Was Tears of the Kingdom worth the wait? | Zeldudes Podcast #3

[@Zeldudes]

Thanks for watching! We're back up on Spotify! Also, please let us know what you think about these episodes! Would you prefer podcast episodes to be shorter or longer? Do you like the background music? Any feedback is appreciated!

[@EchosOfWhiterun_5555DocOfStyle]

I think that the *WAY* in which you guys have it right now is okay by me. I think it's a *good* thing that you *Comment* the way that you guys do because both of your *Personalities* tend to come out very *WELL* that way!!! ~ JonseyG 👲💖

[@Firemage0520]

I’ve been enjoying these a lot, the music is definitely a nice touch. I do think they could maybe be slightly shorter, most of the other podcasts I listen to tend to be 1-1.5 hours which feels like a good length, sometimes the longer ones feel harder to get all the way through (which maybe could hurt performance metrics? I don’t know too much about that though). Anyways though I’m overall loving these, keep up the good work!

[@Hinaichigo1713]

I think and hour to an hour and a half is the perfect length, once it gets past that point it feels a little too long and depending what I’m doing I may not be able to listen to the whole thing at the same time as whatever I’m doing or going to be doing, so I often have to watch these in parts. I guess people can do that, watch it in parts at their own pace, but I wonder if that hurts your metrics (or at least messes them up) in terms of watch time and engagement.

[@Lexi-M]

I’m not crazy about the music. Pod episodes could be slightly shorter. Loving the content and super excited you two started this 👏🏼

[@litfilms_7]

The art in the second half of the episode is absolutely immaculate as always, but I personally think it’s more fun to see you both on camera here since listening on Spotify will be just audio. Overall, this was lots of fun!

[@3than458]

Personally, I think the geoglyph problem would have been really cool if they had turned each memory into a tiny section where you can play as Zelda. Just imagine you find a glyph, and then you get transported to the past, where you play as Zelda trying to figure out where to go, and you’re able to explore small parts of the world from thousands of years ago. That way, you would experience the story first hand, while also having link learn about what happened and stuff. Plus it would just be awesome lol

[@LogoKroko]

Awesome Idea!

[@incius8341]

yeah, but then you'd get to play as Zelda which Nintendo disallows.

[@ShallBePurified]

So like how Witcher 3 did it, which is a good way of handling it.

[@3than458]

@@ShallBePurified never played it so idk but if that’s how it worked then yes

[@tristanneal9552]

Had this same thought for BotW. Have the memories be playable. That'd be even easier because you'd still play as Link.

[@axelindigovt]

As much as I enjoyed TotK, it really made me feel that the fans care more about the lore of the series than Nintendo does. The inconsistencies between BotW and TotK were so great that I started to think that we were in another timeline where BotW happened a bit differently. In reality I think Nintendo just wanted to avoid the player needing to play BotW to understand the new game, which is valid but since they marketed it initially as a sequel to BotW the inconsistencies irked me.

[@XanderVJ]

There were far better ways to bring people who didn't play BotW up to speed than the mess we got. Especially considering that the game is incredibly inconsistent. There are supporting characters who remember Link, no problem, and characters who just... don't. Also, BotW sold 30 million copies. Do they expect selling over 70 millions copies of TotK, thus justifying prioritizing newcomers over the people who bought the previous entry to such an alienating degree? That's not "caring about continuity less than fans do". That's just... Not caring. Period.

[@mljh11]

Nintendo has never cared that much about Zelda's lore, at least not in the way that a dev studio like Bethesda cares about the worlds of the Elder Scrolls and Fallout. It always seemed to me that Nintendo prioritises interesting gameplay mechanics and the individual game's story over the larger continuity of Hyrule's history. So for example if Bethesda introduces a race of creatures you can be 100% sure they've got its origins, history, politics, disposition to other factions etc all meticulously mapped out by their lore masters (an actual job description at Bethesda) and implemented over many games. On the other hand Nintendo is happy to chuck a Picori or Lorule denizen at you for one game then afterwards banish them to some forgotten realm forever. As a fan, I avoid getting disappointed by Nintendo's handling of its characters by realizing that they are more interested in using the archetype for mechanical purposes (e.g. quest giver) rather than fleshing out the life story of the individual person (e.g. Kass) they choose to depict in their games.

[@LinktheCommunistWaifu]

​@@mljh11They have cared about the lore before. Bandit Games made a video about it.

[@mljh11]

@@LinktheCommunistWaifu Well regardless what Bandit thinks, Aonuma and Fujibayashi did a recent interview with Game Informer and expressly say they only care about the timeline "to an extent". It's obvious the series lore and continuity is of secondary importance to them, the mechanics and story of the individual game always take precedence.

[@lapniappe]

​@@mljh11 the thing is, I don't think they are wrong to focus on the gameplay first and then work the lore around it. because they've been doing that for years. i remember these comments on other zelda titles themselves. and I think it's very disingenuous to believe that they NEVER did that for 18+ titles and then these two they went. "No we're going to back it up and just focus on the game and then we'll tack on the lore after. They took the care before. the question is (and should be) did they stop now. i think it would have served them better had they just flatly said. "we wanted to try something new without being tied down to the lore and seeing how thing work." it would have been more honest at least. there are a lot of things that felt like they wanted people to play this without truly to play BoTW (the fact that hardly ANYONE remembers Link should be one big fat ole clue there). and they wanted to nostalgia bait a lot of the older fans by throwing in a few big bones in the trailer. I do believe Aounuma is better than that. and i really hope that a lot of the quiet discontent. (because I do believe a LOT of zelda fans do the game even if it's not their favourite or anything like that). resonates from them. and they can find a way to balance what want to do. (which is clearly have open world) and what a lot of zelda fans want to have which is a more linear game play with strong interconnected story within the game - as well as in the lore. I do believe this team is very capable of doing this it's very much at this point a matter of want. And i suppose we'll see.

[@samgrainger1554]

Frequently I found myself thinking "alright, now I've been taught the gimick of this shrine time for the puzzle" but it would already be over

[@Matty_Meister]

I think like anything, too much hype can be detrimental to any game. Because it exceeds regular standards. Tears of The Kingdom is an amazing game for me, because I actually took a break from Breath of The Wild and haven’t played it since it came out. I also avoided over analyzing trailers for ToTK. So when I played TotK, it was extremely fresh and revitalizing for me. I know you guys have not had that opportunity because of nature of your content/videos, just wanted to provide a perspective for you guys.

[@amandaslough125]

I hadn't played BotW since 2018, but I still could feel the sameness. The world was made for BotW and it shows. I could even identify koroks I remember grabbing in the previous game that were a hill over from the new spot (or the same spots).

[@JJMomoida]

@@amandaslough125 I had this exact feeling. I played BOTW a few months after its release. Although I didn't 100% it, I did... a majority of the shrines and other extra content that left me feeling satisfied with the game. I put it down and didn't touch it again (and tbh I don't think I ever will. That game is like poison to me when it comes to replayability)... And yet I still felt that same "yuuup... this is kinda BOTW +1" when playing TOTK.

[@Ray-dl5mp]

Tears of the Kingdom is kinda a remaster of BOTW without the better graphics. If that makes sense. That being said, I still think it’s a great game overall. It’s just not as impressive as a sequel (would be a 10/10 if BOTW and Elden Ring didn’t exist) and I wish they made different choices overall like how the story was told and how the dungeons were handled (but still cool).

[@Zerolink30]

Interesting, there are people who wanted the Depths to be lit up more. My complain is the opposite, i wished the Depths remained completely dark with only a miniscule area around the Light Roots lit. I thought they were going to be more as Safe Heavens from like Alan Wake. Of course, i was also expecting to be hunted down (originally by a Dead Hand covered in Malice) by Gloom Spawn at every turn. Just imagine that every time you touched down on the Depths, this thing noticed your presence and hunted you like a starving animal with your only respite being the Light Roots. Course the "Zonai workshops" would have to be close to the Roots so you can at least freely create vehicles to move around, as running wouldn't be enough. It also would've given Flash fruit a bigger use other than, stun enemies for a few seconds.

