Thorsten Overgaard and the Leica. Personal review of the Leica M11 after one year of use.

[@ThorenTravels]

I love hearing Thorsten Overgaard speak in-depth about cameras I can't afford

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Ha ha 🙂

[@rumporridge1]

I thought the same…..and here I am shooting with an SL2 and a Q-P.

[@BarryMaskell]

@@rumporridge1 I thought the same and here I’m shooting on a Leica Panasonic

[@CompleteMisc]

Thorsten, I love the fact that you swim against the tide that the latest and greatest is what you need. As you said, when someone looks at a beautiful photo, no one asks what camera it was shot on. And thank you for reminding everyone that the true joy in Leica is the simplicity. Simplicity that forces you to slow down and think about the photograph. We all can often forget that in the chase for the shiny new object.

[@belivmi]

That’s true I ask which lens

[@FarkleMpls]

Best line (39:50) "It's never wrong to buy more lenses." Loved it! Thanks Thorsten -- I always enjoy your videos.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@eddiema3162]

so good! sharing the core of why taking a photo, truly a Master! Salute to you Thorsten.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@johntocho8954]

It's been about a year since I bought the Leica 10R, very pleased that I did. Went in to my authorized Leica shop and the guys were furious, they had just received a long awaited resupply of M10-Rs on the same day. I was trying to make up my mind and I offered to write out a check and they could wait for it to clear. Negotiated a $1500 discount, they had 1 less to carry the cost on their balance sheet, paid them in 'cash', so no 3% fee for using a card. For them it was really a $1000 cash discount due to no card fees. Needless to say, I will be waiting for the M12. I never understood the need for 60MP. For others it may seem important, but as you said, it is all about 'my needs, how I use the camera.' Thank you for such a straightforward, honest review...it is just one of many reasons myself and others hold you in such high regard. Truth! Honesty! They are in short supply these days.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

60MP is what to expect, and forward we will get same or more. Works surprisingly well in post with no slow downs. Good deal on the M10-R. The way Leica works is that dealers out in orders and wait, and they never really know when they get the things (the way it works is that a dealer gets an invoice one day for the stuff, and the good arrive next day. Before then they usually don't know it is coming). And then, suddenly they get all they ordered a while back. And often it seem to be when Leica online store have saturated the market and a new model comes out. Then they get the f/1.2 or M11 or whatever they ordered long ago. A bit like being on the waiting list as a end user at a store. Except we can say no thanks when it arrives. Anyways, that is the system and thy there are still lots or M10, M10-P and M10-R around. How it can be used to the end users advantage is up to one self. But you seemed to do all right on it 🙂

[@tamilhoward9708]

I am keeping my M10M and M10-R. I need nothing else. This was a really thoughtful review.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@David-my3uu]

Spot on, as usual Thorsten; your no-BS insights are most welcome and very refreshing. I am perfectly satisfied with my good old M-10, the "plain" one. It has all the megapixels I need and great color. Maybe the battery is not as long lasting as the 11 but so what, that doesn't affect my use given I'm not a pro. and certainly can't imagine shooting hundreds of pictures in a day given my analog-type approach to composition, etc. Glad to have another of your very well done reviews. And, yes, you make the very best Leica camera straps anywhere!

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@biginjapan8]

I use a Pentax K-1 since the release here in Japan. It never froze it, never stuck, never failed. Its really hard to cope with "minors" issues in a camera with such price. My M10-r is just everything that i need in a camera.

[@Deetroiter]

Pentax K1 = LEGEND

[@heystrictunit]

I understand your approach. M10 is a more refined camera. I see most of the upgrades necessary to keep M a modern camera. They just need to figure out how to make them blend better with the M system. I don't mind the BSI sensor. You can easily ignore DNG size switching. Although since I've switched to a 5K display, 24-Megapixels are not enough for me in digital, and the ISO performance of M11 is much better than M10-R. Of all the new upgrades, the only thing I would change is having only sensor metering available. While it is much more reliable, it changes the shooting experience and makes it less mechanical. I would love for M12 to bring back an option to use an old metering system. Even so, it would be great if they would get rid of the on/off switch and make it like in M6 TLL by adding a OFF position on the shutter speed dial. While I miss the tactile feeling of an old bottom plate, I think the new battery and USB-C charging are a welcome upgrade. I can now have one battery and USB cable in the bag and charge the camera from my smartphone or in the car. Yes, the bottom feels now like an afterthought, and I believe they will refine it for M12. It would be nice to have a USB-C port and the plate. As for the colors, I also think they need to fix them. And this is the biggest flaw of M11 for me. They fixed the colors with a firmware update before, and I'm a bit disappointed that they did not touch the colors since the launch. It's not true you can't fix color translation in Lightroom or Capture One. That's what profiles are for. I use Cobalt Image profiles for M11, and they do a much better job reproducing natural colors than the default one. It's a much better base for further adjustments. But I expect M cameras to make photos that are almost print ready out of the box since they made them like that before.

[@r3dwheel]

You are one of the best inspiration in this running world. And the best thing about you is that you are simple, and you talk and teach about photography in a very simple way. I learn a lot from you every time I have time to watch your videos. Thank you, keep it up 🤝🏾

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you. That is what it is about, getting inspired 🙂

[@Alexxxxir]

I wholeheartedly concur with your statements. Thorsten is an endless source of inspiration for me. Because of him I bought M 240 and I watch his videos tirelessly, never getting bored.

