We Could Be REWRITING Billy the Kid's HISTORY!!!!

(UPDATED WITH MISSING IMAGES!)
Michael introduces a 3rd photo, "Poker Billy" into the examination of James Tomlinson's Montano Billy photo. Do all 3 photos match up? Are we on the verge of a huge breakthrough in the history of William H. Bonney? Watch and find out!
#billythekid #brushybillroberts #fortsumner #johnmiller #lincolncountywar #patgarrett #pals #pokerbilly #photos #facialanalysis #regulators

[@winkie51]

Funny, my thoughts were exactly like yours when we drove to Rodeo to see the BTK play. I said to my husband, how in the world did Billy survive out here? No water, pitch black at night. I almost cried thinking of him all alone out there at 15,16 ?

[@WHEELSBRANUM]

In our time we are used to street lights and other guides to see with in the desert, without trees or anything blocking the sky. The Moon is very bright. Of coarse it's not as bright as the sun, if a persona if a person was familiar t with the area, then the moon could provide enough light for a person to get around. The desert is blazing hot in summer and cold 🥶 at night. It makes more sense to travel at night, I lived in the Mojave, desert for 24 years in the desert without ANY form of modern illumination, it's easy to see a well traveled dirt road. Keep in mind a person still has to be careful. The lack of modern light doesn't mean that they could ride around like a mad man with no care. It's still dangerous. Most people die from lack of water. Horses too. area

[@ronaldolweiler7745]

The sad thing is that no one took pictures and put names on them or passed them to family members. You would think there would be wanted posters or something to verify his appearance

[@stevemccarty6384]

I have a few period tintypes of LCW characters that have their names written on the reverse. They are: John Jones and Steve (I think) Smith.

[@TheCook2111]

I think poker billy is Billy. Put it compared with the original tintype photo there's no doubt in my mind. Very similar facial structure

[@billofrightsamend4]

Same hat also, the hat is even sitting the same place on his head. They could be different shades because of the development of the photo. It's the same guy, but is the tintype really Billy?

[@shwngbr]

@@billofrightsamend4 The hats are 2 different colors in the photos, how are they the same?

[@chinchilla2971]

Poker Billy looks the most like the tin type.

[@wesleycook7687]

Why is there a picture of Brushy Bill Roberts when he was young? He's not Billy The Kid. DNA from his teeth compared to Billy's family proved that in the 90s.

[@iracordem]

@@wesleycook7687 lol no it didnt

[@jmiller1977]

What the hell ? Talk with your hands if u want they are ur hands right?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Don’t think I can stop even if I wanted to. :-)

[@donnakiersey5]

@allthingsbillythekid I to be with you on the ears identification being a great way to go. That being said, looking at all three pictures here, none would qualify as being Billy from what I can tell. Also, the lips! But still is interesting that the photographer wrote Billy the Kid on the back of the one photo. I will say that one is the only one you really can’t tell much about the ears. So maybe?🤷‍♀️. Just discovered your channel. Love it! I’ve been interested in “all things Billy the Kid” since I was 12 years old and just last year, I finally got to go to Lincoln and Fort Sumner at 45 years old. I’d go back every year if my family would let me. 😂

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

That's awesome and welcome! Yeah, I think we're either onto a different "Billy" here.....or this is the real Kid and the tintype is of someone else. Just very difficult to tell with no provenance and poor image quality. I'm not giving up!!

[@mrliberty8468]

The poker guy is very close. The top hat Billy liked and the hair looks like him he is also dressed appropriately.

[@stevemccarty6384]

The trouble is the top hat fellow is not Billy, but Tom. Billy is the smaller fellow in the left foreground. The other two are are Dick Brewer and in the right forground Frank MacNab. It is therefore a very interesting photo and absolutely authentic!

[@ReservoirPunk]

What makes you think that bud? I've never heard that before @@stevemccarty6384

[@Montgomeryyy]

Too bad smiling in photographs wasn't generally a thing back then. I need to see those chompers.

[@stevemccarty6384]

Smiling was difficult to do. Post took around 8 seconds and it was difficult to hold a smile for that long. I have a pic of John Chisum smiling broadly.

