Trekyards EP242 - V'ger (Part 1)

[@tomdewey9690]

Trivia fact: My dad was an engineer for NASA at the time and designed the REAL vent on the real Voyager that Spock pried off V'ger. It opens and closes depending on if it is facing the sun or not.

[@Jack_Stafford]

Tom Dewey that is extraordinarily cool! You must be very proud that something he did will be seen by millions of people and preserved forever in the motion picture! That in addition to the important work he did for the space programme, I know you're very proud!

[@DarthSathion]

We now have proof, nasa builds fake movie sets.

[@jhnshwrth15]

Theatrical version it was 82 AUs, Directors Cut was 2 AUs as it was simple to cut the eighty part of the line out.

[@jaysus620]

Also, there's dialogue from Uhura that she's getting info from Starfleet that the cloud was dissipating as it approached Earth, so it might have been an unnecessary retcon - it could have been 82 AU's at the time Epsilon IX was tracking it and it might have gotten down to 2 AU's by the time it reached our solar system.

[@ralphsexton8531]

John Ashworth That's what I thought I had remembered. Glad someone could confirm that. Thanks!

[@jasonbarkman]

Glad they fixed it, 82 AUs was dumb

[@jasongreenwood8080]

Also, in terms of ship scale (discussed early on), the Enterprise was approaching the cloud at warp speed initially (see the lit inboard grills on the warp nacelles. Seeing the Enterprise approach on both of the tactical schematics makes a lot more sense too, if you consider the Enterprise moving at warp

[@rfhero71]

NO! The Power Field was 82 AU's. That's what the guy on the Space Station said. The Ship V'Ger was 2 AU's.

[@CaminoAir]

Thanks again, guys. It hadn't even occurred to me that you'd discuss V'Ger at any point in time, but I'm very glad to see you are.

[@JimMcCray]

Wow, you're right, this sucker DOES look A LOT like that Borg ship in ST:O I definitely like it a lot.

[@QPLAH1]

The new screens held!

[@Jack_Stafford]

Quantum Oh my!

[@The_Warrior526]

One of the biggest things about TMP was the sense of mystery. Made it really awesome.

[@mikedignum1868]

Saw it at the cinema when it first came out in the UK..Place was filled with ST Fans and the cheering throughout the film was tremendous..Watching it a few years later on VHS i found it dragged on a bit once they entered the V'Ger ship. Once again the return of the crew made this.

[@Jack_Stafford]

Michael Dignum I would have loved to have seen this at the cinema! Truly a big screen experience that can't be replicated on a television. My first big screen was The Wrath of Khan and that was great of course but this movie especially lends itself so much to the majesty of widescreen cinema projection. Nothing can compare to seeing a film like that with other fans! What a great experience that must have been.

[@joshuamadelung8525]

Great insight into vger. I too agree the probe is more or less digitizing everything.

[@Allegheny500]

Stuart you mentioned owning the VHS version, on my copy the part where Kirk suits up to retrieve Spock as he exits the imaging chamber there is a brief shot of him standing in the open airlock and the camera pans back to reveal .... he is standing on a set.... they forgot to add the matt painting into the shot. It's very fast and if you were focusing on Kirk you probably missed it in the theaters but its there.

[@jaysus620]

There was a full-length miniature being constructed during filming (at least a miniature of the portion the Enterprise flies over at "500 - METERS?!" - I don't now if it was ever finished ...) that was large and complex enough that while they were shooting at one end, the art department was still building the other end.

[@watcherzero5256]

I always thought of it like a transporter and memory storage not a weapon, it wasn't seeking to destroy ships just to study them.

[@montedoran9305]

I've always thought that V'ger was TMP version of the Doomsday machine/Nomad episode combined.

[@briankruse3584]

I believe one AU is the distance of the Earth's orbit to Sol.

[@Boxkerp]

Not quite, an Astronomical Unit is the average distance between the earth and the sun.

