What Is The Best USED Porsche To Buy In 2023???

[@matthewbelcredi]

21 almost 22 years old, became a large Porsche enthusiast through my dad and going to the track with him through the PCA. Hoping to buy a 996/997.1 one day and find one that's manual and is in somewhat good condition.. this video provided me with a lot of information and insight so thank you!

[@Beehivefisherman]

I have a 987.1 2.7 5 speed bought it with 92xxx and I’m now at 142xxx I absolutely still love this thing.

[@timhankins7707]

Been driving my 1985 3.2 carrera for 12 years now. Around 145k miles on her and still runs perfect. No engine or transmission rebuild and just basic maintenance that I have done myself.

[@StevenVanLoven]

My 84 car has +- 155k miles and only a transmission rebuild. It don't use any oil and just sound great. How I like the modern cars I keep my old classic.

[@mattandallthings]

Mine is a 987 Cayman 2.7l. I don't loose any sleep with the bore scoring issues. Bulletproof engine.

[@PapaStrumfPS3]

Isn't 2.7 one that doesn't have this issue?

[@mattandallthings]

@@PapaStrumfPS3 not impossible, but vary rare. Some have reported it.

[@thedeadcandance8382]

This model was my first experience of Porsche. Fantastic car. Gutted I got rid of it...

[@lanetaglio5276]

What year? TY

[@Perceni]

I had the same hard and it was bulletproof, regret selling it .

[@mck4901]

Driving my 2000 996-4 since 2015 with 140.000 miles only in European winter. Great car. Apart from regular maintenance, which I’m doing myself, I had a broken radiator. So cost wise my cheapest car so far. I’m 61 so I had a few. 😊

[@georgem5589]

Pbly an early 2000 car with heavy dual row bearing and Porsche of old philosophy about durability. Good for you!

[@IvanSacofski]

Nice. I didn’t know they had Porsche in europe

[@brownro214]

I also have a 2000 996 convertible 6 speed, great car.

[@WARDADDY72]

​@@IvanSacofskiMe neither. Hahahaha

[@PapaWoody440]

'85 3.2 Carrera owner since 1996. 152k miles, had just under 100k when I bought it, and it's been a joy to own. Brakes, rear shocks, an alternator (colossal pain in the ass job), a relay for the fuel injection, oil return tube seals, two batteries, and that's it. Engaging, analog, communicative bordering on telepathic, and it makes a glorious noise, all while being a fantastic way to eat up mile after mile. The car has been a real gem.

[@sutherlacd27]

The Porsche to get right now is the 996 turbo. And it might sound crazy but get one with roughly 100k miles. They are available for roughly $40k right now. You can drive it for 4 years and put 50k miles on it. Then with 150k miles you will be able to sell it for roughly the same price you paid for it.

[@matthewdavies4358]

More like 50-55k for manual

[@dre32pitt]

You're talking pre-COVID prices.. they're not as far behind the 997 T's as they used to be....

[@co2588]

In Australia, they're selling for over $150k. Better off with a 981 GTS and some change

[@KTLaz]

Had my 996 c4s nearly 14 years ,no intention of selling still looks stunning and plenty fast enough

[@m.hfitness]

Same car 👍

[@SLG52]

4 years ago I purchased a 987.1 CS with 14k miles on it for 28k with a 71k build sheet (had many extras). I am at 52k miles. LOVE IT!!!! I do my oil changes and break pad changes....It is WAY less expensive than I ever imagined. I am going to do the surpentine belt soon.. YOU TUBE MECHANIC!!!

[@_ArsNova]

Picked up an '08 Cayman two years ago with 60,000 miles. Love the car, is a joy to drive, and only bill it's thrown at me so far is an AC compressor.

[@thehspace]

For some reason, people rarely service the AC compressor. Flush the oil, top up coolant. Got mine done at a 3rd party workshop.

[@scottsmith7337]

I just picked up a 2013 981 2.7 PDK with 55k miles really well Maintained I’m super happy with my purchase

[@jondiaz3475]

We brought a 2000 986 with 70k miles from San Diego back to the Midwest about five years ago. Thru dumb luck, it's been a trouble free daily driver getting ready to turn 100k miles this summer.

[@drewschilling5158]

2003 996 going on 7 years 83,000 miles on the Odometer. Very few issues so far. IMSB was done before my purchase. I did do a clutch and RMS but that's not all that bad for 7 years of ownership for a 20 year old 911.

[@DarkstarDarth]

What's interesting is every time someone buys a used Porsche, the first conversation is about " preventive maintenance" and when folks buy a used Mazda MX5 the only conversation is what upgrades they are considering never talking about all the issues mentioned in this vlog concerning used Porsches.

[@mattyp3119]

That's not really how most porsche owner conversations go: if your primary reason for buying is price then it might. If you're concerned with price and you get a cheap one or an old one then yes those people have to talk about maintenance. For the people who can actually afford these cars and aren't as concerned they will pay 3x the miata but have a better and more reliable car. This kind of conversation is a symptom of trying to buy a luxury/high end sports car for miata money. That doesn't work 99% of the time.

[@DarkstarDarth]

@@mattyp3119 ...to add regardless of price to my concern. Two of my friends had this happen, one has a new GT3 and at 16k miles blew the engine. Of course it was replaced under warranty but what if? The other person just last week returned his 2022 911 back to Porsche cause during his only 3 months of ownership it was at the dealer 2 months for electrical problems. He only had the car a couple weeks in his garage. He got his $228k back and will consider another brand. Again this is just what effects my consideration of an investment.

[@mattyp3119]

​@@DarkstarDarthdamn thats crazy, very unusual considering porsche is in the top 5 typically of any brand in terms of reliability.

[@wpbarchitect1800]

And a beautifully cooked Filet Mignon is more expensive and takes a bit more skill time and attention than a Big Mac. I'll take the Filet....

[@gregl4244]

One guy has a Porsche and the other guy has a Mazda.

[@Razimuth]

Lowest cost of ownership vehicle I've ever had was my 2002 996 Targa. I replaced the IMS due to worry, but the original one was in new condition. Don't be afraid of the 996 generation, I just sold mine to upgrade to a 997 but I'm going to miss it.

