Unique Military Trials Steyr-Hahn M1911 Pistol

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Today we are looking at a unique military trials Steyr-Hahn M1911 pistol which has been fitted with an adjustable tangent rear sight. The standard model of the Steyr-Hahn has a fixed rear notch, but it seems that a potential client requested (or Steyr anticipated that someone would request) and adjustable sight model along with a detachable shoulder stock/holster. So they took one of the first batch of commercial production guns and modified it for aimed ("aimed") fire out to 1800 meter. The stock was relieved to match the new sights as well. Ultimately, of course, this pattern was not adopted by anyone, and this is the only known example of such a configuration.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
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Tucson, AZ 85754

[@AvaToccoRodriguez]

This channel in a nutshell. “Huh, that’s pretty neat.” I love it

[@texasforever6950]

Ikr? Its amazing 😂

[@stephennelson4954]

"Nice *H i s s* " Steve 1989 probably.

[@wilsonj4705]

A handgun with 1,800 meter sights? Did Jerry Miculek custom order this thing? You sure that's not in 10s of meters?

[@tz8785]

The elevation looks a bit extreme for 180 m.

[@gregoryfilin8040]

Early autoloading pistol optimism. It was seen as a carbine replacement. It was a phase in development history.

[@emeryhenry1849]

@@gregoryfilin8040 yeah, but if we're being honest that was optimistic for rifles (unless we're talking about volley sights)

[@ramjb]

@@gregoryfilin8040 optimism or not on the longest sight range, a minimum sight range of 400m borders absolute crazyness in what respects to me...

[@gregoryfilin8040]

Emery Henry it was and still is. I think because people saw them as a hopeful replacement.

[@yoxernator4076]

Nothing quite like experimental trials pistols with your morning cereal

[@jasondoe2596]

Or with your lunch! Greetings from Europe :D

[@jameshealy4594]

Or with your midnight ice-cream you're totally not using a butter knife to eat. Greetings from Australia

[@bikecommuter24]

or waiting for the coffee pot to finish ☕️

[@pipebombpete.6861]

Or starving in the morning cause you’re watching this instead of eating.

[@presidentmerkinmuffley6769]

Or taking straight pulls off the whiskey bottle.

[@Breakfast_and_Bullets]

4:03 - As an artilleryman, I ALWAYS use a protractor when I aim.... Granted my projectile is just a little bigger than a Steyr-Hahn's...... By 146mm......

[@andyprairiedog]

HAHA....Thanks for sending them "steel footballs" for us grunts. Good to go.

[@Breakfast_and_Bullets]

Hell yeah, Shoot Move and Communicate, brother!

[@matthayward7889]

7:58 “you’re not going to hit anything at 1,800m with a pistol” Jerry Miculek: hold my beer

[@51WCDodge]

Yeah, but a lot of fun trying! Especially if others are paying for ammo.

[@ringding1000]

Off hand to boot........

[@phantomspaceman]

@@Kyks2244 They can travel roughly 2300m when fired from a pistol at a 45 degree angle but it's well outside of their effective range. The military doesn't even bother engaging with DMRs past 800m.

[@PeanutNore]

​@@Kyks2244 No. Maximum range is achieved with the bore at an angle of 30 to 40 degrees relative to the ground, and at that angle a 9mm round will hit the dirt at around 1300 to 1400 yards.

[@kevinreardon2558]

@@Kyks2244 Depends on what altitude you are at.

[@ryanpeck3377]

ATF= “you cant put a stock on a Glock” Me= “my glock identifies as a Steyr Hahn M1911”

[@HellbirdIV]

It is a silly way of implementing a law that obviously was intended to make powerful rifles less concealable, when you consider that from a law enforcement perspective, stocked pistols would be preferable for civilian use; Stocks make guns less concealable, and more accurate, which means it is harder to sneak one somewhere it shouldn't be, and should Doofus McDingus decide to get his Glock out because he thinks he's an action star, he's *slightly* less likely to hit innocent bystanders.

