Wes Huff Explains His Issue With Jordan Peterson's Interpretation Of The Bible

[@nathanparag2032]

He really did a good job illustrating the difference between the law and the intention of the law

[@akanimohosutuk928]

I think we can all agree we need Wes and Peterson to have a debate 😅

[@DarthRadical]

It could be interesting for them to talk, but I think they'd 90+% agree, so I'm not sure how much of a debate it'd be.

[@ATHNTK8DTV]

And I don’t know if it’s the debate that we would think… Cause Jordan is more Philosophical / existential with facts based on empirical studies and experience based on his years in his practice. Wes is more historical theological. Which his facts are based on historical evidence based on readings, findings, and biblical teachings. It would be one of those interviews where if the chemistry between them is good and they are meeting each other in the middle, it will be almost as if not as significant of an impact as his video with Billy Carson

[@mikerosoft1009]

Welllllll it depends what you mean by debate! -JP

[@DQuanAlSamirOHoulihan]

I Just want Wes to push JP into taking that extra step

[@cotillion]

or just a discussion

[@willyb92]

Bless, O Lord, us Thy servants who minister in Thy temple. Grant that what we sing with our lips we may believe in our hearts, and what we believe in our hearts we may show forth in our lives. Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

[@MrDamoune]

I do LOVE how God is slowly but surely making his way to Joe's heart.

[@Harley_2023_richieg]

And using some of his best people.

[@honestal2684]

He will never be a Christian , he will learn truths about Jesus but he will never fall into a Christianity spiritual Ego , he is way too smart for that

[@Astar-q8l]

So eager to bring another person into your cult 🙄

[@Jbayz]

@@Astar-q8l Or save someone from eternal damnation. We look at God's creation, those whom have been created in his image and we long for them to know the one who created them. Its a change of heart that can be looked upon and rejoiced in. Its a change of life that we have known that we want to see in those we admire and even those whom could be considered our enemies.

[@Astar-q8l]

@@Jbayz no it’s still a delusional cult. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

[@Eta_Carinae__]

I have felt somewhat the same. Jordan, and by extension Jung, have a very deep and developed point, that will allow for a universality for Christian teaching. They create a narrative about the genealogy of a monotheistic god, they correlate it to the development of values and provide a causal link, and distill those values into single propositions, hermeneutically supported by the gospels, and evidentially supported by living life. But in doing so, they remove the agency of the _particular_ Jesus Christ - he can't be a radical figure under JP's narrative, and moreover, it changes radically the notion of a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ". Jung thinks that you tap into a collective unconscious by receiving wisdom from Christ in prayer. There is no god outside of that mass intersubjectivity; and no way that collective unconscious can be wrong. The point of a monotheistic god, it seems to me as an analytic, that it provides one the conceptual work to be able to see and interact with the world _as it really is,_ for our mind was borne in the likeness of that which created it all. It justifies the prejudice of our faculties of perception and judgement, but rescinds our prejudice for emotion - in the case of Christ in particular, explicitly. Not to say it's the only game in town that can achieve this, but taking it away by psychologising it seems rather to defeat the point.

[@lol55832]

Dunno about Peterson but Jung had a reason and very compelling one at that. Please read his autobiography, his experiences in his childhood in fact are rather fascinating and

[@GeorgeHennegar]

Wow, this is really good, would like to hear more of your views on this. Very well put

[@Rodrigo24717]

It strengthens the point as it lays it out in all cultures. So, in essence, it's the pursuit of truth and truth is God, therefore Christ. The archetype of Christ needs to be followed. Not just adored. Not just praise. Or saying he's the savior. He is the savior if you walk with him. That's the act of believing.

[@bjaka220]

@ 2:50 - "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath". You hear that truth hit Joe. Wes was 100% on point using that verse right there! 👏

[@besanzaz]

Wes has a very deep understanding of the word. He presents great insights. There is awesome revelation on him.

[@turin1286]

I think people should go back to Peterson’s first biblical lecture on Genesis. There he clearly states his purpose was to explained the psychological significance of the Bible. Which is my understanding is the goal of all his lectures on the topic. He is trying to convey why these stories have value regardless if you adhere to religious organizations that holds them as inspired word of God. He’s admitted he doesn’t have the breath of knowledge of a religious figure so that’s not the angle he’s approaching the stories from.

[@yourwishfulfilled]

Joe Rogan, Professor Jordan B Peterson, and Wes Huff, together?? MAKE IT SO!

[@knighnp]

And Ben Shapiro

[@btbb3726]

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector [someone considered to be bad person by the religious leaders]. The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 18:10-14 notice “praying this to himself: ‘God . . . ” above

[@paulh12s]

I don't think Peterson's take on Christ is "just" an archetype. It's quite clear from the Jonathan Pageau interview where he cries that he believes that the material world and the symbolic/narrative world touch. That there is a mystery there. He also recently stated in a Catholic podcast that he had given himself to Jesus years ago. That means different things to different people. Some believers outside the church are much more Christian than those who go each week thinking the whole thing is "literally true".

[@harbingerofepiphany3155]

That is actually a decent point.

[@DareusTyn]

Even the demons know the symbolic and material worlds touch. That knowledge doesn't lead to salvation.

[@paulh12s]

@@DareusTyn Jordan Peterson has converted more people to Christ than any pastor in the last 50 years.

[@DareusTyn]

@@paulh12s JP is not a Christian. I am not sure why non-Christians sometimes think they know Jesus better than us.

[@paulh12s]

@@DareusTyn isn't that for God to judge alone and not you?

[@ChristAliveForevermore]

You know Peterson's gonna clap back. This is going to get so interesting!