[@waynecharlton3081]

For what it's worth, that distance (one [1] AU) is ninety three million (93,000,000.00) miles. Ergo, the V'GER cloud (in the Director's Cut revised estimate of 2 AU's) totals one hundred eighty-six million (186,000,000.00) miles in diameter, or slightly under the average diameter of the Asteroid Belt's orbit at it's closest point to the sun at 2.3 AU (or two hundred thirteen million, nine hundred thousand [213,900,000.00.] miles). If one calculates the V'GER cloud's diameter via the "82 AU's" stated in the original theatrical cut of the film, that measurement increases to seven billion, six hundred twenty-six million (7,626,000,000.00) miles, which is roughly equivalent to/slightly larger than the average orbital diameter of the dwarf planet Pluto, which ranges from 29.7 AU (or, two billion, seven hundred sixty-two million, one hundred thousand [2,762,100,000.00] miles) from the Sun at perihelion (that distance being from within the orbit of Neptune, which measures 30.1 AU [or two billion, seven hundred ninety-nine million, three hundred thousand {2,799,300,000.00} miles] to 49.5 AU [or four billion, six hundred three million, five hundred thousand {4,603,500,000.00} miles at aphelion). Any of these distances are ungraspable by the human mind and are expressible only through the use of numbers via mathematics.

[@TheCastellan]

1:32...the best film, in my opinion.

[@sciguyjeff]

Guys you missed an easy one here. V'Ger was the future version of the Master Control program and every enemy was de-rezzed. Kirk was really the physical form of TRON

[@Jack_Stafford]

I was always interested in the parallels between the Earth probes corrupted by alien technology, V'ger and Nomad both wanting to return to their creator. Having them meet would be interesting, one wanted to digitise and preserve objects and beings including their errors and the other destroying and sanitising all imperfection.

[@lelandframe6927]

In the Director's Cut, the V'Ger cloud was only 2 A.U.'s in diameter. (An A.U. being 93 million miles--the distance from the Earth to the Sun.) The V'Ger cloud in the original ST-TMP was EIGHTY-TWO A.U.'s in diameter. That's DAMN big! As for V'Ger itself, in the novelization, it's twice the size of Manhattan Island!

[@TheCastellan]

I don't go with the Borg relations with V'ger. I prefer the mysterious, unseen world of living machines. Borg are too primitive compared to V'ger.

[@sleipnirodin2881]

Aggreed!

[@jamiebraswell5520]

The Borg connection is stupid and NEVER should have been thought up. Luckily, it stayed in the lame books and has never been on screen.

[@ChimpingBulldog]

V'ger is far too powerful and any connection with the borg makes the trek universe smaller. I dont understand that mentality of wanting everything to be connected.

[@L1z43vr]

@@ChimpingBulldog I think I understand. Mostly it's a sense of completion, that ties everything together. Like when you put the final piece in a puzzle. Though I agree that it makes the Trek universe smaller, I think it also makes it kinda go on Q's favour of the argument in Deja Q (I think that was the name of the episode the Borgs first appeared) about Humans not being ready. The Original Enterprise finds a "Borg" ship, Starfleet sees the report and doesn't pay much mind to it because they had limited knowledge on Vger. Years later, the Enterprise-D finds the Borg and then a lot of stuff happens and a lot of the same situation happens. Besides, you gotta admit, the walls in Vger's "control room" do kinda looks like Borg technology, except blue instead of green.

[@Tounushi]

Have to say, Star Trek doesn't have enough eldritch abominations. Even technological ones. V'ger is definitely very eldritch, as the Whale Probe is as well.

[@Tankofdarkness]

It remembered the Klingons to death

[@dswynne]

I believe that there is a line from Sulu about the Enterprise have new shields, which is why the ship survived the first hit. Someone, I believe Scotty, stated that they would not survive a second one.

[@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701]

Correct

[@OpenMawProductions]

6:05 Er... It was, though. The V'ger model was fecking huge. They were still building on it as they were shooting it, they hid that with curtains. It was a "massive miniature." As far as the V'ger/Borg connection, no. Please no.

