The Problem With New Characters in Genshin Impact

[@zente3003]

The reason why this model is still relatively successful in spite of the rather non-existent difficulty spike is because Genshin sells its characters on preference first and on utility second. Chances are that people will pull for someone not because they need them but because they want them. Which, in turn, made the pulling culture in Genshin a choice rather than a necessity to keep up with the meta.

[@I.disagree]

That's true, at least for me. Sigewinne is apparently bad but seeing her goofy playstyle convinced me to try pulling for her anyways

[@zente3003]

@@I.disagree I personally for now hope that she will turn out like Topaz from HSR, niche and underwhelming at first, but eventually with much wider use due to fitting characters getting eventually released.

[@alyssareynolds2130]

Also true for me. I keep hearing Clorinde is too similar to Raiden, but I never liked her as a character whereas I do like Clorinde, and same goes for Sigewinne. I’m not a meta player, I play because I enjoy character personalities, stories and designs, so I’m also going for Sigewinne, and aside from Baizhu, who I adore, there has yet to be a healer who I’ve really liked the play style of. I cannot stand Bennett, and he’s a meta obsession.

[@justsomeguy727]

​@@zente3003Wouldn't be the first time that happened either. Remember Kokomi and Yae on release ? Now look at them. Plenty of teams they are great in (even outside of dendro ones) nowadays compared to when they first came out.

[@zente3003]

@justsomeguy727 Heck, even Kazuha on release wasn't that favored. Now, even to this day, he is top 5 characters in the game.

[@jimmyramirez5146]

Natlan is the perfect time to introduce new combat mechanics, it’s the nation or war, if we’re focusing on war, then combat is a given, and introducing something new could be great

[@figlet6427]

Frrr give us Trials by Fire or something, I'm ready to use those 40+cv artifact pieces to use ToT

[@Doctor_Apocalypse]

Yeah like the rumor about being able to level up characters to lvl 100 that is 99% fake Think about how it would power creep so hard All dendro teams(mainly nahida teams) will get 40% dmg increase Hp% scales will be infinite times better than atk% or def% scales as if they aren't already better than them at the point Neuvillette will strike harder than he already is and tao/yelan/furina who are currently just balanced and just upright power creep will grow stronger and stronger

[@fortheburbsandmemes7419]

@@Doctor_Apocalypseto be fair if we do get the increase that would mean they proably buff the monsters to level 100 as well to. Or in another words a new world level.

[@positivelyno]

All we need is a wave-based resinless co-op mode that rewards artifact fodder with scalable difficulty and this game would feel so much more complete instead of the fomo gambling addiction app it has failed to evolve from this far

[@qr5393]

Inazuma was a nation at war as well I wouldn't get my hopes up lol

[@MinimumHz]

I've said this before and I'm sure Vars has said this before - BRING BACK LABYRINTH WARRIORS. If we're looking at a practical standpoint, Labyrinth Warriors was basically HSR's Simulated Universe in its early stages. Heck, in Labyrinth Warriors, I rememeber there being a buff thing which gave you an extra constellation. Sound similar? Space-Time Prism in HSR. Its so identical is hilarious. One thing that could resolve boredom for me, is making a event revisit page in the events page, where certain events could be replayed with minimal or no rewards, so that people could get a grasp on the story of the event and also its gameplay (+ potensial rewards) Imagine how miuch money they would make.

[@yuki.35xxxv]

When you really think about it, out of all the events that deserve a rerun, Labyrinth Warriors really needs one when the other repetitive events like Vibro Crystal Reseach, the Fungi event or whatever combat event happened is just the same thing, at this point Hoyo should really implement Labyrinth Warriors as an endgame content, and if better, they could place these combat events centered around Labyrinth Warriors Also they need to make the Rhythm games and Windtrace permanent. They are much more replayable than TCG but TCG is fine imo

[@kimakhiangte]

​@@yuki.35xxxvI really want the rhythm game to be permanent. It fits really well with the game too as Genshin is well known for their good music collection. TCG is so out of place for Genshin.

[@yuki.35xxxv]

@@kimakhiangte you know what makes it crazy? Rhythm games aren't permanent, so why does the game give us the ability to make our own custom maps, just to be stripped away from playing them until the next Rhythm game event? Same goes for the Divine Ingenuity event, we create our maps just to not be able to play them for the next 11 months or so

[@Romashka_Sov]

​@@yuki.35xxxvidk about Windtrace. Sure it sounds fun, but unless this mode will change and improve every patch (similar to TCG) it will become stagnant really fast. On the other hand Rhythm event and that "craft your own dungeon" type of events must become permanent. This is a free user-generated content, I can't find any reason to not make it permanent... Hmm. Maybe mix Windtrace with teapot map making? This could be a thing

[@Romashka_Sov]

​​@@yuki.35xxxvidk about Windtrace. Sure it sounds fun, but unless this mode will change and improve every patch (similar to TCG) it will become stagnant really fast. On the other hand Rhythm event and that "craft your own dungeon" type of events must become permanent. This is a free user-generated content, I can't find any reason to not make it permanent... Hmm. Maybe mix Windtrace with teapot map making? This could be a thing...

[@rocketptheracoon9226]

As someone who picked up genshin long after it released, around last summer, and since then i've been trying to play catchup with the rest of the community. For me, genshin's lack of power scaling is a blessing because it both allows me to catch up but also play old characters and have fun, like xiao or itto who i just got this year

[@Avaa-vanilla995]

Agreed! I also started last summer. I'm glad that older units can still be used really effectively!

[@aracnadei13]

This is exactly why I pulled for Arlechinno. Newer account, so no Diluc, HuTao or Yomiya.

[@CelestETheGamingGoddess]

oof

[@aceuxroo]

indeed. also because of the new units that benefit the existing ones. xiao and diluc is among the older released characters in the game and they faded away for quite some time until xianyun was released now they've been in the spotlight again particularly xiao

[@whatismyadjectiveiconfused]

I joined 3.4 and I agree with you. It's easy to catch up to the whale player in this game. Plus genshin has a way to make old characters become meta later, like keqing and diluc with dendro element, xiao with anemo and plunging buff support, and zhongli skill to support navia's crystallize reaction

[@Jieteru]

I think the thing that ultimately dissuade me from pulling characters entirely is the artifact system, It feels like whenever a new major character is release another type of artifact that is best in slot for them would come out along with these characters. We all know how painful artifact farming is, you could spend months on certain domain and still not get the ideal substat for that character (given that rn there's no incentive to progress if you already have built characters for abyss exclusively). That's beside the point, most of the time we want to use our brand new shiny character on the abyss cuz most of the time the abyss blessings and enemies are catered to them specifically (even though it can be cleared by OP team comps) and to mention the fact that abyss is the only content in the game that is geared towards testing the "progression" of our characters.

[@I.disagree]

I don't see much point in getting BiS artifacts though, there's only so many playstyles a character can have and a lot of current artifacts can already have good 4-pc bonuses. For example, pairing any character without BoL with Furina allows them to use marechausse, no grinding needed. Or any character that supports with their burst can use Emblem. I dont even spend resin on artifacts anymore ever since the golden troupe and MH domain came out

[@raycigar6356]

But newest characters use Gladiators set successfully, Neuvilette can use wanderer's troupe set

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

You can 36 star without even having sets lol 😆and if you do want one, viridescent is all you need, and it doesn't even have to be good, just stack ER and maybe em

[@pmuniversee]

YES I agree wholeheartedly. Sure, you don't *need* BiS artifacts, but I didn't pull for this character for their numbers to be sub-par. I want them to work, and I want them to work to the best of their ability, because I spent time, resources and sometimes money to ensure I got that character on my account. Oftentimes though, I pull a new character, their BiS domain releases, and I don't have thousands of fragile resin to use for them, meaning they just collect dust for days, weeks or months while I fight through the absolutely abysmal RNG hellscape that is artifact farming.

[@RandomPerson-cf3gt]

I personally also think that the drop rate of exp books and mora should be increased

[@YayaFeiLong]

As a HI3 player, Genshin's so-called "character stagnation" is honestly a blessing because it means I don't have to worry about the characters I have now becoming obsolete in a year like I do with HI3. I'm free to just pull for whoever I like, meta be damned. I remember the days when Silverwing NE-X was my strongest Valkyrie. I remember the days...

[@asomeone8965]

my 4/4 duck Dea Anchora weeps in the abyss with you.

[@snowblanc1678]

That’s how I feel too. I’m so tired of games with such awful power creep

[@daijo6158]

Me and my hor broyna crying

[@VrtielA6300]

For me... It's for Raiden Mei "Herrscher of Thunder and Origin"

[@raphyline_2422]

first impressions on the vid, i think that new characters' point is not to really be the new combat mechanics (i know that wasnt the main point) but rather for satisfaction and QOL in comparison to older units, conversely, they also tie part of that QOL into the first 2 constellations of said new characters as well as higher base stats because at the end of the day, its a game, we're either here for waifu, husbando, big pp dmg or all of the above. still though, content in genshin was always going to be an issue when it first game out from a longevity standpoint because its finite and few inbetween, characters provide a fresh outlook on said content but that doesnt change what it is, very repetitive, leading to burnout. thanks for coming to my ted talk

[@Xeo701]

No reply? Man most of your words are true though

[@arthur_pd]

agree, thats one of reason why i spend money and pull

[@EimiShahrizai]

Yeah, I directly think if they ever make you feel you *need* to pull for certain characters for a game mode, it will backfire. The reason I play this game long term is I pull because I want them, not because the game is telling me I need them. The second you do that and the whole gacha model is just openly exploitative and kills a lot of my enjoyment.

[@wahyuwirawan727]

I play a character because i like it not because the game needs it. It is quite essential if you want to play or invest in the long term. Fun factor always above everything else.

[@skylerfreeman1173]

He never said make it so you need to pull for new characters. In that part he says "try using a mid tier bow user" implying that something f2p like fischl or amber could work just fine. It's about variety of content and use. Not necessity of pulling the new unit. Hsr does this rn. New units are obviously better and easier to clear with but people make videos 0 cycling and 60k pureFiction every patch with 4stars. This isn't meant to force you to pull, but give you different avenues of gameplay but I can see how some would interpret it otherwise.

[@DaeisArc]

Am I crazy for liking the fact that I don't have to pull every banner like I feel like I have to do in HSR? I'm happy with the fact that I can just enjoy exploration + story with the characters I've already pulled for.

