Tolkien HATED Allegory?

My response and breakdown of the popular online idea that Tolkien was anti allegory and therefore should not have his work compared to the real world!
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[@DanielGreeneReviews]

What other author misconceptions would you like to see cleared up here on the channel?

[@junechevalier]

Whenever professors be like "fantasy is dumb" I'm like "and yet you still respect Illiad and Odyssey by Homer or the epic Gilgamesh"

[@JosiahSum1Wallis]

Anyone who says Tolkien and CS Lewis had beef has no clue. even at the lowest point in their friendship (as all friendships have ups and downs) CS Lewis nominated Tolkien for the Nobel prize.

[@altoguy16499]

I've never gotten behind the idea that an author's writing has literally 0 allegory to to it. Human brains just dont work that way. I cant remember what it's called, but I remember learning that no matter what, your life influences the way you see the world and that just inherently will influence your writing as well, intentional or not. If Tolkien was raised with a different religion, then the entire story would probably be wildly different because dear God the first almost 10 chapters of the simirilian were basically "god creates the world, Lucifer becomes satan"

[@ryuukake]

The way I understood it is that allegory as Tolkien means it is nearly always a 1 to 1; Aslan is God, Deep Magic is Christs sacrifice etc... Applicability it could be 3 to 1; You can argue the Catholic understanding of the person of Christ is present in part in Frodo, Gandalf, and Aragorn, but each of them have their own flaws that offset that ideal they represent, making it so they are applicable, but not fully allegorical. or 1 to 3; The One Ring is a Nuclear Weapon (Or arms race), no the One Ring is a manifestation of human vices, no the One Ring is the dangers of the ideals set by rushing into industrialized world. The answers is of course yes, the ring can be seen as all these things and more, because it's applicable and not allegorical in the 1 to 1 sense that Tolkien despised, applicability also means that it can be applied to things that were not present (or commonly spoken of) in Tolkien's time. I doubt these ramblings make any sense. I'm sorry, I'll shut up now

[@bradstev14]

Hey I'm a Ma History student, my research focus is on Medieval Literature (think Beowulf, King Horn, Tristan, Gawain). I've read a good few of Tolkien's essay's, the best of which is undoubtedly 'The Monsters and the Critics'. I mention this essay because it is within this essay that this notion of his distaste for allegory is most distorted by people. Before this landmark essay Beowulf was largely regarded as little more than an Christian/Germanic allegory and was widely utilized for its historical value rather than its artistic and cultural value. In the essay Tolkien masterfully rails against this theory and explains that the poem is in fact a beautiful elegy, and should be taken for the wonderful example of cultural expression that it is. This essay heavily influenced the post-modernist expressionist expansion of academic thought and theory across multiple fields and acted as one of a few works that allowed for a great deal of diversification in study topics. For example, he highlights the important insights that may be gained from the study of monsters within these works rather than dismissing them as window dressing, this has allowed for a great many theories on cultural development nuances born of the monsters we create in these fantastical works. It's a very widely applicable paper and I highly recommend reading it.

[@Tinahgirl83]

In the opening essay to Fellowship, Tolkien states that there is a big difference between applicability and allegory. And there is. He wrote a lot that would be applicable to WW2, as well as to rural English life, and the advancement of technology, but also that would appeal to each person’s sense of home and what’s important. The shire for me doesn’t represent his home, it represents mine, if that makes sense. That doesn’t mean it was allegorical. Allegory is trying to draw direct parallels between things to make a point of some kind. I don’t like being preached at. That’s one reason why some people don’t love Narnia. (I do, for the record. I think they’re amazing.) Thank you for breaking this down properly for the people in the back who can’t get it. I think authorial intent is extremely important, though. Especially in modern literature of all genres, it is SO allegorical and it’s getting really tiresome. Stop telling me what to think. Lol. As for their relationship, they were great friends and had a huge effect on each other’s work, but they did fight and argue, as friends do.

[@CrusaderDan]

I have a hot take about modern professors hating fantasy. A lot of modern professors have a genuine distaste for Tolkien.

[@ThisIsJaysWorld]

Well I was reading, but you had me at "Tolkien"

[@alphabah49]

Allegory done right is actually enjoyable, for instance Animal Farm.

[@sandorsbox]

He was clearly influenced by both WWI and to a lesser extent WWII. It’s not allegorical, but the influence of his life events cannot be ignored.

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

"A lot of authors lie about what their intent was"

[@deusexmaximum8930]

6:03

[@dreammaster2.059]

Daniel needs to do more crazy rants, they're hilarious XD

[@hannahperry8042]

A short defense of CS Lewis: I view him as, first and foremost, a theologian. Works like Mere Christianity, The Screwtape Letters, The Great Divorce, The Abolition of Man, The Four Loves, etc. have all had a HUGE impact on Christian thought. So, it doesn't surprise me that the Chronicles of Narnia is pretty blatantly allegorical in nature.

[@lukecarlson4710]

I also just enjoy reading Tolkien because his words are so well chosen.

[@TheDevler23]

6:10

[@DocHoody]

That’s the beauty of being the reader. No matter the allegory, we can find whatever applicable meaning we want in a story, and are free to ignore any intended message!

[@eliabramirez187]

I took a poetry class, and we were discussing epics (Beowulf, Odyssey etc.). My professor asked if anyone could think of a more modern epic and I responded LOTR. To my surprise he actually agreed with me. 😅😅

[@timpeterjensen2364]

I did quite alot of study into Tolkien, but it is about 20 years ago now. One thing i seem to remember, is that one of his quotes about allegory came when he was asked about Lord of the Rings taking inspiration from WW2, that they had just gone through, and became annoyed and wrote something like this in a replay: its far more likely that is takes inspiration from WW1 which was far more relevant to my life, its not an allegory of WW2.