The Rise and Fall of the DCEU

In this episode, we're hitting the rewind button to discuss the Rise and Fall of the DCEU! Also, start building your own USS Enterprise today at an7b.short.gy/...
With the DCEU era coming to an end with Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, we are taking a look back at the now abandoned universe to discuss what went right and where it went terribly wrong. It's an interesting case study for future world builders, so lets get into it!
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#DCEU #dcuniverse

[@variant]

Start building your own USS Enterprise today at an7b.short.gy/Variant_StarTrekUS

[@kingshadow8782]

Well done!

[@kingshadow8782]

👏🏻😎

[@paulpierre4895]

They had a good run lol bro 😮😊😊

[@chuchmaster23]

I feel like aqua man success was also cus of the visuals kinda felt like I was watching avatar for a bit lol

[@hyped-up-charlie]

Honestly I hated Ben Affleck as Batman to me that's bvs movie was the worst ever. I actually liked suicide squad part 1

[@DahGabriel-gk2cr]

I think if most of the DC animated movies were live action instead it would have been a success.

[@dom2760]

i don't think so, maybe.

[@DahGabriel-gk2cr]

@@dom2760 What do you mean you don't think so have you even watched the animated movies.

[@nate8604]

@@DahGabriel-gk2cryeah, their animated movies have been pretty 🔥 over the years. Waaayyy more good than bad, even great.

[@Reacher0613]

They should have just taken the New52Verse animated movies and made them into live action versions

[@dylanlee5342]

The animated movies were all better than their crap live action. Man of steel and aqua were probably the ones that got the better performance ratings

[@RichardChave-xl9yw]

The DCEU's downfall was that it published a reading list of trade paperbacks they expected you to read before seeing the movies in order to understand them properly. People just don't do this, if anything a movie may inspire someone to read the book it's based on. No one is going to pay a couple of hundred bucks on graphic novels before going to see a movie they may not even enjoy.

[@smashbro67]

I would argue 2018 and 2019 was the height of the superhero film industry, since half of the Marvel and DC films that came out around that time made over a billion (Black Panther, Infinity War, Aquaman, Captain Marvel, Endgame, Far From Home, Joker). And while the other half didn’t make a billion, they still did very well at the box office. (Deadpool 2, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Teen Titans Go to the Movies, Venom, Shazam, Into the Spider-Verse). The only exception being Dark Phoenix, which isn’t surprising.

[@ii-mp1sp]

Marvel, Arrowverse and DC animated films reached their peak then. And Snydercut and Spider-Man crossover summed up, now the genre is blowing away just like slashers and westerns, you won't be surprised by this anymore.

[@Bodyfitcph]

Good movies aint about making money.. its about making good movies.

[@matthewclark4887]

There was a rise?

[@hamiltonfan3252]

That's what I said

[@calvinl5726]

Yeah there was

[@calvinl5726]

​@@hamiltonfan3252there was

[@w.hendrixx]

MAN OF STEEL, WONDER WOMAN, AND AQUAMAN

[@om58499]

@@w.hendrixxthat just sad

[@Chewzy_CEO]

The flash being in suicide squad wasn’t a issue with consistency because injustice league the flash says I haven’t really done this before. I’ve only pushed people and ran away so he had encountered criminals and deterred and detained them. He just hadn’t battled or had to actively fight

[@davidw.2791]

Also that’s Joss Whedon’s rewrite. We definitely see Barry save people out of car crashes, and that can still fit with him creaming Boomerang. Then in ZSJL we see him be prudently nervous when seeing multiple parademons and the Boss Steppenwolf. - In fact, in the Snyder Cut, he only ever kills one (1) Parademon.

[@Jamiesonfrox]

That was a fantastic recap, but I have to say I went through so many emotions during that video went through the excitement of man of steel to the bummed out of justice league to the anger of what happened afterwards and then back to the apathy made me sad

[@Prathik1989]

there was no rise lol

[@LittleMan27]

At least we knew were the MCU was headed. They weren’t doing the story too much too fast, as they were slowly introducing us to characters, the multiverse and even the big bad (until Majors was found guilty). We do know Marvel Studios going to release everything they announced (Bob Iger made them push out Phase 4 too fast), and that Kang was (idk about now) supposed to comeback from his quantum energy core as The Beyonder while we got acquainted with new heroes, the multiverse and it’s collapse.

[@skymanxd6366]

WB were just rushing tbh, they were just too worried about Marvel rather than just being patient and doing your own thing

[@LittleMan27]

@@skymanxd6366 Exactly. Let the big 4 have a solo movie first (Superman, Batman, Aquaman & Wonder Woman) before Justice League

[@skymanxd6366]

@@LittleMan27 what’s crazy is that Snyder had a Batman movie in plan, it was supposed to take place before Batman v Superman and the villain was supposed to be Deathstroke, what I find annoying is that people blame Snyder for the Shit DCEU Movies when the worst movies weren’t even made by Snyder but the best movies in the DCEU were, Birds of Prey, Suicide Squad, WW84, Flash, were all movies that some people hated but Man Of Steel and the OG JL were beloved

[@ralphspradley7988]

@@skymanxd6366 that and they hired Zack Snyder

[@ralphspradley7988]

@@skymanxd6366 flash had issues but I enjoyed it way more then 84, birds of prey, suicide squad…

[@dohc1067]

Imo, the latest Superman and Lois iteration is one of the most successful things to come from DC. Each show feels like a movie in itself. Interesting dialog, characters, and action.