[@billsullivan4456]

I owned a 987.1. Loved it. Getting ready to buy another Porsche. First choice is 981 which is last normally aspirated base or S. Second choice if I want to save some money is 987.2. I see these cars as critical to this discussion.

[@dre32pitt]

981 has EPS.. I'd go .2 all day

[@andyhulme6666]

I have a 2015 981 base. Bought at 35k miles, one year on at 41k miles. Absolutely love it.

[@maxcarter970]

I have had a 987 3.2 Boxster for four years now. It’s rock solid. Great car.

[@drunvert]

944. Just got one. I get more attention in that car then any other Porsche I've been in. Also have a 981 6 speed 😊😊

[@Rockit181]

Dude true my Guards Red 944 got a lot of attention, $5k car after fixing a couple things lol

[@JJL206]

987.1 2.7 Boxster/Cayman: Less than 1% IMS failure rate (2006+ models), no significant bore scoring issues, typical maintenance items - many of which can be done by the owner. Selling prices between $20K-$35K for decent mileage examples. Great value for such a well balanced, great handling car…!

[@MK-su6eg]

2006 boxster s, so far so good,!!lucky, every day user 1 owner, well maintained, Got it 2019, fix replaced, things expected after 15 years, no major issues. Changed oil once ,alligood no debris in filter, doing change 2nd time 2023. Hopefully all good . Peace.

[@brianman233]

You've changed oil twice in four years? 😬

[@firstson6626]

Excellent synopsis. I have a southern 2008 manual 911S with 67000 miles. I love the car! So far, there are no issues. But you are absolutely correct... in the back of my mind I am thinking of what, when and how to potential problems.

[@mwh3227]

A lot of these videos put an unnecessary scare into people! Drive the crap out of it, and enjoy it! But be sure to perform routine maintenance requirements! Porsches are high quality machines! With a little love, the tend to last a long time!

[@rats1229]

Bought an unloved and salvage titled 996 Carrera several years ago. No issues. Car has been amazing. Engine is strong, and has over 120,000 miles on it now. Just got a gold star Blackstone oil analysis back on it. I drive it everywhere, including on track. You aren't necessarily going to have problems if you buy an old 996. These are generally great cars, built with great care, and ready to deliver lots of miles and fun. Numbers don't lie, and 70% of all 911s ever built are still on the road, and the 996 was one of the most popular, and sold in very high numbers. If you listen to this guy you would think buying a 996 was a guaranteed future of catastrophic engine failure and financial ruin. Just not the case. I had mine repainted last year, and even with the cost of a full glass out respray, my total cost in this 911 is less than a bad condition 997. Buy what you want and what you can afford, but if all you can afford is a 996, go ahead and get one. You might regret it sure, but you might regret anything you decide to do, and more likely than not you will love it. If the engine blows just V8 swap it and have more fun. Also I like the GT1 headlights, they look good. Also 997s look like VW Beetles, ya I said it.

[@griffpowell8501]

once you see it (beetle) you can't unsee it, that's why I 've put a deposit down on a 996.2 carrera 2 manual

[@kwebmail2007]

Hell yeah brother! When i bought my '99 996 6-spd in 2003 it had about 30k miles and I needed great air-conditioning (Florida) so the 993 was already out of the running. As soon as I bought it the clutch needed replacing almost immediately due to the previous owner and it had the RMS leak so I had both fixed at the same time, seems like it was around $3k. Then the coolant tank sprung a leak and I replaced that for around $200. Then I daily drove it for almost 20 yrs and after 113,000 miles on it with the only major unexpected event (non-maintenance) being the air-oil separator for like $1400? water pump 1x, the alternator 1x, engine mounts 1x, key switch 1x, oh.. and the window regulator which I changed myself 2x during ownership (annoying!) The car ran great, never smoked, didnt use oil between changes, etc etc etc. It was a very reliable car that I didnt baby at all, daily driver in all weather, some deferred maintenance (brake fluid!) and I knew even back in like 2005 that the internet hand-wringing was probably overblown but yeah there were probably people who had issues with them. However my experience was rock solid, just a fantastically fun and cheap car (bought for 39k and insurance totaled for flood at 26k 20 yrs later). Usually buying the first year (1999) of a model is not a good idea but the dual row bearing in the first year may have been the key to keeping me a Porsche fan and repeat buyer. Bonus is that at this point you're only a few months from getting the cool 'antique' tag in some states! I'd buy another if I hadnt gone for a 991.1 tts.

[@LC-rj6ok]

Gen 2 997 or 987 with the DFI engine would resolve any worries of bore scoring and IMS problems, plus an upgraded PCM. I'm lucky enough to have a Cayman R, I decided to spend the extra on the newer DFI, rather than worry about paying the extra on an engine re-build. Same engines as the newer 981 & 991 but with analogue steering.

[@isaac666_]

How would I find one in classifieds? 2012 years ?

[@sohelhussain2689]

Pretty surprised he didn't point that out. Big difference between gen 1 and gen 2.

[@LC-rj6ok]

@@isaac666_ 2009-2011

[@arjunbalu8211]

Surprised he did not elaborate on the most important aspect being the introduction of the DFI engine which solves all of the engine problems and the PDK issues are also not frequent as some say. I have owned the 997.2 Carrera S PDK for a while now and it’s absolutely trouble free. Also most importantly the last of the smaller bodied cars which makes them special for sure.

[@MasterArmedforces]

@@LC-rj6ok So if Im looking at a 911S I can play it "safer" by looking at 2009-2012 years? Thks

[@WMan66]

I used to have a 2008 997 gen 1.5 turbo tip…..Awesome car. I now have a 2014 981 Cayman GTS manual, another great car 👌🏻

[@bogdanpanek3481]

thanks for making up my mind! 1999- 2001 996 it is!

