Did Kyle Dubas overplay his hand? | OverDrive

Bryan Hayes, Jeff O’Neill and Jamie McLennan are joined by TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson and they debate whether Kyle Dubas might have overplayed his hand during contract negotiations and if that is what ultimately led to his dismissal.

[@davesway1170]

Dubas got his ass kicked by the core 4's agents, then he got his ass kicked trying to use the same tactic those agents used on him. Glad he's gone, now get Marner out and get a couple men in that locker room to move the team to a new direction

[@jlove8445]

Spot on

[@theadventuresofjimmycrapol8827]

no wonder #34, #88 and #16 got those contracts... if that's how Dubas negotiates.... yikes!

[@pjpredhomme7699]

EXACTLY !

[@EnglishFuture-xg1gw]

LMFAO😂😂😂😂😂

[@EnglishFuture-xg1gw]

cudda told ya dat in da nylander 'negotiation'

[@koola998]

What do you mean ?

[@koola998]

To be honnest bro. Really think Matthew and Marner want to win. All tho they really love their money💵!!!!!. But i think those elimination does hurt them. If you want some one who dont wanna to win. PATIRICK LAINE AND JHONY Gaudreau is a perfect exemple.

[@Listman11]

Why are people talking like he’s some coveted commodity? He’s a GM who couldn’t win a playoff series. He paid 4 forwards half his cap when everyone knows you need a stud defenseman and an elite goalie.

[@clockradio989]

Did everyone forget the Shanaplan?

[@NotExplicable]

@@clockradio989 Tavares was the shiny toy that put a wrench in everything.

[@pjpredhomme7699]

When Dubas went on that press conference and said - I am not sure if I want to be TML GM - he left Shanahan little choice - Who does that publicly ? I am disappointed and surprised that was not a very shrewd move . He is not as sharp as they always say he is - I'm sorry that was complete bonehead move - if he actually wanted the job .

[@Dale-jr7oj]

Of course he’s not sharp. He overpayed soft as shit players handcuffing the team

[@jetsrno1]

Dubas wanted the job under his terms or not at all. Now he can take the GM position in Pittsburgh.

[@craigharrison5406]

@@jetsrno1 Pittsburgh players must be salivating thinking about the massive overpays on their next contracts

[@mannyo2909]

Mandate for new GM? Find players with testicular fortitude!

[@artystaar]

Kyle Dumbass really botched this contract negotiation, just like with the core 4!!!!

[@waldmarwolchuk9483]

100% right

[@boogyjuggy]

mmm....maybe

[@captnkirk6180]

Shanny is definetly thinking Quenville now.

[@boogyjuggy]

please, no

[@peterpeterson5550]

Quenneville was banned by the league from working in the NHL in any position

[@captnkirk6180]

@@peterpeterson5550 he's having a meeting with Bettman

[@independentmind7782]

Dubas overplayed his hand when he signed Tavares. That contract ensured the Leafs would never win anything.

[@byrd5163]

I agree

[@riobabic8960]

So Dubas says it’s been a very difficult year for his family. I guess his wife has at least one maid. She probAbly goes to the spa every week. She gets her thousand dollar hair job. Then there’s a guy with three kids and works shift work for 20 dollars an hour ! I know which family has the stress !

[@annieclifford9337]

Dubas Out is a Blessing in disguise

[@rakketz5976]

I wonder if Dubas knew the chances of resigning any of the big 3 were slim to none, and that his chances of being successful in Toronto were worse than now.

[@clockradio989]

If they all resigned Toronto would have cap space for a defence.

[@jasonmurray8899]

The Leafs already had a ton of work to do in a short period of time. Now they need a GM and coaches. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[@jasonmurray8899]

@Out Side they will be when the new GM comes in.

[@tap585grad706]

Get rid of the Spoiled Core Four!

[@JDI85]

Dubas thought he had the leafs in a position where they would have to accept his demands. He was wrong.

[@brianbenson3669]

Dub-ass got greedy and screwed himself out of one of the best jobs in the NHL! And a new GM will have a boatload less attachment to the Core4 ... making a shakeup / big trade easier.

[@boogyjuggy]

i hope we get to see what really happened.....Kyle?

[@jasonbrowning6034]

Gallant or Federov for coach.

[@michaelhutz405]

Not sure if it was money. MLG has gobs of it. May have been term. But I suspect Kyle wanted 100% authority to do his job and Shanny said Nope. Kyle may have wanted to go in a different direction, keep this guy, trade that guy, and Shanny didn't agree.