[@justsomeguy727]

No you aren't crazy for that. The people who want that(that being pushing the ceiling higher all the time and what not) are the people who these games prey on the easiest. The people who pursue an endless ceiling where the game can just leech off their psychological desire to always want stronger stuff. The same goes for anybody who thinks adding game modes that effectively FORCE the player to build things they might not even care to use just so they can comfortably clear a particular game mode. Those people are inviting more predatory nonsense into the game without really realizing it due to their selfish nature of "wanting content."

[@pandereodium]

Yep, I feel the same. I have interest only in those characters who have outstanding mechanics and there are not many. I don't really care about meta, because unique mechanics kinda make game easier in their own ways.

[@figlet6427]

Nah I feel you, honestly I'd just love it if there were more challenging content for those who did the artifact grind, and want to push their limits -,w,- I love just casually vibing in the game, but it's ridiculously easy, and after a while that gets boring

[@KiwiNikified]

No. I much prefer Genshin in that regard. I can skip and pull characters that I genuinely like as opposed to characters I dislike to make something work.

[@nobody-xh6ii]

I do want more game modes but i'm also thankful for the control of the powercreep. HI3rd AND HSR have this problem and yet a friend of mine I know acts like HSR doesn't have powercreep issues when it does

[@ProjSHiNKiROU]

I'm a vertical investor and I have 18 missing limited 5-star characters and I chose to pull for constellations and weapons instead of having every character. New characters not being able to out-DPS my C2R1 + 2 years of artifact farming are partly why I don't pull for new characters. However, I would hand Genshin a medal for minimizing powercreep and do game balancing the hard way.

[@eastonair]

Yeah, pull priorities really change once you start going vertical. The DPS ceiling you unlock with cons is significant and it's hard to NOT bring those characters into abyss once you have them. Genshin's gacha may be expensive but the slow rate of releases means that even F2P/Welkin only players could get cons if that was how they chose to prioritize things.

[@FoolXXII22]

that wouldnt be vertical but horizontal investment also known as "going wide" building characters you have and upgrading them instead of going for new characters

[@imo098765]

Get Arlecchino c1, RIP everything that came before

[@mustangroy5012]

@@FoolXXII22 no it's vertical because you build what you have. it's a power axis vs variety axis.

[@FoolXXII22]

@@mustangroy5012 its literally not, vertical meaning you expand and get new units, horizontal = building units/investing in more eidolons for units you have

[@milez8697]

As a genuine Genshin player for almost 3 years, I can safely say I still enjoy the game and my enjoyment stems from a mix of characters design, VAs, open world gameplay, appealing characters and stories, intriguing mechanics like artifacts, talent material, weapons and so on, it’s a game that has a lot to give, and if you actually look at the game more then just its combat alone, you can truly appreciate the game more then you do now. Let’s not forget the music too, we can’t say it’s not good guys.

[@kenta6591]

They should introduce a custom domain creation to test built characters with whatever team you have. Unlike test domains which doesn't even come as half as close to actual potential of characters

[@NightmareRex6]

yea i been saying that too, just let you edit it and add whatever bosses or enemys want heck even maby multable weekly bosses at once! altho might be have SOME sort limit like maby 3 bosses at a time becuase they will want it to work on carppy phones. and just dont get any reword for completing these domains so its not like players can "cheat" by adding a single level 1 hillchurl.

[@someonesomewhere8658]

User generated content you say... this *might* be coming down the line

[@f4llenleaves]

Didn't they already introduce that? Although it was a limited event

[@Baby8Stef]

You should try the Vishap challenge.

[@sunclove3554]

​@@f4llenleaves only exploration-centered domains, not yet for a combat-centered domain where you can shove as many enemies with levels of your choice

[@reelix5143]

I stopped sending money to pull for new units a while ago. Nowadays I look back at those unbuild units and give them some love. Surprisingly, it's been pretty fun and refreshing.

[@BladeSerph]

Its basically the fun of when the grind is TOO DAMN LONG to prepare a unit and then it compounds even worst when you have situations like getting multiple new characters a version or playing the catch up game in general. Mostly, at higher levels, games with material loot systems would NORMALLY, create methods to trivalize earlier grind to make it insignificant, such as basically automating the process in a way. Genshite screws this up with the world level system supposedly `upping` the amount, but clearly its done at a far slower pace and still purposely `locked` between either having todo too many different things to scalp past the `stamina limit`. Force too much Stamina burn on chasing various resources or just straight up have to go intruding in other peoples lands to get that conviently too short of enough resources if you solely relied on non-multi player play. This is why even though we still got a week till Wuthering Waves, the idea of them divorcing the artifact grind aka `echoes` COMPLETELY from both Gacha and from Stamina and likely using a GENERALIZED POOL of resources much more, would mean it can end up having a much tighter pool and easier over-flow to still inch closer to catch up then be fk`d over because some games didnt think to implment a material EXCHANGE system to convert materials of similar category requirements into other materials, thru some limitations, to enable more smooth acquistion of goods. So effectively: K.I.S.S. Logic wins again, by the simple fact of the less convoluted and less tedious a `development system` is in a game, the easier it is to NOT fall into the multi-stack trap of preparing multiply `copies`, preparing resources in advance and in turn NOT be rail-roaded in wasting excessive amount of stamina from say, `before` a new character drops, because that new character conviently includes an entire new unique resource pool which is extremely hard to farm, was not available beforehand and even if you have 5 to 10 times all the other required resources, your still fk`d by a land lock as a result. Moral of the story: Genshite needs to divorce itself from all these random unique resources and instead go for collectibles and have the actual upgrade resources more shrunk down to a general pool of stamina sink instead, probably just have you get those same resources while farming artifacts or other material growth resources or maybe even have it where you get the resources by SALVAGING trash gear, while also including a much more effective EXP resource to use in place of fusing artifacts to artifacts for exp gain to balance that portion out. Anyway, this is also why Punishing: Gray Raven is my most favorite mobile game atm, because for quite a few months i reached a point where i hoarde so much resources i could max an A-rank or maybe even 2 A-rank units day 1 of thar release and still have a large pile of resources still and likely make back all those resources in the same patch with relative ease, because the stamina sink is funneled straight into a version event shop where you can exchange tokens for ANY specific character/pet/weapon development resource, no split shenigans attached. This of course makes `normal` resource stages mostly redundant, but atleast the option exists whenever P:GR does get in a situation where it has to suddenly have an entire month of no content active, even if they are more likely to just straight up extend the existing version instead.

[@fortheburbsandmemes7419]

Might do this once I’m finished with baizhu be nice to get Mona, fischel, candance and etc up to speed. Most of the charcter talents I have are with 7 or 8.

[@DonQ0]

From my understanding many people still pull and build character simply because they like them don't really care if those unit is op or not. If genshin make a game mode that require to use specific unit it will alienate those player base. If the game mode don't give reward f2p will screaming. Imo the best way to do is to make reward achievable through different way. Abyss, fishing, furnishing, exploring etc. But currently the only way to get refreshable reward is doing abyss.

[@kardelenkoc9746]

ADD END GAME COOP DUNGEONS

[@oozypilot8467]

THANK YOU

[@stevem.9340]

So like a Dungeon or a Raid in Destiny.

[@I.disagree]

Sadly thats never going to happen. I love co-op events and co-op related stuff but there's a lot of people in the community who don't enjoy it (I also don't think there's anything wrong with that preference) so I doubt that's ever going to come out and be a big thing

[@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627]

​@@I.disagree Then just make it optional, there's no excuse.

[@ginak5802]

@@I.disagree So? A lot of players never touch the TCG but Hoyo made that and update it frequently. Just make it so there aren't any primogems/wishes as recurring rewards.

[@pumpjackmcgee4267]

Personally, I'm glad that we have a live game that doesn't powercreep it's early roster into irrelevance. I've quit several other games because they've essentially become pay to win. Genshin never pretended to be anything other than a casual game for the casual players. While it would be nice to have new and more challenging content ( like a dungeon or raid bosses), I think having a pretty low skill ceiling is key to the games success. And hardcore players will always find ways to challenge themselves such as 1hp runs.

[@freddiet.rowlet525]

Something I think that's overlooked here as something I enjoy about new characters in Genshin is their synergy with existing 4-star units. If you pull regularly you'll inevitably end up with some 4-stars that you have no use for, so I enjoy when I get the chance to take one of them off the bench for a new team. I pulled Chevreuse coz I thought her mechanic was interesting, but when I tried her with Yoimiya she was underwhelming compared to other options, however, when Arlecchino came out they synergised very well and I enjoy having that reason to build and use Chevreuse where I wouldn't before.

[@CarlosAugusto-bj8un]

If Genshin was like other gachas (like HSR with super fast power creep), I would never started it. It's insane if you want something like Diablo Immortal on Genshin, yes create new game mechanics and new modes I am ok with it, BUT NEVER increase difficult to the point you need to pull new characters, this is a predatory way gacha win over you!

[@UltraCookie3000]

I like how I can take a break (sorry I’m an adult with a job and I can’t no life this game) come into Genshin, pull a Xianyun and give my old Diluc new life. THIS is what sets this game apart from other gatcha games to me. The POINT of pulling characters in this game is cuz you like them and you can make them work as long as you have a bandaid character or two. Thankfully we get many of those pretty easily. This allows me to spend very little on this game and let the whales fund it for me to enjoy. I am OKAY with this slooooow power creep. It lets me touch grass. The incentive is: I like this new character. Sorry you don’t fit into this mindset. We’re not all sweaty gamers.

[@RenkittyRenzo]

My biggest issue with the characters is that getting a new one feels like a punishment. Raising a character takes so much time and materials! I need millions of mora and thousands of exp books! Plus all the ascension materials! No, I don’t wanna farm 300 random flowers that grow in the most inconvenient places and of which only 15 exist in the whole game - and then I need to wait a week for them to respawn! Don’t even get me started on talent levels, which you can only farm on the third day of every other month during a full moon… And, of course, that then brings us onto the artifact farm… good luck!