[@BarryCoombs1]

Bought my lowish miles (2005 with 39k miles at the time) 997.1 C2S Manual (first Porsche) from a Porsche specialist here in the UK just over 2 years ago so it’s had all the checks for bore score, IMS etc done. Engine sounds sweet but I avoid short trips, keep the revs low until it’s fully warmed up and have the oil changed every 12 months even though it’s only a weekend/fun car but gets used all year. No garage either but I look after it as best I can apart from that. The independent Porsche service I use actually drain the oil, refill, run, drain then fill again to completely clean it out. Can’t do much more than what I’m doing to prevent bore scoring but if it happens, it happens.

[@dylandavies9637]

I opted for a 981S over a 997 to benefit from newer engine development, eliminating the fear of IMS and bore score. 991 same benefits.

[@BobC59]

Me too!

[@LC-rj6ok]

Could have got the Gen 2 997 0r 981, if you preferred the older looks and analogue feel.

[@salami99]

hey man they just found out you can program the gt3 steering into the 981 module to make itfeel alot better EPS. You might want to look into it it's a free mod with piwis3

[@Unpredictable1819]

@@LC-rj6ok Alright I cant find the true information - do 997.2 carrera and carrera S have the bore scoring problem, because some comments claim they don't and some videos claim they do?!

[@997turbo]

996 turbo and 997 turbo: bullet proof engines!

[@ss-fc2fh]

You mentioned shipping the engines out for work being much cheaper. Can you share what shops you use or make a video about the process for doing that.

[@floodtheinbox]

I'm really happy with my 981 Cayman S PDK. It had 32k on it when I bought it, and it's got about 42k now. The only thing I've had to get fixed was a warning message on the dash about a PADM, which was shorted internally. Luckily that fell under CPO warranty. The first oil change at 38k I had sent off to Blackstone Laboratories for analysis and the results came back really clean compared to engines of the same type, and at a typical interval of about 3800 miles. I drive it at least once a week, and a lot more when it's nice outside. Absolutely love it, I hope it lasts a long time. I plan on putting a lot of miles on it.

[@chrisgerarddelossantos2103]

At what mileage did the PADM fail? How much did you pay to get it fixed?

[@drunvert]

Got one too. And had the SAME FAULT, lol.. Nothing else wrong. Had 32k miles now 58k

[@drunvert]

​@@chrisgerarddelossantos2103it didn't fail. It was a fault.

[@brice5542]

Thank you , I sold my 1982 911 SC when my daughter was born, every day I cry, lmy daughter has cost me 100,000 plus, waaaaaa. always loved the 911, ran it at Sebring with Porsche club, good times. Still nothing runs like a 911, period end of story IMHO, but the deep pockets it's like going threw two bad divorces at the same time. Thanks Nathan you help me with my BMW, much appreciated Cheers. Pops Fl

[@JJL206]

Fun Fact: Metzger engined Porsches (the turbos) didn’t have IMS or bore scoring issues.

[@LC-rj6ok]

Wish I could afford on of those Turbos, true future classics with that engine! Same with the GT3 I believe.

[@seamusmcfitz913]

The 996 & 997 turbos and GT cars are solid.

[@tomburns890]

Thx for your videos and appears you are very through & good at what you do. I had a 996 turbo stick sold with 23K miles never had any problems now have a 997.1 turbo with 36K & Tiptronic no problems so far. I love the 997.1 & 997.2 turbos.

[@WARDADDY72]

I have been a Porsche phile for thirty plus years. I was a ten year old lusting over the 944 . Then in college when the 993 came out I fell in love with the 911 again. Nearly bought a 996 years ago but couldn't pull the trigger. Porsche is a RICH man's game. There is no cheap way out. You have to have a really good job and or be wealthy to truly enjoy the brand. Unfortunately I am neither at the moment. Life sucks sometimes.

[@CalvinAytch]

If you listen to this guy then sure, you'll never own one. However, if you want to own and you're not a rich man, you simply have to be prepared to do the work yourself. Routine maintenance is absolutely not difficult on these cars and he is really overselling how common it is for engines to blow up. Bore scoring can happen but affects a low percentage of cars and its likelihood is greatly reduced with regular, frequent oil changes.

[@1scooterpilot1]

I’ll try to be brief and succinct. Please anyone jump in and comment as I’m not Porsche expert. I’ve been doing a lot of research and this is what I’ve learned: For the purpose of this narrative there are generally different generations of Porsche engines: #1. Air cooled engines until Model Year (MY) 1998 #2. Introduction of water-cooled engines MY 1998 to 2011. #3. Refined water-cooled engines MY 2012 to 2018. Lastly, #4 MY 2019 to Present. COATINGS: #1. Nikasil coating used on air-cooled engines. #2. Lokasil/Alusil used on water cooled engines up to MY 2018. #3.SUMEbore used in engines MY 2019 and later. SUMEbore is expensive and is a game changer. It does away with old cross hatch honing that’s been used forever. It uses a plasma tool to create porosity in the cylinder liners which are microns in size. After the plasma tool a second tool is used to re-surface the cylinder walls. What is known to date: Nikasil was a more robust coating than Lokasil. Seemingly air-cooled engines didn’t have bore-scoring with Nikasil. 2. Lokasil was used on 996/997 and bore-scoring is problematic, especially in cooler climates. Lastly, SUMEbore on late model Porsches. Can anyone provide more information on SUMEBore???? Based upon my research the most logical path forward for me is to purchase a 2020 or later Porsche. I cannot rationalize buying an older Porsche for 60K and putting anther 20K into it. Thoughts?????????

[@rolandgeorges960]

997 Turbos do not have this problem.

[@JonabqAlbuquerque]

Thank you, you are the last honest and logical thinking Porsche advisor.

[@stephenbaron5681]

In your comments you keep saying 996 or 997 but there is a huge distinction between 997.1 and 997.2 . The 9a1 engine is much better then the M97 engine. You need to be more clear for the people who are new to Porsche. I would have purchased a 997.1 if it had not been for a friend of mine who had two M96 engine grenade. Plus the PCM 3.0 system was a huge improvement over the 2.0 system.

[@aboyandhisdog]

I agree. I have a 997.1 which is in great shape with no issues, but the .2 has the better power plant and really is in a different class altogether even though the cars are basically the same in other aspects. The .2 engine changes everything!