[@legomaster2538]

Were they to do another discussion about TotK, I have some topics I’d love to hear their opinions on: Ganondorf The Sages (By that, I’m referring to their storylines, their roles in the overall plot, and as party members) Yona and her domain The boss fights Kass’ whereabouts No plans for DLC Content they would have loved to see in DLC

[@maccajunior]

With the Yiga slapstick, Japan is very well known/big on slapstick comedy. Its a big staple of their young adult fiction. So it was something i loved in both ganes. I still prefer Master Koga in Age of Calamity though. He felt a bit more powerfuk

[@HaruVibes_]

I played TotK every day since release for almost 4 months. One of the greatest experiences I've had in any creative medium and one I'll be thinking of for many years more. Everyone has their own perspective on this game and honestly that's what makes it so beautiful. I sympathise with many criticisms fans have even if they didn't necessarily effect me.

[@TLOZTP_fan]

I can never get bored of any zelda based discussions, so I love the podcast. This is the perfect way for me to just watch and think about zelda topics.

[@kingbowser6991]

Same I drive a route alone daily and I’ve been binging Zelda totk reactions/podcasts

[@Silvershire]

I have nitpicks of course, but for the most part, TotK is exactly what I wanted. A long time ago, I made a video about the top 5 items I wanted in BotW 2, and we got 3 of them: glue for building contraptions / weapons, ways to mitigate slipping in rain, and smoke bombs. The only major issue I have with it is that I don’t enjoy the Depths. It’s massive, repetitive, and annoying to traverse. I would have preferred those resources to go towards more Sky Islands instead.

[@Silvershire]

@@tinker_belle41 I liked it, although I was disappointed by how little it connected to BotW.

[@Hinaichigo1713]

The comment Rauru makes about the sky islands not having been sky islands at the time he was alive and wondering how they came to be so implied, to me, that these islands were what Hylia lifted into the sky (because how else would they have gotten up there?) which means his Hyrule existed before the “origin story” of the series. That was a big blunder in my book. They need to be more consistent about the order of events and at least keep some events permanent/canon, because bulldozing your origin story for a series that’s been around as long as it has and is as popular as TLoZ is just isn’t a great move. The fans clearly want some level of consistency in terms of lore and story elements and want more effort put into the details of how things connect - we want the history and “rules” within the game’s world to make some level of sense at the very least. It doesn’t have to be extremely fleshed out and majorly detailed like LotR or something, we just want the basics in place and the order of things to make sense. ToTK could have accomplished this just fine, but they went off course in areas it wasn’t necessary to do so (like Rauru’s comment about the sky islands) and completely bulldozed their own origin story when they really didn’t need to touch it at all.

[@Hairo-rv9kl]

It's actually revealed in the ancient tablet side quest and in a side quest from a construct atop the temple of time quest that the sky islands were the work of Zelda and Mineru as part of Zelda's plan to stop Ganondorf in the future.

[@Hairo-rv9kl]

Personally, I have very mixed feelings about this game. On one hand, it's without question one of the best games I've ever played, but it just leaves so much to be desired. I was really upset (and still am) when they announced there wouldn't be any DLC because when I finished playing I was left with this want for more. More sky islands, more depths content, more enemies, more quests, more story, more answers. And then when that revelation of no DLC happened it was like a slap to the face. That was it. And I will never understand people who feel satisfied with what we were given because it just feels so inconclusive. It felt like they were deliberately withholding content for future DLC, stuff like the fate of the Zonai, the mysterious people of the depths, the story of the 3 dragons, Twinrova. But no, that was it. And it's almost certain that we won't be exploring most of these concepts again, or this Hyrule in general. The game is still amazing to play, and I've spent about 250+ hours on it, but it doesn't change that feeling of emptiness knowing that this is it. It does feel somewhat like it is our fault that we overhyped the game and assumed it was going to be this earth-shattering, once-in-a-generation game that would incorporate all these amazing elements and follow up on all the lore and theories we had and make BotW look like a beta in comparison, and we probably should've kept our expectations far more tame, but it really does feel like it overdelivered with new gamplay features, and underdelivered with lore, exploration, and most importantly variety. If you made it all the way to the end of this comment, then apologies for wasting your time with my rambling. Just wanted to get this off my chest.

[@A-RonHubbard]

Man, I couldn't have written a better comment myself! It's almost like you're my brother from another mother with the way you think. As Zeltik and his friend says in the podcast, it's still one of the greatest games I've ever played, but I'm such a huge fan that I would like to have seen so much more. And yes, perhaps we all should have kept our expectations in check. But I was certainly devastated by the no DLC announcement.

[@Hairo-rv9kl]

@A-RonHubbard thanks man. Tbh, I still held on to some amount of cope that the no dlc thing was a lie and we were going to get a secret dlc reveal or at least a free master mode patch at the game awards, but no. Not only that, but in a recent interview they gave with Game Informer they doubled down on not only no dlc, but no plans for a sequel of any kind. So this is truly the end for this era of Zelda. The next game will be something completely different.

[@A-RonHubbard]

@@Hairo-rv9kl Everything has a beginning, and everything has an end... As sad as that makes me for the era of the Wild. As I stood on the Temple of Time stairway yesterday morning wearing the Ancient hero's Aspect after 520 hours of gameplay, listening to the somber music, I had so many mixed emotions. How sad that I may never know this Ancient hero's legacy and history, and how it ties in to the Zonai. Was he even a Zonai, or was he one of the mystery races that seemed to inhabit the depths? Sigh.

[@Hairo-rv9kl]

@A-RonHubbard that's another thing as well. The entire backstory of the Ancient Hero and the fate of the old Hyrule that came before Rauru's kingdom will remain mysteries forever. On a side note, I do actually somewhat wish we get a sequel to AOC but this time featuring the TotK cast and more wacky time travel shenanigans, maybe also taking place back in Rauru's time. Y'know, just a self-indulgent non-canon story with all our favorite characters. Imagine playing as Rauru or even Ganondorf!

[@Kokally]

From what I understand, TOTK was built on a separate physics engine, their proprietary LunchPack engine, rather than BOTW's more well-known and well-used Havok physics engine which wasn't proprietary to Nintendo. What I suspect was that TOTK was used as a demonstration of Nintendo's ability to port from Havok to LunchPack, as well as to demonstrate its capabilities within Nintendo's own hardware. That explains the absolute spit and polish on the game physics and game play; the story was completely secondary to any of that. ( Ultimately, the story *did not actually matter to Nintendo.* ) Nintendo knew the Zelda fans would buy up the game regardless of story, so long as the gameplay was fun they'd buy into it, similarly to how they know Mario games will sell well regardless of story. Regarding the limitations on building, it was likely by design that things fall apart after a few minutes because limitations promote experimentation; and as a result, Nintendo now has an incredible number of real-user examples of just how well the engine works. I'm not entirely saying that the Zelda fandom was completely played by Nintendo, but I do see TOTK as Nintendo capitalizing on opportunity and sticking the Zelda fans with the bill.

[@A-RonHubbard]

Your analysis makes a lot of sense and just blew my mind! This sounds entirely plausible! We may all have been played like a grand piano! 🤯

[@jacksondavis3355]

I think this game was announced too early. The 5 or 6 years of speculation blew this game out of the water from what it was meant to be: a sequel, meaning BOTW but bigger and better. With so little information to go off of for so long, we created this perfect game in our heads that the actual game itself could never live up to. I even remember a few months before launch a theory about link, zelda, and ganondorf trying to work together to break the cycle or something? Sure, we were justified in wanting the best product possible, but our minds couldn't help but wander and that's not entirely our fault since we had so little to chew on for so long.

[@Marikus_Eternal]

Hey! A little late, but a topic I’d like you to talk about in greater detail are the caves. I think they are the greatest addition to the game because they often add the variety in environmental theming that was missing from Shrines. Each of the four main regions has uniquely themed and layed out caves. Hebra has caves with icy rivers and icicles. Eldin has volcanic caves filled with lava which can be traversed by freezing it or crossing it with mine carts. Lanayru offers caves with a rising and lowering water level and underground rivers. And in the desert we find ancient Gerudo ruins like the prison or the structure that’s connected to the underground town. Some of these caves felt to me like tiny mini dungeons with great variety and level design. It’s a pity that they are rarely talked about in the community.