[@stevemccarty6384]

If he had a moment to think about it, Billy would close his lips over his buck teeth. In the famous photo he had forgotten that he was posing and let his mouth fall open allowing us to see his front teeth. In my two pictures of him he has obviousy closed his lips over his teeth. He must have been embarrassed about the deformity.

[@xrpeople]

Does billy have a cleft chin ? Fiddle billy looks like he has a cleft

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Billy does not, at least according to the authenticated tintype. Brushy has a cleft chin and it may very well be him in the fiddle pic with John Ables?

[@sylviatrejo9886]

Thank you for Cahill's headstone. That was very nice of you.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Thank you! It was my pleasure....and a nice little adventure.

[@judyholiday1794]

I have followed BTK off and on for over 10 years and I have seen all of these pictures 10 yrs ago..I also commented that the Monteno pic was discovered by a guy that was in the same BTK Facebook group back in the day..He presented to the group and we decided that it wasn't Billy but some random cowboy posing for a picture..I keep waiting for the one picture that I have always felt coould be Billy to pop up..I actually chatted with a family member and at the time the picture had appeared on a NM news channel sharing how a local family believed to have a authentic Billy tinttype who was posing with a family descendent.. Apparently Billy was good friends with the man in the pic and that his family would hide Billy on their property from his enemies..😮..Sorry for any typos it is late and I need to get off of KZbin so I will be able to get to work on time..Keep up sharing I have been enjoying the BTK storyline again through your content..

[@johnnymarzetti9130]

If I’m not mistaken, in the previous video I think it was mentioned that the fiddle photo was thought to have been taken in/around 1880. With that said, why would Billy be hanging out with Jesse Evans at that point in time? That would make no sense and gives me great pause.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Agreed....by that point they were on the outs over that Huston Chapman thing....

[@TheJlmills]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi and billy was on the run for his life i doubt he would be playing a fiddle at a get together

[@winkie51]

To my eye, Poker Billy matches the tintype much more than the other two. Fiddle & Montano lips do not match, they appear to be downturned and puffy. The quality of the photos matter, so it could just be that. How about the Croquet photo? This is for sure my favorite subject....the photos. Also, Peter Seleck in the poker photo with the tall hat is not Brewer. Maybe the guy to the right?

[@bigmonmagoomba9634]

Poker Billy’s chin seems to match the tintype.

[@TheJlmills]

poker billy is to me the closest to the tintype

[@jamesswenson8256]

Michael could the Poker Billy be wearing the same vest as the picture a few videos back? I think it was called a new Billy Picture.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

I need to go back and look!

[@TheJlmills]

great video my fav so far

[@winkie51]

If the names on the Pecos photo are wrong or reversed, could Jesse Evans be on the left side of 'Billy" ?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Could be? Would be great if we could find out who did the identifications.

[@DruGunners]

Just the middle one for me if I was to match it with the tin type.

[@desfletc]

Your 100% correct, Brushey is NOT Billy, they look nothing alike

[@raycook3945]

The name of Billy the kid starting to seem more like a a mantle like people are adding to themselves to make a name. Like the red hood in Batman..but I enjoy the history of Billy the kid..and great video.

[@sheiladean9394]

The dude under the chin of fiddle Billy could deff be Jessie Evans.

[@sheiladean9394]

And the guy in the white hat almost touching the violin that you think is Jess, I think that is deff Luke Short.

[@willsgotrythm42]

I don't think any of them look like the original tin type...

[@Susiecat24]

Only poker Billy is the kid! It's with Dan Dietrich, Fred Waite in the back by Billy and Dick Brewer on the far right. But the top hat is Billy 100%

[@andrewhaley4623]

The reason I do not believe Montana bill is the real billy is because he if not wearing a gamblers ring. Poker billy, neither Fred wait or Dick bower look correct. The last photo, as far ar I am aware did not play the fiddle. The only photo so far that I think could be Billy, is the one that was taken after he was captured following stinking springs, which has both Pat and Bob Olinger in it, with another gut pointing a pistol at Billy. What do you think? Here is a question for you what character in the Billy world played the fiddle as well as pressing flowers in a book

[@Tom_Van_Zandt]