[@Kommunisator]

@@aboyandhisdog Didn't the 997.2 have problems with carbon buildup though? Was that already the DFI engine? Apart from that, most M96-engines I saw give up the ghost were those with low mileage. The engine wants to be used, driven. When you don't move the car, it starts to develop problems. Constant movement, and constant maintenance is the key to longetivity.

[@aboyandhisdog]

@@Kommunisator Yep, the .2 is a DFI engine and they can be prone to carbon on the intake valves. There are ways to minimize this risk and this condition isn't unique to Porsche. I think it can affect all DFI engines. As to the M96.05 and the M97 engines in the .1 cars only about 4-7% +- are affected by scoring and far fewer, if any, have IMS issues. The IMS in the 997's, apart from a very few in early production, were an internal (non servicable) bearing and was very robust and not an issue. I think the best thing you can do is to drive the cars regularly, keep the revs under 22-2800 or so when cold, and drive enough that the oil gets hot for a period of time. I don't drive for short trips if the car is cold. And of course, change the oil at 5k miles, check the filter for bits, etc. I don't fret about my car at all, but with all of the conflab online about bore scoring, it is always in the back of my mind and something I never want to deal with. So I do all I can to assure I never have issues.

[@Kommunisator]

​@@aboyandhisdog absolutely correct. I think a lot of cars get damaged when the owners pull them from winter storage, having only seasonal plates on them, and then want "to show friends what it can do" without first changing the oil and giving the car some time to warm up properly. This is important, not only for a turbo, but also a naturally aspirated high powered car, especially with a Boxer engine. Mine uses a bit of oil, the big problem was the air-oil-separator. If that gets damaged, stop. Just stop the car. It will burn all of its oil in a few kilometers, and then the engine is toast. (looked like a James Bond smokescreen behind mine) Also, a lot of "damaged engines" that got new cylinder inserts weren't damaged at all, only the oil/water cooler was corroded through. A good flushing and re-filling would've solved all problems, but letting the customer pay 15.000€ for an engine overhaul is a far better prospect for some businesses than just getting a tenth of that for some replacements and a good system flush. I've seen blocks with steel cylinder liners, where those liners weren't properly inserted and started to wander, damaging the block beyond repair later.

[@hectorfuji]

@@Kommunisator that’s literally what my mec told me last time I took my 996.2 for maintenance “ you have to drive this car so it doesn’t develop issues”

[@Xueqs]

I was really leaning into a base Cayman but your video is changing my mind

[@robertfreeburg3566]

NO question - 996 turbo with some miles and keep it forever - slam dunk!

[@er98ah]

997 turbo s. Hydraulic steering and still smaller but more refined on the interior and exterior, plus overall looks and performance demolish the 996

[@mk177]

The interior breaks the spell ngl

[@khoimavlogs5161]

I have Porsche 987.2 pdk with 168 000 km with all service records. Awesome car handling very good. I would recommend. Hydraulic steering awesome you feel everything

[@hugohugo2832]

Agreed. Had mine for years. Use it every day

[@hugohugo2832]

@@er98ah ludicrous comparison. Double the price

[@arichison]

If I was lucky enough to have my Porsche I would want Nathan as my mechanic. Good information. Wow.

[@dvgebhart]

I personally have a 2009 997.2 manual transmission 3.6 and I think that’s the sweet spot so I’m not sure what he’s talking about. If you can find the second generation 997 and a manual you’ve got it made as far as I’m concerned.

[@samueldiehl352]

I agree with you I have one it's soild as u can get.....

[@100brsta]

I agree. I think he is a bit dreaming, not sure what he is talking about.

[@MasterArmedforces]

So if Im looking at a 911S I can play it "safer" by looking at 2009-2012 years? Thks

[@tinman917]

Agree entirely, I have same 3.6 manual car and it’s a delight.

[@tinman917]

@@MasterArmedforces In my opinion, Yes!

[@MrJamesknot]

I’ve had an 03 986. Purchased 06 with 28k. No ims update. Currently 228k. I budgeted $1100.00 per year for oil changes, tires and repair. I’ve never spent the budget. I love my Boxster!

[@AlanShirtsink]

944 S2 Cab with 201k. Driven it 5 times across country including a Phx-Atl and back trip in Feb and a Phx to Portland trip in September. Doesn’t burn oil and still can cruise at 80+ easy peasy. Don’t forget the later transaxle cars

[@cascade_Luke]

Facts. I’m out on the 9A1 that many think is the epitome of NA mid range Porsche experience. My 997.2 Targa 4S mt was on its 3rd motor (66k miles) when I sold it in ‘22. Had a powertrain warranty replacement and the long-block cost from Porsche was $27k with new injectors. F that. I’m shopping 991.2s when the market cools off.

[@nicktaylor2404]

I’m still not convinced you’re a real Porsche mechanic…because Porsche mechanics don’t call them “Porsh”

[@Aiken47]

When do Americans pronounce words correctly 😂

[@reuben.x.herrera1930]

Seriously?

[@valon5629]

I am with you, I don't think he is real mechanic. Just a KZbinr. He's hand are not mechanical looking one, plus doesn't know the Porsche's well, just reads.

[@kevinkeelan354]

They do unless they are non English speaking. Anyone who pronounces the “e” is a pretentious twat.

[@user-Duke996]

You’re definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed 😂

[@MoonRammer]

I've really been debating a 981 cayman s vs a 997.2 or 997.2 s Your input is just nice to hear

[@yetidh9]

Buy the Cayman unless you need the extra seats.

[@apolloandratti7922]

Drove a 981S/PDK for a year as I wanted to experience a p-car. Loved the flat six, but not the attention. People think you are driving an more expensive car than it really is. After 1 year, I sold it before prices dropped 10-12%, and will continue to drop in Q1/Q2 2023. I started driving my Honda S2000 again. Although the engines on the 981 are solid and trouble free at 50K Miles, I did not want to drive a PDK car long term without a warranty (although PDK failure are low, replacement cost is very high at $20K, and Porsche does not offer support with parts for repair). For the money, I wasn't getting much more enjoyment than my extremely reliable and raw Honda S2000 for less than half the price. Looking to get into a manual 981 GT4 eventually. Still a Porsche enthusiast and PCA member.

