What Happened To Lillia? - Why NO ONE Plays Her | League of Legends

Many of the new champions in 2020-2022 have had very successful initial launches, featuring well over a 10% pick rate for several months and it usually holds long after their initial hype dies down. Some of them don't and for today, we're gonna find out why that's the case for Lillia: The Bashful Bloom!
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#Lillia #LoL #WhyNoOnePlays

[@notasmith8163]

Lilia stood by me when I was bad at League. I will stand by her when she is off-Meta. Fear the Deer.

[@internationalarmy3984]

*Insert Russian Deer meme*

[@wesker8814]

W mindset

[@praimi13]

Unless you're graves We all know what happens on bambi

[@Dead1Gam]

In Lilia we trust

[@duwanglover3424]

Ok Claude

[@doodlegarbage6769]

Petition to make Vars say Lillia's W ability name.

[@Stephen-kh4zw]

I’d sign that.

[@Silly_Shadow_Milk]

WATCH OUT! EEP!

[@lillyie]

he finally said it on the "best Ws video"

[@Dexuz]

@@lillyie Thanks

[@Gbv61022]

As a main Lillia, with 150k mastery points, I must say that I appreciate that Lillia is not a common pick, so I can enjoy playing her and dominate with her better.

[@loopa9283]

For real

[@mairo4464]

Same here

[@grav6723]

Yes sir

[@Rexulub]

I kinda started to main her in the top line. I can use her to deal with stuff i can't kill with another champions

[@xxargonautxx9790]

I thought when pro players were picking her that she would get gutted, she survived that besides having the ult nerf, but when they gave her the mini rework i could see they wanted to help her soloq WR. She is a lot better then before the mini rework. But glad she not a pick and ban champ for pros, will always pick her or my Warwick for jungle. Love playing her.

[@twizzleddoggo]

Lillia was the first champ for me that felt good. I finally found someone who i wanted to play no matter the matchup no matter the meta. She can go top or mid or jungle and ive even carried as lillia support. I love this silly little deer so much and im glad no one plays her because i KNOW shes so annoying to fight.

[@spe02001]

Make illaoi crazy. Moving so fast for her do anything.

[@dragonjo7550]

i honestly love playing her support or in certain matchups. nevermind she dominates in aram, if you're up against something like a teemo or illaoi she just does so well

[@kylebaryonyx9478]

My solution would be a damage reduction that affects champs already affected by her passive. She could take a certain percentage less damage from champs that are burning from her passive, that way she still needs to engage to be most effective, but her duelling gets stronger so when she re-engages she doesn't get blown up

[@tomasyracheta1150]

More ways to prock the sleep like seriously a dream based champion and only haveing her ult cause sleep. thinking of a sleep debuff like hitting all abilitys if they have the drowsy debuff with 3 stacks kinda like brand if you are able to hit all 3 ablitys

[@whoknows7415]

I literally thought of the same exact thing except I clarified that the damage reduction scales with her level so it would stay relevant at all phases of the game.

[@Gorecatto]

@@tomasyracheta1150 the problem is that sleep itself is extremely strong, and having that available to a scaling jungler so early is bound to have problems Not only it stops you in place , it increases the damage of abilities. There is a reason why Zoe is so strong when she literally has basically 2 damaging abilities

[@zeldiste5980]

Great idea !

[@52blue72]

Honestly just swap her w and ult. Her w is now a point and click single target sleep that only works on targets she's hit by three or more attacks or abilities (of lilia's) recently. Then we make her ult (old w) do extra damage if the target is slept. Now she has an extra kiting tool that act's as a get off me and a way to secure kills during ganks.

[@basicallysubhuman8823]

I still play her. I love her hit and run playstyle, speeding around the rift being uncatchable and still doing lots of damage. I love her voicelines and personality too. She’s just so fun for me lol

[@ctrl_g]

Same. I love to boop my enemies and runaway, making them extremely frustrated and getting free kills. Another thing I love is pulling of an amazing multiman sleep. A pentakill on Lillia is extremely satisfying.

[@legoshirocha]

I still remembered how my Lilia got overshadowed by Yasuo 2.0 and didn’t get any cinematic !!!

[@lok4890]

Te delató el auto corrector amigo

[@legoshirocha]

@@lok4890 ah 🤯

[@mathematiciantim3439]

I currently main Lillia and have been a Lillia OTP in the past. I can say with quite a lot of confidence that most of Lillia’s problems are solved by not going either full tank or full squishy. Going with a Riftmaker setup with Demonic embrace and tank items like Deadman’s is absolutely the best way to play her and completely solves her problem of being incredibly squishy by just brute forcing her to be tanky.

[@oetic5016]

Interesting perception, spamming her upon picking her up I had thought of it!

[@sharkll]

it did not solve mine my build was liandrys,rylas, frozen heart,fimbulwinter and i was fighting twitch , i used ult and perfectly hit the center of her w then q didnt even kill a squishy champ.

[@ignacioruhe2987]

Ap mythic, ionian boots, cosmic, deadman’s, force of nature and rabbaddon. With relentless hunter.

[@dravendraven1471]

Draven Draven likes Lilia when she is in my games. When her BONK just decimates the skull of *zreal is really satisfying.

[@fishstick1900]

Marshallah

[@hotpants_russia_z]

Gigachad Draaaaaaaven 😎😎😎😎💪💪💪💪 vs ultra beta virgin gayzreal 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤢🤢🤢🤢

[@pietromancinelli6013]

Marshallah

[@sebaagers]

I love when *zreal is censored

[@paulbalanescu4251]

Read th quaran brother

[@DAN-gf3qx]

i have been playing lillia since her release, and i can say my favorite thing about playing her is that she DOES NOT have an abilitie to protect her, there is no magic button that will save your life, its just you and your move speed, this might sound bad, but it is so satisfying to dodge everything just by moving instead of using the "outplay button" that most skirmisher/assassin have, it makes me feel that I did an amazing play, not the champion. I have 3 tips for new lillia players that i think will make you enjoy the character a lot more: 1. try ignite instead of flash, i know it sounds like i am inting but hear me out, lillia doesn't have any immediate cc or damage that require flash, the only advantages that flash gives you is a 5 minute cooldown escape in the earlygame and easier 5 man ultimates in the late game. ignite allows you to get early kills thanks to the extra damage is basically like hitting an extra q, negates healing (there is a lot of healing right now), reveals enemies, and it has a lower cooldown, so trading your ignite for an enemy flash is always worth, also, it doesn't wake enemies up, so feel free to burn sleeping enemies. 2. stop forcing a 5 man ultimate, use your ult to assessinate 1 or 2 players and then go get some objectives, 5 man ultimates are super cool but it is not your only win condition, you can always just sleep one enemy carry, one shot him with your ignite, and then fight a 5v4, sleeping fewer people also has the advantage that it makes it easier for your team to focus one guy. 3. There is no "official" build, try different runes and items, some times dark harvest is good, sometimes conqueror is better, and sometimes predator is the best, try different stuff against different champions and see what works for you.

