody truly musical. You can add bass and rhythm all you want, but without melody, it's hard to consider it "music" in the traditional sense.

[@WeFloatForever]

​@@RedditBossMiguel Have you listened to rap beats? As a producer, hearing you say that there's no melody is painful. There's not only melody in the beats, but over the past decade of rap it's become incredibly popular to use your voice as an insturment in rap (Carti, Travis Scott, Uzi, etc.) Also no where your the definition of music does it say that the melodies have to be complex like you were talking about. Go listen to XO Tour Life and tell me that's not music.

[@RedditBossMiguel]

@@WeFloatForever I see your argument, but I still don’t think rap fits the traditional definition of music. Just because there are melodies in the beats or vocal manipulation doesn’t mean it qualifies as music in the same way that, say, a symphony or a pop song does. In those genres, the melody and harmony are foundational and drive the piece forward. Rap, on the other hand, is primarily built around rhythm, lyrics, and flow. It’s not the absence of melody that makes it stand out - it's that the vocals are more about rhythm and wordplay, not melody or harmony. While some modern rap might incorporate melodic elements, the primary focus is still on the beat and the rhythm of the delivery, which is different from how traditional music operates. And while I get that the definition of music can be broad, I still think that when we talk about 'music' in a conventional sense, we’re talking about something that involves melody and harmony working together. Rap, for the most part, just doesn’t fit into that mold, no matter how innovative or experimental the artists get with their sound.

[@PeterC17]

​@@RedditBossMiguel music is the word for art that we experience with our ears.

[@nondescriptcat5620]

@@RedditBossMiguel

[@itspinebro]

Rap has rhythm obviously. It also has melody. Very often there's instrumental behind a rap song, and even if there wasn't, any spoken sentence can feel like its sung in the right context. And there are harmonies in rap as well ! People say that rap isn't music, they used to say jazz was not music too. I'm certain when electronic music was starting to get big, people complained as well. To me, they are most likely racist, even if they don't intend to be harmful towards poc. Ignorance is enough to make you racist. And making such definitive claims without even thinking about it, exploring the genre a little or anything is absurd

[@grapenuts111]

7:47 oh hey that's me!

[@ilovemonke420]

coolio :D

[@swafty5813]

I had no clue if Morgan & Morgan was real and was bewildered at first but kudos for getting a sponsorship that wasn’t some scammy shit (though firms are obviously like that)

[@Mattznick]

it's pretty common for young white boys who only listen to rock to say this and i've always wondered why

[@ConflictingJumps]

"I Wonder"

[@a13m34]

​@@ConflictingJumpsAND I'M BACK ON MY GRIND🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣

[@ConflictingJumps]

@@a13m34 Why he keep giving me hot lines? 🗄🔥🔥🔥

[@NavyScoper]

@@ConflictingJumps lol ye reference

[@belac0662]

I said this when I was younger and I take that back that kid was an idiot, I’d like to formally apologise