Was Degrassi Queerbaiting?

A Reddit comment got NotAVampyre thinking about queerbaiting, if Degrassi is guilty of it, and what may be a better example of the transgress.
Link to the Reddit comment: / im_glad_zoe_and_grace_...
I do Let's Plays on this channel: / @thearchplays5533

[@Ross-cecil]

Figuring out your sexuality is hard. I think it would be interesting if there was an arc following a character and they turn out straight, kinda like Zoe and Grace, but from Grace's POV.

[@NotAVampyre]

That would be interesting. I like that idea!

[@Silas.Willoughby]

This is extremely late and you probably know this, but they actually handled that topic back in Degrassi Junior High/High with Caitlyn!

[@NotAVampyre]

Yeah! Unfortunately it was very brief and not in much detail, but I love that it happened

[@homosoftommorow]

Yeah what bothered me about the plot was that we didn't see any of it from Grace's perspective.

[@drethethinker6418]

Yes, Grace does absolutely nothing before the kiss to suggest that she wanted an actual relationship with Zoe. The kiss is what conflated the entire situation. This wouldn't even be a topic, probably don't know for sure, had Zoe not kissed Grace. I think the kiss sent the signal to audience members that they were going to hook up--it's the same with Imogen and Fiona...the kiss is what made it seem more and more possible that they would get together. I think what I am going to do now (because I have no life lol) is rewatch the movie and the episode where Imogen and Fiona kissed just to compare and contrast the scenes for build up and reactions.

[@NotAVampyre]

Rewatch the movie at your own risk

[@LizzyThewolf]

The thing is I don’t think they were queerbating Graces sexuality, they were queerbaiting Grace and Zoe’s relationship, it was clear that there were romantic undertones because of the kisses, the handholding, the ‘sex’, forms of romantic tension so much so that even Zoe saw it as that- I still like that they didn’t make Grace attracted to girls cause it seemed way to ‘lesbians are supposed to look and act this way” which is a sterotyoe while Zoe opened the door to the fact gay women can be anything

[@LizzyThewolf]

Sidenote: I totally agree with your argument against Grace being used to queerbait, but I don’t agree that Zoe and Graces relationship wasn’t even a minor case of queerbaiting

[@NotAVampyre]

There was certainly tension on Zoe's side, but a part from the movie, it was clear Grace didn't feel romantically for Zoe. What Zoe interpreted as romantic/sexual interest was more in her head as it took her by surprise when Grace said she really wasn't into it. Kinda like a he said/she said scenario where both parties have wildly different experiences of the same event. Queerbaiting as I understand it is making a couple seem OTP without a doubt, and then handwaving that they were straight or never going to happen all along. I still stand by that the film was guilty of it due to its unclear stance on Grace's sexuality, but their relationship does not fit the bill as there were many noticeable hints that the two might not work out.

[@LizzyThewolf]

NotAVampyre well queer baiting is more about hinting then “without a doubt” but I get your point, I think I interpreted in a way that they were hinting at a relationship but I guess it’s pretty subjective

[@lindseycassella3015]

She may not have acted romantically but Grace did flirt with her. If I had never seen schools out and started watching new class I would think youse l those 2 were into each other but Grace just wasn't sure. After you find out she has CF you think Grace doesn't want her to get close that makes sense.

[@NotAVampyre]

People can accidently flirt.

[@StylusShade]

Maybe I need to rewatch it, but I feel they should've foreshadowed Grace's heterosexuality and especially her crush on Zig a bit better. It's great that they tried to represent this sort of dynamic that happens a lot in real life, but at the very least, she should've warned Zoe that she wasn't sure if she was into girls sooner, because as it is, even knowing all this, it still feels as blindsiding as Hans being a sociopath in "Frozen".

[@Chelaxim]

Not queer baiting but possible retroactive continuity. My favorite thing about Degrassi is how LGBT characters are written very well. Unlike other shows they acknowledge than masc and femme both exists and there's nothing wrong with either. Degrassi also treats the LGBT characters the same as everyone else they are neither a villian with no redeeming qualities nor perfect little angels with zero flaws who only exist to teach the others (and by extension the audience) a good lesson then disappear forever after said lesson was taught.

[@NotAVampyre]

Agreed. It seemed that they weren't certain where they wanted to take Grace's sexuality early on and wanted to keep her open to everything. Thus why it seems they were hinting to possible queerness that ended up not amounting to anything substantial in the end.

[@vmkblaster1]

Totally, Tristian may be gay, but he has such bad character especially towards Maya

[@NotAVampyre]

@@vmkblaster1 Bad character is very different from bad person.

