Vegans vs Meateaters | Debate at Brain Bar

Should we all go vegan right now? Watch the clash of restaurateur Wossala Rozina and urban hippie Gittemary Johansen and decide for yourself!
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[@MakiVerem12345]

How was this close? The vegan girl destroyed her, the other woman could not bring anything up besides culture and tradition

[@HeroesofNovember]

They dont chose those for debates who would absolutely destroy all vegans arguments (like Paul Saladino) Vegans kill many times more animals than those who eat grassfed beef. Veganism is also very damaging to the soil, bad for the bees and plant foods lack many important nutrients or are in poorly bioavailable form or in too small amounts.

[@williamsenior9587]

@@HeroesofNovember If you compare vertically grown vegan food to grassfed beef then more animals die. And 95 percent of animals are raised in factory farms. Almond milk is bad for bees and soild but fortunatly there are 29 other types of plant based milk. Can you name 1 essential nutrient that vegans lack? No because there arnt any ESSENTIAL nutrients.

[@benlee1651]

@@HeroesofNovember The biggest study ever conducted says differently. agrees fed cows still fart and bring co2 in the air, did you even listen to the video it takes triple more land to feed cows then to feed vegans.and vegan for a year and a half and still have all my nutrients so that’s a lie.

[@someguy2135]

@@HeroesofNovember Wrong! The largest organization of nutrition professionals declared- "The position of the American Dietetic Association is that appropriately planned vegan diets are healthful and nutritionally adequate and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases." pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/

[@someguy2135]

@@HeroesofNovember ​ Wrong. Animal agriculture uses a lot more crops than is used for human consumption. Any deaths from growing crops are even higher with animal agriculture that is not 100% grass fed. BTW grass fed cows are even worse for climate change, since they take more time to get to slaughter weight. Links on request.

[@Zoonofski]

Vegan argument: "Pain, suffering, torture, death, mutilation, slit throats, ground up alive, knee deep in own faeces, crammed into cages, rampant disease outbreaks. Meat eater: "Yeh but tradition and culture!"

[@jameswayton2340]

"'but i wanna'' is basically the argument every time.

[@blondboozebaron]

A straw idol easily burns.

[@eduh7950]

@@jameswayton2340 The argument is actually: "But I" (as in "me me me me me")

[@HeroesofNovember]

They don't chose those for debates who would absolutely destroy all vegans arguments (like Paul Saladino) Vegans kill many times more animals than those who eat grassfed beef. Veganism is also very damaging to the soil, bad for the bees and plant foods lack many important nutrients or the nutrients are in poorly bio-available form or in too small amounts.

[@user-nw2hq4kg8h]

don't get me wrong, tradition and culture are very important parts of human society but we CAN adjust our selves and all of our traditions in many ways and i think the safety of our beautiful nature, enviornment and planet are MUCH more important than religion and culture even if it a big part of who we are as a species and civilization. after all won't actually need to find an earth like fresh planet if we can rebuild our old traditions.

[@veggiemikeellis]

Love how this young person who has been vegan for only 9 months just schooled everyone in the room. The only reason she didn't win in a landslide was due to the cognitive dissonance of the non vegan majority in the room. Priceless.

[@Assassin99584]

Cognitive dissonance tho

[@janieswanson2549]

They aren't vegan. No need to make things up.

[@andyhemmings7363]

She didn't school anyone with the nonsense she espoused regarding the vegan ideology and the other woman was just as bad not knowing how to debate. This was the worst debate I've ever seen. My two dogs put up better arguments on food then these two numpties.

[@janieswanson2549]

@@nicksguitarlessons7482 Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it?

[@HeroesofNovember]

Will you admit that many times more sentient animals are killed when growing wheat than when producing grass fed beef?

[@vivek1nj1]

What a kind & compassionate soul this vegan girl has. God bless her.

[@aa-vr8li]

4:29 how is this possible for meat eaters to come up with this argument while it has been explained 100 billion times that 75% of the planted corn and beans are going to animal agriculture to feed tve animals

[@siddhanthravichandran3245]

I always feel like banging my head against the wall when I hear " Well plants can feel pain too " Argument. They can't.... But fine...let's assume that can feel as much pain as a cow . As u pointed out 70% of agricultural produce is going towards meat production... So by that stupid logic... More suffering is caused by the meat industry. How can these people not understand this?

[@allan_0307]

@@siddhanthravichandran3245 Dude, According to FAO's 2019 report titiled 'Global Food Security', the total global land meant for agriculture is 5 billion hectare. Half of it, i.e. 2.5 billion hectare, is allocated for agriculture to feed humans. The other 2.5 billion hectare is for livestock farming. About 2 billion hectare is grasslands, which is not naturally suitable for cropping. Only the balance 0.5 billion hectare land is suitable for cropping. But 0.2 billion hectare out of the 0.5 billion hectare is for oil seeds meant for human consumption. Now after the seeds are used, only the seed cake (waste) is given to livestock. So, totally only 0.3 billion hectare is soley meant for livestock. This report also tells about the constituents of livestock feed. About 86% of the feed consists of inedibles for humans (Grass from grasslands, residues/wastes from crops grown for humans and oil seed cakes). Only the balance is grains that can be consumed by humans. Now you may ask whether these grains could be diverted to humans to ensure food security. My answer is No. It is because, whenever they do cropping, the distribution is already pre-planned. Even after allocating these grains to livestock, we still have 1.3 billion tonnes of food wastage annually. So, how can you justify that livestock is contributing to food insecurity?

[@siddhanthravichandran3245]

I am saying we can use the 2.5billion hectare used for Livestock Is it not crazy to u that we are using half of all usable land for livestock ? Imagine if we used all 5 billion hectares

[@allan_0307]

@@siddhanthravichandran3245 Dude, didn't you read that grasslands are naturally not suitable for cropping? Already with 2.5 billion hectare that is allocated for human there is billions of wastage and surplus everywhere. Without managing that human induced wastage, you still want to blame the livestock?

[@siddhanthravichandran3245]

@@allan_0307 U think we feed livestock grass? No they are mainly fed soy... Because of its protein rich nature. That's why we are destroying the Amazon rainforest. Also the grasslands can be reforested and we can restore our biodiversity My entire point was that we don't want all of earths land to become a monoculture. Also ur considering the current situation... In 2050 the population will be 10 billion.. What then? Earths resources are immense... I agree... But it's not infinite.... We have to keep that in mind. ok... What about the antibiotics used in animal farming? This leads to resistance and probably will cause the next epidemic.

[@ChannieVee]

I love when meat eaters say being vegan is “radical”. Being compassionate and not murdering innocent beings is not radical, if anything it is the opposite. I believe that murdering is radical. Also, saying humans are carnivores and that we as animals have always done this and still do this is not correct. We are not obligate carnivores, in fact we are actually omnivores. And while you are correct that animals still do this, it has nothing to do with us as humans doing it. Animals killing in the wild is not a valid argument for what humans do. Again, we are not obligate carnivores like many animals who hunt. Obligate carnivores need meat to survive, and we do not. Even if we were, we do not hunt our own food, since we have introduced a disgusting system where we mass produce and slaughter animals who are bred into horrific factory farms. This is nothing like what you say “humans have always done”. It is the opposite. In the past, we hunted an animal and fed off of it combined with foraged vegetables and fruits etc. Nowadays we eat an unbelievable amount of meat since it’s mass produced, which is completely unnatural to what we used to do in the past. Regardless of your choices and whether or not you eat meat or dairy, do not use old and untrue arguments to validate your opinion. At least be honest with yourself.

[@janieswanson2549]

"Being compassionate and not murdering innocent beings is not radical," Murder is uniquely human and illegal. Slaughtering livestock is legal. You're appealing to emotion by conflating humans with livestock. "At least be honest with yourself." Okay... Why do you use animal products needlessly while claiming it is murder?