[@thonk5262]

Please don't ask for them to increase character power creep

[@silverhawkscape2677]

As an HSR player I agree. The Power creep is scary in HSR. 😢

[@DiaborMagics]

i agree

[@VrtielA6300]

👎

[@whatismyadjectiveiconfused]

Yeah. I moved to genshin from bad MMORPG with insane powercreep and it takes the fun out of the game. I don't want genshin to be on that path

[@kiaras.6493]

I am honestly glad that older unit don't become invaluable. As someone who gets hung up with real life, not being able to play for months, it's great that I can always jump back into the game and play the new content with my existing units without going through hell. Of course it would be great if we had a few new mechanics added into the game but I don't wish for absolute powercreep. I pull for units I really like and not for units I have to pull just to be able to remotely play the game without suffering. Also the only reason why reruns still work is because of that too. You can jump into the game as a new or old player, get a unit from 2 years ago or older and still enjoy the game with them. I think people who say that there is nor reason to pull for new units, since the game doesn't force you to do so, are those that don't care for the unit themself but for the performance and numbers alone. Genshin, aside from being a gacha, is more focused on rpg aspects, lore, exploration and characters and less on combat and power. That is exactly the reason why it so so popular. Because that way it has a much larger community it appeals too. If the game suddenly turned into a powercreeped pay to win, it will loose most of it's players, me included. I am interested in getting challenges, of course, but I don't want the game to become unplayable for me just because I don't have the money to through ot on every new banner, every constellation and weapon again and again. What I wish for is an optional endgame content such as very hard or really specific domains or PvP with a ranking system where really strong players and casual players fight against each other in their respective category. That way players who only care about power and met would have their own playground and casual players can also enjoy it but without getting frustrated. Just something to soice the game up without ruining it's main gameplay. I really like the addition of the local legends. They are unbeatable to some players, while a good challenge for others but in the end they are optional.

[@dustinabigan2776]

We're at a point in Genshin's development that if you want to clear everything, you can futureproof a unit by just getting an overpowered unit now like Neuvillette and then just stack constellations and weapons with primogems you get daily (which is what I plan on doing from here). That alone would probably be enough to make him viable until the end of Genshin. By then, why bother getting someone unit beyond personal attachments or if it's an Archon? When it comes to introducing restrictions on weapons and elements to incentivize getting new units, one complaint some players have with HSR when comparing it to Genshin is that you need a lot of teams to address different game modes. It's probably an unpopular opinion but imo I'd prefer the route HSR uses (Pure Fiction, Memory of Chaos, Swarm Disaster, Gold and Gears, etc.) but to a less extreme extent because it's precisely that introduction of different win conditions or needed strategies that made sure different units can shine at different situations (prime example being Herta and Himeko). Apparently there's going to be another game mode that favors Hunt units in the future, which basically completes the trio of having Erudition in PF and Destruction in MoC. It's a painful approach on the player to have to all of a sudden build more teams given the bad artifact RNG, but it could ensure longevity in combat mechanics by always needing a different approach to clear endgame content every once in a while rather than just the option to ignore things like Abyss blessings just because the team is so powerful.

[@meepswag35]

I think if people complain about having to build multiple teams, the simple option is to just not offer rewards, or only offer minimal rewards, at least at first. I played sim universe for months without getting bored, even when I wasn’t getting anything for doing it

[@dustinabigan2776]

@@meepswag35 I think the question then would be at what point will they start giving the actual rewards like primogems. Because if you're a new player that came after that transition period, more likely they're going to complain about that as well that there are rewards that they can't get because of needing multiple teams. So either way Genshin has to confront that possibility that someone will complain about why you need multiple teams to get rewards, whether it's the current playerbase or new ones. One way could be to lock those rewards behind multiple levels, kind of like how you can only get the Propagation or Erudition paths (but something that's refreshable like primogems or rare level up materials) once you complete their respective SU gamemodes and then just have increasing rewards per level done leading up to it.

[@ethos728]

I agree that Genshin needs something similar to hsr route like multiple game modes with different win cons. It would provide a reason to want new units that excel at different things and again explore untouched areas of the elemental/ combat system they built. Furthermore whether these game modes have rewards for completing them could be similar to the way hsr provided most of the rewards just for the basic clearance of each diff in gng and sd which is relatively achievable compared to the c12 gng runs with every dice combination that still grant rewards but not nearly as much. Giving endgame players endgame goals while still making the bulk of rewards available for the average player is a decent way to go about doing things. I think that Genshin has SO many more options for different game modes compared to hsr where turn based gameplay can only have so much done with it before it’s the same idea but under different buffs or debuffs the player has to work around. It’s just really disappointing that Genshin doesn’t seem to want to provide content outside of questing/ exploration.

[@justsomeguy727]

You people are literally fighting for adding more predatory shit in these games lmao strongarming players into building things just to tackle a once every 42 days game mode is some horseshit. Players should be allowed to build who they like, not be forced into a pigeon hole just because they made arbitrary rules for a game mode that makes it so if you don't X archetype you're at a disadvantage.

[@sittingcrowd912]

⁠@@dustinabigan2776 I mean in HSR you can just pull e6 Acheron and clear every content in this game. There’s even characters like Silver Wolf and Ruan Mei that let you just cheese through everything. And now there’s Robin and Sparkle that just makes the game more braindead. The problem isn’t really that there’s no endgame, but rather no difficult content, and that includes HSR. I think Swarm/G&G has been the only modes to actually challenge players but MoC, PF, and the new AS are pretty easy once you get the right units. The fun really comes from pulling your favorite character and testing out new mechanics.

[@jessjohnson1569]

I want new stable game modes. Like, give us coop raids or something. Put us in random maps with an objective. Not just "kill all enemies". The coop in genshin is weak as hell, i feel like coop doesnt exist beyond getting help in lvl 90 artifact domains.

[@justsomeguy727]

You aren't getting meaningful co-op content. Hoyo just isn't good at doing it. Hell, Hi3 literally REMOVED their co-op raids because nobody played them, and the few that did, you'd always run the risk of the raid crashing because someone was on mobile and somebody else used a character who blows up their device with all their visual effects and such. They also would just make it forced co-op by tying important materials to it like they did in hi3, which is complete ass. Forced co-op for progression of any kind is just not a good idea when their intention for the game is very clearly to be mostly single player above all else.

[@aliwi3476]

Forced co-op is bullshit

[@nxkx4079]

i hate that i dont have where to test my characters i hate that i cant compare them with diffrent artifacts and weapons without taking an hour

[@ginak5802]

YES! It is so annoying when you're trying to decide between several artifacts for a character and there's no easy way to test damage. I usually just go by what feels better or use a third party damage calculator. Your only options in-game are fighting the same enemies over and over and recording how much damage you do with each build. Which is super tedious and time consuming, and it doesn't tell you your average DPS anyway.

[@BladeSerph]

Reason why Punishing: Gray raven is still awesome because they let you have TRIAL versions of the characters for many pieces of content, even outside of the debut version, have tutorial stages to do an active combat and even practice stage with the unit and even include the ability to just select stages to face basically any boss in the game outside of thar story-locked ones so you could easily face any boss with any unit to see how they work in any combat situation. AKA just throws further fudge in one`s face when genshite started by letting you get TRIAL versions of a number of characters for early story stages, and then had version try out of a few particular units, but never CONTINUED the trend as far as im aware of by having that many noticeable story stages where you would play as TRIAL versions of the characters, atleast as far as im aware of between Liyue, Inazuma and Sumeru before i gave up on attempting to fool myself that Genshite is even a fun game at all.

[@Star_Rattler]

There's the dude in Inazuma who you can fight endlessly, but he moves around a LOT, stands there and blocks damage forever, and also has very low health. So he's not ideal for being a dummy target despite that being his purpose.

[@KingMufasa_8]

In the new remuria area there is an endless vishap challenge that you can repeat as many times as you want

[@riotangel4701]

Local legends

[@paris5831]

Been playing for the open world and story, it’s been good ngl.

[@thatgreenplant1353]

Bro genshins story telling is so bland even a toddler would understand it but in order for a toddler to understand it, it has to appeal to one

[@KingMufasa_8]

​@@thatgreenplant1353 the main story is simple to follow but the underlying lore is complex and confusing, which hoyo does on purpose.

[@cr1ym]

@@thatgreenplant1353 ??? the story can seem lazy and simple at first, but recently it's actually gotten a lot darker and deeper. The reason I love the lore of genshin so much is because the structure of teyvat is honestly really well thought out. You probably have the attention span of a toddler and just skip all the dialogue

[@columbinadamselettefan]

@@thatgreenplant1353the story is genuinely good

[@paris5831]

@@thatgreenplant1353 cool dawg why are you telling me about ur dissatisfaction with the story telling… 💀

[@Gerd0]

Complexity creep and power creep are dangerous, and the there is a very real risk of the line between having a reason to want new characters for gameplay reasons and NEEDING them becoming way more precarious. But I think I broadly with more varied combat content being nice. That said, I do think hand waving the "waifu over meta" and still pondering the point of new characters as progression is very much viewing it in a vacuum that just doesn't exist. The intrinsic motivation of liking a character (something everything else in the game puts a LOT of effort into making you do) and it driving you to make them strong is very much the point.

[@meisterhyperion207]

New characters are not pointless. I like that i can pull for characters i like. I don't like, if the game forces me with powercreep or content you are only able to do with certain characters. That's one of the points that made me stop playing HSR.

[@a-passerby]

This!

[@jasmineelhilali9152]

Well this is a dumb take....

[@alyssareynolds2130]

@@jasmineelhilali9152 It’s an opinion which you can respectfully disagree with rather than being a child using “dumb” for your reasoning.

[@ethos728]

Completely fair take and I agree if you find stuff like pure fiction frustrating because I was annoyed with it too. Forcing you to build certain teams just to do specific content is frustrating. That being said, I think hsr hasn’t gotten to a point where there is a necessity to pull for specific characters. Things like serval hyper carry or even misha super break with relatable builds work SUPER well in moc and just need investment. Same goes for pure fiction with herta march 7th cheese or something along those lines. I think while units like Acheron who completely outclass any previous dps in dmg are probably not the healthiest thing in the game, I could compare that to Neuvillette completely breaking Genshin when he came out. While it comes down to preference, having actual content to keep you invested in using every character you can to build viable teams for new challenges is much better than letting the characters themselves be the “new content” and having nothing else to use them on besides the same end goal as before.

[@sittingcrowd912]

@@jasmineelhilali9152how so?

