What stands between me and leaving the church | SU Podcast with Tyler Griffin

[@Sunshine-eo2sp]

YOOO This guy was my New Testament professor this past Fall! Were it not for taking his class when I did my faith would've fallen off hard during that time. Tyler if you see this I wrote the paper "God, is my family ok" and I never got to tell you how grateful I was for you being my teacher. I am so so grateful. and I downloaded and saved every single zoom lecture to a flashdrive bc it was so good :)

[@johnbushman57]

Increased respect, which I didn't think was possible, for Tyler. His answers were so thoughtful, understanding, and compassionate and, in my opinion, right on. I believe his responses were inspired and information we can all use. Like, Jake, I appreciated them.

[@walterralls9447]

The answer is time. I am 72 years old and I have learned that answers do come but they come when we wait for the Lord to reveal his answers. Patience is important. We must decide this is what I am going to do until I breath my last breathe. Endure to the end.

[@stevenhenderson9005]

Agreed. I grew up my whole life believing that the BOM was an actual historical account of ancient people, but over time and learning more I was able to come to peace knowing that the BOM is actually a fictional book with fictional characters created by "The Gift and power of God" which is the imagination of Joseph Smith. Coming to know the truth and having the patience to watch the truth develop over time has been a huge blessing

[@michaelcrowley9008]

​​@@stevenhenderson9005 oof! No. It's not fictional. It's many journal entries over 800 years compiled by a final member (Mormon) and finished off by a single journalist entry. Moroni. You can sometimes tell when it written in first person at the time of the event. Or when Moroni is condensing down the information of many persons journal records into one book section. Now and then Mormon interjected information by historical records he had available in his time to make the entry more understandable to the reader of the future. Already knowing it would be a really long time before anyone would be able to read it. It's prophecy, it's 1st person records of both 1st and 2nd persons. And also 3rd person records. Many events in the collection are beginning to be historically verifiable. But, God has proven that He wants us to find Him Spiritually rather than by physical objective evidence; time and time again. Most prominent example is when Jesus Christ Himself said those apostles that believed in His Resurrection with no physical evidence were much better off, much more blessed than the one who needed objective evidence to be convinced. The Spiritual experience God offers to all in the world is a personal relationship with God. There are tests and formulas in formats for individuals who are willing to receive, may do as all the scriptures have exemplified to actually work out. Then the potential for objective evidence is created off those experiences. Like Noah and his Ark. And Moses and his under the sea land bridge. In time many things have shown their evidences. But, that's not what builds trust and true faith. God will bless those that believe from physical objective evidence. But, so much greater the blessed of those who act in faith without those things!! Don't trust me for my experiences, ask God yourself and Trust Him.

[@stevenhenderson9005]