[@shieldgenerator7]

thanks for this. i've found that flash is basically useless bc 90% of the time i die immediately after using it. ill try ignite

[@Biditchoun]

I don't really agree with flash being useless, as it basically nullifies your chances to only be able to get a big combo. Yes it won't happen each game, but even just catching an adc off-guard with q flash r can be invaluable. However you could replace it easily with ghost for sure. I don't really like ignite on her, as you usually can chase one more second and land another q, but that's a matter of taste. I definitely agree with the other tips though :D

[@shieldgenerator7]

@@Biditchoun well the ignite is also for anti-healing, which makes her DOT damage even more dangerous

[@Biditchoun]

That's a very valid point

[@spe02001]

I start to play her. Maybe I will try ignite. I got invaded almost every game since I start playing her. Therefore I usually ward my opposite Camps.

[@giorgiozeniquel3153]

You should be aware that Lillia was specifically designed to be a niche champion, a pocket pick, played by only a few. She's basically hitting the expected mark. And as a jungler, she's not that low, too many of them have low pick rates

[@internationalarmy3984]

She’s a scary champion damage wise

[@KinPlatano]

@@internationalarmy3984 true but you need to hit the sweet spot on q and w

[@internationalarmy3984]

@@KinPlatano so she’s like Darius and Aatrox?

[@inaee2661]

@@internationalarmy3984 pretty much

[@pyrokatarina]

@@internationalarmy3984 yeah but a less tanky one. U cant tell me that darius and aatrox are immobile because darius builds deadmans and ghost, while aatrox receives movement speed on his ult and has a dash

[@nickanimated1012]

I always felt like lilia's w was the most underwhelming part of her kit. A mini dash that kinda slows her down becuase it is so slow compared to her movespeed... If her w could act like a mini janna ult in the sense that everyone hit by the w also gets knocked back could be a way to make her more reliable

[@BronzeAnalystTM]

I like that idea, I would also like to make it faster depending on movement speed like Rammus Q+Ult interaction. Imagine poking and kiting with Q, get full movement speed and blast them with a W from a bit farther away. It feels so weird going so fast and losing tempo just to W. This change and the knock down Janna like W would reward good players! Nice idea, I liked that

[@jamiesadf5829]

I have to agree. I like lillia quite a bit but i find myself just not using her w if I don't have to. It slows you down when you could just hit q every 1.5 seconds while moving at mach 4. Its basically only there to combo with her ult on a single target,

[@hj-lg3ys]

absolutely agreed thats exactly what i was thinking

[@SK-df1iw]

Another annoying part of her W is that since that microdash is still considered a dash, it is blocked by Poppy W. It's really annoying to deal with since it really doesn't feel like a dash at all when that "dash" is slowing u down.

[@Rabid_Ferret]

Her w isn't meant to be spammed, thats the whole idea. Imagine taking insane fuckin amounts of true damage from a deer that's moving at mach 3 and dodging all your skillshots. That would jus be completely broken, plus if it was spammable then that would make the whole complaint about her being close range even worst. There are so many abilities in the game that basically rely on an ultimate in order to be used, lillia's w is no exception.

[@nideer]

IMO, after the items changes in 2021 preseason, her core item (liandrys) no longer gave hp, making her way squishier than the other duelists, at the point that riot needed to gave her a passive sustain, since the new liandrys came, people just go with the standart lillia build (dark harvester + double mask) and expect it to work every single game, this champion is so versitile with the items she can build but no one seems to try new stuff and just complain about whatever counterplay her, if you're against a comp with 2 tanks with hard cc and an assassin that one shot you, what do you think liandrys is supposed to do? try to go conquer with Riftmaker + Fronzen heart and/or Spirit visage instead of complaining about dying without being able to move. if you're against 3 adcarrys/mages you can't even keep close to them to properly use liandrys, try running ludens and one shot'em before they kill you instead of complaining about being outranged.

[@kingofgrunder5494]

This guy is so damn true. Experiment with your items people! Lillia with some tank Legendary items is super legit.

[@nsreturn1365]

yeah, but why should i do that when i can pick diana in both situations, have faster clear, better duelling, and better rech to mages can take drag solo, iam sorry lilia has just no point being played besides we need ap jgl, and even then there are better options

[@TheArenabros]

Diamond player here. Gave this a try went 4 up 1 down. You man are a genius

[@ezed8748]

Yeah, thats true and you can even use the crown... but liandry is so fun on her man i want to use liandry only for the funny "haha burn" thing

[@wisecrawfish3801]

Man I can't lie, I'm still at the point of discovering you can build Riftnaker on her

[@xox-lh6fh]

The most frustrating thing about playing lillia is when you hit a perfect ult but your support Janna just auto attacks the adc, right before your bonk goes off and they get away. I think it would be cool if lillia would get some kind of percent damage reduction the more stacks of her Q passive she has, what means that as long she is fighting and running around she is hard to kill but as soon as the movement speed wears off she would be back to being a squishy carry again.

