USF4 @ Evo 2014: MCZ Daigo (Evil Ryu) vs John Choi (Ryu)

Crazy offstream match. Shoutouts to Young John. Sub for more!
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[@mehulatl]

"The fuck is a combo? I got these old man fundamentals!" - John "Sandstorm" Choi

[@barkon34]

Wow no ultra, practically no focus attack, no fancy fadc combos just pure fundamentals. Seriously a good chunk of that felt like i was watching an ST match. Nice job John Choi

[@kenmasters4219]

Sf4 was such a better game

[@iishyxvietxboyii]

@@kenmasters4219 Daigo was pretty new with E. Ryu in this video.

[@taylorbee4010]

Literally beat him just using fireballs

[@taylorbee4010]

@@kenmasters4219 it's a more Street fighter 2 influenced game

[@kenmasters4219]

@@taylorbee4010 4 was still better tho

[@HeyLookaWildKaisu]

Holy shit. I had heard a lot about John Choi, but never actually see him play... But this... This is his perfect fireball game, huh? Wow. WHY WAS THIS NOT ON STREAM!?

[@PAPASTAIN]

longest four-round winning streak I've seen. you can tell john is an ST o.sagat player because he does nothing but space fireballs, but hell, if it works it works, gs to him

[@co81385]

This is still one of my favorite matches ever!

[@mr_rgp]

Same

[@roxxxjay]

OG fundamentals from John Choi. Daigo also dropped a lot of combos this year.

[@OldManKorea]

Thanks Arturo for getting this awesome match on camera~ Watching Daigo vs Valle and John legit felt like watching Real-Life Evil Ryu vs Ryu. So many levels of awe.

[@Huskasin]

Can we just agree that they're both outstanding players and the rest of us would crumble under the pressure of simply being matched up against either of them?

[@bumblebee9736]

Little bit anticlimactic, but you know... Choi is basically trying to play ST and it shows with his amazing footsies.

[@adamjones7014]

What I especially love about this set, you forget this is sf4. It looks like a SF2 set. tf that choi controlled the match so well that daigo was playing e ryu like regular ryu, is a testament of choi's ability.

[@illDiology]

Off in the distance, Elena beating the crap out of Guy.

[@dapperDON275]

This was the beginning of Daigo's evil Ryu. A bit rough on the edges at first, but after a few years went by his evil Ryu became a God

[@abc2390986]

Yeah he is just so unfamiliar with the Evil Ryu vs Ryu match up here. He soon getting a whole lot better and wrecking in tournaments. For this match he can’t even find a proper chance to land crouch MK FADC. And if he used more red fireball to break focus and use Ultra 1 as projectile punish the outcome is probably going to be different.

[@CatzDaLegit]

Them oldschool sf2 strats. Also, this year was the year of time scams.

[@mangobay3245]

Setups and vortexes (vortices?) being pretty much gone due to delayed wakeup makes more timer scams.

[@devraelamond2951]

Thanks for all the uploads Arturo!

[@yazoo55]

More like, "Ryu's revenge on Daigo".

[@XstremeFighter]

YOUNG CHOI ACTIVATED.

[@atombarn223]

Xstreme Yung Choi 😂👌

[@Joseph-go9fz]

i like the part where they did a crouching medium kick into fireball

[@ItzClobert]

John Choi the man that can win with only sweep, low forward, and fireball.

[@aphelionmusic]

BRING YOUR SALT, BRING YOUR TEARS, AND BRING YOUR EXCUSES FANBOYS, DAIGO GOT BOPPED! This news seriously made EVO for me..well this and every other upset. I'm so glad Daigo all these Japanese "gods" got exposed this EVO without their vortex/unlockable shenanigans. John Choi took it back to ST. No focus, no knockdown setups, no bs. Just straight up fundamentals. Also thank you based Arturo for getting this footage!

[@aphelionmusic]

***** Sako is not a god because he can a really hard combo in vampire savour. IDGAF what they're titles are, they all got exposed this EVO. FRAY

[@GuessParryGod]

***** Sako is still in though, how was he 'exposed'?

[@drithien5284]

Since when is dropping combos right and left considered as "fundamentals"? They both played poorly. And with most rounds being so close there is no "exposing" of any kind, other than your failure to open a dictionary and read what the word means. Or is this another scrub's runt that can't do half a complicated combo? Seth Killian wrote a nice series of articles about that once, the point being:stop making excuses about why you lose and just get better.