[@ewetube.videos]

Not all farms are horrible factory farms

[@user-yu7tp8jk1h]

Somebody actually wrote this much

[@ianmendoza8599]

@@ewetube.videos about 97% of them are factory farms

[@NordicFrog]

Murder means the premeditated killing of another HUMAN being. Humans have been eating meat and hunting for millions of years. Longer than we have been homo sapiens. It clearly is a part of our diet, like you yourself admit. So changing that diet, IS radical. We need meat to survive. There are many nutrients that we simply cannot get from plants.

[@123ChrisG]

Brilliant debate. Let’s be real here. No abuse or killing of any animal is ever justified, we do not want to live in a violent cruel world that abuses the most vulnerable.

[@Muskieangler]

Where do vegans draw the line? Chicken, fish, rodents, insects, tardigrades, microbes?

[@Huppyhuppyhuppy]

@Susan Sealy Data? I could also say that omnivores I know look like absolute shit, like most people on the street, so likely they eat terribly, but that is not proper data.

[@Huppyhuppyhuppy]

@@Muskieangler Veganism is not elimination of animal suffering, but by definition a minimization as far as possible and practicable. Vegan diets kill animals, the crops we eat kill animals, that doesn't mean that we cannot minimize those killings and the animal suffering. By adopting a vegan diet you kill much less animals in total, because you need much less crops if you feed of plants than if you filter the nutrients that plants give us through livestock, because meat and dairy production is very inefficient. When you feed crops to animals and then eat animals you get much less calories and also protein, than if you ate plants directly, and it is so inefficient that even if you consider the lower bioavailability of plant protein, you are still miles away from getting the same efficiency with animal products. So you need to much more land to produce meat and dairy than you would need for a plant based diet, therefore you kill much less animals directly and indirectly, so you are complying with the definition of veganism, minimize as far as practicable and possible the animal suffering. Resources: iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/11/10/105002/meta kzbin.info/www/bejne/bp7MgqZporV6q5o

[@Muskieangler]

@@Huppyhuppyhuppy I disagree that you kill less plants in total then. That is very difficult to quantify and very subjective to diet and where people source their food. I could make a case that by eating fish, I kill less creatures overall than most or all vegans.

[@Huppyhuppyhuppy]

@@Muskieangler Fish is probably the worst case, just the bycatch alone is probably worse than land animals. I gave you sources and studies, which are the best we have, and the Poore study is the most comprehensive. That is the best we can do with the best information we have, but the difference is so big that it would be highly unlikely to be wrong.

[@surfersofTerceira]

There are no arguments to not be Vegan.

[@robdee9341]

There are lots of arguments but none of them stand up..

[@earthpart3]

only bad ones by selfish people

[@annabelgrace1267]

@@earthpart3 So health is selfish? So feeding your baby cow's milk if you can't breast feed is selfish. Tell me why should a baby who needs all that good fat, be on an inferior product, such as soy milk based formula?

[@JD-FIES]

@@annabelgrace1267 no human baby needs the breast milk of another species.

[@annabelgrace1267]

@@JD-FIES Yes, they do. Not all mothers can breastfeed.

[@chetanyapandey5409]

the vegan speaker was so confident...and her comeback to that 'plants have feelings' thing is worth a watch!

[@janieswanson2549]

Not vegan. Learn the definition instead of spreading lies.

[@bobross7473]

@@janieswanson2549 if literally nobody in the world is vegan according to your standards, then why does the word even exist? It’s impossible to be 100% vegan, so we use the word vegan to describe people who don’t contribute to the meat, dairy, egg, and honey industry as well as don’t buy leather or wool and things like that.

[@janieswanson2549]

@@bobross7473 "if literally nobody in the world is vegan according to your standards," More fan fiction from you. I use the definitions of "vegan" and "veganism" created by the Vegan Society. "then why does the word even exist?" Like unicorn, cryptid, zombie, etc..? "It’s impossible to be 100% vegan" Thanks for confirming again that I am technically right. There is no percentage metric in any of the definitions. You either are, or you aren't. Anything else?

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@janieswanson2549 So Janie, please tell us what you ate over the last week. 😊 How many animal products have you eaten? Refusing to answer makes you guilty of hypocrisy and means you lose ❌ and vegans win. 😊✅

[@janieswanson2549]

@@NoInjusticeLastsForever You said you were done replying to me. Guess you can't tell the truth eh? It's up to you to prove I eat animal products since you made the original accusation. The burden of proof is on you. Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it? I know you won't answer this question honestly. You will instead ignore the question, lie, go into denial, evade, ignore, and/or justify it. Thanks for another automatic win. I accept your concession.

[@cynicalidealist11]

I wish i could hear just one sound argument against veganism. Guess I'll just have to keep waiting, maybe one day.

[@spatrk6634]

i dont need one. because veganism doesnt have any sound argument that can be used to support itself. its like saying that you want to hear sound argument against magical flying tea pot that is orbiting around saturn

[@earthpart3]

@@spatrk6634 There's no sound argument? Obviously you don't know anything about it

[@janieswanson2549]

@@earthpart3 "There's no sound argument?" That's right. You use products cut from the same dead animals that everyone else uses while you complain about how others use them. You lied about not using animal products and you're a hypocrite that pushes propaganda on others instead of practicing what you preach. Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it? I know you won't answer this directly and honestly, but I want others to see your moral hypocrisy. I predict you won't answer the question, you will go into denial, you will ask which animal products proving you don't do any research, and/or you will use a doctrine as a justification for using animal products needlessly for entertainment.

[@spatrk6634]

@@earthpart3 i still havent heard any reasonable argument from vegans. only cult like mentality, repeating the brainwashing material that they fell for. like "humans are herbivores" repeating something like a mantra doesnt make it true

[@earthpart3]

@@spatrk6634 cult mentality? What kind of cult wants peace amongst all living things that walk the earth? There are plenty of sound arguments on every debate video you can find you just don't want to hear them that doesn't mean they don't exist. The real brainwashing is what these industries do to people and how they make them think. That's why when you're a little kid or a baby you love animals and then society and all the commercials and bs trains you to believe that certain animals are just food it's absolute nonsense. If you choose to just ignore all the very obvious evidence then you're the one who's brainwashed

[@mattsapero1896]

You can eat vegan for a super cheap cost (whole foods) or you can buy all of the more expensive packaged products. Overall, eating plants costs less. The cheapest staples around the world are the cheapest in the grocery store. They’re all plants. Rice, flour, beans, lentils, etc. It’s not even close.

[@ponnamy]

Well said !

[@Mr66Farhan]

fyi most dead coz by vegan food such as alcohol tabaco weed etc maybe when u making this comment u were high af lul

[@mattsapero1896]

@@Mr66Farhan Hey, come back when you can speak proper English when you spew your lies, fool.

[@janieswanson2549]

@@mattsapero1896 To eat a proper and healthy plant based diet one would spend more than they would eating a proper and healthy omnivorous diet. Plant diversity isn't at a level currently where everyone could eat a plant based diet without heavily supplementing with supplements and processed fortified foods.

[@mattsapero1896]

@@janieswanson2549 Many of us take organic vegan supplements. So? Meat eaters are the most nutritionally deficient of all people. Look into it. It’s called science. You can find out I’m right in about 3 seconds using any search engine. Why do you people persist in your provable lies?

[@closebutnope4978]

Lol oh lord. The absurd plants feel pain argument is everywhere.

[@spatrk6634]

because its true. they may not experience pain like animals do. but they do feel

[@closebutnope4978]

@@spatrk6634 They react to certain conditions but that doesn't mean they're aware of being touched and purposefully reacting. There's no brain, and no nervous system. Whatever you're calling "feeling" is so drastically different than us and animals that this argument holds no water. There's no reason for plants to feel any sort of pain because they're rooted and are incapable of running away.

[@spatrk6634]

@@closebutnope4978 doesnt matter. they do feel. thats the point, and they are alive. fact that they cannot uproot and run away from predators means that plants develop toxins to discourage animals from eating them. i dont like to poison myself.

[@ponnamy]

@@spatrk6634 Who told you that ? Your senile grandma ?