[@badhippo]

The front is a combined bussard ram-scoop and sensory interface, the 6 pylons are the housings for the 6 dark-energy reactors that powers V'Ger, and the stern portion is the remains of the planet/space coupling from when it was sent from the AI world back home. Everything else is data storage modules, power conduits, galactic logic-gates, and the mass-conversion/computation interface. Basically, it's a giant sized USB flash drive.

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

Just rewatched TMP here's a excellent question when did the Enterprise shut down it's warp drive on approach to V'ger?

[@k1productions87]

To my knowledge, the saucer sep concept was not for the movie, but was a concept intended for Star Trek Phase II which never came into realization.

[@tarboss4]

I have a vhs release the line reads "....The cloud measures......My god.....Over 82 AU's in diameter....." In the dvd directer's cut, they chaged it to 2 AU's

[@philipingram1563]

great Briefing guys and a wealth of info....

[@fairview3725]

Speaking of the digital storage idea, isn't there a line of dialogue between Decker and Illia Probe that says that the Enterprise and the "carbon based units" will be stored like that?

[@waynecharlton3081]

*Ilia* "When my examination is complete, all carbon units will be reduced to data patterns."

[@parkerknowsbest1]

Directors cut is magnificent. Great intelligent exploration scifi. Wish it was in 1080p

[@eparhas9162]

yeah, i think i remember 82 AUs also. Which Is HUGE!

[@RobertBontrager]

Was this V'ger storyline originally created for the Phase2 TV series and then they just adapted it for the big screen?

[@lelandframe6927]

Actually, the story goes further back than that! It was originally a proposed episode for Gene Roddenberry's aborted 1972 series, GENESIS II! (The pilot is available on KZbin--look for it.) The episode was to have been titled "Robot's Return", and was obviously inspired by "The Changeling".

[@ChimpingBulldog]

It was to be the pilot episode for phase 2, called 'in thy image'

[@tjf7101]

Two comments on the shields of the Enterprise. It was mentioned that they were more powerful. Also, as I recall, Vger fired on Enterprise with her shields down. While shields were raised in time, perhaps Vger used a torpedo of a leaser energy level than it did with the Klingins. Just some thoughts

[@thribs]

The Borg thing is in the ShatnerVerse novels as well.

[@grimmfandango832]

The prototype version looks like like the STO Borg cylindrical ships you fight.

[@Ebeneezergoode1]

Fesarius was huge too. Also regarding Enterprise shields vs the Klingons, they were chucking torpedoes at it. With Enterprise not showing the same belligerence it may have pulled it's punches. And not transporter. Replicator. ;)

[@Deth1977]

it couldn't have been the borg because the borg were biomechanical. V'ger was given technology that goes far beyond anything the borg has. V'ger refers to the crew as an infestation of carbon units. the borg would not see crew as this they would see the crew as exploitable resources that need to be upgraded towards mechanical perfection. the tech was well beyond anything the borg had even the futuristic borg.

[@watcherzero5256]

One of Shatners Star Trek novels features it and attributes it to the Borg.

[@MrSheckstr]

Watcher Zero yeah well given that we are always lectured that Books are not canon,and quite frankly the Shatnerverse narrative should be the LAST series of books to be considered canon. Pretty much the objective of those books are to somehow Tie everything back to his character no matter how absurd

[@martinbaxter6414]

steven heckert But... this... is... SHATNERWE'RETALKING... about -

[@enterprise-h312]

I believe that either the movie or the novel states that V’Ger could extinguish Sol.

[@ChimpingBulldog]

Havent read that that but Asimov said It's power output was equivalent to sol's rotational energy which is far greater than the luminous output.

[@JohnSmith-uu4kn]

I like Shattner's version of V'ger going back in time and creating or helping to develop modern day borg. Sounds like a Caretaker creation gone bad due to their lack of knowledge.

[@jankjason]

4:49 The Borg ship in the Borg Red Alert of STO looks very similar to that design.

[@jayrodmurderface]

Avoozl yes, it seems that on its journey back, it encountered the Borg.