[@JJizz23]

Right on man Supes & Lois is definitely an acceptable adaptation

[@Y2JFan94]

Tyler is the best Superman

[@nemesisprime4501]

The batman is also a successful movie coming from DC

[@megamegaO]

Nah...the animated movies are a whole mess themselves...it just needs to have ONE FOCUS

[@JJizz23]

@@megamegaO 🤣🤣🤣

[@YoungYahtz94]

Man…there’s so much I’ve been wanting to say about the DCEU for the past 10 years. It’s been hard being a DC fan for the past decade. It finally ending feels like a weight has been lifted

[@DjSsaBackward]

For years, I've been telling DC hardcore fans, Zacks direction was prolonging the explosion that Marvel fans enjoyed. Hopefully, Gunn will do much better. Although, I'm not convinced based on James's first work at DC so far. Most of all, wish he'd kept Cavill.

[@TheEdorizo]

I've been a DC fan over 40 years

[@DjSsaBackward]

@TheEdorizo it's only been since Batman vs. Superman, that's been bad. I thoroughly enjoyed Man of Steele backward, with a few Batman exceptions.

[@geeebuttersnap2433]

@@DjSsaBackwardZack dropped the ball on BvS, should have done Batman year one, I know Batman begins basically covered that, but you can’t tell me that setting up a Batman origin story in a shared universe would not have kicked ass in the box office. Or basically if instead of BvS, you did the Robert Patterson film and have that be the second film in the DCEU it wouldn’t have made a killing. The third film be Wonder Woman. Done a flash film with grant gustin that is more lore accurate to the comics rather then the cw show (of course it would require the tv show to end prematurely, but honestly I don’t think anyone would mind). Do an aqua man film, and green lantern film. Then do Batman vs Superman: worlds finest film, that features Wonder Woman, flash, aqua man, and green lantern, then do a justice league film where Orm is the big bad and Aqua man gets help from the other heroes which forms the justice League. This would parallel the making of the Avengers and the MCU, where they built up the threat of Thanos. DCEU should have done the opposite by making a new gods movie where Darkseid goes around conquering planets while searching for the anti life equation. Have it be like a horror movie, darkseid just killing anyone who opposes him, the film ends with him getting the equation then setting out to test it on a worthy opponent. After that have sequels to each heroes movies with different villains. Superman 1 villains could still be Zod, Batman 1 villain could still be penguin or just the criminal element, wonder woman’s villain could still be ares (but have it end in a twist where ares says that he did nothing to influence the fighting in WW1, the truth is that humanity deep down has the innate desire for conflict, the uncontrollable urge to destroy itself, and how Wonder Woman was not so much fighting Ares as she was fighting the human condition of mutually assured destruction) that way when Steve Trevor sacrifices himself Wonder Woman while devastated by Trevors death, she still has hope that while humanity may have the capacity for violence and such cruelty, there are also people who will give their lives for love, for doing what is right, this inspires Wonder Woman to keep fighting for love and peace in mans world where it is needed the most. The flash film could be an origin story, an anthology where all his rogue gallery is introduced. The green lantern film could be an origin film that is like the animated green lantern first flight movie, except where sinestro is starting to become more corrupted, but have him and Hal Jordon become actual friends, that way the inevitable betrayal is more impactful, introduce more of the other lantern corps and the man hunters (post credit scene is the man hunters are hacked by brainiac for experimentation) . Aqua man sequel would be about black manta intentionally polluting the oceans to target Atlantis in an underwater bio terrorist attack. This film could have street level villains from Gotham, Metropolis, Coast City, Central City, Star City, acting as goons for Manta. Build these characters up and introduce more fan favorite characters like Green Arrow, Black Canary, Huntress, Martian Man hunter, Captain Marvel (Shazam), Batman’s sidekicks and give them struggles and character development that way the audience loves them. Then have brainiac come in with his man hunters to test out the justice league, after they are good and tired, brainiac deals the finishing blow by releasing Doomsday, after an intense battle Superman is able to put doomsday down, but dies in the process. The justice league and the world mourns Superman’s death and all who were lost when Darkseid comes in, using the anti life equation, resurrects both doomsday and Superman for his will. This essentially counts as a check mate for the dc universe. Enter in cosmic characters like Dr fate, John Constantine, Zatara, swamp thing, and etrigan. The next film will be titled Justice League Dark. This entitles dc magic users get the normal justice league characters into a pocket dimension away from Darkseid forces and they plan on how to defeat Darkseid (yeah, earth is devastated, humanity is enslaved if not outright killed off, Darkseid holds Lois in stasis as bargaining chip over Superman should he ever break out of his mind control state. The other justice league characters realize that the only way to get the power to stop Darkseid is by hoping around other universes and build up an army of alternate superheroes. Enter the endgame scenario with the multiverse where Darkseid glimpses the multiverse and peers into a universe that so happens to be the MCU. But it’s just a tease, it’s not going there in this hypothetical scenario. All that I came up with on the spot. Took about a half hour to think up them type. It won’t happen but I fell it is much better than what Warner brothers approved and what DC produced. On that note, If the MCU and DCEU had done a cross over movie in this hypothetical world, I would have named it Infinity crisis on multiverses.

[@DanielGoldMcduckRose]

@@geeebuttersnap2433if business would let creators do magic it would be fine. They had a whole schedule planned out yet ruined everything by rushing everything Gunn will do fine since the bar is so low.

[@knightdriven4202]

It's crazy how in the film industry, making 300m off a film isn't considered that much

[@MrManiac2591]

depends on the film. What is the initial budget, how much are you spending on advertising, etc.

[@tombondcrispy6585]

Ceo's get greedy 🤷‍♂️

[@DualityUnlimited]

Each company has its own brand of accounting. Some are better at Marketing than others. Some of the Films he listed aren’t actually busts from an Accounting or General Film basis. All of them except the ones listed as Hits, underperformed vs expectations but that doesn’t make them necessarily a Flop.

[@Keverything99]

@@tombondcrispy6585nothing to do with that it’s the fact the budgets are usually up close to 200 million plus they share profits with theatres & need to spend at least half the budget for marketing

[@cosmicjojo2159]

Dude you gotta think all the money they have to make back after spending so much on advertising, paying the actors the producers and the film crew.