[@humanbeing2420]

I'd speculate that Shanahan's view of the situation changed in response to Dubas suddenly trying to extract more from the organization after pretending he was on the fence about returning (and doing so in a very lame and unconvincing fashion). He was annoyed so deeply that he said "You know what? Screw it. We're hiring someone else."

[@michaelburke754]

That's exactly what happened he totally disrespected Brendan the guy who put his neck on the line to get him the position total slap in the face.

[@jlove8445]

Plus Shanny had to put the Kybosh on a trade for Fleury and Hagel in exchange for Knies, Niemela and two more 1st round draft picks! I don’t think Shanny was sad to see him go

[@mreppen1]

Wow, this is really interesting.

[@paulbarrett6910]

..also, why does a GM need an agent? Need a better negotiator? Wtf?

[@PJJTremblay]

Who knew the hand wringing after a failed playoffs would be about GM --- not players -- so Matthews, Marner, Nylander etc getting a free pass ... they should be getting crucified

[@jetsrno1]

Now Shanahan is left holding the bag. The Shanaplan is on life support.

[@captnkirk6180]

Kyle waivered, he trembled in the wind. Shanny didn't vibe with it, didn't feel the committment.

[@royanderson3478]

Brian burke please 😅

[@royanderson3478]

Kyle is Gez Z , good 👍 people, family, and work balance .

[@boogyjuggy]

maybe

[@jasonbrowning6034]

Shanny threw Dubass down on the ground like he did Roy at the Joe. Go Shanny!!

[@woozertoo]

On Mike’s take: it sounds like Kyle wanted a mental health premium to continue to work under the scrutiny of Toronto’s media and fan scrutiny vs taking a bit less elsewhere.

[@sambabisky4742]

Work with the coach to for handling the players.

[@Spike10111]

Definitely

[@normtaylor]

I think Shanny's been bluffing with Dubas since before the beginning of this season ....kinda like how he was bluffing with Craig Janney.

[@wilseph1]

And there we have it!

[@sambabisky4742]

I would put money on Keefe's movement, Dubas wanted to firm up his coach. Shanny said NOPE. I think that because they had a deal it was all good, but then Dubas went home and might have realized, hey what about Sheldon? So he went back. Does anyone think Keefe is going to stay? Not a chance. Maybe to start with for an evaluation with new GM, but I don't think so. Hayes I think you are right for a change, the accountability with the players was a big problem. The beach man?

[@sambabisky4742]

It is hard to believe the talent there could lose with the opportunity they had. So they have to try something new to manage the players.

[@carminelombardi9575]

"While the departure of Dubas may not signify the end of the world, it is important to acknowledge that he may not have been the most accomplished General Manager. The Toronto Maple Leafs, however, possess a formidable team, led by a rookie GM and Coach who are gradually gaining expertise through on-the-job learning. Nonetheless, it appears they may be facing significant challenges beyond their current capabilities. It would be prudent to consider the appointment of an experienced and reliable GM who can introduce necessary adjustments, such as acquiring physically resilient players. These additions would not only safeguard the team's core members and maintain a sense of accountability among opponents but also create the required space on the ice for optimal performance. After all, legends like Gretzky and Guy Lafluer were not known for their physicality, but their success was facilitated by teammates who afforded them the necessary room to showcase their scoring prowess."

[@strawnobi]

Shanahan needs to go too and everyone knows it.

[@jeffer1101]

If I were GM (in a fantasy world), I'd re-sign Matthews and Marner (when his turn is up) to long term deals. Trade Nylander and Tavares to free up cap space ($19M). Re-sign Accari and Schenn (lower cost players are easier to keep). Find role players to fill various holes in your line up. Example, instead of spending $11M on Tavares, they could have spent the same money on Bennett, Verhaeghe (who was already a Leaf) and Gudas. Those three players REALLY change the dynamic of your line up, and the last thing the Leafs really needed was a big dollar forward (they alreay had 2 in the making).

[@Flat10squirrel]

And these are the days of our lives .

[@melissakelly5813]

im sorry but its pretty obvious that mathews,marner and Nylander dont care about the cup and it shows in the playoffs

[@slix96]

Every time I watched the Leafs play the only thing I thought was “there sure are a lot of zeros skating on that ice and nothing to show for it”I guess he will take it as a win that they got to the second round and get out

[@annieclifford9337]

Don't Worry be Happy !

[@doinitforfun888]

Do you think the agent tried to come back with a counter offer, for 5 to 6 million x 5 years that's the question?

[@butcherpete2286]

The balssiest thing Dubas could do is just tweet out his plans for the leafs after this season and then turn his phone off for a week.