[@motomarmot6544]

So driving experience 1-10 rating. Porsche 981 S vs S2000. Im looking to pull the trigger on one of these and am leaning towards s2000. Id appreciate any input on your experience. Thanks

[@apolloandratti7922]

@@motomarmot6544 Get a clean s2000 to start. The 981S is a more refined and faster version of the S2000. The s2000 is more fun to drive and much cheaper to maintain. It is more challenging to drive on the limit (will make you a better driver). If it will be a daily, go with a 981 (but get the manual) If a weekend car, get the s2000. Both cars rate 8-9 out of 10 for me. See the s2000 buyers guide on my channel.

[@andredya9867]

I got 4th 996 and two 986 and never had ims, issues and everything you mentioned. Replaced seals on spark plug tubes, engine mounts, AOS , that’s it , also I do regular oil change After your “professional “ advice it’s better to buy Kia

[@cslack1]

You didn’t really talk about the major differences between 997.1 and .2 outside of the PDK. It’s a completely different engine. No IMS issues and far less bore scoring. It’s always good idea to do a detailed PPI and scope the bores. With a good inspection and maintenance history plus check ECU Rev numbers you can feel better about getting that affordable 997.2.

[@SupermotoCentral]

Jup, completely missed that in this video

[@ejford5083]

Yes there is a significant difference

[@dre32pitt]

.2's have bore scoring issues as well.. just not as much or documented, well because there just aren't as many .2's running around.. but even 991.1's with the 9A1 have bore scoring..

[@wesleycarusos8225]

I have a 2000 986 S manual. I have done the IMs clutch rear main seal.. complete suspension upgrade. Brand new tires. Cooling system overflow tank. I have 12 k USD in the car. It is a wonderful car and I hate the interior's on the 987 they look like a Toyota to me. Could not be happier. Car also has a tune on it and is very fast...3 years ..no issues..

[@madfemurfast]

The very reason why you dismiss the 986 is the reason to get it. IMS can be changed and teir 2.5 litre engines are nearly immune to bore scoring. But if the engine dies, it is not a financial catastrophe. Sell the car to the junkyard and you did not go broke. Whereas an engine for a 997, 991 or 992...

[@RENIELTUBE]

If you are in it for the driving and not for the bystanders, get a high milage 986 3.2L S manual from before 2002. They are cheap as dirt and also has a fairly reliable engine (no borescore or IMS problems if the miles are high) Change the Air Oil separator preemptively and go have fun. IF it grenades itself it's not the end of the world financially..

[@capitalexotics]

Why no commentary in the 991’s? Any major problems on them, I haven’t heard any (IMS, bore scoring) so that’s why I bought a 991.1 manual, 2015. I like to know your thoughts on the 991.1 gen. Thanks!

[@aa240sx]

I believe the bore scoring issue is the result of a fuel/environment issue. From what I've researched, it was first thought that cold weather starts affected the bores so cars from canada and northern climate type places like that. Then, it seems winter fuel could be the issue. I think this issue, like the IMS may have been blown out of proportion thanks to the internet. That said, I think if you want to mitigate your risks for buying a problematic 997, get a later build 2006 or newer. That solves the IMS issue for the most part. Then, get a PPI of course, but bore scope more importantly. Then, get a low mileage/low owner with great work history. And buy a 997 from warmer/dry climate states. Lastly, be sure you can perform a cold start or at least get a video of a cold start. No initial soot/smoke out of the left tail pipe. That should get you a well sorted 997. By the way, all this advice is if you're on a serious budget. If you're not, you can avoid the issues altogether and just buy a 997.2 (2009-2012). Completely different engine.

[@philipprosapio2295]

I agree, I have a 997.2 2012, 911 four GTS. six speed. All the issues he discussed are eliminated in those dot cars. . Money would be the issue. Those cars are all running between 70 to 100 grand in the 50,000 mile or under range.

[@MasterArmedforces]

@@philipprosapio2295 So if Im looking at a 911S I can play it "safer" by looking at 2009-2012 years? Thks

[@gregs8685]

I disagree. Buying any 997.1 is risky but if you want to roll the dice on one you’re best bet is a 2005 or early 2006 3.6L model with a replaceable IMSB. Get a PPI including bore scope. If it passes you can easily replace the IMSB on these early cars with one of the proven aftermarket bearings. The 3.6L engine is less prone to bore scoring. The late 2006 through 2008 cars had the larger IMSB, which are an improvement, but they still fail at an unacceptable rate and they are not replaceable. Unless you disassemble the engine.

[@martinespinosa]

Changing the spark plugs and coils of the 997.2 is an absolute nightmare and very costly. Be sure that it has been done before you buy one. Terrible engineering regarding that. Shame on those engineers

[@ianmccusker]

Anyone who says "the internet is blowing it out of all proportion" either owns one with engine trouble already and are trying to sell their own car or are just ostracising themselves hoping it doesn’t happen..!! Be extremely thankful, that this gentleman, is making you aware of the problems that you will definitely come up against. It’s not only 1%-2% that suffer - it’s only that number that doesn’t..!! They’re an absolute nightmare; and any vehicle that’s had some kind of issue before you own it, without your knowledge - Is just like buying a grenade..!!

[@a.j.manville7042]

good analysis,thanks, very happy with my 981 base boxster with PDK "most obedient vehicle I have ever owned''

[@thomasharris5151]

Buy a 944 Turbo S or a 968……. GREAT car that easily maintained by Porsche standards and it’s sorta a DIY Porsche.

[@brettlamont4965]

Buy a mid miles 996. Run it enjoy it. Once hits high miles rebuild the engine and drive it again. Total costs will still be less than a new one if you could buy one for msrp. Every gas engine will need to be rebuilt in its life. Some sooner than others and the more high performance the more it costs

[@greg5674]

I’ve upgraded from a 986S to a 987 and now 987S, and couldn’t agree more. Huge amount of car for the money

[@drewbaker5064]

Boy this guy is a bundle of joy

[@hawkinsjd11]

I agree. I have a 986. I bought it for $13.5 and have put $12k into repairs and upgrades. I love the car though and it is an amazing car. Regardless of my issues. I would only trade it in for a newer Porsche. I am hooked.