[@ponnamy]

@@spatrk6634 There is millions of bacteria in your mouth. There are alive too. Each time you drinking water, millions of bacteria will be ingested and die. So, stop drinking water too. Show your mercy to bacteria too.

[@Androide323]

52 to 48 after being destroyed and not 100 to 0, that says something about the audience.

[@earthpart3]

yeah they made up their minds at the beginning, animal abusing losers. but they still lost like always even though their votes shouldnt even count

[@UniqueAngel888]

That may be because, even though she gave a great argument, the majority are meat eaters. So, even with that in mind, her winning the majority vote, is still good.

[@PooPooBanana2]

I know right? It's completely f*kd

[@jo88hn88]

Watch ‘Dominion 2018’ on KZbin if you want to know the truth about factory farming

[@jackmichaelpeter]

Vegan girl f**king smashed it

[@NotTodaySatan557]

cant fight facts

[@daleboxsell2805]

She looks like death warmed up.

[@jackmichaelpeter]

@@daleboxsell2805 really? You can’t sincerely think that. That’s hilarious. Also, her appearance is irrelevant as to if she won the debate

[@HeroesofNovember]

They don't chose those for debates who would absolutely destroy all vegans arguments (like Paul Saladino) Vegans kill many times more animals than those who eat grassfed beef. Veganism is also very damaging to the soil, bad for the bees and plant foods lack many important nutrients or the nutrients are in poorly bio-available form or in too small amounts.

[@jackmichaelpeter]

@@HeroesofNovember and how many people eat grass fed beef? Harley any. I’ve actually searched and emailed people to find some evidence purely grass fed beef. So most meat is not grass fed. So you only feel confident comparing grass fed beef to mass mono cropping of plants? What about a greenhouse? That would surely be the plant equivalent of grass fed beef? How about a fair comparison then. Grass fed beef= at least one life. Greenhouse vegetables = 0 lives How’s that for destroying your argument

[@MariaT-95]

Would anyone actually refute the statement about industrial livestock production being cruel??

[@henrywalton5967]

Industrial or not, it's all cruel. Slaughterhouses are cruel places for animals, make no mistake.

[@MariaT-95]

@@henrywalton5967 Absolutely agree, I'm just referring to the statement the are debating. I find it odd that it would be grounds for a debate at all.

[@henrywalton5967]

@@MariaT-95 sorry I kinda made an assumption there lol, yeah I know what you mean it's just an objective fact that animals are suffering in agriculture. The real debate should be if it's morally acceptable to do that to them. There was a lot of focus on environment and health in this which are important but it seems like a disservice to animals to talk about them more than animal rights.

[@MariaT-95]

@@henrywalton5967 all good. I agree, I think the perspective should’ve focused more on to what extent we justify hurting others for our own sake. But that would be “too radical” a perspective probably. :p

[@henrywalton5967]

@@MariaT-95 yeah right, this world is crazy 🙄

[@garibaldi54]

Our ancestors were also rapists, and infanticide is part of nature too. The only way we can provide our current levels of meat production is through intensive farming. There was no argument here. Just a person in denial making excuses.

[@valt3rnative]

I find it great how many people voted for Johansen, considering most of the people in that room weren't vegan or even vegetarian.

[@McCaffreyPickleball]

Awesome job vegan girl. Polite, enthusiastic and well-spoken. It's cow burps though (more so than cow farts) :)

[@wildcard5325]

I don't understand how you can make this argument. like cattle will still fart/burp out side of feedlots and pastures

[@McCaffreyPickleball]

@@wildcard5325 which argument? The one that cows are bad for the environment? Yeah, happy to answer that :) Two things.... 1. We forceably mass-breed cows into existence... And slaughter them a few years later. So if we stopped breeding them, their population would DRASTICALLY reduce. Assuming we continue slaughtering then at the same rate but not breeding them, we'd be down to under 10%the population in about 4-5 years. 2. Just a side point that Cows have trouble digesting the gains they're fed in factory farms... This this is what causes the methane burps.

[@janieswanson2549]

@@McCaffreyPickleball Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it? And that girl isn't vegan. No need to make things up.

[@McCaffreyPickleball]

@@janieswanson2549 quit trolling

[@janieswanson2549]

@@McCaffreyPickleball Can't answer a simple question? I accept that as your admission to using animal products needlessly and your concession.

[@RohitSharma-tl7cc]

Plants don't feel pain (as they lack receptors,central nervous system and brain) but Animals are sentients like us They feel Pain.

[@JerryTappan]

You did the animals justice here

[@thowaibabenslema1811]

The fact that the meateater kept making grimaces shows how immature she is. Gittemary, however, kept listing scientific facts.. #govegan

[@Gittemary]

💚💚💚

[@albablabla]

Gittemary is amazing. Her channel has helped me so much with my vegetarianism/ veganism journey and with sustainability.

[@sunitakhadka8594]

Very surprised by the vote result...it should have been 80-20 in favor of the vegan girl

[@smarandatta9308]

Tradition and culture🤣. As an Indian, with arguably the longest history of mankind, even during the ramayana, there were no such talk even about treating animals indifferently, what more torturing them, killing them and consuming them. So I think, these cultures are all started by an individual or a group who's personal opinions have caused such a massive false believe amongst the others, the origin has always been plant based and nothing more

[@socraticsimpleton]

I feel like we tend to forget, most people in the world don't have regular access to meat and for most of human history hardly anyway but royalty could frequently eat meat. When we say "culture," we mean the culture of the minority rich, not the many who had more bland and less animal based diets we don't want to talk about.

[@annabelgrace1267]

What longest history of mankind?

[@lisanyugenhascancer6332]

@@annabelgrace1267 the beginning of cultures

[@MrMking1991]

Meat eater main argument: "it is tradition and tastes great!" "I went to 'country X' and they served me 'animal Y' and it tasted amazing!" By this logic, she should not be opposed to eating human meat if she were to visit certain Amazonian tribes. Apparently they call it 'long boar' because it tastes delicious and similar to pigs. Hopefully she would realise that cultural traditions and taste preferences should not override the humans will to live. This should also apply to non-human animals.

[@emislavkova5902]

this comment deserves more likes

[@siddhanthravichandran3245]

Yess!! Exactly... Even slavery was a tradition once... Imagine her saying "well, all our grandmothers owned slaves and I really wouldn't have the time to express myself creatively without slaves taking care of all my tedious and mundane chores . Its possible to treat your slaves well and just because some people abuse them and rape them doesn't mean all of us slave owners do that. " Like bitch by that logic we shouldn't be using smartphones.... Ur grandmother sure as hell didn't have one . What a load of crap

[@mihaimarcu4435]

@@siddhanthravichandran3245 It's much easier to cherry pick which traditions and cultural practices you want to keep rather than aknowledge your apprehension and cognitive dissonance.

[@MrMking1991]

@Nixon Eli Striving to show compassion to those in need. So weak 🤔 ok mate ✌️

[@siddhanthravichandran3245]

@Nixon EliI sense toxic masculinity

[@IncDrop]

I'm from Buenos Aires, Argentina, and what she said about the "pampero" taking out the cow and killing it on the outskirts is completely bonkers. That doesn't happen, not even to the 0.01% of the animals. Most of the cows are still killed in the slaughterhouses. Even if what she said was true, it's not a nice way of being killed nor a pain free one. She has no idea what she's talking about and even if she was right, that meat would be highly expensive due to how much more time it would take to produce as much meat as a slaughterhouse.

[@AndiAOE3]

0.01% of animals in argentinia is still thousands of animals and so quite common

[@IncDrop]

@@AndiAOE3 for something to be common, doesn't need to happen to "a lot", it needs to happen to most of them. And, as I previously mentioned, it doesn't even reach the 0.01%

[@AndiAOE3]

​@@IncDrop I am not a native speaker, so i use the word common in english if it is something which happens on a regular, daily basis. Which it does, even according to your estimates. My point is, even if it is only 0.01%, and because there are so many animals in farms in argentinia, it still means it happens to several thousands of animals a year

[@IncDrop]

@@AndiAOE3 daily basis or not, something that happens to less than 0.01% of the population is not common.