[@ilejovcevski79]

If memory serves (not sure if it was the movie or the novelization), the machines gave Voyager the ship (or rather mounted it in) and then as time passed and Voyager acquired more and more knowledge, it became more and more powerful (though not sure if it got bigger). In the end it was it was on the verge of becoming a higher dimensional being, probably something like a Q.

[@petero.7487]

As for the scan being fatal, it did say Ilia (that unit) no longer functions...

[@martinbaxter6414]

Not buying the V'ger/Borg connection for a second. If so, then why don't the present-day Borg have super-plasma bombs and tech to de-rezz opposing ships?

[@PatriciaCross]

TMP came out at a time when Sci Fi cared about using real science terms; but did not care about what they meant. This is basically the same reason why Parsec was misused in Star Wars and needed an in universe explanation. This is a time when Galaxy and Solar System were often used interchangeably and it seemed reasonable for the moon to get knocked of orbit by an explosion and travel between star systems on its own inertia on a weekly basis. They picked AU because it sounded big; but did not actually look up what the size actually worked out to be. The Director's Cut definitely fixed this with the line being dubbed over.

[@PotholesInMyLawn]

My Fav Movie!!

[@petero.7487]

Actually Star Trek I and Star Trek IV had a lot in common: Both involved huge gigantic vessels which were looking for something on earth and humans didn't count

[@sirbobbyuk]

The Klingon ships took a number of hits before their shields failed and not just the one hit

[@eaglet382]

Ilia became a drone. She was assimilated. Spock even describes her as a "mechanism."

[@ChimpingBulldog]

Nope. She was scanned, destroyed then replicated using molecular machinery. No assimilation took place

[@rikuurufu5534]

And those plasma bolts, while initially preceived as weapons turned out to actually be for communications and holographic imaging. Not a "reverse transporter" in the latter case, so much as a "reverse Replicator" combined with a holodeck It just happened to be too powerful for most ships to survive.

[@noneuno53]

the interior ship remember me of the planet eatters part of space, maybe vger used one to make its self bigger than a probe.

[@noneuno53]

p.s. is vger the 1st Q ?? :)

[@murphsmodels8853]

I remember reading somewhere that Voyager 6 encountered the Borg, and for some reason. they decided to build it a new ship so it could return to it's home planet, while gathering new information along the way.

[@samronin1141]

Apparently the Voth Fortress ship in Star Trek Online and I think it was shown in the Voyager episode is 150Km long.

[@ChimpingBulldog]

No it's closer to 15km.

[@KEVMAN7987]

12th power energy readings.

[@TheSignOfZeta]

Kevin Gomolchak - Sulu - "Twelfth power?" Captain Decker - "Thousands of starships couldn't generate that much power!"

[@ChimpingBulldog]

A triliion Enterprises.

[@jamiebraswell5520]

Where are you getting 12 AUs from? In the theatrical cut, it was 82 AUs in diameter, and in the Director's Cut, it was down-scaled to 2 AU's in Diameter.

[@RaikenXion]

I luvd the idea behind V'ger, it was true sci fi, it was intriguing everyone bashes on TMP, yeh it was slow paced, yeh there wasnt any "true villain" of the movie. Yeh they spent too much time doing the reunion thing but the idea behind V'ger was awesome and I dont just mean the whole Borg thing. The idea that we could send out satellites and they be picked up by some alien-intelligence or beings and evolve from it is very intriguing but its also very plausible too. And stop thinking of it in-terms of "ships"! Think of it as kind of like a A.I cloud, or like Moyer from FarScape, or yes a "space whale" is good. The trouble with humans is they also think small-minded when it comes to space. The furthest they can think of is submarines in space, also why is it any "Alien" beings that humans come into contact in any sci fi always have to be roughly the same size as humans, and especially where star trek is concerned, ALWAYS "Humanoid" and bipedal lol.