[@SuperAz1981]

How could you do a Nightwing movie if you already killed off Dick Grayson

[@davidw.2791]

Snyder was being artsy and coy and he never spelled out loud that it was Dick. I’m pretty sure the first verbal confirmation of It Was Dick was way after the Hopeful Rumblings Of A Planned Nightwing Movie came out. Then, the Nightwing movie could have come out and if Zack Snyder was any sort of cooperative artist, he would change any name drops in Justice League 2, the same way James Wan was allowed to let the Atlantians speak English without Airbender Pockets.

[@josephatherley]

Snyders plan was never supposed to be a full cinematic universe like the mcu. It was supposed to be basically a self contained story like nolans batman, but bigger. It was supposed to end with a flashpoint rebooting everything. Then the suits got involved and changed things because they wanted a mcu like universe

[@davidw.2791]

The other directors can cram as many spinoff solo films as they like. The only loss is Batman after JL3.

[@SuperAz1981]

You kind of hit the nail on the head BvS started.the downfall it was to divisive a film and even Snyder said he was doing an experimental film with it. Plus he even said he wasnt competing with Marvel he just wanted to film what he thought looked cool. But even the box office failures after the General Audience left did higher audience scores then Snyders films. So they were going in the right direction with the lightening the tone but had no direction and like you said Snyders plans was basically fibe movies then do a Flash Point reset and make it the next guys problem to compete with Marvel

[@brianng8350]

Well, that is one of the problems, WB wanted a director that would compete with MCU and Zack Snyder just wanted to have fun - play with known IP. These are different visions.

[@chicomac8450]

What’s wild is that everyone hated Snyder years ago for what he did to BvS.. Then after JOSS-tice League, everyone worshiped Snyder. Never understood it.

[@ghost_kinggamer]

He's still trash

[@chicomac8450]

@@ghost_kinggamer yep.

[@kylecollins3755]

Man of Steel is the most underrated hero movie of all time. It was incredible and Henry Cavill deserved better.

[@schadenfreude6274]

People like you are the reason why the DCEU has failed so badly. :)

[@raptorrancher]

@@schadenfreude6274dumb.

[@zaberfang]

He deserves a better script. He himself wanted to leave DCEU way before Justice League was even shot

[@Ivar97]

Underated hero movie of all time? Really? Like of all of cinematic history?

[@nate8604]

I enjoyed it. What made me believe Henry Cavill was Superman, was that scene when he destroyed the world engine, the music, along with his acting, that was a Superman moment. But A LOT of fans HATED the darker tone Zack Snyder went with, and bashed it to no end. The DCEU was doomed from the very beginning, Batman V. Superman didn’t help, along with Justice League, either one of those two movies were the nail in the coffin for the DCEU.

[@chidieberenwadike4165]

Zack snyder didn't have a slate in the first place, he had a five movie story arc and it was up to the writers and directors to lead up the story. I hate when people keep referring the DCEU as the "Snyderverse"

[@elijahkems602]

That's true, and the fact that at the time DC didn't have its own studio like marvel did 😮

[@juniorjr9011]

His Superman movie was trash. Such a shame for Henry Cavill

[@chidieberenwadike4165]

@@juniorjr9011 Bruh that's your loss, and the fact is Henry loved the film and character.

[@davidw.2791]

His 5 films does not prohibit any spin offs apart from Batman films post-JL3; but if Ben Affleck was ok with the whole old & cranky and beaten down Batman take, then I say we repect that and cope-&-seethe in private. 😅

[@chidieberenwadike4165]

@@davidw.2791 What you said did not make sense

[@ZedGarbiel05]

I think it's better for DC superhero characters to be animated than live-action adaptation

[@nachovichoZX]

I don't agree with you 100 percent, but DC always does very well with animation.

[@artfire28]

DCAU have better writers and directors than the DCEU. Bruce Timm was the tru pioneer.

[@mayotango1317]

Many say that about Marvel before the MCU.

[@chidieberenwadike4165]

DC still has potential for LA, it's just WB can't let everyone has creative freedom and butchering their work

[@elliottjames671]

U crazy

[@jdino3517]

Great video. So much potential they had but hopefully James Gunn brings it. DC has so many great stories to bring to big screen.

[@deathwish02]

They're trying to make the DCEU like the MCU where everyone making jokes at the most serious situation and making it R12

[@omegamaximus1727]

Now if I were in charge of the DC Cinematic Universe here is how I would structure it : 1. Superman Solo Movie 2. Superman Sequel that introduces Supergirl and The Flash 3. Solo Batman Movie that introduces both Batman ,Robin and Batgirl. 4. Solo Wonder Woman 5. Justice League with the addition of Martian Manhunter , Green Lantern, and Hawkgirl. That would be Phase 1 .

[@omegamaximus1727]

Here’s Phase 2 1. Teen Titans 2. Doom Patrol 3. Batman Death in the Family/Introduction and Death of Jason Todd 3.2. Nightwing Solo Movie 3.3. Batman and Robin the New Dynamic Duo/Introduction of Tim 3.4 Batman Under The Red Hood/Ressurection of Jason Todd. 3. 5Solo Green Lantern Movie 4. Justice League sequel that introduces Brainiac . 5. Shazam Movie with Black Adam as the main villain. 6 Justice League Dark/Magical side of the DC Universe 7. Justice League Throne of Atlantis.