[@Harley_2023_richieg]

That's ok. Wes is correct and Jordan needs to come on over to the Christian side now.

[@Antiluls]

what, by crying?

[@UmbrellaGent]

How so? He's been confronted about this before, a few times. Not much has come off it.

[@LeeHanma-p2e]

@@Harley_2023_richieghe already has

[@EJARNY]

Very good point!

[@allnothing581]

It's a faith-based religion because it is not an empirically based religion. For me, belief cannot be turned on like a light switch, If you KNOW something to be true then you don't have to believe it to be true.

[@Diallelus]

Belief and knowledge can be disconnected from one another. Belief is the tendency to act in a certain way and knowledge is the ability to think/speak about something, as it is, on an appropriate basis of thought and experience. People know things all the time but don’t believe them. For example, a man might know that cheating on his wife is wrong, but he doesn’t believe that it’s wrong, because he’s had a decade long affair. Belief doesn’t just mean intellectually assenting to a proposition.

[@brianbridges8124]

@@Diallelus ''a man might know that cheating on his wife is wrong, but he doesn’t believe that it’s wrong, because he’s had a decade long affair.'' i dont think thasts possible, if he knew that cheating was wrong then its impossible for him to believe its not wrong... when i feel that I know something... evey fibre of my being feels like it's true... the idea that i could know something is true, whilst simulataneously believe its not true seems like it doesnt make any logical sense whatsoever...

[@ShermanMays-fw8ko]

I have grown in faith to want the Lord to seek the Lord to accept the Lord to be filled with his Spirit to get a new heart to experience the Lord to know the Lord. ❤️

[@Harley_2023_richieg]

@@ShermanMays-fw8ko Amen.

[@blackwiddowflainfrost6705]

Don't use the word empirical when you don't understand empiricism at all. Empiricism is based on the assumption/FAITH that your can perceive TRUTH. You are ASSUMING, i.e., BELIEVING, i.e., HAVING FAITH that your EMPIRICAL OBSERVATIONS are TRUE and REPRESENT REALITY. THAT IS FAITH.

[@ATHNTK8DTV]

This is really good 🔥🔥🔥

[@DrewH-u9f]

The difference between Christianity Vs Other Religions is in other Religions its is what can you do for God but in Christianity its is God gave himself to you .

[@adrianmiles7678]

That’s a very limited view. Christianity, Islam, Mormans, Jehovahs Witnesses are all materialistic religions meaning separated from god. Spiritualism, animism and mysticism believe we are all god and we are here to learn lessons and Buddhism and agnosticism is somewhere in between. It’s why wars have never been started against other religions by the conscious religions because they believe they would just be hurting themselves

[@jabogtewan3232]

The crusades?

[@adrianmiles7678]

@@jabogtewan3232 they were between materialistic religions not conscious religions like spiritualism, mysticism, animism, Buddhism or agnosticism.

[@Astar-q8l]

No. In Christianity it's that God will burn majority of people in hell. But he still lives them 🙃

[@andrewholland21]

All that does nothing if I don’t believe it. It’s my faith that’s required.

[@concken1]

perfect analysis

[@lizhang9807]

that is so profound. the mirror analogy ...

[@christianvance1614]

Please Lord let joe have peterson and wes on!!

[@calebmantle5694]

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others"

[@twistpv]

I moved the trees with my hands, and arranged the wood into a geometrical shape, now I have made a home I prayed and saw geometry, I was in the house of the lord They don’t believe in god, because others can’t see, they do not practice prayer. They only see the works of their hands, their thoughts aren’t even real until they speak or write… even though they know they had them.

[@Xyrogenix]

Deity of Christ: As messiah: Ps. 24:7,10; 45:6&7 Isa. 8:13&14; 40:3&11 Jer. 23:5&6 Zec. 13:7 Matt. 3:3 Mark 2:7&10 Rom. 9:5 Col.3:13 Titus 2:13 Hebr. 13:20 1pet. 2:8 (As GOD) Gen. 2:3 Isa. 7:14, 9:6, 44:6, 48:12-16 Matt. 1:23, 12:8, 26:63-67 John 1:1, 14&18; 3:16, 18,31 Act. 10:36 Rom. 10:11-13 1Cor. 1:30, 2:8, 4:5, 15:47 2Cor. 5:10 Phil. 2:6 Col. 1:15&16, 2:9 2Tim. 4:1 Heb. 1:3,8,10-12 Jame. 2:1 1John 4:9, 5:20 Rev. 1:5,17; 17:4; 22:13

[@joeesph55]

Jesus loves me this I know

[@DrewH-u9f]

For the Bible tells me so

[@brianbridges8124]

@@DrewH-u9f round and round the circle goes...

[@ShermanMays-fw8ko]

Yup ❤️

[@X-Bones]

For republicans tell me so.

[@conrad6226]

Not so much the kids with cancer.

[@NickBallenger-i7i]

My issue with Peterson’s interpretation is that it's inaccurate in its hermeneutical approach by everyone at the table. He didn't have one solid theologian, and I expected much better from him in such a subject matter. It's like he went for random guys he thought were experts without asking for a peer review from multiple denominational and theological perspectives.

[@jamesstanford7603]

Agree 100% Wes...

[@manfrombritain6816]

the sticky thing is... there's no functional difference between the supernatural and the archetype. the archetype, however, is completely grounded in reality so people can accept it

[@BrandonSobotka4IHP]

I think you're saying that he uses the archetype to make it easier to both explain and understand. I agree. I also think this is what makes Peterson so good at what he does. He is able to make abstractions and complexity easier to "grasp".