[@kevinlopez227]

For some reason not many people knows how to play around the sleep mechanic, the same scenario happens to me when I play Zoe, but i think is worst with Lillia because is an ULTIMATE wasted

[@sandromaspindzelashvili5767]

How about 5% damage reduction for each enemy she has affected by passive? Or a flat boost to her armor and mr Maybe? So like weaker 1v1 but better in teamfights

[@bmsonic7468]

@@sandromaspindzelashvili5767 How about 3% mitigation for each stack, stacking on unique champions hit, and at max stacks (4-5) she gains an additional 5%? Totaling 20% DR if she gets a five man on her Q? A lot of time I'll try to flash Q --> R to engage fights, but most of the time, when I try to get out I'll get nuked. Maybe that's too strong but it will help her with being able to initiate a fight while not giving her OP DR in a 1v1 fight.

[@spe02001]

@@bmsonic7468 She just doesn’t have the sustain to engage the fight. It just better engaging after enemies CCed wasted.

[@Lieverando]

I basically onetrick lillia and agree with most of your statements in this video. She is a very niche champion and a very hard one to play, because messing up often means death because you are very squishy with the popular liandris build. Lillias lategame damage on full ap is insane, but you get killed with 2 auto attacks by an adc so she heavily relies on zhonyas and flash to be relevant. This is why a lot of challenger players and a part of the community, myself included, like to go another build wich fixes most of her weaknesses. Besides AP lillias damage scales really hard with abillity haste, because her relatively high base damage + the burn allow you to still deal a lot of damage if you just hit your q very often while staying alive. Conq + Riftmaker Frozen heart and spirit visage/cosmic drive make you very hard to kill an catch, while you dish out a lot of damage and cant get oneshot anymore, which makes your damage and sleep potentail a LOT more consistent. It still requires good kiting but it works really fawntastic and tankiness especially early in the game gets the job done and allows you to skirmish very long and snowball hard. If your fed get an mejais in there and deer lord, your unstoppable. In my opinion this is the way lillia is supposed to play right now and it just feels natural an nice. A part why this build is so much better is that the current ap items (as vars mentioned) arent as good for lillia. New demonics is really bad, liandries gives no tankiness and zhonyas as a basically must have second buy is extremely good for ult plays but delays a lot of your damage. Maybe if the items change her ap build will get better but as it is the true bruiser/tank build outshines it. If you are thinking about picking up lillia: do it! Nobody plays her because she is broken, but because she is extremely fun. I wouldnt be playing league as much anymore if she didnt exist. Zooming around the map, kiting enemys and getting clutch plays with your ult feels so satisfying, I almost always have fun playing her, even when we are losing. And her being unpopular is a big + for that, because you are almost never banned/contestet and many people dont know your damage. So good luck have fawn in your games!

[@danickjulien2309]

That's it! She doesnt need to be changed, people just need to build her better.

[@jesperege8236]

I agree with build diversity is important, but i think riftmaker rush makes you low on mana, and if you were to rush frozen heart, you would have zero dmg. I used to play with a hard burst build some time ago, but they changed a lor of the items so its not viable anymore

[@XX-br5bn]

For me the solution is all done Just add to her passive that she gains armor and magic resistance for each affected enemy And if only riot could give her back her movement speed at the beginning of the game I'd miss it I understood that it was a champion of endgame that people don't like to play against and it's sad (I don't count the number of times I got insulted playing lillia)

[@nekoschar6170]

pre mini rework lillia was 10000 times better than post rework lillia killed a lot of my enjoyment for the champ

[@amandaslough125]

The movement speed was too OP in pro play so it had to go. Even though the rework did like nothing for her number wise, her playrate was like exactly the same.

[@nekoschar6170]

@@amandaslough125 yeah but i really dont care about pro play i care about fun champions being turned into boring simple champs

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

Lilia feels like a very extreme overcorrection of other high speed high tempo champs such as Hecarim and Kayn but like you mentioned, AP Bruiser itemization is utter dogwater. even before the item rework in S11 made things even worse like how Mordekaiser is still recovering from the lost of his combo of Liandry/Rylais/Protobelt and it’s a similar story for similar champs.

[@neveahphillips5610]

This, she feels like Hecarim but with less of the “swing your dick around” factor, sure you can clear fast, and once you get a lead it’s very easy to extend those leads and generate overwhelming tempo (just like Hec), but she can’t just slam her ass into people and force crazy plays that still have room for finesse the way Hecarim can. In other words, she’s too much finesse too little force, whilst Hecarim is the much better opposite.

[@Wallynator23]

mage items are cancerously overpowered. Her build path leaves her with like 3k hp, idk why mages get so much value out of cheap items

[@spe02001]

@@Wallynator23 most mage can’t scale AP on AA. I think that’s why.

[@Wallynator23]

@@spe02001 you're totally right, but I think riot overcompensated them for it, I just don't see how picking an ad mid laner is ever more beneficial than an ap safe one.

[@bmanm2004]

They could make lillia’s E have a slight push back displacement so that it can interrupt dashes. That would make her a lot harder to get on top of During team fights and skirmishes especially by other high mobility champs. That would in turn make her feel less vulnerable without getting rid of any skill expression.

[@kepler4192]

She would still be very vulnerable against melee champs and other skirmishers

[@thefonty.]

I was actually thinking of this.

[@avee5870]

Imagine if her Q knocks you back if you were hit by the inner circle. Maybe that'd be too broken lol.

[@thefonty.]

@@avee5870 yeah, but also what if her ult also rooted the enemy?

[@felipe-zm8yd]

it has too long of a cast time completely impossible to do anything against an irelia or jax point and click jump

[@deadlyapple8333]

Lillia is my pocket pick and i cant wait to see this video, keep up the great work vars, and cant wait for your ionia video

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

I can’t get mad while playing lillia. So i play lillia. “Time to out trot my awkwardness!”

[@tyago1949]

When will the Evelynn video be released ? 🙂

[@ConfettiBerg]

I honestly find success with her, she's like the type of champions that seem like no one plays, but you meet that one main and they completely destroy the game. If anything, it's good that she isn't cause it means people may forget what she does. And remember, that movement speed of hers can be pretty oppressive if she gets it rolling. To be fair, demonic embrace used to give defensive stats, which is apart of her build, and then they for some reason decided to make it dmg only. It sucks cause another defensive item besides zhonyas was just what champions like her needed, the health-to-damage change on Demonic doesn't really help much if you don't have the health to really utilize it, it's only really effective on champions like Vlad who's passive literally does the same and gives him more health, or Mord who can go tank, naturally has scaling health, and can take the stats of tanks if he kills them in his ultimate.