[@omegamaximus1727]

Phase Three of the DC Cinematic Universe: 1. New Gods/ Introduction of Darkseid 2. Teen Titans The Judas Contract 3. Suicide Squad 4. The Metal Men 5. Blue Beetle and Booster Gold Team Up Movie. 6. Death of Superman 7. Reign of Superman 9. Return of Superman 10 . Teen Titans/Doom Patrol The Brotherhood of Evil 11. Teen Titans/Justice League Crossover with Trigon as the main villain. 12. Justice League : Legion of Doom 13 Green Lantern: Lantern War 14 .Justice League Darkseid War Part 1 15. Justice League Darkseid War part 2

[@omegamaximus1727]

DC Phase 4 1. Young Justice 2.Static Shock 3. Batman Beyond

[@chrisgrech7992]

Fortunately you aren't, Thanks to the Gods for that. The most successful character in DCEU you leave him out. that is Aquaman. Even the sequel which wasn't at the level of the first and hardly had any marketing, shows that the character is well received by audiences worldwide. You put in MMH, GL(who flopped big time) and Hawkgirl who hardly anyone knows about, except comic readers. Also Superman works in an origin story afterwards people lose interest in the character, We had some 9 movies with Superman, except the first two all performed below expectations.

[@JJ91939]

One does not kill off The Batman.

[@JJ91939]

I meant to add “simply” lol

[@droga5262]

why don't the other live action batmen count? or is it just forced hate against Snyder?

[@casualgamerthatsucks6576]

They should have done a Batman movie. That would have done really well too along with the Man of Steel and Wonder Woman. They should have done a trilogy movies for Wonder Woman, Batman, and Superman. This then leads up to BvS but without Doomsday in it.

[@chibu3212]

I would have structured the first chapter like this: Man of Steel Wonder Woman Man of Steel II Suicide Squad (Ayer Cut) Then split Batman v Superman in two films. One focused exclusively on the fight between Batman and Superman( with Metallo as the villain), and the second half involving the Trinity fighting Lex, Joker, Circe, and Doomsday. Tease the Superman and Batman fight throughout the phase, like Thanos in Phase 1

[@casualgamerthatsucks6576]

Tbh I think it's too early to put the suicide squad in before putting on at least one Batman movie. I think the first chapter should really flesh out the intros to the Trinity. Something like Suicide Squad should be out at least after BvS. But that's imo

[@chibu3212]

@casualgamerthatsucks6576 I would add it as a breather so everything isn’t just the Trinity in the first chapter but I see where you’re coming from though. The Dark Knight Rises was still really recent so I think they could have skipped doing a Batman solo film (like what the MCU did with Spider-Man)

[@casualgamerthatsucks6576]

Ohh that makes sense, something to add now just so it can be there to setup something in the future chapters or something. Im down with that actually. I can see what your saying about the dark night rises being recent and all. But they may just treat it like an else worlds thing, or maybe introduce him in one of the Superman movies first? Idk.

[@nemesisprime4501]

Man of steel The Batman Green lantern corps Batman/Superman world's finest Wonder woman Justice league Instead of batman fighting superman, I imagine them working together like the animated movie public enemies

[@AmericanGypsy206]

Here’s a fun fact back in December me and my friends went and seen the iron claw. It was refreshing to see a movie in theaters for the first time in years that wasn’t about a superhero because these days a lot of studios are just releasing movies to streaming services because they’re afraid that nobody’s going to pay big prices to see them in theaters like they would for a superhero movie

[@A1KX100]

DC animated universe is/was 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 wish they concentrated more on that.

[@StareachValcin]

I honestly think that the dceu was doomed from the start due to the poor mishandling of Superman's character by a director who simply doesn't understand who Superman is and what he stands for. Zack was just the wrong director for Superman and DC in general.

[@RewMec226]

But if he was comics accurate how was he mishandled?

[@StareachValcin]

​@@RewMec226 Superman wasn't accurate to the comics in this universe, so he was still mishandled.

[@filmgoblin5016]

Yeah cus James Gunn clearly understands superman better and is going to make a better and more successful movie than MoS 😂

[@nemesisprime4501]

Exactly. Snyder didn't really understood all the dc characters. He tried to make every justice league brooding (except for flash) which is mostly batmans thing. Nothing against ben affleck but casting an old batman with a younger superman didn't sit well with me. And snyder telling us that we are living in a dream because of batmans no kill rule. I would have most likely Said that I'm quite wide awake

[@filmgoblin5016]

@@nemesisprime4501 James Gunn is going to do the same shit having a young Superman and older Batman. So are you also not fine with that?

[@RyanLBrown9396]

They shouldn’t have involved Snyder in the first place. But WB was so hell bent on catching marvel

[@elijahkems602]

They need a direction and a studio of it's own.

[@kerry-j4m]

AGREED. And trying to catch up with Marvel is the 2nd biggest mistake WB made. Just should've made-QUALITY-films first,then connect them to a DCEU universe.

[@bigblueboyscout1]

Nothing pained me more than Henry Cavill returning to Superman and seeing him in Black Adam only to lose the role altogether. I could cry how disappointed I was. Henry Cavill was easily one of the best parts of the DCEU. 😭

[@GeekOwtLowd]

The DCEU had a "rise"?

[@LiilJiimmii]

I literally just had this thought and looked down to see your comment

[@shiebler2]

You guys should do a top ten list on the best comic book events of the year

[@theintrovertguy4337]

I can not sleep at night simply just thinking about Jason Momoa not playing LOBO yet.

[@Foxtrot222]

Thank you for mentioning that Zack had a plan, but Warner Bros messed everything up 19:09

[@tonyraju631]

Warner Bros improvised More because Snyder's Interpretation failed from the start

[@connorwood9211]

And that plan sounded awful

[@Lavolpeengreece]

I like that almost every one agrees that the place the DCEU started to go wrong was BVS . It was putting the cart way before the horse. Wish we could’ve gotten a proper Man of Steel sequel.

[@tyleroutland435]

I loved Aquarman and the lost kingdom

[@jamalvargas6146]

Even Back Then I Was More Of Arrowverse Guy even though the shows were woke, had awful CGI, bastardized key characters, and didn't make money for The CW I still had fun with It for what It was don't judge me

[@shadowmarauder6033]

Blue beetle was excellent & I honestly hope they retcon it to the new DC film universe

[@SubwoofBarks]

6:55 Batman definitely killed people in the Nolan verse. He blew up dozens of ninjas in the mountains after refusing to kill just one. Then there was Ras al Ghul: "I don't have to save you".