[@HellbirdIV]

@@jackandersen1262 Thanks for the clarification! It supports my belief that retaining the second amendment is a mistake. The rights of gun ownership should be properly controlled with normal laws, subject to normal legal scrutiny, rather than the current mess of trying to mesh modern common-sense laws with a 200-year old document held by some as sacrosanct. Things like the AFB come about as (failed) compromises that leave legal gun owners frustrated and anti-gun people disappointed, while having minimal effect on existing gun-related problems. Proper legislation could tackle the problem and find more reasonable compromises for both sides.

[@Staingo_Jenkins]

@Matheus Falango What country, if you don't mind me asking?

[@FreeOfFantasy]

@Matheus Falango it worked in Australia. Of cause they didn't have an organized crime problem that bad to begin with and smuggling something in is rather difficult.

[@FreeOfFantasy]

@@HellbirdIV For me the 2. Referees to a regulated militia aka national guard for national defense minute man style. The SC had of cause a different opinion.

[@PolenarTactical]

Steyr-Hahn roland special

[@myalienware]

I am always surprised that Steyr never modded the M1911 to take detachable magazines. I think adoption and usage of this handgun would have dramatically expanded. It is a somewhat awkward pistol to hold but is remarkable small such as the slide when compared to a colt 1911.

[@urbanrelichunter]

A blind man went to a restaurant. "Menu sir?" Asked the owner. "I'm blind. Just bring me one of your dirty forks.. I will smell it & order." The confused owner got a fork. The blind man smelt the fork with a deep breath. "Yes, I will have the lamb with seasoned potatoes and spring vegetables. "Unbelievable!" thought the owner. The blind man ate and left. 2 weeks later the blind man returned. The owner, wanting to see how good his smell is, quickly went to the kitchen where his wife Brenda was cooking. He said, "Do me a favor and rub this fork over your private part!", which she does! He then goes to the blind man and gives him the fork. The blind man takes it, puts it to his nose and says "Oh interesting..., I never knew Brenda worked here!"

[@robertnrobretual2749]

What a horrible restaurant

[@a4channoob]

ran out of artillery shells? just have the troops volley fire of these and make it rain lead

[@Pyre001]

Imagine trying this out as a gimmick and actually hitting something at 1800 meters...

[@Andy47357]

someone call jerry!

[@beyondsingularity]

Here we can see a perfect example of of a volley fire pistol :D Aim 1000 of these at a 45° angle, fire and somebody at 1800 meters is going to have a nasty bruise :D

[@PeanutNore]

At a 45 degree angle a 9mm will hit the dirt at around 1300 yards and will have about 10 ft-lb of energy left when it does

[@john-paulsilke893]

Nope, closer absolute range is 2,300yrds. Where are you getting this information? NRA Facts book 1983 is where I’m getting my info, name your source.

[@john-paulsilke893]

Sorry 2,300 meters or 2,500yrds

[@PeanutNore]

I used the ballistic calculator on gundata.org - it's certainly possible that its results are wrong especially in extreme cases like this

[@john-paulsilke893]

Gun data probably cuts off its data way before 43 degrees like this would have to be fired to get this range. Further all of these ranges are insane and other-worldly and whilst technically possible, simply not logical or useful and effective. Cool nerdy computer top gun geek stuff though.

[@chrissoclone]

"Hahn" for hammer? As a German this is news to me, a hammer is a "Hammer".... Edit: I did my research now and will never doubt you again, in the context of weapons it's really called "Hahn", which was totally new to me. Learned something new today. :(

[@itsmebatman]

I have a hunch this comes from the same train of thought that made the Americans call it "cock the hammer". My guess is that the earliest examples of hammers supposed to hit firing pins looked somewhat like a male chicken. This technology was still relatively new at the turn of the 19th century. So there was no established terminology for the novelties it featured.