[@elderemodemon]

It just felt really forced, like it was shoehorned in at the last minute. Paige and Alex NEVER felt forced to me. Paige did struggle with her sexuality and claimed Alex was the only girl she'd ever been in to but they alway felt natural. Fiona's arc flowed too, being in love with your best friend is a typical trope but it worked. Zoe's just felt random and rushed. But I liked that they included Grace experimenting with Zoe and realizing it didn't feel right, I related to that part

[@NotAVampyre]

I think it only felt off to me because of how their romance started in the Don't Look Back movie. It was a bit stumbly how they wrote a reason for Zoe to spend time with Grace. After that point felt better to me

[@bestabothworldz2766]

I believe she did have a thing for Zoey just refused to try anything, because of her sickness. Jonah is accepted only due to the fact she just assumed he would leave on his on with Frankie.

[@slaygeyt]

Who was your favourite built Degrassi character? My favourite was Holly J. The way they led her on as a typical popular mean girl, as the other students in the school would see her as, but then eventually developed her story as shown when her parents had to start being stricter with money. I’m not sure if I explained that understandably, but I’m genuinely curious, who were your favourite developed characters?

[@NotAVampyre]

Hard for me to say. I'm certain I'm forgetting others, but Holly J is certainly one of my favourites. Dallas is up there two with his decision to not just be a father but to also be a good person. Zoe is also a favourite of mine. So much so that I did a whole video on her.

[@epicharry1172]

She said it was her first time with a girl

[@NotAVampyre]

Zoe said it was her first time with a girl.

[@sammitchell5908]

@@NotAVampyre do a video on is ashely a hypocrite

[@NotAVampyre]

I dunno if I will. When do you think she was a hypocrite?

[@sammitchell5908]

@@NotAVampyre ok she was complaing about craig cheating on her but at season 1 she cheated on jimmy

[@NotAVampyre]

You forget she was under the influence of E. Craig was sober the whole time. Seems more separate than hypocracy

[@cokebenni]

What’s the name of that song playing in the background?

[@NotAVampyre]

It sounds like it's a loop I had gotten from a royalty free loop website before I switched to royalty free KZbin provided songs. I think the username of the person who made it was romanul12341 based on the file name.

[@emilygamble8375]

I think that they did have sex. Correct me if I'm wrong because it's been awhile since I watched DNC Season 1 but I'm pretty sure if you watched back to the scene when Grace tells Zoë that she likes Zig, and that she tried for her, from what Zoey said, it's made it seem like they had sex. Maybe I'm just reading into it. And also I remember in season 4, when Grace was checking things off her bucket list, Rasha did ask if she'd ever had sex before. Grace said yes, and then Zoë and Gracd made awkward eye contact.

[@nechma13]

Emily Gamble that doesn't make sense cause wasn't grace a virgin, wanting to lose it with that guy before she died because of the lung transplant concept?

[@LizzyThewolf]

Grace said she had done some sexual things and glanced at Zoe which I think hints at the time Grade slept over and it was hinted at that they had some sexual interaction

[@NotAVampyre]

It wasn't clear really. All that was certain was that she and Jonah weren't having sex and Esme was the one who thought Grace never had an orgasm with someone else. Grace looked Zoe's way later in the episode when she stated she's done some stuff, but what it was we don't know.

[@NotAVampyre]

Grace only said she did some stuff, which doesn't make clear if that stuff could fall under the category of having sex.

[@NotAVampyre]

Some sexual interation, but not necessarily sex.

[@michellesakura1]

Seems like they were just stereotyping Grace. I know straight girls who dress on the Gothic side and to assume Grace is gay based off of that...ehhh not fair. In the end Grace was just looking for a good friend to trust and she didn't want to lose that. Probably was tired of that feeling and Zöe misunderstood that for romantic feelings. Maybe Grace should have told her sooner but at least she did stop the whole romantic idea, and for the record Don't Look Back was so bad compared to other Degrassi specials

[@NotAVampyre]

I feel that they couldn't have made it clearer that the goth=gay thinking was totally bonkers by having both Miles and Tristan say it as though it were fact. As if to underline "this is what you sound like when you say such nonsense." And yes, I had a hard time even looking over the footage for this video from Don't Look Back. And people give Degrassi Takes Manhattan a hard time...

[@zoefaith2740]

Nooooooooo oh my gosh. They are not queerbaiting, it's just how the show is written!!! This kind of show deals with different kinds of realistic situations, so it makes sense for this to happen in the long run!! Ahhh I hate when people say this!!! It wasn't, surprise I'm straight, it was more of Grace figuring out her sexuality.

