Bigger, Better Bee Frames? Let’s Make This Happen!

[@vinofarm]

ABOUT THE GAP IN THE FOUNDATION: THE GAP IS THERE FOR SEVERAL REASONS. 1. I didn't want an impenetrable wall of plastic that the bees could not pass through. 2. The gap allows the use of EXISTING foundation from already drawn out frames you have on hand. Just pop them out of old frames and pop them into these large frames. 3. The gap allows the bees to pass through the center of the comb. They leave tunnel space in the gaps! 4. The gap is a "Bee's Choice" area. They build drone comb, queen cells and/or worker comb there. I want them to have that space to do what they want. 5. The gap allows for easy hot swapping of old comb for new comb when brood comb gets too dark. --- The gap is a feature, not a bug! ---

[@redhare976]

I would be interested is seeing how they would treat a full long frame. Strictly for educational purposes. Love what you do already.

[@sidelinerbeekeeper]

I can cut that side bar out of pine from full length stock boards in 7 cuts to a block shape of the profile with a tablesaw, dado blade, and a jointer. After that, one addition slice of the block to 3/8 pieces on the gang saw. I know you want plastic, but contracting out someone to make the wood frames in batches of 1000 and you being the sole distributor is the same idea as your own with plastic but probably cheaper with wood. Can I ask, since you built the bee barn from scratch, why didn't you shorten the height of the box to remove the space between the foundation.in the center which would eliminate the small blocks holding the foundation in the center? Lewis and sons in Canada can make 1700 pine frames an hour.

[@legionofanon]

If you continue down the injection molding route, I recommend removing the blocks that separate the top and bottom comb, have the blocks as a separate part (that can be molded at the same time as the frame) and add holes to the sides of the frames so a frame body can be made as a deep top or a deep bottom at will. Plus I can see an issue with molding the grooves in the blocks and having them as a detached part could reduce complexity and price of a mold (from my limited understanding based on some molding video I saw somewhere here on YT) Plus as detached parts, its one mold instead of two different molds to make offset comb orientations since you mentioned in a previous video you like to stagger the gaps to prevent frame bridging Edit: after looking through the comments and the requests for variability, I would look at making all the pieces separately and have them be "some assembly required" to make the frames. Along with the benefits of smaller molds (and the costs of getting them made), theres also reduced size for shipping which may save a ton in the long run.

[@vinofarm]

@@legionofanon I’m on it. That was the first thing I thought of, too.

[@vinofarm]

@@sidelinerbeekeeper The reason I made the previous video first was to share exactly HOW these frames could be made with wood. I encourage anyone who wants to make these with wood to make them with wood. If you want to start a side business making wooden bee barn frames, I will not stop you. Go for it. It’s tedious and dangerous and did I mention TEDIOUS? I’ve been hassling with wooden bee barn frames for two years and in that time I have decided to move toward the future to plastic. It is a far superior material for the inside of a beehive and is far easier to produce once the mold is made. I promise not to force you to buy my plastic frames! But I think a lot of other people will see the benefits and want them.

[@RandDTechnologiesInc]

R&D Technologies is delighted to have been part of this amazing project! It was a great opportunity to work on and to have our contributions recognized in this video. We feel privileged to have been a part of something that will have a lasting impact on the apiculture community. We are proud of the hard work that everyone put in and are excited to see the end result! Enjoy the gummy bears!!

[@vinofarm]

Thank you guys! You were there at the very beginning!

[@bryanbetournay5557]

I've been keeping an eye on this project. Any up dates?

[@SergeantMajorH]

I guess R&D stands for research, so research 14" brood boxes and frames used by the rest of the planet. This is stuff like Windows, built poorly from the beginning.

[@kdautoks]

@@SergeantMajorH Have only seen that available in the UK, not in the US.

[@OPHBuffett]

I'm in the composites industry and our plant has molding capabilities and works with many mold makers. I'll have the production manager in molding reach out. We started beekeeping the same year you started your videos.

[@SergeantMajorH]

look up 14" brood boxes. already out there.

[@davejoly4690]

I built about 30 of these frames last year and feel the same way about them - time consuming and a bit dangerous to build, but the bees and my back love them. I’d definitely be in for a kickstarter molded version.

[@Muiuiuky]

Tbh I would do the groves and frame sides using a table mounted router instead of a saw, way more safer..

[@randyb3120]

The frames were definitely the most laborious portion of the build! Just being able to buy the wood frames alone would have saved me many countless hours... I built 80 frames last winter/spring.

[@feral664]

Did you do a deep with a super? I'm half tempted to try double connected deeps. Thoughts?

[@SergeantMajorH]

why didn't you simply get away from langstroth and follow the rest of the planet with 14" brood boxes?

[@TroySilver-ig5nl]

This is just silly. Nobody who has a good grasp on beekeeping and who does not need to buy replacement stock would never ever fart around with this malarkey. It actually does a disservice to the community when u have amateurs inventing stuff that is just silly. "For your back"!!!! This clown has more followers then Bob or Ian. Amatuer and silly.

[@DollyFoster312]

I think this type of bee keeping is going to be a gamechanger for cold climate bee keeping. For centuries, keeoing the bees alive over winter (and dry) was a huge challenge. Well done Jim.

[@trailrunners1]

Yo any updates can these be bought yet?

[@hodldwon4536]