[@Pumba421]

Never question Gun Jesus

[@2adamast]

Long ago snaphance or _Schnapphahn_ from _snaphaan_

[@petesheppard1709]

If you absolutely have to have a unique 1911... At 1400m, volley fire would be hilarious; the terminal effect would probably be a bit like thrown gravel.

[@Erpyrikk]

the fact the Romans had tongs to extract sling bullets from flesh shows that lead projectiles at terminal velocity are still quite capable.

[@petesheppard1709]

@@Erpyrikk So true. Long ago, I read an article about just how grimly effective slings could be at long range. IIRC, they rivaled bows. If I had to take the awful choice, I'd rather be shot with a pistol than hit by a slung lead bullet.

[@aurorawhorealis]

9x19, which in 115 gr. loads isn't very different from 9mm Steyr, has about 23 ft/lbs of energy at 1400m, so yeah it would definitely still do some damage, comparable to a .22 maybe

[@hjorturerlend]

Minimum range setting of 400m jfc... So, effectively a pistol without any sights.

[@dak4465]

This handgun has always held a special place in my heart. Theyre just damn fine guns both in feel and in looks

[@Zorglub1966]

totally agree. And it's beautifully machined.

[@aleramone23]

I love them too. wondering how hard to find and how expensive they are on the United States. im from south america so they are almost impossible to find here.

[@Zorglub1966]

@Alejandro Medina ​ I have one, a 1911 Chilean contract, but deactivated

[@mightywhite360]

This gun is so ugly. It may be a reliable weapon, idk. Never seen one till now, but it's just ugly.

[@dak4465]

@@mightywhite360 to each his own i guess. But keep in mind this was pre to during ww1 and there hadnt really been a set popular design yet

[@browndd]

1:56 - Wow what a case. That's some serious eye-candy.

[@williamwalker9315]

So early that there's no witty remarks from GoldenCaulk?

[@josiahgibson6373]

I haven't seen him in a while. Hopfully he hasn't gone the way of the Spef.

[@aurorawhorealis]

I miss spef

[@jackdanger9017]

Are you sure that the range markings are meters? Maybe like on the M95 they are in "Schritt" which is about 0.5m.

[@wingracer1614]

That would make more sense. The longest position looks too high for 180 meters but not high enough for 1800. Looks just about right for 900 meters though.

[@9559ns]

Austrian soldier: Hans vhy are jew shoosting der pistol in ze air? 2 kilometers away: Entate pig-dog takes 9mm of glorious German efficiency to ze head. Hans: Is marksmanship, ja!

[@chrismath149]

Dude, it's an Austrian weapon. Why do I bother, probably a troll anyway.

[@Lasenggo]

Hey Ian, I noticed that there is KZbin ads this time. Sure hope KZbin is allowing you to monetize.

[@yourlocaltoad5102]

Really interesting gun. I‘m kinda surprised that someone really thought that 1.8 kilometers would be a distance that anyone could still hit something with that gun. That much optimism is kinda „unaustrian“ It would be quite nice, if you could get one of these small ring lights that fit on the front of the camera. So basically a light ring that surrounds your camera optics. That would probably increase the visibility of close up shots (like when you showed the holding mechanism of the shoulder stock).

[@yourlocaltoad5102]

Rob Hitler isn’t really a good example for the rest of us austrians. Please don’t judge us today by his actions, thats kinda rude. But I agree, believing that the third reich could win a two-front war was pretty optimistic (or a desperate try to be positive).

[@polygondwanaland8390]

@@yourlocaltoad5102 it was a joke m8 nobody actually thinks the average Austrian is Hitler

[@TheR0B0sauce]

Gotta love a good Forgotten Weapons video after morning PT.

[@drooodful]

Just a small correction . The german word "Hahn" means either rooster or faucet. The German word for hammer is funny enough just "Hammer" XD

[@Celebmacil]

Don't ask where the etymological connection between "rooster" and "faucet" comes from. It's probably best to leave some things unsaid.