[@petermj1098]

lol Zack Snyder really allowed Batman to hold a gun while the DC Trinity stand next together.

[@pooyashirazi1991]

You lost me at 'Henry Cavill is the best live-action Superman to date'. Despite him being a lovely guy and a good actor, his portrayal of the Man of Steel was as far removed from the character as it could be. A soulless, almost robotic alien, feeling nothing but the weight of responsibility this meager planet has put upon his shoulders.

[@tyleroutland435]

I loved Shazam Fury of the gods way more than the first one

[@49ers_red_and_gold2]

Superman snapping necks is dope 😅

[@jonasquinn7977]

While the Snyder cut is infinitely better than Josstice League it’s still just…okay in my opinion.

[@joosa183]

I find it funny how they can do really well with their animated movies but with their live action movies they flop in some way shape or form when if they looked at how well the animated movies did they could just use that as a way to help them make it either just as good as the animated movie was or make it similar in a way

[@b3productions974]

People always say the Snyder Cut was his "Original Vision" but he had years to look at feedback and see what people wanted so...

[@quentinfogger5755]

Is the Blue_Beetle movie really part of the DCEU since the events of that movie is going to be part of the Booster_Gold series on HBO Max which is in the DCU?

[@elijahkems602]

It's good that's its so far off from the DCEU that it can easily be integrated into the new DCU,

[@michaeldavis2001]

Superman killing Zod in the comics had an impact BECAUSE Superman doesn't kill! Snyder was in TOO MUCH of a hurry to have Superman kill! Likewise, he couldn't wait to have BATMAN using guns (just as he stated that HIS Batman could be raped in prison). He NEEDED to squeeze 'The Dark Knight Returns', 'A Death in the Family', 'The Death of Superman', 'The Return of Superman' and the origin of the Justice League all in one movie, because Zach Snyder doesn't know restraint! Why not the entire Lord of the Rings in an hour?

[@Jyakotu]

What was interesting to me was that, in terms of live action TV shows, DC was knocking it out of the park with gems like “Gotham” and the Arrowverse, but I wondered why the DCEU couldn’t get it right. It felt like at a certain point, all live action DC films should have just been their own thing with subtle references to past films if they wanted to connect them. That’s why it was better to stick to the animated DC movies and the Arrowverse at the time.

[@BrandonTBlackwell]

Blame Woker Bros.

[@dom2760]

Thank You, DCEU was a HOT MESS. All over the place. Rushed for no reason. They should of just left Man of Steel a stand alone film. Chasing MCU was a bad idea. No reason to even do this. If they just wanted WB would be eating right now.

[@kira-dk2mx]

Batman v Superman: Rush to the Justice League! Sums up the DCEU in a nutshell. God bless you Honest Trailers.

[@vitorhq1]

Besides all executive interference, the original Snyder vision was terrible. Snyder has real issues while creating narratives or writing characters, it's like he never moved from that 14 yrs old 90's mentality. He tried to play a so diverse tone universe like DC in one single note... Dark. Which works perfectly for some characters but others are the completely opposite.

[@BrandonTBlackwell]

As if you could do any better. It's sounds so easy when you're typing away on your garbage phone and that extraordinarily small brain of yours. Zack Synder could make better content than you with eyes closed.

[@TheRazter]

You missed a lot of parts on Zack Snyder's JL plan, like JL part 3 and ending actually on Flashpoint (Jay Oliva confirmed) but oh well...

[@anakinSkyhopper91]

He seems intentionally leaving out key points that went on within the studio vs Snyders plans

[@TheRazter]

@@anakinSkyhopper91 unfortunately it kinda seems like it, and I love Arris... Probably so that the "cultists" don't burn him alive. We all know that yes there is a small toxic part of our fandom, but we also don't like them. He might not know what the actual plan is, but idk, he's a comic book fan too, so...

[@rikudoubapeck]

@@anakinSkyhopper91 Exactly. The DCEU's biggest issues come from Warner execs and he should have given more attention to them. He did the first Suicide Squad film no justice in his evaluation

[@anakinSkyhopper91]

@@rikudoubapeck I wholeheartedly agree. None of the offscreen stuff that led to these horrible takes and basically licked Gunns and Safrans boots

[@martinwinter615]

Killing Zod was never the problematic scene for me but kissing Lois while people still dying that was a problem.

[@slayer45670]

There both a problem

[@HalJordan661]

Whole MoS was a problem

[@brianng8350]

Symbolic of the priorities of Zack Snyder and WB - cool shot, but dumb for the movie; style over substance. That is why the franchise failed.

[@martinwinter615]

@raoul.__.r3363 LOL yeah people just stopped dying sure

[@SuCKeRPunCH187]

annihilating half of metropolis was also a problem.

[@otakumarcus]

This was a really great (albeit, compressed) review of every DCEU film since you haven’t done those in ages which was shifted to the Podcasts. I really do miss those reviews. However, let this be a lesson to all: Don’t rush the story & don’t change the tone of character just because it worked for a different character.

[@rashadlewis8345]

What rise?😅

[@Ouch_007]

I still remember how excited I was after watching the trailer of Man of Steel in 2012 and it created so much anticipation in me for the movie. and in 2013 when the movie was released, it totally did worth. Watched it few times in theatre then. I was so excited for upcoming DC movies that time, but one by one so much dud happened. Still hoped for a man of Steel 2 for a very long time, but then they Terminated Cavill and killed that hope. 'Hope' which was a symbol of Superman.

[@generalj216]

10:30 “I’ve never done battle. I’ve just pushed some people and run away.” That’s literally what happened in suicide squad

[@andlol2558]

Man I can't agree with you more, such a great video 👏

[@alfredborden5675]

6:55 Balebat literally shot Talia's driver in The Dark Knight Rises.