[@AndiAOE3]

@@IncDrop My point is, even if it is only 0.01%, and because there are so many animals in farms in argentinia, it still means it happens to several thousands of animals a year

[@ashutoshsharma328]

There is no valid logical, scientific and ethical argument against Veganism... PERIOD!!! I am concluding this after watching hundreds of debates and scientific documentaries.

[@jmcwherterx]

Perhaps in first world countries, but how about third world? Tribes? Meat is a huge source of sustenance for them. So is the vegan debate primarily for first world?

[@amirpatel6051]

I think there are so many valid arguments against veganism too... As we start doing researching we get to know so many dark sides of veganism cult....

[@ponnamy]

@@amirpatel6051 Cult ? Yes , a cult of compassion !

[@GarudaLegends]

there is no reason to go vegan.

[@ponnamy]

@@GarudaLegends Unless you're compassion & intelligent !

[@AlbuquerqueBandit]

Wow, when they raised their hands... All that death, destruction, terror, hate, and fear that's inflicted by us due to the apathy and programmability of humans. I'm a vegan for the morality of not harming other sentient beings unnecessarily. All the other good stuff comes with it: smaller carbon footprint, better health, and no more foul odors in the kitchen or my trash can

[@Magdalena287]

I like how you said sentient beings, so animals in the womb can be killed then and its no issue?

[@AlbuquerqueBandit]

@@Magdalena287 I'm undecided on abortion personally, but I do have a vegan friend who is pro-life. It comes as a surprise to many, but vegans aren't all the same and we don't have a hive mind. How do you like that, honey?

[@janieswanson2549]

@@AlbuquerqueBandit "I'm a vegan for the morality of not harming other sentient beings unnecessarily." Pure hypocrisy. You literally use animal products intentionally and needlessly for entertainment every time you make a comment on youtube. KZbin is not necessary for life. You're just a liar and a hypocrite pretending to be vegan to virtue signal for attention.

[@makx6972]

@@janieswanson2549 I'm curious! How do you exactly use animal products when you comment on KZbin? Could you elaborate please?

[@janieswanson2549]

@@makx6972 "How do you exactly use animal products when you comment on KZbin?" Smart phones, computers, routers, and servers are made with and contain fat, gelatin, and bones.

[@Smolmei]

as an argentinian vegan, I don't agree at all with the chef; she romantiziced the whole process of killing a cow when it's actually horrible, I just hate it. I grew up eating asado and most of products you find in the supermarkets contains animal fat, ever cookies and bread. Culture should NOT dictate morality.

[@nishantdesai3705]

continuing the tradition?? In India we had tradition of "sati" where widows kill themselves by sitting on burning pyre of her husband when he gets cremated. Fortunately we didn't had people like her in powerful positions to argue that "it's a tradition we can't just stop it" Just because its a tradition does not mean you should continue it, especially when you learn how cruel and inhumane the tradition is

[@CastledarkDweller27]

When i heard the vegan rep's name is Gittermary i thought this oughta be a hoot. But she was quite fabulous at remembering all her facts and statistics and getting her message across well. The other lass, the restaurant owner, did well too but not nearly well enough to win. Especially considering she had the majority of the crowd on her side to begin with. But she was so damn honest with herself and so damn likeable. In fact they all were, even the audience was polite, well mannered & sane. (with the exception of the drongo who suggested we all eat insects instead of cows) Sheesh! If people dont wanna replace their steak with potatoes and chick peas, i seriously doubt theyll swap steak for cockies & tarantulas ffs.

[@PooPooBanana2]

lolollllll so trueeee

[@kennyfinger8306]

If a culture requires cruelty, then that aspect of the culture must change.

[@jamesbyrne3033]

Very true, well said.

[@Assassin99584]

Cruelty tho

[@fringestream990]

Okay, communist..,

[@janieswanson2549]

Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it?

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@janieswanson2549 So Janie, please tell us what you ate over the last week. 😊 How many animal products have you eaten? Refusing to answer makes you guilty of hypocrisy and means you lose ❌ and vegans win. 😊✅ All the trolls keep losing!

[@kirkclarke7396]

I thought this was supposed to be a debate

[@someguy2135]

I agree. Very one sided. The reason is that there is no good argument for exploiting animals.

[@tantanmustdie]

@@someguy2135 true actually

[@steverichards1556]

There's only one reason that i like activating my brain's pleasure at the cost of activating pain ones of others.

[@theresawestcott5758]

Why aren't more people talking about this vid???.

[@lucasmccabe4941]

Because neither of these people know enough to talk on their subject matter

[@falconscloud]

Because nobody cares what lying vegans have to say

[@GarudaLegends]

because it is a horrible format, and the vegan is spewing misinformation

[@user-wi4yn1fy2t]

In many regions of the world it was "tradition" and "culture" to keep slaves, deny women their basic human rights, rape and pillage etc. etc....Luckil times change and people expand their minds for the better. This chef's argument of needing to "communicate" the traditions and culture through her food with meat is just BS

[@HeroesofNovember]

In feminist utopia called Sweden, ra p es have gone up by 1500% because of the imm ig rants. Those who report the crimes are targeted by the liberals in power.

[@pretentiousmoi6953]

Sooo I guess you also think that slavery was morally justified as it was deeply rooted in tradition?

[@MovieBr0]

If there is an solid argument against Veganism, I haven't heard it, and I've heard a LOT people try, they are just excuses.

[@ElAteoMexicano]

There's nothing wrong with being vegan, but militant veganism is counterproductive to the stated cause of reducing animal suffering. You aren't go to convince the world to stop eating meat or using all animal products by shaming non-vegans. It was 2013 that the first lab-grown burger was sampled. Now UPSIDE Foods has a facility in California capable of producing 400,000 lbs of REAL BEEF every year without the need to slaughter a single cow. It's just one of hundreds of cultured meat startups worldwide. In my humble opinion, cultured meat, not chickpeas are the most viable solution for doing away with the cruel practices of factory farming.

[@janieswanson2549]

The best argument against veganism is that no one practices veganism. It's too hard, inconvenient, and currently just a trending fad.

[@MovieBr0]

@@ElAteoMexicano Ethically there is nothing wrong with lab grown meat, but doesn't it still cause the same health problems such as heart disease and cancer as meat does?

[@MovieBr0]

@@janieswanson2549 You must be trolling, that's the worst argument I've heard.

[@ElAteoMexicano]

@@MovieBr0 When you say eating meat, "causes health problems" like cancer and heart disease, you're making an overarching statement. Vegans can get cancer and heart disease. There is no one perfectly healthy vegetarian/ vegan/omnivorous diet. Someone eating nothing but potato chips all day may technically have a vegan diet, but it certainly isn't healthy. Someone eating lean meat, fish, etc with plenty of fiber in the form of nutritious vegetables, legums, etc would have a pretty healthy diet. Humans certainly evolved as ominvours and veganism is a novel and very recent adaptation, from an evolutionary perspective. And from what I understand with cultured meat, it's fairly customizable in terms of the types of meat and nutritional contents.

[@sumavishy08]

I like Host's humorous gestures.

[@marcolerena456]

I dno, personally I don't like a host inserting their opinions into a debate even if its with funny facial expressions.

[@ramoncintron214]

@@marcolerena456 I agree :D

[@dolphinOnKeys]

Gittemary had much stronger arguments. Well done!

[@mathewschreiber3049]

Had more bs propaganda

[@mrsparkkimjeon9985]

Well. Being vegan itself is a stronger argument.

[@mrsparkkimjeon9985]

@@mathewschreiber3049 what is bs

[@mathewschreiber3049]

@@mrsparkkimjeon9985 the fact that they have more "vegans" saying its better for the planet and animals; which is false. But that the survey at the end sways towards the "vegans" propagating vegan living is better

[@ARKSURVIVOR879]

@@mathewschreiber3049 how isn't it better?

