Video games will NEVER be free of the gender war if stuff like this keeps happening!

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Here's my unsolicited opinions on that old Robert Pattison and Zoe Kravitz interview where they were talking about Final Fantasy VII. It was an absolute mess so let's break down what happened.
I'm playing through Palworld on my second channel if you are interested, feel free to check it out. • Everything goes horrib...
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[@DangericeDreams]

The main problem with this conversation is entirely the strength behind the beliefs and biases of those involved. Zoe Kravitz is likely someone who has experienced years of confirmation bias towards the negatives of video games, and she wasn’t open to changing her opinion so easily. And Edward Cullen was fanboying so hard that he couldn’t manage to talk about the game outside of the context of *“man, those characters were so hot!”*

[@cardescomedioses3674]

Yeah, a big flaw about talking of jrpgs stories is that we kinda don't want to spoil it, or we are so used to everyone knowing the context that we forget how to actually descrive it propperly

[@gustyko8668]

​@@cardescomedioses3674 I believe that applies to almost any kind of storytelling.

[@fujiwaraofmokou]

The issue with people "seeing video games as more of mindless entertainment rather than a hobby" is that this is exactly what the video game industry thinks they are too lmao.

[@supremeleaderfrancisco9062]

depends on the studio

[@fujiwaraofmokou]

@@supremeleaderfrancisco9062 fair enough - I’d be hard pressed to say Square Enix thinks games are anything less than art.

[@TasMan14PL]

not to mention that games can be unique in their interactive storytelling, but instead more and more are chasing that "cinematic" quality and become "movie games" where cutscenes longevity exceeds gampleay, which by itself is brainded and feels like a chore to get more cutscenes.

[@fujiwaraofmokou]

​@@TasMan14PL Yeah it's kinda goofy how so many games are trying to become NieR Automata but instead become Life Is Strange. I think the main issue with cutscenes dragging on so long is that many of the games have these cutscenes about things that aren't interesting in the first place lmao. Games like Chrono Trigger can get away with having extended & drawn-out cutscenes because the story is engaging and it makes you want to follow along in the first place.

[@KingEgyptian]

It's literally 2 dude having fun talking about their fictional crushes when they were younger. It's no different when girls discuss Edward vs Jacob. As for Robert's explanation, Zoe didn't care, so it would have made no difference.

[@thetruesora]

he was probably trying to find an easy way to better get her to have some kind of context for what they're talking about. summing up by saying the archetype that they each fit to, or at least would appear to going by the look of them and what people would first think from seeing them

[@redherringoffshoot2341]

that's what I got from the video, but given that most people online are terminally/chronically online, ofc they'd blow it out of proportion

[@maleprincess5559]

the two guys say they cried about a video game and she gets surprised about that, but video games have stories like movies and books do, they aren't just mindless grinding.

[@Escanor4473]

Honestly this. I hate when people think video games are for mindless teenagers who just shoot each other all day. I can't stand games like that because it's basically like playing a sport. I'd rather go outside than have to waste my time in a dick measuring contest on who has the fastest reaction time. Games that have emotional stories are so underrated by normies its sad.

[@redherringoffshoot2341]

@@Escanor4473play indie games

[@cultreader9751]

@Escanor4473 im not a normie, but I generally don't care about the story in a game.

[@stevensteviepryde5888]

I hate when people treat entertainment like it exists solely to keep kids discracted or something like those lines because I've seen that mindset a lot and it makes me mad like without the stories I grew up with I wouldn't have had the inspirations I'd get. Transformers the movie 1986 will always be in my heart for that exact reason

[@EquesTron]

I think the interviewer being fairly combative was the most unnecessary part of that conversation. Robert reverting to being a teenage boy talking about the characters and laughing about it had its charms, but that also meant he was explaining his reasoning poorly, and that Zoe was having none of it. Like you said, no one really added anything to the conversation. I've only seen a small snippet of the clip, so it was nice to see the video in wider context.

[@marmelodicraconteur]

Robert probably wasnt prepared to have to defend his emotional connection to final fantasy 7 in this promotional interview for The Batman. It sucks that as a gamer you seemingly have to have a memorized essay ready to recite at a moments notice to justify why you like something that was genuinely meaningful to you and many others like you or for fear of accidentally not saying exactly the right thing in the right way succinctly and therefore being judged as exemplifying the worst stereotypes culture can attribute to you. It's exhausting and isolating.

[@tiamatengur5502]

I feel this in my soul. I also can't articulate well.

[@Alesiopdv]

was thinking the same thing, dude seems like he´s trying to explain but is having a hard time and is getting pretty awkard in the interview so is not like he´s slut shaming them or whatever, reminding other interviews he´s kinda like this all the time not everybody is super eloquent I guess

[@jendoe9436]

Agreed. Everyone has different interests and their reasoning for liking something. Sometimes those reasons are less “I connected with this deep philosophy question and the underlying layers of the human spirit” and more like “I like how this character looked and the ability to do X skill.” That’s it and there’s nothing wrong with that. Fandoms are made up of a variety of people who enjoy the media for different reasons. With that comes the acceptance that people may not appear to be as invested as you, but nonetheless are just as passionate about the media. And yeah, Patterson does strike me as a sort of awkward turtle in this interview. He probably hadn’t expected to talk about video games in this particular interview and just went off what he remembered. I’m the same way when talking about my favorite media to others, and probably come across as a crazy person when trying to explain some of my more fantastical interests.