[@JackManiacky]

Maybe then the pistol is called Hahn because the hammer resembles a rooster's spurs

[@Celebmacil]

@@JackManiacky Or maybe it's a "Hahn" because it is a bullet spout, spewing projectiles all over the place as fast as can be. That would be a more likely reference, I'd say, similar to kulsprutepistol.

[@g.bergervoet4505]

It is named Hahn because the shape looks like the neck and head of a rooster. Also when it strikes it looks like a bird pecking, like how a rooster pecks at the ground.

[@sthenzel]

Hahn is used in gun terminology here, at least in common gun talk, maybe not in official use.

[@bennetwilson8122]

make optimistic sights on pistols great again

[@gunner678]

Something interesting about stocked pistols!

[@YCCCm7]

Am I bad human for liking the idea of tangent sights on a pistol? Wouldn't be my pick for when I need it... But if we're talking at my leisure...

[@sethrich5998]

1800m... with a pistol. I’m actually impressed the max range of the cartridge is that far.

[@jasondoe2596]

Dunno about that cartridge, but I'm convinced those same guys would put 1800m adjustable sights on a 2.7mm Kolibri!

[@moosemaimer]

Put tall enough sights and it'll shoot all the way to Paris!

[@borismuller86]

*tightens grip on shoulder stock* “I’m gonna kill Hitler.” *aims up in the air*

[@intelligentgrawlix794]

Accurate no

[@baker90338]

I believe here in the United States we have a wonderful quote for this sort of action. “Hold my beer”

[@josephl2586]

THE ATF HATES HIM FOR THIS ONE SIMPLE TRICK!

[@fastmongrel]

Love the finish on both of those. Austria Hungary had some talented machinists.

[@John1911]

Hits pause and Googles Steyr-Hahn stock. 😎

[@brandonbird5611]

4:16 are there any reproduction stocks?

[@Fjasjdnwsussj]

What are you talking about Ian?

[@hansgruber3397]

Im impessed, over all your videos, your german is getting better

[@kevinreardon2558]

I can hit something at 1,800m, as long as you don't care what it is.

[@shawnr771]

Hit the ground please.

[@DoRC]

Lol 1800 meters is over a mile away. Good luck.

[@johndallman2692]

Unique Steyr-Hahn? That's going to be the Fireplace Collection … yup.

[@11Kralle]

"Vom Ursprung der Selbstladepistole" translates as "On the origin of the self-loading handgun(/pistol)"

[@DonDiesel885]

german citizens are allowed to buy and own rifles and pistols kinda like americans right? some forms and bada boom out the door and into the store?

[@JohnDoe-kl8cd]

Anyone know if there is a video of someone shooting ... Heck...400 meters with this and maybe... Lolol 1800m?

[@RealCadde]

"You are not going to hit anything at 1,800 meters with this" That wasn't the idea behind those sights though. Assuming the bullet can reach that far, the idea was to use firearms as makeshift artillery to simply harass the shit out of your enemy.

[@Andy47357]

i think the tangent sights were practical against the zulu and other rebellious colonies of africa in the early 1900’s. you might need to try that in a match. fight the zulu!

[@juhomaki-petaja]

Could sight be tens of meters? 40-180m

[@AndreasMarx]

Maybe, but maximum elevation looks too steep for 180m IMO. But I suspect they are Schritt rather than meters, so "only" 300m-1350m.

[@somebody3143]

PREST-O CHANGE-O, SHOULDER STOCK!!!

[@Davidautofull]

so why couldn't the engraving be for Mr Hahn? what is his first name?

[@isaiahcampbell488]

I want to see an Olympic and local level competition class of using pistols with elevated sights (possibly in conjunction with butt stocks (I know ATF; maybe for sport there could be a sporting ATF compliant system)) and compete for range. Essentially a long range competition but with pistols using elevated iron sights. There could also be an optics class. Just an idea of some competition I think would be neat. It would be so "dumb" and "backwards" to today's military doctorin I can't see it being perceived as anything but a sport.