[@emmamiller.]

What frustrates me the most about TotKs story (besides how it was told) is the fact that we have so much unexplained/not talked about information. Like we saw Kotake and Konume, what’s up with them? Or what’s Ganondorfs backstory? Who’s Rauru and Sonia’s child? I liked what we got, I just want more and now that we arnt getting a DLC, this stuff will forever be unexplained.

[@lapniappe]

forget that: WHAT IS UP WITH THE DRAGONS?!?!

[@emmamiller.]

@@lapniappe Fr

[@lapniappe]

@@emmamiller. like honestly. the minute IT happened. i was like okay cool story. so we're going to learn about the dragons. (and then we get the priest outfits. so then i am thinking. OKAY SO WE'RE GOING TO LEARN ABOUT THE DRAGONS, RIGHT?!) and then it's like. nope and I legit. never been so mad and disappointed in this game in my life than I had at that very moment in time.

[@Ppilldd]

You know Tears of the Kingdom is a lot like Mario Galaxy 2. It’s basically just a bigger better version of its predecessor. It’s one of the reasons I love the game so much.

[@Dooddood0]

Honestly it's kinda funny how similar the stories behind these 2 are. Both were games that started out as dlc but became full on games because the devs had so many ideas. Just goes to show how consistent Nintendo's been with the design philosophy for their games over the years.

[@hiharovic7284]

The difference between Mario galaxy 2/spider-man 2 and tears of the kingdom is that those games aren’t exploration heavy. Spider-men exploration is literally going to icons on the map, and finding tech boxes. Tears of the kingdom is very much exploration heavy, but the problem is, outside of the story content, 90% of things you come across are things already in BOTW, and mostly on the same map. You never get rewarded with anything substantial or game changing. It all boils down to shrines, Korok seeds, and consumables.

[@hiharovic7284]

@@DanielMazahreh name one thing you discovered in TOTK that yielded a reward that wasn’t obtainable in BOTW, other than Zonai parts.

[@hiharovic7284]

@@DanielMazahreh You failed. I’ll explain. Everything you named if it wasn’t already in BOTW, makes very little substantial changes to your gameplay. if you want to highlight the new gameplay mechanics, the monster parts and pretty much any of the fusable consumables with elemental properties is a great addition. This is a MECHANICAL change that gives collectibles/consumables more meaning, and this is a godtier improvement, but that’s not what I’m discussing. Monsters parts were still collectibles in BOTW. The magic rod was also available in BOTW, just locked into a specific element. The “new weapons” you speak of function virtually the same as they did BOTW, other than they are rusted and need to be fused. Again, fuse is great, mechanical changes are good, but they’re the same weapons in BOTW with a different coat of paint. Not new. The big goron sword and sea breeze boomerang are DLC weapons from BOTW lol again, nothing new. Poe orbs? Really? A currency found EVERYWHERE in the depths? This is the best you can come up with? This is what gave you a sense of discovery? Like you were on an adventure into the unknown to see what you’d find? Poe orbs? Come on man. The sage orbs make your companions do slightly more damage…that’s it. No substantial changes to gameplay. It’s just fluff. But technically a new item…but I as I said: 90%….that leaves room for 10% of actual “new” things. Incentive to explore this giant open world a SECOND TIME should be more than to just make my inventory of collectible candies bigger. And also I should not be spending 20 minutes of my time doing a maze puzzle so I can get a piece of ganondorf armor that I already got in BOTW. That was just bullshit. Anyway, in summary, Nintendo went balls deep into the sandbox element, but left exploration and discovery in the dust. Hope that makes sense.

[@majora_90]

At least Mario Galaxy 2 only took 2,5 years to make

[@forehead3k]

@Zeldudes, appreciate the nuanced take on TotK, its story, and unique position in the history of the franchise. One thing I would absolutely LOVE to hear about is a take on TotK in the context of Miyamoto's original motivation / "North Star" when developing the original game. The main purpose wasn't the story (there wasn't much), it was just enough context to facilitate the sense of exploration he was trying to share with the players. I forget which video, but at one point there was a video where Nintendo talked about how they were trying to "reset / recapture" that original sense of exploration again with BotW. I suspect that is why the "story" of BotW was what it was -- it wasn't their purpose. There was just enough background to establish a purpose for Link exploring. It's less clear to me how TotK fits in to that mold. Would love to hear your opinions about it.

[@Sephira87]

it is a very fun game but It didn't satisfy my longing for a new magical Zelda adventure because it felt like a big botw dlc. i would have prefered if the whole game where build around the depths.

[@TriangleTrinity]

Just for statistical reference: Days between SS & BotW: 1,932 Days between BotW & TotK: 2,261 That’s a whole 329 days longer wait for TotK. About 10 months. With that in mind, we should have gotten more. I greatly appreciate TotK building upon the foundation that BotW provided. But with the 6+ year wait for TotK, there was opportunity for so much more. Even if you take out the year or so of Covid for development time, 4 or 5 years is more than enough time for the amazing Zelda team to give us more than we received. Just my opinion but I can’t help but be disappointed.

[@AhhhAh-qv6rc]

They didn’t start development until 2019, so thats four years, not six.

[@amandaslough125]

​@@AhhhAh-qv6rc You can't showcase a trailer unless you've already been working on it for a while. They had a smaller team continuing the BotW DLC while most of the rest started pre-production on the next game.

[@pezao143]

Haven't listened to the episode yet, but to me the answer is an absolute YES! This game got me engaged as no other did since OoT and Majora's Mask. I simply didn't want it to end and wanted to do everything in it. Problem is that the hype was so so high that it was never going to live up to everyone's expectations.

[@chooongusbug724]

This, 100 percent this. The things I saw people say about this game before it came out, 20 plus dungeons and stuff like that. TotK had to follow up BotW, it had big shoes to fill... IMO, I prefer TotK even though I love both so much

[@MagiTacti]

Which final boss left a greater impression on you: BotW or TotK. For me personally, i think BotW's final boss is my fav of two cuz of the grand scale and music. I know it was fairly easy, but hearing that Zelda monolog about courage never being forgotten and then hearing the pianist go hard on the piano to this day still gives me goosebumps and chills in a good way. Will never forget how i felt that day

[@hiharovic7284]

Dark Beast Ganon was the most “OH SHIT LETS FUCKING GOOOOO….wait what” moment I’ve ever had in gaming. I found the fight uninspired. Totk VASTLY improved the final boss sequence. While dragon Ganon was pretty basic as well, it’s just felt way more epic, and thematically fit. And you still had that sweet ass boots on the ground fight with ganondorf leading up to it. Zelda coming in as a dragon and helping you was also hype. Dark Beast Ganon would have been WAAAY better if, say, his weak point appeared some where atop his body. In order to reach it, you used Zelda’s light arrow to shoot him on his malice body, and doing so would clear the malice on that spot you hit for a short time…so, you’d have to shoot him with the light arrow multiple times and creat a path of cleared malice, allowing you to CLIMB him, Shadow of Colossus style, and attack the weak spot. Not only would this have been mechanically awesome, it would fit BOTW’s theme of climbing. This and letting him actually run around the field instead of just sitting in one spot, would have been peak.

[@tarnw3301]

ToTK finally boss fight was much better and funnier. But, plot wise, there's something about rescuing the princess from the big evil that killed you before. Simple, but to the point.

[@SevoraLF]

For me personally, not quite, no. Excited to hear you guys discuss this!

[@masteraustin11]

Tears of the Kingdom was a very hype release. I remember when it was first announced I was so hyped, and around a month before its release, that felt like a year for me. Knowing the game was so close but also so far because the days dragged on, but Tears of the Kingdom is an amazing game, and I do feel like it was worth the wait, but also dissapointing in few ways, such as the sky islands and how they ended up in the actual game versus the trailers.

[@Puni_Master]

I love Totk even though I took the time to write up my own version of it! lol In the end, yes, I still think it was worth it but I wish it had done a few things differently.

[@MKnox-ux9sg]

Personally, no. I think if it released two or three years after Botw I'd have a much higher opinion of it but after six years I expected so much more.

[@gungaloscrungalo8925]

Exactly. Given that Breath of the Wild was built from Scratch in 5 years, you'd expect a lot more advancement in 6.