@27:45 "Go ahead and subscribe; it's not gonna hurt you...". Yeah, I call BS. I hit the subscribe button and I got a really bad paper cut on my index finger while I was making freshly squeezed lemonade AND ALSO seeding and cutting up a jalapeño...So thanks a lot, jerk.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

“Your mileage my vary”

[@Tom_Van_Zandt]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi I have a question that I'm pretty sure you can answer...Why is the 1 tin type photo of Billy the Kid basically universally accepted as being an authentic picture of the Kid? I'm almost positive in one of your videos you quoted Paulita Maxwell as saying that the picture didn't do him any justice. Were there others who knew him in real life who also said it was a genuine picture of him? When was it rediscovered? And who had it? Was it a private collector of old photos and tin types, or was it a friend, relative or acquaintance of the Kid?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@Tom_Van_Zandt the one surviving (of 4) images was in the Dan Dedrick family since the 1880s. The photo was used as a basis for a drawing in the Police Gazette during Billy's lifetime. I don't remember anyone actually holding the photo and saying "Yes, this is Billy the Kid" however....

[@larrywastler5364]

It was a different world back then life was harder for and harder on kids in those days. They were forced to grow up quickly and learn to survive on their wits and skills, and it was even more difficult for kids whose parents had died from disease or famine, or even from the war. It's true that Billy did some terrible things, but I don't think the blame for all of his actions should be placed on him it certainly seems that he was pushed towards certain things that affected him, and blamed for things that weren't entirely his fault. The two biggest two questions I have are first of all, Why was he so feared by the politicians of the area where was the sole person blamed for sheriff Brady when odds are his shots weren't even aimed for Brady at all, and why was Garrett so quick to put him in the ground before a photographer could take a picture? Other gunfighters, and outlaws were displayed for days and even weeks after their deaths but Billy the kid is buried the next day? I think those things in and of themselves lend credence that Garrett didn't kill Billy. I don't think Brushy Bill and Billy the Kid are the same person there's not any real resemblance but knowing that you either can keep running or disappear because Garrett says he killed you. That's the point where whoever you are on the run from, the life you led is over. If you tell someone Garrett lied and you're still alive everyone will be hunting you and chasing you down to kill you. On the other hand if you accept the offering Garrett has given you then you disappear and completely change your life.

[@Drugstorecowboy69]

Poker Billy matches the tin type

[@leemacpeek2698]

I hope you are still checking these comments. Have you compared fiddle Billy to sombrero Billy? what if the original tintype photo that sold for 2mil is misidentified? I just found your channel today. I am not a Billy the Kid enthusiast, but I find it fun to watch the buzz when someone brings a new photo into the mix. I do think the croquet Billy and the Tintype original are the same person. I liked watching your video about the schoolhouse. this is a fun channel for awhile. i am assuming I have a lot of material to watch.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

The tintype image was published in March 1881 and identified as Billy. There is no doubt it was him since it was used in print prior to his death.

[@leemacpeek2698]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi thank you for clearing up the provenance of the original tintype.

[@ryangorby876]

That is interesting about the look alikes . They say the something things about John Dillinger having a look alike in 1934 as a bank robber

[@petereasy1973]

Poker Billy is Billy the kid. You know in a split second. The guy playing the fiddle and the guy on the horse is obviously not.

[@danielwebster5748]

Billy the kid playing cards has been authenticated as Billy the kid and it's going on auction for a starting price tag of $1 million dollars

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Where's that auction, and who authenticated it please? Thanks...

[@turnerpie1]

Omg that middle photo looks like him!

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Right??

[@TheGuns286]

Maybe I’m looking at it through modern eyes, but the fiddle picture looks fake to me. The guy supposed to be Jessie Evans and the guy to the left of “Billy” are slightly grainy, but Billy is clear. I know with tintypes any movement will cause distortion, but they look grainy not distorted.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

That was called to my attention and I can't disagree. It's weird that his face is the most clear.

[@greg19071961]

That struck me too..."Billy's" face is clear and the others are grainy...photoshopped?

[@jeanlawson9133]

They all look the same but different,, Ain't it just ain't it 😎 Honestly though why would Billy ever look the same from Town to Town or all around...????

[@melhubner1881]

I think the 3 photos are more than likely the same guy, but really not too convinced they are the same guy as the original tintype because of the ears.