[@captaincoyote1792]

Damn….this is an incredibly valuable video. My story? I’m in the “end game” of my 60s. When I turned 50, that year coincided with the year I was promoted in the Navy, to O6. One of my early XOs, after his divorce, bought a beautiful white 944S2 Cabriolet. When I first saw it on the pier in Norfolk, one sunny Virginia day, I fell in love (the car dammit, nit the XO. Focus! Focus!). So jump ahead, I turn 50, and sew in my fourth gold stripe, and my wife tired of me whining about wanting a Porsche. By then, rear ending Porsches were out of my range….and I kept coming back to that 944 cab…and found one. A very low mileage, all records, Baltic Blue with full leather “linen” interior. I still have that beauty….and now living in New England, she is stored six months of the year. She gets compliments EVERYTIME we go out….but I’d be lying if I didn’t admit to at least some 911 envy….maybe even a Boxster S. And right now, my still low mileage, (barely 68k on the clock) all services, everything works 944s2 is bringing silly money. But….approaching 70….maybe I’m better off believing that “the devil you know, is better than the one that you don’t”. Bravo-Zulu, we’ll done sir….this was indeed, a very informative video. I no longer have the patience, tools or workspace, to turn my own wrench. So your information in this video is invaluable….at least to me. And sadly, so true about younger people and manual transmissions. I forced all my three kids to learn on a shift stick. We (my wife and I) felt that doing so, kept their attention on driving, versus their damned iPhones! Thank you, sir!

[@mauida7746]

Been driving my 996c4s for 11 years, 58000 miles, spent the 5g and did the IMS and clutch, ..never had a problem

[@Seaward1224]

I traded my 997.1 911 turbo cab with 25000 kms in 2022 for a new 2022 718 spyder. Almost an even trade. I recognize the future classic attributes to the 997.1 that I traded but there is no question the Spyder is so much more enjoyable to drive hard and you can drive it hard without risking your license and life. Also I no longer worry every time I drive the car. Too many people I know have had to spend $40,000 on an engine problem when those Mezger engine have problems and need a rebuild. It always made me want to keep it in the garage vs just enjoy driving it. The Spyder and GT4 is the last of their kind especially in manual. The simplicity of these cars, no Turbo’s along with the perfect power to weight ratio will make them collectors. Just need to hold onto them for 15-20 years!

[@jamesjacobs5338]

Nathan, This is my favorite show you've ever done. And I've watched a lot. I felt like you were talking to your brother, straight up and in plain terms. I'm lucky - I've got a 25 year old Boxster that only has 32,000 miles on it and it just goes and goes. So far ..... Really enjoyed this show. Jim in Denver

[@davidmorais2394]

You can’t lump 997 with 996. The 997.2 (09-12) is a perfect car. I’ve owned mine for 10 years and drive it regularly. No ims issues. I also own an 86 3.2.

[@MasterArmedforces]

So if Im looking at a 911S I can play it "safer" by looking at 2009-2012 years? Thks

[@tinman917]

Completely agree. I have owned both 997.1 & 997.2 with zero issues. I’ve always tried to buy the very best car I can and kept to the 3.6 which I believe leads a quieter life. Keep off 3.8 s with Chrono pack seems to be the market wisdom as these have more than likely been on track days and visits to the Nurburgring.

[@davidmorais2394]

@@MasterArmedforces yes. The series 2 are pretty much bullet proof. But these are cars which need regular maintenance and when you come to suspension rebuilds etc, these are big bills. And then they just keep driving as tight and as sure as when the came out of the factory.

[@Zee06]

I bought a 958(Cayenne) it was on the higher end of my budget, but I am alot happier with it than the 955/957s I was looking at. 20,000 miles on it since purchase and no issues, other than age related issues...Tires, plugs, etc.

[@Harley-ir4er]

Myself and a Friend both have the 997 3.8 versions here in Europe and No bore score issues. I am aware of this problem but it's only some 997's that have this issue. I've had my 2005 since 2014 with 52,000 miles.

[@jermainerobinson7098]

Great review l guess he’s just being honest the only thing that puts me off is there is a lot that have had engine rebuilds on auto trader l guess that back up what he’s saying thanks for the review it was really helpful 👏🏽👍🏽

[@martinespinosa]

I have a 2000 C2 Cab. Did the IMS, AOS, oil cooler and the Variocams were checked and the pads, solenoids and chains were changed. Now I hope I have piece of mind for a while but I’m already itching about upgrading!. 😮

[@crazy-_-Beard]

1995 Porsche 993 turbo. Such an awesome car.

[@NK-nk3xe]

Here is the question I have though, yes so you buy a 996 and things can go wrong. But, what are the chances, not 100% right? IMS issues are only at most, 8% likely to happen (according to most failure estimates) , so even if you buy one, those are pretty good chances. So yes you might have some issues, but those risks come with any car. Am i wrong?

[@steverush8362]

There are so few 98 and 99 IMS bombs....those years were dropped from the class action law suit w factory...less than 1%

[@NK-nk3xe]

@@steverush8362 Oh really? I didn't know those were dropped. Nice to know!

[@igglybiggly6951]

Got a 2000 996.1 Tiptronic owned since 2010 with 57k and now at 105k with original IMS.That whole topic was utterly blown out of proportion. Just be careful not overextending your maintenance and enjoy it!

[@NK-nk3xe]

@@igglybiggly6951 Agreed. As I mentioned, even WITH that low parentage of failure the odds are highly in your favor. I have also never heard a single person give a story of how their IMS went out... Higher chance you'll get hit in the front end by some chick flying on a drug as she ran the red light and total your 2005 Boxster S. Which is what happened to me. lol

[@redfox_84]

​​@@igglybiggly6951the 996.1 has the stronger dual row IMS. The 996.2 02-04 has the weaker single row.