@@michaelcrowley9008 I have not only read the Book of Mormon multiple times, but I have researched and analyzed the text and content enough to establish a pure knowledge and understanding, which actually supersede the need for faith. (FAITH: The belief in something you don't know). The Book of Mormon is not considered an ancient historical text for several reasons: 1. Lack of archaeological evidence: Despite extensive efforts, no archaeological findings have substantiated the Book of Mormon's historical claims, such as the existence of specific civilizations, cities, or cultural artifacts described in the text. 2. Anachronisms and linguistic issues: The Book of Mormon includes anachronistic elements, mentioning plants, animals, technologies, and language that did not exist in ancient America during the time period it claims to cover. Linguistic analysis also reveals similarities between the book and the 19th-century English language, suggesting a modern origin. 3. Translation discrepancies: The traditional account of Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon involves him using seer stones and a hat to receive divine revelations. However, this method is highly unconventional, and the translation process lacks the academic rigor typically associated with ancient texts. 4. Parallels with contemporary religious ideas: The theological concepts, religious themes, and narrative structure found in the Book of Mormon align closely with ideas prevalent during Joseph Smith's time, particularly within the religious revivalist movements of early 19th-century America. 5. Changes and revisions: The Book of Mormon has undergone significant revisions and edits since its initial publication, suggesting human authorship and creative input over time rather than an ancient historical text that should remain unchanged. Considering these factors, it is more reasonable to view the Book of Mormon as a creative dictation or a product of Joseph Smith's imagination rather than an ancient historical record. Members of the church put to much importance on the historicity of the Book of Mormon, and ignore fictional elements such as skin changing color, or impossible stories such as Ammon cutting off the arms of the Lamanites while they were scattering the kings sheep. They also neglect to understand what Joseph is talking about when says it was brought forth by "The Gift and Power of God", which is the single most important gift given to mankind that separates us from all other creatures on earth and that is our ability to take knowledge and information it order to formulate new ideas that is essential in progressing societies, advancements in new technologies, tcreate stories that motivate and inspire readers, the ability to study things out in our mind and in our hearts as we us this gift that is sometimes called our IMAGINATION and is the most significant gift and power of God we have. When Oliver Cowdery attempts to translate by putting his face in the hat, he tells Joseph he can't see anything. However, Joseph explains in revelation to Oliver why he can't see any and how he needs to use his imagination. D&C 9:7-8 7) Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. 8) But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. However keep this in your mind, that just because you feel that something is right doesn't mean is, but could rather mean that is the answer that helps lead you to what's right. We get to know what is right once we have eliminated everything that is wrong. So everything you thought was correct could really be everything that is wrong in order to actually discover what is right. In other words maybe it took the murder of millions of innocent people accused of being witches, in order to come to the realization that burning witches is wrong, even though the Bible may teach it to be right. When missionaries ask people to read the Book of Mormon and ask God if it is true, they are not talking about historical truth, but spiritual truth that can lead a man closer to God by abiding by its precepts. It is the divine nature of the stories in the text that connects you with the good nature of the divine and transforms your heart to a new person in Christ and giving you the desire to follow Christ's teachings. This of course is very similar to the how stories like the prodigal son works regardless if it was an actual historical event ,which we understand that it's not. Ask yourself these questions: With all the technology available to us today, and the hundreds of billions of dollars in resources, why do you think the church would pull out of all archaeological digs in the 1970's and issue a warning to members not to pursue efforts to find Book of Mormon geography, because it would be fruitless? While the foundational beliefs regarding the divine origin of the Book of Mormon remain consistent, why has there has there been a shift in emphasis in recent years to focus more on the spiritual and doctrinal teachings found in the book, rather than its historical details. This shift in emphasis is reflected in President Nelson's statement in 2020 that "the Book of Mormon is not primarily a historical text "and a recent comment from Elder Bednar that "The Book of Mormon is not a book of history". The purpose of this type of language is to gradually groom the members into a new understanding and theology. If you now go to the churches website under Book of Mormon geography it says the following: "Speculation on the geography of the Book of Mormon may mislead instead of enlighten; such a study can be a distraction from its divine purpose. Individuals may have their own opinions regarding Book of Mormon geography and "other such matters" (aka history) about which the Lord has not spoken. However, the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles urge leaders and members not to advocate those personal theories (aka . geography or history) in any setting or manner that would imply either prophetic or Church support for those theories. All parties should strive to avoid contention on these matters. Speaking of the book’s history and geography, President Russell M. Nelson taught: “Interesting as these matters may be, study of the Book of Mormon is most rewarding when one focuses on its primary purpose-to testify of Jesus Christ. By comparison, all other issues are incidental.” There is not a single scientific community that accepts the Book of Mormon as historical, and its not a matter of they just don't know, but rather mounds of scientific evidence against it. However this isn't an attack against the Church, but rather an new awakening with new truths that shift us to a better understanding. Some will embrace it and some will maintain striff in their necks, believing on the traditions of their fathers.

[@beefmaster4]

​@@stevenhenderson9005if it is completely fictional with no historical events, how is it a testament of Christ? Then it's just made up stories of Christ. The testament of Christ comes from him actually visiting people as a real historical event. The Bible has both, fictional and historical stories, but you don't think the BOM does?

[@beefmaster4]

​@@stevenhenderson9005also, the chopping off arms part is certainly possible, interesting that you pick that as an example of impossibility, it has to do with how they were attacking with clubs and the physics of their movement combined with Ammons. I wonder where/how old your studies on the BOM are from.

[@makehetutu5107]

Awesome things discussed here which makes me learn much, much, more of the things that I haven’t learn before, I was a convert, and ever since then , I never leave the church, I anchor in the gospel its an anchor that I would never change. Thank you for this video I will recommend it to my children to listen carefully for their unanswered questions themselves and their friends and learn something from this discussion. I will go to that link and read more of this great understanding of reading and to seek deep for understanding for myself. Once again Thank-you so much. My own opinion for this video is, it depends on us how we think, how we interpret things, how we see things, understand and MOSTLY avoid social media, that is the tool that destroys you, your inner strength, soul and makes you doubt your faith and all that you do good before become a fallen state. I believe also, you cannot be alone without the people in the church, like it says, the Book-of Mormon cannot go without the Bible and vice versa, we cannot survive without the church. Many more example in the both books. Listening to our Living Prophet is His message to us, to help us stay safe with our human mind wondering. I am satisfy with what I learned and I am as well with what I haven’t learn, because in due time I will learn it through my connections with my Father in Heaven.

[@joannenardoni17]

I love Book of Mormon, I love how it testifies of Christ, my savior on every page. Thanks

[@dinocollins720]

Bro Griffin is the best professor I've ever taken!!!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

He knows his stuff!

[@dinocollins720]

@@SaintsUnscripted no doubt!!!