[@ScaleDreamsStudio]

Thanks for the honest review. I love my M10-R and I don't think the 11 is the right camera for everyone. From what I see it looks like you have more tonal range to your Black and White photos. That's how I like mine as well. Cheers!

[@mwales2112]

The thought of upgrading to a newer camera does sound like fun, but my pair of M240s still bring me joy to use and produce great images that make me happy. Another great review Thorsten...

[@carlosmcse]

The M10R is still Leica’s best digital M that you can buy new. If anyone is looking for a new M, buy it before they don’t make it anymore. Unfortunately everyone in that stupid Leica forum is taking this video personally, but the truth hurts. This video is 100% correct about the M11.

[@ThomasEisl.Photography]

Thorsten, the Bokeh - Bouquet remark cracked me up. Your subtle humour is just genius. Hope you drop by at some point, in Vienna! Best wishes

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you. I miss Vienna. The bread, the cafes, the everything 🙂

[@j5daniel182]

The new features actually make the M11 a pick up and go camera. You can charge it anywhere and the battery lasts forever. There is an internal memory. You can literally just pick it up for sudden trips without worry as long as you have a usb-c cable which you can also buy anywhere. 60mp also allows you to survive with just bringing one lens as well.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Very true, the Leica M11 is a digital Leica M with improvements that then become hard to imagine not having. If you are happy with the image quality as well and have no issues with it and find your way through menu set-up, you're all set.

[@ralfferfi2860]

Somehow it's annoying. Every time a new major Leica M comes out, there is nagging about the colors. And the older the model gets, the more gloriously the colors are, used as the measure of all things. At the beginning, by the way, it was said that the M11 colors would again be more closely oriented to the M9 colors. Well, but in the end, no photo goes out without post-processing anyway, right? I have the M11 and had an M9 before. I am extremely happy with the sensor. The dynamic range is excellent, on par with the times and the color fidelity is also on a very high level in my opinion. The light meter is much more accurate than on the M9. The shutter noise is different, ok. But you can't tell that from the pictures, can you? For me, the M11 is an excellent tool. I love working with it. A feeling that did not really come up with my Fujis.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

You have to go with what is real to you and what you see. A lot of people are happy with the Leica M11 overall, with the colors, and some like the B&W JPG's. It would have been helpful (for all models) if editing profiles (for Lightroom and Capture One) existed upon release, as well as a statement or guide from Leica as to what their aim was with the sensor and colors. For the DMR sensor (which is the mother of M8, M8.2 and M9) the aim was "Kodachrome colors" and the DMR really was and is an amazing sensor (2004, 10 MP).

[@jannengelken6017]

Thorsten thank you so much to sum up the things! You made my day ...

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@mpw621]

Wow, what a great talk! I like your view of what an artist does vs what AI does.

[@jinwoo517]

Much appreciate the honesty! Thank you. This was tremendously helpful!

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@eintefeenstra5882]

Hi thorsten, first video where you keep to yourself. Impressed bij your honesty and thoughts about photography. I,ll be following you.

[@konst2007x]

half of the video is about color issues and b&w conversion... makes me love my M10M even more :-)

[@winedemonium]

I love the BS bio story Thorsten. 😀 Good down to earth advice in this video. I think some people may be disappointed for not 'more' on the M11, but actually what your video contains is the advice people need to hear/see. You get to the heart of it. So, I was impressed by this 'review'.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@fsi2210]

The second half, non gear talk was excellent. The point of using of 61mp camera or any camera to have it do nothing but sit on an hdd, is such a great point.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@GrenvilleMelonseedSkiff496]

Great video as usual … thanks. I chose the Fuji X100V as an upgrade from my trusty iPhone 8 and I’m very happy with it. That said … I would like to think that a Leica camera might still be in my future.

[@Pablosan7]

Mega fedt Thorsten! Super godt med stof til eftertanke, direkte fra den måde du formår at viderebringe din erfaring, destilleret og raffineret, meget logisk, beskrivende og neutralt. Fuldendt med det behagelige video-setup, som heller ikke springer i øjenene på en mættende måde men er med til at underbygge den essens af kommunikeret informationen. Tak for de guldkorn 😊

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Tak for de pæne ord 🙂

[@carlosmcse]

The Leica M really needed 1/8000 mechanical shutter. My Fuji had that in 2016. My M10R is working flawlessly. But the freezing and bricking issues with the M11 are very concerning. I don’t think the SD card interface even works are full UHS-II speeds. I don’t like the M11. M10R is reliable and perfectly simple.

[@jacobjurg3746]

My M8 had that 1/8000 in 2006 :-)

[@youmustmonthebiff]

Are you photographing the sun and/or a flying bullet?

[@carlosmcse]

@@youmustmonthebiff No. when you’re wanting to shoot at f2 or below in the middle of the day.

[@pietrotpunkt]

I think the decision to buy a M11 depends more on where you come from than any thing else. If you already own a M10 then the M11 maybe is not convincing enough. But does it really make sense to buy a M10 today?

[@rkrosschell]

Really, really appreciate such a great, unbiased, honest review. Thanks Thorsten!