[@arcanya]

As a Lillia main since her release, I already know everything that will be said in this video, yet I'm curious how you will describe that "rework" of hers

[@seishinx1391]

True lol, lillia mains unite

[@ventu2295]

Lillia mains must remain together

[@seishinx1391]

Every lillia main remembers when she got her first non-release skin. She has 3 skins and yone has 5😭

[@ventu2295]

@@seishinx1391 She has 2 tho

[@wiruwkasoko7580]

i love playing lillia and i love how no one plays her sadly her biggest counters are point and click abilities or right clicks because sadly they are undodgable even when you have 700 ms and to make her less squishy overall it would be great to give her extra armor and magic resist based on her movement speed .

[@degeneratewithasideoftidep6795]

Well with the 12.10 changes coming up, she might actually have a chance at existing

[@wiruwkasoko7580]

@@degeneratewithasideoftidep6795 lilia mid o.o

[@thatcanadiannorman8690]

Lillia has overtaken everyone in my champ pool as my go to jungler. Once you learn her limits and get a feel for spacing well for her Q she can be an absolute beast.

[@cgijokerman5787]

Yes! I love her so much

[@881belldandy]

Exactly! It’s so fun to see people try to insta kill her but underestimate her damage and ability to dodge skill shots !

[@snowlockholmes6751]

I literally got M6 Lillia in less than a weeks worth of getting S (working on my M7 but I keep doing self sac play for dragons and 5 man últs). Either I’m a semi-competent player or she’s not as hard or as punishing people make her out to be. Yeah the only escape she has is that she runs away but she *RUNS* bro. With that much MS you should be able to run a Jax before he gets to deactivate E.

[@dwight3555]

@@snowlockholmes6751 She's not particularly hard, you just can't be a braindead moron like you can on 90% of champions and just rush straight ahead and win. Lillia is far closer to Evelynn than she is to Hecarim, she has to play around teamfights, space well, predict and juke. She requires knowledge and a ton of macro skill, she's not about spamming your buttons like a madman to hit 15 skillshots, she's about predicting all that's coming her way and adapting to it.

[@snowlockholmes6751]

@@dwight3555 I hit M7 Elise recently so perhaps my standards are a bit different. Though, I don’t know how much I agree with the fact that she’s an AFK Jungler since I gank plenty before level 6 and if not a kill or dark harvest stack, someone burns a flash or a dash. I do agree she does get picked off by predator Junglers though(though Nidalee is disagreeable). Also, 100% agreed on the fact that she’s more similar to Evelynn than Hecarim.

[@lukebriones8630]

Honestly, I used to play Lillia religiously ever since her release. Sure i mostly used her in the top lane, but she was essentially the first champion that got me to transition into being able to handle myself in the jungle. Up to the point where I made her a fallback champ to play when I doubt myself or if I just wanna play around and have fun. I was initially kinda sad when her mini rework came around but at the end of the day, I enjoyed, and still do love using Lillia today. She's been fun and that's all I ask for in league, mainly because the first rule of league is that we're not allowed to have fun, period. it's either tryhard (which gets draining for me) or get your shit kicked in (self explanatory). If Lillia were to get any change though to improve her as a champ (presumably quality of life changes or just a small change), I'd commit that change to her base stats. Not give more AP or anything, but rather give her a bit more base health/armor/mr or tweak her growth per level. I personally think the former would be better as a change to the flat, base stat provides more stability without bulking her up too much. Might just be me though.

[@degeneratewithasideoftidep6795]

Wish granted, now everyone gets it

[@AmineTiba]

Should have went for a money wish or something cuz you used all your wishes on lillia

[@charlesmontgomery6395]

I’m no master of balance, but thematically, a passive where enemy champions hitting her makes them “sleepy” and lowers their attack speed would be cool, and would make it so that in teamfights you’d go out of your way to start attacking her last

[@okidoxb4846]

a cripple mechanic WOULD be interesting

[@nsreturn1365]

@@okidoxb4846 riot doesnt want anti carrys in there game anymore, as prooven by vex being just a burst mage, and there efforts trying to delete shaco from the game by giving him 10 new bugs each patch

[@justamoogle5268]

Basically what saying is she should have Enchantress passive from DOTA 2

[@theoriginalcows1357]

2 years later and lillia is a soloqueue monster lmao

[@tuesday4564]

They killed her for me with the rework

[@HeckenschutzeMoH]

Same,now I only play her occasionally as a support (against tanky hook champs). I miss her old version so much... I played her a ton and suddenly she just disappeared... just like my Glacial Augment Neeko, 500K mastery score wasted !

[@tuesday4564]

@@HeckenschutzeMoH I loooooved to make fun of her shitty lvl1 clear, now i can solo a buff.

[@g7parsh]

I think you could give her some sort of movespeed -> ap ratio so you feel less bad about buying things like FoN or DMP as tank options. She has enough damage in her kit, just no way to stick to people to apply it while not dying

[@marshall7781]

True, would be cool to see her become the AP hecarim, because she really is except for not having his E charge.

[@matthewporter7871]

Lillia is a kite melee mage that exists in a game with a crazy amount of engage and dashes. She was always doomed to fail unless her numbers were overtuned.

[@catalin-constantinailincai5124]

Wrong, she's not melee and that's the big problem! She's ranged and because of that she gets lower defensive stats such as armor and hp which in turn means she's way too squishy.

[@matthewporter7871]

@@catalin-constantinailincai5124 yeah, I more meant her range on auto attacks is basically melee, but you make a good point.

[@JadenYuki20]

Also remember that Yone came out just 2 weeks later after her plus the animation to tease him released 2 days after her so I feel like that is why not too many people play her. She may be inconsistent but she was basically forgotten 2 days in since Yasuo 2.0 was being teased.

[@LutraLovegood]

That was a painful time. Everybody going "Why is Riot wasting time on this champ, give us Yone".