[@APsGTG]

@@gungaloscrungalo8925it’s daylight robbery how they didn’t give us a new map except ctrl c ctrl v the map to the depths and putting roughly 4 pebbles in the sky. They had six years. This is EA levels of rehashing.

[@hiharovic7284]

This should have been an expansion, priced at maybe $40. Cut out all the fluff, keep the new story content and new mechanics, and you would have had an expansion that elevated BOTW to actual GOAT status. But nope, $70 for another 900 korok seeds.

[@wildbard4112]

​@@sulex3491Yeah those people are annoying. They don't know anything about game development, act like they do, and misunderstand the game completely.

[@weizhang9671]

@@hiharovic7284😂If TOTK only worth $40，spider man 2 will only worth $10

[@kuks0453]

Short answer: yes Long answer: absolutely

[@imaheadout2639]

I can’t believe they basically only advertised the sky just for there to be one big island.

[@TheMrPushy]

Honestly, my answer is absolutely not. We waited for so long for what feels to me like a big dlc. I don't want to be a hater but I was honestly so disappointed and I really just hope that the next zelda goes back to what we had before botw... I fear we'll never see more of that zelda again :( I just can't get myself to enjoy botw and totk that much

[@shelbypbj]

The zonai enemies and shrines feel like flipped sheikah assets. Like why would the zonai and sheikah have near identical constructions and machines?

[@Ophmar4]

Not worth the wait for me. Great conversation!

[@gungaloscrungalo8925]

It's an amazing game for sure, but worth that long wait? Not for me. Put it this way: BOTW took 5 years. It was the biggest Zelda, the biggest evolution of the series since 3D, and it's entire engine and massive open world were built from scratch. Tears of the Kingdom was developed over 6 years. It was mostly the same world, doing mostly the same things, with the same structure. Yes, the new mechanics they added are great, and they added to it and changed up a lot in the world... but 6 years worth of changes? A whole BOTW, plus one year's worth of improvement? No way.

[@Spastic110]

@@sulex3491still a 6 year wait

[@MrCleman1]

@@sulex3491 Just because they announced they are working on in in 2019 doesnt mean they really started in 2019. Do you really think they did absolutely nothing from summer 2017 until the beginning of 2019? TotK started as a second DLC for BotW so they started developing it backin 2017 after the Champions Ballad DLC was finished.

[@MrCleman1]

So you want to tell me that you think TotK had nearly no improvements/changes that were worth 6 years of development? That is the biggest bs I have ever read. First of all they built the physics engine from scratch AGAIN as they TotK physics wouldnt have worked with the BotW engine. That alone probably took years let alone optimizing it so it works flawlessly as it does. Aounuma said in an interview that when they pushed it back from 2022 to June 2023 they were done with it and only optimized it so it is stable and flawless. To the next point yes the overworld of Hyrule is the same on the first look but many smaller or bigger details have changed which made exploration again very fun and worthy as well. Just because you know what the spot roughly looks like doesnt mean you actually know what waits for you around the corner. Then they added a complete second layer of the map with the depths as well as a nice addition with the sky islands even though I have to agree with ZeldaMaster here taht they are underdeveloped and there should have been more islands. Also there were two years of COVID which the Zelda team was heavily influenced by and what is out there they couldnt do very much in that timeframe. So summarizing all the content in the game as well other factors like the remade physics engine as well as COVID the 6 years of development are still a good timeframe for the development of such a huge and awesome game which will win multiple awards as well as probably the Game of the Year award in December so I really dont understand how so many people can judge something they dont know anything about or sadly very often didnt really play it that much or not at all. You never can judge a book by its cover.

[@gungaloscrungalo8925]

@@MrCleman1 Bruh I'm not reading that essay. People have different opinions and don't have to be 100% positive on things you like. Deal with it.

[@MrCleman1]

@@gungaloscrungalo8925 Bruh that`s on you if you dont want to read that comment. If you are to lazy to read something why do you even comment yourself. You have to expect comments/backlash if you write something that dumb. But yeah it is your opinion and you are allowed to have that even though it is dumb and uninformed.

[@iluvphillip13]

Gentlemen: I left a note about the music under your pinned comment, but with respect to podcast length I agree with some other commenters about a 60-90 minute length for the pods on average. For gameplay, definitely go longer! I'd love to watch 1.5-2.5 hr episodes of play (with commentary). I'm not in the video editing world so I don't know how much more or less time is involved with that. I think the difference is how much visual engagement is involved with gaming vs talking only -- although your inclusion of little clips relevant to what you're discussing really helps with staying engaged longer with your video podcasts. I love listening to you both, but I'd have trouble listening without also watching, because my mind easily wanders when I'm not more fully engaged, so I end up missing a lot. ETA - Tears of the Kingdom ABSOLUTELY merits a _minimum_ of 2 hours of discussion per topic, every second of which I value. For things like this, perhaps you can separate episodes into roughly 45-60 minute parts, uploading all the parts on the same day for ease of listener breaks. I'm not sure how realistic this is for you. Sorry this comment is so long; I hope it's constructive! I absolutely love your work, both individually and together.

[@Zerolink30]

It feels like people are not seeing the bigger picture of the Aspect of the Hero. To me, it looked like a Zonai that wasn't of pure blood, it was more Barbaric, beastly in nature. If anything, the ancient hero's tribe is probably who the barbarian armor belonged to, note the red hair and war paint on the body. Also this could also be Nintendo's way of saying, "Hey, there might be a Link in the future that won't be Human/Hylian". I for one welcome the idea of the next Link being borne to the Sheika.

[@ShepherdsCreek]

In the very first reveal trailer in 2019, at the very end, zelda's lullaby plays but with a dragon-y twist and I am still astounded they did such a massive spoiler in the very first trailer and absolutely no one figured it out haha

[@ArtemisWasHere]

Technically the 2021 teaser, not the very first look trailer But yes! Imagine if they had revealed the title then and there, we would have pieced it together!

[@ShepherdsCreek]

@ArtemisWasHere no it was definitely at the very end of the 2019 teaser where zelda's lullaby plays on the erhu (like the other dragon themes).

[@JJMomoida]

I don't know if I would term that a spoiler, tbh. It's just one of those things that, in retrospect, makes you go "oh that's neat, they put that there and it makes sense" because, from that trailer alone, I don't think anyone would've straight up put together the connection of Zelda and a certain dragon...

[@swigglyforce5215]

@@ShepherdsCreek No it was not, it was the 2021 teaser

[@ShepherdsCreek]

@@swigglyforce5215 I literally went back and watched the 2019 teaser before I posted this to be sure but ok

[@Puni_Master]

13:20 100% disagree. I think the Sky Islands look super cool and mysterious floating above Hyrule.

[@hiharovic7284]

After all the 10/10s this game received, sooner or later, we’ll look back at it and finally admit that Nintendo chose the path of least resistance when it came to the open world design of TOTK. While the new mechanics are stellar, they really did the bare minimum in terms of exploration and discovery.

[@danyx855]

I'm shocked this is a very prevalent debate right now, I personally love it and it's now my #1 favorite Zelda game and game in general. Curious to see what you guys have to say

[@aiseop]

How many Zelda games have you played

[@natesamadhi33]

well...as i always say, atleast you had fun. me tho, i wish i could get my $70 back.

[@danyx855]

@@aiseop All of the mainline games, OoT was my personal favorite but TotK overtook it

[@SteelxWolf]

There is so much wrong with ToTK that should have been addressed given the criticisms of BoTW. A lot of wasted time in menus, skipping cutscenes in the upgrade/paint/hearts. No excuse for not adding a better quick menu, or a outfit set favorites system. I’ve seen videos showing off much better control schemes to support that, than what we got. BoTW was a masterpiece from a franchise direction standpoint. But ToTK falls short on improving beyond just more resource farming. ToTK isnt bad but it really shows how lax improving on the formula they were. Idc if Covid had anything to do with it. QOL improvements were simple common sense.