[@aphelionmusic]

EXPOSED!

[@Breeze06]

the only god using vortex characters is tokido lol what are you on about

[@linzhiren1887]

anyone know if there's a video of champ vsing daigo?

[@TobyAngeles]

Thank you art for catching OG Choiz still doing the exact same playstyle hes done for 20 years, what a awesome dude, tell him i said sup (he better remember me !) (if u say redkens friend from back in the mit days, he will remember =p)

[@3dat]

Cheers Art! The game has an offline replay log now, and this match would still not have been showcased had it not been for you

[@jorgeinostroza6675]

Guys where can i get a fight stick pad like Daigo's?

[@Asterra2]

So why don't the early matches get CRT TVs to play on like the streamed ones do? CRTs too rare and expensive?

[@sleighte]

good shit Art, thanks for getting all these matches

[@arsonne]

Damn John Choi's footsies were insane. Daigo played absolutely horrible, no idea what to do against that kind of ground game.

[@SWFBrickbox]

is there any video at all of champ sending him to losers?

[@NYCFurby]

Video now in 1080p/60fps :)

[@ceciliadelacharante2365]

I don't understand why Daigo plays E.Ryu like Ryu (only zoning ) . Especially when you know that E.Ryu's life is crap wtf , what a bad choice... Weird match by the way (so many dropping combo... ) + 5:35 => ROFL that reaction was priceless !

[@fabiolean]

I was there that year, and Daigo's performance was off. I think he hadn't really mastered E.Ryu yet, because in later USFIV vids you see him doing awesome combos, kara-demon, etc

[@co81385]

Apparently, as of the time if this match, Daigo was still not quite yet used to Evil Ryu. For proof of this, compare this match to some of Daigo's CPT matches from Evil Ryu. There's a substantial difference!

[@gotoplanz]

Was this on Xbox Live?

[@omgcopyritedstuff]

yo wheres fchamp vs daigo? ive been waiting to see that

[@fnco]

It seems with the loss of vortex we see players this Evo with strong fundamentals shine through.

[@kobedoe1]

***** Daigo played Yun for the start of AE... Did you miss that entire year?

[@Deznere]

kobedoe1 Daigo played Yun for one year... Doesn't mean he relied on vortex. He's always been dominate as Ryu.

[@MrSneakmind]

Daigo is easily in the top 5 in the world for the best street fighter fundamentals, so I don't think that's a fair statement. However in this match, he dropped several combos and lost to the main that he knows better than anyone. If Daigo Ryu mirror matched John Choi, he would have had a much better chance. It's also a little embarassing because Daigo himself said E. Ryu is just a better version of Ryu straight up, yet now he's not even in top 16 for the first time ever.

[@kobedoe1]

***** But he did rely on Yun's vortex... It was what Yun did and what made him so strong. Hes not going to pick up a character and not do what makes the character good. And Daigo did play Ryu mostly in SF4, but hes not locked to the character. He tried to pick up Guy, Guile, and Akuma also, but they never stuck. He was a Balrog and Guile player in ST, Guy player in Alpha (infact, he invented Guy in Alpha), and Ken player in SF3. He plays whoever is top tier (except Guy wasn't top tier in Alpha until Daigo showed what he can do).

[@fnco]

***** Let me correct myself; I meant to say set-play. Daigo said that DWU cripples Ryu's safejump setups and a lot of other things. Since Daigo dropped Ryu because all his setups don't work anymore, I think what I said still applies and is not disingenuous.

[@xieguowuyi]

5:35 a woman fans can't believe her hero lost :(

[@abdelarch8038]

That was clearly Daigo's friend.

[@BankAlexander]

What match is this? Friendly? Sorry i dont know much

[@xoukilong]

I believe this sent daigo packing. Fchamp sent him to losers and choi made him wish he stayed in bed

[@BankAlexander]

Xouki Long Thanks man. Damn that happened fast. I wonder how long he'll continue to play, after not getting the results expected and losing these in recent upsets.