[@Diiby]

I’d like to make three points One: I genuinely think that the max level being 90 has always been an intentionally weird decision on their behalf, that without a shadow of a doubt will be raised to 100. I think the cleanest way to go about this would be unlocking it via Story Quest as opposed to spending like 1k books. It would also bring a new passive to older units that new ones could be built around and old ones could be brought up to date with. Two: It’s a fantasy game with an emphasis on elements and a system of drip feeding content while occasionally sprinkling in syrup, of course we’re getting more elements. It was so refreshing getting Dendro after what felt like mostly moving around the same rocks on a beach. I’d personally like to see the AFK Arena route where Light and Dark are more centered around interacting with each other. Spitballing here but we could also get subclasses of elements like Crystals and Dirt being conceptually different things for Geo. And lastly: I have been at the point where I pull who I want and don’t actually need units since I started the game where they gave me Xiangling. I don’t think there really needs to be incentive to pull new units outside of a personal desire to. Sure new elements would force players to pull, but at the end of the day (As shown with Dendro) we’d always have Traveler, so it’s not like the content is actually restricted. I typed a lot

[@alyssareynolds2130]

Love your comment. I just wanted to bounce off a few of your points and say that being an element reaction game, if we could get some different Geo reactions, like what you suggested, that would suit this games play style and be fantastic. Although I honestly on,y pull for and build characters I like, so while I could have cleared the abyss with meta characters like Xiangling, or Bennett, I don’t like Bennett’s play style or character, so it wasn’t until Baizhu first came out that I finally landed on a healer I adored for character, story and play style. I used Diluc as my main DPS for the longest time, but never enjoyed his slow claymore attacks as much as I love the ease of Neuvillette. Finally I actually enjoy combat moments, and Neuvillette is a relatively new character. I’m sure there will be more yet to come that will fill other enjoyable niches. Genshin is definitely not a game for serious combat enthusiasts and that’s okay. There are and will be other games for those people. I personally love the lore and worldbuilding, and that keeps me coming back.

[@pr0ntab]

Agreed... you don't know how happy I am when I see those recent abyss clear videos with starting units or early 4*s still to this day. It's clear that the game is balanced around making even old units viable with sufficiently invested accounts and precise play. This feels more fair and that we pull for fun and not because we "need" to so the fomo is really more to get who looks cool or to show off to friends rather than gating progression behind it. It feels less scummy.

[@pr0ntab]

​@@alyssareynolds2130I'm one of those people that actually likes that geo doesn't meaningfully react; this allows you to slot it into teams where it doesn't steal too much aura and enables new ideas like Yun Jin wanting rainbow teams or Navia which I think they should continue to introduce! More geo subdps, buffers and healers please 🙏

[@riotangel4701]

*Genshin Impact* attempt at light vs dark - pneuma ousia - didn't really catch on. It is highly problematic because only Fontaine characters get it.

[@Avaa-vanilla995]

Honestly I totally agree.

[@simpleyetcomplex]

If I were to describe myself, it would be the casual player with a bit of the combat enjoyer.

[@Someone-zn4dh]

Same here

[@lamlan2799]

there is no in between.....you're either super casuals or super combat freak.......if you insist that you're both....then you're not playing this game right

[@simpleyetcomplex]

@@lamlan2799 I’d argue there is. You can be casual and enjoy the combat when it comes up.

[@blaze8308]

@@lamlan2799 Chill.. Chill... It's called not being a tryhard and enjoying the game depending on the content and time.

[@justsomeguy727]

​@@lamlan2799if you insist that some kind of middle ground can't exist I'm sorry but you need to reevaluate yourself.

[@natalies8498]

As someone who plays ABSOLUTELY mostly for story/lore with the occasional dipping into combat occasionally, I think I can understand people's frustrations, but also, I love meeting and seeing what new characters I find interesting or likable. What I find interesting is constantly changing up my main overworld characters to see if I can figure out ways to learn how to build and use them. I personally LIKE the fact that I don't feel a lot of pressure to pull new characters, because my personal goals are NOT to spend money on the game. Especially as a new-ish player who ended up playing a lot of catch-up and making hard decisions about which characters I actually want. For me, the drive to pull new characters is mostly to explore the way different abilities may or may not work together, and that variety is good (but MOSTLY how much I personally actually LIKE the character). I personally have the best time doing random-team generators with my coop friends in domains where we deliberately are forced to use our unused or not fully-built characters to see what happens, and I tend to have the most fun that way if it comes to combat. That said... I also feel like this MAY or MAY not become a moot discussion in a version or two - IF rumors are true. In which case, having a large variety of characters of different elements MAY become more incentivized., which... I am surprisingly ok with. I think this is probably more doable in Genshin BECAUSE every character remains viable to use - even if they are not the strongest and most optimal. (Me who loves Neuvillette and Nahida but am constantly looking for ways to make my Noelle and Beidou better built and stronger so I can start tossing them into random situations.) That said, I am not opposed to new game modes - as happens in HSR (which... I also enjoy - mostly for story/lore, but am occasionally stressed by the fact that new story and lore tends to be gate-kept by strong boss enemies, but then the challenge that I enjoy is figuring out the best strategy to beat the mechanics more than anything else) - especially since I'd want EVERYONE else to still enjoy the game as they want to. However, I'd never want to give up the open world explorability and the richness of character and story development in Genshin for that, but again - am as casual as casual can be most likely. (Only recently finished all the SU worlds at level 1! Tbh, of all the end modes available, I probably enjoy the Simulated Universe the most - and that's in LARGE part due to the attached lore with the Aeons and curios, so maybe that's why. LOL)

[@TDeck24]

I feel like a bunch of this video is "yeah this is different but if you ignore that it feels the same". I swear I heard a variation of that like 4 times in the 6 and a half minute mark that I'm at when writing this comment

[@northsouteastwesk3435]

The only thing i ask of hoyo if they're really stuck on genshin's ways, is to introduce characters like nilou or chevreusse that makes you build teams a certain type of way. Heck, maybe an actually good physical support electro/cryo character for once for any eula havers, geo/anemo already has their gorou/faruzan!

[@Hrishi1410]

Mika is a physical support i guess

[@exo_eve7575]

​@@Hrishi1410 he doesn't do enough and only gets okay at c6 and with how God awful obtaining 4stars is right now. I know most don't have that. I know I dont.

[@ShevaAlpha2002]

I'm hoping Emilie to be a Dendro unit that specializes in burning reaction like how Nilou specializes in bloom reaction.

[@LightshaverConstellation]

​@exo_eve7575 many don't for sure. I rolled 3 Eula's on her banner losing no 50/50's and only 2 Mika from those pulls.

[@flamezforthegamez1056]

​​@@exo_eve7575Mika does do enough but the physical carries just suck. The attack speed buff Mika provides is wasted on them, but would be way more viable for polearms, bows, and swords. Atk speed + Crescent Pike would go ham for a cryo/electro physical 5* dps. Like imagine 5* Razor wields a polearm.

[@Bob-rb9zw]

Power creep is also dangerous because pulling for new characters becomes pointless if a stronger one will release a week after the last one. KHuX suffered greatly from this towards the end.

[@glench4693]

If you're a hardcore player and want new ways and how far you can push the meta, then the only way that works is power creep. If all you want is faster clears, more damage, and better synergies. That only leads to power creep.

[@I.disagree]

Powercreep might create temporary hype but it's harmful for character longevity

[@Axterix13]

I think power creep is inevitable regardless. For a character to have appeal, they need to stand out in some way, to have their niche. And if they do that, then that's a slight bump in player power. Meanwhile, without it, it is easy for characters to not sell, and Hoyoverse doesn't want that. Heck, a character can offer power creep and still sell poorly (hiya, Chiori) due to the design of their kit. So just by the existence of more characters, we'll be better able to tailor our teams to the situation, and consequently, be more powerful. For example, Hu Tao was the best pyro DPS, but having Yoimiya as well made things like the Thunderbird or Wolf Lord easier. Added to that, we have Fontaine characters. Furina is the single biggest instance of power creep the game has seen. Neuv is a tank mage. Lyney is top pyro DPS. Navia tops Itto. And then factor in how constellations are much more meaningful now. Even if you were to argue that a C0 Chiori and C0 Albedo have about equal value, due to circumstances, that falls apart at C2, and becomes utterly laughable at C6. What we don't have, however, is content that has scaled up to those more powerful characters. Which makes existing content very, very trivial to older players. But that said, making content for those of us in that boat, while not also making the rewards accessible to players with less powerful accounts... not ideal.

[@glench4693]

@Axterix13 so you are OK with the fact that every character you currently have will be irrelevant after a few months. And I mean unusable irrelevant. If you think it's fine for all characters to be good for x amount of time and then fall off, mean f2p is dead.

[@KiwiNikified]

Exactly.

[@shutup1037]

​@@glench4693if they still can clear why would casual care? You know what I mean? People that calling "powercreep" might be competitive player that pretend to be casual. Stop it, it's stupid

[@ludwigtheascendant]

Clorinde definitely feels that way, sadly. I have Raiden, Keqing, Miko, I have no real need for her, aside from liking her.

[@cr1ym]

not to mention the agony of having to build a new character up from scratch when you already have built ones.

[@pulledporc5334]

Another thing i think people forget about in regards to Xianyun's big 1st day banner sales is that we also got new premium skins for Ganyu and Shenhe that patch, which I suspect contributes a not small amount to the revenue.

[@Enric.]

This is probably the most whale-centric video I've ever seen. No. Not needing a new character is not negative, it's positive. Most of us either spend nothing, or a lot of cash which is considering nothing in Genshin, therefore we cannot afford all characters. So we don't need to feel a lot of pressure to get every single character, and we don't want to feel that our old characters are trash. So no, I don't want more powercreep. I want less powercreep. And the more characters I can skip, the better.

[@barbararebocho6729]

Exactly, feeling pressure to get the most recent DPS because of the abyss blessings and enemies being catered to them is a horrible feeling. Now that I finally got Neuvillette (cause I actually love him as a character) as I built him enough for the abyss, guess what? It's all for Arlecchino and Pyro and Im here feeling like my hydro, hyperbloom and freeze teams are not adequate for the challenge 🙄

[@kaladbolgII]

I feel like this problem is the kind of problem other games wish they had. Having progression like characters with multiple skills or elements is excactly the kind of powercreep that destroyed Tower of Fantasy when they introduced dual elements. Sure you have Neuvi who is an incredible power house, but you don't need him to play the game. A lot of people would say that it's bad because you don't have any reason to pull him because the content is not that hard, but the opposite would be that you HAVE to pull him otherwise you can't keep up. What I love is that I don't really have to play any meta characters, I can just play the characters I LIKE and I will still be good. In Pokemon you can just play with any Pokemon you like and still beat the game, immagine if Game Freak, to promote the new generation of Pokemon, just made the games so that you HAVE to use the new ones or you just can't beat the game. Immagine if they pushed more the Ousia and Preuma elements that only the Fontaine characters have, so that you need that in abyss or it will be much harder to beat it. That's an incentive to pull the newer Fontaine characters who will have their own element + Ousia or Peuma. Thank god they didn't.