[@donaldhill3823]

This is the most TOS of all the Movies and one of the best written and produced. When I first saw the Borg I thought that they could tie them back to VGer and Nomad since Decker merged with VGer. We may not have seen the full attack on the Klingon's. As I have said with Battles we often see the last hit when the ship blows up but have missed all the other hits making it look like the ships defenses meant nothing. We see the digital forms of the other ships inside. If the mother ship is destroyed the digital copies of the other ships would be erased. ...... I do hope sometimes that your reference to color of energy and ships being tied to culture is just sarcasm ........ Even when Culture do adopt colors for identity they will change them over time.

[@pedrolucan4006]

I'm fond of the explanation from star trek legacy that V'ger was responsible for the borg but they forgot that the borg have been around for about a thousand years so... yeah.

[@ChimpingBulldog]

Thousands of centuries, according to Guinan.

[@josiahclinch6219]

was in the prime timeline was V'GER launch by a Saturn 1b?

[@jamiebraswell5520]

Where do you get 12 AUs as the cloud size? In the original film, they clearly say 82 AUs, but in the Director's Cut it was changed to 2 AUs. Maybe you are confusing it with the cloud registering 12th power, because at no point is the size of the cloud stated to be 12 AUs.

[@nathand.9969]

It's the Voyager 6+! By Apple?

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

The cloud surrounding V'ger was explained as ionizing the free hydrogen and other atoms.

[@daleflannery7667]

Here's one thing the Phantom what happened to Decker and Ilia did they blow up with the V ger space craft it's like they just disappeared

[@nightwingnum1226]

If V'ger Created the Borg how could the Borg from the 24th century contact the Borg of the 21st century in First Contact or the ones in the 22nd century in Enterprise?

[@rikuurufu5534]

I don't know where you're getting this 12AU figure. The two versions I'm familiar with are the theatrical release, in which it was 82AU in diameter, and the later releases, they literally just cut out the "2" and made it 8AU. I admit, I may be misremembering. Mandela effect and all that..

[@josiahclinch6219]

Fallow-up. The Original NASA Plan for the Voyager and Vikings Probes, they where to be launch on the Saturn 1B Centaur Rocket. Due to the end of Apollo. they where moved to the Titian 3C instead.

[@AdhamOhm]

I always found it funny how Spock has a theory that the cloud might be a power field generated by a ship in the center of it and everybody acts shocked... but in the theatrical version of the movie, the Klingons already knew this fact when they sent a message back to the Klingon High Command and Starfleet's comm station intercepted and translated it... "Intruder unidentified. Believe luminescent cloud to be enormous power field surrounding alien vessel. Size and description unknown; our sensor scans unable to penetrate. Imperial Klingon Cruiser Amar continuing to attack." The Director's Edition removes this bit from the movie because it obviously spoils the surprise that there's a massive ship inside the cloud.

[@uwemarder3945]

Maybe the Cylons build V'ger and hoped it would destroy the 13th colony (Earth) for them. It would connect Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica (Original Series where the Cylons were still mighty).

[@ChimpingBulldog]

Cylons were nowhere near V'ger's power level. Cylons would probably think of V'ger as their god.

[@Ebeneezergoode1]

Blue phaser/orange phaser! The Borg might have been blue once.

[@ChimpingBulldog]

I think V'ger was built by the exocomps after they went through a wormhole and ended up in the delta quadrant and 1000 years in the past.

[@Boxkerp]

It's converting matter into digital information. It didn't explode.

[@timothydutton4249]

Personally, I hate the retcons that link V'Ger to the Borg. I rather doubt there was any such link in the scriptwriters' minds when they introduced us to the Borg Collective. It's just that the fans made the link and then everyone else capitalised on the fan theory.

[@samronin1141]

Star Trek Legacy actually has it as their canon storyline. But yeah it was a poorly received game and game canon is rarely taken as fully endorsed. But also interesting that the forward half of it is the same as the Borg Unimatrix Command ship as seen in Star Trek Online.

[@RA-VEN8]

You & Captain Logan should do a Star Trek Segment together. :)

[@meyaenyo2593]

Didn't in the movie Spoke said it had a crew 10s of thousands Bones joked back "A crew of 10, 10 miles high?

[@wargodsix]

The beginnings of the Borg

[@ChimpingBulldog]

Nope. Borg are much older than vger and vger is far more powerful.