[@fdsamatt5763]

The vegan lady was FANTASTIC! Loved the part about 'plants feeling pain'. Meat-eater lady continually spoke about tradition and culture continuously. There are PLENTY of things that were cultural and traditional but that doesn't justify it. Well done to the both of them.

[@janieswanson2549]

How do you justify using animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it?

[@fdsamatt5763]

@@janieswanson2549 Excuse me? What are you talking about?

[@janieswanson2549]

@@fdsamatt5763 It's a question. You needlessly use animal products for entertainment and I am simply asking how you justify it. Did I use too many big words?

[@fdsamatt5763]

@@janieswanson2549 No, I'm trying to understand what you're referring to. Which 'animal products' am I using for entertainment?

[@janieswanson2549]

@@fdsamatt5763 The animal products in the electronics you used to comment.

[@swedishvegan7866]

It's interesting that the vegan's reasons are purely unselfish while the meat-eater's reasons are purely selfish. I feel thousands times more empathy with the animal forced to give their ENTIRE LIFE for a certain food, than someone crying over not being able to "communicate" in the same way if they don't use animal flesh as a medium.

[@janieswanson2549]

Everyone uses animal products needlessly. Maybe the people claiming to be against it should practice what they preach before worrying about their betters who do practice what they preach.

[@swedishvegan7866]

@@janieswanson2549 do you mean people who claim to be against animal cruelty but consume animal products?

[@janieswanson2549]

@@swedishvegan7866 Yep. Like yourself.

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@swedishvegan7866 This particular anti-vegan troll won't even admit to eating animal products which directly funds the suffering of billions of innocent animals. Go ahead...ask her. She'll never answer because she's as disingenuous as they come. ✌🏻

[@stopabusinganimals5259]

@@janieswanson2549 Nobody agrees with you.

[@skaterdude14b]

this format is awesome. casual, close, rapid.. like an actual bar argument. excellent moderator

[@FastdounutTV]

If you feel like the devil, why do you continue to do the same act?

[@steverichards1556]

👍

[@isaacthompson1678]

Cause I'm the devil

[@michaelaltawil]

Dude really said plants feel too, omg

[@saintimran]

it is bro, plants do have feelings goddamn it

[@Corvid_Moon]

@@saintimran Which would mean people should go vegan, because it requires vastly less plant "suffering" than a diet that includes both plants _&_ animals (whom require vastly more plants than people do)

[@VeganSanatani]

@@saintimran the mango tree in our house was super depressed, our neighbours mango tree cheated on him...he had so much hurt feelings.

[@VerdantJedi]

@@saintimran Wow. Did you know you have 0 iq?

[@steverichards1556]

Tradition and culture is what delays meaningfull creations.

[@TheBroLuke]

Another great quote! Man this comment section is 🔥

[@GarethRiffStevens]

I feel sorry for this meat eater restauranteur.. she had no leg to stand on from the start. Go Vegan! I'd love to know why the votes was still 50/50 at the end, the meat eater practically agreed and admitted she eat a beyond burger and couldn't tell the difference.

[@nigelnuttingson8860]

Are you dumb ?

[@user-tm2qp3uj5q]

More land is used to feed farmed animals.

[@SparklinYoga]

If it was for tradition and culture I would not be able to vote as woman

[@OnePieceFan2100]

Yeah and maybe we would still sacrifice our firstborn to some gods in hope of some rain.

[@janieswanson2549]

As a Republican I would like to say you're welcome.

[@amandah5478]

@@janieswanson2549 Hi troll

[@janieswanson2549]

@@amandah5478 Name calling because you can't refute me? Very typical for you.

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@janieswanson2549 So Janie, please tell us what you ate over the last week. 😊 How many animal products have you eaten? Refusing to answer makes you guilty of hypocrisy and means you lose ❌ and vegans win. 😊✅

[@timothyliu5898]

Next debating topic: plant loving environmentalist vs vegan.

[@KINGANIMEREVIEW]

Can plants feel pain??

[@felixanto2972]

@@KINGANIMEREVIEW if we give pain killer to animal they also can't feel pain so can we kill them on that way? And the plants give us a life (oxygen) am a plant lover so pls it's hurt us so pls don't eat plant or tree basa food and things like furniture...lol just joke I can't decide wat u eat .. and u can't other....so don't implement ur ideology is right...may be future plant lovers protest again vegan....

[@samyekjain8215]

@KING ANIME REVIEW Its scientifically proven that plants cant feel pain. Its cos they dont have any sort of nervous systems or brains to feel or experience pain and suffering.

[@samyekjain8215]

@Felix anto Actually u need more 10-16x more plants to sustain a meat eating lifestyle bcos the plants which ppl eat need a lot of plants. Thus, if u r a plant lover, then the way to consume the least plants is Vegan.

[@libertadvalerio870]

A point for the Vegans 💚 The culinary lady acts like there will never be new mock meat inventions. People are incredibly creative and imaginative. We will inventing new and better mock meats that can surpass animal flesh. If the majority of people went Vegan companies would start investing in creating new products. We don’t need to loose our culture or tradition, we need to rediscover it and make it better with Vegan foods. Our future can be bright, we just gotta get out of our own way. I believe we can have a sustainable, humane world filled with delicious Vegan food 💚

[@janieswanson2549]

None of them are vegan. No need to lie.

[@ElAteoMexicano]

I'm not sure a plant-based steak will be passable as the real-deal anytime soon, but cultured meat has already gotten there. It's not technically vegan, but no animals are harmed in its production. A tiny, pin prick of a biopsy can produce hundreds of thousands of tons of REAL MEAT.

[@madnezz1961]

and great culinary artists love the challenge of making a plant based meal. I know I was a chef, now 100% plant based vegan and I love to cook

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

So proud to be vegan ❤️

[@bc.oO0Oo.]

The future is Vegan

[@juliewake4585]

I hope so.

[@TheBroLuke]

I know so. It must.

[@goozfrabah579]

You wish

[@techieadam5031]

We have built the world by acting first and justifying later. Moving forward we will all need to learn forethought. We will all need to learn not to make presuppositions about new ideas, such as plant-based diets can't taste good. We will all need to learn to put our health, others health, the worlds health, before our own convinience. Our convinience is adaptable, as long as we don't make presuppositions about other options. We will need to learn that change and adaption is a good thing, and that culture is not set in stone, but grows into something greater. Great culture will adapt, innovate, and thrive alongside the world.

[@sup389]

Random thing but I love how the vegan girl says agriculture.

[@TheBroLuke]

Orgricoultchure 💚

[@thakur1992]

Where is this place?

[@reemalxo]

I am thinking about becoming vegan. Can someone please send me journal articles regarding environmental and health benefits?

[@kittenswarm]

Vegan here. Yeah screw people that raise farm animals, screw culture, and screw meateaters! All the farm animals should be let free to do as they please, they aren't reliant on people anymore! And culture? What even is that? Just sounds like un-needed cruelty to me! And people who eat meat!? They should be shamed and be told that not being a vegan is horrible every single time they even THINK about it! Im so glad this argument was thoroughly discussed and that it was totally not staged at all what-so-ever. Also, im vegan.😇😏👿

[@janieswanson2549]

Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while claiming to be vegan?

[@tuscanysun8669]

@@janieswanson2549 troll

[@janieswanson2549]

@@tuscanysun8669 Name calling is your best argument? Thanks for the win. I accept your concession.

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@janieswanson2549 So Janie, please tell us what you ate over the last week. 😊 How many animal products have you eaten? Refusing to answer makes you guilty of hypocrisy and means you lose ❌ and vegans win. 😊✅ Another L for you. ☺️

[@janieswanson2549]

@@NoInjusticeLastsForever You said you were done replying to me. Guess you can't tell the truth eh? It's up to you to prove I eat animal products since you made the original accusation. The burden of proof is on you. Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it? I know you won't answer this question honestly. You will instead ignore the question, lie, go into denial, evade, ignore, and/or justify it. Thanks for another automatic win. I accept your concession.