[@redherringoffshoot2341]

tbqh depends on who you hang around, but you should also broaden your horizons beyond video games instead of being one of those terminally/chronically online types who make it their whole personality

[@cts1234567]

Honestly while it gets tiring hearing this old debate, the fact remains it's going to die soon, if only because the generation without games is also dying out. It's important to remember from history that "BOOKS", the thing that allowed for us to progress so much, was seen as wasteful and that it would dumb down the world and that smart people should just remember everything. That was ancient Greece and I believe that time has proven that books have made the world better.

[@pheenixgryphon7857]

Surprised the videogame dumb argument still even happens considering how big gaming has become. So yeah I agree with ya there. KZbin also plays a huge part in letting people experience videogames which is great for newcomers and gamers alike.

[@Sivick314]

look, as an autistic person i have learned that you just don't share things you are passionate about with normies. they're not going to get it, and mostly don't care. all you are going to do is annoy them. he didn't need to be so combative about it though.

[@AL-ws5yi]

I haven’t heard about this. The whole interview is uncomfortable to watch. You can see that neither side wants to understand each other. I don’t play video games (because I suck at them) but I enjoy watching my hubby and kids play them. I only play Pokémon games.

[@2010justj]

Honestly, this interview is what you get when you have a person who is aware of games on a surface level, explaining them to someone who has no interest in games at all.

[@joecrazy9896]

I think Robert hasn't played FF7 in a very long time, and can't really remember the nuances of the characters. At least, that's what I think is the reason why he's giving a very surface level description of Aerith and Tifa. Don't really know, but that is how I'm reading his very wonky explanation.

[@terracannon876]

That may be true, but I think that's also how most people consume media. Almost anyone I've talked to in real life about what they like about a game will give answers like this by default unless you dig further. It's just surface level content. To be fair, I dont think this is something limited to video games - it happens with movies and tv shows, especially, too.

[@joecrazy9896]

@terracannon876 That's true, especially if you are trying to explain something off the cuff.

[@Raximus3000]

Here is what i would have said "in a world very similar and different to our own an electric company has found a way to literaly sap the life of the planet in oder to produce cheap energy which allowed them to effectively rule the world and the group of rebels are the main characters who seek to stop the electric company(Shinra) are Cloud an ex shinra super soldier with odd visions, Tiffa the martial artist/bartender who is Cloud's childhood friend, Barret the single father who is the leader of the resistance group, Aerith a girl who sells flowers in the slums and is a member of a race called the ancients, Yuffie a ninja, Cid a pilot who was going to be the first man on space and Vincent a gunman who was in stasis in a coffin in a mansion for decades. As the story unfolds everyone's tragic past gets revealed and the true villain of the game reveals itself Sephiroth a famous ex-soldier of Shinra who seeks to become a god and remake the world in its own image."

[@jaybee4288]

@joecrazy9896 Actually his description was pretty apt and how most people remembered the two of them. The characters you are probably thinking of were developed later through the other media like the remake and the advent children movie. The game had very basic character development. Don’t get me wrong it is was good for its time and they had a good storyline but Tifa was known more for her polygons than she was for being Clouds childhood friend.

[@joecrazy9896]

@jaybee4288 Yes and no. You're right that just how most would remember Tifa and Aerith in that way. But that development was there if you read all the dialogue boxes and all that extra situational bits you get depending on who you have in your party at the moment. Now was it a lot, not really, but it got the point across that they were more than those immediate basic characteristics. Even without the expansive media that came out for 7 over the years. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong when you're just going off memory(especially if it's been a while). Of course, just remembering the basics like "Tifa is the hot tomboy childhood friend who punches" and "Aerith is the flower church girl who heals" is going to be at the forefront of somebody's thoughts if they aren't planning for a bigger analysis of FF7.

[@SaiyanWarriorofEquestria-qu4rt]

Honestly, surprised you were critical of both sides of the conversation. Most people would have leaned more towards one side or another.

[@joshuabautch8936]

That is the ONLY CORRECT Side No Side

[@Dragonkid1801]

Based on the clips, neither seemed completely right or wrong

[@claytonveno3710]

@@Dragonkid1801 Actually I think both sides were BS honestly.

[@cardescomedioses3674]

I agree, as much as i'm glad they tried to explain it, can agree they didn't get the message throught that well

[@mrscruffles801]

@@claytonveno3710 How was Robert's side bs?

[@Burns_RED]

Divide and conquer, J. That's the point.

[@Groomsman]

Maybe if it was Henry Cavil giving the explanation things would’ve gone much better

[@redherringoffshoot2341]

that's honestly true

[@blueclube30000]

The only beef with her writing off healer is that you think as a actress who've had to go through reference or heard about it in shows, movies, etc. She would think of healer is basically medical show or character like house, mash, and more.

[@tsunekune5753]

Semi related: The way Robert mentioned how Aerith being the sweet one and Tifa being spicy one the when in reality it's quite the opposite despite their appearances and classes reminds me of Pyra and Mythra in XC2. I don't know why but they're kind of similar to each other: Pyra and Tifa have a revealing outfit yet show a kind personality while Mythra and Aerith have a "modest" outfit yet show a assertive personality. I mean if people told them about Pyra and Mythra without any images and only context clues: Fire power + Short red hair + revealing outfit & Light power + Long blonde hair + full white dress with black stockings, most of them would probably conclude that Pyra is the sexy straightforward hothead and Mythra is the sweet reserved blonde.