[@kingsofleon9377]

Call of duty WWll

[@VulpeRenard]

Super controversial opinion here, but if you find you're designing a pistol you think someone wants and the minimum zero is 400 meters, maybe one of the two of you doesn't know what he's looking for...

[@johnplaid648]

OMG. The sight picture is bad! Thank god John Browning showed the world what a semi-auto is all about!

[@johnnypopulus5521]

I am thinking of buying a Steyr Hahn & am more & more convinced I should. Am I a goof for EDC this gun, cuz I'm gonna once I have it in hand.

[@cozmcwillie7897]

In a novel I read the guy had one and although it was 9mm it was not X19, parabellum I think it was 9mm X 25 Steyr.

[@IR_IE_ID]

1800 M with a 9mm pistol ... I wish I had that kind of optimism

[@randyrick8019]

have seen several Romanian M1912's that have a dovetail cut along the rear of the grip-frame similar to some other pistols for attaching a shoulder stock. I have not ever seen a shoulderstock mated to these pistols. I conjecture that this was done by Romania to fit an existing shoulderstock that was made for some other pistol.

[@r.m.cortez8178]

What is the name of that pistol on front on the book. The larger transparent one.

[@tobin9575]

I'm a bit surprised that Hahn is referencing the Hammer. Hahn in German at least is Rooster which is similar to the action i suppose, pecking up corn or something. @Forgotten Weapons, I'm not sure if this is a coincidence? Or it is the name of the designer I suppose.

[@Omnihil777]

For some years I translated books & articles from english to german, would be kinda fun to translate that book into english - maybe I'd mail the publisher about that idea. Gonna research that book a bit.

[@pandabuttonftw745]

I'm trying to grow my hair like gun jesus. Maybe it will make up for the whole not having guns in Aus thing. :(

[@Beamos12]

Hey Ian could you see if you could find a Ruger Hawkeye single shot pistol to look at/shoot? I've always wanted to see one work but no one has video of it.

[@bigb4894]

1800 meters.....optimistic much? oh, Hahn in German means rooster.

[@jameslawrie3807]

Maybe that's why they issued pistol-stock combos to artillerists: you needed a map board and a gun team to operate the elevation

[@angrydingus5256]

1911, 2 world wars! .45acp is... wait what in the heck??

[@johannesschimpfol5890]

Are you sure the sights are in meter, not in Schritt ( 1Schritt ~ 75cm ) like the ones of the Steyr M95?

[@ommog4679]

It's not meters, it's "Schritt" (about a 3/4 meter) 400 Schritt = 300 meters

[@ShootAUT]

I also thought that the numerals on the sights indicate 10m increments. Then he put them all the way up and... well, 9mm Lugers do not require such an extreme angle at 200m (around 220 yards). XD

[@MrJonathandcrow]

Barrage Fire

[@desroin]

I'd love seeing someone shooting this at 1800m just to see if the bullet will even end up there ^^

[@todesgeber]

that trials gun appears to have had the slide smoothed. check out the ejection port...

[@JenniferinIllinois]

Did Ian say Bergmanns? Measuring your sight picture with a protractor. LOL!!!!

[@AxisPeter]

Hahn stands for rooster in German. Most hammers, profile-wise, look vaguely like roosters. In French it's also called a rooster (un coq).

[@patrickhuber8630]

It also means Cock

[@patrickhuber8630]

Or even "tap" it has multiple meanings

[@SlimCowboy]

Totally cool I have a Chilean contract gun and love seeing any form of information put out on the Steyr hahn plus I got very excited at the 4:30 mark and will now make it my life's goal to find a stock for my gun thank you sir for continually putting out amazing content

[@TALLA300CforumZ]

it will get just fine you may not hit anything but it will get there. people where a lot smarter in the old day then to day

[@wallaroo1295]

It looks like Steampunk Robocop's gun!

[@youliveonabloodfarm5118]

someone with the initial S.H. ..who could that be??