[@danyx855]

@@SteelxWolf Oh for sure Totk has a LOT of flaws, especially considering the price point / development time / fans' expectations. But I think the game's highs are very high. At the end of the day it's all very subjective, but I personally fell in love with the overall artistic direction between the beautiful landscapes from the sky, all the ancient architecture of the zonai and the music hits a sweet spot between Botw style and classic epic Zelda motifs. Plus the overall gameplay is nuts and allows for absolute freedom and experimentation (both to its benefit and detrement). I mean I could list a lot more stuff that made me love Totk, as well as a lot of stuff I didn't. It's ok to not like aspects of a game and still love it, I think like Botw, Totk's highs and lows will resonate very differently between fans and what someone considers a weakness others might find it enjoyable and viceversa. I still like to read and understand other people's opinions tho! as long as no one's hostile ofc

[@nickcampbell6387]

As far as the zonai devices go, I think a significant improvement on that system could've been limiting the player to a single "frame" to start, and throughout the game you rarely find more devices to attach to it as you please to make your own creation that progressively gets more refined as you find more devices(in dungeons or hard to reach chests or reward chests)and you could simply make it appear when you needed like the master cycle, and the quick build power would just be a function switch to different builds you created for different circumstances. And rather just spending zonite or dropping the massive supply of parts in your inventory on the ground or using the abundant parts spread all over the place your simply just using the rare parts you found through effort and exploration whenever you need to as much as your battery will let you, it would make the parts feel like a more worthwhile reward, being able to build pretty much whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want because parts everywhere isn't very gratifying, sometimes it just feels tedious.

[@fernando98322]

I think my 200 hours of playtime speak for themselves

[@rebeccahannah117]

I think it was worth the wait, but as much as I love Totk, I will always go back and play botw. ❤

[@KlNGLEGO]

I think the sky islands should have been more separate from the ground. In SS I feel like I’m in the sky but in TOTK the ground is visible from the sky and vice versa. I never feel like I’m in the sky I feel like I’m just above the ground.

[@NicTube]

Absolutely agreed! The vibe is just.. gone. And I think it even looks better in the 2021 trailer.

[@crunchysalmons]

mini dungeons scattered throughout the world, you can find them on your own or vaguely hinted at by maybe 1 or 2 npcs. they’re themed ruins or caves tucked away in secret corners of the world and there’s no loading screen to entering them. they have enemies and puzzles and small keys and maybe a midboss. the reward is something UNIQUE and not an opal or a spirit orb, i’m talking a bottle, a heart or stamina piece, or a shield or sword. the new zelda game should include like 10 ish discoverable swords that go in an imporium and can be switched out, you can carry any two at a time. this also goes for shields and tunics

[@jcg7609]

I personally don't know. I played 95 hours of the game, but I played 700 hours of Botw, so maybe I was a little worn out of this version of Hyrule. Something that was a disappointment was the story. It's just not good it's not awful, but it just felt like a nothing story. THEY NEED TO STOP WITH TELLING STORY THROUGH MEMORIES. Gameplay wise, it's botw with a lot of new stuff, so there for I liked it. I also really like the depths, but there is a bit of a pain to explore, and the main land of Hyrule is different but not different enough, and the sky islands were just disappointing. Maybe I just need to replay it, but as of right now, I prefer Botw even though I know totk is the better game. Edit: Except for the dungeons I vastly prefer totk dungeons compared to Botw

[@SarahConnor618]

It was basically the same game. Nothing like majora's mask genius...

[@athorem]

I wasn't thinking that much about the BotW follow up for these past 6 years. But even so, it definitely doesn't feel like six years of advancements to BotW were made in TotK when it came out

[@R3CL41M3R]

This episode basically captures how I’ve thought about TOTK for the past few months. For better or worse, TOTK is BOTW but better. Unfortunately, the story suffers significantly because of how it’s implemented like botw.

[@Dooddood0]

Another problem is that so much of the story happened 10s of thousands of years in the past. In a linear game this wouldn't be too much of an issue but for something like open air zelda, it makes telling an interesting story 100 times harder. By having at most only 10-20 percent of the story and inciting events happen in the past and the vast majority in the present, it'll make telling a story at all WAY easier.

[@wildbard4112]

​@@Dooddood0Memories give the player agency over the story. There are some people who just don't give a fuck about story so the memories just allow them to skip it

[@amandaslough125]

​@@wildbard4112Agency over the story would be your actions actually effecting the story. (Like getting the Master Sword before finishing the temples and NPC conversations reflecting that). Not you having the option to skip content.

[@wildbard4112]

@@amandaslough125 Ok

[@alexanderellinburg7860]

I don't see them returning to this hyrule for the next game, I do hope they continue off this new timeline and keep things streamlined for a little bit before making botw and totk events myth and legends.

[@FierceDeity35]

Agreed, there's alot of lose ends they could/should wrap up. Even if they don't continue with this map or characters or physics, I still like the art direction.

[@enzoeclipsed]

Aonuma trolled us when he said it would be “darker” than Majora’s Mask. He technically was right since the depths were literally blacked out but of course he knew that’s not the darkness we were looking for

[@Nebyulosity]

Yeah no kidding. That was just cruel to those of us who actually wanted darker themes. They tried to make it dark by killing Sonia and trapping Zelda as a dragon I guess, but it's really hard to take that stuff seriously when you're expected to spend the rest of the game super gluing cartoon-y, ACME-esq devices together to create nonsense machines/weapons to overpower everything. There's just no real sense of stakes at all when Link is basically a toon-force god.

[@jackiemay147]

Yea like what’s up with straight up lying to the audience lol. How can we believe anything they say about new games when they do stuff like that?

[@TheBreadPirate]

Short answer = Yes Long Answer = Eh. . . I think so?

[@thomasbruce4990]

The heroes aspect was awesome. It's the only reason I finished the shrines. I thought it looked cool as heck

[@major-minor]

Definitely worth the wait. The story was amazing, and you can really notice the time they took adding every little detail.

[@gungaloscrungalo8925]

Story was amazing? Did we play the same game?

[@major-minor]

@@gungaloscrungalo8925 I've played every Zelda game and can say with certainty that TotK has the second best story in the series.

[@lolitsleo]

@@major-minorThe story for Tears of the Kingdom was an embarrassment. The major chunks of the story takes place in the distant past where you feel completely disconnected from it, Ganondorf was underutilized and had zero personality or explained motivations, and every present problem in the 4 regions had the same exact copy and pasted script. The 4 regions story also treats you like an idiot. Even if you didn’t watch the god awful memories to figure out that Ganondorf made a Puppet Zelda, you can easily figure out that Zelda is a puppet from completing one dungeon. After you figure it out and go to other regions, the game treats the player like an idiot and expects us to believe that the real Zelda is still being spotted in every region. Not only do we get treated like an idiot when it comes to puppet Zelda, the games also gives us the exact same cutscene with the exact same script after every dungeon. There’s zero story progression in the present. Tears of the Kingdom’s story is possibly one of the worst in all of Triple A gaming.

[@GameTimeNLL]

​@@lolitsleoone of the worst of triple a gaming? My guy 😐

[@lolitsleo]

@@GameTimeNLL It really is. I can’t even think of any worse stories off the top of my head. I’ve never played through a story with as many plot holes and inconsistencies as Tears of the Kingdom’s. I don’t say this lightly either, Zelda is my favorite franchise. I grew up with Zelda and I love the series, but this story was a monumental disappointment. I will not forgive Tears of the Kingdom for treating the players like they have only a single brain cell when it comes to the story.

[@daniellind8321]

One point that I was a bit let down on was that all throughout the game I kept feeling like Purah was destined to be the fifth sage, especially with the shape of Mineru's mask. Finding out it was going to be Mineru's spirit was almost disappointing in a way, since it felt like all my expectations and perceived buildup had been conpletely subverted.

[@mljh11]

Do you mean that Mineru's mask is shaped like Purah's glasses? Hmm, interesting.

[@daniellind8321]

@@mljh11 yeah. I know they aren't the exact same, but especially the fact that they are both focused on research and inventing, I thought that Purah was going to somehow acquire Mineru's mask an have some sort of zonai device related power up for link. Instead we got Mecharu.

[@blazingspeeds8330]

I think the real problem for me is that it was burdened by the formula. Don’t get me wrong, It’s a great game and it did make parts of BOTW way better. But that’s kinda all it did. They didn’t try and unify the old with the new like they should’ve done, they just doubled down on the new. TOTK had the pillars in place to be the best Zelda game ever, but they simply just played it safe. I hope the next game addresses a lot of the issues we had with both games.