[@RodrigoSevilha1984]

To the end of times Jesus is the breaking good news that people need

[@heartlights]

Team Wes

[@timothym2241]

I agree. Peterson talks so little about the actual message of the gospel, and what one needs to do to be saved.

[@keithcampbell7820]

@@timothym2241 Jordan Peterson is neither an Evangelist nor an Apologist. Quit trying to force him into a confession of your liking.

[@keithcampbell7820]

@@RolandtheThompsonGunner 😂

[@RolandtheThompsonGunner]

@keithcampbell7820 It just is what it is. 🤷‍♂️

[@keithcampbell7820]

@@RolandtheThompsonGunner You should watch him more. He is very serious, but also embraces joy and laughter. So my question would be what percentage of our time is under a smile requirement? 🤔

[@andrewholland21]

Peterson doesn’t claim Christianity

[@micahdevlaminck3833]

3:20 for the war hawks on both sides of the aisle

[@ShermanMays-fw8ko]

If you hate anyone the love of God is not in you family 🕊️🔥

[@ConciousEffort-ns6wx]

Let’s get Wes huff and Jordan Peterson on the stage to debate

[@HPP2023]

The more you think of yourself, the more of a relative standard good you set for yourself. The truth of life is we all fall short of our own standards of good we set for ourselves - right? How often are you your biggest critic of YOU. No peace, no contentment but you keep striving and "chasing the wind". This turmoil is also played out with how we treat others as well. Since we cannot reconcile or deal with our own "falling short", we point out others to try to make us feel better. ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF THE PERFECT STANDARD OF GOD. We are united by this inevitable truth of sin and fallenness which means if we cry for justice, we all are deserving of judgment. Sure, you watch the news and hear about people doing horrible things, but that heart you carry is just as capable of doing the very same horrible things because you are capable of committing the start of any sin. Jesus reminds of this with the Sermon on the Mount - thou shall not murder BUT if you hold anger (murder begins with anger) - thou shall not commit adultery BUT if you look with lust (adultery begins with lust) ... see, all are guilty and fallen! We all need a Savior. There is only one way into heaven and that is to be perfect...thank God for sending His Son, Who lived the life I couldn't and died the death I deserved so I may know true life and never know death! Saved from God, by God and for God!

[@dungeonquesting8075]

I agree with this man, Jesus is God

[@daniel09dailey]

Joe's 'like aethiests' comment is very telling isn't it..✝️Let's go!!!

[@MuscleMan132]

I don’t think a religious person a truly explain the interpretations of the teachings. It would take a person who doesn’t believe in anything to remove the bias. The truth is he is not speaking “facts”. It’s all beliefs.

[@retroafro1]

The cross over is the part in which you run the risk of being cancelled

[@jayrainville3319]

Modern evangelicalism is a works based religion.

[@bluecollarcode9874]

This dude is EXACTLY F*CKIN RIGHT ABOUT PETERSON'S DANCE.

[@IamQuintin]

"John 13:34 Another Commandment That I Give Unto You; That You Love One Another As I Have Loved You. By This Shall They Know That Ye Are My Disciples. " I think the Lord did intend that we follow Him.

[@FrancisSchupp-i2k]

Define God's love for me.

[@IamQuintin]

@FrancisSchupp-i2k Read everything wherein Jesus teaches

[@warrenbuyer]

Who is the "one another" in that verse, would you say?

[@IamQuintin]

@@warrenbuyer Anyone who is in need

[@FrancisSchupp-i2k]

@IamQuintin I asked you to define it, I didn't ask for a stupid response like that. Can you define God's love for me?

[@micahwood1999]

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

[@BlueBarrier782]

Peterson has ZERO credentialed expertise in biblical studies. He frequently gets very basic history wrong with some wild interpretations from poor translations and context. He simply doesn't have the tools to discuss these things. If you want to know about psychology, at least Peterson has a background in it. But for Biblical discussion, no one should be taking him seriously.

[@brunopezzey9516]

"credentialed expertise" doesn't matter a single whit in the realm of the spiritual. not one.

[@warrenbuyer]

The Bible is written as an account - Certainly it presents teachings, but illustrated by real people and events. The person Jesus Christ historically existed

[@HybridCritter138]

How many Tom Holland's are in this world?

[@toreoft]

It is just that for Peterson explanations must be long and complicated. He has difficulty with easy one-sentence formulations. For him to describe what the idea of Christ and Christ contains, he will never be done with explaining. This resembles the last sentences of the Gospel of John that say something like: If all where to be written down, the whole World could not contain all those books . . . . I se nothing not-completely-Christian in this.

[@MessianicJewJitsu]

Jordan also said Jesus physically walked out of the tomb. All things aside that is the lynchpin of history. Did He get back up?

[@mrshmuga9]

Sure, but does Jordan believe Jesus could literally perform miracles or that all those miracles were metaphors? Because even atheists will believe Jesus was a person who existed, but not that he was the messiah that could perform miracles. That’s quite a difference.

[@warrenbuyer]

Well, the historicity of Jesus Christ is agreed on by most all of academia. If you research it

[@intello8953]

I always wonder has any Jordan Peterson fans actually read his books? He literally talks about why he became an atheist or an agnostic because he believed as a teenager that the fundamental doctrines of Christianity is super confusing. He literally debated a priest when he was like 15 or something haha

[@LeeHanma-p2e]

You are taking what he said out of context… Jordan Peterson is definitely a believer of Christ..he just doesn’t do it in the way people want him to

[@intello8953]

@ what do you mean a “believer of Christ”? Do you mean Jordan Peterson believes a dude named Jesus existed and was walking around downtown Jerusalem and preaching some message or do you mean he literally believes in the incarnation, the vicarious atonement and the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

[@kucutooms8685]

Morals is important for everyone.......we must strive to be Christ-like......keep working and developing as Christians.....following the word of GOD....nt the word of Man.....