[@emmanuelmakulika9730]

The original villain for bvs was Metalo however the script was leaked to the mouse house hence the change of the final boss

[@alexandersparrowheart1066]

They hired Affleck and Eisenberg aaaand mimosa

[@SynRequiem]

I remember walking into BvS with my cousin, being so hype for this new DCEU. When we left the theater all we could do was shout “Marthaaaaa”

[@davidw.2791]

I’d shudder to think how you had reacted to Winter Soldier

[@DadRockProject]

Lets not lean on those RT Critics scores though...

[@microphonejacket]

I LUUUUVED Aquaman!!! I'm hoping the 2nd is good. Aquaman is the most beautiful superhero I've ever seen.

[@rds00799]

WB created the downfall of DCEU wanting to copy Marvel and their kid comedy tone. Nolan gave the blueprint with his Batman movies, Snyder had the same tone roadmap, and WB Studios ended it all.

[@unlimitedcosmicspeed]

Agree 100% :) As for Aquaman 2, I will see it. I am not looking for a masterpiece, just entertainment, plenty of cgi and escape reality for a couple of hours, I will be happy :)

[@theokeithjones318]

@Variant everything you say is absolutely correct I'm not a DC fan I'm a Marvel fan and what you have to say is completely true. you hit the point. Just be careful because you do have Zack Snyder fans will comment your channel say some negative s***

[@RegalPixelKing]

Don't think you could ever say that the DCEU ever had a "rise" I think it came out flailing around like a fish out of water with the lukewarm at best Man of Steel and have that be followed with the awful Batman v Superman. If I were to rank every DCEU movie here's what it would be: 1) The Suicide Squad 2) Everything else Having James Gunn lead the DCU is the smartest move that Warner Bros. has made in a long time.

[@Albert-x8g]

They rushed it. No communication and good collaboration. They made Shazam a complete joke, wonder woman sequel was completely ridiculous. They made questionable casting choices (Ezra miller being a big example) Zach snuder completely missed the point of batman and superman and cared more about eye candy than good story telling, suicide squad movies weren't really great, okay, but not great. Doomsday was a heavy hitter and they made him to be a cheap big bad early on. I remember the days when people online were convinced that it would rival and perhaps even exceed the mcu.That aged like milk.

[@vuongn2318]

Zack gave us a fresh look at Superman. All the Superman stuff in the past showed the audience that the world loves him, but what about when he first showed himself as Superman? The quote "People hate what they don’t understand" is 100% on the money. Bruce's warped mindset let him down a path of violence and destruction, but when an alien sacrificed himself to a Zod's abomination for the greater good that showed Bruce that hope was still alive. The biggest downfall of the DCEU wasn't Zack, but WB themselves looking for a quick and easy buck. I believe if Zack was still DC's version of Kevin Feige then the DCEU would've thrived

[@vuongn2318]

Also I firmly believe that BvS: UE was shot in multiple POV to show you what everyone was doing at each specific time. “Bruce is the world’s greatest detective! He shouldn’t have gotten played by Luthor”; even so anger blinds us all. At the end of the day; Zack’s universe is what I love when it comes to CBM. The dark, grotty, high stakes real life consequences unlike the MCU. Thanks for reading 🤘

[@timtwoface]

It rose decently in 2013, peaked just before BvS came out in 2016, kinda spiraled downwards and then hit the ground with a thud in 2017 with Justice League. It's floundered with a few hits most mostly misses since.

[@ChristianRMaglione]

Never did I ever think the Flash would put a baby in a microwave before I saw that piece of filth movie

[@ARod3]

It’s wild how bad they fkd up Batman v Superman smh

[@wormskol]

Batman vs Superman original cut was horrible. The extended cut was SO much better. But.... both movies turn to shit when the start yelling Martha! & fighting a giant ninja turtle 🤦‍♂️

[@IAmImprintJones]

Love to hear your take on the MCU in a same titled video arris 🔥. I agreed with everything you said and it shouldn't be this way especially when you have actors WANTING to play these roles. DC can take the same route as marvel with it's own connected universe but like you said it was rushed WAY TO SOON, you have to let it all breathe taking it's time, especially with almost 100 years of source material. BvS was the problem, Batman and Superman should have never come to blows a la dark knight style in JUST THE SECOND DCEU film with waaay to many character introductions, introduce wonder woman sure and make it a Trinity movie but stacking the two biggest DC stories in history with dark knight returns and death of superman in one movie is way to much and unfortunately it dominoed everything after it. So 2025 better deliver especially after 10 years of wasted films.... that's why DC animation is better, can't wait for crisis on infinite earths the animated movie adaptation to come out next year 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 😂😂😂

[@JachzCreates]

I just want to say as a Snyder fan, I agree that Snyder's story do not work for a comic book cinematic universe, but that's because Snyder never wanted to do a connected universe; Snyder's plan was to do a 5 film arc it was WB who wanted to make his movies part of a universe and Snyder just tried his best to give the studio both. So when Arris says Snyder's plan doesn't work for the DCEU he's pretty much right cause it wasn't meant to be.

[@JayJavahar-g4t]

Zack Snyder' amesturish take and WB' s greed for Instant Money is responsible for the dynamic Sh*t show that DCEU was. MAN of Steel was Bad. All those defending it I'd Love to see them sit through the WHOLE film again. They don't lie to us. They don't. They lie to themselves- Cause they've got nothing better to love. I share your pain.

[@joemax4]

This video doesn’t get into the biggest issue enough: studio interference. The gave Snyder the ok to build a 5-movie universe, and then cut BvS to shreds in the editing room and wanted to build out a universe despite Snyder agreeing to only 5 films. That’s was the true beginning of the end.