[@holidaymoviecompany]

The 986s is a great car. I've owned a 2000 model for 4 years now and it's totally reliable and fast. It has lowered suspension; aftermarket alloys and sports exhaust system. We live near Monaco where there are hoards of 911s and the car still gets loads of admiring looks. There's a lot of snobbery in the Porsche world; if you don't own a 911 it's not a Porsche! 🤦‍♂️

[@Francois997.2]

If I listen to this I would never buy a Porsche again, but had 2- 993's without any issues ( still miss that car ) and now my 2nd 997.2 PDK, last one now on 80.000 miles without any major issues. 2nd owner and FSH from the 1st owner. And agree with the comments below can't compare a 997.1 with a 997.2.

[@bill...9566]

You know the old saying. You wanna play your gonna pay. Just got a full factory rebuild from Porsche $25k on my 99 996 c4. Bore scoring. Been luck with my other Porsche no real issues so far but it’s air cooled 72 911 t. Maybe she mostly a garage queen.

[@TParker602]

If relatively attainable Porsche reliability is what you’re after, you should consider the naturally aspirated (no turbo issues) 991.1 C2 & C2S. Not saying it’s not without any faults, but bang for buck… I think it’s the best. No IMS, no rampant bore scoring issues and you can pick up a lower mileage version for under $80K.

[@wd8557]

I have a 06 Cayman S. I was shooting the shit with a guy at work and his brother is a retired prosche mechanic 28 years. Does side work out of his pole barn, he saved me big time over going to the dealer. Will be dropping my car off in three weeks ( He is booked ) dealer wanted over 2k for some work, him 710.00 bucks

[@marcducati]

The reason why the early 996 don't have bore scoring is that the pistons had an iron coating that resited the carbon particles. Beacaue of enviromental reasons, porsche had to stop that treatment and went with a plastic coating that wore off and made the aluminum rub the cylidner walls causing bore scoring.

[@dsmprospect]

They sold 175000 996s and they are all 20 to 30 years old. If they are all bombs they would be all in junkyards by now. The prices are going up on these cars because if they are maintained well they ARE reliable and as Nattie himself says, more reliable than their German alternatives. No reputable shop says they all bore score. Weird statement to make. He's right when he says that they are expensive to repair if they aren't well maintained before you get hold of them. But there's a well documented path to success with these cars and the rising market prices reflect this.

[@robertfitzpatrick7332]

Good advice. These are expensive cars and plan on spending $40-$50k on a high mileage, 996 including purchase price. Probably the same on a 997.1. I am seeing so much about bore scoring now and as Nathan says, expect this to be a problem on any sub 991 water-cooled 911 and sub 981 Boxster/Cayman S model. The safest, affordable buy are the 986 Boxster base cars and 987 Boxster/Cayman bases. I think that purchasing a Porsche that the seller knows (and is honest about) is bore scored for $20k under market is probably the best way to get a used 911.

[@ericlecours4208]

Even Jack Raby himself has never seen bore scoring on a 987.1 base model. Think that’s what I’m gonna buy just for the peace of mind.

[@nicktaylor2404]

I had a 97 Boxster I bought with 193k miles on it…never had a problem with it…like not even a check engine light

[@MasterArmedforces]

So if Im looking at a 911S I can play it "safer" by looking at 2009-2012 years? Thks

[@niall3973]

Of the 997.1 non turbo versions the percentage that suffered from IMS + Bore Scoring is thought to be anywhere between 2% to 20%. I think if you find a well maintained one you will likely not have these issues. Also I believe that there are affordable solutions that can be implemented which will prevent IMS issues occurring. So I feel the issues with this car are being slightly exaggerated. Just buy from a well maintained one from a reputable specialist, with a 12 month warranty, and you will likely be able to sell back in a few year time with little lost. I disagree about the point concerning manual desirability. Those who can afford these car's will want that rawer (yesteryear) experience...and they will pay for it. I would recommend in 2023 if someone wants a 911 to not get a 992 C4S which will probably depreciate 20%+ over 3 years, but to get either a 996 or 997.1 turbo with the manual. They should be less money to the 992, and if in good condition should at least hold their value and not cost much to maintain. In fact I'd be pretty surprised if they lost any residual value. Honourable mention to the Cayman R, another car which should be reliable, minimum residual depreciation and loads of fun.... plus pretty exclusive.

[@younghem]

My ‘99 996 had bore scoring so I’d say it’s an issue with the earlier 996’s as well

[@computerhelpcc]

100% correct! Six years ago I bought a 99 996.1 from second owner (a doc) and it had the cleanest PPI the mid-west P dealer had ever done. $12k car, easily spent another $12k in first 3 years alone (including IMS LN Eng, and IMS in car was not orig), and I stopped keeping score after. Awesome driving experience. I was warned by auto salesman I knew personally that it’d be $3k/yr as parts wore out etc, I did not want to hear that, and it has been true! Per Boxster/Cayman, yes, they handle better and have lower learning curve. IF you fit inside; I fit and 911 back seats immensely helpful per my kids. If my engine blows up, yes I will probably pay the $20k for Flat6innovations to rebuild it so it never happens again. 996 plastic interior? Yep, but my Jag XJ6 already has good leather, wood and chrome. Yep, Lexus GSF has epic V8 and RWD gear-based torque vector diff, and yet, 996.1 cable throttle is a fine balance of driving qualities and I’m keepin it

[@mikecruise6991]

Thanks for the advice I'm glad I didn't get to in debt for a 2003 996 😎🏎️

[@oibal60]

I've a 1996 993 C2 iris blue metallic, 66,000 miles, 6-speed manny tranny, varioram, LSD. No CEL, no oil leaks. Multi-show full-concours winner. I do my own maintenance. I'm never selling it.

[@babyjames6979]

Awesome video but could you include some edits? namely pics of the specifics...like when your mention bore scoring and the interior differences.

[@smacdiesel]

Mezger cars are the best. They have none of the issues mentioned above.