[@regeneratus-l2w]

Yes, but that is not the point Wes was making. There is a difference between striving to obey God’s moral law and moralizing, as Jordan Peterson does. Peterson moralizes and sees Christ as a mere example instead of the divine son of God who died and was literally resurrected. He sees morals as a way to clean and save yourself, when in fact no amount of obeying the moral law and good works can clean or save you. Salvation and being washed of sins can only come by grace through faith in Christ Jesus as the son of God who died for our transgressions and was resurrected on the third day.

[@kucutooms8685]

@regeneratus-l2w I get his point, but you are still meant to be Christ-like......nt become Christ......live Christ-like....follow the teaching of Christ.......follow the morals set up from Christ teachings.....Yes, we are sinners......but we can do better....We can be better......We must never put down the morals.........Apply Christ values into your everyday life......simple.....You cannot call yourself a Christ and be living like a pagan.......Both Wes and Jordan are right........JESUS Christ is the son of GOD....and also, we must follow the teachings from the word of GOD.......There is not debate about both statement.....Moral values is a what separate a Christians and humanity in general from chaos and anarchy........Practice what you preach........Morals is

[@kucutooms8685]

@regeneratus-l2w Yes, JESUS died for our sins.....this doesn't mean, we should not follow the morals from the teachings of the holy Bible........when u give your life to Christ, you become a born-again Christian, which basically means, you now, start from scratch and begin to follow the word of GOD.....if you are a fervent sinner before, u start working on yourself physically and spiritually. You start follow the morals from the teachings of the Word. Simple.....

[@adrianmiles7678]

But if ur Christian you do follow the word of man! You believe what was written in the bible which was written and corrupted by man, rather than getting all of ur direction directly from god like Jesus or Moses… I say corrupted because how can you reconcile that everyone is made in gods image yet gays are ostracised? Isn’t that Gods job to judge people not man?

[@kucutooms8685]

@adrianmiles7678 as for Homosexuality, the Bible is very clear on this... Homosexuality is a sin/abomination...why do people reject adultery but try to justify homosexuality.......very weird.....They r both sins......just as Pedophila, stealing, murder, killing and all kinds of other vices.....The holy Bible was written by holy men, taking into account, what they write from past scriptures plus, their prophecies as seen by them spiritually.....and Also the teachings of JESUS Christ......The word is constant......Man's intelligence is foolish before GOD........The fear of GOD is the beginning of wisdom......The Bible is a holy book, and not a novel......To understand and comprehend the word of GOD......seek and you shall find.....Fast and Pray and the holy Spirit would open your eyes to the full interpretation of his word.......Once again....Homosexuality is a sin of the flesh......It is man loving himself and as it is written in the holy book, men shall become lovers of themselves. The Law of creation is simple......GOD, Christ, Man, Woman and Children in that order.......We serve the Lord always.....by abiding by his words.....and the morals set forth from his word.......nt man-made inferior laws......

[@ronishchaudhary]

Jesus isn’t an archetype; Christ is.

[@blakebonecutter]

Jesus IS the Christ

[@doesthingswithcomputers]

You can’t get there on your own??? Just tanked original sin dude.

[@MrGilfred]

Jesus wouldn't critic moralism like you are thinking. Paul under inspiration of holy spirit taught that our own conscience will either accuse us or excuse us. This means if you are obeying by nature what is in your conscience then you are doing well even if you are never reached with the kingdom message or due to some disease or illness cannot accept Jesus as you savior. Or some other thing that would be a good reason why you don't accept Christ as savior. But as long as God through. What I am saying here is that you could be like Saul of Tarsus where you think you are doing the right thing. And your conscience says you are. But your loyalty might be misplaced then you would have a chance in that kingdom to make a choice either for God or man's rule. He wasn't condemning the Pharisees for living by high moral standards. Instead he was condemning them for the act that they were putting on. Along with their air of prominence. Where they get the best of everything and looked down on others as well. He wasn't critiquing the moral laws that God gave man to live by. the new testament also says that there are those that put on a display of godliness which the Pharisees did, but prove false to its power. Meaning it has no real transforming power in that person's life. They will live however they please regardless of what the bible really teaches. You can still follow in Jesus' footsteps to the best of your ability and that is counted as relative perfection by God. Because you are doing your best. You are still not earning salvation. Or the idea that you don't need a savior. If you went to the extreme with that then why bother trying to live by God's laws since you cannot perfectly live by them. That is not what the bible teaches. Instead the bible teaches that man can still be obedient to God's laws even though he is imperfect. As long as he/she is doing his/her best then that one will be in that kingdom either in heaven or on the earth. If Jesus wasn't the model for you to follow in his footsteps to the best of your ability then the bible would've never said that which it does. If it were true then it would fit in with just believe and you will be saved. Don't dare try at all. But the bible even says you can be a conqueror of the world similar to Christ, sure not perfectly but a relative perfect is good enough. The Mosaic law was what looked for perfection not the law of the Christ.

[@christobalmendoza9363]

The gayest thing ever is someone comparing about a positive outcome and attitude towards their religion. If not talking about their religion is better. Jordan Peterson shows in a psychological and metaphysical way the teaching of the Bible change lives to people WHO DONT BELIEVE to use the tools themselves eventually increasing their faith and interest in the Bible. Making them come to their own conclusion of the messiah, God, savior. The Bible is here to help the world and the free will of humans will choose how they want to worship God. It’s not his job to force something, also over half of his audience don’t believe Jesus is God. So starting it off with that would detour a lot people. The biggest thing is bringing normal people closer to teaching of God and bible. Why would you complain about that

[@Seiv_on]

Why obsess about one story one book 2000 years, he served a purpose he was correcting somthing of that time? People's obsession due to man's misinterpretation or teaching of it gives it a bad name.