[@deadboysbeats428]

yo gittemary i love your answers and ethics keep spreading the facts

[@sierramikain6671]

Facts? She *lied* about methane causing more damage to the environment that C02. She *lied* about animal agriculture causing more pollution than transportation. She *lied* about the animal agriculture spending "billions and billions and billions of dollars" to "not tell the facts" to the public. *What facts?*

[@Random_JapGuy]

She's not debating She's spreading b*llsh*t

[@deadboysbeats428]

@@Random_JapGuy Iknow bro I said the wrong chick 😂

[@nvc.]

@@sierramikain6671 What she said is all true. Animal agriculture is destroying the world. And the billions that the animal agriculture spend to hide from you is in advertising. They will allways show you green pastures and happy cows and lovely pigs having fun but, they dont show you how cruel and horrible it acctually is. They dont show you what happens in reality, animals shacking in fear, pigs screeming for their lives on gas chambers, cows filled with infeccions on the tits because of the extractors that are super painfull for them, or male chicks getin masserated alive because they dont produce eggs, or cows in agony dying drowned in their blood after the bullet not being tottaly effected and they wake up with the knife in the throat... vegans dont need to lie, unfortunately its all true.. religion, culture, taste etc can not be justifications for what we do to these scentient inocent creatures that make us no harm, so we have no right to do this to them..

[@sierramikain6671]

@@nvc. _What she said is all true. Animal agriculture is destroying the world._ I'm not questioning the fact that animal agriculture is causing harm to the environment. I'm saying that she *lied* when she said that it caused *more pollution than all of transportation methods.* So no, what she is saying is _not_ all true. _And the billions that the animal agriculture spend to hide from you is in advertising. They will allways show you green pastures and happy cows and lovely pigs having fun but, they dont show you how cruel and horrible it acctually is._ Well _obviously_ the meat industry doesn't want to show you images of animals getting their throats slit or being butchered. Who wants to see that? Of _course_ they are going to focus on the pleasant aspects, but how is this any different from what _other_ industries do? For decades the cosmetic industry used to put chemicals into the eyes of animals to see how they would react. Did they show that stuff in their t.v. ads? Of course not! They showed you how good you'd look with their make-up on, or how good you'd smell with their fragrance on. Fast food companies have contributed to obesity for decades. Do they show ads with people who have diabetes or heart disease? No, they show you a delicious hamburger or fried chicken and people enjoying them. How many people die in car accidents every *day?* Do car companies show you mangled cars and human bodies ripped apart in a bloody mess? Not that I can remember. How many people are alcoholics or get drunk and beat up their spouses or get into bar fights. Do alcohol companies show that? No, they just show you fun parties with lots of friends enjoying vodka or rum or whatever. My point is that this is how advertising _works!_ *No industry* is going to show you the negative side, because that just isn't a smart business stragegy. _religion, culture, taste etc can not be justifications for what we do to these scentient inocent creatures that make us no harm..._ Do rabbits harm wolves? Do zebras harm crocodiles? In nature, animals have killed an eaten other animals since the beginning of time. That _requires_ no justification. It's just how life works. Humans are animals. We have been part of that natural process since the beginning of time. Why should the human race suddenly need to justify themselves for doing something we have been doing since we first existed as a species? _...so we have no right to do this to them.._ ~90% of the world's population eats meat, so your _opinion_ is not shared by the majority of the planet.

[@christiaandemarezoyens4720]

Whenever there is a fair and open debate, vegans always win. You can’t beat the combination of logic and ethics.

[@ryannorris1]

I have so many thoughts on this. But one major thought: typically when people want to justify their habits and they are faced with someone on the other side of that spectrum, it's very easy and convenient to label the other person as "radical". Calling a vegan "radical", just makes it easier to reflect back on you that your diet and and conditioning is justified. I've been called a radical vegan just for saying I'm vegan. It probably made it easier for that mouth breather to justify his eating habits.

[@MilesRoseProductions]

I'm not even vegan, but the vegan girl whooped ass in this debate

[@Gittemary]

thank you 😎😎

[@janieswanson2549]

She lost before she ever began. She uses animal products. She is just a hypocrite who derives more worth from the claim of being vegan than the actual practice.

[@tuscanysun8669]

Question: then why aren't you vegan?

[@janieswanson2549]

@@tuscanysun8669 Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it? I know you won't answer honestly. Instead you will evade, name call, ignore the question, or justify not practicing what you preach.

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@janieswanson2549 We're vegan. Gonna cry?

[@navidkh1883]

Have been vegan for about two years and feel healthier than ever

[@janieswanson2549]

You proved you're not vegan by making a comment claiming to be vegan.

[@natalies0531]

@@janieswanson2549 bye that is not how that work lmfaoo

[@janieswanson2549]

@@natalies0531 A vegan is a person who does not eat or use animal products. @navid used animal products to make a comment. That's exactly how it works. Thanks for proving you can't refute me.

[@natalies0531]

@@janieswanson2549 okay first of all I'm pretty sure everyone knows what vegan is. So tell me does nothing when I am becoming one. Second of all simply telling someone they arent something just bc they mentioned it publically doesn't mean they arent that thing lol. So no, commenting that you're something doesn't mean that they arent that thing. Thats not how that works and you can think that but its not lmao. and I just refuted you😘

[@janieswanson2549]

@@natalies0531 Animal products are used to produce smart phones, computers, and servers. Using those things proves you're not vegan. Thanks for proving you can't refute me again.

[@madelynbryan5712]

Gittemary has a youtube channel! Maybe link her channel (and Wossala’s if she has one too) in the description :)

[@CursiveDragon]

Is it me or does it seem the guy in the middle didn't really care for when the two ladies were agreeing with each other? It may have very well been a time managment thing.

[@jannix7262]

Not killing animals is radical okay

[@janieswanson2549]

Name just one person who lives in modern times who doesn't take part in using animal products.

[@jannix7262]

​@@janieswanson2549 vegans

[@janieswanson2549]

@@jannix7262 No need to make things up. Just being here using electronics proves that isn't true.

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@janieswanson2549 So Janie, please tell us what you ate over the last week. 😊 How many animal products have you eaten? Refusing to answer makes you guilty of hypocrisy and means you lose ❌ and vegans win. 😊✅ You just keep losing don't you?

[@janieswanson2549]

@@NoInjusticeLastsForever You said you were done replying to me. Guess you can't tell the truth eh? It's up to you to prove I eat animal products since you made the original accusation. The burden of proof is on you. Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it? I know you won't answer this question honestly. You will instead ignore the question, lie, go into denial, evade, ignore, and/or justify it. Thanks for another automatic win. I accept your concession.

[@cloro1238]

Vegan argument wins every time

[@HeroesofNovember]

They dont chose those for debates who would absolutely destroy all vegans arguments (like Paul Saladino) Vegans kill many times more animals than those who eat grassfed beef. Veganism is also very damaging to the soil, bad for the bees and plant foods lack many important nutrients or are in poorly bioavailable form or in too small amounts.

[@cloro1238]

@@HeroesofNovember none of what you stated is true 😂

[@mansg3084]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXiqXnRuZbmfa8k To enlighten you...

[@cloro1238]

@@mansg3084 you haven’t enlightened anything. Eating animals is wrong. Simples.

[@mansg3084]

@@cloro1238 So rodents dont die when youre eating?? Pesticides and Insecticides... "cides" Those in the australian farms are struggling with a rodent plaque.. Theyre killin so that we may eat... Vegans and Omnivores... The best way to save the planet and other animals is to eat nothing... Humans are selfish... Vegan or not... Simples

[@joeblow597]

Regarding Bulls, the reason there are few bull is that most bull calves are culled when born, as dairy farmers only want cows that produce milk. So if this wasn't done as in humans there will be roughly a 50 / 50 mix of cows and calves. And as to less being bred, does this mean they will become extinct eventually, it would take a long time though with nearly 30 million cattle in Australia at present?