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@nuenn]

Thanks for your true opinion about the colors. You're the first who mentioned the not so good colors. I'm traveling all over the world and photograph with my M240 since 7 years and love the colors out of the camera. Now I am having a deep look on the M11 and am about to buy one. Only this video holds me back. As you mentioned, are the colors of the M10-r more comparable to the M240? Thanks again for your true opinion, Thorsten.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Not easy to draw a direct line between the models. I would say, getting files straight out of camera and edit them, the result should be pleasing. Once you start doubting you can trust the colors and have to do special things, it becomes odd. I meet people who find the M11 colors beautiful, and I meet people who find them odd. Which shows colors is a very personal preference. And I guess, if you look at pictures you will see that there are many ideas of what is a good picture, technically as well as aesthetically. This is my personal review and view on the M11. Having said all that, and the reasons for this, is that the M240 also had many opinions when it came out. And the M9 before that (believe it or not;; now "everybody" seem to agree its the most beautiful colors!?!). I think M240 > M10 > M10-R are in a line where they are similar, but improved. M11 is a departure from this, and it cannot really be described other than that "usually hue has to be adjusted with additional -6 to -8 to get it somewhere correct. This seems to be the only consensus I have found amongst people that worked with the M11 colors. Long talk to answer a simple question. I think, if you can, shoot a handful of images with M10-R and M11, and then look at them and decide for yourself what is the most pleasing to you. The short answer would me, "Yes, M10-R is more compatible with the M240 that you are used to".

[@nuenn]

@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard Dear Thorsten - I fully agree with your statement. Colors are personal preferences. And when I starting shooting Digital M's with the M8.2 - M9 - M240 I could see a "uniqueness" in the rendered DNG files in terms of color. And I think these unique colors add a character to the images and has been part of the so called Leica look (apart from other terms like e. g. fall-off of the bokeh,...) And a sidenote: Your images produce this character very well ;-) Anyway, the M11 give us more vibrant colors and some like it - some don't. There is a video comparison among this two cameras on the Griniflix channel and I could immediately recognize which image is taken by which camera. That's for me a hint, which colors I prefer. And I had the opportunity to discuss the new M11 and had a "hands on" in the Leica Store San Francisco in June last year - where we've came to the same result. And talked about your images and your work ... Thanks again for the long answer - appreciated every word

[@mehmetbayraktar1045]

Awesome to hear your thoughts on m11, still holding on to my m10. I will wait for the new generation Leica AI cameras 😉take care and all best in 2023!!

[@is1dre]

Love how this was less a review of the M11 and more of philosophy of photography

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

I like to talk more about photography than cameras, frankly

[@richardcooke1124]

Hello Thorsten, good video, I’ve watched it several times. I’m waiting for the Q3 to be announced. Regards, Richard PS. Regarding Chroma-80, I think you meant COBOL-80 😊

[@thomastaesu]

Thank you for your presets. I can't wait to apply the to my m9 files!

[@MichaelBoelton]

I have the q2 and have contemplated purchasing the m11 for quite a while. but the q2 truly does everything I want the camera to do.

[@dominiquepierre-nina4581]

You have hit the nail on the head, Leica is / Should be as simple as possible ISO, Aperture and Shutter Speed. But for some reason things are getting complicated ... I also think leica is at a cross road with the M because it either retains its simplicity or got full digital with a built in EVF, which will change the ethos of the Leica M. Unless an upgrade will made a noticeable differance to ones work flow I don't see need for it.

[@Xingqiwu387]

I'd be hard-pressed if I had to (or could) choose between the Hasselblad X1D II 100C, the Leica M11, and the Leica M11 monochrom.

[@piterfromwawa]

Your comment on Colors made my rethink my purchase plan. I am giving up on M11. This magenta was too noticeable on your sample photos. I suppose the situation hasn’t changed with the latest firmware update?

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Yes, the colors will not be updated with firmware. They are what they are. I suggested Leica to make an alternative setting of DNG so one could choose an original M11 and a new neutral M11 profile. They sort of are in disbelief that the colors are not right, but did ask me to do some tests.

[@pacoguerilla3097]

Hello Thorsten, We can’t say nobody told us, anymore ! indeed taking picture is the point, and the best camera is the one we forget. It reminds me the old times when we were choosing a film for its rendering of colors, different on Agfa and Kodak… What about the 3 definitions available (apart from the file size) ?

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Leica Leica M10-P ASC limited edition has - as the only one - some special JPG presets built-in. I've felt tempted several times to get it ... store.ascmag.com/products/leica-m10-p-asc-100-edition

[@gregcorker2193]

Informative and engaging. I use a Nikon, but find your perspectives are widely applicable to photography in general.

[@camelotvanerven9667]

Thanks for your honest review.

[@tjmanou6422]

I agree with you. And M series should stay true to M philosophy. Maybe add EVF but that's it, if they want to add new electronic, video etc features let them add to SL cameras, not M.

[@Deetroiter]

I’m very curious and interested in getting the M11, but I’m very hesitant also because of too many stories of freezing, shutter lockups, rangefinder out of focus from the box, etc. My feeling is if I’m spending, especially, that kind of money that it should be absolutely flawless. Wondering if I’d be better off buying a used M10 instead

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

You have to look at them and make your own decision. The M10-R, M10-P and M10 are well working, well proven models with 5-6 years behind them. They really do the work. M11 has better battery, electronic shutter option and of course 60MP ... but the colors are really a headache.