[@SP-qo3pd]

pantomiming is okay, all of us have a little italian or french in us somewhere.

[@ermano58]

Brushy looks absolutely nothing like bllly bonney the stark black hair and mustache actually have him looking mexican the jaw the ears the eyes nothing matches to tintype, card playing , fiddle , croquet, montero horse rider, or standing by chair billy, or billy with new suit jacket, those photos all have certain matches of bonney where as brushy zip nada

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

That's the way I see it....but I know other people will see it differently.

[@davidball699]

Some people believe the tin photo is actually a death photo

[@teamjanzeslife8741]

Great podcast =)

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Thank you!

[@BB-xp4pz]

For the heck of it for facial recognition comparisons with each other and Brushy Bill?

[@bobbiburger4015]

I don't see that picture of Brushy matching Billy's tintype, or even the older pictures of Brushy, but old pictures of Brushy look similar to Billy.

[@kitkat8265]

Just a few thoughts. I recall seeing the central photo elsewhere that claimed Dick Brewer is the man on the left. Yes older than Billy but but not as old as the man to the right of Billy in the same photo. Looking at the photo often used of Dick Brewwer (see Wiki) it is a challenge to tell as we have a profile and frontal image to compare. Though they are similar the ear and jaw line seem different and to a minor extent the nose, the latter is hardest to tell given the differing angles. However, Dick was killed early in the Lincoln county war so even if this photo is staged after his death with a reasonable lookalike it still does not mean it is not the real Billy participating in the staged photo. Money for the job being a good motivator and also paying homage to Dick. Using a lookalike on profile would also be a good way to disguise the Dick lookalike. If I am recalling Dick Brewer being on the left correctly, I personally do not think it is the same person in the solo wiki photo of same guy.

[@stevemccarty6384]

I need the camera icon to post my pic of Dick Brewer.

[@JulieJewelzKvasnicka]

What if "Billy the Kid" signed the photo, as a way of saying "one day I'll be famous" 🤔

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Now that would be both awesome....and crazy. Imagine how much $$$$ it would be worth?

[@TheJlmills]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi you could make a movie just about that awesome

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@TheJlmills that's true.....kind of a careless signature that led researchers down winding roads for years chasing the wrong guy....I like it!

[@TheJlmills]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi that's brilliant i better get production credit or something lol

[@ronaldolweiler7745]

Not one looks like the authenticated tin type. Brushy bill doesn't even look like a cousin ! But that's just my opinion.

[@jeanlawson9133]

Look at the nostrils,,,,dead giveaway the actors nostrils don't match...his ears also were different from left to right noticeably

[@stevemccarty6384]

The fellow on horseback is Tom Folliard aka O'Folliard. He is also the gent wearing the light colored top hat. Come on folks, people have been wrongly identifying these photos for years!

[@kennethtapia4711]

Mike, you should make a film where there's actually 3 best friends that went under the alias, "Billy the Kid." All involved in Lincoln County war, helped and bailed each other out to escape and all went their separate ways later with one being shot. 😊

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

So Billy, Brushy, and Miller are the 3 guys?....and only one of them gets killed....but the other two in the end claim to be THE Billy the Kid??? I love it!

[@kennethtapia4711]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi Yes! I'll definitely WATCH that like we all watch your contents. I'm a Brushy guy, but I still love listening to all your points because all your contents are really good. 😊😁👍👍 Thank you so much for this channel.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@kennethtapia4711 I'd need to raise some money to make that film....but I do love the idea. You never know?

[@philfoster2246]

to me Poker Billy looks the closest to the tintype! looks like he has a bit of an over bite to me as well

[@lesleyewen-foster3629]

I think all three images could be Billy. In regard to the horse, I think it was a photographer's prop (so relaxed and unmoving) and the rope too is part of the prop, placed on the side facing the camera. Fiddler Billy could be half sitting/leaning on a table or chair. Because we can't see his legs we cannot assume height. What I really want to know is the result of handwriting analysis of the photographer. Thanks for your efforts.

[@stevemccarty6384]

The fellow on the horse in the Montano pic is Tom Folliard and not BTK.

[@lesleyewen-foster3629]

@@stevemccarty6384 Any thoughts about why BTK name is on the back of the picture. Were they friends? Contemporaries?