[@X3nophiliac]

i think at 4:06, while Zoe could've shown more open mindedness and the interviewer could've been less combative...i dont think Zoe was open in the first place to building a bridge. bc she acted rude at first instead of minding her business it proves that she doent respect gamers, even if its her costar.😢 idk if it was possible to build a bridge though it doesnt hurt to try of course. so the interviewer shouldn't have gotten defensive and maybe it wouldve been a less hostile environment

[@dramonmaster222]

Basically both sides could have handled it better.

[@MrDp115]

Is it too much to ask adults to be mature?

[@mrscruffles801]

Tbf Robert didn't come in ready to debate over a video game character from his childhood. Nor should he have needed to.

[@QTRemnant]

I do still think that she was a little too dismissive, but as you said/showed, Robert and the interviewer could've done a better job at explaining Tifa and Aerith unless this is due to them not playing the game in a while. I think Zoe could still change her opinion if she ever takes the chance to look at the characters herself or if someone, with a better understanding, were come around to help her out.

[@cardescomedioses3674]

I think that's a big factor, they clearly remember the depth but can't tell the details, aaand i am sure they didn't want to spoil a lot of people about it, yknow, in a public interview, still there were good ways to engage by descriving the start of the story at least

[@mrscruffles801]

Tbf Robert didn't come in ready to debate over a video game character from his childhood. Nor should he have needed to.

[@LilyBannel]

Madonna and Slut. A plague conception that will follow until the end of time. I am glad you evaluated everyone in the conversation. I saw this interview and got mad at Zoe but you gave a good explanation. The interviewer and Mr. Pattinson really didn't give context for the conversation. It's like talking to my aunt about Digimon and she thinks I'm talking about Pokemon. Zoe is at fault too for being dismissive. She really came across as rude in my opinion. Like watching Brie Larson in her interview with Chris Helmsworth. It would be nice if video games weren't seen as a waste of time. Escapism is nice in moderation.

[@indigokozy9251]

Zoe seems closed off even before this conversation. Robert's got this open pose and Zoe's sat very tight and is gripping her fingers. So, I'm not surprised that the conversation broke down. I also think that Zoe was also pretty dismissive in her physical actions. When the guys start talking, Zoe gestures with her hands in a way that someone would in order to shoo away a child and I think that's what the interviewer picked up on. Ultimately, it was up to the interviewer to be the bigger person and let Zoe's rudeness slide. Though, I'm not too surprised that he didn't. Because he wasn't just talking about video games. Both he and Robert were talking about video games that made them cry. So, they put themselves in a vulnerable position and Zoe showed them blunt disregard. All of this is likely why the interviewer accused Zoe of treating both him and Robert like manchildren. Ideally, they should have started to talk about why they cried during final fantasy seven. But I imagine that, after showing vulnerability and getting a dismissive attitude in return, they weren't too keen and that's why they retreated to talking about Final Fantasy at the surface level. But, from the get go, there was never going to be a way to communicate with Zoe. She just wasn't interested and didn't even seem interested in the interview at large and the interviewer didn't know how to handle that. Good grief, what a mess.

[@KeeKage37]

Man I haven’t seen an interview go down in flames so hard. Both are biased, both have extremely skewed views and opinions. And both seemed to just want to burn the other down. Nether actor, actress, or interviewer tried to actually explain anything substantial about the characters. And tried to rope her into a conversation she clearly wasn’t interested in having. This just makes everyone look bad in general.

[@AnimaVox_]

I understand what you're getting at here and I agree that this whole scenario wouldn't have happened if they'd taken care to avoid miscommunication; everyone in this interview was wrong in some way. However, I also don't think anyone should be seeking mainstream approval or try to justify himself to the media. For one, Hollyweirdos are literally the last people anyone should be looking up to. Secondly, it's a waste of time trying to explain a game's artistic and cultural value to people like Ebert because they're not approaching the subject with a desire to learn to begin with, only to talk down to others like snobs. Many of these minds have already been made up. Those people's opinions don't matter and never did, as far as I'm concerned, and they only retain the _perception_ of legitimacy, not the real thing. I don't listen to _any_ of their thoughts on art in general, not just video games, because time and time again it's only proven to be fruitless. Most people working in entertainment are hacks, not skilled masters of the craft. Seeking out maintream popularity has only led to the Western games industry's slow descent into imitating Hollywood and dragging in all the propaganda baggage along with that. No thanks, I'll pass. I'm *not* saying that you want to seek approval from the film industry or anything, this is just how I see things. I want nothing to do with the mainstream and never did, but I can acknowledge maybe that's just me and others would like to engage with it more. I ultimately think that's a bad idea, though.

[@RaspK]

0:36 Without having watched the interview yet, the Zoë's body posture and the look in her eyes suggest discomfort and detachment.

[@vagrant2863]

Probably also has a symptom of both parties not making an effort to assert their positions more clearly. They don't pitch FF7 like the box does, they do it through half-remembered fond memories. Zoe also doesn't seem to be interested in the discussion and so makes no attempt to explain her position. She just tries to speedrun the conversation and dismisses most topics.

[@TheGameianDark]

Damn! This is really well put together... Good job 👍

[@PyrZero72]

You are probably the person I have seen with the most nuanced take on this.

[@MrDj232]

It does tend to be rather difficult to explain yourself when someone is repeatedly interrupting you. Yeah, hr sounded like an idiot. But he also could barely talk about anything without her interjecting.

[@DigimontamerB]

Yeah this tripe needs to stop.

[@MaverickhunterXZero]

A lot of videos games have become stale and most games make the player take a passive role while everything happens around them. Sony is infamous for the "Interactive movie" where the player just guides the character to the next set piece for the story. Not to mention boring and mundane character designs, only for female characters though. In games where you can accomplish eight flips while wielding a 1-ton sword, apparently, Men must look like Greek gods while women must look "realistic" which usually means generic.