[@Masfugo]

the problem is .. people that can consistently clear spiral abyss 36 stars every single time is in a very small minority of player base while most of the players are casual that dont even understand how the elemental reaction work prove me wrong

[@vincentlau6325]

I actually agree with this lol I have all meta relevant characters and I still can not consistently clear floor 12 abyss lol. The issue is that it's stale AF 😂 And I have characters that I would like to use more of like Eula, Xianyun, Ayato, but why bother when I have Arlechino and Nahida? Luckily if we choose to believe leaks they plan on increasing level cap 100 and add another form of endgame

[@jh44rell]

@@vincentlau6325 what ar are u ?

[@EnbyFranziskaNagel]

I got to level 45 without understanding reactions. I had a team of 4 dps and my strategy was running away from mobs and food. I didn't even have a healer in my team.

[@MaliUrum]

true, on my first try i didn't care about reactions and stuff, some accounts later i gradually became used to thinking beforehand about combinations of different elements and roles of the characters i have 😅

[@whatismyadjectiveiconfused]

Yes. I can reach 12-3 but never got a fullstar. Hours of artifact and level up materials are not enough ft reach fullstar imo. You tons of money to buy sign weapon + C6. Not to mention luckiness too if the bosses in that season are the one that are weak enough for your team

[@Actually_Zahren]

Something I like about a new character coming out in Star Rail vs a new character in Genshin is that (currently) a new character isn't just "a new way of doing damage", or "a direct improvement to an old character". Even the absurdly strong characters like Jingliu, Dan IL, and Acheron have slightly different team comps that they fit into, so pulling a new character can mean that you're suddenly needing to roster a completely different team. Genshin has a couple of these with characters like Nilou and Chevreuse where their strength is also a restriction, incentivising players to pull for specific elements to reinforce those teams. Using Chevreuse in your Arlecchino team means that you now can't use Zhongli as your shielder, meaning that any future 5* pyro or electro shielder is high on you priority list. Having more of those types of characters in the next expansion could help to inject a bit more life into the teambuilding side of the game.

[@justsomeguy727]

You're literally praising a game for being more predatory in regards to trying to form a team comp than the other one. You do realize this right? Also Thoma exists for pyro shielding and has the third best shield in the game. No need to wait for a pyro shield for Arle lol it already exists.

[@nobody-xh6ii]

Thoma exists and not only applies pyro on NA hits but also has the 3rd strongest shield. The only other 2 that compare are layla and zhongli. Plus he buffs at c6 and his cons are helpful

[@brisenocturne1441]

@@justsomeguy727 yes. because putting XQ, Bennet, XL and Fischl in every team with each new character IS SO MUCH FUN! PREDATORY HSR COULD NEVER

[@aracnadei13]

@@justsomeguy727 Not really, because you don't need to pull or meta chase unless you want to. Also with how insanely generous they are compared to Genshin, it is fairly easy for F2P to pull often. The weapon system in HSR does have some complaints from me, but generally the support characters give you a lot of flexibility for team comps compared to Gorou, Fazuzon or Chiori who are only good for a small subset of characters.

[@aracnadei13]

@@nobody-xh6ii Thoma's shield is third best only when you stack skill, burst, and skill again on a fully built unit with BIS artifacts and even then you need a lot of on field time to get that shield up, or just use a half built Layla and have 100% uptime with almost zero effort. You can't just look at the amount of potential tanked damage when reviewing shields, that's disingenuous.

[@quadratos960]

I actually pulled more charaters on vers 4. than on 3. Probably because I like the new charaters and their playstyle. I feel like I have more fun playing Arlechino than Hu Tao, or Navia changed how Geo interact with other elements, or Neuvillette being so self sufficient. If they can somehow keep making good charaters, story-wise and gameplay-wise, to play than I'd still want to pull

[@hazer5397]

From a general design perspective, some things just can't progress further if it has reach it's peak, or at least only progressed slightly over time. I think with genshin that might be the case, they already established and popularized this style of gameplay (as far as becoming a benchmark or inspiration for some other games). So rather than making drastic changes on the actual gameplay, they just rely on creating interesting stories and characters and there's nothing wrong with that... The same reason why pokemon games are all similar, why doors have knob, or how laptop design never changes much, or why smartphones uses touchscreen, they simply works wonder and don't need to be changed. So in my opinion, it's not really a problem it's just how design works

[@dominosquash]

ngl, i dont really see this as an issue. i get to play new fun teams in events where they have trial characters, so i don't feel like i'm missing out there. i don't feel pressured to pull for new "op" characters (i dont have neuvillette or nahida) because i'm comfortable with the characters i already have. i get to pull for people i really like and i enjoy the new combat experience with them. if i had some incentive to pull for new characters all the time outside pulling fot the ones i enjoy, i would feel pressured to pull more and that would stress me out.

[@crazylife4543]

Probably why the new gamemode is gonna be a huge character check, to basically one up players who already have a handful of dedicated built characters who dont spend/pull

[@Axterix13]

If you only have a handful, sure, though you will have the trial characters to use. But I reckon most players have a decent variety of characters leveled up and/or built. So I'll use Hu Tao instead of Arl. 3 elements we can pick from, trial characters, borrow one from a friend, and it is Genshin "we don't want to give players anxiety" Impact, so overall, it won't be that bad. Don't get me wrong, they'll tailor things to push us toward certain characters, just like they do with the Abyss. And by giving us trial characters, they hope it'll interest us in those characters and we'll consequently pull. But if you have a mature account, I don't foresee big difficulties.

[@abhiss6705]

Not really , for one you can borrow 1 and get 6 trial chars. The hardest mode requires 18 chars. We don't even know if easy mode gives you 80-90% of the rewards and the difficulty slider is just there to test long time players. The minimum requirement is level 70 as well.

[@TheRoleplayer40k]

Not really, just ignore the last lvls and miss what, one pull a month? Basically nothing at all, who cares.

[@Ayaya044]

There're 1 or 3 characters per region that actually change the way you play the game but outside of that everyone else is destined to be the "replacement of" or a simple side grade. For example since Sumeru I have only pulled for Nahida, Nilou and Furina and once I get bored I just quit playing and wait for the next region, I did that with Inazuma, Sumeru and with Fontaine I'm planning on playing a little bit more before quitting and then return once we get some info regarding the pyro archon's banner.

[@RoboVirtue]

You could argue that the new nightsoul mechanic makes some new characters more appealing but nightsoul isnt really required outside of natlan related content. New abyss does require nightsoul for some of the enemies but it's cheesable if you have the dmg.

[@impostorsyndrome1350]

People needing more characters is wrong in itself. It will never lead to happiness or satisfaction, cause you'll always be thinking "what's next", "what's the next character", people need external stimula/-i to fund their brains, while, if you found peace inside yourself, you can be completely contempt and happy with what you have. Similar stuff works irl, too.

[@athulkrishnavettukattil1426]

More units like nilou and xianyun that can change entire playstyle should be released. they both have a something special in their combat design which feels unique and appealing

[@ShevaAlpha2002]

Hoping Emilie to be a Dendro support that specializes in burning reaction.

[@donnyv4750]

Yes! There's a lot of untapped reactions. Burning , burgeon, crystalize (Navia doesn't count bc she doesn't change the reaction), electro charged, melt. Those are all reactions that can clear but they are lagging behind the other ones. Id love to get a character edits designed around buffing or changing melt, electro charged, or burgeon.

[@Balbaneth]

I dunno fontaine characters for me just feel a heck of a lot better to play. Arlecchino does away with nearly every possible annoyance that the older cast has for pyro. Uses every part of her kit including her charge attack..the fact you don't have to hit a enemy to apply the main part of her kit including harvesting. Both have a alarming range including her normals. Not to mention keeping her infusion nearly all the time in both moc/events and open world. People say why but I've seen mainly Fontaine in groups and very rarely older regions anymore. Still I want more things for Arlecchino to cut through I'm hyper obsessed with seeing her tackling combat that I know i won't get tired of her. When it comes down to it I want more combat

[@Praxics0815]

Yes there is a point to pulling for characters of a type you already possess... the kit application, weapon handling and ultimately also aesthetics. You conveniently ignored that a kit is not used the same way. Hu Tao, Diluc and Arlecchino may all be Pyro DPS characters. They do the same thing: Damage and utilize Pyro reactions. But they are not playing the same nor look the same. Hu Tao is usually played with normal attack > charge attack > animation cancel playstyle. Diluc is weaving his elemental skill into a rotation of normal attacks and these days even combining him with Xianyun to utilize his plunging attack multiplier and Arlecchino is a normal attacks spam sort of character. They not really playing the same while doing the same. Arlecchino is most comparable to Yoimiya in playstyle however Yoimiya is using a bow and Arlecchino a spear. The difference is irrelevant to some but to others it may matter if it is a sword or great sword. The point is that while they may do the same they not doing in the same way and may very well matter. How rotations and the teams work is a selling point. I really like Arlecchino not just because power creep (I mean I do enjoy that she wipes the floor with everything) but also because her rotation is not like Hu Tao. I got Hu Tao back then and she never was a character I liked using because of her rotation despite being formidable in power back then. You are making a case for power or feature creep to sell or buy stuff and I'm really against that. I stopped spending my dolphin money (express supply pass) on HSR because of it. It feels like just running after the next unit that will solve my issues with whatever game mode the devs came up with this time around instead of units that I may enjoy for trivial reasons like "oh that looks cool". Genshin makes billions (with a B) already. Enjoy that you can save up for units you like because of rotations or aesthetics rather than necessity to actually solve an issue that the game invented in the first place...

[@beaversz]

It is hard balance between introducing new stuff and power creeping. I quit HSR because it was impossible for me to keep up (content and character wise) as a F2P. But I do agree that it has been YEARS since genshin's released and it feels relatively the same.

[@Safineya]

I started HSR way later like 6 months after release and by now I got all characters I like and it doesn't feel like I can't keep up as f2p. It's true you can't go after everyone but I focusing on DoT cuz I love seeing enemies die from literall cancer never had the problem of not being able to keep up. Most of the game can be cleared with 4*s (golden gears and swarm) pure fiction you basically only need Herta which is free and another aoe dmg dealer and MoC...well...you can't win everything but you can still clear 33* easilly and maybe 36* with good enough MoC buff.