[@akimlettner2984]

Some companies have to make up dated models as a loophole to high cap mag bans

[@mudy7471]

i dont wanna say anything but hahn doesnt mean hammer it means: a male chicken

[@RaDeus87]

That front sight is basically a mini-bayonet 😯

[@anonymousaccordionist3326]

Whenever I see a Forgotten Weapons video featuring a pistol with an attached stock I always think of the "Broom-ception" reload of the broomhandle Mauser.

[@MSUbulldog21]

ITS A MAGAZI... oh wait never mind.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Strange that a book from gun-hating Germany is a great source about the first self-loading pistols (note: I am German and most of my fellow Germans fear and hate guns...)...great vid, Ian :)

[@AndreasMarx]

Maybe because the book isn't from Germany? Mötz and Schuy are Austrians.

[@svenoliver8311]

Or could it mean 40 - 180 meters?

[@TheRogueWolf]

What even would be the velocity of a 9mm round at nearly two kilometers?

[@aurorawhorealis]

Little under 300 fps

[@shawnr771]

Cool pistol and stock. Shoulder stocked pistols are intriguing. Although having a slightly longer barrel would be more useful for accuracy at greater ranges. Not sure I believe those markings are for 1800m with a 9mm pistol. Although until proven otherwise I will take Ian's word for it. He has much more experience, access to information and ability to research information than I do.

[@B52Stratofortress1]

Does Fireplace Guy own these?

[@ZGryphon]

Good old Steyr-Hahn. It's got a grip that feels like it was designed for people with right-angle clamps for hands, like life-size Lego minifigures, but I love it anyway. :)

[@jmalmsten]

I know the accuracy would be bad. But I'd love to see an inRange episode where something like this gun is put to the test of hitting anything at 1.8 Km... I'm guessing the idea was that if you saw a regiment of infantry marching that far off you could aim in the general direction and empty a couple of mags before advancing backwards the hell away. Hoping maybe a couple bullets hit someone or something of importance. Since you could only be somewhat sure of at least how far the bullet would travel. Basically treating it like a tiny artillery piece. I have far too little experience myself to do anything but speculate wildly. So seeing someone actually try it out would be interesting.

[@eaofdeath187]

I could see an adjustable pistol sight out to 200m possibly being useful for semi-accurate suppression but I admire their optimism going for 1.8km (1.1 miles).

[@nichevo1]

Whwn you say M1911, one thinks of the .45, so I had thought this would be a trials gun in .45 ACP at least. Disappointing.

[@ФилиппЛыков-д8е]

This one might have been made for some British or US trials, so that the rear sight could be in feet.

[@gunfisher4661]

Rather nice craftsmanship on the pistol

[@ezzz42]

I cant believe your still alive after stealing jerrys amazon delivery off his porch. 1800m jerry ordered that for sure!

[@iosifstalin431]

Aguante el Jesús de los Fierros!

[@Caiddenn]

I would be nice to see if you could get your hands on a Steyr-Hahn M1911/16 Maschinepistole in a future episode. Be nice to know more about that one.

[@phillgizmo8934]

The mounting solution chosen is rugged but can be firm. Still better to engineer the Stock Mount to the modern ergonomy standarts. I wonder a lot why the mountable shoulder stocks have not been developed in the times of hard hitting hunting revolvers, and with such integrated recocking assist by the left hand. Nowadays Modularity is well considered by the weapon devs.

[@ionion3089]

I always click on the LIKE button at the beginning of the video. And i am never wrong.

[@ionion3089]

I always click on the LIKE button at the beginning of the video. And i am never wrong.

[@tautscher20]

if you ever need something transladed from this book, I´ll own the same one and from Austria. just dm me if you ever need something! :)

[@CM-bk8lo]

Your my favourite neck beard

[@Wanderingwalker-ke6mg]

Think they’re pushing out the boat at 1,800? Show me that gun performing such a feat please 😂

[@paulvarga9696]

How about 40-180 meters?

[@ironwolfF1]

Were it not for our Byzantine gun laws, shoulder stocks like the one in the video could be a thing again (modern composites being what they are).