[@simonwillis1529]

I think v ger itself I kinda like it was 82 au in size I read once one if it’s inner chambers could fit the earth inside easy

[@240ups]

Decker/Ilia/V'ger Newborn would not have allowed the attack on the Enterprise. That entity intervening would have been logical and an interesting wrap up with a near destruction of the Enterprise save. -And with a wink of a Deltan's sexy eye the Klingons and every other assimilated space craft could be sent back to where they were found....afterwards... A communication from Decker/Ilia/V'ger, affirming the promise and gratitude towards the human race and more personally a nod to Spock and his Vulcan Lineage for his efforts and sacrifice to seek out contact would have been even more poignant. .....Better ending and you still get a Klingon vs Federation Battle too.

[@joshuapacella007]

Trekyards day! No longer Wednesday...

[@Jack_Stafford]

Joshua Pacella So say we all! I've been pumped all day about the Sir Patrick Stewart video and was happily surprised by this video posting as well! Enjoy the rest of your Trekyards day! :)

[@Jackrabbit_Slim]

A lot of it's mass is made up of shields and Nebula like clouds. I think it's that way to cause confusion for enemy ships on approach. If an enemy could even get that close to a vessel with that kind of weaponry...

[@omega311888]

not 12 au.... it was 82 au when sulu measured its size....

[@saintwildfirerecords]

Speaking on Connie shields being stronger then the klingon k'tinga, we see from the perspective of the star base in that scene, that the klingon ships took at least one hit as well, while the star base crew watch on their screens. Seems about equal

[@cadsux]

To V'Ger, carbon units infested enterprise, like insects or micro-organisms. Scientists study the small, seemingly insignificant, right? So it makes sense that V'Ger would digitize even the Klingon ships/crew, and Epsilon 9. In the movie novelization, Gene Roddenberry sized the Enterpise to the V'Ger ship as being analogous to a mosquito to the Enterprise.

[@MrRandomcommentguy]

You DO get to see the whole V'ger ship in the theatrical cut of the movie, you just never see the ship all at once from a distance, but you can see all the features on the concept art and the fan-made schematic on the various closeup sections of the V'Ger model used in the movie.

[@geneiwanskijr5957]

I'm personally not bothered by the fact that we don't see V'GER in its entirety in the movie or the directors cut movie. Like so many horror films from years ago when they did not have the budgets or the expertise to make things visually scary, they relied on you filling in the non-visual parts with your own imagination.

[@craigstafford6360]

Its the start of the borg running on windows 10.

[@michaelmooney3369]

82 AU is 7,626,000,000 miles I don't think that is even outside the solar system.

[@KevinNott]

I suppose that would depend on your definition of solar system. Pluto orbits between a perihelion of 30ish and aphelion of 50ish AU. Sedna certainly orbits outside of 82 though.

[@michaelmooney3369]

so it is outside the solar system, I was thinking it was larger than that guess not.

[@waynecharlton3081]

For what it's worth, that distance (one [1] AU) is ninety three million (93,000,000.00) miles. Ergo, the V'GER cloud (in the Director's Cut revised estimate of 2 AU's) totals one hundred eighty-six million (186,000,000.00) miles in diameter, or slightly under the average diameter of the Asteroid Belt's orbit at it's closest point to the sun at 2.3 AU (or two hundred thirteen million, nine hundred thousand [213,900,000.00.] miles). If one calculates the V'GER cloud's diameter via the "82 AU's" stated in the original theatrical cut of the film, that measurement increases to seven billion, six hundred twenty-six million (7,626,000,000.00) miles, which is roughly equivalent to/slightly larger than the average orbital diameter of the dwarf planet Pluto, which ranges from 29.7 AU (or, two billion, seven hundred sixty-two million, one hundred thousand [2,762,100,000.00] miles) from the Sun at perihelion (that distance being from within the orbit of Neptune, which measures 30.1 AU [or two billion, seven hundred ninety-nine million, three hundred thousand {2,799,300,000.00} miles] to 49.5 AU [or four billion, six hundred three million, five hundred thousand {4,603,500,000.00} miles at aphelion).