Hey, Jim I used to be in Automation/Manufacturing. Definitely a cool idea, but consider not making the frames out of a single piece. 3D printers can make shapes that injection molding can't, and simplifying the shapes/orientation can make a huge difference on the cost of mold (smaller mold, simpler geometry). And being able to flat-pack the pieces will reduce shipping costs later too. In school engineers take classes called "design for manufacturing" which is the idea of thinking through reducing cost/components/time of the tools and/or process to make the widgets. So we'd redesign something with tabs that would have needed a screw/nails before. Or turn one complicated piece into two simpler ones. What about material selection? What grade of plastic? What temperature range will it experience in the hive Vs how hot it needs to be for injection? Maybe make a looser tolerance for some sections vs critical tolerances in other places? With ten frames side-by-side will tolerance errors stack up an cause fiting issues? Or as your mold wears out, how long before the mold needs to be sharpened/repaired/replaced? Molds don't last forever, so is a rounded edge "ok", what if a part-line or flashing line appears? Does the finished part need to be de-burred? (you hope not!). That groove in the top bar comes to mind as a very hard detail to injection mold if the frame is all one piece, but easy if the top bar is a separate piece. That is likely why you see plastic frames with the comb-panel included (which brings up the issue of alternating deep/medium comb to avoid cross-combing for bee-choice gap, but then you'd need TWO molds for the alternating pattern!!!) Maybe the cheapest way to do this is to literally just make the long sidebars that can later be attached to standard wood top/bottom bars? If the custom sidebars don't need to be mass-produced, maybe laser (or water-jet, or CNC) cutting them (out of plastic or wood) is a better method than for small batch sizes of a few thousand parts? Injection molding is typically for runs of tens-of-thousands to hundreds-of-thousands of parts, so is the bee-barn style viable for commercial bee-keepers? Definitely be cautious about over-spending up-front trying to scale too fast. Or because you don't have a patent, one of the larger producers just ends up steam-rolling you out of the market, because they have economies of scale and distribution (they can push product out to store fronts that you can't get access to). Manufacturing design is not my area of expertise, but I know a little about what I DON'T know. So you should ask someone about "designing these bee barn frames for ease of manufacturing" when you look at mold design/cost Vs manufacturing cost Vs shipping cost. There's no silver bullet in engineering, it is all about trade-offs.

[@vinofarm]

A fantastic, thoughtful comment. Thank you. I found out fast that a single piece design would be incredibly difficult and expensive to mold. I am definitely planning on a multi piece design which would allow an easier mold. I made this frame 3 months ago and I’m already on a few different design ideas. I thought it was time to get the word out and see if anyone in my follower base had any contacts in manufacturing and design to get to the next step. I’ve learned a LOT in this process over the past few months. Thanks.

[@RickKincer]

@@vinofarm a two piece design would allow a frame to have a drop in foundation with flexibility. A honeycomb pattern in the mold face would lock in to the foundation honeycomb pattern and lock together, allowing all combinations of foundations.

[@jimguy08]

This is a very well thought out and experienced take similar to mine which I have had watching these videos and have just not been able to articulate as you have. Don't rush things! Let's support Jim's efforts to rapid prototype over and over again to get the best product possible. Prusa Research is a fantastic model for any new beehive design/designer in my opinion: iterate rapidly and improve. Use modern technology to do that, laser cutting, waterjet, etc -- you hit the nail on the head. Jim may or may not be able to get patents on any of it, so why sit still (injection mold) when you can be constantly iterating? There are tons of methods available here that would work really well to manufacture these frames and (perhaps) a redesigned hive from the bottom up (eliminating the Lyson hive backbone). I'd love to contribute to that, and I've been working on a similar project (small fermenter project) which is allowing me to test a lot of these concepts (3D printed parts, pour foam insulation), etc).

[@kennith.]

I agree, you could make the top sides and bottoms all separately, similar to how unassembled frames come. That way even if one part of the frame got damaged you can easily replace the damaged part.

[@Beregorn88]

The fact that traditional frames are still made out of wood and not injection molded seems to hint that injection molding isn't the most efficient way, even with huge numbers: if I understood it correctly, the only custom parts are the two extra-long vertical beams, and those could be easily (and relatively cheaply) machined on a cnc router. You could probably source a cheap machine for less than your 3D printed prototype

[@nathanieldecker9920]

An idea to consider. Injection mold the side bars. One other idea for the blocks between the upper and lower foundation. Consider making a grove in the side bar and attach the blocks with a single stainless screw. This way you can shift the block to allow for alternating foundation so the gaps do not line up. This idea came from watching one of your other video and the observation you noted about the bees creating cross comb. Love this bee barn concept. Hoping to build one with my son.

[@mathiaspeter4409]

Im grateful that you are sharing all your ideas and experience. I d love to participate in the kickstarter campaign for 1 set of frames. I had the same thoughts regarding the side blocks either holding medium or deep frame on top. Will the block be a drawback? Maybe remove the block, let bee keepers choose where to clip in their frames and have a small removable part to clip inside the side bar gap to act as those blocks. Just a thought. Thank you for your videos.

[@CraigYOW]

I would definitely place an order for 40 completed frames! Thank you for making the beekeeping world a better place!

[@karlgant8953]

I notice that the support strengthen blocks on the side bars are set such that the smaller foundation is on the bottom. Your previous video mentioned the desirability of alternating the deep medium over under placement so there is not a continuous see through space in the adjacent frames. Would you then need two versions of your mold to have two versions of the frame?

[@apveening]

I was about to mention the same thing.

[@strive4impact]

I'd be in the same camp on this. Two different molds and then a set of them would include 50/50 of each.

[@vinofarm]

I’ve already planned for the blocks to be swappable. You will choose which position they go in.

[@michaelically7893]

@@vinofarm I would make the blocks as a moulded part of the sides. Additional side form 1 block up and 1 block down.

[@FarmerC]

I love this idea. I’m building two of these barns this spring. I would be interested in the frames since they are so time consuming. Keep us posted. I’m in for at least 16 frames but not at $700 each.

[@thomasweatherby5407]

Great news, Sorry I did not see this video earlier when it first came out. But I would definitely be interested in getting several hives worth of these amazing frames. Please keep us informed when they or the Kickstarter is available. Thanks for everything you have done and shared with us, I am building a couple of the bee barns using your great build videos. Thank you !.

[@jdvanallen2907]

I was wondering about the process of getting plastic frames produced and it appears that others have shared the same thoughts that I had like the multi-piece frame, the adjustable spacer for swapping top and bottom positions for the foundations, and such. I would order 1 set (we run 10 frame boxes up here and I'd like to stick with that). Possibly quite a few more depending on price but I need to keep things inexpensive because my apiary is expanding quicker than I can afford to buy woodenware/build these for them. It's the old challenge of pricing. If you sell it high you can cover costs sooner but will get fewer orders. If you sell it low you'll get more orders and possibly a greater total dollar value but possibly not enough to cover the cost of the project. I expect that I'll have my mom switched over to this system as well. She wants them safe and happy and she wants it to be easier to manage them.