[@neneme4444]

I honestly love Lillia’s kit. She was my first main and her kit really suits me. I’m not the biggest fan of being in the middle of a fight so hitting people and running away with the passive is just so fun

[@BloomingDream]

I learned to play Jungle with her while she was offmeta at the beginning of season 11. She is and will be my main champion cause I really enjoy teaming up with her. Besides, I‘m focusing on being consistent with her and she carried me through my bad jungling. I will stand with her, despite it’s sometimes hard to have impact in the game with her.

[@williamo8600]

Maybe the more speed she has she gains armor and mr similar to hecarim but more defensive , they’d probably have to get rid of the heal and revert her passive nerf this could possibly work

[@judgementdragon2150]

I never found any of these problems when I played lillia. I found her movements speed to be enough to keep her alive against enemies that can't cc you for a century and also I thought her damage was a lot more than enough to make up for her lack of defensive options even in the early game.

[@cgijokerman5787]

My idea was to give Lillia magic resist and armour dependent on her speed. The more speed she has, the less tanky she is, the less speed the tanker. This would allow for a lot more versatile gameplay and usage of different items and more fun :)

[@zekehaskell3915]

You would need to incentivize people still want the option of movement speed though but that could be something easy and boring like a built in celerity

[@shieldgenerator7]

i think disincentivizing gaining stacks of movement speed is a bad idea.

[@bruh3457]

So every time she hits a target she gets squisher so she's punished for playing better

[@areallycoolsandvich9680]

I don’t think Lillia needs any adjustments, she’s in a really good spot right now. I think the biggest issue right now for her is going into meta champs like Viego, xin, and any other fighter that just closes the gap and tries to end the fight as fast as possible. Most ppl just go the default build of DH + double burn and expect to kill AD and AP champs which out range and burst her. Right now there’s not a lot of variation with lillia and her build which really just makes lillia look one dimensional despite her being able to build alternative items and do more if not the same amount of dmg in comparison to her default build. Bc of the liandry changes I build rylais 1st since it gives lillia even more power in 1v1s and early team fights. If the enemy team has alot of squishy high dmg champions build burst instead of DOT so that you have a chance. If the enemy team is full of front line champions which counter lillia build tank items like dead man’s and force of nature so that you can go into a fight and survive. The truth is ppl are to afraid to experiment Bc of how toxic this game can be and because of that things as simple as item optimization is made difficult due to anything different from her default items being “troll”

[@IDirtyMangoI]

Defensively speaking Ghosting is incredibly underrated. Adding Ghosting passively to her kit and adding the ability for her to dash a short range by recasting her R during the wind-up would change her playstyle a ton.

[@renneverbright]

More W range/speed and W wall jump. The fact that her W can't clear terrain is very, very unhelpful, especially early game. Give Lillia a wall jump, one that works through CC and has decent range, and you have an engage/disengage that would make any skirmisher proud.

[@tuesday4564]

Minirework made her boring and low skill cap. Heavy damage items arent needed as she has damage to kill every squishy after ulting in a matter of seconds, im a bit out of touch with league but when i played she just built riftmaker and conq which makes her immortal if ahead. The healing made her as tanky as tanks so shes far easier and the ms reduction takes a lot of fun away removing insane speed and damage for tankynes making her a more of a extended fights fighter then hit'n run super speed nuke bomb with insane TF. Coming back to why I think shes easier, theres no need to explain why resistant/tank champions are easier then the heavy damage ones, that is obvious. Ult sleep duration nerf deleted her combos, for example u could do something like: Q > R > Zhonya > (target still asleep) W > Q if an assasin jumps on u (10:07 that was a counter for those), and the teamfights have far less potential. As lowering difficulty is not a bad thing, i think that reducing satisfaction from combos and fun, original play style to a regular fighter in exchange for lowering difficulty just for low elo is sorta frustrating. That being said i am aware that my opinion is very arguable, maybe i was delusional the whole time i honestly like that thought

[@nekoschar6170]

mini rework completely killed my motivation to play her agreed

[@moi1407]

I know i'm late to the party but i watched a bunch of your video and it's the first one where i disagree with 95% of the video, to me the only thing that make her unpopular in soloQ is as you said the lack of coordination that render her ultimate less strong than it actually is. To me Lilia is weird cause her weakness in soloQ is what makes her strong in competitive and vice versa, having huge movement speed as a defensive tool is more than enough on soloQ to survive, yes, you put yourself in dangerous situation but no one has the coordination to punish you fast enough if you dont take a really hard cc like morg Q or ashe R stuff like that, yes the juggernaut might catch you but you will zoom out of here so fast the ennemy time will not have the time to punish you and a juggernaut most likely wont be able to kill you by himself but as you said your R might be use so poorly by your teammate that it's pretty much a 'meh' ultimate. The exact opposite is true for the competitive environnement, yes the movespeed alone isn't enough but her R is so good in a coordinated team that its enough to make her a good champion. Edit : Btw i think people being stubborn about playing lyandri on her is what makes her unpopular, the burn from passive and demonic is enough to make battle of attrition on your favor ; Crown, ROA, Everfrost or Riftmaker are to me way better pick up especially if there isn't a pure frontlaner in your team.

[@dr00skee47]

Lillia defensive tool is her movement speed. Giving her some kind of typical beefy defense would make her less punishing, but probably broken unless they gut her speed, which is the entire reason to play the champ

[@TClord]

Honestly she is my favorite jg, the high movement gameplay feels refreshing and lively

[@Fionagubelmann849]

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[@ericgoldman9260]

I would love to see an in-depth look at AP bruisers as a class. Tanky AP has always been my favorite archetype and I feel like it's always been really underserved by items.

[@Trockenmatt]

My suggestion: W should do more than just damage. It's coded as a dash, so make it a slow dash. Go over small walls, maybe. As for survivability ..... armor/mr as well has hp regen from enemies affected by P would be nice.

[@MrMrHougland]

I really think letting her w go over walls would be a single small change that would seriously improve her in a big way. Every champion in the game can why can't lillia

[@ACowIsHuge]

@@MrMrHougland cause she has 2k movespeed already and that would just be broken

[@MrMrHougland]

@@ACowIsHuge disagree, the range on her W is super small so you would only be able to hop super thin walls. Compare that to all the absurd mobility options other champs have that's nothing. Nice Necro btw.