[@arylgg]

“M11, we’re working on our relation still “

[@yuidfbse]

I used to shoot Black and White film when I was just learning photography. When I started working in photography, just as everything became digital, I missed the film days and always converted my digital photos with unhappy results. A few years ago I finally bought a Leica M246 Monochrome and it's became my favorite camera of all times. I love every file that comes out of it, I love the sensor, I love because it's slow to operate it forces me to slow down and be more precise with my photography, and I specially love it's limitations that force me to overcome them by becoming a better photographer. Above all Iove it's simplicity.. what I need, is there.. no 1000 pages, tabs menus, submenus and quick menus with endless idiotic functions and keys and computer like crap that is impossible to memorize worth of stuff and features 98% of which I don't care about and would never use. I have zero, none, zilch interest in any new cameras or even newer Leicas. I am connected to my gear in a special way the forces me to think and master the tool in a way all the conveniences of the new (amazing) cameras don't. And with every photo I take and frequently print, my joy is endless. Thank you for all your videos📷♥️☀️

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

It's a great point to be at, finding the camera that just works and not having to wonder what else to do. Well done 🙂

[@bluestarcesium]

The M11 sounds good, because of how little extra gear a photographer needs to shoot everything.🙂🙂✝️

[@Alexxxxir]

Wonderful review and excellent points. Bravo!

[@dawster1949]

Great video Thorsten! As ever, your wider, more philosophical feelings about photography (and Ai) were more thought-provoking than the camera review itself. Strangely, I’ve been thinking about this recently, considering what I want to achieve in the New Year. Funny you mentioning the XPan. This was a camera I owned back when it was new. I’ve recently been getting new scans of my old films taken on that camera, with much better detail than I had before. I’m now happy to make my living as a commercial photographer, but looking back at my old XPan pictures has reminded me about the unique perspective I had with that camera. I’ve never felt more passionate about photography than when it was in my hand, and maybe the pictures were more unique than anything I’ve done since. I’m now facing a dilemma…do I buy another XPan, with the huge cost and risk that the electronics might die at any moment, or just accept that life and technology moves on, so find another solution?! Of course, in an ideal world Hasselblad/Fuji would upgrade and re-release that camera, as Leica has done with the M6. I’d be first in the queue, but sadly I doubt that’s ever going to happen… Keep up the great work Thorsten 😊

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

X-Pan, it made me very enthusiastic too. It made me see things in a whole new way. Tempting to return to it, but you can crop M11 or other digital full-frame pictures to that size. See here: overgaard.dk/Hasselblad-XPAN-and-Fujifil-TX1-panorama-64-24-format-Film-Camera-Review-by-photographer-Thorsten-Overgaard.html

[@dawster1949]

@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard Thank you! I’ve also been using a Q2 for street photography which works great for cropping. Nothing replaces the XPan wide viewfinder though…

[@RS-Amsterdam]

Great video and content. Example to all. Thanks for sharing

[@WACONimages]

Another nice video. I a very curious if you might have tried the French Pixii digital rangefinder with M-mouthm

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

I haven't tried the Pixii rangefinder. Somehow the timing is always off when they introduce something new. In fact, I have never seen anyone using it in real life.

[@dutchjerry1234]

Thorsten, thanks again for your frank opinion. First, loved seeing the Pentax 67 again. That was the camera to have for fashion on location in the 90ties. I even had one body dedicated (adapted) for the NPC polaroid back. If you like to have a really smooth progressing bokeh, then use one of those camera’s with the Pentax lenses. And for the best black and white, print those nice 6x7cm negatives on real pressed baryta paper. Not much can beat that. But it will cost you a lot of practice/time/money. Nowadays I use the M11 and I’m really happy with it (no lock-ups yet). I came from M9, then the M240. I preferred the M240 because you could use an EVF together with the Leica R-lenses. Also you can swivel the EVF up and look down into the camera which I prefer. Cannot give you any comparison to the M10 but with every new body and sensor you will get a different colour rendering out of the box. You’ll need to spent time and shoot a lot of images to get familiar again with your camera/files. Before I spent a lot of time in the darkroom to get a great result. I still spend a lot of time with post-production, but now on the computer. Love to hear the nostalgic talk about the look of Kodachrome 64 or Fuji Velvia, but using those films professionally was not simple at all. Half a stop underexposed and they were close to unusable, especially when photographing people with darker skin tones. Compared to the sensor of a modern digital camera virtually no film type can be described as neutral. Now I can get any quality I want from my digital camera. The Raw files of the M11 are superb and a joy to work with. I love the battery life and the digital shutter because I prefer to shoot my lenses wide open. I select lenses with specific apertures so I can shoot them wide open and get the DOF I want. It’s great to shoot the summilux lenses wide-open in bright daylight without a ND filter (those filters also change the tone somewhat). But you don’t need a M11. Lenses are much more important and Leica lenses are a great investment as well. There’re some beautiful R lenses, like the APO-Elmarit-R 180mm 2.8 which works great with a M camera with EVF. Also invest in a good monitor with hardware calibration so you can really see what you are doing.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

It was in the original video idea to include that I actually spoke to a few dealers and a good deal of M11 owners, and most of them say the M11 is selling well, and many users are really happy with it.

[@Funktrainer]

My M8 and M9-P never froze, my SL (Typ 601) did it already one time. That's progression.