[@vinofarm]

Pricing is a complete mystery until I figure out how much the molds will cost. And then get quotes on what the injection manufacturers will charge. Everyone thinks “injection molded parts cost pennies” but that isn’t true in 2023 and is definitely not true for something as large as a beehive frame. Add in USA production and these things are going to be not pennies, but probably several dollars each just to mold. Whatever happens, I’ll be totally transparent with you and have no interest in price gouging. It’s going to be just me running the show, not a big company with a bottom line.

[@camdenedmonson1763]

Hello!!! I live in Minnesota and have been researching bee-keeping, especially ways to do it in northern climates. I stumbled upon your content and binged every video from 6.00 on. It is amazing!!! Your videos are fantastic and informative and I am so excited to build my own "bee barn" (although it still might be a couple of years). Would you consider doing a "Beginners guide video" or "What I would do as a beginner video?" It could help the new people to your channel and allow you to summarize what you have learned, what to do, and what not to do. I eagerly await your next video!

[@bigsquirrel4402]

Suggestion: A hot clamping mold would be very cheap to build, then the excess plastic which gets squeezed out is simply thrown back into the pot to melt some more. .. Instead of having a center groove, then have a side groove with a screw on cover strip? .. Or have the sides screwed together down their lengths, with an available groove once assembled. I am convinced that by clamping (top and bottom) of the mold together it becomes cheap to make a mold. One side can even be hinged. The pattern is on ther bottom and the top. Hot plastic is poured in the bottom then clamp the top down. I suggest using a high temperature silicone if possible for the mold. The silicone is on metal outer sheets to help disperse the heat and cool it. Just a thought on maybe doing it in a different way?

[@zebulonpike3147]

YES! I will fund this project.

[@williamcollins7089]

Jim, I am a long time bee keeper that took a break from raising bees for all the reasons that you find yourself battling and trying to make improvements for. I have been watching your videos and would start up again with these new frames and what I have learned from you. Thanks for sharing your plans and ideas. Bill

[@HigimuraStudios]

I currently use an Apimaye set (double deeps at the moment), but I imagine that next season I would run a deep and Manley. I would support the Kickstarter to help in the beginning and depending on the dimensions I might order ten frames to see how my bees take it. Since it's the beginning of my first year I'm still learning the fundamentals. I can't wait to see how this all turns out.

[@elta1029]

Yours, mine, & everyone's dream come true!!!! THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I started in 2020 with double deeps and in 2021 converted to double mediums. Then in 2022 in changed it up to deep & medium hives (learning from you & Fred Dunn). By far it's better for the hive. Though my back was still cramping. I'm in for the start-up. I greatly appreciate your hard work.

[@LittleDergon]

Not a bee keeper so unfortunately not going to be buying, but I am so excited for this entrepreneurial road you've found yourself on and am supporting you wholeheartedly from the sidelines. You have always had such great educational videos that I'm really excited to see you growing into this hobby that landed in your lap a few years back 😂🎉

[@larrymoon1971]

I have built 3 bee barns and want to know what the best way to introduce a nuc package would be. A. put the deep on top and let them work down into the virgin barn or B. checker board the deep frames in the barn with the full size frame, and then try working the deep frames out and into an upper deep as they get the larger frames drawn out?

[@dubstrippin]

I would definitely put in an order if you sell them. Everything about your large frames makes sense to me. I run 10 frame box but I’m sure it’ll work all the same!

[@ceesbrooms4176]

Hi Jim I Iove the idea of the combined frames . I have been using them too with double brood frames in the Simplex size that we have here in Holland. I’ve been working as an engineer in plastics manufacturing for almost 40 years. I think molding these frames in one piece is a chalange. It requires a very large mold and injection molding press. If you build a mold to make the four pieces laying next to each other in the mold you can make the groove also in an easy way . I woulld probably choose a polypropylene copolymer and make an easy snap fit on the parts to assemble the frames.

[@charleychapman304]

About ready to stop beekeeping because of back pain. I have been experimenting with options for several years. This is the best idea so far. Yes, I'll be part of a funding plan.

[@jimsmisadventuresinbeekeeping]

I have nearly come to the same conclusion as you due to the back pain, it may not be as ad with the younger beekeepers but at my age I dread inspections and have taken a more hands off approach to beekeeping the past couple of years. If the ack pain can mostly be eliminated using these frames that's a great start.

[@applehearthoney]

Hi Jim, Thank you for all of the time and energy you have devoted to your videos. I started bee keeping just one year before the pandemic hit, so you have been my virtual mentor. I have learned so much from your success and your humble stumbles. I was just wondering if you looked into a manufacturer producing your bee barn frames from wood instead of plastics?

[@chucklossus]

At this point why not get rid of the gap and have a foundation made specifically for the size of this frame?

[@vinofarm]

See pinned comment!

[@johnvanderslice7966]

Been keeping bees successfully for 9 yrs. That being said, I've always wondered why people would try to reinvent the wheel. But I have to admit this intrigued me. I'm not that young anymore and the thought of not lifting multiple deep brood boxes every day sounds good. For those saying you can't extract them, I would only say, if your extracting your brood boxes you need to find a better management system. It would be less stressful on the bees. Taking out a frame is not much stress, tearing their house into is. Anyway I personally think you might be on to something. Making side bars is not that hard, why wouldn't you just make them out of wood?

[@vinofarm]

I made an entire video showing everyone how to make them out of wood. You can still do that if you like, but I don’t want to be in the wooden frame business. It’s tedious and dangerous if you are not a woodworker. As I said in this video, there is demand for these and I know demand will grow over time. Injection molding is the best way to produce these at scale and I think they will be better in the hives in the long run. I’ve been hassling with wooden frames for the past two years. There’s a better way.

[@johnvanderslice7966]

@@vinofarm it is tedious, I'll give you that. But with a planner, table saw and a band saw plus a few basic jigs you can knock out an amazing amount of these in a days time. Anyway I think its a great idea! Don't let the keyboard warriors get you discouraged.

[@MizGizma]

I might be a little late to this ... but couldn't the side bars be made with a laser burning machine in 3 pieces and then assembled? One front and then two back sides with a gap in the middle for the black plastic comb foundation. The flow hives look like they are laser cut so its possible isn't it?

[@seribusDragon]

oh Yes laser cut. that's even better than 3d print. and would be so much faster because you can just pick the width of the material.