[@Aktedya1-jt7vw]

Thing is, the game was specifically advertised as "the sequel to Breath Of The Wild", so it makes sense that they'd make a game that's...more Breath Of The Wild.

[@blazingspeeds8330]

@@Aktedya1-jt7vw Given the 6 year gap between both games, I just expected a bit more. Like more traditional dungeons that of older games or a more grander linear story that unfolds as you complete most of the game. I don’t think it being a sequel to BOTW meant it was necessary doomed to fail, they should’ve just done more with it

[@heronymo]

Great discussion! I really wish they could've connected some of the lore to previous games a bit better (like Ganondorf being the same from OOT or TP). On the other hand, I don't mind if they do a new continuity starting with BOTW, but at least keep things consistent into TOTK and offer clear explanations for certain things (like the shrines/other tech disappearing). I feel that Zelda has the potential to have very epic, fantastic stories told - like the feeling we got from the initial TOTK trailer. It would elevate the series even more if they had well thought-out, deep lore building. Again, even if they start anew with BOTW. Speaking of which, if they do start a new continuity, I'd rather not have references to the past games in that case. Just start new! One of the bothersome things I experienced a lot in BOTW and even more in TOTK is the ambiguity. It made more sense in BOTW, but I don't like "figuring out" the story on my own. I play FOR the story. I want to watch it evolve and develop. I want to be surprised. Some mystery is totally fine. But, for example, Ganondorf could have had more explanation and motivation for taking over the kingdom. I think the classic "he wants the triforce" could've worked here too. And I definitely want the story to take place in the present as well for the next game. What would you guys like to see in terms of the next game? I would like to keep the open world, but have certain things be limited until you get a key item. Like certain areas are just inaccessible until you get whatever item you need to get in (hookshot, anyone? lol). And, I definitely want a deeper story. I think the series is ready for that.

[@yusufied.]

I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the sage abilities. I was originally very sour on them aside from Tulin. However I feel like they have grown on me a little bit. Obviously Yunobo's is great for breaking rocks and exploring caves. But I also think Riju offered a great way to break rocks while waiting for Yunobo's ability to recharge and it was pretty decent way to fish. Sidon's ability grew on me the most. If you activate his ability in any warm weather environment you get to stay cool for 2 minutes. And if you have any Zora weapons you get an instant 2x damage boost as well. I did still deactivate them more often than I did the champions in BOTW though. And for me Mineru's construct was only good for walking over gloom in the depths and combat.

[@JJMomoida]

Personally, no. Long post ahead. Sorry. But then again, Zelda is my favorite Nintendo franchise and I don't exactly wait for those game with bated breath (last time this happened was with Twilight Princess). I was not a big fan of Breath of the Wild to begin with. I still enjoyed playing through it, but didn't feel like Zelda to me. Felt like an open world with a smearing of Zelda layered on top of it. The dungeons were extremely weak, as were the bosses and main antagonist... I liked how they characterized Zelda in it (though the VA left much to be desired), but I didn't jive with the fact that the story was mostly told through memories. It really did feel like all the interesting stuff had happened and you were just waking up to deal the final blow on Ganon... which I suppose CAN happen just like that depending on how you approach the game. I did like the exploration and traversal, but to be honest, I was (and to a certain extent still am) burnt out on open world games. Where others saw an expansive world full of locales to explore, I simply saw a vast map, empty save for the shrines that dotted its horizons. The shrines were a neat little distraction. Never really thought much of physics puzzles. They were neat, but that was kinda it. Neat little time-wasters. Tears of the Kingdom, being a sequel set in the same world, just felt a little too familiar... and I think that ultimately this is why I say the wait wasn't "worth it." Say what you will about the Zelda formula before BOTW, but each Zelda game has had a distinct feel to it that sets it apart, aesthetically, musically, thematically... etc. BOTW, too, felt like it had its own identity, even if -at least to me- its identity felt not very Zelda-like. Plainly put, TOTK felt like BOTW +1. It, of course, had its unique gimmick with ultra hand, the sky, the depths, etc... but I could never shake the feeling that this was just... BOTW... again. I ain't here to argue that "HAHA TOTK IS JUST BOTW DLC!" or anything like that, but nevertheless the game just felt like it lacked an identity of its own. Stuff like this has me pondering on the idea of whether or not Zelda games should have "sequels", and by that I mean direct sequels as TOTK is to BOTW... Because while those two felt extremely similar, we have... Majora's Mask, which managed to evoke a completely different tone and feeling than Ocarina of Time, despite using, for the most part, the same assets. Of course, Majora's Mask was in itself something of a freak accident. Don't know if Nintendo will ever do that again, but I am nonetheless *very* curious as to where the series will go.

[@A-RonHubbard]

I can certainly understand and respect your points. Open world games aren't for everyone. I do feel the TotK could have been so much more, yet I find myself inexplicably drawn to it. I just got the Ancient hero's Aspect after more than 515 hours of gameplay and still have not gotten all the light roots, caves, wells, Koroks, etc. After I 100% TotK I may return to BotW and complete one of my master mode files. I do think TotK had some big shoes to fill and that fan expectations were a bit unchecked. Another commentor said that Nintendo was more concerned with showing off their new physics engine (LunchPack) than making a game with good lore, content, story and that they knew it would sell well if the game play was fun because it's Zelda. I think there's some truth to that.

[@Luke_totally_luke]

I really think one of the things i dislike most about TOTK is how Hyped the Ganondorf reveal was. And then he just kinda.. wasn't in the game. Even in the memories, he had no motivation for doing what he was doing. Like c'mon this is the first time we are seeing the big bad in 17 years and he's just down in a hole for the entire game.

[@samgrainger1554]

Such a big disapointment for me. I was hoping they'd pull a majoras mask. Looked like it from the dark trailer. I wanted them to put a zelda game in botw's world/engine. Instead it was pretty much the same game and it was massive like endless scrolling on tiktok was massive but doenst build at all till you realise youve wasted your time. Old zelda was little like a grand movie trilogy.

[@javierramos6729]

I find it very interesting, I've been perceiving a good amount of backlash this game has received from many ZeldaTubers! I think I kind of understand it, but I want to 'recall' to one different take to this tearsofthekingdom situation: "Expectations can become your greatest ennemy". The Zelda World has been expanding so much, every game keeps adding to the previous one with it's mysteries, stories, landmarks. That in some way it led to this huge community that has so much fun theorizing about every little bit.. Tearsnof the Kingdom became the peak, we were all crazy about it, desperate, anxious even that it would eventually come out and meet all our expectations, it would answer to our theories, to our sketch of "the perfect Zelda Game".. and then it came out and it was something else entirely!! It led to this backlash the game is receiving. I'll go ahead and say this game is FANTASTIC, They really put an effort in creating the best experience they could with the same Hyrule concept as BOTW. The mere fact that the final Ganondorf fight did what it did, becoming what could be my favorite finale of all time. Playing with your expectations when zelda appeared at tje end falling down and you realize you have to save her.. heck how even the game test it's limits in the amount of creative ways you can solve stuff. People take all this for granted.. we as a community just want.. another Classic Zelda Game that doesn't explore new boundaries but gives us a better story. I feel sorry for the devs.. they mah have spent countles hours to try to make you have fun and satisfaction playing it and everyone want the closest thing to the formula again!! Just like we want I don't know.. the next Metallica Album to sound as Metallica as possible.. and don't let the guys explore more things, get outside their box. Well this is is all, I wanted to rant for a bit, but I'm eager to see what will happen for the future of zelda and this beautiful community ❤

[@buildings_and_food]

I agree. I'm normally a contrarian and very hard on media, but I don't buy this "I wish the game forced me to be creative" criticism I keep seeing for this game. Its engine gives you full agency to engage anything in a million different ways - *just because you can*. The just-because-you-can philosophy in totk massively outshines the because-you-have-to stockholm syndrome a lot of gamers have internalized. Once I figured out a few of the games "hacks," I happily opted not to use them - for example,, trying to figure out the "intended" solutions of the shrines. yet I still felt very chad knowing I had OP options in my pocket if I got really frustrated... totk almost feels like a game engine or map editor more than a traditional game, due to its design policies. just a shame a lot of xcore zelda fans don't agree with the devs explicit realization that it feels good to get away with cheat : j

[@pockyboxes5902]

I don't think we were entirely wrong for thinking the game would be more focused on story elements--just look at the final trailer. There's barely any focus on the new gameplay and certainly no shots of the Depths, but there is a whole lot of leaning on the bombastic cutscenes to get you excited for the context they take place in. And the context is that they aren't happening in real time, they're just more memories of events and characters we don't get to experience ourselves.