[@TheBizziB]

Not gonna lie, Daigo's Evil Ryu wasn't really that great, IMHO.

[@xSonicFlashx]

Agreed!

[@markpro2104]

LOOL he clealry not taking this seriously or hes fuking tired lmao

[@elantoinet.9691]

that woman at the end of the match like :O

[@uchenna419]

mago, inflitration, daigo, Xiao Hai, Tokido, xian, GamerBee , laugh, Justin Wong, Kazunoko, Dieminion, Haitani, mike ross, all eliminated, this is very good. it's time for someone else to shine, please be a new blood sleeper.

[@Drilbit]

Wait who took out xian?

[@TheRealOGHaze]

Yu Narukami Snake Eyez and Itabashi Zangief.

[@wideawakeanimal1]

But Fuudo still there, in winners at that!

[@uchenna419]

Yu Narukami still searching for who took him out, but be was placed 17th,

[@uchenna419]

ViciousShogun thanks for the update

[@bigzer01]

With the release of the new character changes right before Evo all the gods have been made mortal. Now they must struggle to climb back up to the top of their respective thrones, but they must hurry or when they reach the top they will find a new god has already taken their place. HYPE....AS....FUCK THIS YEAR!!!

[@Solesamurai]

I want snake eyez to win soooooooo bad man. Would be hype as hell to see snake eyez vs Sako in grand finals #Kreygasm

[@ignfan4life]

Aaron Johnson I'm hoping to see Snake eyez vs Ricky lol.

[@Solesamurai]

Snake eyez vs ricky would be mad hype too. They always have good sets and it would be a guaranteed American evo champ. The problem would be bonchan and sako tho. If snake eyez has to play bonchan in winners finals idk if he can win because Sagat fucks zangief up really bad. And sako plays so many chars he can easily counterpick ricky Ortiz and snake eyez.

[@roggy12345]

both players dropped combos...Are you sure there is no lag on the monitors? It seemed surprising so many combos were dropped

[@StuartHayden]

Get that cheese, John! He played those matches perfectly. Great match from both of them but patience and fundamentals will win every time.

[@attitude8x]

5:35 The look on the woman's face! She couldn't believe that Daigo got eliminated!

[@GuntanksInSpace]

This Choi/Daigo match reminds me so much of their O. Sagat Mirrors in their infamous Super Turbo match. You know the one.

[@SmokeyJoker13]

I saw this match live, what a masterclass

[@valdezsteve22]

Choi did the one thing the majority of people didn't do is block that crouching M kick consistently

[@ThaBigDaddyCMaster1]

I hope this gets people off of the "Evil Ryu is god tier, super Ryu++++ S tier bandwagon". He plays the same as before and had some strengths/weaknesses to Ryu that mattered and people ignored. Some tweaks doesn't make you super god status and the game had been out too soon anyways for such judgements. It is interesting the world's best Ryu supposedly picked a "Ryu+" and lost to the character he knows best though. Maybe next year when the game has been out longer, we'll have a more flushed out idea of where characters stand.

[@Un1234l]

You take this match of all matches, where both players drops their combos and punishes, to come to a conclusion that E. Ryu was played to his potential and doesn't live up to the the hype?

[@ThaBigDaddyCMaster1]

None of the Evil Ryu's got far nor did E. Ryu win any Ultra tournament prior to Evo. Sako is using four characters and lost to Gackt using him. Sako could win with him but he was already a great Evil Ryu player. I don't care for tournament logic myself but since everyone seems to love using it I'm pointing it out. It's all hype. He's the same character as before in nearly every way and 5,5% health doesn't jump you 20 spots on a tier list, when many characters have considerable changes into take into account. Hype is just that, hype. Give the game more time. People were jumping on this "top tier" train before the game came out. Early tier lists are dumb.

[@javalavadingdong]

Evil Ryu IS really good. Its just Daigo doesn't have much experience with him yet.