[@goldlight1322]

This is a problem that’s been prevalent in society for ages. Some people just aren’t able to form cohesive arguments or don’t make any genuine effort to understand the opposition’s. We all have our own morals and biases, but learning how to look past those and see other perspectives is a skill that must be honed.

[@terracannon876]

I think it's a shame, but I frankly don't blame mainstream for not viewing video games as an art, considering how fans of video games as a whole often talk about the media. Until the criticism and reviews of video games has matured somewhat (not just in the sense of immaturity vs. maturity, but also in the general sense of the word), it'll be an uphill battle. If we can't even decide on what defines video game genres or what criteria to judge games on or even subjective vs. objectiveness of video games, there's still a lot of growing for video games to grow as being accepted as an art form.

[@Linklex7]

I mean to be fair you say that as if movie fans don’t act this way either. I introduce you to Marvel & (ironically) Twilight fans.

[@terracannon876]

@@Linklex7 yea I left a comment on another thread that basically all mainstream commenters default to this. However I think the difference is that for movies and books and such, criteria do exist in the industry. I don't think they exist for games for the industry as a whole.

[@crimsonking7179]

​​​@@terracannon876You can't agree on criteria because, unlike movies, video games are a user's experience based on fun. If it's a fun game, it's successful, and that fun comes in several forms across many genres. So I disagree. They need to get off their high horse, especially when video games at this point are out earning movies.

[@biggysmith]

is this just an american-euro cultural difference? This just seems like banter to me, rather than venomous sniping

[@terracannon876]

I think the point was that it's banter, but no common ground was reached either. They ended up where they started in terms of the conversation. But ... then again, it's not like the goal was to build bridges in the first place? It felt more like an oppportunity to geek out for the guys.

[@fan.of.nintendo]

Robert Pattinson did the absolute worst job at explaining the game oml

[@TwilightWolf032]

While I do agree the boys could have done better in that interview, I feel like their failures came out of passion for their hobbies blinding them to her dismissal, while her dismissal came from a place of disrespect.

[@Gigabowser20]

Honestly a very balanced and thorough take, I like that you tried to see it from both points of view. unfortunately a big problem not just in gaming but in everything these days is that people have a hard time communicating there points and having civil conversations so it just ends up reinforcing stereotypes and the oppositions point of view. It's to bad but hopefully it will get better as long as people can point it out in a civil way like this video did

[@fmc291]

This is always the issue with people who are fans, but don’t understand the world and characters. Or the genre of fantasy and storytelling. Then when fans who understand these things and ask for them to explain their knowledge, they get defensive and dismissive. But they’re the most vocal and loud.

[@GtheMVP]

Zoe was dismissive, snooty even, but the interviewer made it worse with his insecurity.

[@skaven969]

Love your videos

[@bbgunz1705]

Just curious, J, what are your thoughts on The Batman? I know you and M talked about the trailer when it came out, but you never talked about it afterwards.

[@johnc7389]

Everything happening in that room during that interview was cringe af. Anyone who tries to say any of them were being more cringe than the other is playing HARD favorites, lol.

[@goldenwolfae]

pattison just unfortunately isnt a good spokesperson for video games.

[@FriskyPoliceman2]

What happened to M?

[@FriskyPoliceman2]

I forgot

[@Burns_RED]

She's sick or has issues that don't allow her to join in or she doesn't want to because of it. Something like that.

[@joecrazy9896]

I think she got sick at first, then decided to take a break. Could be wrong tho.

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

I’ve been wondering about that, too. It’s been awhile since we seen her on the show.

[@X3nophiliac]

she mostly does script writing/editing now but like others are saying i think she doesnt care to be in the spotlight anymore

[@abhishekverma4029]

I haven,t played any of the FF games,but i think what happened here is that both guys had not much time & they were directly comparing both fem characters in terms of love interests & of course both them probably played the game a long time ago(probably years).

[@joelbarraclough6689]

I haven't played any of the Final Fantasy games but there opinions like that should be kept for himself or at least add more meat to the bones on there statement about there characters..im tired of hearing people how don't play video games something that not something to be treated with respect like how a news lady on Channel 6 at the UK mocked a kid for offically beaten Tetris or how that movie critics where very hostile of both the Sonic and Mario movie because is more of for the fans than it is for them especially with PlayStation's more recent approach that looks more americanized that there games like The Last of Us or Uncharted or even Horizon feel more like movies and tv shows than actual games themselves

[@kingjay7472]

People already think negatively towards gamers and video games, so more fans have to be better about explaining what actually makes a game good beyond just the surface level. You can't just say this game is great because sexy woman. It makes you and the entire fanbase of the game look bad.

[@michaelcooke4333]

Tifa is my favourite Italian politician

[@thephilosophercactus]

Real question: What part of modern day society considers entertainment a waste of time?

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Oh yeah this interview. Personally wouldn't put too much blame on Robert's explanations given that he's just trying to quickly summarize base characteristics about 2 characters players crush on to someone who not only isn't familiar but also is actively uninterested in the topic in what i assume is a limited timeframe since its an interview.He's also probably used to engaging with or at least reading other fans talk about this so that adds a bit of difficulty with communicating a nerd thing he's elated to talk about with someone not familiar. Though i get why you'd critique his approach in trying to explain it to an uninterested party. And that he probably shouldn't have bothered, even if he went in more detail she probably wouldn't have cared regardless, which is her prerogative of course.