[@MizGizma]

@@seribusDragon Yeah, I just did some research on it ... its super easy to create files for the laser cutters. Its easier than 3d printing and the size wouldn't be a problem.

[@drozd1329]

As someone who hates splitting brood boxes i absolutely Love the design. Will be more than happy to help fund this.

[@redhare976]

Why would you have the gap in between if you are building the frame from scratch. Seams as if you would want continuous cells top to bottom if the option is there.

[@kagedsin7868]

In previous he explains he keeps the gap so bees can decide what they want to do in that area.

[@redhare976]

@@kagedsin7868 but he also didn’t have much of an option. Now he does.

[@Treespiritofficial]

@@redhare976 I agree, i think it will make the frame more sturdy removing the need of al the braces. You also would not have to alternate the frames to make sure they keep building the comb the right way. The only thing i can think of why you should not do it. i that you can never use standard size honey extraction machines. But I think the bee barn is for the bees and honey supers for the wax and honey. So that should not be a problem

[@redhare976]

@@Tanks_In_Space while i agree that is what has been said but when bees make large combs in nature they build long combs without holes or gaps

[@prof0man]

@@Treespiritofficial You wouldn't need to extract these larger 'brood frames'. You super the Beebarn with standard Langstroth mediums or small boxes with standard frames that go in any extractor. Problem solved.

[@ryancole29]

I'm hoping to get some land soon and try my hand at keeping bees! I love the ideas behind this and can't wait to see how this turns out!

[@ryanstreckfuss9590]

Hey Jim! Ready for my critiques? ;) Hahaha

[@vinofarm]

Bring it on. I’m expecting lots of opinions on why the thing that’s been working flawlessly for two years “will never work”.

[@ryanstreckfuss9590]

@@vinofarm oh your projects will work FANTASTICALLY. I know because they're just like MY super insulated hives so naturally I have some items to talk about :) I love that you're getting the info out there but why are you focusing on the gapping that happens with the height of the frames you're building? I see you have the deep and medium foundations in there because they're ideal but why not match the height of the frames with the height of a deep and a medium and have zero gaps? You could leave the extra space under the frames, which they would build out for queen cells and/or drone comb and this would leave you with no need for gussets or spaces. When the bees work the foundation they attach the foundations to the frames and it will become rigid although a drop of glue and a staple is plenty to hold the frames with foundation together

[@CaravanFarms]

I wish I was close! I worked for a modelling company back in the late 80s. I made injection molds. I Love what you are doing! Keep going!

[@AmandaTroutman]

How well will the injection molded frames do in an extractor? Do you think they'll be as hardy or hardier than wood frames? Do bees care about materials? I'm so curious!

[@justiceifeme]

You won't be putting these frames in an extractor, they're specifically for the brood box; and even if you needed to, I'm sure they'd hold up just as well as wooden frames (there are already plastic supers on the market that do the job just fine). For the most part, bee's don't necessarily care about the material the outer casing of their hives are made of; so long as it isn't toxic to them, it's pretty much Free Real Estate. People have been using plastic hives and frames for a long time now with no consequence to the bees, even the Flow Hive frames are made entirely of plastic and yet the bees still store honey in them. Hope this satisfies your curiosity.

[@vinofarm]

1. They would be far stronger and last far longer than any wooden frame. 2. These are brood frames for the brood box and will not be extracted.

[@LazyDogsRanch]

Bees will build on just about anything, it seems. I've pulled swarms from discarded tires and one from a cardboard box someone was using for compost that was also infested with large roaches. That one was pretty gross.

[@johnkese8953]

I’m in!!!! Min start order 60 frames, but probably start with 100…. than repeat some quantity each year. (Ps…. Getting mold made is expensive as you say , but the world is full of mold makers of all quality….. I use to go to Italy to get “high quality volume capable “ molds and good price…….your shape and “finish” is on the easy side, so should have no trouble finding a mold maker….. but usually the injection molder will have a tool maker they work with and you can hand the mold making over to them. Good luck….CANNOT WAIT!)

[@deannawalts7901]

Isn't this similar to the Layens frame and hive?

[@vinofarm]

No, these are about 50% larger. And they are not bound at the top like Layens frames. These are Langstroth frames, fit in Langstroth boxes and allow the boxes to be supered.

[@ryanstreckfuss9590]

Layens frames also stack sideways for the length of the hive body. These stack vertically

[@Muiuiuky]

@@vinofarm original design of Layens frames didn't touch together at the top, it was more like a long langstroth as it used either burlap or cover boards on top of the frames.. it's something that has been introduced later to simplify the design But yeah your frames are more similar to double deep Langstroth than Layens

[@jimmclaughlin4096]

These a similar to the original Dadant frames. The Dadant was roughly a Langstroth deep + a shallow combination.

[@Muiuiuky]

@@jimmclaughlin4096 not really, these are way deeper than a Dadant.. a Dadant is 11¼", Langstroth is 9⅛", BeeBarn frames are a little short of 17" if I remember correctly.. so like I said it's more similar to a double Langstroth than a Dadant

[@karenbaker6686]

definitely interested count me in....so sick of losing bees to winter... this seems like such a sensible approach and i love, the idea of lighter weight, the air tightness great work!

[@christopherzehnder]

I’m definitely interested in supporting this project, Jim. Let us know when you have more info and a Kickstarter!

[@MatWalter-q3h]

The fact that bees prefer a taller comb and want to lay as you have found is not news however of the bits and pieces purchased 90% or more are purchased by commercial keepers that wanted everything uniform. A box a man can lift also. I am thrilled you have gone the extra mile to make this idea a reality for the world. For all kinds of reasons it is good for hobby keeper every where. Wonder if my neighbor will build me a bee barn for a pail of honey? hhhmmmm a carpenter I am not. cheers ..

[@PharmSilver]

I’d certainly be interested. But I’d need a way to buy the bee barns too. No time or skill set in hand to make them myself.

[@michaelshelnutt3534]

These things are HEAVY when full. I now have several 5 Frame boxes with the custom Frames as you designed... It is rough getting them out when they are drawn out and full.