[@Veganbhavna]

Humanity and compassion is much greater than any religion. We have plenty of option in a plant based food and we won't die if we don't eat meat unlike obligate carnivores

[@juantrujillo6280]

Every argument against veganism is just an excuse

[@henrywalton5967]

Good knowledge but way too much on environment and health, animal rights should always come first.

[@sierramikain6671]

What animal rights? And her information on the environment is flat out wrong (see my comment above if you're interested).

[@henrywalton5967]

@@sierramikain6671 I know it's sad she hardly talked about the most important thing :(

[@sierramikain6671]

@@henrywalton5967 I _think_ you missed my point. When I said "what animal rights" I meant "what rights" as in to say animals _don't have_ rights.

[@siddhanthravichandran3245]

Meat eaters don't care about the lives of the animals they consume.....so the best way to argue is to find common ground "the lives of human beings " She did a great job IMO, most of these arguments just focus on the ethical issue and that's why meat eaters don't take this seriously... They think this doesn't affect them at all... And u start by disproving that first.

[@henrywalton5967]

@@siddhanthravichandran3245 it's not true, most people care a lot they are just completely disconnected from slaughterhouses.

[@klavierfurdummies4415]

Thank you for the insightful discussion. However, I would like to ask the following three interrelated questions: 1) Couldn't it be argued that for a cow, life under very good conditions with a quick and non-painful death after a few years is better than no life at all? 2) Thus, if a cow had a choice between living for a few years under good conditions and no life at all, would she not choose the former? 3) Furthermore, couldn't it be argued that people's need for meat has good consequences in that it allows, at best, many animal lives for a few years in good conditions, while a vegan diet does not support these forms of life at all? What is your opinion on these three points?

[@carlies7660]

Hi Klavier, for me the main issue with your questions is that in reality, the vast majority of food animals don't get the chance to live for "a few years" most cows killed for meat are killed between 15-20 months, and so don't even get to reach 2 years. Dairy cows can be kept alive for up to 4 years, but they live a miserable life, being constantly forced to become pregnant, and then having their babies taken away from them often on the first day of their life. These babies, if they are male, are almost immediately slaughtered as they are of no use to the dairy industry as they will not provide milk. That's a rubbish life. And it's horrendously sad considering that is a cow were allowed to just live, without a slaughter date hanging over their head, their natural lifespan would be up to 20 years. Most other food animals also only live to be between a day and a few months old, so they're still babies really when they are killed. Also a large majority of food animals do not get to live in "good conditions", even for the free range animals, what we may imagine free range to be, is often far from the truth. The promise of happy animals is mostly an illusion to keep the consumer happy. For example, with chickens, for their products to have the free range label, the animal has to have access to an outside area for at least part of the day. That's it. There are no fixed rules as to what this time period should be, or how easy it should be for the chickens to get that access. And so there are often thousands of chickens all crammed together with one tiny door to the outside, that most of them cannot access. But it's still technically free range. Sorry if I'm rambling, this is clearly a very complicated issue, I could talk about it for days. What do you think of this?

[@klavierfurdummies4415]

@@carlies7660 Thank you very much for your kind and detailled answer. Well, I agree, my question is far from reality since there are hardly any good circumstances in animal farming. So, I really get your point. Still I am kind of interested in those rather theoretical question, because, in fact, I am not sure how to answer them for myself: Would I rather live under really bad circumstances or would I prefer not to live at all then? I am not sure how to answer it.

[@GarlandFarms]

@@carlies7660 How do you rationalize the myriad of ways that animals are slaughtered as a result of the gargantuan and ongoing lethal crop protection measures required to produce the vegan menu?

[@OnePieceFan2100]

@@GarlandFarms The animals need more crops, way more crops it's an 8:1 ratio. We want to reduce suffering as much as possible, perfect is sadly not possible. But 1 thing not being perfect doesn't make it right to not care about it at all. I have to eat food to survive that is not a choice but I can choose how much damage I cause.

[@OnePieceFan2100]

To Nr.1, the main question is always, do you have a choice to not kill that cow, if so why would you? Also don't forget in order for this cow to live peaceful, there could never be a large amount of them. Otherwise you have to manually fed them, which means you have to destroy the habitat of other animals for her food. Sure a cruel free life is better than one filled with torture, but why end a happy life without a need? I am sure no judge would tell me it is okay if I only kill happy people. Nr.2 I don't know what the cow would choose, is she aware all the time that she only lives to die for someone elses tastebuds? Nr.3 No, it can't. While the factory cow and pig as we know it might not exist in a world of vegan Humans, we where the ones that created these animals. They are not natural and for them to exist other animals have to die. At the moment 100 species die out every day, why are the few cow and pig species more important? Animals go extinct every day which is natural, just the rate at which it happens is not natural, animals adapt or die out. Lastly the whole construct is very fictional and unrealistic because as long as there is profit to be made the animal wellbeing is secondary. Moreover the amount of meat consumed cannot be produced in a sustainable way, nor in a humane way. And lastly as I said at the start, when you have the choice to not kill, why would you?

[@frankmedrisch7451]

I am from Argentina. First, there is no such thing as a “Pampero”. Second, the country is full of slaughterhouses. This woman has no idea what she is talking about.

[@nastreagoob2792]

It's 2022! Stop breading animals forced to existence! 💯🌍🚫💔🐾 💯 🌍 🌱🐾 💯 Vegan

[@JuragoAgata]

Great debate! Go vegans! There is NO nice way to kill ✌️

[@janieswanson2549]

And yet here you are using animal products needlessly for entertainment from the same animal normal people eat.

[@amandah5478]

@@janieswanson2549 and yet here you are.

[@janieswanson2549]

@@amandah5478 I never claimed to be vegan either. Just pointing out hypocrisy. Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment? I know you won't answer that simple fact based question. You won't even try.

[@JuragoAgata]

@@janieswanson2549 what animal products? I don't understand what you mean... I sense some trolling ;-) Also, "normal" people eat meat 😂???

[@janieswanson2549]

@@JuragoAgata Fat, gelatin, and bones removed from livestock. I guess you're sensing your own trolling since you evaded the simple question.

[@Luisear00]

who is this gal Wossala... she is all over the place... she wasnt ready or prepared for a debate like this

[@jamesbyrne3033]

Has anyone noticed that despite the fact that there are literally billions of non-vegans in the world, it's always the same 4 or 5 people you see arguing with vegans in the comments again and again? My guess is that most meat eaters are smart enough to know that they can't avoid acknowledging that it's wrong to violently exploit the bodies of other sentient creatures for pleasure, without sounding evil or stupid.

[@janieswanson2549]

No one is arguing with vegans in the comments. No one here arguing is vegan because they are using animal products needlessly. Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be vegan?

[@Prithvikalra660]

@@janieswanson2549 I am pretty sure whoever uses phones don't just use it for yt or entertainment. It's very different from eating a burger merely for 15 mins of taste and using a phone for calls, important meetings and work. Sure that entertainment does come besides it, but when you have a phone it won't make a difference if you use it for entertainment also.

[@janieswanson2549]

@@Prithvikalra660 Electronics are made with animal products. Thanks for proving your hypocrisy.

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@janieswanson2549 So Janie, please tell us what you ate over the last week. 😊 How many animal products have you eaten? Refusing to answer makes you guilty of hypocrisy and means you lose ❌ and vegans win. 😊✅

[@janieswanson2549]

@@NoInjusticeLastsForever You said you were done replying to me. Guess you can't tell the truth eh? It's up to you to prove I eat animal products since you made the original accusation. The burden of proof is on you. Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it? I know you won't answer this question honestly. You will instead ignore the question, lie, go into denial, evade, ignore, and/or justify it. Thanks for another automatic win. I accept your concession.

[@rosieleat6868]

Go vegan girl, you did us proud!

[@Stockman516]

If you know that you can be killed just for being a woman, by all that you mean, argue against her.

[@VeganV5912]

@@Stockman516 .. Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot, were Killing innocent souls. Bludgeoned to death... 👈 Hint hint 🤥🦠🍖🔴.... 🙄. Over a frigging 5 minute burger et cetera !!! CuIt🔴foIIowing !!!!! What a world we live in !!!!! Sick !!!! 🖕🔴

[@Stockman516]

@@VeganV5912 I think you might have missed what I was saying.