[@supacoolmeimei]

As a casual player, I actually really enjoy the fact that genshin doesn’t have too much changes or additions in terms of combat. I don’t really keep up with meta, so it took me a while to figure out the new Dendro reactions when Sumeru released and Dendro combat was very uncomfortable for me for a longer time than I’d like to admit. I also still haven’t really figured out the pneuma/ousia combat mechanics.. but I’ll get there. Personally, I really like the fact that despite going on for nearly four years now, there’s not that much powercreep in genshin. I can leave for a few months and come back and still be able to beat all the new content with my old characters, and I can pull for characters based on preference instead of a combat requirement. I dont want to be forced to pull for new characters just to be able to beat new combat mechanics, especially if they powercreep my old characters. One of my favorite things about genshin is that you can really use whatever characters you’d like. Even ‘bad’ characters like qiqi, xinyan, dehya, etc are very usable if you invest enough in them, and you can fairly comfortably complete all the storyline and open-world combat even with very old characters like Diluc and Venti, and with enough investment you can even complete all the meta content like Spiral Abyss with those characters too. I still understand why hardcore meta players would be disappointed with genshin’s lack of development in the combat system, but I and a large percentage of the genshin fanbase enjoy how the combat system still hasnt changed, and you can prioritize playing with characters you actually enjoy instead of the characters that perform the best in the meta

[@TheAwesomePal]

I’ve gotta say I like that new genshin characters are “pointless” it means there’s no true “must pulls” even kazu and zhong can be skipped with enough free investment which I’d say is a very good system. The fans love to have an outcry if a five star is “locked” behind a con like hu tao and neuv. Imagine if they release a five star that is a true must pull because otherwise content is nearly impossible

[@arraine]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "casual" players (it's hard to think of 3+ years of daily play as casual, but I understand the definition you put forth) have been eating well the past couple of years. It's hard to understand many of the criticisms of the game when the reasons I play games are storytelling, character development, and map completionism. I've never been great at combat so it is familiar to me to replay a game over and over to slowly master it over the course of years - so Genshin still feels fresh to me because I've only recently started to feel really competent instead of fighting for my life.

[@Arandomguy30]

Slight correction: GameFreak makes the games and Nintendo publishes them, the latter has no say on how the games turn out.

[@RoxasMatheson]

If you could link the East On-Air video in your description or pinned comment that'd be great, thanks! I know it's a simple search, but it just makes sense to me to link a referenced video :P

[@PrinceJoshuaReyesTV]

I really want an Elysian Realm mode in Genshin, where they add old units only with an enhanced kit. This way, most players will most likely have them in their account already and they will be motivated to build them to experience the new playstyle while also enjoying the rewards of this new mode.

[@starryplatinum]

very well explained. people who say charcters are content always forget we need more diverse endgame combat to test and use that content in the first place. the only feesable reason would be to pull for characters if you like them. HoYo knows this and capitalizes on this too well, so now HoYo has developed this mentality of "if it's not broke, don't fix it". really saddening and frustrating stuff. i just hope they never go down the route every other gacha goes down; mega content powercreep and unit powercreep, that would be SO BAD.

[@mostaphabahy]

Bro is looking at leaks?

[@Aha-is-elation]

Hhh sure 😂

[@ibrahim5463]

Its hard not to

[@maingrader4434]

I mean its actually hard to avoid leaks rn

[@plvto1]

they're fucking everywhere. it's not like they're in a contained spot like a discord server or a forum board, they just post them.

[@njb982]

Every content creator does, it’s literally the only was to have a consistent channel that doesn’t fall off every 2 months

[@sonadowfiend]

The most recently released character I have built is Nahida. Every single Abyss cycle is easily handled by Raiden National and Nahida-Kuki Hyperbloom. The realization that I no longer needed new characters set in so long ago that I don't even spend Resin anymore, except for three weekly bosses on Mondays for Battle Pass Points... that I know I don't really need. Now there's talk of some new game mode that is a blatant attempt at coercing players into pulling for more units, by gating the Elements allowed inside and requiring something like 12 or 16 characters instead of 8. I can't imagine myself caring, because what would be my reward for going through the hassle of building (and getting Artifacts for) that many more characters? More Primogems to get *yet more* characters?? That's honestly just not good enough, anymore.

[@Gwen1661]

Saying there's no merit or point in pulling for new characters gives off the vibes of dismissing the hard work it goes into creating all of these behemoths and making them all feel distinct from one another gameplay wise, at least from the developers POV. playing with diluc is not the same as playing with hu tao or arlecchino, the same goes for every character. thats why outside of meta talks there's a lot of people who play whoever they want. that could include meta units, yes, but it is also the character they like the most for lore reasons, aesthetic reasons or gameplay reasons outside of power. my first mains had nothing to do with power but with my gameplay preferences; beidou in particular is the only character with any sort of counter or parry mechanic, hence why i mained her for so long and why i still play as her on occasion. she may not be my main anymore but it's not because there's a new character with a kit that plays as good (to me) like hers that has a counter mechanic.

[@flytelp]

Who’s saying they feel distinct from each other? They are all on-field pyro dps that do much more damage with reactions. Diluc is clunky and immobile with his 3e but it’s the exact same gameplay loop as every other pyro dps; set up supports, repeatedly hit. Hoyo only adds room for unique playstyles through new characters like xianyun or chevreuse. There’s next to no ability to customize your playstyle when the combat is so easy and repetitive. I’d imagine it’s hard for hoyo to come up with unique gameplay when they have to consider mobile and console players that can’t easily do complex movements like pc.

[@wraithhe]

​@@flytelpthat's funny considering they have Honkai Impact 3rd which was exclusively a mobile game for years and even that had really complex gameplay with characters and an actual competitive endgame. Genshin is clearly a casual cashcow hence the devs do the bare minimum and most of the playerbase will happily accept it

[@Gwen1661]

@@flytelp There's no way you think Diluc plays the same as Hu Tao. Yes, they're both on field DPS but their move sets and kits are completely different and they use different weapons. Even between Hu Tao and Arlecchino, who have the same element and weapon, do not play the same. Every character plays in their own unique way. There's a reason why there's dedicated mains for every single character, even the ones that are considered "bad/D tier". There's something about their kits that scratches a specific itch in people.

[@tinarex1173]

​@@Gwen1661Like it or not they are all functionally the same thing pyro on field dps that are usually paired with xingqiu or yelan

[@Helyx10]

I honestly like genshin's combat as bad as I am its so satisfying when I get to do a proper rotation even with high ping. Also I just pull for the sake of pulling its like getting a new toy if I dont get it then I don't play as much but when I do get the character then I play a bit too much so its kind of a nice balance. I love the characters the story and the big open world to explore

[@figlet6427]

Nah ur so valid, high ping is a form of hardcore endgame in itself lmao😭💀

[@Jinni-iras17514]

are you on mobile? If not, do you have an Ethernet cable?

[@VrtielA6300]

👎

[@Jaview06]

You don't need to need a new character in order to pull for them. There are many other reason for why you would pull for a new character, for example you could pull for a character just because you want them. So just because you don't need new characters doesn't mean there's no reasons to pull for them. If i didn't roll for new characters because I don't need them, then I would still be using albedo. But instead of doing that I rolled for chiori be I like her and didn't want to deal with albedo problems anymore.

[@menarg1549]

I feel like Fontaine so far has just been DPSes and Supports are the characters that can unlock new things like imagine if we had more than one character that had good off-field pyro application, or more than one big attack buffer the DPS fatigue is real for me, i love Clorindes design (and leaks) but i don't know man i got plenty of DPSes already

[@brutalterminator3868]

Also there's been a rumour that Cai Haoyu, one of the ceo of hoyo who used to supervise hi3 and now supervises genshin will soon move to zzz. Some hi3rd players said when Cai Haoyu used to supervise hi3, it had the same issues as genshin is having rn with no endgame and bad rewards etc and its when he moved to genshin is when hi3rd began to improve so maybe becuase of him genshin ain't improving? And when he moves to zzz we might se some change but who knows.

[@cr1ym]

if that rumor is actually true, this will be huge for us and horrible for zzz players

[@Izumocchi]

​@@cr1ym depending on who enters to replace him... This might be horrible. Imagine if the person who enters is all about powercreep and creating new meta defining characters? Hopefully it's someone with a good head on their shoulders

[@yourlocalyanfei]

This is why I don’t care about abyss at this point. I never really liked it since I started, but now I just don’t really care. I just pull for who I like and goof around instead of trying to minmax for meta since trying to do the latter will only make me burned out and bored. That’s just my opinion tho

[@Ellen777]

I don't even use new characters in the abyss .. it's mostly Hyberbloom , National or Nilou bloom for every cycle ..

[@raycigar6356]

Hyperbloom damage is overrated af

[@justsomeguy727]

​@@raycigar6356it really is lmfao

[@Ellen777]

@@raycigar6356 it gets the job done. ..

[@thatgreenplant1353]

Wdym overrated? The rewards are just the same if you clear a floor in 4 sec as If you just barely get three stars. Even a 4 star comp is capable of that

[@officially_sora]

For me, personally, the new characters can`t really introduce all that much of a new combat system. What they are *supposed* do to, or atleast what they *should* do, is open ways for none-meta, or just none-used characters, to join the meta and increase their usement rates. Like, for example, Furina did with Jean, Noelle and other full party healers Or Xianyun with each and every claymore character Also, I genuinly hope that the new Abyss will show Hoyoverse what`s possible, and then lead them to add even more new stuff in 5.0 with Natlan

[@elitovon2833]

The lack of different combat scenarios is why I finally gave up on the game over a month ago because if I could beat floor 12(4.5)with no trouble for the first time, why should I continue playing the game?

[@FemboiMuffin]

Maybe because of the lore

[@stephennegron7560]

​@@FemboiMuffin boring

[@viniciusespindola7238]

@@FemboiMuffin instead of sitting through endless dialogue boring quests, you could just watch some video and the experience would probably be better

[@salasy]

for the story? for fun? for the exploration? if the only reason you play a game is for the challenge there are tons of other games for it

[@meisterhyperion207]

True if you want a challenge go to dark souls. I like how casual Genshin is.

[@BlameItOnJoe]

To me, having achieved enough META consistency by having built a good roster of units let's me enjoy pulling for new units I like for their character side. It makes the experience less thrilling as a whole but in my case I now have HSR for that and in general more free time :D

[@roxef]

Vars still doesn't understand that people have different reasons for pulling characters besides "big number on screen."

[@You_Ate_My_Soap]

What what do you mean

[@Dawad2007]

Genshin is not a very hard game and the incentive of characters being on similar power levels is that if you like a certain character more than another you can skip them and pull for the one you enjoy more and still be able to clear most forms of content. The point is so you can use any character on any form of content and you could clear it no problem. Genshin is the type of game for the casual not the meta slaves. If mihoyo kept adding new mechanics that greatly increased difficulty, it would mean that certain characters are REQUIRED to clear it or make it manageable. I could use raiden and have a very easy time or i could use cyno who i might like more and still be able to clear the same content.