[@ChrisEdwards45]

Take my money. No, Seriously.. take my money. PayPal, kickstarter, gofundme, I’m 100% on board for this! Also, I love that you left the foundation body/medium super size that way I can buy wax locally and they can crawl to the other size quickly on their own terms like you’ve mentioned. Let’s do this!👍🏻

[@davidpittman2296]

Yes, I like your Frames and the concept. I would be willing to bye starting with 20 frames. Note: I live in South East Texas and we have mild winters if any at all. How does it work in the heat of the summer. This year we have dad over 30 days of 100+Deg. Thanks Andy

[@VillainOfBrandon]

Linus Media Group went through this process for their screwdriver recently. one thing about the molds they said is that Chinese manufacturers will make the mold for less, but you likely won't own the mold itself, also because of the culture down there, they may also start selling products made from your mold so if you want exclusivity, there is a risk to going the cheaper route here. It could be worth reaching out to them to see if they're interested in talking to you for a bit to help get you going in the right direction.

[@VillainOfBrandon]

@@danholtbk7008 This was more meant as a warning to not use Chinese injection mold factories because they'll steal your work. LMG's screwdriver is molded and assembled in Canada.

[@vinofarm]

@@danholtbk7008My plan is for USA manufacturing and production. However every US injection manufacturer I’ve talked to has mold makers in other countries. So the actual mold might need to be made somewhere else and shipped back. It’s just the way things are these days. Injection will happen somewhere near me in New England most likely.

[@HeatwaveHD]

I’m a small time hobbyist beekeeper with 8 hives (6yrs) in NJ. I have never lost a hive over winter as I block my upper vents and simply put panels of 1” insulation cut to fit my deep plus medium winter hives. I hold the panels in place with a single 4ft bungee around the hive. Very easy to store in the summer and install in the winter. Takes just a few minutes to install. These panels and bungee have have lasted 5 years and are essentially a cheap and easy version of a bee barn. Obviously not as energy efficient but the same concept. I followed your whole bee barn project. Very cool but more complex than I feel is worth. That being said, the idea of a “bee barn” frame for the brood box for even regular langstroth brood boxes could be a real winner. Particularly if I can just transfer my drawn plastic foundation from my current medium and deep frames directly over to the “bee barn frames and drop them into the top of a deep+medium hive brood setup. Maybe even gently transferring the existing foundation WITH brood and honey from my existing frames over to the bee barn frames and just drop them back into my existing hives. I think it would be a winner and a back saver with far faster brood box inspections. And I agree it might be much better for the queen and her egg laying. I would be very much interested in bee barn frames (without foundation) for my 8 langstroth hives. A total of 80 frames if the cost is reasonable. 40 frames of deep over medium plus 40 medium over deep bee barn frames.

[@vinofarm]

Thanks for your comment. You seem to have figured out the winter survival. That’s great. The reason the build is more complicated is because the insulation is built in and never removed. It’s a 4 season hive. It saves the hassle of wrapping and unwrapping and has benefits over summer as well as winter. I’m glad your bees are doing well.

[@yosefborenstein89]

Not a huge fan of so much plastic in the hive. Why can’t this be manufactured by a company already producing wooden frames?

[@vinofarm]

Please watch the video and see why wood is not ideal. I’ve been hashing through this for two years. This would not be a “single use plastic” item. Some things are better in plastic. And the bees do not care about anything but the comb and the cavity. They will be perfectly happy on these.

[@hoocli]

As mentioned, alot of people don't like plastic touching their food. Many are changing back to metal and glass. If it's just the frame / edges where honey won't be collected probably not an issue. However if they are in contact with the honey it creates possible issues

[@vinofarm]

@@hoocli Ask any beekeeper on earth where they store their honey after it’s extracted and I bet nearly 100% of them will tell you 5 gallon buckets. And if they are a big commercial outfit extracting into stainless steel, I guarantee 100% of them use plastic foundation inside every single hive.

[@hoocli]

@@vinofarm I know, just mentioning a trend I'm seeing. Those that want at home hives may prefer less plastic.

[@patfithian7985]

I don't know if anyone already asked this, but, will you need to make 2 molds so you can produce two versions of the frame.....one with the deep foundation on the top, and one on the bottom? In your past videos on the frames, you mentioned the need to alternate where the gap is to keep the bees from filling between the frames. Would you be producing a 1 piece frame, or would it be made from modular components that would give you the following benefits: 1). Common top and bottom parts, with just the need to have the 2 different molds for the sides. 2). Smaller part sizes, with smaller moulds. 3). Less chance for warpage in the smaller parts than in a single large one. 4).Reduced shipping and warehousing size, and reduced shipping costs since you can ship all parts tightly packed rather than with a bunch of open space (think Ikea vs.custom furniture) especially if the foundation is going to be supplied by the end user.

[@darreneagle9860]

I'm a design engineer and I do some work with mould tools etc. To mould that frame in one piece would require a very large mould tool, which involves a very very large machine to inject it, which limits your options in moulding places as to who has machines large enough. A possible better option is to mould them in four pieces on the same tool so reduces the size of the tool. Or even have 2 mould tools with sides in one tool and the top and bottom on another. You're possibly looking at $30k - 50k. Don't quote me on that, get a quote. China can do them cheaper, they'll also, if you wish, keep the tool and ship frames when you need them, just remember you'll have shipping costs and longer lead time to add to the parts. There are cheaper mould tool options like using aluminium core, cheaper and easier to make than hardened steel, but shorter life span.

[@vinofarm]

Thank you. I am already past the one piece mold concept… (this was made a few months ago.) You’re exactly right with your ideas. Thank you.

[@darreneagle9860]

@@vinofarm I think, if it is made from plastic you have nice interlocking feature that would negate the need for screws or nails

[@thadshileika60]

I would love this idea and would 100% support a kickstart planning on making all my hives into bee barns

[@turgsh01]

Sorry, but I think you're going about it the wrong way. Plastic frames are not the future. Bad for the environment, expensive to make and takes too much time. You'll likely have to go through many prototypes and manufacturers before you're satisfied with the result as molded plastic is finicky and there's many kinds of plastics and selecting the right thickness of plastic and cross-bracing in the hollow channels within the frames (so it's not heavy and excessively expensive to make), etc. You could be seeing a 2 year process before being able to ship out finished products to customers. Also, what's with the pointless gap in the frame? Never take shortcuts when making a new product. There are plenty of automated machines out there that can spit out a dozen completed wood frame pieces per minute that have existed for many years, so the cost would be much lower, a lot less time and it doesn't harm sea turtles. And the wood's deterioration time is predictable whereas whatever plastic you choose will be unknown in that environment. Table saw isn't the only way to make frames. As for the gap in the frame, why not make a new sheet that fits the new frame size? I do wish you the best of luck in whatever decisions you go with in the end. In the very least, you're making a great change in quality of life beekeeping.