[@KrustyKlown]

996 Turbo with Metzger, prices aren't too crazy ... were really low about 5 years ago.

[@Patrick-jc9pb]

Only coolant problems

[@mrebear9758]

IMS bearing issues

[@smacdiesel]

@@mrebear9758 no

[@iuffjfu]

Great video! Very informative and that helped me out on knowledge on those Porsches .. thanks

[@blairwilliams5215]

996 Turbo -X50 hands down

[@frankavelli1427]

I feel we just went down a rabbit hole on how Porsche 911s aren’t reliable but I’ve heard otherwise and not sure what to believe now…

[@MrRocksteady77]

Man. What to do, what to do. Thanks for the commentary.

[@dsrrecordsent]

The 986 beats the living heck out of the Modern MX5 in every way! I love the little light moderns Mazda’s but the 2.5 Flat 6 in the 986 is a pure pleasure to drive with a 5 speed manual or even with the triptronic transmission it always puts a smile on your face! I would not agree it’s a “cruiser” not a “Sharp sports car” as the video suggest, it’s a car with a spirit and personality that you have to learn in order to make the human connection with this mid engine, perfectly balanced and weighted delight if a machine and German engineering! The balance is impeccable and they even had to down grade the performance so it would not compete with the 911! Both the Mazda MX5 and 986 are light on their feet and handle phenomenally, the 986 has much more performance but actually requires precise drivers input versus the MX5 which seems like easy to drive and handle after a few runs! The 986 has better balance, more power with high revving linear power&WAY more refined fun⚙️🥳 It’s a car that not only grows with you day by day as you bond with it but a car that grows on you as you appreciate its refined and exquisite performance! The car’s abilities are far more advanced than the drivers ability which makes it’s a fun car that’s quick on its feet with perfect balance but also a tool that is an extension of the driver that provides ability and a charm that is just lacking with the Mazda’s-It’s impeccable 👌 Ps. If you know you know! Perfect balance, perfect powerband, exquisite style and personality with amazing German engineering and charm that you will appreciate day by day as you and the car become 1-💚 Ps. If you are a driver you will appreciate a car that has the perfect balance, character and charm of the 986-it’s a pricless and ever growing experience and journey of love and life! The 986 still has the spirit of the original Porsches and those that drive them have a relationship where not only is that spirit evoked from the car but a journey is started with the driver constantly refining the drivers abilities in a marvel of engineering and a hidden gem in the car community with smiles ear to ear included 🥳✅ -------------------- The experience of a mid engine, flat 6 convertible with a high revving motor and perfect balance is one that cannot truly be put into words but only experienced and enjoyed! 🤩👍 (Exquisite, refined and truly priceless) ⚙️🏎️🔥🔥🔥🔥💨💨💨💨💨💨 I appreciate the 2.5S over models with larger engines because of the power bandwidth-it requires and allows you to rev high and let that beautiful engine sing an exquisite song as you smile the whole way along! The bigger motors are heavier and maybe more of GT cars rebadged to keep the 911 the top tier model but the older lighter 2.5 flat 6’s like to be pushed and provide more of a connection with the car and driver while being quicker on its feet which keeps the Porsche spirit alive and keeps you smiling ANYTIME you drive (Light,perfect balance,great handling,high revving convertible=A PHENOMENAL&SPLENDID TIME🤩) People sleep on the 2.5’s and some even sleep on the Triptronic S transmissions but I have driven many cars and the 99’ 986 manual or Triptronic S’s are truly a hidden gem!!! Especially for those that love2drive😉 Forgot to mention it will always be a sharp, classy, iconic, refined and beautiful piece of engineering full of original Porsche spirit! A one of a kind Timeless piece of art indeed-👌 (The 986 was the first water cooled Porsche also making it apart of history forever! ICONS live forever⏳) Truly a timeless peice of engineering that is often overlooked but appreciated by those that truly value engineering&ear to ear smiles on the road from the backroads to the tracks 2.5 IS A DRAGON PERIOD-🏆🐲🏎️ (Light,perfect balance, short gear ratios, high revs=HIGHTIMES⚙️🥳) Your spirit connected with the spirit from Porsches engineering and cars that represented their true original glory will bring smiles and love to your story & your own person journey 😉

[@4R1P5R]

Which gen is the first where you don’t have bore scoring problems?

[@mannyc19]

997,2

[@boxterjeff]

I'll keep my 991.2. Bulletproof and Cobb tune. Same performance as a 992 S.

[@rogernilsson_Swe]

981 is the answer

[@thefilmandmusic]

987s ,, fab balance , practical… bargain ..I was at Porsche Silverstone , a proper driver took me on the track in my car … You can’t believe what this car is capable of .. I was Mr Ford in Shelby’s cobra

[@stevenrice8033]

I'm surprised there was no distinguishing 997.1 and 997.2. The 997.2 has a totally new direct fuel injection engine which eliminated the issues mentioned. In addition, the 997.2 is the last 911 that still has hydraulic steering. It has been said that the 911 997.2 is the last of the pure Porsche (Prior to VW takeover) true classic sports cars.

[@matthewlawson5350]

Legend, love the honesty.

[@johnmorgan7262]

I could not disagree more. An early Boxster S would be my first choice in that list. 2000, 2001. Swap in a 3-4 top, and you have a great car. In my view, that car is better than the comparable 911. Excluding a major engine build, the maintenance is comparable to any 20 year old car. Further, by the car for you. Not the next guy. I see no point owning a Porsche with an automatic transmission. It takes a couple hours to learn to drive stick safely and a couple weeks to drive decently. It takes a lifetime to master. That is the point. All of these cars are better than comparable brands.

[@atrain132]

I've got the PDK in my 997.2 and love it. It feels like a manual, and obviously shifts a hell of a lot faster. Personally, I wouldn't ever want to go back to a manual.

[@olasek7972]

Own 2020 Macan GTS as my ski car, only comes with PDK. Also own 2021 Boxster S, manual, this is my beach car, perfect combo in my garage. 🤓

[@zeblackboi]

981 Cayman S is a dream to drive. I find just about any reason to take it out for a drive.

[@Debosway77]

This guy answers questions with questions, wtf am I watching....