[@OutstandinglySteve]

I think it would be interesting if Lilia would gain resistances based on the amount of enemy champions burning with her passive. This will likely help with her not getting one shot when she manages to do something like a flash q on 5 people.

[@cgijokerman5787]

That's a really good alternative instead of just giving her a shield, my idea was give her more resistances the less speed she has and immediately take them away once she speeds up or ults It'd make her playstyle far more versatile

[@dwight3555]

I don't think she needs a better late-game, she already scales very well, she just needs a small boost early on. For example, her Q stack movespeed going from 5 to 7% in increments of 0.5 instead of from 3 to 7 in increments of 1.

[@Zebastien-u1k]

well now with season 14 she is kinda insane

[@trafla3457]

Maybe give her a ~20% damage reduction while casting Q So it’s more skillful than just a shield

[@shieldgenerator7]

or maybe have q interrupt dashes / invades (like Master Yi Q and Kayne R)

[@The_Thirteenth]

Say the name of the W Vars. *SAY IT.*

[@Lin_Nascimento]

Lillia is fair, that's the problem

[@kroth3049]

The thing I enjoy about Lillia is how easy she is to kill. It makes every moment playing her intense. So I don't want to see her become tanky. I would add tenacity and slow resisit to her stacks. (Just emphasizes her skittish nature) And change her ult to a short stun where they take extra damage instead of a sleep. (Makes it less team relient)

[@shieldgenerator7]

maybe have a short stun after they wake up from the sleep

[@walkelftexasranger]

What I would change to make her feel better ? Definetly base stats needs some touch. Armor 30 - 100 Movement speed 340 Q NEW EFFECT: If Lillia hits enemy champion or jungle monster with the outer edge of her Q ,she gets 2/4/6/8/10 Armor and Magic Rezist. This effect can stack 5 times. If she hits multiple champions at once she gets stack from each of them (So if she hits all 5 enemies she instantly stacks it).

[@TreK123]

I feel like a way to tackle her squishiness would be to make it so that for every enemy champ affected be dream dust, lillia gains like 5% bonus armor/MR

[@MrKakofant]

Give Lilia a passive on her ult that says: After not beeing damaged by champion or turret lilia gains a charge up to 2 every 15-25 secounds. Once damaged by Champion or turret one charge is depleted and gains her 50-150 (+0,10% if her ap) health and 7-13% move speed over 2,5 secounds. One charge can only be depleted every 5 secounds. Lilia is fixed, more fun and fair to punisch by neutral strong Champs or hard cc!

[@oldanglish1452]

Maybe a health regen passive that scales with how fast she’s moving

[@recordkeepingandinformatio8206]

In true spirit of Bambi, Graves counters Lillia.

[@yaalpi]

I would give her a passive called "Blessing of the Woods", her resistences (armor and mr) will rise with the movement speed, so she would survive a little longer in a group of enemies

[@ladyamaranth111]

So I am watching this very late, but I mained Lillia in season 12. I like your analysis, and I have a crazy idea that I wanted to put in writing. I think that there are 2 things riot should do. 1. bring her base speed and early speed scaling back up, to give her back that early game movement speed advantage. As of right now, it is there, but not significant enough for me not to rush tier1 boots anyways. It really hampers her identity and makes her too vulnerable early game as she can't even run away properly. 2. and this is the crazy one - make her w a conditional cleanse. Hear me out, the w already goes through slows (i.e. if you are slowed, your w will still move with normal speed) but what if you make it so that every 3rd w its a cleanse from everything but knockups? Or its a cleanse ONLY when you are full speed stacks. Something like that. This does a couple of things: it feeds into her identity as a slippery semi-squish champ, gives her a defensive tool against stuns and roots aside from her movement speed, but also doesn't make her overpowered by giving her the same bruiser capabilities as hekarim or red kayn with insane AP ratios. (Don't nerf her damage thats one of the main trade offs with her and i would almost ask to boost it back up a bit at this time.) I think this would solve her problems, give her some marketability as a "champ with an easy-ish cleanse" without adding something to her kit that completely derails her playstyle.

[@TreK123]

Lillia is my OTP. She is so fun, I wish people realized how good she is

[@shieldgenerator7]

super speedy deer girl is best champ

[@catfood4142]

its a foreshadow of Ap bruisers or "battle mages" in general for some reason, Riot just suck at making AP dps champions, they either die to one shot due to lack of defensive passives or terrible itemizations in the game or one shot others when get ahead. Barely you see AP "dps" ppl down, yes it is a biproduct of damage creepy but I believe that is not it, there is a deeper issue buried at the foundation of Riot's stat system-------Jhin has higher base hp and hp growth than Shen as an example. We need more AP item diversities, Ap assassins now days overshine control mages or battle mages in general, sicne they do have large scale of AOE bursty AND CC, yet loaded with burst AND dps potential, namely--Diana

[@st1lysh35]

if voice coms were in the game the game would be even more toxic than now, just imagine rainbow six siege where there exists friendly fire and voice chat, in league it would be chaos

[@Taryntheterrible101]

Lillia is just another overloaded champion. She's got everything --- a fuck ton of movement speed, % max health burn damage, a potential 5 man sleep, her range is higher than most other AP junglers --- and not to mention, she IS an AP jungler. AP items are still some of the strongest items in the game. She needed the nerfs that gutted her, she WAS too strong at all levels of play. I think her drop in playrate isn't because she isn't viable. She has all of the tools to BE viable. Lillia mains out there still shred games constantly. I think it has more to do with her feeling cancer to play against, and equally awful for new people to pick up. That on top of the fact that her aesthetic didn't appeal to a lot of people, especially not junglers. It says a lot that after her release, her strongest roles were top and mid, not jungle.