[@stevemccarty6384]

The rider is not Billy, but Tom Folliard. He is also the fellow wearing the top hat in the card players photo. Billy is in that pic, but he is the guy wearing the dark hat on the far left of the photo.

[@aussiejoker2031]

Good work🥴😕. The poker photo looks like the tin photo.....

[@klatu1951]

For the Fiddle picture. Tintype and reversed? Two men are holding glasses in their right hand. Fiddle Billy is interesting in the way he is holding/positioned the fiddle. He would have played it with his right hand. The so-called Billy on horseback is also interesting. The rope is on the rider’s left as a right handed would keep it, but the size of the animal is wrong for the rider. Prop horse? Borrowed for the photo? Gun/holster if worn is not visible - no pinky ring seen on left hand.

[@dodgeramsport01]

Agreed! The horse looks like a pony or mule! Just something not right about that picture

[@peacepupppy]

I thought pics from this time period were reversed.

[@rharthart9477]

There is a pic shows left to right - Billy, Tunstall and Chavez... or so they say. Won't let me post it.

[@rharthart9477]

The 'Billy' in the pic I'm talking about looks like the poker playing Billy...

[@shawnstouffer8249]

That sure doesn’t look like Luke Short to me lol

[@greg19071961]

I keep changing my mind every time I look at the photos lol. The one really clear one (poker Billy) he is looking down so you can't really tell. Now I wish some one who knew Billy would have said something more about the tin type... like the cardigan and hat. No one mentions him wearing a cardigan (that I know of.) They always say he wore a sombrero or wide brimmed hat? If they weren't borrowed, or photo props and he liked wearing them... then I'm thinking the croquet Billy? I just don't know anymore? 😵‍💫The only thing I am one hundred percent sure about is Brushy Bill and tin type Billy are not the same person.❤🤠

[@davealexanian]

I hear that card game photo is a shot of the Marx brother's playing a game on set.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

:-)

[@navydogsadventures3500]

I am not convinced that any of these are the Billy the Kid. I have seen multiple pictures of the same person from this time period but the person doesn't look the same! So these could be pictures of the same person! I always look at the ears!👍. The Brushy picture is a no go in my opinion but I am a nobody!😂

[@shaundavenport621]

It depends if the others in the photo can be identified!

[@fenderchick121]

brushy bill looks NOTHING like billy the kid to me .

[@TheSpaghetti64]

Thanks!

[@georgeroberts613]

The cheeks and chin look the same in all three, but Poker Billy looks to me like the tin type Billy. I can see how, with the slightest movement, they'd be the same...or just with the cocked angle in the tintype. But what of the dead guy? There's a story there...was he friend or enemy? Well, maybe not, has a cigar in his mouth...and maybe he blinked some or moved:)

[@shwngbr]

Only 1 photo of BTK. If one of the lost tin types show up. Then we will have more.

[@georgeroberts613]

On fiddle player Billy, I still think the 'guest of honor' at the table is dead and propped up:)

[@Chaabi.DZ.]

That,s the report from new york time at that time ...Reporting on his death in 1881, The New York Times described Billy the Kid as slim, good-looking and mild-mannered. “His soft blue eyes were so attractive that those who saw him for the first time looked upon him as a victim of circumstances,” it reported. “In spite of his innocent appearance, however, Billy the Kid was really one of the most dangerous characters which this country has produced.”

[@the_real_max_level]

This picture has already been legitimately confirmed not being bonney.

[@georgeroberts613]

On the Brushy comparison...even with a few more years of better eating and the mustache... the nose and eye brows are hard to think they are the same even with different lighting...yah.

[@dylanj.horton6611]

“Poker Billy” is Billy the kid. Fiddle and Montano pic is absolutely 100 percent NOT Billy the Kid. It’s an interesting little theory and good for KZbin views but those two pics are not Billy.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Great. Would love to see any real proof of this that you have.

[@yungazking73]

It doesn't take a genius to notice the similarities between poker Billy and tintype Billy.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

It certainly doesn't.... :-)

[@yungazking73]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi the hair the jaw the eyes and of course the hat

[@scottwilliams8334]

What do you think of the series on TV ? Personally, I don't like it.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

I only saw episode 1......I'm with you. So much extraneous made up stuff that was totally unnecessary. Maybe season 2 will be better?