[@kashtonari]

Dubas owes a lot to Shannahan. And Shannahan was going to stick with him and pay him well despite the playoff failures and poor contract negotiations. Dubas should have been more grateful and loyal instead of trying to play Shannahan for more money.

[@warrengoatse238]

Wtf is "taking advantage"? Of a massive corporation? And there is no salary cap ffs.

[@wilseph1]

Gonna start saying "new financial package".

[@saramealing740]

its cliche but Tavares really was the dagger in this plan. thats without hindsight. i remember everyone all hyped for him(and i get it) as i was aswell UNTIL we saw the numbers. Even at that time and in his prime he wasnt worth that and nothing against him as a player, hes solid but not a top tier mcdavid, matthews type signing at all. with that said the C should not have went on his jersey right away at least. but yea as frustrating as watching the stars of this team lack in the playoffs, you cannot blame them for their contracts. any one of us would take massive amounts of league high money without proving anything in a second. yes it was on them to play top level in playoffs and it is, this also instills the oh well we lost im still getting my bank mentality that most of us would have and that falls on dubas. funny though hiw many wanted him gone and now that he is alot are now worried. leafs need a no bullshit guy who punishes and disciplines his team ie you dont play to your best of efforts you sit. this will weed out the boys from the men so if guys like matthews doesnt like his buddy dubas gone bc now all the focus will be on him and to be accountable, well then theres the door. hope toronto gets serious and even if it takes a few seasons the silver lining is now it should be clear as day what type of team they need to establish as theres no more grey areas, theyve lost to gritty physical teams who have 2 way forwarda good d and of course goaltending. learn from your mistakes and experience. hate to see them go through all this to just keep signing forward after forward(especially non physical guys) and expect to win. its time to change the narrative and have teams fearing playing you instead of the other way around. good chance here to truly change the narrative with this team.

[@jamesj6597]

Until they get a new set of eyes, they're operating blind going into the draft and the deadline of Matthews no trade clause.

[@blackrocks8413]

did he have a hand? what was his hand...made it past first round? please...

[@wilseph1]

Was playing poker with UNO cards!

[@tryingtobefairandobjective3480]

Does this conversation matter until you hear from Dubas. It is all speculation until then.

[@dantran9962]

We did here from Dubas. On Monday.

[@biglemoncoke4095]

If Shanny cannot hire the guys he wants, he may opt to go for the Jay's model, the Shatkins, that's the route I don't want the see the most. This time, hire someone who had the experience.

[@danielm6770]

Listening to this,,,they don't know what going on,,

[@johnnyp8051]

You dont play games. I like the way its handled. If you play games you're out.

[@ulyssesodysseus2452]

Is queefe next?

[@scarbourgeoisie]

Hopefully the new GM will look across the hockey spectrum for talent and not just sign players who played for the OHL organization he was once associated with. Dubas' loyalty to Son Greyhound alumni was borderline ridiculous.

[@Johnmk24]

In my opinion, Dubas knew anything less than a Finals would cost him. He preemptively played the “family” card to throw ownership & media a curveball. My problem with Dubas & Keefe is no accountability after last 3 years of heartbreaking losses & poor performances.

[@paulbarrett6910]

Dubas ignored the fact that his "model" could not sustain the physicality of playoff hockey. Passey is played for 84 games. Hockey is played in the playoffs. They were continuously punched in the mouth and refused to play that style. That's pretty easy for everyone to see. Why let it fail again?

[@bufford5483]

Leafs may have finally come to their senses & are done over paying losers. Time for some Leaf players to feel the pain.

[@josephpileggi158]

Can we bypass Johnson. Thank heavens Dubas is gone. Keefe should be next. .

[@kashtonari]

Yes

[@cprtrain]

The Leafs FAILED!!!!!!! That is the bottom line. Changes are needed. The curse of Harold Ballard remains with this team.

[@captnkirk6180]

Didnt Babs get 8X8?

[@Dale-jr7oj]

At least Babcock is a big name. He was just unfortunate he had soft as shit players who cried when they got called out

[@captnkirk6180]

@@Dale-jr7oj I don't disagree.

[@drew651]

6x8

[@Landis_Grant]

@@drew651 8 years and $50 M.

[@drew651]

@@Landis_Grant Sorry, 6.25. Better?

[@saifonlawrence2044]

Bye bye Duffus.

[@clockradio989]

Dubas could be a great GM for the Flames.

[@kentgregory3299]

I would love that! Go Oilers!