[@Dd-fb2tj]

This is a fair summary:.....they prioritized gameplay innovation over narrative -just too much

[@masterflanagan6127]

Happy thanksgiving everyone

[@SevoraLF]

You too

[@ashalaya]

So many points I completely agree with y’all on!! the courage sky island- i also got to that one first and I was also expecting there to be a power and wisdom island 😭 I thought the diving challenges were fun tho but yeah definitely was expecting a lil triforce reference there

[@dummyyogurt5375]

totk should've remained as dlc

[@Simonpumpernickel]

It still is they just labeled it as a new game 😢😢

[@ShepherdsCreek]

I remember when the first trailer came out and I screamed so loud my poor cat (who had been sleeping on me) nearly hit the roof. The hype was unreal for the weeks after but the game just never quite lived up to that initial hype. There are a lot of great things about totk and it is a good game but I'm not really sold on the idea of it being a good zelda game.

[@Lexi-M]

It could be argued that TotK has one of the best beginnings to a video game ever. The very beginning of the game was SICK. I had chills. The game is going through a dip right now. People have such a high bar for zelda that they lose perspective & forget how amazing the games are. over time i think it will appreciated as one of the greats.

[@GameTimeNLL]

​@@sulex3491same was with botw, ss, tp, ww, mm. Probably only one where this wasnt the case was maybe oot. Its unfortunate, feels a bit unthankful. But eh 🤷‍♂️ i absolutely adored my time with totk.

[@Delulula]

@@sulex3491 pretty much. I wasn’t born at the time but I’ve seen several people say that MM and WW went through basically the exact same thing tears is going through. It sucks.

[@senordivinebeast646]

It was definitely worth the wait for me. Loved it a ton. I do hope the next game changes things up a bit and hopefully doesn’t take as long lol.

[@Ppilldd]

As long as we don’t have another pandemic we’ll have probably be fine.

[@RabidNemo]

56:54. I was listening to this while playing tears of the Kingdom so I don't know exactly when it popped up but I absolutely love that graphic!

[@mikejaks4518]

I think one thing that could’ve fixed the “link knows what happened to Zelda but doesn’t tell anyone” problem is make it so the dragons tears don’t appear until after the event at hyrule castle with puppet Zelda so then the player thinks this may be the final boss (tricking botw players) and they think they are saving Zelda and then it gets revealed she’s a puppet. Cuz after the hyrule castle incident the characters talk about how Zelda was fake and whatnot, so making it where the memories appear after this event would make it seem like link isn’t withholding any info.

[@rossb812]

I've been listening to this on drives, bit by bit, and as you raise these points I got to thinking: why couldn't Nintendo structure the story beats the same way Spider-Man does? Open world but the main missions string you along chronologically... Granted it restricts a little bit of the openness but the story would have benefitted greatly from better implementation.

[@betterlatethannever4529]

Imagine if the memories were actually time shift stones, placed around the map. But the catch is that the areas of effect reaches only far enough over a window or doorway that link can only watched the cutscenes?

[@BrunoLiraArraisMaia]

I still can't find this podcast on Spotify (it says it's not available for some reason). Regarding the episode subject: Yes, it's still better than 99% of the stuff released out there.

[@HyruleHero15]

It was on spotify once and it worked brilliantly but now I have the same issue: the pidcast isn't available anymore :( I hope it'll return to spotify, 'cause I would love to listen to the podcast during my many train rides!

[@gracefulannie-grcflannie-]

I don't so much have a problem with the dragon's tears in TotK, but, like ZM said, the order in which we see them should be locked. After I knew we were seeing a false Zelda, I kept wanting Link to tell people. Maybe it was easier to program the other characters' reactions the way they did it? Overall, I love TotK. It was my GOTY and, at the moment, it's my favorite game. I learned to temper my expectations for things at a young age. ET was built up to be such a great movie, 10 year old me expected it to be the best movie I'd ever seen. When we got a VCR and a copy of ET as a family Christmas present, I was so excited. Then I was so disappointed I didn't even like the movie.

[@c9ja456]

Really enjoying this podcast/ episodes. Content is great… followed you both for what feels ages now so amazing collab! Well done guys keep it up!

[@Ray-dl5mp]

I love the image you used during the video which I guess it kinda a video. Just very cool setting of course and simplicity to it works really well with the game and the discussion. I love you guys discussing this game! I just wish we got huge Zelda releases each year so you guys could always have something new to talk about because this is so good.

[@Echohoody]

1:05:37 that’s true, we don’t see Zonai civilization in its prime, we only catch the tail-end of them which is just Rarau and Mineru which shows them on land but the song of the Stormwind Ark talks about a time the Zonai was up in the sky, yet Rauru was surprised the islands were risen to the sky at the intro of the game. Why do they seem to flip-flop with the Zonai being a civilization from the sky vs when they were just on the surface.

[@TheOneWhoSouls1405]

Because he died before they were risen up into the sky, and the last time he knew they were in land.

[@bradhedgehog12]

I think it was worth the wait. And whoa! You boys are cool

[@gregpl9363]

anyone feel me on this? ;they search for the geo glyphs shouldve been more so tied to the forgotten temple and its secret space behind the goddess statue ( which, F me, I predicted would be there :P ). but in the following way. the area with the map and glyphs, should've had a stone wheel, which if you would turn it in a direction, it would activate a light beam into the sky, which would reflect on something in the sky and bounce back on an area in hyrule, which would finally light up the image surrounding the tear pool. this way its kind of more obscure and forces you to go to the temple to advance to a next memory/image. ( or even use the giant Death Star orbs in the sky, where you move them to a coordinate from the temple or something and it lights up the ground image/ glyph) also, Nintendo heard us theorising a lot about the zonai and thought : "ahh the zonai mystery appears to be the main thing in the community........ LETS MAKE EVERYTHING ABOUT THE ZONAI!! THEY'LL DEF ENJOY THAT!!" totally feels like they did that bc of what they saw content creators and commenters theorising about

[@iluvphillip13]

I wonder if the success or failure of new characters and/or new story lore will determine future Zelda games? Maybe there will be a complete Zonai world spinoff, or a new overlapping Zelda-adjacent map that explores other races/species domains that may include related tribes such as the domain where Yona is from, or a bokoblin village with families of bokoblins living their own daily lives, or other areas exploring more histories & development of some of the specific NPC groups?

[@samuelstone3173]

Personally this game was so worth the wait for me! Loved almost everything about it. Just better botw in my opinion which was already one of my favorite games of all time

[@khianakalypso4743]

Personally I play Zelda because of the bit of story it has. If I wanted to play a Nintendo game with little to no story, i'd play Mario or a party game. As I get older I find I prefer story more, which is unfortunately starting to push me away from Zelda I think after this game. The ending felt.. unfinished. Animation was nice though, i'll give them that.

[@majora_90]

6 years is too much time for what we got.

[@rbpfarr]

It's so hard to choose what to comment on because you guys covered so much but I think the vehicle crafting system was a huge pet peeve of mine for a few reasons. Obviously people have created absolutely massive machines for traversal and monster removal but once I made the hover bike everything else was obsolete, most importantly my horse. Actually riding my horse was made so ineffective in this Hyrule that I could only ride it as a novelty not for effective travel and I really didn't like that at all. Great video, can't wait for the next podcast.