[@vinofarm]

Two years of development has brought me here. But thanks for your opinion.

[@DialedN_07]

Plastic is not the devil. Single use plastics are the devil. You've taken a soap box and are yelling about the wrong thing from it. If I'm understanding turgsh01 correctly, you're advocating cutting down trees and producing waste in the form of cut-offs instead of a plastic frame which will likely be more durable and in use for twice the life of a wooden frame? You should really take a second and think before spouting off these nonsensical comments. And to answer your question about the gap.......it's so you can use standard bee-keeping equipment in the frame. Everyone already has deep and medium foundation laying around. Nobody makes this size foundation. So all you need to do is order the frame and use the other equipment that you already have, or is readily available at literally every beekeeping store in the universe.

[@karlgant8953]

Well golly maybe if we pause and do a little thinking ahead we can lower the number of iterations. Maybe it will take two years. As far as I know VinoFarms does not have a board of directors that demands profitable quarters year in and year out. This whole endeavor is not a do or die project. This is a hobby beekeeper with an idea that may help many beekeepers in the future. I will be watching with interest.😊

[@turgsh01]

@@DialedN_07 You cannot recycle dirty plastics, and the likelyhood of anyone being able to properly clean the old plastics full of honey and stains is slim to none, especially if there's textures or difficult to reach gaps. So they might as well be single use plastics and likely will end up in the sea at some point in the future. Also, your assumption that plastic will last longer than wood is theoretical based on zero facts. Different plastics react differently to different environments. A lot of plastics will crack in cold conditions or in direct sunlight, other plastics degrade quickly in moist environments, some plastics are a bit toxic, some too flexible, some too rigid and fragile, and let's not forget manufacturer defects and/or poor manufacturing standards, etc... I don't know why I'm explaining all this as this should be common knowledge to everyone by now.

[@turgsh01]

@@vinofarm Well then enjoy another 2 years.

[@moniquedaoust5935]

I’m in my 5th year of beekeeping and my husband injured himself this summer and could not help me…I was ready to quit. I kept saying I wish there wasn’t so much lifting involved. Supers I transfer one frame at a time and I never worry about rolling or injuring my queen, deep boxes are heavy and time consuming. I would absolutely preorder frames to help support this great idea!

[@jamescanderson1302]

I like the idea my question is if you do not have a "Bee Barn " can you use the frame in a traditional hive with a deep and super? if so that would change the way I keep bees. so I am in

[@apveening]

That is how the whole thing started.

[@cathyhanley8658]

Yes, you can use them in a deep and super.

[@vinofarm]

Yes. The point here is that these are NOT just for bee barns. This is a new way to think about your beehives.

[@jamescanderson1302]

@@vinofarm Great keep me posted I am in for 40 frames. I know that it is a small amount but I am in!!!

[@margaretsutton99]

Greetings from Sydney, Australia. Very interested. I made my own in wood by joining half depth to full depth frame using extra pieces to join them on the side. Not very strong. I am relatively new to beekeeping - a lady 76 years old and with few tools.

[@tjjastrem127]

I’m definitely interested, would really be interest in a deep deep

[@markhanna8952]

Hi Jim. I am already working on making my first set of wooden frames, from your last video, but still very interested in ordering more, if your plan works out! Great stuff!!!

[@paulhermes9817]

if foundation groove complicates mold, what about "L" shaped frame, set foundation against and then fasten with a flat piece, maybe screwed down. So many off based comments below, if they'd just see your explanations! Well thought out, plastic is perfect for this project already plastic foundation and frames in use for years now so that research would show best plastic to use. I'm in for Kickstarter and 40 or more depending on cost. After 8 years of beekeeping and working up to 12 hives I still haven't broken even on cost vs honey sales. The labor has to be free!

[@Paulmoi1]

Saw this earlier comment but definitely create a list so we can all go in and sign up for orders to give you an approx market opportunity. Cannot wait for the next update. Thanks again

[@mikeweber9766]

No longer a hobby beekeeper but been watching your bee barn series. Wanted to say I admire your innovation. Along with other new things that have come along since the 1980’s my interest is growing again. Thanks, Mike

[@alyssaradtke7649]

I'd love to get in on a pre-order! Hoping you've had some success in the mass-producing process 👍

[@saicin5403]

I have been watching you since you started years ago. I stopped raising bees two years ago, because I have 6 months of winter here and they would never make it. You have made me re-think this and I am right now building your bee barn. Thank you for sharing your Bee Barn.

[@rtxhoneybees]

Jim, I got the idea to do a similar frame about the same time that you came out with the bee barn. My reasoning wasn't to save my back but it was to not have to risk putting the queen on the ground and to simplify the inspection process. Crazy thing is I had seen part of your bee barn video before I built my frame. Unfortunately (or maybe not) I had checked out of your bee barn video before you got to the frame part. Since you opened with the super insulated sides, I saw it as not applicable to me in my warm climate. After I showed my finished frame to a friend, she mentioned your bee barn. I remembered it and went back for a second look. This time I stuck around for the frame part. And I'll be darned - I was amazed. A lot of your reasoning and mine were the same! I run a 1.5 brood box so the dimensions of the bee barn frame and the Texas deep (what I named mine) are pretty much identical. I have always built all of my frames - deeps and mediums, and I use foundation-less with fishing line reinforcing and a wax starter strip. That made for an easy adjustment to go to the Texas deep. The only real modification is I use a 1/2" side bar, instead of 3/8". Putting tension on the fishing line is causing them to bow in a little but so far it isn't a problem. I will be making a video of my frames and reasoning this week. Of course I am going to give you a shout out and credit for innovating. While I am not going to be in the market for your frames, I am going to be promoting this format so maybe that pushes some business your way. You should mention that people can try out your frames by simply stacking a deep and medium box. I'll bee doing that in my video. Good luck with your venture. - Phillip

[@donbearden1953]

Jim, have you thought about contacting one of the companies that makes the regular size plastic frame/foundation companies to let them mass produce your bee barn frames? Premier in South Dakota may work with you on that. They are some really nice people and produce great products.