[@ThaBigDaddyCMaster1]

javdaman123 Nobody is saying he's bad. I'm saying it's far too early to determine tiers and we have people going around saying he's "S+++++ tier" and "Ryu is worthless". This is not the case. Ryu is good, and Evil Ryu is good. Even if Evil Ryu is better, it doesn't make Ryu worthless because Ryu has several advantages that Evil Ryu doesn't, and vice versa. People just predicted that Evil Ryu was going to be picked up and steamroll everyone and it simply wasn't the case. Exactly like I said. If he is super god top tier now, then he would have been at least top 5 in the past version. He doesn't have enough changes to warrant that jump, especially when other characters have good changes and are flying under the radar right now.

[@ChitlinJuices]

Agreed.

[@osaka_daioh]

Spooky totally pulling through to the end!

[@PwnerGeist]

The real question here is did daigo fuck up by switching from Ryu to E.Ryu?

[@WHPH10]

Daigo was prob like "these Americans are too loud I'm going home"

[@larsattack]

Lol daigos been playing in the states for 15 years. He's use to it.

[@Solesamurai]

1. Most Japanese players actually enjoy the crowd involvement in matches and the American fgcs hype and enthusiasm. 2. Daigo has been playing pro fighting games for over a decade and a half he is easily capable of tuning out of the noise at this point lol

[@WHPH10]

Aaron Johnson Yea this is all true but I don't feel Daigo's ever got this much hype and attention before. Also crowd involvement is different from crowd disrespect. This just seemed like a troll match from Daigo. I'm confused myself and my original comment was more of a troll comment than an actual reason I would have for Daigo's loss. Even if Daigo himself comes out and says he lost fairly I'll still say it's bullshit.

[@ghettoshampoo]

WHPH10 option select

[@WHPH10]

lordofultima elaborate

[@murphboys]

This doesn't prove Evil Ryu is worse than Ryu, it proves that John Choi played better than Daigo. Even if he is my favorite player, I always root for him to lose. Very happy for John, if he tightens up his execution and blatant discomfort and unfamiliarity with specific pokes, he would be 1 player you don't want to see in tournament

[@azuresaiyan9005]

Well better than him for this match atleast.

[@nickjackson7735]

***** Yeah I think you could see nerves playing a big factor in this match. Both of them dropped combos. Choi messed up uppercut FADC ultra which anyone can do. In Daigo's match vs Valle he was doing all the stuff he was supposed to, and Valle didn't mess up at all.

[@azuresaiyan9005]

Nick Jackson This Evo's been crazy. Daigo, Infiltration, Tokido, Pr Balrog, Xian, Xaiohai, all not making top 8 or even top 16.

[@iAmDmagic]

every round could have went either way no one is better

[@AdalbertoNivar]

better? i dont think so, im not a Daigo Fans, but i can say clearly, that this guy is no good enought for be a same level as Daigo, the result is result but daigo could be better than that.

[@boomergonzales6115]

Damn, not a single super in regulation time. This match got me real nostalgic for my old SF2 competition days. Maybe I should pick up SF4.

[@DavidGodd]

YOU FILMED IT, ARTURO YOU BASED GOD.

[@azuresaiyan9005]

To the Daigo fanboys, stop making excuses, he lost fair and square. But to the Daigo haters, he isn't a fraud or getting rusty. People have off days, remember, lots of killers got eliminated early, that's just how crazy this Evo is.

[@MystyrNile]

Brought a smile to Daigo's face.

[@IMangame]

Daigo missing links. It must be his friend playing.

[@ceciliadelacharante2365]

J'ai ri haha

[@JustalveN]

One of the more important matches that wasnt covered...gj camera man

[@MisledTrick]

That was Daigo then. 2015 Daigo is a whole new fighter.

[@hazbaska1]

Man, that one guy saying “dojyaaaaaan” took me back

[@decksteroussnail]

Straight up fundamentals on a MAS -- mad respect

[@italian316]

5:36 Lol at Miranda SuperYAN Face "WTF Just Happen"

[@barkon34]

Daigo played Evil Ryu just like he played regular Ryu. Iv been noticing that with a lot of the newer e.ryu players as well its like they don't realize he's a different character.

[@stefnhawkn2754]

JOhn choi is old school, not surprised he won. hes been doing it since turbo 2 around there with valle etc and still practices with some of the big names on the west coast.

