United Methodism, the Southern Baptist Convention, and The Salvation Army

After my quick response to Albert Mohler yesterday, I wanted to follow up with a few points today. Here are a few links that I mentioned in the podcast.
Matt ‘Reilly ‘Evangelical Egalitarians’ - • Evangelical Egalitaria...
Murray Vasser ‘Can Women Be Pastors?’ - • Can Women Be Pastors? ...
Here's Mohler's podcast/article - albertmohler.com/2024/05/02/b...

[@delynnroberts7407]

Thank you Andy for the insightful way you present this!

[@CrabtreeJK]

I appreciate your further clarification and discussions on this topic. I will check out the links and keep learning more!

[@john1349]

Two things can be true at the same time. Theoretically, more liberal minded Christian’s could be right about women in head positions, and the LG+ crowd could have used that to beat the church over the head, which clearly happened. And probably will to the Baptists as well if they allow it. Ironically, I’ve heard that very argument by them in a general conference. They were calling out their perceived hypocrisy over conservatives saying we should take scripture at face value while allowing women in head positions, conceding the point! No tortured logic needed. A simple and devastatingly effective argument aimed at people in the middle. It wasn’t hermeneutical purity that lead the church to change the stance on women pastors in the 1950’s. It was contemporary notions of social justice and liberalism that had been going on long before that. At the judgement seat of Christ I’m sure we’ll be able to ask. Would I lay odds that it was us allowing authority to be usurped (Genesis 3:16)? 100%. But I could be wrong about that and these others things still be true, which I think they objectively are as you can follow the debates that occurred. Dr. Mohler is using common sense and observation to imply that will happen to them as well if they change their stance on women pastors.

[@jeffdollar1646]

In addition to the contextual argument, there is also the issue of observation of the results of permitting women to hold authoritative positions in the church. What is confirmed in this is the feminization of the church, a weakening of the militant spirit of maintaining doctrinal integrity, and the cracking open of the door to apostasy.

[@RGabeDavis]

I see two ministry roles. Deacons and overseers(Elder). And the only difference in the roles is the “Authority “ aspect. Therefore not having problem with Women serving in all roles but Bishop and presiding Elder. This means that my brother Global Methodists and most Baptists both disagree with me from opposite sides 😂. I hold more of an historical Anglican viewpoint. But it doesn’t rise to the level of separation like the total disregard of Biblical authority that the UMC was leaning into. Maybe a slippery slope but lack of denominational discipline is the real culprit in the fall of the UMC.

[@BrianElliottBGE]

Maybe two offices, but not roles.

[@mikelyons2831]

Although I don't think women should be Pastors in pulpits...worse is Calvinism... it's another gospel. "Individuals are born doomed from the womb to a certain death and are to glorify Him by their destruction" John Calvin He did not arrive at that via God's foreknowledge of who will receive/trust/believe in Jesus. But said it is by God's arbitrary chosing some to be Irresistibly Regenerated/saved & passing over all/most others... they have no grace, hope, mercy offered them, they are vessels prepared for destruction by God's divine decree.

[@jonlannister345]

Would be a good idea not to ascribe to John Calvin anything that is taken directly from Scripture.

[@mikelyons2831]

@@jonlannister345 Show me from scripture where God has pre-reprobated most & they will suffer His wrath before they had done anything good or evil, without any grace, hope or mercy offered them? Please don't eisegete from Romans mid-9... that's so embarrassing?

[@jonlannister345]

@@mikelyons2831 Not here to argue with you on this issue. Just beware you don't throw out Christ when you obsess over the man John Calvin. Has Christ been divided? No.

[@mikelyons2831]

@@jonlannister345 Good advice. But perhaps you haven't experienced the fallout this heresy has caused. Family & church splits, many have gone through deconstructionism of their beliefs in God because of it. Drive home from church somewhere this Sunday "Honey, do you agree with what the new Pastor is teaching?" "Well, he says it's how salvation really works, but he's right about it being a hard pill to swallow" "Then I don't want to try for a boy...I don't want to have anymore children. I can't be a part of conceiving & birthing a soul that might be pre-condemned & have no grace, mercy or hope of salvation. My Grandfather's church taught God sent His Son so everyone that will & CAN call upon Jesus could be delivered from the sting of death caused by sin... not just a special favored elect few? How can this come from the same bible?"

[@jonlannister345]

​@@mikelyons2831 I live in a nation where the overwhelming majority of people who go to church say things like "Jesus is a metaphor" and "It's all just a bit of escapism" and "the Bible is just some myths we use to teach lessons" so I've seen all sorts of heresies and the fruit of their total domination of the church buildings. People have fallen away from the faith, and all around evils have returned which were not seen for 2000 years; unrepentant sinful lifestyles are affirmed in the churches, and children are once again passed over the fire. Many who call 'Lord, Lord' will be told "I never knew you, depart from me you who work iniquity" Consider the parable of the wheat and the tares. Ignore the man Calvin who is of no consequence to our salvation. "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household." If some one will refuse to have children because some of their children may be cast into Hell, that is a lack of faith. Should your child be cast down, and you raised up in the last day, you will agree with God making that decision. All are desperately wicked and deserve Hell. Only by Grace may we be saved.