[@AsuraMidori]

One way to fix her AND keep her relevant for end game is maybe add % damage reduction to her Q per stack that is. So like 1 point 1.2% damage reduction per stack 2points 2.4% 3 points 3% and small increase to total range. The flat reduction scales as the game goes in blocking more and the build up requirement keeps her from being crazy strong early due to cooldowns and having an increase to the range at full stacks makes her ult more reliable without making her broken the 15% reduction from damage helps her hit and run style while the small range increase lets you more reliably sleep groups of people in a team fight but also fits her kit since it makes it eaisyer to abuse her speed with out commiting

[@EddyConejo]

3:16 Come on man just say "Watch out! Eep!" already

[@clu4075]

They made a champion that is all about moving fast, out running your opponent, and kiting a AP champion. She was doomed from the start. It’s like an assassin building support items, it could work but it isn’t fun to use.

[@crusader8102]

There is imo one more reason why she isn't popular. Most people playing league want to play champions that feel cool, badass, and flashy. A deer girl that looks like she is gonna fall unconscious if you breathe on her is neither of those things. And while sure op champs will be popular even if they aren't super cool once they get nerfed they will instantly lose almost all popularity, while badass champions tend to have a decent playrate even when they are objectively bad.

[@scienceturtletheturtleofsc8737]

making her Q be a wide long line like vex Q but a little less longer a little more wider . The regeneration i would transform in a trail like singed and If you get in this trail your damage dealt gets reduced by Second in and If gets in 100% you sleep . The ultimate would be just xin zao ultimate but withouth the projectile negation and instead a area around you tha will make your team match your current speed

[@clu4075]

You bring up how lilias ult isn’t a defensive option and say it’s because she has to attack someone first. But you literally mention how viegos ability where he goes into other people bodies is a defensive option. But that move literally requires you to kill someone LOL

[@alejo44espinosa31]

"GOAT F*CK FROM SCOTTLAND!!!" -Tobias Fate The video where he says it is called seraphine, channel name is tobias fate.

[@chiidybang370]

Shes so fun to play. One of few actually well designed champs rot released last 3 years

[@sorbbae620]

I think part of lillia's issue is not that she cant kite enemies, i still think she kites extremely well even if she doesnt have massive range, its that she can only kite enemies effectively at full stacks, meaning she has to use her entire spell rotation to start kiting at full effectiveness. this means that her defensive abilty takes time to become effective. generally this can be worked around, by engaging fights with ultimate, using the cc as a chance to get ur max stacks, and then kiting for the rest of the fight, but it makes her alot less versaitile than other skirmishers. hence her niche popularity

[@lucasnadamas9317]

Reduce her damage and give her some survibability so that adcs dont just right click her and delete her in 3 seconds and she doesnt melt through tanky champs and one shot squishies it's a pretty cancer champ thank god she's not popular

[@Ezekku]

Rek'Sai and Lilia are my favourite junglers. Both super fun to play ♥

[@lpdragon1180]

They could include an effect in her passiv that enemies that have been damaged by it for an extended period of time get tired and lose between 10% and 30 % MS for as long as her passiv is on them. Additionally or instead, it could say that they deal substantial less damaged to Lilia the longer they have been damaged by her passiv and the cap scales with her R. e g. We reduce her range to Melee so that she synergies better with Conquer and Demonics. Her new Passiv would apply itself up to 10 times on the enemy instead of once. It deals now 1%/1.5%/2% Max health Magic damage per stack, reduces the damage enemies deal to her by 1%/3%/5% per stack and slows them by 1%/2%/3% per stack, scaling with her R rank.

[@virtuoso8298]

I like the ori soundtrack best soundtrack ever i remember u used it in multiple videos.. my favorite league discussion KZbinr

[@listing4071]

AHH THE SOUNDTRACKS. gj vars on choosing these cool background music :)

[@hothatter6768]

Lillia is by far one of the funnest champs to play, especially top since once she is out of her weak early game she will be turbo horsie running down everyone at mach 5 if you build a mythic or cosmic. The pure adrenaline going through my veins whilst I'm flirting with death knowing half the team has cc and ignite and having to dodge every possible projectile makes her feel as though she has one of the highest skill expressions, at least in the department of spacing and positioning. But in any case, she doesn't feel strong or weak. She feels just right. Personally I wouldn't want her to become more inclusive, in fear of losing her current playstyle or underdeer (get it?) feel. BUT, if you were to beg me for an idea, there are few, albeit the problem comes with becoming overloaded: cheesiest one would be to increase her W range so she can jump over walls. She can technically cut some corners around the map with it, but not much else, so for survivability, if not for being an F1 car down midlane, giver her free jungle hops so she never fears being in the dark. Another cop out could be some sort of way to deny damage at certain times, just like any other skirmisher, but honestly its hard to implement. Maybe introduce a gimmick to q that could help with staying alive during a teamfight, since any deer main will throw themselves for a 5 man r. Perhaps a function of fat instant heal, or maybe increased tenacity. Problem with these ideas is they would make her rather impossible to 1v1 against given she does exactly same thing except one person, not even a fed yone could probably handle the antlers.

[@seishinx1391]

The thing that I enjoy when playing lillia top is that she can bully alot of champs there. Countless times of won trades at lvl 2 or 3. And if my opponent is good at winning trades I just wait until 6 lol

[@DimitraLis]

Лилька просто слишком хороша, но ее импакт не замечают из-за других более "крутых" персов. как лиллия мейнер, который играет с ее выхода, могу сказать, что она имеет проблемы с хилящимися чемпионами (брайер, ий, триндамир) и с теми, кто ваншотает (ренгар, казикс). Это все фиксится осторожной игрой, резом хила, помощью команды. Вообще наше солнце - довольно агрессивный лесник как в начале игры, так и в лейте. Лично я бегу во вражеский лес отбирать фарм, бафф и жизнь противника со 2 лвла. Это неплохо так позволяет заскейлиться или, если не убить, то дать инфу про вражеского лесника. Ганги тоже на "ура" проходят. Ешка + ульта = килл для своего тиммейта. Без ульты просто под башню залезть и потанчить 1-2 хита = смерть противника на линии. Всем, кто говорит, что Лиллия - слабый чемпион я хочу дать попкорн, закинуть ко мне в команду и сказать "Наслаждайся". В лейте она вообще бешеная, очень много разных сборок для разных мачапов. Вообще единственное, где я бы не пикала ее - фулл ап команда, тогда лучше взять адшника, тут согласна. Почти каждую игру на оленихе получаю S, а то и с плюсами. Лиллия - тот самый чемпион, за которого мне ПРОСТО приятно играть. В ней идеально все, вот честно. Спасибо, что никто ее не банит (1 раз в 20 игр, конечно, банят, но это не проблема, есть другие классные лесники или, на худой конец, свап с союзниками на другие лайны)

[@HectorSGCG]

Dude why the hell she looks like a support but hit as hard as a bruiser. I'ts so out of place, i can say a lot of people doesn't play her just because of this. Nobody wants to play another ivern look-a-like in the jungle, cause they think she is weak (not by any chance lol). Also its so infuriating to see a janna-nami-lulu clone run at you and instantly wipe you, it feels like a troll build that your team couldn't handle.