[@VeganV5912]

@@Stockman516 .. You hurt animaIs for your seIfish🔴greeed ??? 5 minute burger etc !!! CuIt🔴foIIowing !!!!!. We are vegan ?? Yes or no question 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@VeganV5912]

@@Stockman516 .. 🐮🔪⛓😭/😵🔴🦠🍖🐔. Hypoooocrite 🤥. Big Time !!!! Over a frigging 5 minute hamburger et cetera !!!!!! CuIt🔴foIIowing !!!!! You can have vegan burgers and vegan chicken and vegan pizza and vegan curry and vegan tacos and vegan burritos..... without murder !!! Simple !!! ✅🤷🏼‍♂️. Vegan burgers blindfold test, Number 1 ever, delicious !!!!

[@kadeem070]

I hate that you can’t find any meat eaters with educated debates..this was a waste of 20 minutes on her part. The vegan debater was very well educated on the topic and gave great and accurate information

[@HearturMind]

Yes, the vegan is an activist she is trained to do this and does it all the time. The good natured restauranteur just said sure, yeah I will do it. And she handled herself just fine, was genuine and thought for herself. She was not rambling off the echo chamber like the other one.

[@HeroesofNovember]

They dont get those on the debate who would absolutely destroy the vegans (like Saladino)

[@neveenbajwa7080]

That’s because there are no solid arguments against veganism

[@earthpart3]

@@HeroesofNovember you keep praising this guy, no one ever heard of him.

[@parameshnat]

@@HeroesofNovember who exactly are the heroes of November 1923? I looked up the date and am moderately concerned this a dog whistle...

[@DubcareTV]

The meat lady said "our ancestors were carnivores." Then she said she feels like the devil and talks about "knowing the farmer"??? As if anyone gets all their meats from a local farmer. Not happening or possible for most people worldwide. No, your ancestors were not carnivorous animals. Next.

[@Kanzu999]

4:23 I can't believe she made this claim, and I hope the vegan girl can respond to it, because it's just ridiculously wrong and goes the other way around. I want to know how it's possible for people to believe that this is true.

[@demisabracadabr3847]

my favorite argument: tarantulas are tasty

[@isabellakontrick3278]

Girl 😂🕷

[@virginiakharel7844]

Meat eater speaker had no leg to stand on, really didnt make any valid points. Sad she thinks its a privillage to kill a chicken herself

[@GarlandFarms]

What is a crop protection permit?

[@janieswanson2549]

How does she think it's a privillage? That isn't even a word.

[@amandah5478]

@@janieswanson2549 Desperation tactics again

[@janieswanson2549]

@@amandah5478 Can't refute me?

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@amandah5478 Ruined the troll

[@gaborszadai1992]

Carnistic "argument": "But gastronomy and culture, tho"... 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@dgollas]

I like it when they called out how show-offish the chef was.

[@thehauntedstream7206]

Slavery was part of almost if not every culture

[@mattsapero1896]

Oh, “kind” killing. 🤦🏻

[@techieadam5031]

Today someone suggested to me that we should deal with the risk of a swollen lithium ion battery by stabbing it with a fork. That comment about the grass is still the dumbest thing I've heard today.

[@jonatan01i]

"Nononononono! Keep disagreeing!" 5:27

[@Innocence44]

the culture has conditioned me to eat flesh and two types of secretions. so lets meet in the middle...no.

[@someguy2135]

In the past, culture conditioned the attitude that slavery was justified. Progress requires change.

[@robdee9341]

NO

[@earthpart3]

the culture is barbaric and idiotic

[@samayasarjain4559]

I'm a *Vegan-Vegetarian !!*

[@henrywalton5967]

🤔

[@iceice3565]

Right

[@maciejkoterba3519]

I’m not a predator. Animals have rights to live we have no rights to kill them Just for culinary pleasure. Totally unsustainable and ethically unacceptable. We really have to be more empathetic.

[@cloverfamily9422]

Plants also have rights to live 😁🪴🌾🌱🌿

[@maciejkoterba3519]

Killing can never be done in a nice way. Please don’t promote lies just to sustain your business. Money imperative concerning inflicting suffering and eventually killing innocent beings is insane.

[@pranavgainz4180]

All I heard for the meat eater is “ grrrrrr grrrr, I’m a cargrrrrnivor” 😂

[@jannix7262]

The radical meat eater got destroyed

[@janieswanson2549]

There wasn't any radical meat eaters in the video. Just a normal omnivore and a omnivore in denial that pretends to be vegan.

[@jannix7262]

@@janieswanson2549 what is normal omnivore? eating dogs, cats and horses?

[@janieswanson2549]

@@jannix7262 Normal people who eat plants and animals. Cows, pigs, fish, and birds. Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it?

[@jannix7262]

@@janieswanson2549 but why do these normal people not eat dogs and cats? what is the difference. pigs are as intelligent as 3 to 4 year old humans. whats your point? just because there is some suffering does not justify so much more suffering. yes in the displays sometimes is cholesteral but buying a device with a monitor every 3 years causes so little suffering compared to eating them and their products. a computer for work ist not needless. but eating animals is. If I would only have animals available I would eat them but only if it's a necessity

[@janieswanson2549]

@@jannix7262 Dogs and cats aren't efficient meat and animal product producers. Simple logic. Thanks for admitting to using animal products needlessly for entertainment. I accept your concession.

[@natelay7244]

The vegan had the facts, and the coherence to express them. The restauranteur kept falling back on her "feelings" and her often incorrect estimations of the effects of animal agriculture. From an intellectual perspective, the vegan won this hands down

[@TheBroLuke]

Don't forget she started off her debate with flat out lies.

[@mehakbharti6210]

the meat eater was just ignorant and had a closed mind. But I like how everyone was calm and friendly.

[@tillyash7603]

Very well done to the Lovely vegan girl

[@camperosveganos98]

Culture and tradition: For centuries the white man treated the black man worse than he would treat an animal and enslaved him generation after generation. That was a tradition and it was abolished in most of the world. In Spain bullfights or in China in the Yulin festival with its slaughter of dogs, or in Faroe Island with the slaughter of dolphins ( even babies) are “cultural” events and yet they are activities that have their days numbered due to global pressure to end them. Culture and tradition are nothing more than repeating what you were taught or shown since you were a child according to the geographical place where you were born. Culture and tradition have absolutely nothing to do with morality, compassion or ethics, matters that differentiate us from the rest of the living beings and make us human. Lastly, I have been in Argentina pampa and what the gauchos does to a calf or a goat isn’t not humanly or nice. Is not a confortable show to watch when they start to cut an animal nape with an axe like cutting a tree. Go vegan , for the planet, for your health, for the animals, for good karma.

[@Bianca-pw5cn]

There’s nothing radical about refusing to partake in unnecessary and systematic violence towards innocent beings for taste pleasure. Nothing. Human supremacy is radical.

[@janieswanson2549]

Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it?

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@janieswanson2549 So Janie, please tell us what you ate over the last week. 😊 How many animal products have you eaten? Refusing to answer makes you guilty of hypocrisy and means you lose ❌ and vegans win. 😊✅ 😃😃😃😃

[@janieswanson2549]

@@NoInjusticeLastsForever You said you were done replying to me. Guess you can't tell the truth eh? It's up to you to prove I eat animal products since you made the original accusation. The burden of proof is on you. Why do you use animal products needlessly for entertainment while pretending to be against it? I know you won't answer this question honestly. You will instead ignore the question, lie, go into denial, evade, ignore, and/or justify it. Thanks for another automatic win. I accept your concession.

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

@@janieswanson2549 I accept your concession. Thanks. ☺️

[@shin-ishikiri-no]

Meat addicts will use any justification to keep their bad habits. lol

[@goozfrabah579]

l justify it by saying I can't eat vegetables I will get sick and die