[@anthonyq2354]

Peterson is getting closer. He just called jesus God but it seems he means god is the highest organising principle and jesus is the best example in history that embodies it. Thats not Christianity. Jesus claimed divinity, died, rose from the dead physically. I might be wrong but i dont know if believes that when he says we dont need evidence. Yes we do! If christ isnt raised our faith is in vain. If christ isnt raised its not even a very important account

[@conorgillespie7832]

Jordan Peterson is a psychologist and philosopher, Not a preacher. It makes since he sees Christianity through his own personal specialist lens.

[@7gmeister]

I was glad for this exchange because I’ve had some contention with JP for a while I’m really glad for his support of Christianity but not his involvement with clergy and his understanding of the Gospel I feel like grass really doing an injustice to the topic and He doesn’t claim to be a Christian and the Bible is something that’s revealed by God to His people so when someone who isn’t a believer and doesn’t possess the Holy Spirit there’s going to be a disparity in the way they view it and he definitely tends to view it through a dark lens

[@somebodywhocares9293]

Jesus of Nazereth... Thats in palestine Coincidence?

[@calebfontenot6248]

If you guys wanted a real biblical scholar as a guest…look up Tovia Singer.

[@madboyShawn]

You may not agree with him but Peterson has made many men religious that would not he otherwise

[@intello8953]

You mean Peterson made many westerners more religious right? Many parts of the world are already SUPER religious haha

[@whynot1548]

This is why I can't stand these "Christian Apologists." Among other things lol They're always trying to get Peterson to conform to the one dimensional perspective of their faith. The very way of thinking that has made their faith increasingly undesirable

[@lapisexulis]

Hahaha Wes's face in the Thumb nail is very archetypal 😂

[@lulumoon6942]

Academic on Academic crime bro! 😮

[@starshockey11]

His argument using the Bible against moralism is weak at best. Jesus is in fact an archetype- his values and embodiment are the most logical argument for what it means to be a Christian.

[@GospelMessage-t9o]

Be quiet.

[@Bonobo_JoJo]

Literally no one but Jesus himself is capable of living a sinless life, and thus we need a savior. That is the entire message of the gospels. Jesus is that savior and paid for all of our sins with his blood. To say “Jesus was perfect, we just have to be perfect too” is just an utter indulgence in the human ego to think any of us could ever be perfect.

[@starshockey11]

Who ever said that? I know I didnt nor did Peterson

[@Bonobo_JoJo]

@@starshockey11 what is the moralism argument then…

[@starshockey11]

Exactly my question hahh it’s not a logical argument. Huff is basically arguing in favor of the dogma of the Bible - which Peterson doesn’t necessarily disagree with . He just doesn’t prioritize it in the way that Huff does because it’s not logical.

[@NeverSurrenderYourQuest]

“You can’t do enough to live up to the standard that God holds you to, and if you keep striving, you’re actually going to wear yourself out and be exhausted.” That sounds like an argument that nobody should ever strive to meet that standard, and, if that’s true, why does the standard exist at all? So no one can meet the standard, and no one should try, and Jesus isn’t a moral example. It sounds like he’s saying we all should just surrender our lives to gluttony, greed, sloth, lust, pride, envy, and wrath. What am I misunderstanding?

[@MattAyars]

Jesus is challenging individuals to acknowledge that they are deeply flawed, and to trust in him for rescue from self. As a response to that trust, Jesus pours out the Holy Spirit into the heart of the individual and the love of God is shed abroad internally through His personal presence restored. That love restored that flows from a reconciled relationship with God is the whole point.

[@drednaught608]

You're not misunderstanding anything. I believe the point is that you can't and that that faith gives the desire to do good things anyways out of relief and deep appreciation of no longer having to carry the burden of our own evils. When free of your own darkness you naturally just do good things because you can't help but to want to do so.

[@SoliDeoGloriadeusvult]

Doing good is useful if you are reconciled with God through faith in Jesus’ sacrifice. If you are trying to do good to earn your way to heaven you will die trying and never reach it.

[@MattAyars]

@@NeverSurrenderYourQuest From Dallas Willard: “Confess any attempts to become like Jesus simply by trying hard to do so. Reflect on the results (or lack of, especially sins that never seem to go away). Consider the energy you have used and the results you’ve experienced. Then, feast for a moment on this idea: “Christ in you, the hope of glory” (Colossians 1:27, niv). Dwell on that thought. If you wish, ask God to do this work within you. Then ask him to show you the next small step (or two or three) you need to make to cooperate in bringing this about in your life. If you’re not yet convinced he’ll show you, ask him for that faith.”

[@dmc_97]

You just asked the question that is wrestled with in detail in all of the Epistles. It’s exactly what the early Christian movement had to come to terms with after Jesus. Worth a read, as it’s still highly relevant today. The TLDR is that a heart truly committed to Christ cannot help but act differently than the world. We still fail, but we strive to live up to the example we were given. Someone who isn’t trying, who is completely undifferentiated in their actions and behaviors from the world, isn’t, in that moment, a true follower of Christ. Great question, and hope this was at least remotely helpful in response.

[@chrisfrancis6101]

So now we is attacking Jordan Peterson about how he views the Bible ... Blahaha... Reallllyyyyy! Nothing humble in this guy, pure arrogance! God is watching lil Wes! Just wow!

[@theoldman5896]

This guy is being pushed like crazy by the algorithm. Must be a fed.