[@jordanwhite352]

So while studio meddling was an issue, I do think that there's a nuance in this that unfortunately Snyder fans like yourself and I'm someone who enjoys his films do not understand. We have seen the rated R version of Batman v Superman and it's still incredibly sucks ass. Single one of his outline pitches for all the films. Incredibly sucked ass. I would actually argue that even though Man of steel is not a great Superman film, what probably did save it was the Nolan brothers trying to real him in. The thing about studio meddling which is what Warner Brothers sucks at is that they meddle in every single film instead of knowing when to medal and when not to medal. Problem is not that they went in and changed a bunch of stuff to Jack Snyder. It's that they should have put their foot down with Man of steel or the early development of Batman v Superman instead of doing it after he did all the damage to it. Then they overcorrected and panicked and did editing to every single thing. Basically the first suicide squad film Batman v Superman and some degree the man of steel should not have existed. What should have honestly happened and it's weird looking at James Gunn's thing is that after man of steel after hearing all the dumb operatic rooting stuff you wanted to do, I would have put him on either a film or a TV show about the authority and then let him do his own else world that is entirely the injustice video game franchise with the actual and justice branding instead of the pseudo branding they had in Batman v Superman. Warner Brothers really needs to do is be like okay. This director has this talent in this. Put them on that instead of just being like oh, they're famous. We're just going to throw them on this thing and not give an actual thought about what they're good at. Like put this way Did John wick films are amazing right? But Warner Brothers would be that studio to get the John wick director to work on fucking Martian manhunter movie with an inflated budget and have it fucking failed because that's not what that director is good at. Smart studio would be able to be like oh, the job with director wants to work with us. Instant brain farts we're going to make a cat woman spin off. Give it to him underground group of criminals. It's basically female John wick with superheroes. He's really great at that done billion dollars overnight. The operatic mopey fucking and rad Zack Snyder should have never been anywhere near Superman. There are other properties in DC like the authority that would have way lined up better with him than what Warner Brothers actually did. The same thing with fucking fantastic beasts were the other problem Warner Brothers. They had this problem with the Matrix movies too. Is that they're like? Oh, let's just have JK Rowling be in charge of everything and not realize that the JK Rowling from the '90s that made your super successful Harry Potter shit is not the same person from back then anymore. Never mind that you're getting a book writer to try to screenwrite for the first time and look at how horrific those films turned out to be.

[@amakhoekars1599]

eu gosto da abordagem do Variant Comics, de dar a sua critica e dar sugestoes de mudancas, ao inves de so criticar e nao mostrar nenhuma parte positiva dos filmes. Gostei muito dessa forma de trabalhar. Feliz natal a todos

[@christophera5055]

Snyder would never have been my choice to helm the DCEU, he’s a great director but I don’t think he was a good fit for this project. But beyond that I think WB has to bare the blame for the bulk of why things failed soo bad…too little accountability & too much inconsistency from the top. No director could have succeeded with that much incompetence in the boardroom. I’d like to hope James Gunn won’t have to deal with such antics but I won’t be surprised if he does.

[@DirkPiddlemark]

Zack fundamentally misunderstands the character of Superman so badly it doomed the entire EU.

[@Scroob69]

Should’ve just let Zack cook. We would’ve had 3 JL movies, all the solo films, and a Flashpoint movie with Reverse Flash as the finale of the DCEU

[@PhantomBulletGames]

Big facts here

[@nickjames2050]

He did cook and it tasted awful

[@thewatchman13]

@@nickjames2050You think the Flash movie was better than that plan?

[@Scroob69]

@@thewatchman13 FR. Bro had the entire film slate mapped out with REVERSE FLASH as the final villain and reboot

[@CoRektOh]

Unfortunately DCEU was the perfect storm of bad directorial vision (Snyder) and bad studio interference (WB/Zaslav). Hopefully James Gunn can do something good with this mess.

[@DillonMaynard]

Like Arris said in this video, Snyder's vision would've been much more fitting for Elseworld stuff. He has a darker style and clearly doesn't care much for the rules of the characters. His movies catered to one type of person as opposed to a general audience.

[@quentinfogger5755]

Since we never saw Hal Jordan Green Lantern and John Stewart Green Lantern in the DCEU besides the deleted scenes in the Snyder cuts, What do you think they're going to be like in live action in James Gunn DC projects in the DCU?

[@vernonleewarren280]

Man of Steel and Aquaman for me was the two best DC movies ive ever seen

[@238Brotherhood]

It would’ve been ok if they would’ve just left Zack alone tbh. Even if people thought his movies were bad. They would’ve gotten better.

[@ralphspradley7988]

People weren’t buying what he was selling. They were too dark, there was no joy in the films. And he was not building a universe. They should have fired him when MOS failed to meet expectations critically, fanwise, and financially.

[@tshegofatsoletlape8721]

Zack Snyder is the Uwe Boll of DC comic book movies.

[@Chuck_EL]

​@@ralphspradley7988 Superman should NEVER be "dark and gritty" he's the optimistic boy scout

[@rikudoubapeck]

Agreed. His critiques don't get that once he left things got so much worse and fast. Once he left then they actually started to lose money. Before they weren't making as much as they would like but even with the meddling the DCEU was still the second most sucessful cinematic universe. Zack was DCEU at it's most consistently successful. Some choices he made may have been controversial but he never actually derailed the franchise as people claim otherwise the DCEU would have ended long before AM 2 releasing this week.

[@rubbybandz]

A moment of silence for the dceu, as a fan of dc and having grown up with these movies sucked. I mean, I loved the comic books and the cartoons/animated movies. Even the games were good growing up, mostly Arkham. Having the movies go no where and never reach the true potential of dc really saddens me. I appreciate what we had, and looking back, Zack snyders story basically is an else worlds story. I’m looking forward to james gunns new universe, from what it sounds like it’s everything I’ve ever wanted in a dc cinematic universe, it’s just such a shame it couldn’t come sooner. RIP DCEU.