[@EddyeT27]

anyone count how many hit confirms daigo dropped?

[@djbowlz2128]

2:04 why no fadc into ultra? too far?

[@Femil90]

great video that shows that you can win vs best players without doing anything fancy

[@FuneraillesDuMonde]

this is high quality shit. thanks, art.

[@dumba989]

Max CPM

[@EvilLuisito]

The worst thing about this is that John Choi was dropping EVERYTHING lol. I mean Daigo dropped a few combos here and there too. Though sometimes it felt more like he was going for some sort of weird/desperate reset. But point is, John Choi was clearly washed up execution wise, but he still came up on top due to his strong fundamentals and footsie knowledge. Big props to him.

[@Silks]

One thing you can count on with Choi: solid gameplay.

[@xoukilong]

This is how I'm going to play sf6 on the first day

[@Elpha22]

I used to think Valle had the superior Ryu... But Choi's fireball spacing... Dear Gods!!! I've never seen anything like that before!

[@sack943]

I want to hear an interview with daigo he seemed to be off or he just doesn't understand how to play evil ryu I wonder and this is pure speculation would he have gone farther with ryu I guess we will never know

[@Saturnize7]

He played that pretty well. Umehara was dropping a lot of combos lol.

[@jooman68]

Wowwww what a blow up! Good shizzle!

[@Un1234l]

A lot of commenters in here are foolish in thinking that this is Daigo playing at his full potential, or John Choi for that matter; even more foolish, people are making grand conclusions off of one small bad set/day. There's a reason why Daigo is the #1 ranked player in the Japanese USF4 leaderboards with E. Ryu as his main character, and unfortunately he didn't get to show the crowd at EVO the reason why. Not saying results would be any different if both played to their capacity, but we'd have gotten a much better match better representing both players' actual skill level.

[@anthonygamer]

What the hell are you talking about? Full potential? Played to their capacity? What is this, Dragonball Z? Look, Daigo tried his best, dropped combos, made mistakes, and got bodied. It's that simple.

[@Un1234l]

This is a competitive match, an international tournament. Full potential and playing to one's capacity applies here, believe it or not. My answer was simple as well: this match is not a good representation of both players' actual skill level.

[@maximusmeridius5705]

Un1234l Daigo grinds daily playing Street Fighter, Choi doesn't play it much at all anymore. You're correct, obviously Choi is the superior player and has MUCH more potential (sarcasm). No, your statement is inaccurate. Had you said Daigo would've had a much better chance using Ryu as he's used it for years, you'd be correct.

[@Un1234l]

Maximus Meridius He most likely would have, as Ryu is a much simpler character to use and therefore harder to fuck up when using him. It's obvious here that Daigo was missing hard combos and punishes he gets consistently in the arcades and got flustered as a result. With E. Ryu being a glass cannon, a high risk/high reward character, not being on-point was really costly.

[@mangobay3245]

Un1234l Evil only has 50 less health.... (less stun too but that didnt play a role here). So how is he glass cannon compared to ryu?

[@kssioguita]

Daigo, Infiltration, Xian, Xiao Hai, Tokido, PR Balrog.... They'll all be watching some amazing matches from the audience on Sunday.

[@ignfan4life]

Is Filipino Champ about to play Alioune in the background?

[@MarcosSSRN]

good prevails... never forget that Daigo!

[@steven2real18]

Another thing to remember when thinking about the Ryu vs Evil Ryu comparison is that Sako (probably the most successful Evil Ryu) would not use Evil Ryu against Ryu. I use to hope he would use Evil Ryu vs. Daigo's Ryu, but he would always switch to Ibuki.

[@workoutfanatic7873]

I've never seen Daigo not jump in once at another plasma chucker. The RESPEKT!!

[@YTYogaFlame24]

Yo Art you hit Max CPM!

[@600baller]

WTF John Choi dropped combos everywhere and still won? Comeon!

[@meu02136]

"It is my noble right" - John Choi

[@kidstechno]

Funny how Daigo the year before talked about how playing Ryu is an expression of himself, then decides to main change to a supposed higher tier character and proceeds to get bodied by a Ryu. Fricken hypocrit man. Should have just played Yun again, he looked so unsure of himself. Oh well. New game, new rules.