[@xEXABYTEx]

You bring up a lot of good points. But I still think she could have been a little less dismissive.

[@kingacrisius]

She said that...

[@taffysaur]

Zoe is pretty insufferable here, but the interviewer takes pretty much 100% of the blame for making this interview so uncomfortable. 😬 He ought to have done a better job at trying to reach across to her perspective, or simply not involved her in the conversation. You’re also correct about Pattinson not doing a good job at ALL of selling this story or these characters to her.

[@traversingthedark]

I will say that talking about the artistic and aesthetic potential of video games while showcasing clips of Palworld is so ironic it made this video kinda tough to take seriously. That might have been the intention though, good points overall!

[@targetdreamer257]

Wow! That was very intelligent and well worded. I really love how you were able to talk from both sides. Able to under stand why that one side was closed off an not willing to accept anything the other side was saying. A conversation takes at least two people and those people need to listen to what the other is saying. I am so glad I stumbled onto your channel.

[@melindaweixler3682]

I love this kind of content 🍒😃

[@wendyhotchkiss7772]

13:37 People in general just can’t keep an open mind anymore because their egos are currently at the highest they’ve ever been in recent years. As a result, self-esteem is incredibly fragile now, and different/opposing opinions are viewed as personal attacks which usually result in an aggressive response. It’s really sad that a lot of humans act this way in modern times.

[@DangericeDreams]

Were you able to figure out what’s going on with the Join button?

[@mjtannertwins]

It seems to be working now. Both on the videos and on the channel. Let me know if you still have trouble.

[@Iohannis42]

Starring Taylor Swift as Aeris.

[@KingNazaru]

As someone who is a fan of Final Fantasy, especially FF7, I agree Robert did a terrible job representing the game and its characters. Zoe didn’t help by acting passive and condescending though.

[@stethespaniard2]

At first I was pretty annoyed at her eye rolling and dismissiveness but Robert really said a lot of dumb shit there

[@animationunlimited2958]

Fandom gotha, fandom.

[@barttheraven]

What is the game you're playing in this video?

[@mjtannertwins]

Palworld. I currently playing through it on my second channel.

[@barttheraven]

@mjtannertwins thanks. Also I love your videos.

[@allengilliland972]

So, you've got this...this fallen angel, this demonic force that's living in the very soul of the planet and he's trying to crash a meteor into it to both exterminate humanity and also consume the soul of the world and, in a way, become the world (I swear it makes sense in context). Then there's this Priestly character, her name's Aerith, Aeris, Aerith, whatever, and she's got her own connection to the Earth, and she knows that the planet can stop him if she could get it to wake up and notice him. So, she goes down this temple and she prays, but as she prays, Sephiroth appears and he stabs her in the back. What makes it worse is that, you, your character, this guy named Cloud, he's right there, he's inches away, and he can't do anything to stop it, because Sephiroth has been screwing with his mind, and he has to hold her body as she dies. It's tragic, not just because it's this good pure and wonderful person being killed, but, because there was this massive will they, won't they kinda thing going on between Cloud and Aerith throughout the whole game and this goes one to inform the rest of the game, making it a quest for very personal revenge, not just for the characters but for you because, in a way, you just lost this relationship and this friend you've been making throughout the game.

[@KRobinson-ko1ne]

Okay, so on the subject of video game conclusions I’ve cried during FF7 is definitely one. There’s also Legend of Zelda: Links Awakening as well as Mario RPG

[@christscrackers647]

That conversation was awful. Zoe Kravitz was being rude, dismissive and generally kind of an asshole, while Robert Pattinson and the interviewer were describing Final Fantasy 7 like horny teenagers. I think the biased opinion of video games comes from both sides not being able to see eye to eye as well, but we as fans also need to be able to appreciate and understand the nuances in video games so that we don't just look like drooling morons. Take for example my favorite Sonic Game, Sonic Adventure 2. This game has the best storyline to ever come out of a sonic game, one that actually makes you shed a tear. It's not even about Sonic really, it's about Shadow and his dark past revolving around his one promise he made too his only friend aboard a space station where he was destined to be a disease-curing experiment until the military freaked out about the research and cleaned house aboard the ARK. Shadow's memories were erased, and he had to re-discover himself all over again. He had to reclaim his identity while realizing his true purpose in life, to save the world, not destroy it. Sonic and Eggman simply get roped into the whole thing. Shadow is a popular character because he represents the path a lot of us take in life, sometimes we forget who we are or don't even really know our purpose in life until we seek to learn about it, and that's what Shadow did. Whether he intended too or not through illegal means is not the point, the point is that Shadow being experimented on (By aliens no less), being hunted by the military, and watching his best friend die, are deep cut moments because they speak to shadow's character and make US reflect on our own lives. Not because it's cool or shadow's just "A badass". He isn't popular because he's just "Edgy the Hedgy", he's the most popular sonic character because he's the one that has the most emotionally charged storyline of ANY sonic character, even moreso than Sonic himself....... Kinda like ANOTHER badass, edgy protagonist of another game I mentioned in the middle of this rant.... funny how those things work huh?

[@unigenius]

I wish i could get Zoe to watch the ff7 playthrough. She'd fully understand the weight of the chsrscters. They did so much disservice to the game! Like, they made it sound like s dating SIM instead of an epic thst starts oyt as a band of environmentalist freedom fighters going against a gisnt corporation that spirals out of control.

[@AscendantStoic]

I'll have to disagree, she was being overly dismissive and looking down on them the entire part they are gushing about FF7, and instead of asking them to clarify what they mean when they say something vague she just jumps to her own conclusions (also a small correction, Robert didn't call Tifa "sex girl" .. he called her "sexy girl", that's quite different).