[@behnamzadeh1936]

All of the photos of billy is blessing of God for us its merical

[@tammymaywald1156]

You completely dismissed Brushy Bill based on the earlobe. But here, you say maybe/maybe not to these and poker Billy has attached earlobes. Why the contradiction?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Actually all I’ve said is that these photos all look like they could be the same person who is probably not William Bonney. He might have been known as Billy the Kid to some, whoever he is. Also, the brushy people are the ones who compare him to the Koch tintype. So much so that some of them were willing to fraudulently present the findings as a match. If you see Brushy in any of these photos, good on you. I don’t see it. Never have.

[@tammymaywald1156]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi Nope. I don’t see Brushy in these. And if I misunderstood you then the fault is mine. I thought you said (paraphrased)..could these be Billy? We don’t know. If we go off of earlobes then poker Billy cannot be him, nor Brushy Bill.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@tammymaywald1156 if the Koch tintype is billy then none of these guys are him. But if all of these are of the same person, why was one identified as being the Kid? That’s really my point and one I want to resolve.

[@tammymaywald1156]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi I gotcha. Have you ever weighed in on this one? kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZbOoKuClLSlodE

[@BullyHeadTM]

A few of us historians have always thought that the guy with the top hat in the poker Billy was Tom O'Folliard and the guy to the far right exposing his hand to the camera was the actual Billy.

[@Mr.56Goldtop]

I agree about top hat being O'Falliard, it looks just like him. But the player on the left is much more difficult. And maybe Billy wasn't even present at this photo shoot. Who knows! But if Billy is there my vote would be for the guy at the far left showing his cards.

[@stevemccarty6384]

IMNO: the names of the men in the card playing photo L to R are: Billy (in the dark hat) Tom Folliard in the light colored top hat, then Dick Brewer and lastly Frank McNab.

[@dodgeramsport01]

@@stevemccarty6384 I agree! The guy on far left I think is billy if billy is even in this picture!

[@dodgeramsport01]

The guy on far left( the first guy) in poker picture is in my opinion billy!

[@BullyHeadTM]

@@Mr.56Goldtop Billy is here. Just not the guy with top hat.

[@eddieboulrice6791]

Maybe the fiddle billy was just a fiddle some one had and he pick it up to take the picture like when your at a party where guys are playing music and someone grabs a guitar and tryes to play it .who knows bro you got a puzzle here for sure but i dig it .maybe some day we will find out but not today.people will be sending you all kinds of picture now.we have one of the biggest antique sales in the country here.so i got to look out for tin types. of western pictures i wouldnt be hard im from new England not alot of cowboys here LOL.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

That's a good point....the photo looks staged, as most were, so perhaps the fiddle guy just held it up?

[@JesusGonzalez-mo1iw]

The. Middle one. Just. Got. A. Different. Hat

[@cynthiawashburn771]

Brushy doesn't look like Billy at all. Brushy had evil eyes, Billy did not. Even if you found irrefutable proof Billy lived, Brushy still wouldn't be Billy. Not even close.

[@danielwebster5748]

I don't know people that knew both of them said it was Billy and to me they look alike I mean just I mean there's a 90 even the computer was 93% certain they were the same person and they said the other 7% That's missing could be due to age but interestingly enough 93% is enough proof to take a man to court and charging with murder if he killed someone. Also if I'm not mistaken card playing Billy has been proved to be Billy the kid

[@danielwebster5748]

Brushy Bill spoke Spanish to a Mexican woman in Lincoln county the guy that was with him swore he did and he can slip out of his handcuffs and that is super super super rare

[@danielwebster5748]

And how many people have uneven ears not too many but I know of two brushy Bill and Billy the kid

[@danielwebster5748]

No offense you're entitled to your own opinion but I mean if you want to consider Pat Garrett to be credible when he wrote a book right after that making Billy the saint and it was chock full of lies. Add to that that he shot the wrong man three different times before supposedly shooting Billy in the dark. And one phone thing even though nowadays family don't mean anything to most people back then family meant a lot and Billy's woman was Pat Garrett's cousin. Billy survived Jesse Evans survived and Jesse Evans said brushy bill was Billy the kid and the only ones that were accounted for the rest of them were either dead is in or in prison was Jesse Evans and if you survived Billy the kid. To me Pat Garrett has zero credibility he shot the wrong man three different times and he wrote a book that historians have said is nothing but fairy tales and lies.