[@keithcampbell7820]

Big issues with this. Jordan Peterson has opened doors to understanding God that the church never wanted to acknowledge. I believe Wes is conflating legalism with moralism as well.

[@blackwiddowflainfrost6705]

He didn't open a door, he covered the door with a cloak and is attempting to understand God through the light shining through the door. Maybe this would work for deism. But what you are meant to do with the Christian God, is to take the hand He offers. The salvation He bequeathed through grace. Peterson treats God like an abstract idea to explore. The Christian God is a person.

[@keithcampbell7820]

@ , Should have stopped earlier. Jn. 4:24 “God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth”. Show me one thing Dr Peterson has misrepresented.

[@getasimbe]

You're exactly right, he's conflating legalism with moralism. I was having a hard time putting my finger on it but yep. The example he used doesn't match Peterson's MO at all in my opinion

[@anonymousalexander6005]

@@keithcampbell7820Salvation is by reconstructing your relationship with your Father in heaven, I don’t recall any single time Peterson has ever clearly communicated that and I’ve watched a lot of KZbin clips of him. Maybe you could share with us a clip of him communicating that and not just dancing around the question?

[@keithcampbell7820]

@ , You’re changing the narrative. Real quick, the charge was made that JP is a moralist. By Wes Huff in regard to Peterson not providing a statement of faith in Christ. Now here’s my question, where do you find that I can command someone to provide their statement of faith? Read the question closely.

[@daysofnoah]

I know the answer and it isn't pleasant.

[@anas-432]

God is one he’s not a trinity, all the prophets came with this message.

[@Adrian-er2qo]

Start a livestream and debate/discuss with me on this topic. I hope u don’t believe in tawhid cause that’s gonna backfire on you.

[@anas-432]

@ moses said oh israel your god is one, all the prophets said that from adam to muhammed peace be upon them all, i dont have to debate with you, if you search for the truth you will find it, you just gotta have an open heart.

[@Adrian-er2qo]

@@anas-432 one what? You realize trinitarians affirm the belief of One God. You’re just adding the “person”. Show me where in the Bible it says God is one…PERSON. Just one. The same Bible you’re quoting has the Father calling the Son God and the Creator Hebrews 1:8-12. But that ones not true huh?? Anything that doesn’t agree with you is corrupt. John 10:30-33 even the people knew Jesus claimed to be God. Would’ve been the perfect time for him to object. Also why can your god appear as a little man with no beard and a red dress? I can pull up all the authentic sources. And can a real prophet of god get possessed? If so, show me one prophet before mhmd.

[@anas-432]

@@Adrian-er2qo i don’t know the nonsense you are talking about, like i said i don’t have to debate with you, search for the truth and you’ll find it if your heart is pure.

[@Adrian-er2qo]

@@anas-432 you just said your prophet is nonsense? “I saw my Lord in the form of a young man, beardless (amrad) with short curly hair (ja’d) and clothed in a red garment.” (Narrated by Ahmad b. Hanbal in Tabarani; AUTHENTICATED BY AHMAD B. HANBAL in Creed 3 citing isnad, ‘Abd al-Samad b. Yahya in Tabaqat al-Hanabila, 1:218, al-Marrudhi (d. 888) in Tabaqat, 3:81, Ibn ‘Aqil in Makdisi, Ibn ‘Aqil, 130; Ibn ‘Adi al-Qattan, al-Kamil fi du’afa’ al-rijal, 3:49-50, al-Daraqutni, Kitab al-Ru’ya, 332-333, 356-357; al-Tabarani, al-Mu’jam al-Kabir, 25:143; SAHIH BY ABU L-HASAN B. BASHSHAR in Ibn Abi Ya’la, Tabaqat, 2:59; Abu Ya’la, al-Muta’mad, 85; ACCEPTED BY IBN TAYMIYYA in Bayan Tablis al-Jahmiyya, 7:192-198, 290)

[@SteveWortham]

I appreciate this conversation as well but wanted to cover the moralist comment. I believe Jesus was both a great moral example and our savior. And I believe Wesley’s interpretation of the sermon on the mount actually misses out on much of what Jesus teaches. Here’s a challenging Messianic Jewish message that covers the sermon on the mount: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJbTl554pLZ1f80si=vyHDFWfI6xLEZDv6

[@DareusTyn]

Good people don't go to heaven. Saved people do.

[@SteveWortham]

@@DareusTyn Agreed. But the lessons Jesus teaches about how to live and how to behave do not have to do with salvation. It has to do with God's desire for each of us to seek redemption, grow, and essentially be better at loving God and loving people. Salvation is simpler. He died and was resurrected, essentially proving He was indeed the Son of God, the Messiah, and giving us eternal life if we believe in Him. I'll put it another way. The sermon on the mount teaches how to interpret the law and what God wants us to aspire to. It's not a, "Do this, or go to hell" situation. It's like a loving parent giving us a guide for how to honor them and live our best lives. It's strange to me that a common interpretation of the sermon on the mount is that the standard of the law is so high that it's impossible to uphold, therefore Jesus died for everyone so we don't have to obey it. First of all, the law was never meant for salvation. Jews didn't even believe this. Secondly, this interpretation doesn't really fit with what Jesus said. In fact, I'd say it completely ignores everything he said in the sermon. Notice his words at the end of the sermon: "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock." - Matthew 7:24 (TLV)

[@DareusTyn]

@SteveWortham we agree. 😃

[@SteveWortham]

Oh, another finer point. The sermon on the mount was addressed to an audience of Jews. Jesus cites the law in his sermon and upholding the law was part or the Sinaitic covenant which applies to Jews. As gentiles (myself included), I'm not under the Sinaitic covenant. But it's not because Jesus made the Sinaitic covenant obsolete. Rather, it's because I'm not Jewish. This idea fits under Distinction Theology and it explains a lot of the differences in teachings when we see Jesus speak to the Jews and later Paul speaking to the Gentiles. Jacob Fronczak does a good job of describing this concept in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/imTaf5eCq7GnepI

[@arunnair7584]

I lent my ear to his entire discourse with Joe, and not once did he let slip a word on how the central themes of the Bible might trace their lineage to the lore or sacred musings of elder creeds and ancient myths.