[@tranquility6789]

I feel like this game isnt entirely meant to be combat focused. Think about it. All of the complaints about a lack of endgame or other related complaints doesn't really stick if you aren't too interested in them. Theyve added both the teapot and more importantly, TCG, which has to be popular enough to get its own tournaments, and constant updates. They'd probably have no clue what the combat players are talking about. And as for adding new endgame content, I'd personally love it, but I feel like genshin caught itself in a catch 22 scenario here. If they dont add combat related endgame content for the hardcore playerbase who complains, people complain. If they do, and it is too easy for them, they will complain about it being too easy like the rest of the spiral abyss. But if it is hard enough to challenge this playerbase, they will be ok, but players without meta characters, or who haven't taken the time to get good in one way or the other, a lot more people will complain, and i think this is where the weird and yet relevant "anxiety" problem comes in.

[@Star_Rattler]

1:51 the lineup of characters here almost looks like an Animorphs transformation XD

[@levi3248]

Calling lore players the “casual” player bass is absolutely insane, like no casual player is doing aranara, narcissenkruiz, Enkanomiya, character stories, weapon and artifact lore, manga, books etc. The casual player base are people who don’t go to the full extent in anything, lore or combat. Being hardcore lore is arguably harder than hardcore combat since there’s SO MUCH lore and very little to do in combat

[@jhonMV713]

idk i feel like if they honed in on certain niches there are still some options for new characters to actually bring a new experience to the game. I mean take the Plunge teams with Xianyun, the Mono element teams could be rounded out for all elements, even Nilou-Bloom which is a super niche focus on a single reaction type. Honestly even just introducing new characters whose sole purpose is to buff existing subpar characters could work. I'd pull for a character who made Dehya decent to good. same with Eula and Klee

[@vladdyru]

Little bro is asking for the introduction of unit powercreep, disparity and even more FOMO. What a great take.

[@dMb1790]

Idk, I enjoy the combat just as much as the exploration, so I’d be happy with the characters evolving the way they are if they would add new areas more often, or since I doubt that’s feasible maybe just respawn the chests and puzzles in old areas every so often. Assuming they keep doing frequent events and perhaps add new quests more often. Basically, as long as there’s always something interesting to do, I’d be perfectly fine with the way they put out new characters. I think that hoyo is pretty good at making new characters actually feel new and interesting. My only problem is I keep running out of content, and then it’s just a waiting game for new area’s and quests. (Though I do think they could find some way to make the abyss more interesting.) Edit: Case in point, I wasn’t planning on getting Arlecchino because I thought her kit just sounded complicated and annoying. ( The only BoL I’d experienced was those stupid Fatui operatives) However, I had so much fun playing her in her trial that I used my Chlorinde fund to get her C1R1, and I don’t regret it one bit. I’ve been having a blast.

[@justinflores3771]

The problem is NO contents in a game based on FIGHTING?? There is no endgame because everyone just wants to pick mint with no powercreep meaning the same old units are fucking OP

[@hilo01]

That's what I have in mind too. Even the story quests are relatively very easy in the eyes of "casual" people (I can't recall any other game with this anomaly. Other games would require a certain level of thinking/strategizing to proceed. Not talking about Endgame though, just the Main Story Quests). It's probably why the narrative about powercreep in Genshin is negligible.

[@rev2059]

​@@hilo01idk about that story quest bit. With recent example of Wuthering waves where the entire story is trivial this argument falls flat

[@Nova-hn5iq]

My idea of pulling for a charecter is that if u like the look or the play style of them, get them it's up to your opinions of the charecters if u enjoyed to whole style of the charecter or if u want to try a different team u can still get the charecter that's my whole mindset of it all but at the end of the day I just pull on whatever banner I feel like I just pull one of the two banners untill I get the charecter or the standed five star

[@Triforce9426]

At least Genshin's not doing what HSR is that being practically requiring the new hot character in order to full clear the new MoC and PF that accompany them.

[@justsomeguy727]

It's either have the shiny hot new thing or slave away at the game like a 9-5 dedicated religious practice so that your teams can keep up with it.

[@marimo7045]

The problem with your statement is that new characters are never required to full clear moc and pf. Just checking my clear and my friends clears in game i see so many people using clara for 2nd half, a 1.0 standard 5 star.

[@antharu3235]

Skill issue..I still clear moc with old char like kafka/danil/seele/Jingyuan.. Pf Himeko/herta still clap those modes ez..and blade/jingliu combo. Sometimes even clara clap all modes lmao..

[@MrGoodra17]

​@@marimo7045Clara enjoyed spotted 🤝

[@kison7715]

​@@antharu3235 hecc 4* units only for moc & pf is not even impossible.

[@Jdogrey1]

Just a note: the casual player base is also the player base with the most money, so appealing to them is the obvious way to make more money. This does not work in their other games because their other games simply do not have content worth playing without harder content and lots of power creep.

[@Rosaria_22]

I personally LOVE that there isn’t that much end game content and focus on combat, I love that they focus on character story,main story and exploration because that’s what I love about the game and there’s already many other games that are more fighting focused like star rail. It makes me happy that genshin does its own thing and keeps being good at it, I hate fighting games and meta so it makes me feel happy that the game is more focused on non meta stuff lmao

[@rona-z2376]

i'm a c0 enjoyer so i always pull for characters i don't have and build them of course. i do that to all gacha games i played. sure i can clear all contents with just the starting characters i got but i get bored if i use the same team all the time. the game difficulty is good enough for me as i don't really wanna stay ingame sweating or have the energy to play full time. what excites me are the new the stories and new areas to explore. Quality of life updates are very much appreciated too. sometimes there are events i don't enjoy and other time there are some I want to stay in game permanently.

[@Alastor-x]

Imagine thinking that the leading company's sales strategy is flawed and that they have to change how they sell their characters. This is a hard pill to swallow for many but Genshin has its target audience and that audience is not interested in combat. The new "endgame" mode will change nothing about the game's philosophy about character's kit design/powercreep.

[@pinkraven7043]

What you discussed is why, even though I think shes cool, I won't be pulling for Clorinde. I already have a hefty number of DPS units, and Raiden Shogun + Fischl satisfy my Electro needs. The only reason I pull on banners nowadays is if I am that desperate to C6 a 4-star (Please come home again Layla.) I MAY pull for Seigwinne but that's only because I want more healing units and I don't have Kokomi. THOUGH rumors say Seigwinne isn't that great 😢 I think your Pokemon analogy works a little bit. I think GameFreak deserves more credit than MiHoYo in that their efforts to change each region are noticeable and pretty big. For example, I think Pokemon's story telling, world building, and characters has massively improved with every game. While the basic game play formula continues, everyrhing else has evolved. For example- I'd argue that Sword and Shield, for all its mishaps, has some of the best human characters and development of the main games. And Scarlet and Violet has 3 of the best rival characters since (in my opinion) Cheren and Bianca. And I genuinely love Kieren and his downfall and eventual development. Genshin does play with the same model of "introduce new characters and hope they appeal to someone." BUT compared to Pokemon, they can't develop these characters past a certain point. When they're no longer needed for main quests, Genshin characters are reduced to their most basic traits for other appearances. Diluc and Kaeya will likely never fix their relationship. Fischl will never grow up from her Chuni tendencies. Albedo may never have anything bad happen to him and Mondstadt despite the hype around his capabilities. Itto will continue to be the goofball Oni who will forever be dunked on. Xiao will continue to have some of his "edge." Ayaka will continue to be the most barebones Yamato Nadeshiko archetype in the game. Kaveh will continue to have self-loathing. Layla will never graduate and earn a good rest. Will Scara actually confront the people who wronged him and vice versa? Etc. Etc. Not that character development doesn't exist in Genshin. Cause it does, but in bite-sized quantities (like Xiao in the Chasm Interlude and every Lantern Rite.) Enough to maintain the character's status quo while providing a hint of change. What this means for me- personally- is that I do get burnt out on these characters at some point. Recently I started having this feeling of "whats the point of being invested in any of them when Genshin will eventually move onto the next region and seemingly ignore the others?" At least with Pokemon games, there are characters who receive development and it's completed by the end of the game. You feel like they've opened new doors for themselves. They've grown and will keep growing. Genshin's way of doing it, on the other hand, does the exact opposite. Player characters are reserved to main story quests and interludes. So once those are done, the characters themselves are stuck. Development only happens in crumbs that are spread out throughout the year. We haven't had an event that's done any proper lore drops with playable characters in a long time. And the events characters do show up in are just for fun. They mean nothing and won't be brought up again. I guess my point is- Pokemon's characters tell a story and it's a complete one. Genshin's characters have tons of stories, but 90% of them will never be explored or completed due to its game model and presentatuon. So at some point, I can feel myself thinking "what's the point of caring about these characters stories anymore?" Apologies for the essay. I love both franchises. Comparing my experiences with them really puts some things into perspective.

[@nathanielmorey2800]

Using new characters, especially when they’re involved in the story is so satisfying. I did arlechinos story quest with lyney, Lynette and freminette and let me tell you being beaten by her was lore accurate! They did not synergize or have much in the way of healing so I mostly ran around trying to learn her attack patterns and made it with one of them left under half health. I definitely want more combat content but genshin doesn’t have enough characters yet that it feels stale story wise, though abyss I’m just using my meta teams

[@starace4031]

Firstly I want to say thank you Vars for making this video and sharing these points. It's always good sharing player perspectives and I havr no doubt that there are plenty of other players that feel the same as you. While I do see and understand your points, I guess I have a different perspective on it (which could be totally off mark like I have no authority over anything so people can feel feel to not feel the same and ignore this). For me, I started playing Genshin in mid 2022, so missed out on events and getting free 4 star characters/weapons, and time to use resin and build characters that older players would have gotten. But even so, I was still able to build up my account and have resources to wish and make fun teams. I made alt accounts to see what different wishing choices made and it's been fun utilising different characters. But a lot of time needed for it when balancing multiple accounts. 😅 For me, I appreciate not having literal 'must pull' units. I am f2p and don't have the income to be able to dolphin/whale for certain characters, and being f2p there may not be enough time to gather the primos to wish for a character and if say a character did change up the game so much, it would mean I would be missing out on a lot of new features for a long while which wouldn't be fun. Having pulls in Genshin be optional that provide fun experiences to those that get a character but aren't necessary for every player, imo is a strength to Genshin's gacha and makes it less predatory than it could have been (not saying that it isn't predatory at all bc gacha is gacha after all, but it could be a lot worse). Also while I think the domain idea is cool like a bow domain etc, I think it would mostly be fun for people that do spend money on the game and have a lot of new characters and able to invest a lot vertical in numerous units. Not every player will have strong dps teams for every element/weapon type so I can understand that maybe being a reason that they haven't implemented that type of thing. Technically any domain could be a 'insert specific team here' challenge if you as a player chose to use those units. It's nice having the flexibility to choose to participate in challenges rather than everyone having to have certain characters to unlock content like a domain. Like if every player had to have a well invested geo team to complete a domain, when a lot of players have already decided if they were/weren't going to invest in that team and thus some will and won't be able to complete this challenge. And if they wanted to but didn't have the units like Itto, Zhong Li, Albedo/Chiori, Gorou then it would take a long time to acquire those characters and/or weapons. So I do think Genshin is defo due some updates and more permanent content, I do think there are pros of it's current approach to characters. I think it's just worth considering multiple player perspectives in this is useful because there is a difference to how the game feels to different players whether that is how much/little money they have invested in the game or time or what platform they play on etc, also how different a player that isn't a cc feels about the game vs content creators that play the game. Different intersections and differences in opinion I'm sure. Anyway, I hate how long this comment is, apologies for this ramble. I probably haven't been able to explain everything very well and again, my opinion may not mean much. Great video Vars, very interesting as always to watch. 😊 Hopefully future updates to Genshin will bring about new & loved content for everyone to enjoy.