[@Gravitys-NOT-a-force]

I recently bought a Leica M-A, a very beautiful and very simple film camera. I do think that in the case of the M-A that Leica went one step too far toward simplicity, they left off a self-timer. Also, less simple or not, a quiet shutter is always useful.

[@charlesnguyen3517]

My M240-p gives me the most beautiful colors when set in vivid color film mode. The M10 I have has way less saturation when set in vivid mode. the colors are there but not as rich. M11 definitely has out of place colors or weird to say the least based on your pics. Thanks for the review

[@MarcAdesso]

I agree the colors are off/overdone on the M11. Hopefully, it’s not baked into the sensor and Leica can fix this with a firmware update!

[@mauricerijnders3507]

Don’t worry. Leica is about creativity. For quick copies of my surroundings I use my Sony A1 with GM lenses (easier than an iphone). Focus always spot on and (over)sharp images. Leica I use for creating photo’s. The swirly bokeh of my noktilux lenses is not what “my eyes see” in real life either. But man what a character. Surreal superbness. Be creative, shoot the crap out of your M11 and rock and roll (what would Lenny Kravitz say? 😅)

[@heystrictunit]

They changed M240 colors from really bad to the point that I would argue those are the best colors in digital M. Although I couldn't care less since I use Cobalt Image standard profile for M11. Looks excellent to my taste.

[@mauricerijnders3507]

@@heystrictunitThanks for pointing out Cobalt. Never heard of them till now 👍🏼✨

[@richarddenise3886]

Your videos are like a great book ... meant to be re-read! Much appreciate you and them!

[@mirrorless_mirror]

Video is of course about Leica, but that Pentax made my day. 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 I wish Pentax could make limited model in exactly that size, with that wooden handle and metal case, but digital inside and having 60MP sensor like that Leica. And have customizable electronic sounds of shutter, which would include that "helicopter" one.

[@darklunni]

My two ways of freeze with my M11 (Firmware: 1.6): 1. When the camera goes in standby mode and can’t return until I take out the battery. In this moment in viewfinder the frame is on 2. When I turn off the camera and can't on until take out the battery. SD card: SD SanDisk Extreme Pro 200 MB/S 128GB, before worked with a SD Kingstone Canvas Select Plus 128GB but also had freeze. Tried to format cards with SD Card Formatter and changed the time in saving mode but nothing...

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Yes, it is strange. I would email Leica customer service at [e-mail] and ask for their advice on what to do. Some cameras (like mine) seem to just go without any problems. There might be a batch of cameras, and if that is the case, they would know.

[@darklunni]

@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard Will try) Thank you!

[@Sohorolex]

Sounds really annoying, I've got an M11 which hasn't had any of those problems

[@gurugamer8632]

Try the new firmware 1.6.1

[@darklunni]

@@gurugamer8632 Thanks a lot. Already installed. Will see)

[@petergordon4666]

Thanks for the honest review. I think I will just continue with my M-9.

[@nilambe08]

A candid reviewer, thanks.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Welcome 🙂

[@friscobay8276]

I was waiting for this « one year later » video feedback. Beautiful light reflections on your background. Beautifully written work, as always. Thank you. I share your thoughts on photography and « joys »of post-editing & find very true your remarks on m11 ad campaigns, colour adjustments and overall user experience. M series being still quite an investment and it does suck that we have to wait 4 more years to get the « right » one. Oh, well.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂 M10-P is a statement that Leica does know how to make a camera.

[@friscobay8276]

Your professional dedication to Leica goes certainly in the same direction. After all the critical opinion only shows that we actually care.

[@eagleeyephoto8715]

White balance on a M11 going more magenta in same way as almost all Fujifilm camera’s beside x-pro 1, which is exceptional w.r.t white balance and filmic color output.

[@tedtedsen269]

Hello Thorsten will leica monocrom be a better alternativ to m11 shooting black and white

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Generally you can make b&w from color or monohchrom DNG. The Monochrom will have finer micro-details as the bayer filter is gone and you have 4x the pixels to record details. Not a feature you will notice in many photos, but technically the only difference. The main feature of Monochrom is that you don't have to give a damn about colors.

[@thomashilmersen711]

The big problem with the M cameras is that they are fragile. The rangefinder can easily be knocked out of allignment, it is not dust or water resistant, etc.. My M246 has many times failed on me due to drizzle and even simply due to dampness in a backpack or pocket. In contrast, the SL works well everywhere.

[@aerisurvey4934]

Great approach to the subject, as usual. I have some doubts that Leica will come back to the simplicity of the M10 on the M12, even if I hope they will. The shutter (and the sound of it) due the new light metering is that kind of issue that I can ´t stand, and that is hard to believe that Leica will drop the type of metering to go back to the simple shutter actuation of the M10-P/M10-R. The resolution is another issue. You can increase the resolution, but you can ´t defeat physics. Without an IBIS, the 60mp is already not practical in all scenarios, and I´m not seing Leica stop increasing the resolution in the next generation, and still be hard to fit the IBIS in such small body. The menu and the options around, is far too much for a Leica M. ..and of course, the colours. I can ´t believe that Leica couldn´t manage to get it right, after such amazing colours from the M9 till the M10, M10R. Was one of the strong selling points to get into the Leica ecosystem. As you said once, they should hire/contact/learn.. do something to get the knowledge from the guys that used to be Imacon, they are the best to produce colours, that´s what sets apart the Hasselblad. So, that´s why having the option to buy the M11 or the M10-R, I choose to buy the M10-R last summer, after using the M-P (typ240) for 2 years... and I think is better to get another one, just in case.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

I think Leica must decide what they want to do, and then do it. One camera with as few buttons, dials and menu items as possible, one firm decision on MP, color space etc.