[@davidanderson6055]

I don't think they do. The closest he got to discussing the subject was about the flood and gilgamesh. He said it's the same area and their are collective memories of events in the past they are all discussing..

[@kevin084life]

1:55

[@Oram702]

meditation time ha,

[@anthonykaye3292]

@1:32 incorrect. You still need the Teacher of Righteousness to guide you to God and salvation. Christians revert to this Pauline-Marcion false hood, you can only be saved by "faith", well embracing faith is an ACTION of repentance, and embracing faith ARE ACTIONS YOU MUST DO!!! So there is some things you must Do to save yourself. All salvation is the individual choosing to take actions to save themselves...and Jesus required "Repentance, Forgiveness, and making atonements" and DO his teachings. You still have to obey God to receive salvation.

[@BKRenOsirus]

Although the desire to be righteous is important, it's not exactly the point of Christianity my guy. Christianity is not about putting a stop to sin, it's about loving Jesus so that you do not want to sin. And thats the point Wes was making. What Jordan does is he makes it seem as if you should follow a perfect being in order to be perfect yourself and be glorified, but the point is to glorify Jesus only. Cause it is Jesus that earns you a place in heaven not yourself.

[@bryanarevalo9570]

I’m sorry, I just want to make sure/make you aware you’re not saying that the man talking is incorrect in which case you’d been misinterpreting what he said as you’re agreeing with him. He was saying what he thinks Peterson’s opinion is.

[@DanBeLiving]

everyone thinks their religion in the right one .... kindaaaaa funny

[@lapisexulis]

Goft to love Joes Subltle "Hmmms "😂 🤘 He clearly disagrees but still lets wes cook (himself) 🍳 A true student of the mysteries who is willing to expand his consciousness!

[@Gv_paradisecity171]

JESUS DIDNT DIE FOR YOU SIN, HE WAS MORDERED BUT “THEM” you know who…

[@LeeHanma-p2e]

To be honest you just don’t understand Jordan Peterson

[@Logan91S]

Wes perspective on this is closed minded. From experience, people who say they believe in his flesh and blood but fail to understand the concepts of Christ and what he represents, are no better for what they think is belief. By the way.. Paul is the one who created the idea that you must believe he came in the flesh. Jesus called us only to believe his words and ideas.. and in doing so we believe and trust in him. I believe he came in the flesh by the way. Just think this perspective is closed minded and silly.

[@danhamilton7064]

The physical resurrection of Jesus Christ is Peterson's stumbling block.

[@TimLang-x1g]

Not persuasive at all

[@natemarlowe534]

Was not trying to persuade you brother just show you the truth. You choose where you go in the end

[@Slims00]

​@@natemarlowe534your "truth" is dogmatic nonsense

[@m444ss]

i think Peterson's "issue" in this regard is his intellect. i suspect his iq is super-high, and that affects how he thinks about everything

[@andrewholland21]

I don’t think Peterson claims Christianity like this guy does. Which makes his rebuke simply “he’s not Christian enough for me” which is silly.

[@nicholascolagiovanni7158]

It is nonsensical to debate something that cannot be proven one way or the other.

[@elaigwuotokpa2420]

I think Peterson's view on that topic is right and Wes's view is similar to the pharisees in the sense that he's now taking the teaching of just believing in Jesus will save you .This is now like the new law of this age and times.. which is what Jesus came to rectify by him saying he is the way...

[@Skeletal33]

I love Jordan P, but he’s only been reading the Bible for a year or so, and already acts like a scholar in the subject.

[@LeeHanma-p2e]

Dude this man has an entire biblical series of lectures dedicated to the books in the Bible lol you have no idea what you are talking about

[@drewlayda7358]

The point most missed when people reduce Yeshua to “an” archetype is that he HAD TO fully embody two archetypes: the bin Joseph messiah (suffering servant) & the bin David messiah (conquering king). This also requires a Judaic understanding of what a Hebraic messiah is and what a Hebraic messiah could never be according to late second temple Yahwhists. Yahweh doesn’t “do” demigods, in Hebraic tradition “demigods” have another name: “Nephilim”. Genesis is not ambiguous on the matter… If a Nephilem found its way into our plane, Yahweh would have likely made it start raining… really hard… “Hear O’ Israel, the Lord thy God is ONE” Sorry trinitarians, Jesus assumed the seat of glory at the right hand of God’s Throne in heaven - not the throne… says it repeatedly in end Gospels and Judaic Epistles… The level of Greco Roman distortions inherent in modern Pauline traditions is enough to which modern “Christians” are actually “Saulians”… because whether they believe Saul of Tarsis outranked Yeshua (& Law & Prophets, therefore also outranking YHWH) their theology & tradition reflects this is so. 1°-2° of misalignment may not sound like much, but over time it adds up to a completely missed target.

[@INSIGHTpodcast1008]

Peterson huff theyr both miles away, clueless, completely clueless, trust me, they both miles away 😂😂😂😂😂

[@fredwpf]

Theories theories and theories - Religion should give down to earth practical solutions and advices if not it's all rubbish.....