[@sweeety969]

I agree!!!!! People will cry queerbaiting nowadays just because their crackship isn't canon. There's some cases where it's valid like Mulan's story arc in Once Upon A Time, and while making two different wlw couples on the show does go some ways towards fixing that problem they had with representation, the issue with Mulan's story line remains. That really WAS queerbaiting. But Emily's relationship with Alison however was never about queerbaiting and always about the way Alison manipulated people using their secrets and her uncanny ability to look at people and just know exactly what they wanted from her at all times and presenting the version they wanted to see.Alison's character was always portrayed as a master manipulator who didn't let anyone close enough to see the real her and craved power over people in the form of their secrets and in the form of closeted baby-gay Emily that meant flirting with her and exposing her sexuality and then shooting her down and shaming her for her sexual preference and using the knowledge of her otherness to subjugate her the way she did with Paige for example. it was never a romantic relationship. So for those deluded people who insist that Alison only treated Emily horribly like that because she wanted her and she was punishing her for it to drive her away, they need to remember that she tortured Paige much worse using the same secret so by your logic, she must've wanted her way more. Alison queerbaited Emily at the start but the show did not queerbait the audience. The show made it abundantly clear that Alison did not reciprocate Emily's feelings on several occasions and given Alison's well-established manipulative character, even if they did end up together it would not prove anything considering the circumstances (Alison was pregnant, desperate and alone. Emily was the only person who would still give her the time of day. She was allegedly traumatised and reproductively raped and had nobody else to turn to. This being a person who was used to having options and people who were willing to do shit for her, and is now forced to resort to using her 'friend' because she has nowhere left to turn. Not exactly what I'd call confirmation of her feelings for Emily. This isn't romantic in the least. I hope they break up for the spin-off and don't force the issue for the sake of fanservice even more)

[@suprea107]

Maya (PLL) will always be my favorite

[@Shaylovespopeye]

You’re wrong again they were definitely telling us that they were gonna be together. Grace definitely enjoy that kiss with Zoe and then they did the 180 so you’re wrong. Next class is terrible.

[@NotAVampyre]

I just don't agree. Grace's body language doesn't look like enjoyment. It seemed more like "I'm confused and don't know about this. But I'll try because Zoe is special to me". She looked exactly like I felt whenever someone was trying to be intimate with me before I knew I was asexual. I would "just try" hoping to get that magical connection everyone talked about, but then it wouldn't happen, and id be scared to admit it to my partner for fear of ruining our relationship.

[@Shaylovespopeye]

@@NotAVampyre let’s agree to disagree

[@epicharry1172]

You watch anime

[@NotAVampyre]

Yep. Wish I had time to watch more these days

[@tylerwatkins2923]

Do a video about Zane & Riley from Degrassi

[@NotAVampyre]

Prolly not a video on them specifically. I already plan to bring up their relationship when I get to talking about Riley's struggle with accepting his sexuality.

[@tylerwatkins2923]

NotAVampyre to me it seemed liked Zane was always pressuring Riley and guilt tripping him into doing what he wanted him to do

[@NotAVampyre]

A bit. At times he wanted to push Riley more out of the closet than he was comfortable with, but there were quite a few times where he had a point.

[@sweeety969]

I noticed a lot of parallels between Riley and Zayne in Degrassi and Paige and Emily in Pretty little Liars and I think it's interesting the completely different receptions the two armored-closet-gay characters have in the shows. People call Paige 'psycho' for acting aggressive towards Emily at the start of the show but later on we find out she had been bullied by Emily's friend who gaybashed her and used her sexuality to blackmail her and tormented her to the brink of suicide (and heavy hints that she caused her to self harm). A lot of people still used her own bullying of Emily against her even though it only happened over the course of one or two episodes and Paige's character had developed into a way softer, kinder, gentler person by the next season and had by far the most character progress out of any character on the show, yet, as a lesbian she was held to a different standard than the straight people (including her bully) on the show. Riley however seems to not be universally hated despite his constant backtracking and how much his own coming out storyline dragged on (Paige was out in less than a season and roughly a couple of months in the show's time line, compared to Riley's arc spanning several seasons and episodes and him barely being out at the end of his entire story arc) and how much he put his partner through. Paige dunked Emily's head a little bit one time. Riley consistently gets into violent fights with other people to protect his 'manhood' and such. And yet she's considered a psycho and everyone says she tried to deadass kill her future girlfriend and shit like that while erasing or whitewashing the actions of her (and Emily's to a degree) abuser.