[@alessandroortiz379]

Zack Snyder, David Ayer and most of the cast deserve better

[@RyanLBrown9396]

What did Snyder do to deserve better

[@ItsNotLandin]

Snyder has been given chance after chance bud. He’s got an interesting eye but the man CANNOT write and it seems he refuses to find a writer. Rebel moon is another great example.

[@chimpo961]

​@@ItsNotLandin i heard Rebel Moon movie wasn't a good movie

[@MrVirtuezzz]

They need better directors than Zack Snyder

[@alessandroortiz379]

I feel like Snyder and Michael Bay are unique directors. Bays thing is explosions and Snyder thing is slo mo scenes

[@trevordavidjones]

This is probably y’all’s best video (I’ve been watching for years)

[@jason666king]

Walter Hamada needed his bonus.

[@tshegofatsoletlape8721]

Zack Snyder is the definition of failing upwards. He should quit making movies and just make Music Videos for Nickel Back.

[@JosephConway-r5y]

Make sure not to cut yourself with all that edge.

[@SemiJuggaloNumber2]

I'm an 80s kid, who grew up with both DC AND Marvel, and all I wanted was to see DC movies that could reach the same level of crowd-pleasing success as the MCU (when it was actually good). Unfortunately, while Zack Snyder's core vision for the DCEU was potentially brilliant in concept, the execution was a windy, bumpy road! Zack Snyder is a brilliant director, but I always found his versions of Superman and Batman quite 'different', to put it politely. Despite this, Henry Cavill's Superman carried Man of Steel (pun intended), while Ben Affleck's Batman was one of my favorite things about Batman v. Superman (BTW, the 'Ultimate Edition' is the only way to go). Honestly, I've grown to appreciate both of those movies, even though I never saw them as proper representations of DC's legendary heroes. Hell, I was fully-aware that Snyder's vision wasn't working for MANY fans, critics and casual moviegoers (no matter how much the rabid Snyder-stans claimed otherwise). To be honest, Zack doesn't deserve nearly as much blame for the DCEU's downfall, as the higher-ups at Warner Bros. were the main culprits responsible for all of the terrible decisions that happened behind-the-scenes. Looking back, it's abundantly clear that they believed the negative reaction to MoS and BvS, was simply due to the movies having a much bleaker tone than Marvel's movies. Therefore, as soon as Zack stepped away from the production of Justice League, they didn't hesitate to turn it into a pale imitation of its competition, as well as a hollow mockery of itself. That being said, the less we talk about the theatrical "Josstice League" abomination, the better. Truth is, tone was NEVER the problem; it was the drastic departure from what people have come to expect from the World's Finest of DC. Personally, I didn't mind an angsty version of Superman, but there wasn't enough focus on his overall humanity, and he was far too careless and destructive in battle, which greatly conflicted with scenes of him actually saving people's lives. Henry deserved so much better, in general! Also, if the MCU could make Captain America awesome, then WB can do the same with Supes, no excuses! Meanwhile, Batfleck could've been just as brutal and badass as his obvious 'Dark Knight Returns' inspiration, but he did not have to be a killer! As a matter of fact, I agree with national treasure, Rich Evans, when he said that the 'Martha' thing could have worked better, if Batman hadn't yet considered crossing the line, UNTIL Superman came into the picture! On a related note, Joker still being alive never made sense to me, considering the fact that his murdering of Robin is what supposedly pushed Bats over the edge in the first place. Anyway, like many others, I was surprised that the rumored "Snyder Cut" was actually happening, and to say I was 'pleasantly surprised' would be an understatement! Not only did it completely blow Josstice League out of the water, but it was an EPIC payoff to the films that preceded it, and it even showed promise for what the DCEU could have been! Hell, it even made me like Ezra Miller's portrayal of The Flash (ONLY in the the Snyder Cut, specifically)! Unfortunately, due to the self-inflicted shitshow at WB, and the overall lack of a concrete vision for their cinematic universe, their attempts to distance themselves from the Zack Snyder's vision resulted in more and more box-office disasters, each with varying degrees of production problems and diminishing returns. As much as it sucked to see the DCEU have such a disastrous run, at least Zack Snyder actually got to make Justice League the way he wanted, and it resulted in a pretty decent film trilogy. At this point, I'm not even that excited for James Gunn's DC Universe, but at this point, I'll just have to wait and see. Tl;dr - Warner Bros. has nobody to blame for the DCEU's failure, but themselves.

[@Shojiiib]

End of an era 😢.

[@CagedPhoenixThe1st]

A trash one really. I hope whatever we got coming does DC comics justice

[@simonlin333]

Best thing that happened to Snyderverse is that it's finally ended.

[@AnthonyDetry]

A lot of the same things I’ve said to friends. Loving your energy in going over this journey. Definitely sharing with friends

[@HariOmRadhaKrishna]

Wonder Woman 1, Shazam 1, THE Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey, Blue Beetle & Z. S. Justice League are our A-list DCEU movies.

[@Justanotherblackman]

I was with you until blue balls and "makes me want to commit suicide" squad.

[@anuragarakala1159]

It never rose in the first place. Since its initial films like BvS, almost everything was a letdown (barring few exceptions).

[@ConnorMarc]

Sounds about right, sadly. That said, I'm still finding enjoyment from most of the films regardless. Even to rewatch most of them from time to time. I guess I'm one of those hopeless fans of the genre.

[@carydum9356]

At this point, I'm too old to be excited to wait another decade for the first DCU Justice League to come out. i hope it's great and that people of that era will love it as much as I love Timmverse DCAU. As for me, I'll just chill out and wait for the end.

[@Yetanother253]

I think they could have course corrected after releasing the SnyderCut, make an Aquaman sequel with Ben Affleck as Batman and then JL 2. But they opted for a reboot, so audience lost engagement and they couldn’t replicate the success from the first movies. It’s a shame Josstice ever happened, btw. But now that it’s come to an end, I think a good summary would be with the SnyderVerse trilogy, which contains the best movies, in my opinion.