[@danielwebster5748]

So my question is if brushy bill is not Billy the kid then who is he because he knows so much about the Lincoln county war and different places in New Mexico that he absolutely had to have been there and as I said there's only one man that's unaccounted for and it's just the Evans and he can't be just the Evans because he would have been a hundred years old. I mean this part that I just said is not even debatable there's only one man missing and it's just the Evans so who is brushing bill cuz clearly he was in the Lincoln county war is there absolutely no record of him I don't think so. Every other man involved in the Lincoln county war was either dead or in prison except Jesse Evans and again if he survived Billy the kid. So if he's not Billy the kid we have one hell of a conundrum who is he because no one is on accounting for but Jesse Evans.

[@slimrichard6817]

Nix the fiddle player. Yes on the Montoya and poker picture being the same person which looks like a picture of Billy and ? ( somebody ) Related to an illegal card game in Las Vegas New Mexico that came across the net last week or so . Not saying it's Billy , but all three pictures match as the same person .

[@Peepssqwik]

None of those other pics look like billy. The gambling pic looks like him.

[@maxlife9721]

looks like him and afew others in other pics

[@nicholasgruse6313]

I don't think any of these gentlemen are billy, the original Beaver Saloon photo shows billy with a rather awkward stance and a face only a Maxwell could love. Very distinct features that are missing from the trio of pictures. Only my opinion.

[@kennylopez8008]

If you look closest the original tintype photo the hair curls up by the ear making it look like the ear is detached, but it is not billys ears are attach n out,,,,the shoulders and forehead is all the same as well as Brushy,,,,,you may have to go back n do some ore studying of the pics

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

You may need to read the conversation with the man that did the photo study. You’ll change your mind.

[@kennylopez8008]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi Yea I get it, but we can do all the studies that we want, we still won't know, so I go with the majority of likelys n wait for true facts hopefully down the road,

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@kennylopez8008 fair enough!

[@Mr.56Goldtop]

These commentators complaining about you talking with your hands obviously are not Italian, and that's just their hard luck. But that's what we do. Now on to BtK! These might be BtK, but not THE BtK in my opinion. And the photographer doesn't drag the horse around for pictures, people come to his studio to be photographed and The left-handed saddle is probably a prop, maybe to make the tin type look right handed. The "Billy" on the horse I think could just be a joke. A young guy took this picture and he, or someone else wrote BtK on the back to be funny. Maybe this young feller's name was actually Billy and he or someone else was playing with that. Who knows. And the top hat guy is definitely Tom O'Folliard. Several pictures online of him that look just like this picture.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

😂😂😂😂😂 I speak fluent hand Italian.

[@Mr.56Goldtop]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi We all do.

[@brianjones9351]

only way to settle the brushy bill debate is to have DNA test done with his and billys mother,,,,,period

[@mrliberty8468]

Its common knowledge that Billy the kid would stop what ever he was doing to take tin type photos even when he running away from the law.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

😂

[@alexblue6991]

I have a wanted poster of Billy the kid

[@BryieURuncal2023]

FBI disagrees with your assessment photo recognition is positive on Billy AKA the Kid. ha ha

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Unsure what you’re laughing at or even what you’re talking about. Please cite the link to the FBI study that shows whatever the hell you’re talking about. We’ll wait……………..

[@ldg2655]

I don’t think that Brushy Bill Robert’s and Oliver Pleasant Robert’s were the same person..

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

There's quite a bit of documentation that they are....but people believe different things.

[@dodgeramsport01]

They were not the same person, there is about a 15 year difference in their age and they use it to discredit things!

[@dodgeramsport01]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi and there is documentation that says otherwise! Also! So who knows

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@dodgeramsport01 Actually someone does know....and has proof that cannot be refuted. It's just that I can't release anything about it.....but soon, I think.

[@dodgeramsport01]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi good deal

[@prudd72]

Perfect fix

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

thanks! Sorry about that....