[@HectorSGCG]

Also the build variety hurts her more than she benefits. New players build bad and lose, players against her have to press tab every 5 seconds to see if she went mage, tank, bruiser or whatever. It's just not fun to play against her.

[@butterflyfx57]

Defensive tool: Damage reduction, MR, and Armor for each person affected by Dream Laden Boughs. So, it's a defensive tool similar to Leona W, but instead of being an activated ability it depends on you affecting enemies with your passive.

[@shieldgenerator7]

thats what i was thinking!

[@whoknows7415]

I thought a similar thing. I proposed that enemies that are burning from her passive deal percentage reduced damage against Lillia which scales with her level. Basically, the difference is that I’m suggesting a level scaling to match her damage reduction with the current phase of the game and that instead of enemies adding up damage reduction that Lillia gets, they just all do the same amount of reduced damage against her.

[@OmegaIdiot]

I feel like giving her armor and resist scaling, but on passive, scaling with lvl, at begining being 20 ap giving 3 armor and resist, but do it with numbers not from my head but usable, something that will be strong in early, but not neseserly being busted in late game, fortunetly figuring out balance for that is not my problem

[@Mmoll1990]

When taking about melee AP champions, you forgot about our boy, Singed!

[@crashka5860]

A bit late but the build I have the most success with currently is liandry’s into demonic into full tank. Allows you to have decent dmg with the triple burn and building health with the demonic give you enough damage to be a threat

[@bemtheman1100]

I have also been doing this, follow demonics into deadmans, gargoyle, FoN/deathcap depending. I had thought her only bruiser build was rift maker but i think this is way better. Rift maker had mana issues and did less damge. Conqueror with resolve secondary and green pet and ghost and you are just a beast into the late game. Idk why this isnt her standard build for carrying

[@flameofmage1099]

Literally just give her a slow on Q Riot. Not a huge one but one imactful enough

[@abrarnoorani8385]

Fixing Lillia's vulnerability seems really difficult but I think a small quality of life thing would be to make it so she constantly heals health after casting her ult which ramps based on how many people are affected and ends soon after they all wake up since, in her lore, she's putting people to sleep to heal her mother tree so I think it would be thematic

[@Mordecai.Harris]

11:34 You're hilarious for thinking that voice coms will be good for the game

[@Style-tw5rp]

Reject jungle embrace top lane.

[@SilverCat75]

i genuinely think lillia plays really well and feels fine, her kit makes her hard to play so being able to master her makes it worth while because there are cases where youre able to kite the enemy to death. the only problem is that league is about getting a league and due to lilia being a late game champ it makes it much harder for her to be good on any sort of team comp :/ its the game not her id say

[@chabri2000]

The problem with "hit and run" champions, is that they would be unbalanced if they had no window of vulnerability. The moment she gets close is the only window characters without dashes can fight back. The problem is the new champions having 10 dashes each. If you send her back in time to season 3 or 4, she would be super strong. Also, is not as she has to stay in the "danger zone" for long, she just goes in for 1 seconds, deals damage quickly and then runs off to a safe distance, waits for cooldowns and then repeat. I think she was inteded to be a counter pick champion, kind of like rammus or galio. She is very good against melees without dashes.

[@Yodala666]

As my fav champ, I must say that something simple is more than enough to make her better at survivability, since in my opinion a good E is already an effective defensive tool if used right. I would add something like a knock-back on the contrary direction to where you cast your W. Like a knock back from her jump, a push with her legs or something like that, which would allow her to escape heavy engages from an enemy melee champ, and at the same time making W even more of an interesting hability, in the sense of having to learn to keep it for an offensive strike with crit or a getaway tool, depending on the situation. I hope I explained myself. In any case, I think she is so fun to play when you get a hang of her rhythm . Good vid, keep it up!

[@cannottrust3710]

Her strength is movement but almost all Champs have the mobility to get onto of her

[@kimlangweilig]

Lillia was my first main and is still my favourite. I have about 700k on her, so yeah. Her play style is sooo fun, it's just frustrating that the AP Bruisers Items suck so hard. Her MS + E is fun. She just gets burst to easily .(

[@BattleBossZeri]

9:41 meanwhile evelynn, which cannot even kill 1v1 support xD

[@davidguay181]

Rework Lillia's kamikaze W into something not so suicidal.

[@aidanknox2430]

they should give lillia umm ermmm umm ermm teemo blind. yes that should suffice

[@zzxxccvvkk5]

On her W, she becomes engulfed by a flower that makes her invulnerable then knocks back enemies to perfect distance for the slam. On her R -10% AP ratio,it dmg can proc 1/2/3 times from meaningful dmg, haste and dmging them lowers delay. E sends another seed if effected by dream dust from them.

[@molamola9723]

I honestly prefer playing lillia with a more one shot oriented build with ludens into shadow flame which mitigates a lot of the dangers of going into a fight and then getting out skirmishes in favour of fully committing hit and runs with her high burst damage kinda like an assassin Another benefit to this build is the bonus speed ludens offers as well as ludens being able to procc off her passive which will constantly keep the ludens speed going during a fight

[@markmendoza4538]

I'm nowhere near an expert on synergistic skills but I was thinking of stacking her heals for an extra hp bar of some sorts. Over healing from her skills fills up an extra hp bar and will only be spent once she loses all her current hp. I'm still thinking of other ways that can be her defensive gimmick that will line with her character design and lore. So far, this suggestion is at the top of my head...given that she has this fruit on top of her staff.