[@Un1234l]

He spoke about this in an interview with 4Gamers (round table with other top Japanese players). Great read, recommend reading it all. Excerpt: *_4Gamer:_*_ I see. May we all assume that you will be using Evil Ryu for Evo 2014 and in the future?_ *_Daigo:_*_ I suppose. At first I wanted to alternate between Evil Ryu and regular Ryu, but the more I played the more I realized that Evil Ryu is in all respects a superior version to Ryu. In the future, the only matchup where Ryu is more enjoyable to play is against Balrog (Claw). From now on, I'll probably stick with Evil Ryu._

[@joshwon4291]

Un1234l So he chose a superior character. Then OP's point still stands.

[@Un1234l]

Josh Won No, the point is that Daigo feels Ryu is an expression of himself. Evil Ryu is Ryu but better, so Daigo chose Evil Ryu since he's an expression of himself (Ryu but better).

[@joshwon4291]

Un1234l Lolwat. 'Ryu but better': their playstyles are very different. Unless Ryu was always about cr.mk FADC (which Daigo doesn't even use), that's bullshit. E Ryu is not better than Ryu in the areas that defined him: cr.mk OS, fireball, building meter, AA, easy comboable super and ultra. You're projecting here: he's tierwhoring and nothing wrong with that.

[@Un1234l]

Josh Won I'm not projecting anything: I'm just summarizing Daigo's thoughts from the information he gave us, hence "Daigo feels [...]".

[@MrGrizmint]

somehow arrow is always in the background

[@Schryd]

entertaining as usual

[@MaximusDread]

Daigo playing Evil Ryu like regular Ryu in that match. At 2:04 Daigo did a whiff punish low forward into fireball but didn't FADC combo to win the round. Yeah both players weren't doing big combos but Ryu doesn't have to do a lot of work to hurt E.Ryu. Solar plexus > DP is almost 20% of E.Ryu health. A solid Ryu can hurt E.Ryu with just fundamentals alone.

[@game4life12]

Young Choi activated!

[@DillonHinx]

fchamp at the end was the best part of this match.

[@HDREconomist]

That match was surprisingly sloppy from both players. So much food left on the table on both sides. Credit goes out to John though for preventing Daigo from making what would have been his 6th(!) consecutive top 8 in SF4. Hopefully this gets Daigo to realize he really needs to travel more. He's too focused on the Japanese meta for this game and wasn't ready for other approaches like he had been in the past.

[@SethonanGaming]

hey I didn't upload this

[@BACCHUS777]

Next Evo we will see Daigo using Evil Ryu at full potential, he will have much more experience-tournament experience which he clearly lacked in the relative short period of learning.

[@HereComesBatman]

Daigo's friend obviously

[@JoshT4life]

So many drops by Daigo. I hope he switches back to Ryu

[@xbatusai]

He beat Daigo with Daigo, John basically played using same Daigo style

[@TobyBurt]

But John has been around the block man, it's like John was playing SFII Style and Daigo made simple execution mistakes that cost him rounds while forgetting he was playing SF4.

[@mangobay3245]

Anthony Burt I don't think Daigo "forgot to play SF4". I think he just missed out on TONS of damage on multiple occasions. Maybe his E.Ryu execution isn't there yet

[@TobyBurt]

PinkFloydShineOn Yeah, they both dropped almost everything rofl. I bet Daigo has recently found a woman or Hearthstone and the Kripp Effect is now active.

[@mangobay3245]

I thought hes been married for a while

[@coreypnorris]

THANK YOU BASED ART!

[@ryandavis4785]

Daigo is still the most skilled player. Alex is my favorite player, but I root for Daigo as well. He is already the GOAT, and will probably be back stronger next year. It has to be hard for him at EVO with everyone rooting against him in the background, but that is a testament to his mental toughness.

[@DKMeng]

You can't down play fundamentals. Someone should compare this match to the Valle match to show what went wrong even though Valle connected his combos while john didn't.

[@protonjones54]

This looks like a casuals match with how both dudes played this match

[@GoldenHairAngel]

Beautiful Street Fighter II fight