[@johnstanley9719]

You keep talking about slope shoulders. Slope shoulders!Slope shoulders! Slope shoulders! I did a little experiment by holding my arms in different places and positions. From the dozens of different positions I held my arms, in about half of the positions, I as well had slope shoulders. Does that make me Billy the Kid? Try it out for yourself. The easiest one is stand with your hands on your hips and see how square the shoulders are. Then drop your hands at your side and notice the how the shoulders slope. That's in every human being out there. So I don't think that his shoulders are the most defining aspect of his body. In my opinion its all in his face. The spacing between his eyes. Bridge of the nose. Pointy chin. Mouth and ears are the aspects I look at. The shoulders are most likely sloped just due to the positioning of the arms. Just one man's opinion. Btw...another great episode 👍 keep them coming ✌

[@Montgomeryyy]

Narrow shoulders and wider hips were a part of Billy's physique that seemed rather distinct in the tintype. So you dismissing it is weird. It's not just the face, you gotta take someone's entire body into consideration when identifying them. His left hand is resting against the rifle in the tintype, so the arm would not be completely relaxed and the shoulder still looks small. Based on my knowledge of the human anatomy (as an artist), that would imply someone who has narrow shoulders and not a very strong physical build.

[@obizzil]

The photo on the left of the guy on the horse has been proven not to be billy although taken in Lincoln county it was after billy made his escape. In my unprofessional opinion I think poker billy is real, Billy was actually well photographed for the time, honestly i hope the mystery never gets solved so we can talk about Billy The Kid forever.🤠🇺🇸

[@jadeblues357]

I think these three guys are the same guy I do not think they match the tin type that we know is billy

[@Chaabi.DZ.]

He looks like him yes .. the poker picture he looks like getting bit older Thats My opinion

[@JesusGonzalez-mo1iw]

It’s. The. Same. Guy. In. All. 3

[@henriksjolund8162]

No, none of those pictures are BTK. They don't even look alike.

[@davidball699]

But to me the first two pictures, the man looks, Hispanic

[@Alpha_fitz]

Mouth closed in these 3. Not so in tin type. I think the tin type was also same guy.

[@kennylopez8008]

All three pics have the same ears as Brushy Bill Roberts

[@annheywood8170]

But the rest of the face is completely different to Brushy Bill Roberts!

[@kennylopez8008]

@@annheywood8170 that's because there's a 10 to 15 yr gap between the pics plus one is Ean cut the other rough n dirty.....I compared my own pics n my grandkids could not make me out in pictures that put me back 20 yrs ago

[@kennylopez8008]

Clean cut

[@tammyparsons1597]

In the picture of Brushy Bill, he looks like his eyes and ears are two different sizes and his chin is square shaped and does not match any of these other photos.

[@jadeblues357]

You don’t talk with your hands too much😊

[@stevemccarty6384]

The guy in the Montano pic on horseback is Tom Folliard. In the card players the bloke on the far left in the dark hat is the Kid. The guy in the tall light colored top hat is also Tom Folliard. The guy holding the violin might be Billy. We know he was musical. The guy to the left of Billy just might be Dave Rudabaugh. Note his heavy brow. The rather vague gent just below the violin holding Billy just might be John S. Chisum. Narrow set eyes, mustache, smoking. Jaw cancer just might have killed him.

[@danielwebster5748]

I would say you're a good researcher because so many people mispronounce his name as Tom o'falliard and his name was Tom middle name or middle initial o and then falliard

[@ZeteticPlato]

👍

[@danielwebster5748]

You must not have listened to whatever Mexican woman said that wanted to sleep with him they said the ten type looks absolutely nothing like the real Billy not saying it's not Billy the kid just saying it is a very poor invitation according to everyone who knew him. I mean women are not going to bestow their favors on a man that look like the person in that yet we know that Billy the kid had multiple women everywhere. And the Mexican women were literally standing in line to get a chance to sleep with him so they could tell their grandchildren they actually had a relationship with Billy the kid.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Yeah....that's not true.

[@MrPAULONEAL]

What if BTK wasn't a real person?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Explain

[@MrPAULONEAL]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi There are dozens of pictures of every other member of the Regulators.