[@Nashvillain10SE]

Evidently, you've not read the Bible.

[@fredwpf]

@ Evidently, you are not those who look at the practicality of the bible as depicted by Jordan Peterson. If Jesus was son a god..good..if he die and resurrected..good for him…but where are the practical advices that the stories in the bible helps us go through day to day struggles? This is why most religion or denominations have failed. Whether Jesus was alive or not I am not sure..but listening to Jordan Peterson book on God helps me face day to day struggles in life…you can go and debate for hours and hours if Jesus want an alien, whether he was this and that whether he went to India..good for you but ain’t helping poor me to go through my daily struggles…

[@Nashvillain10SE]

@@fredwpf Aww, you poor little thing being the only one who has to deal with life's difficulties. 🎻

[@zjohnson22]

wes hoff doesn’t seem to understand that the archetype is what matters more. There’s jesus and then there’s christ consciousness. he said the kingdom of heaven is within all of you. Notice the within. All is one, separation is an illusion.

[@ChristopherChaney-nw9bx]

Wes your wrong You obviously only seen a had full of JP’ clips. He clearly has been open about his belief as well as the struggle to believe. That is not moralism !

[@barryboland3031]

MAN MADE FAIRYTALE

[@Sam-ed7jz]

"Fish mutated into people."

[@Adrian-er2qo]

@@Sam-ed7jz 😂😂😂😂 and they genuinely believe it!!

[@ethanramos8130]

I'm with Peterson

[@jacqueslucas8616]

Talk to one Christian and u get one interpretation….talk to another and u will get another….so on and so on….

[@bsting601]

They are all interpretations of it ! If people took every word at its value , it would be a messed up world ! Its one sick book

[@tylercafe1260]

Have you not done what man is capable of? The Holy Bible's literary themes are 100% about forgiveness. If you think that's sick then just have no media literacy. I'm not superstitious but jackasses like you make me sick. You never read the Bible have you? The torah? The Quran? What's your critique on all three of these books referencing each other? Why is God "evil"? Why are humans better than god? Moreover, given the context of real history like the Atheist Party vs Feminist Christians reveals the flip-flop nature of Atheists. Feminism wanted to introduce the Age of Consent but Atheists said that it was not logical to have to wait for someone "to be of age". If she's capable of producing children then let her. That's why drinking laws exist because Feminist Christians believe children deserve to be protected and to preserve their innocence. Atheist at the time openly did not care. In other words Atheism was the first Political opposition devoid of religion who was in full support of child brides. Gross to even be called an Atheist as that's basically straight admitting you're okay with pedophilia. Modern Atheists try to fight for the Political Party but why? They always claim the Church corrupts the Government but in my opinion it's the exact opposite. Governments make their Religions their Puppet but the only way to reclaim the churches from the Government is to have legitimate faith. Unfortunately we're so brainwashed in America people say Trump is like Hitler when Biden has literally fueled Genocide in Gaza since Day 1. You do know the entire Palestine-Isreal War exists because the Jews have been trying for their entire lives to claim Jesus was never real? So being Anti-Bible makes you more akin to an Isreali-Jew rather than a freethinking Atheist. Food for thought when you try to rally up your Nazi brethren.

[@kobold7466]

humans are sick and we have to learn sick lessons to be healthy. life is suffering and through suffering, character. through character, meaning. through meaning, joy.

[@bsting601]

@@kobold7466 I can say it easier mate , life lessons !

[@lapisexulis]

What day is the sabbath again? 🤭

[@lapisexulis]

Ok mr -Jesus isnt a moral example , Jesus is literal. So i can be an arogant condescending prick , i dont need to be christ like because i know christ (literally ) ~Wes huff

[@AntiSewingCircleChristianity]

Jesus is more than a moral example. He’s the source of the morality. He is God. JP tries to extract morality from the Jesus story without addressing Him for what He claimed about Himself. He tries to derive WHAT’S(some wisdom and moral statements) from Jesus without confronting the WHO then working backwards. That He is God incarnated as man from the Virgin Mary to die and go into hades and resurrect then go back up, for the sake of man. He’s missing the point completely.

[@RoosterNutz12]

​@@AntiSewingCircleChristianity Jesus is not God incarnated into flesh. That falls under the heresy of docetism. Jesus is not God himself. He was sent by God. He prays to and worships God.

[@Harley_2023_richieg]

@@RoosterNutz12 You are wrong! Of course you have never read the Bible so there's that. If you have you must have missed the part where Jesus says, "I and the Father are One." Jn 10:30

[@RoosterNutz12]

@@Harley_2023_richieg Jesus also tells the disciples to be one with him in the same manner as he is with the Father. Are you saying the disciples are also God? Christ is sent by God. Christ worships God. 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' Who is your God? Jesus's God. Who is your Father? Jesus's Father.

[@Harley_2023_richieg]

@@RoosterNutz12 "Jesus' prayer reveals his desire for his followers to experience a deep unity, mirroring the unity between himself and the Father. This unity among believers is intended to be a visible sign to the world, demonstrating the truth of God's love and the divine mission of Jesus. The phrase "may they also be in us" suggests that believers are invited to participate in the life and love of the Trinity, a deep and abiding relationship with God In essence, Jesus' prayer in John 17:21 emphasizes the importance of unity among believers as a reflection of the divine unity within the Trinity, a sign to the world, and a call to live in a way that reflects the transformative power of God's love."

[@mihalysuba9432]

:)

[@stevenpike7530]

Charlatan, snake oil…reference Stephen Fry, Ricky Gervais…

[@jxknight1980]

More annoying shit.

[@Adrian-er2qo]

You still stayed and watched, and even commented! Did it bother that much?