[@QTRemnant]

Those two things are different, but either one would've still lead to Zoe dismissing Tifa. They are still very surface level descriptions that wouldn't get someone like Zoe to be open minded.

[@claytonveno3710]

@@QTRemnant Yeah I think both sides were pig ignorant but Zoe was still too dismissive like "OMG! Wahmens healing everyone is the end of the world! THE HORROR!!!" LOL!

[@BelBelle468]

Honestly I’ve seen a lot of women get upset over stuff like that. Maybe there’s some other underlying reasoning, as in they’re so used to men being gross they just believe men will be gross in every situation. I’ve seen ppl get angry about guys calling characters “cute”. It’s not just men, cuz i don’t know why ppl would immediately associate “cute” with pdf files

[@claytonveno3710]

@@BelBelle468 That or vajinas have been indoctrinated by wokism to the point where they assume by default that all pinises are bad.

[@redherringoffshoot2341]

atp video games are mainstream, hence the existence of "AAA games" and by that extent, the mainstream video game industry, given that there are more people than ever in gen z who play video games, the interviewed you pulled as an example is the mindset of mostly early-to-mid millennials and older generations, not most zoomers of the western world, it's just that each of the genders are more likely to play a different type of video game than one another, which I say as someone who's gen z

[@TheRavenShadowsWolf]

She was literally saying I know nothing about this topic, so I won't comment because I have nothing of value to contribute. Which is perfectly fine, and frankly admirable. She can admit when she doesn't know something; and won't stop those who do from talking without her. Whether she's in the room or not. I don't think you could get a more mature response, and the interviewer is all like "You're Judging us!" Come on man. First, that's a bad tactic to bait her to participate with, and second; grow the fuck up. I personally engaged most with FF9 - But I never cared whether the characters were hot. I liked the ship between Dagger and Zidane, because it actually leads to a canonical happy ending between the main and his love interest, for all your hard work. Not because I care whether pixels went to pound town or not. I think based on what I know of the storyline in FF7 = Tifa is the better girl for Cloud. Aerith was focused on Zack and only interested in Cloud at all for convoluted as balls reasons. [Sort of like a monkey's paw that didn't entirely suck; but still didn't give you what you wished for] I mean yes it sucks that she got ganked, but at least now she's probably with the guy she actually loves. Not just a minimal reflection, who only sort of looks and acts like him. Some of the time. I will give final fantasy one thing = several of the storylines are at least incredibly creative. To the point of being insane really, but that's not always a bad thing. I'm not a fan of the move to real time. It's an RPG - it should stay turn based if it's going to feature a party system at all. It's much easier to control your party that way. Which gives you more freedom to be "tactical." Instead of just calling it that. * For clarification due to the majority of this video's content: Tifa is the better choice for Cloud because she was his best friend. Had his back the whole time; even when he didn't remember who he was, or was certain of whom he is after what happened. She's constant about how she feels, though she has guarded moments against his own guarded nature... and she went out of her way to help him as far as I ever saw. Whether or not he seemed to be focused on Aerith; trying to figure out who he really was. I am against what they did in the remake as to her chest size - because you don't have to change the character's body type that's well established just to flesh out her character arc. The big boobs were NOT the reason most of us enjoy her character. I happen to respect any unarmed character in general, because that's the way I prefer to play. The breasts don't hurt, don't get me wrong (rather they will when she's forty or so) but mostly in my case she's a powerful teammate, who is loyal to the core, and reliable, as well as open about her desires if Cloud makes any effort at all to pursue her. There's not much more I'd ask out of a real girl if I'm being honest. Aerith's tragedy isn't that she died before they could date... she was the last of her line as far as I'm aware. I believe that Sephiroth knew this, and knew what it would mean to take her life. So the connection to those ancients as you mentioned, was severed the moment she died. That's the sad part. Sephiroth commited actual genocide, to pursue his goals and did it cold-bloodedly. It wasn't likely necessary, which makes it worse. But then I don't know the plot of FF7 that well and I've only seen playthroughs about what happens. So don't quote me. Also. Doom wasn't a bad movie. It had the limitation of working within the source material; from a video game that as an FPS was not focused on any real plot besides - You are a human killing machine, try to survive against walking nightmares literally from Hell and stop them from taking over our world. The storylines tended to come in later iterations. Even then, they weren't terribly fleshed out. So the writers had very little to work with, and the actors can only work with the scripts they're given. The Rock played The Rock like always, and Karl Urban has never disappointed me as an actor to this day. Doom's sequel, was from all I've heard, the bad movie...

[@miketrot5954]

I can see why Kristen Stewart cheated on Robert Pattinson

[@FreighttrainDaniel1225]

At least it’s not the case with Warhammer and tf2

[@djjoe8899]

completely agree

[@nicoledin7091]

I think Robert was trolling the one chick because she seems unlikable

[@xSoporific1]

Wow

[@crownedshyness9656]

While I do think both sides could’ve handled it better, it’s nice to see video games being more accepted.

[@kap1618]

I don't get the desire to see gaming as something "accepted by the mainstream." I've seen what the mainstream has to offer, and I'm not interested. If that's your thing, great, but it's not mine.