[@my56chevy]

I think he showed his true colors!! You don't bite the hand that feeds you!!! He tried to take power away from the guy who gave him the opportunity to be an NHL General Manager!!!! I've lost respect for him!!!

[@BearIslandComics]

Please. As if Shanahan hasn’t had a plan B, C, D and beyond for years. That’s his job

[@tedcordina4138]

I am not a big fan of Dubas but it was the wrong time to negotiate a new long term deal with Dubas. If I was the Leafs after the 2nd round loss and if I wanted to keep Dubas I would have given Dubas a six month extension in order to have the proper time and emotional environment to work out a new long term contract with Dubas.

[@Landis_Grant]

I suspect that Shanny offered Dubas a short-term “prove it” contract extension (not 5 years for sure) with a pay raise equal to the inflation rate. Dubas knew that wasn’t enough but he kept Shanny waiting until Thursday afternoon when his agent proposed a ridiculous counteroffer (that the Penguins offered Dubas) that incensed Shanny.

[@richardkulig2104]

Now let’s bring a GM with balls to make moves accountability move Marner,, Mathews if need be

[@johnbuchan6565]

Best five year stretch in franchise history? Lol they won like 5 cups in the 60s.

[@okyouknowwhatever]

these guys are trying to sell a product too

[@annieclifford9337]

This is what The Hockey Guys want in order for the Leafs to win

[@LeeAdrian777]

Guys or gods? 😅

[@alienspace3960]

They still will choke again next year the issues are more than just the GM

[@ryankipnis6230]

O is so fucking sassy lol

[@Dale-jr7oj]

And hayes is such a muppet

[@ChimairaGod]

Shannyn will do it himself. Cost savings

[@wolftrainservicesltd6418]

Babcock for gm NOT

[@LeahDycksports]

Omg Dubas wasn’t treated the same way as Matthews, Nylander and Marner because he’s not a superstar AT ALL!!

[@jessetatum5275]

he wanted out without it looking like he wanted out

[@lucianom.5855]

With all due respect to Kyle and every other suit suit white collared worker out there, I can name dozens of jobs that pay way less and are extremely more stressful. Off the top of my head. Coal miner, firefighter, ice fisherman, red head roofer in the middle of July. Kyle gets to trade players, build a dream team with someone else’s money. 🤓

[@dueyev]

Bill Burr is hilarious!!

[@slystally9874]

Nope. All a ploy. Expect Dubas to be a GM elsewhere

[@angusrankin4709]

O-Dog your Right

[@scottdreger7137]

Yes! No respectable GM would do that . He’s not a hockey guy

[@choocharoo]

With 40 million going to 4 players your not gonna keep that and be successful. They have to move players. Simple. You can’t add a bunch of different 1-2 million dollar players and see the team better. Tavares goes nowhere so the 3 remaining who gets you the most? Nylander naw. Marner 11 million; that can get you a couple assets. Again not enough. Matthews 12.5 million; he is the guy. Gets you a haul for a soft player that can’t perform in the playoffs. Trade marner Mathews and immediately become stronger deeper with more grit. Absolutely will be less offensive but come playoffs will be better for it. Change change change.

[@gilbertayala1069]

Win a cup with D.. That's Laughable... 😆😆😆😆 You'll dreaming...

[@paulhudson4254]

Not sure about Dubas, but the team on the ice sure did. All hype no go! 🤮

[@zeusdormer607]

I think Kulyle Dubas showed immaturity in his presser right off the bat. There's a tendency to show emotions and talk about them but that's for the sheep, the leaders have to be determined, strong and with a plan. Dubas came across as weak and doubting his future. That's a goodbye. He probably didn't mean it but just let his mouth run, he's paying for that stupidity. If he hadn't have said that I'm sure he would still be in a job, I don't think this was a major change in regards contract negotiations.

[@stuartrubenstein6624]

Who ever comes in next as the Gm will not be as bad as Dubass

[@Beachbumbaby]

Might’ve been an attempted power grab on Dubas’ part , Shanahan sniffed it and canned his a$$

[@fatmanjebis]

4 million better then nothing

[@john3659]

tavares bought out or refigured and moved to wing some of the young guys given a real chance and mathews gone he does not compare to a real leader no guts and mediocre concern about losing

[@Ryan-gw1ob]

Dubas honestly thought he was playing PS2 .. 4 great players... 18 ok players.. Cant win in the real world like that!

[@LeeAdrian777]

A millennial over playing their hand?! Naw couldn’t be 😅

[@Ryan-gw1ob]

Not sure who they get .. But an @$!!hole coach will be a good start

[@richardbas7574]

Hopefully these clowns hire Haley Wickenheiser!! Then i never have to watch hockey again!.!