[@tor2919]

You are so right. I have been taking photos for 25 years, had degrees, business all that. I’ve used almost everything. Simplicity is everything and I hope Leica can withstand the camera reviewers like Chris/Jordan and others. Reviewers are always asking for more. Never ever do they suggest taking things away. It’s infuriating and because of that we have these unusable sonys or Fujis or whatever. I hope you can use your influence at Leica to steer them back towards simplicity with the M. The M11 is a clear step in the wrong direction in my opinion. Get the old light meter and shutter back in the M12!

[@taigenetsudo4273]

So, you already saw this, but when I posted it on your M9 video I hadn’t seen this, or heard you give your thoughts on AI tech. The ‘Articles of Faith’ about Leica. I asked ChatGPT to tell me what the Ten Commandments would be if Leica was a religion. It was hard to get AI to answer this question, but it eventually did. I tend to agree with you that although this seems quite clever for a computer to produce, my initial human idea was the most unique thing about it. The rest of the info it has gleaned from the internet. Articles of Faith 1. Thou shalt only use Leica cameras and lenses, for they are the finest tools for capturing the beauty of the world. 2. Thou shalt always strive for the perfect image, for it is a sacred pursuit. 3. Thou shalt respect the work of other Leica shooters, for they are your brothers and sisters in the faith. 4. Thou shalt not defile thy Leica gear with cheap accessories or modifications. 5. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's camera, for jealousy is a sin. 6. Thou shalt not use thy Leica for anything other than the pursuit of photographic excellence. 7. Thou shalt honor the history and heritage of Leica, for it is the foundation of our faith. 8. Thou shalt share thy knowledge and experience with others, for the Leica community is built on mutual support. 9. Thou shalt keep thy Leica in good working condition, for it is a sacred trust. 10. Thou shalt always remember the Leica religion is about capturing the beauty of the world and sharing it with others. Thanks for another great addition to the philosophy of photography in this video! You’d make an amazing podcaster.

[@piterfromwawa]

Have the issues with the shutter been resolved via firmware update?

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Many issues have been resolved. Shooting singles with the M11 will still cause that "the stumble over each other" if you try to shoot fast singles one after the other. So the solution is to shoot Low Continuous and let the camera control the inteval between shots.

[@saurabhbhardwaj6753]

I have a M-D, it is just 20 MP but the reality is if I get the composition right, it can fill up my 32 inch screen with pristine images. So I need to wait for something which will make me move from MD to something else

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Hold on to that camera :-) 24MP it is. Just did an articel about this and the M10-D and M11-D future prediction: www.overgaard.dk/leica-M11-D-digital-rangefinder-camera-page-8.html

[@arthurpeterson5273]

Very nice video---thank you! Informative and thought provoking!

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you Arthur 🙂

[@vvvvvvvvv1939]

Do you think they will make a hybrid M style camera with a built in Evf curious

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Yes, I do. They have stated that if they can sell a few thousands or enough to make it worth their while, they will.

[@SavedbybGrace]

I’ve owned many cameras over 40 years. Blads, Leica R & M series, Nikon F3,F4 and others, an early adopter of digital when I operated a main street studio… So from Canon D30 /60 to 1DS1&2, Leica M8/9… whew!!! All that to say the M11P is the best camera I’ve owned. ever… The colours and the skin tones are unbelievably good. Who knows, maybe the M11P improved in some way on the M11. Or perhaps the M11 used by Thorsten was made on a Friday.

[@costascosta273]

Somewhat assumptive, but like many Leica owners I like the gentler draw of film and the lower megapixel digital Leicas. I appreciate the lens also plays a big part in this but this one has too much going on for my taste. The photos I’ve seen online remind me of the current crop of high resolution cameras from Sony and the gang.

[@Sniper5354]

I actually like the colour of my M11 more than my M10P. It is simply more "organic". One thing we should also keep in mind, is that both the lens department and camera department of Leica are heading towards the APO direction. There is an unofficial consensus that M11 is built for APO M lenses. In real life, a Noctilux 0.95 or vintage lenses (pre Karbe era), when paired with an M11, could hardly produce clarities or colours as clean as an APO lens. My Noctilux 0.95 would sometimes cause a kind of "dirty yellow tint" when paired with my M11, and this has never happened with my APO lenses. I am aware that Thorsten is never a great fan of APO lenses. Could this be the reason why he dislikes the colour tone of M11?

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

I am aware that 28/1.4, 50/0.95 and other lenses behave in a less desirable way on the M11. The fundamental color cast is also happening with 35 APO and 50 APO. But I agree with what you say, it is obvious when you look at APO photos on the M11 that they beat out more resolution than you would ever know they could, before M11.