[@vinofarm]

The molds needed to produce these frames are going to approach 6 figures to produce. No company is going to just ‘make a mold’ and start producing these. Also, this is kind of my idea and I’d like to be the person who gets it done.

[@banfio64]

this is awesome. i love this! I'm new to beekeeping, and just got a few apimaye hives after watching your videos and agreeing that a properly insulated hive is a good idea. Since I don't have a table saw though... and i'm still very new at this... going with a premade solution lol. I'm definitely interested in bee barns though, and would love to see how well they perform here in Baltimore once I start getting more bees!

[@Treespiritofficial]

correct me if i'm wrong. But the reason you have that gab is because there are no (cell)foundations in that size. The gab makes an problem, that is bees not building the structure correct . So you solved it by alternating the gab. And because you have that gab the fram can more easy move thats why you had to brace it with the corner braces. If you are going the injection mould route.... Then why not make the BeeBarn foundation the right size. It will solve multiple problems. You probably don't need an frame with braces. The frames would be simplified, more easy to make more easy to harvest You will not have gabs so you do not need to alternate the frames. No gabs makes it so you can't forget to alternate. And it's more easy to use the frames from different hives. It's more easy to replace a broken frame. you don't need to find out which one you need. If you ever need to replace the foundation (or clean it) you only have to remove (or clean) 1 foundation not 2.

[@Treespiritofficial]

And sinds you use the bee barn for the bees themself. And honey supers for the honey. You would not have an problem with using the standard honey and or wax equipment on the honey supers. No need to have special tools/machines for the bigger foundation

[@vinofarm]

The gap is a feature. Not a bug. The bees use the gap. A full wall of foundation would ruin their pass through tunnels.

[@Treespiritofficial]

@@vinofarm I would love an video that shows the tunnel. And what about.. making an asymetric (left right not top down like you have now) design. So you only need to turn the frame. And make an foundation that has no to little base in the corners (where the bees like to build bigger comb for drone cells and honey. )

[@robertrohrig6764]

I have been making my own frames just like yours and you are absolutely right it is VERY time consuming, if you need preorder’s count me in.

[@adamfredrickson7908]

I would like to see the Bee Barn itself injection mold with high density foam along with the frames.

[@vinofarm]

There's an idea... 😉

[@stevewoodward3051]

Yes would support crowd source. Comparison Mann lake 100 deep frames $130: 100 medium frames $130 total 260 divided by 100 = 2.60 (no foundation included) per frame if combining both together 5.20 to make a bee barn sized frame. My estimate, Bee barn frame would be worth $10-15 per frame. Would purchase 20 at this price range, would purchase more frames if I can efficiently make the bee barns. Live in Iowa need insulation for cold Enjoy you videos. Bee barn times 2 is on my spring project list. Just not looking forward to making frames on the table saw

[@CastleHives]

Jim, when you pulled out the Haribo package, I thought of my 3D printers. That is very slick. I'll be watching this process. Man, to think I watched you put the Flow Hive together now you are talking a Kickstarter. Definitely will jump in on that. Best of luck with the process.

[@NQR4real]

I'm definitely interested, 40 frames. Oh I totally enjoy the way you think and your passion for what you do. Thank you

[@dianemilligan7370]

Cool! You are a Scientist BeeKeeper, and now an entrepreneur! All for Happy BeeKeepers and Happy Bees! Good Luck!

[@larisonjohnson]

Love this idea! ❤ Don’t love the plastic. Just finished my first winter in Mass with bees. Not a success. 😢 But I learned a lot and planning to up my game in the spring. I ran a deep/medium combo and will continue that approach. Interested to see how this plays out with the plastic. In the meantime, I’m firing up the table saw!

[@johnbush3610]

I'm curious to know if this ever came to fruition. Used the bee barn for the 1st time this year, and I love it. Never saw soo much brood all over the brood chamber like I have this year.

[@vinofarm]

@@johnbush3610 Unfortunately, I have not yet found an affordable solution to have these injection molded. Glad to hear your hive worked well!

[@dandillon3344]

i think your bee barn is an amazing concept.. built 2 and both came through the winter phenomenally, thank you

[@dandillon3344]

hi...

[@jenniferhart5059]

This is so exciting!!! I would totally support a kickstarter for this.

[@shrekpower]

It is reasonable to expect that major manufacturers of wooden frames would possess the necessary expertise to provide assistance in this matter, given their extensive experience in this field. A potential solution could involve approaching established wood frame manufacturers and modifying their assembly line to accommodate the desired specifications. While this may initially appear far-fetched, it is conceivable that at least one manufacturer may be receptive to the proposal. Furthermore, if financial constraints are a concern, leveraging one's existing fan base through crowdfunding could be a viable means of securing the necessary funds to finance this initiative. It would be essential to establish a contractual agreement with the manufacturer to ensure a sustainable supply of the desired frames.

[@vinofarm]

Please convince me that you are not a robot.

[@shrekpower]

@@vinofarm hahahaha no I am not a robot. Lol

[@vinofarm]

@@shrekpower You type like Chat GPT. Ha ha ha.

[@shrekpower]

@@vinofarm You are correct, being from Quebec, my first language is French. English is sometimes hard for me to put in the right words. I often use Chat GPT to simply assist me rewording what I want to say in french.

[@mikeb062]

Hi Jim, I am just now seeing this video. How is the campaign going with the new style BeeBarn frames, I may be a bit late but, I would love to buil myself 4 bee barns, reality may only permit me to do one, but, you gotta start somewhere, right? . I am in south eastern Quebec. my winters are brutally cold. I would be into being part of this endevour, If I am not too late I would go for 4 sets of these so, 40 frames. Depending on costs of course. worst case, I would definately do 10 frames and only go with one bee barn to start off with. I am gonna have to do a lot of binge watching to catch up on my stuff.Thanks for all you do.

[@feral664]

New to bee keeping (buildong my hive now, getting my bees in the spring). May i ask why a deep and super together and not doublr deep? Size? Weight? Frame stability?