[@TDBoedy]

As to the ludicrous size - well yes any of those sizes is ridiculous for what was going on. Frankly the enterprise should have been screwed up by the enormous gravity well it would have generated.

[@derpytwerpgameryt4955]

first...i dont know what it this vid is gonna be like but im sure its good as usual

[@johnwrath333]

Hey fellas, enjoy the channel ! Any chance you might do Red Dwarf someday ?

[@starfox1340]

I am pretty sure they have. Look at the Fleetyards episodes.

[@wierdalien1]

Star Fox they did starbug not the petite rouge one itself

[@starfox1340]

Oh ok... My mistake :)

[@davvader]

Borg would come to earth if they found voyager, could not be borg. Curse you STO There s a video that pins the Borg down very nicely, I believe that video.

[@Jeffers1960]

the first picture was tooooo organic compared to what you can see in the movie, the comparison chart gave a better idea. Willyou be talking to Syd Mead?

[@michaelmooney3369]

pinned, tweeted, G+ed and face booked.

[@grimmfandango832]

the one circa 6 mins in to be clear

[@wierdalien1]

Dont be mean to poor TMP.

[@craighilton8526]

oh how the young love to teach.....or try to.

[@melina001a]

ST:TMP not the worst Trek film that 'honor' falls to ST:The Final Frontier (STV)

[@MrRandomcommentguy]

The Motion Picture is the best Star Trek movie - NOT the so-called "director's" edition hack job, the flawed theatrical release version is the best. I actually can't understand why anyone thinks it isn't the best star Trek production of any kind, ever.

[@timothydutton4249]

To be honest as a youngster I thought that The Motion Picture was good, but compared to other Trek Films, it did not hold up over time. It spent far too long dazzling us with special effects, and the plot itself was flimsy and essentially very similar to the TOS episode The Changeling. The Wrath of Khan, on the other hand does give me chills every time I watch it. The interplay between Kirk and Khan is awesome, and Spock's death gets me every time. TMP is not the worst trek film mind you, but it definitely is not the best.

[@wraithleader2906]

Pluto is 29.7 Au from the sun........

[@wraithleader2906]

facebook.com/bobby.donald.31/posts/1351595838235288 The most distant object in the solar system

[@TimelessMomentsLtd]

You may want to check out this foundry mission on V'Ger, it's got good reviews so far. Here's a trailer. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gofKqWiIi7GIptU

[@timothypage252]

How did anyone MISS THE SYSTEM-SIZED MOVING OBJECT NEAR EARTH!?!?!? The Federation has the death penalty just for situations like this...the dudes manning the sensors must have been undeserving of life, they were that monumentally inept. Did they sit a blind and deaf person (there HAD to be alarms going off all over) in front of the console and simply forget to rig it for braille?

[@TheBlackTrekker]

12 AU IS 1,116,000,000 MILES

[@Revan2574]

Unless the black/worm hole sent the Voyager 6 back in time over 500 years then it did NOT create the Borg. Voyager season 6 episode 7 Dragon's Teeth introduce the Vaadwaur who have been in stasis since the 15th century and the lead Vaadwaur Gedrin says that the Borg had only assimilated a handful of star systems before he went into stasis. So baring time travel V'ger did NOT make the Borg.

[@daleflannery7667]

First of all if you watch Star Trek the motion picture the battle with the Klingons with Leisure it did last lot longer sing it from the station and you can see the click on it being hit by something look it only took two shots the energy bolts that almost destroyed the Enterprise the Enterprise took one shot when the second one was coming Scotty said they cannot withstand another attack I'm guessing the Klingons got shot once already then we went back to the Klingon battle with v'ger and the Klingon ships probably already got all three hit once with an energy Bolt the second one as alia probe stated transferred Klingon ships to data patterns. If you watch later on in the movie Ilia claims the Vedra was planning to do this to the Enterprise as well as the carbon base life forms a board but she wanted to understand the carbon base like forms first this is what she told Decker in the recreation deck