[@NikCan66]

Always great points

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@BilBrown]

M11-P, I skipped the M11, kept my M10-R for a long time and never got the M10-R black paint (IfI would have I likely would not have bothered with the M11-P. There is a lot to this variant of digital M that has made me rethink my shooting. With and M, I shoot very fast. Maybe this is better for something like a Q3 or an SL2/SL2-S, but for me it has always been and M. The electronic shutter doesn't work for me, the jello of the rolling shutter is a lot for me. I shoot flash with my M, the cool thing is in shooting flash with a Leica SF 40 or SF 60 you get high speed sync, like the leaf shutter of the Q or S (CS lenses) this means I can capture things very fast and in motion (either me or them) and I am not regulated to 1/50. 1/160, or 1/250th shutter speed but I have shot with flash at 1/2000th and no issue - with the right flash. I have had issues, the freezing was yes the SD card, but sometimes even happened with the internal memory only. I had to reset the camera and start again and there is no issue. No corrupt DNG etc (others have had this issue). What I figured out is, the buffer (as good as it is) with DNG+JPG at 60MP does fill quickly. This stops the camera from shooting. To take care of this I have tried using S or M DNG+JPG, once I do this I can shoot pretty fast. If I just do S (18MP) JPG only, I can pretty much shoot forever. Also, as you have mentioned... the shutter. The way you get around the shutter opening and closing and opening and closing is the burst options, either slow burst or high speed burst. This seems to make the shutter work relatively well. This bothers me a little, but for everything else I use my SL2, or a Q. As for colors... I'm with you my friend, I have no idea. I have been using LR and Capture One settings that emulate Kodachrome and that seems to even it out. I would say this sensor is what we would have called in the old days of video, a very "LIVE" capture. I didn't need as much post with the M240, M10, M10-R but with these files I need post to get them right. Thanks for this video. Onward, see you around!

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

See you around Mr Brown. Agree with you, and you seem to have taken note what and when it worked and when not

[@sirrobin]

What lens is mounted to that SL2 on the right?

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

That is a 85mm f/2.0 7artisans

[@sirrobin]

@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaardthank you!

[@mauricerijnders3507]

Please youtubers stop complaining about camera’s. If you like the old one better, stick to the old one. Saves you 9K. If changing the file size in a very simple Leica menu is too difficult… please remember the handling and development of film with chemicals and dark rooms (did that too loong 😅). And then Leica people complaining about true colors… That’s more of a Sony / Canon discussion. Leica is about creativity, no boundaries, maybe even art (?) and also film (even a new M6). You are also talking about a film and the old days a lot. How realistic are the colors of film? Well not! That’s the characteristics of all different films. Kodakchrome, Portra, Velvia, Ilford, and many many more. But when it comes to digital it is suddenly about true colors when you can do what ever you want in post. If it is about results straight out of camera and less complexity you may include the better light metering system in the M11 and higher dynamic range. I love all my Leica’s but if you are new to Leica the M11 is not a bad choice, just because of flexibility in files size, light metering and DR.

[@peetje28021970]

I had M film cameras in the payt but I’m happy with my SL2s reporter.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Yes, the Leica SL2-S Reporter is beautiful

[@tor2919]

Just bought a M10M. To me it is peak digital M. I dislike the shutter sound and feel of the M11 and that is enough to disqualify it.

[@gurugamer8632]

I’m not rich, I have a middle class job. But I did buy a black Leica M11 with Leica APO Summicron 35mm F2 ASPH.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

It is my opinion (and experience) that you get a Leica because you want one, not because you can afford it. I know many rich who dream of one but somehow can't get themselves to pull the trigger. And then I know relatively poor students and people who manage to get one and several lenses.

[@janw.jensen2490]

"The Pentax (67) takes 12 pictures on a roll of film". I'm not so sure about that. The one I used took 10 or 20.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

I might not have that right. Have a box of film and haven't touched it for a year 🙂

[@dankspangle]

'Bokeh' is from the Japanese word 'boke' meaning blur or haze. When you say 'it comes from wine', you may be thinking of 'bouquet' meaning 'smell'. Though I like the idea of a lens having a bouquet.

[@HartponderJr]

Bravo!

[@jeanthill8555]

15:57 M11: not correctable “crème"-😢colors with a blue shift of a Sony sensor. Unsurpassable natural colors (Leica look) with the M8.2 and M10P!

[@acrummey85]

I have the free book. Great read…

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Excellent. Glad you liked it 🙂

[@be8059]

Great video! Maybe, a leica lens video would be nice.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Yes, that is coming 🙂

[@schumif1champ]

I still think the M10 is the last of the real M cameras bodies. M11 is great but a departure from the simplicity of the m10. Also I get the new battery is bigger and lasts longer. But two small batteries of the M10 were never a hassle to have in my bag and never ended up needing. The baseplate makes the camera look much cleaner than having a line around the battery and a USB C port just exposed.

[@ronaldpiecek3535]

i would love to see a M10-D review

[@jjjoooojjj]

You made me laugh when you said "Even my car froze on me". I've instantly imagined Tesla covered in ice..

[@TheCastrence]

here in my country mostly old rich men owns that camera😊😊

[@zteefzeefje]

Hilarious bokeh comes from wine, you have a great sense of humor

[@wilfredshum3703]

That’s why I am keeping my other Ms since I am not making big prints and adding any of those very expensive APO lenses. Happy to have bought another refurbished M9 from Leica Wetzlar for my pure enjoyment. Absolutely correct that M should be designed for old school photographers. Off course, those special edition Ms are also for collectors.