[@painuchiha2694]

Yes and no Some aspects underdelivered but it’s easy for players to ignore the good stuff. I think it suffered the same hate cycle once again similar to the fate of skyward sword and wind waker

[@BruceBoyde]

I basically agree with everything here. At the end of the day, the game was really fun but felt SO anemic as a Zelda game. The whole memory thing killed me. It's like they couldn't be bold enough to be different from BoTW and wanted to repeat the memory thing but totally missed the mark. It didn't matter what order you got the BoTW ones in and it was a fairly minor thing. The ToTK ones were a fucking mess and I wound up with the dagger one second and the draconification one like fourth. Edit: The whole Rauru "it was on the ground" might have just been stating a fact. Like, he knew it had been risen but was just commenting that it wasn't always airborne.

[@mrwho995]

For me, no, it didn't even come close to being worth the very long wait. The longest wait ever for a new Zelda game resulted in the most stale and recycled Zelda game ever. So incredibly disappointing, and depressing knowing it's probably going to be another 6 year wait, 12 years total, for a truly new experience.

[@MigueUgartechea]

I think Nintendo saw the success of BotW and thought there was nothing wrong with its structure, not one single mistake, and they doubled down on everything. More shrines, more koroks, similar dungeons, more land to explore, so BotW highs are higher in TotK, but BotW lows are lower and more painful and frustrating in TotK

[@KlNGLEGO]

Yes it was worth the wait for the initial playthrough but its replay value gets tired kind of quickly. With BOTW I would beat it and complete it over and over again.

[@SaitoEx1]

Imo no. With what we were given, I feel like the game didn't change as much as it should. It was fun but it shouldn't have been a sequel to BOTW. It pretty much had nothing to do with it. If it was a different Hyrule, i think the game would've been received differently.

[@mkjjoe]

Many things to pick apart but my main gripes were the undercooked world-building and story delivery. To add to your point about non-linear memories: I found Mineru after only two temples, with around half memories left to watch including Sonia's murder. Even if the story is somewhat predictable, it effectively spoiled Sonia's death, the epic conclusion to Rauru's life, and Zelda's plan to restore the sword. It also kinda degraded the rest of the main quest while Link kept gaslighting everyone. I've seen people justify that Link doesn't want to burden people which makes absolutely no sense, especially as everything is shared as soon as it's convenient. I've seen people justify that it's how it has to be for an open world, which false since open worlds have managed more linearity (you still freely explore but with more conditions). TOTK simply relies too much on a structure that was meant for BOTW. I've also had people blame me and others for going out of order, but even as I've carefully followed the memories' order it was really easy to reach Thunderhead Isles, with some Zonai devices and energy, clueless in a game that encourages us to go anywhere and even in obscurity, which made the thunder cloud seem like a cool challenge (which btw was teased in the official trailer #1). It was worth waiting for what works (mainly the mechanical side which had to _Just Work),_ and we're justified to wonder how the worst parts ended up this way. I hope it was a matter of focus and that they've kept a lot out of this project that could make it in a next one "soon enough". They probably focus seriously on one big game at a time, but I would find it odd if they had the scope concluded a year before release but hadn't started to think about the next one at least on paper.

[@FierceDeity35]

Not to "blame others" but I think rushing development would have created more backlash. And its hard to judge what during development took the longest to develop, perhaps it was the parts we really enjoyed that took the longest.

[@amandaslough125]

​@@FierceDeity35assets, engine, and mechanics take the longest. Most companies force the writing department to overhaul what they're doing all the time because it's always the least valued, and the easiest to redo quickly. The writing should've been the easiest to polish, even during covid. Especially since barely any of the game is actually voice acted. There's no reason for it to be so haphazardly done, even while being a lesser priority.

[@maccajunior]

Biggest complaints i hear is that people overhyped themselves and it didnt live up to their expectations. The game is far from perfect but i dont want to see a notification about another rant video about how it ruined theory channels loves for the Zelda games (looking at u bandit)

[@YamuThatcher]

💯

[@soapy247]

Totally agree

[@ultimatedumbass4640]

@@DanielMazahreh Played the game, finished it, definitely not a masterpiece if I'm being completely honest.

[@Mattjazz47]

@@ultimatedumbass4640 Totk should fall under what to never do for direct sequels. Imagine Nihon Falcom thought we need Trails to Azure to sell better to audiences so they decided to have all NPCs not remember SSS at all from Trails from Zero even though they became a famous police force in Crossbell and on top of that erase all traces of the previous plot. You see the complete stupidity of that thought process.

[@Breeze926]

I find it interesting that you two and I have pretty much the same complaints of Tears of the Kingdom; however, you both find it a great game besides its flaws while for me those were enough to have a negative opinion of the game. I think that what's interesting about a game so massive that has a lot to talk about, a two hour discussion still doesn't get the whole experience across. This game really is one-of-a-kind.

[@dmajorvgm8735]

Personally, while I did enjoy the game, particularly early on, I was incredibly disappointed overall. I was always worried about them reusing the map and in the end my worries came true. There were hardly any significant differences, and the Sky Islands/depths are simply not enough new content for a brand new Zelda game, really the only thing that felt like quality new content in either were the Yiga boss fights. The other huge thing for me that fell completely flat was the dungeons. After seeing that last trailer I really thought they were going to do something special with the dungeons. I was honestly completely baffled after finishing the wind temple, which honestly just felt like a divine beast with a better aesthetic and music but worse puzzles. I really wish they would leave the idea of non-linearity behind for the dungeons and just make a fantastic linear dungeon, the whole rest of the game is non-linear so why do the dungeons have to be too? It completely ruins any sort of clever puzzle progression. I did enjoy the ultra hand stuff, but less for it allowing me to be creative and make wacky things (not really why I play a Zelda game), more for when they built clever puzzles around it. Unfortunately this was very rare, and often when it did happen they would literally leave a pre-built or half built device that solves the puzzle for you right there. The novelty wore out pretty quickly even if it was impressive tech, it wasn’t enough to carry an entire Zelda game for me unfortunately. Finally, I think the story is bad. They seem to have re-written the world building from scratch, which I don’t really mind necessarily, but only if it’s actually good. Nothing is fleshed out or interesting, the Zonai, the “secret” stones, Gannondorf’s history as a character, it’s all very shallow and nowhere near as interesting as the world building in previous games involving the tri-force, sages, goddess Hylia etc. Not a huge issue but I do think the story is very shallow and uninteresting personally. Overall a fun game and very impressive technically, but I really wish they’d made something brand new instead, and went back to linear dungeons

[@DooodOfLife]

I can see how some people might have been... slightly disappointed with TotK, based on what we saw from the trailers. It looked like we were gonna get a game that was a middle ground of my (pre- TOTK) top 3: MM, OoT, and BotW. But it was like 90% BotW, 8% OoT, 2% MM. BUT because I love BotW so much, I was still very happy with what we got. The game isn't without its flaws, but it felt like a cool revamp of 2017. Ultrahand, Fuse, and Recall, with the Zonai devices, made the experience feel fresh. The sky islands were beautiful, the depths were eerie and tougher, and Hyrule itself felt boty fresh and nostalgic, with familiar locations, weird fleshed out side characters, and new caves and tunnel systems to play around in.

[@jonathangraham1865]

I would like to hear someone discussing master mode. The game is clearly designed to have this added later.

[@chrisspreezy6957]

Great podcast! can you talk about what you guys want in the next Zelda game?

[@mljh11]

I beg to differ on the Fire Temple. Keeping in mind that the structure was supposed to be some sort of mining facility / storage depot, playing it "correctly" reveals how the layout just doesn't make sense in the context of the world. If you tried to rely on the minecart tracks to get around (since they were ostensibly built for transportation) you soon realized that they don't actually get you everywhere you need to go, and there are unreachable sections that had no easy access for the Gorons who supposedly used the place long ago. I rank it the worst temple because of how un-cohesive and disjointed it felt.

[@TheRepty818]

I like that the series changes and is willing to break its own rules. The fact is, this franchise has nearly four decades with of cannon. It's incredibly easy for these games to become bogged down with minutia with a story that long. Hell, the creator of FNAF said he was frustrated with his own lore after 4 games, and that's a one-man writing team. I hope they keep taking big swings. My biggest issue with Skyward Sword is that it's way too safe, not really trying much new that Twilight Princess hadn't already done.

[@Yojimbo8]

I love TotK. It’s in my Top 3 with LttP and Twilight Princess.