[@danholtbk7008]

Jim, I put this comment already in one of the other videos but wanted to make sure you get it. You've probably already thought of this but if you get to the point where you are having a mold made, consider having only one mold with "ears" on the top and bottom (for hanging in the hive box). The customer can cut off one set of ears on each frame, giving them the ability to flip the frames and thereby staggering the gap (as you say it should be). The ears can easily be cut off with a jig saw or a fine tooth pull saw. This will save you the expense of having two molds made. Hope this helps.

[@koboldfrozennorth]

Great Idea. how is your project working out and are people interested?

[@PilotMcbride]

Jim, I meant to post a suggestion on manufacturing or looking for a manufacturer for your large frames on the day but got sidetracked. A friend of mine got on the grog one night, surfed the net, ended up on eBay and bought himself a CnC Router. When it arrived he scratched his bum for a while, called in a machinist, and neither of them could work out how to use it, so he called me.within a day it was working like a charm. Anyway, I ended up making bits & pieces for his business and it was brilliant, and I’m sure that it would be the best thing to make each and every part for your large frame without a joint in the side pieces. The one I used had a 900 X 600 mm (3’ X 2’) cutting area. My idea would be to still rip your slates to the thickness required and edge glue them out to suitable dimensions. Top bar would be ripped thick than side and bottom bar. All the grooves, and individual pieces could be cut with the same cutting bit, whatever the groove width is, as well as the shoulders on the top bar. Again, all pieces would be separated using same bit using small tags (also cut in)to hold the pieces in place during procedure and separated on completion. So, if you haven’t got a spare couple of grand, look for a woodworking business advertising CnC tooling. All the best to you my frozen friend.

[@vinofarm]

I thought about CNC a while ago and that might be OK for small runs. But if you have a look at the comments, I’d need to be producing thousands and that’s a lot of babysitting the machine and setting up the wood. And then there’s still all the assembly. I don’t really want to be in the wooden frame business. I totally understand if people want to do that and I made the previous video sharing a process for making these with just a table saw. But I am thinking of scale and the future. If these things take off, I’d rather have a mold and make it easy for people to just order them. A CNC would be nice for other things, though! Someday…

[@ErikNWalker]

That's so perfect! I would definitely buy some!

[@user-eb7dm6wh1t]

I love the design. I would definitely buy a few full bee bans regardless of whether if its plastic or wood

[@kennith.]

Jim and to have them CNC'ed from wood, kind of like a flatpack, then assembled?

[@HeatwaveHD]

Have you considered just creating and selling the side bar with the gussets built in?? That way beekeepers could build new “bee barn” frames by just buying top and bottom bars with readily available and inexpensive parts on the market today. By just buying gusseted side frames, beekeepers could even carefully disassemble existing frames to transfer the foundation and top/bottom bars over to the new deeper frames using your side bars.

[@vinofarm]

I’ve considered many options. After hassling with wooden frame production and assembly, I decided to streamline the process and try for an injection molded frame. It’s the vision. It may not work. I want to try.

[@eugenecbell]

My wife and I are beekeepers. I have been watching you since you first beekeeping year. KZbin has not offered me any of your videos in years. We have a hundred hives with all medium suppers. We also have had issues with queens not laying across the divides. We have been planning to transition to very deep frames like these new ones you are prototyping. Great work and good luck. I will be interested in what you end up with.

[@danieldorchester5221]

I’m in. I have 10 & 8 Langstroth hives, 2 flow hives, apimaye hives and 1 laynes. I have been following you bee barn with interest.

[@Rose.L.]

Thank you for the awesome bee barn design. I'm very interested in supporting this project. Altho we didn't start our beekeeping journey yet. But you are definitely inspire us🙏🏻

[@JamesMcKeown6520]

Hey @vinofarms, are the frames available to buy yet?

[@annkrupa2349]

I am totally with you on this! Excellent! I have my boxes and putting all together this week. Will you still alternate the deep and medium on the frames so the center isn't just one long opening? I hope this all goes to plan for you. Very cool!!

[@vinofarm]

There will be movable spacers so alternating is possible.

[@PattiBrainard]

Yes, I would support your Kickstarter and I would buy 20 frames minimum to start. What about your Nucs. Did you custom-build those to fit the frames too? Have you published a KZbin on this yet?

[@AdmirCernica]

Good question

[@coreywolff4548]

Do you have a CAD/STL file for just the side bars? While printing the entire frame is not feasible on a home printer printing side bars alone would likely be doable on a home printer. Then those could be combined with standard pieces to make the frames

[@recycledwisdom]

Looking forward to purchasing your new frames

[@1christylynn]

Let us know when the kickstarter begins! I’m a full supporter!

[@DougMcHone]

I'm still interested. Perhaps 2.0 could mix the top and bottom sizes. 3.0 would be an option for double deeps. Also, I'm considering using deep/medium boxes for new hives next year instead of bee barns. This way I can mix regular frames (including drone frames) with bee barn ftames. I do plan on making a removable outer insulated shell that can be marketed to traditional box users.

[@keithsippel3372]

I like the extended frame but I have one concern? What are you doing to remove the honey? I have a centrifuge but the extended frames will not fit in my current centrifuge?

[@vinofarm]

These are brood frames for the brood box. They are not extracted. The hive is supered with Langstroth supers and you extract regular super frames.

[@davidlaing7684]

When you made the first large frames for bee barn 1 did you transfer the foundations with the filled frames of brood etc to the larger frames as to not loose them?

[@vinofarm]

I built the first round of bee barn frames with drawn comb that I pulled out of old Langstroth frames I had. Like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHzChXqceb6KmaM

[@jdogsbad]

By-the-way, I would like to know how you would harvest the honey. My separator would not be able to handle a frame that size.

[@staffydot7075]

What about printing the difficult sidebars, much denser printing area and smaller printer required, then attach / glue to wooden top and bottom rails ??

[@mattm1661]

Definitely Interested in fitting out my 5-6 Double/Medium combination hives! Have been a massive follower for years and absolutely love your passion, attention to detail and engagement. I also don't expect nearly enough as going through the double brood boxes is a pain and a massive time constraint. Having an ability to utilise these double frames in my existing system initially will be life changing for not only myself and my bees. Keep me posted, looking forward to the shipment to Melbourne, Australia!