[@williamcorey4700]

Look at J. Standing at the top of a mountain. Seeing all the places she's going to die

[@UncensoredScion]

You ever think that trying to calm things down is how we’ve got to where we are in gaming, with ugly fat and unappealing video games full of messaging and insults to the fanbase? Maybe its time to BE combative, to tell the shrieking harpies where to stick their insults and to be AS rude AS cruel and AS horrible as it’s possible to be. They already think you are those things by being a gamer, what are you going to do, make your situation worse by showing them what they already say you are by having an interest that is something they don’t like? Being a nancy and being polite never gets you anywhere it actually gets you walked over.

[@BelBelle468]

if you’re combative, ppl will lose their minds regardless. Funny for them to be talking about a game where they put a female lead into a sports bra and men lost their heads when it first came out. The best way I feel is to prove that video games are the same as any other piece of fictional entertainment. Just as games can be “problematic”, so can literally every other piece

[@UncensoredScion]

@@BelBelle468 That will never work, the best evidence to show is done in this video. Where they go over DOOM and Ebert’s comments. Fans acted negatively towards his crass and ill-informed divel comments about vidya. And it took him years to respond and when he did he said “there are things better left unsaid” essentially saying “I never should’ve made the review, it added nothing positive to my life.” It is how gamers need to act. “there the door feck the hell off and don’t come back.” Do that - to ALL OF THEM - and you’ll be seen as a “horrible misogynist evil woman hating gamer who wants to control women as sex objects” But again They already think that about gamers as it is, they’ve made their opinions clear on what gamers are and how they’re acting. Steer into that and drive them away. Be the gatekeeper and be as ruthlessly horrible to those who aren’t part of the community as possible, because they’ll never NOT hate you for being a thing they hate.

[@kingacrisius]

​@@UncensoredScion That's simply just not true. Sure, there are people that will not change their minds on a topic no matter what, but nothing is gained in that situation by being an ass. A decent number of people *are* willing to change their minds, and being kind and considerate is the best way to win them over. If you act like a jackass then they'll oppose you even more, and you may even turn people away that were already on your side.

[@Vibe_Master_007]

​@@kingacrisius nah, We need to be toxic and gatekeep these normies so they don't come into our gaming community and poisoned everything just like they did with movies and TV shows. We have to be toxic.

[@Vibe_Master_007]

​@@kingacrisius Hard disagree with you. We unfortunately have to be toxic so that normies don't get it our gaming community and poison everything just like they did with movies and TV shows.

[@skywise001]

Also Tifa is a master martial artist who punches gods to death. I like her :) I can watch her becoming more uncomfortable and withdrawn as they talk. :/ "Proves that people" No just no. Do not start overgeneralizing your making it worse. When she died I spent a couple of months obsessively replaying the game to try and keep her aiive. I was super sad when i realized I coudlnt. But it was played so well I think its a vital part of the story.

[@Waaagh40KRed]

Honestly, this interview with reminds me of how Margot Robbie tries to explain the nuances of Metal to Cate Blanchett and failed. As a metalhead, her attempt at defending Metal fails spectacularly.

[@om58499]

1:40 2:40 4:20 5:30

[@i_will_not_elaborate]

I know nothing of Final Fantasy but isn't the relationship between Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa strictly platonic? And that Aerith was in a relationship with a guy named Zack? Like, there are games who have a romance mechanics but it never seemed like that to me in this case. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I think Robert being sad he couldn't romance Aerith is just another case of a guy misunderstanding a woman's friendship and making things up in his head, thinking there's something more.

[@IamtheMan1111]

He is advertising ff7

[@theOddAssCity]

I get what you're saying, but you have to remember that they're in these interviews where they're only given 15 or 20 minutes to try to talk about lots of things, so he was trying to quickly explain to her what the game was like. I'm sure if he had had more time and they were trying to have a serious conversation, he could have done a better job lol But that's just my two cents 😂

[@casbalt7763]

If it makes her feel better i didn't know who Zoe was until i googled it at the beginning of my watch of this video

[@Giggles_iJest]

I wish the world didn't go woke after 2017 Edit: I say this mainly because the chick in the interview wouldn't have been so combatative over the whole thing, saying "oh wow another caretaker" this and that, outright denying her female mother figure role--a very healthy role to encourage amongst women, proven for thousands of years to work. In fact I'd say it's key to a GOOD society and she's undermining that due to instilled girlboss ego that's been the norm lately. Admittedly though the two guys did a terrible job explaining FF7 and were quick to get defensive. No one helped.

[@Iohannis42]

I started not to care, but I hung on just to hear you say "meowsers".

[@KLWarlord]

Here's my confirmation. Robert Pattinson is an idiot. I don't even really like or care about FF7's characters, and I could describe them in a much more flattering light. It's funny that some people claim to be a fan of something and not seem to understand it. Thanks for that not-help, Robbie 🙄 Anyway, thanks for putting this into proper perspective, J. Great vid.

[@Dank69410]

Turf!!!

[@Escanor4473]

Interviewer was 100% right about calling her out. It's okay to just say you aren't into video games or have never played video games but she just kinda mocks them when Robert was trying to tell her the name of the game by acting like shes too cool for those nerdy video games. Do people just not want to learn about things anymore? I don't know shit about makeup but if a girl was trying to talk to me about it I wouldn't roll my eyes and say never mind that stuff is for girls. I would be respectful and listen. People nowadays have no listening skills and are too into themselves. Narcissism overload.

[@Bakadealer]

Zoe just thinks that Barret is the superior dating option😤

[@TheAnimeMegaFreak]

i honestly like remain open minded for when it comes to creating video games or art. like i wanna make a story with a female lead or any lgbt. i don't wanna be the guy going on assume it "wokeism" when its not really the case. we had past media that has lgbt coded (mostly to bypass censorship back in the days since people of religion would freakout like when Heavy Metal was a thing.)