[@carlosmcse]

Well… this video has been deleted from the Leica forum and I’ve been banned for saying Thorsten is correct in his views on this camera. The reason was “Leica bashing”… 😅 The channel The F/Stops Here posted a video 2 days ago. He is on his 3rd Leica M11, because of bricking and locking up, now his third one can’t meter because the shutter doesn’t open when he turns the camera on (worked for about 3 months). Ah well…. It all comes back to the complications. This is why I like the M10 family. I think it’s the right balance of modern and classic. I don’t really need more.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Well, the l-camera-forum is more protective of Leica than they would be themselves if they were the ones running it. I did take a note that in the spirit of protecting whoever they feel they are protecting they sacrificed the reason to have a forum; to communicate viewpoints and share experiences. Moving on ... Personally, freeze and other things is not my main concern. There are firmware glitches that skips a photo now and then, once in a while it overexposes, wrong Kelvin or shutter speed info in EXIF, etc. Small problems. The center of my concern is the image quality and how well it works as a tool in daily use (simplicity). I did see the video kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooSUfH6pZrujqbs about his third defect M11. Impressive, but I haven't had anyone in my workshops or circles who reported problems like that, so I frankly think it is very few cases; and people somehow go straight to forums and youtube once it happens (which I think gives an unbalanced view, not getting into if they have the right to do so). Send me an mail at [e-mail]

[@carlosmcse]

@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard Hopefully they are just isolated incidents and Leica will fix these issues. I agree on the daily use of the rangefinder M camera. This is what drove me to the M10R instead. Classic and simple. That’s really my main gripe with the M11. But the M11 needs to exist. As you pointed out it is a business after all.

[@robmcd]

I’d like to see Panasonic release an appropriately priced M body with the new 24 megapixel sensor. I don’t really care for these cameras but I’m unwilling to even try one as I don’t see the value.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

I used the Pansonic S1R for six months as a preview to the Leica SL2 and I am always baffled that camera producers just cant make it simple. I think anyone could make an M body, but they just can't stop adding buttons and features. And that is the real value you pay extra for with Leica; simplicity and build quality.

[@rumporridge1]

@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaardlove the simplicity of my SL2 but I tell yah I really appreciate the sensor in that S1R. Don’t really see me selling it anytime soon.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

@@rumporridge1 I sort of agree. I overall didn't like the S1R ... but then when I looked back at my use of it, I used it A LOT for taking perfect indoor daylight-studio photos of products and other. It has a very precise sensor and is quite an impressive tool. Lenses and cameras always should be judged both on how they feel, and what the outcome is. I mention it in the video as well. Ideally, they feel great and make great photos. But it is true, the S1R was a true friend in the sense that you always knew it would deliver.

[@rumporridge1]

@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard couldn’t agree more. Very pleased with the outcome but yes the camera design has a million buttons / options lol. Very quirky design, however it’s built like a tank. Great videos as usual my friend. Best wishes in 2023.

[@David-pu6hx]

Wow what a great video!!! so much covered in a review of a camera which more a good review of how and why we photograph to the current state of AI. The current AI is exactly like you said. A computer regurgitating BS from the internet. A lot of ground covered. I will have to watch it a few times no for it all to sink in. Thanks!

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Thank you 🙂

[@pioni2]

I think the choice of using a Sony sensor has ruined it. I ditched Sony when I noticed that I was always battling to get decent colour, my grey cat was brown etc. With a M9 I could get the colours as I see them, the grey concrete etc. EDIT: I'm not expecting 100% truthful colours, I'm expecting result that I don't have to edit every single time to get an usable image. The idea of having to use colour and wb cards every time does not sound fun at all. To me the best looking Leica SOOF is the M10 or M10R, neither of which I actually have.

[@thedarkslide]

My M10 never freezes on me.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

Leica M10 is the most stable digital rangefinder so far.

[@thedarkslide]

@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard I truly believe the M10 will grow into something of a digital equivalence to the M6 on the used Leica camera market. I have been using my M10 for almost two years now and I can't really bring myself to replacing it with an M10R or M11. I love the bottom plate, I love the center weighted meter, for me it's just the essence of what an M should be.

[@stefanmelzer9943]

Bokeh is a Japanese word 暈け . It doesn't have anything to do with wine. It means blur, lack of focus or unsharpness.

[@tanke1818]

I think if you are a professional, the potential of a camera freezing in a crucial time is pretty scary

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

That is right.

[@elderinmoi1571]

I also experienced the same thing with color. Most images have a pink tone in them and auto wb (in Lightroom for example) does not fix it. That is a big flaw and disappointing for a company with this history. But Oscar Barnack is long dead and people nowadays are half as intelligent as they used to be back in time 😅.

[@walkingmanvideo9455]

For the price category that camera is listed, I would not accept one issue. There is no excuse for electronics failure in a camera with that price.

[@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard]

I think the electronics failure happens now and then for any electronic product.

[@mauriziomauricone]

9K Leica, grayscale white balance card sold seperately… I-lik-a Leica.

[@gregoryrogalsky6937]

Sorry this Leica M11 camera still makes peoples skin looks like plastic. Something about the square pixels and the modern aspherical lenses. I did my best to love the the digital Leica getting a M9 and 240 and even a 246 mono and I just didn't love the experience. Lately Iv been considering getting another Leica Mono and using some old glass. Saying that to me, nothing beats the experience of a Leica M3 and 35 1.4 Summilux and Tri-X. I like what you where saying about making meaningful images. That is what it is all about.