[@BurtTurbo]

Oh please! 🙄

[@theadventuresofjimmycrapol8827]

ffs... you just know thet MLSE is going to make a diversity hire.

[@johnsummerhill8323]

He is looking for an experienced GM. Like George McPhee?

[@clark85]

@@theadventuresofjimmycrapol8827 so only white ppl can do the job?

[@pjpredhomme7699]

@@johnsummerhill8323 why TF would he give up one of the best gigs in the NHL for that ? He is President of Vegas - loves living there . to try and thread the needle on these players and contracts ? he would have to be crazy

[@Mario-qw2fo]

I’ve always,and still do ,wondered what hotdog contributes to this panel? Ever…..besides trying to sound intelligent with his sarcasm….

[@captnkirk6180]

The "core four" are shitting themselves wondering who is going to come in and shake it up and who's moving where. Tons of shit for fans to debate all summer.

[@Landis_Grant]

Not carefree smug John NMC Tavares.

[@snach9700]

Chiarelli and ,Bergevin. get rid the Shanny clown. go leafs

[@eddieharcourt6049]

Dubas can't even make a deal for himself! How the heck are we to believe he can make deals with the players?!! And his mopey woke millennial wavering during the presser was ridiculous. Good riddance.

[@doug7170]

Dubas crying about how hard it is on my family...what a wuss bag. He thought that was gonna get him more money..boy genius. Lol

[@boogyjuggy]

Kyle Dubas is one of the smartest minds in he NHL. This is a big loss. Sorry Shanny, wrong, wrong move. You could have waited a few more days. Now i will say this, Kyle did you wait to get more money? Did your agent make you wait....to try and get more money? If your agent did this, you need to fire him, now...a bad move. I do not like how this ended. You will not find a smarter mind to take over. Sad to see this ending.

[@wisebear2919]

Everyone misread the Dubas press conference monday. He was emotionally raw from the loss (proven by his emotional outbursts during the series). And when you feel isolated and alone against the world in failure, you naturally will manifest that emotion by appealling to your family who will always stand by you and uncondionally "love" you. By envoking his family to give himself emotional cover it revealed that he's self centered and weak. Not a Father or Partner that truly cares for his Family by protecting them. It's been proven today Kyle, as suspected, cares about Kyle first of all. If he does care about his family he could have stepped down and taken a different lower profile Job to spend more quality time with his loved ones. Time to step up Mr. Dubas and be the Father and Husband who protects his family, not your fragile ego!!

[@dh12.]

Whatever you say Dr. Phil.

[@wisebear2919]

@@dh12. Very insightful H72. Dr. Phil deals with those who come on his show and "put it out there". And so Mr. Dubas came on the show and put it out there. And so "Dr. Phil" made some observations.....BTW both Shanni & Kelly Hrudey, with their comments today, saw right through it.

[@JDI85]

How many times are you planning to copy and paste this comment?

[@wisebear2919]

@@JDI85 As many times as it is relevent to the subject matter. My point in posting is not about promotion. It's about calling all of us to a higher standard of leadership, love and respect for our loved ones and colleagues. In short it's about being a man not a self centered whiner who breaks under his failure with a hockey team. C'mon, he's a multi millionare with a charmed life. it's precisely because of this "entitled" attitude that Shanni cut him loose - when he discovered it was no longer about the team it was about Kyle. Thanks for the comment Jon, God bless you!!

[@KA-gy3lz]

If you’re the richest team in the league and you’re not willing to pay your GM what he’s worth, then you’re just publicly admitting your #1 goal is not winning. That’s what MLSE did today unfortunately. Hope Shanny gets fired

[@BurtTurbo]

Nobody know what he was paid last year, or what he was offered, or what he asked for. Also, his team has consistently failed. How exactly is moving in a mistake, when he would have spent his off-season attempting to correct his mistakes?

[@pl6818]

What is he worth? 6-7 years at the helm and 1 playoff series to show for

[@pjpredhomme7699]

He is getting paid what he is worth now !!!

[@clark85]

the fuck are you talking about do you realise how much they pay babcock not to coach??

[@pjpredhomme7699]

@@BurtTurbo how about all the big $ contracts they are going to have to eat - that is 100% on Dubas - trading for Murray and that contract ? Dorion must owe him BJs for life

[@naturebc]

Yes he did exactly that.

[@Mario-qw2fo]

Hoedown is insulted cause he was exposed for his laziness, which is and was in his short career…..