[@jendoe9436]

While I can see why some people may find Robert’s descriptions unflattering or missing a huge chunk of character study, I don’t think he meant anything harmful by it. Depending on how long it’s been since he’s played FF, it’s very possible a lot of story and character has slipped his mind and he’s using more casual words as he’s trying to remember. I do something similar when talking about old media with others and it isn’t until the conversation keeps going that I start being more eloquent. Happens with other people a lot as well where they’ll say something casual, and it isn’t until you express greater interest or ask a few more questions that the person will really light up. Also, guys are generally more visual oriented than gals are, so I’m not surprised the characters’ looks are a main focus to them. Gals can be the same, if not worse, in some regards so I don’t think it’s fear to dunk on Paterson for that. There’s a lot of innate cues and biases programmed into the human brain based on a lot of environmental, psychological, cultural, etc factors so it’s not surprising someone can get distracted by the looks over story if it’s been a while. I think a lot of the issues came from Zoe, who immediately made it clear she had no interest in the conversation and expressed that opinion in a combative way. If someone, especially a guy, starts talking to me about something I’m not interested in, I listen for a bit, maybe ask a quick question, and then say something like “Sorry, I’m not too familiar with that.” If it’s just me and the other I’ll let them go on for a bit if they look really excited, and then gently cut it off after saying something nice. If it’s a group setting, I’ll make a comment and take myself out of the conversation and either leave entirely or try to follow along. Sometimes I’ll pop in with a question, but mostly I just stay back. Zoe, however, came across as someone who was annoyed at not being a part of the conversation. But rather than calmly and respectfully say something like “I know you two are having a fun time talking about video games, but I was so excited about this interview and I feel a bit left out right now. Maybe y’all can catch up on this later?” she got very annoyed and it came across more like she was mad at not being the center of attention in that moment. She also wasn’t very attentive to Paterson’s words and immediately took the worse interpretation. I think Paterson’s later ramblings were the result of nerves and feeling like Zoe wasn’t really listening to him. If someone tells me something makes them so emotional that they cry, my response will never to be roll my eyes at them and belittle them. I don’t care if Paterson’s emotions came from his character not being able to date a gal he wanted or that there were two nice looking characters he liked. He had a connection while consuming something he liked and it would have been in Zoe’s best interest to not make fun of two men crying about it. Women openly cry about things they like, even if it’s something I personally find silly like their celebrity crush getting married or a soap opera couple breaking up for the 10th time in the series. Heck, I’ve cried and admitted to it when discussing movies and shows I like. I’m sure Zoe would not have appreciated Paterson’s attitude if he dismissed something she really liked and connected with, so she should have probably just smiled and steer the conversation respectfully back.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Yeah I'm seeing folks comment how they would describe their favorite game's story with these mini essays but the man isn't gonna have the time in an interview that's not about the game that he likely hasn't played in a long time. Besides, someone like Zoe in this situation wouldn't give a shit no matter how eloquently you can describe the emotional impact the story of like, Katamari Damacy had on you off the dome.

[@jaybee4288]

Zoe is an actress who was invited to discuss a movie she was in with her co star. The guy interviewing them spoke directly to Robert about something she knew nothing about and then actively sought her response. An equivalent situation would be if a woman interviewed them and started talking to Zoe about makeup and asked Robert his opinion and became pushy when he didn’t answer correctly. Let’s be honest, if that had happened the same guys criticising Zoe would be criticising the woman interviewer for being rude and off topic. I also don’t think for a moment that Robert was offended or upset, apparently they’re close friends who wind each other up. So I think a lot of the backlash, if not sexist, is a little misguided. There’s bigger problems out there than Zoe Kravitz not appreciating final fantasy.

[@Linklex7]

Ok grow up. The shit you said is exactly the problem. Y’all don’t want to listen y’all just ready to take a side and go to war

[@artnull13]

@@Linklex7exactly the correct response would be ‘interesting, tell me more’

[@Dinosaurprince]

My favourite love triangle is Tifa at the club.

[@user-zw5yx8pw6u]

🎼🎶Communication 🎵Breakdown 🎶 - LeD ZePPeLiN🎤🎸🥁🎸

[@user-zw5yx8pw6u]

House of the Flying Daggers 🗡️ is a movie that has a romantic triangle in it, and even the 🔺is not simple and shallow. Warning ⚠️ This is a foreign film 🎞️: and is best watched with the closed captions on.

[@danteshollowedgrounds]

Sad how America and other places like it keep plaguing things with their weird ideologies. R.I.P. FUN.

[@TheKingSlayer745]

Yes Robert’s description was very surface level, but when you are in an interview and explaining stuff to a non gamer person who is already very defensive and judgemental, I think that’s the best way to describe the two characters. Tifa on a surface level is a sex symbol who wears a short skirt. And Aerith is a sweet girl who is a healer. The problem that I have is Zoey rolling her eyes, not listening what he is saying or trying to understand(she is hearing what he is saying) then interviewer decided to confront her and got combative. I have been gaming since I was 8 years old this kind of reaction is not new to me. But if I was in his position I would have described tifa and aerith in the same way he did. I would have added you have a badass big guy who’s got a gun for a hand, a dog who can speak , another girl who collects crystals.

[@dispositionguise7467]

All I see here is a woman trying to morally dominate two men because she has a ridiculous chip on her shoulder and two men shamed into protecting themselves from a completely unjustified personal attack. The guys don’t owe her an articulate response. She instigated the conflict so the responsibility for fixing it is hers.