[@faridahamad1568]

To me im grateful that genshin is a casual game. look what happen when its sister game HI3rd embrace power creep as its core. the meta chase is brutal and the FOMO is all time high even after so called 2.0 upgrade. My take is, genshin sells character design and aesthetic 1st , utility and niche 2nd and dps potential 3rd. Thats why they employ drip marketing cause it give lasting impression. Plus, consistent addition of new character is basic sign of game stability especially in gacha sphere.

[@Melotaku]

Your ideas about new types of endgame content are great! I love challenges that limit your roaster and force you to make do with what you have. And very harsh ones at that. Not just, this enemy has a pyro shield, you need someone that can break it. That’s not enough. I love that bow dungeon idea. I only have Tighnari as a bow main DPS, so that dungeon might encourage me to pull for Yoimiya and Ganyu. Who I have no desire to pull for (even though I do like them as characters) because I have pyro and cryo dps covered already with Hu Tao (and Diluc) and Ayaka. I’m going to be pulling for Clorinde if she’s really fun. But if she’s not, I’ll likely skip because I have no other reason to pull her. And on that note I have no reason to pull anyone anymore because all of my bases are covered already. I can already 36 star abyss. I don’t NEED anyone. Edit* After reading some comments, I realized stuff like this would lead to players feeling forced to pull for too many characters like in HSR. I don’t want that. Maybe this isn’t as good of an idea as I thought.

[@flying-ship]

I like the fact that as a day 1 player, I feel I'm under _no pressure_ to pull new characters: skipped Neuvillette (twice) and Arlecchino in order to secure Furina (lost 50/50 on her release) and aim for C2 Xianyun. And I'm not getting a slightest hint of FOMO. It's been 3.5 years and I still can complete everything with Diluc, my first 5-star. Genshin must be one of the most 'anti-powercreeping' gacha games around - _"HSR could never"_

[@toospooky5929]

If the options are stagnating gameplay with no reason to pull or MASSIVE POWERCREEP like every other gacha then I'll take the former. Games aren't meant to be played forever, though I'm sure Hoyo would like it if I did. You mentioned Star Rail, but that's already powercreeping like crazy, Boothill invalidates every other Hunt single target damage character and the elemental weakness system in general, Aventurine is the best sustain with only Fu Xuan even vaguely close, Acheron is only held back from being straight up broken by her Nihility teammate limitations, just get E2 lol. You can try to expand systems, but if they add another Dendro or delusion element swapping too much they cannot possibly balance that with the huge variety of characters already in the game. Maybe it's time to just play the main quests, and not log in every day anymore.

[@jacoblopingco116]

I agree with most points here aside from one. At the beginning, you said that story or casual players have been eating good for the past couple years. As someone who plays for the story, I can't agree with this. While the archon quests are still as fantastic as ever, flagship event stories have been in decline ever since version 3. They used to introduce so many interesting things to the plot, but now they aren't really relevant to the grand scheme of things. While they have a good story on their own, they don't tie into the rest of the game like past ones did. Past events used to affect how you percieve archon quests and even other events and really helped with the world building, but now while they are still great stories, they feel isolated from the rest of the game. The main argument against this was that new players would miss out on things, but I really just can't express I miss pre-version 3 events. They gave me more incentive to log into the game, while now, I just play during the archon quest part of an update and leave for the rest of the year. I don't really know how they could fix this, maybe replayable events could be a thing, but as they always say, "Genshin could never." Really hopes this changes in version 5, because I want to enjoy the game like I used too.

[@raihanrusli2720]

One big reason for this is because unlike hsr, the event is limited. I myself complain a lot lately because most flagship events we see are just festivalsl themed. They are not bad but being almost on every version is bad. I really want to get a flagship event with kinda like incident based stories like scaramouche's 1.1, and albedos 1.1 2.3, and I think the last one is enkanomiya 2.6. Oh yeah also with this, I remember that some flagship events took place on expansion maps rather than the center of the city. Sometimes flagship events like this has some interesting lores. But because of the feedback they receive, instead of making the events permanent, they decide to just make the story non relevant to the main story like you said

[@bennyjay7605]

Can I ask what you mean by events tying in to the rest of the game? My issue with pre-version 3 events was that important story context was in them, such as Scaramouche going AWOL with the gnosis (or Scaramouche's introduction; I didn't start until version 2 so I had no idea who he was). Missing the gameplay of older events is part of the trade, but missing out on key info for the main archon quest is such a negative, i feel.

[@Axterix13]

I'd argue that the archon quests can be hit or miss as well. Fontaine's, in particular, felt more like 3 character quests than a cohesive archon story. First one is about Lyney, and could just as well have been his character quest, though it did introduce a few things that were important to the main plot. So all things considered, a good start, except it tried to turn the game into a Phoenix Wright game, and that was annoying. But then we go to the prison. This didn't feel like it had much to do with the story at all, and locked us into a very boring area that was annoying to navigate. I don't think there's a worse archon quest story in the entire game than this one. Even the attempts to tie it into the story felt rather pointless, and the whole thing could easily be cut. And then we get 4.2, which, like with Inuzama's story, felt like a rushed conclusion. Boom, end of the water plot here. Didn't really dive much into the backstory, other than Furina's (and because that's sad, people got teareyed and think Fontaine's archon quests as a whole were good). Ignoring major flaws, like just how the rebellion in Inazuma was wasted, so was Wrizzy's boat. He built this major thing to what? Fish a few people out of the water? Sorry, but more, smaller ones would be way better for that purpose. But, hey, 4.2 was archon time, so we got to wrap this up, who cares if it hurts the story? The whole thing just felt disjointed, a collection of parts, rather than a cohesive whole. Archon quest-wise, it doesn't hold up to Liyue or Sumeru's. And meanwhile, we've neglecting the search for our sibling. Haven't been investigating the Abyss Order at all. Because we'd rather hang out at a camp for child soldiers, pretending we're cool with hanging with a villain like Arl, and, even though the story could easily give the illusion that our actions matter yet still arrive at the same outcome, well, it gives us a trivially easy fight to win... and then tells us we got whooped instead. I definitely didn't. I crushed that child killer without breaking a sweat. Garbage quest, all around, that one was.

[@jacoblopingco116]

@@Axterix13 While I do agree that I like the Sumeru archon quest more, archon quests are still pretty good overall, at least in comparison to recent event stories.

[@jacoblopingco116]

@@bennyjay7605 I think the trade off is worth it. You can catch up on any content you missed by watching a playthrough on KZbin, and I mean exactly what you said. I want events to be more dramatic and connected to the main plot. New players might hate this, but all old players will remember how good pre version 3 events were. 1.2, 1.6, 2.3, 2.5, and 2.7 and 2.8 are still my favorite patches to this day. I didn't even play in 2.3 and 2.5 because I was busy with a masters degree, but I still enjoyed them because I was able to watch their story on KZbin whenever I had free time.

[@wintervenom]

After becoming an HSR player and having all sorts of diff endgame modes to experiment with combat, characters, and playstyle; Genshin just seems so lackluster and boring in terms of combat. Which is so sad bc the characters themselves are great in terms of versatility and combat system is really fun, but exactly as you said; it just feels like there’s no point bc there’s nowhere to really use and experience fun combat challenges in the way there is in HSR. Like why spend on more characters, go thru so much time and effort to build them; only to have nothing but the very limited abyss to use the character on. Sometimes there are characters I really like and want, but I get them and it’s like ok what now? Praying to the genshin gods to pls make mihoyo give us more endgame combat modes bc when I like a character and like their playstyle I really want to be able to have more combat challenges to use the character in.

[@WackyChu]

its not that they’re pointless it’s they don’t being any value to my account. i have all elements and roles filled. i can easily clear abyss. i dont need any upcoming fontaine or natlan unit honestly. i just pull for who i like now or who’s meta lol.

[@notghoxst7047]

everytime a new character comes out people ofc pull them because their strong but mostly because they like that character. if you just use a really op unit like neuvi the whole time it just gets boring and i feel having new units is something that makes the game more fun. like for example, i was so excited when i got hu tao on her first banner because i loved how she played and looked and i liked her personality a lot, and now that shes an older character i dont really find her as enjoyable to play as to lets say a character like arlecchino for example whos fresh and new. that doesnt mean hu tao is bad or anything, its just using the same character over and over again just doesnt feel as enjoyable as pulling new characters and trying out new playstyles

[@berserkerf0x574]

Gonna be real honest here guys... 4 years and the combat is the same... Either You like it or play something else.

[@montanaripatrick]

You raise very important arguments, I hope this video gets a lot of views

[@rdbeef5645]

At first when I pulled and built Arlecchino she was a ton of fun but after running her through the spiral abyss I just felt like I could have used any one of my previous teams to do the same thing. Every new character seems to have a honeymoon period wherein they feel fresh and new, but now the shine wears off quickly and I end up playing old comfy teams within a couple months of the characters' release. Only supports like Furina stick around long enough to feel like they change my playstyle, but even then I feel like that's more to do with how her entire playstyle is two button presses that require no aiming or thought.

[@Djobaable]

I think if they were to release 6 stars alot of players would also leave the game after spending so much into getting their favorite 5stars. Sure it would also bring more difficulty. But i think it would cause alot of rage within the playerbase.