[@ronbrewer3493]

I love the church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints. I had polio when I was two years old. I walk with two leg braces and crutches. At times I have wanted to hate God for how painful life has been .then I think of myself as a young child not wanting to do his homework. Increases opposition can be increased growth if our attitude is right. I have coined the thought. The essence of life is growth and to become and to overcome. A baby can grow up and become an adult. We as real children of real Heavenly parents trying to grow it is not always easy . .we are at sometimes like a child wanting to grow up but again not wantwanting to do our homework. No pain no gain. We are here for purposes and reasons.

[@spellbindery1]

Thank you. I can really relate to your comments in many ways. So they are edifying to me.

[@mccaf87]

There's a reason that Christ told us to bear our crosses. There is growth in the struggle. Now is the time for men to prepare to meet God.

[@lindam4092]

Jake, I struggled with the length of time it took to correct the Priesthood band. One day I felt the Lord say to me, “Look where we are today.” I thought of Pres Nelson and Rev Brown’s close relationship, the other organizations and the scholarships the church has offered. I could have counsel the Lord and said but…. I chose to receive the Lord’s counsel. It has been answered enough for me. I am at rest with the issue.

[@coleenburris6816]

The best explanation of the Sacrament. Thank you.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thanks for watching!

[@johnthompson2256]

Tyler mentions strengths and weakness of the church, perhaps the body of the church. This came up in our Sunday School yesterday when the thought came to me of Steel. Steel is a combination of Iron, strong in and of itself, and carbon, which in most forms is weak. But the combination of the two in a matrix is stronger than the iron by itself. Iron surrounding the carbon makes a stronger material, or whole. Just something to ponder on.

[@Sayheybrother8]

Maybe the church is iron and the members the carbon?

[@johnthompson2256]

@@Sayheybrother8 Hi Anthony. In the scriptures iron is often the word of God. As in the hymn, "hold to the rod, the iron rod,... the iron rod is the word of God.." Or David collecting iron to form nails for the temple which then nails in Ecclesiastes 12:11 The words of the wise ..as nails fastened by the masters. I think you are correct with carbon being us as our sun at best can only form carbon, but if we surround ourselves with the words of the wise; the scriptures, the best books, etc. Then we are like steel, the sum better than the components. Have a great day. JT

[@melissahdawn]

​@johnthompson2256 I love that idea. I was challenged today to find truth everywhere, and you just pointed out the biggest most obvious truth. Even the way the sun, the most powerful star in our solar system, cannot fuse something strong enough to exist outside our realm, a church can. It is so much like the way the Elves figure out a way to use the tiny bit of mythril they get from the dwarves in "The Rings of Power", by combining weaker elements to produce something far stronger. I like to see myself as a weak counterpart combining with other weak elements by attending church... a little water can do alot to save the world, who'd have thought. Again, thank you for pointing that out!

[@johnthompson2256]

That’s going into the way back machine. I have all things to testify that there is a God. Nature is chock full of testimonies, we just need our eyes open and allow the spirit to speak. Peace to you.

[@reelikab1185]

When you start thinking in the lines of "Ask not what your church can do for you but what you can do for your church" God never fails to put people on your path who's heads you can lift, who's testimonies you can strengthen. But that is the law of sacrifice and law of consecration. But first - we need to learn to be obedient.

[@purplerain0517]

This was so very much needed by me. As someone who is a non practicing bisexual Mormon recovering alcoholic with ADHD... I completely understand faith crisis. I don't necessarily think that all homosexual tendencies are ALL "Satan's influence." (Not that he doesn't play his role..) But, I think that it can literally be part of our genetic make-up. It is very real, and very hard to come to terms with when my religious beliefs conflict with what I can't help but feel emotionally, or physically. But maybe this is part of MY trial. Maybe, (in order to really reach my full potential) I need to set aside my own personal, physical, or sexual attraction, or my addiction, or pride, and rely more on my faith, that Heavenly Father knows what's best for me, for whatever reason. What ever strength I lack I know Jesus is already there, pulling me and guiding me. I DON'T know the way, without Him! He's my PERFECT, and Omnipotent, and loving, and compassionate, and empathetic Savior! I don't understand a lot. But I believe. "I believe." is a very short statement. But it holds the weight of eternity. Whatever I struggle with - regardless of whether or not I find relief in this life, or the life to come - I KNOW that my efforts, my struggles, and my faith will not go unnoticed. Any struggle. Addiction, sexuality, gender identity, self esteem issues, depression, anxiety, mental illness, physical illness, pride.... all of it is part of the refiners fire. ...the harder the struggle, the Stronger the spirit! He KNOWS I am strong enough with my faith combined with His power! I know I'd gain SO MUCH approval from so many people, by doing what I want, regardless of whether it was right or wrong. But... I REEEEEAAAALLLY wanna see what Heavenly Father has in store for me. ....especially considering all the crap that I have endured so far! Sometimes, my ONLY solace is the knowledge that Jesus KNOWS EXACTLY what I'm going through. ...Knowing He KNOWS and yet still urges me to keep going, and doesn't change His mind - it's comforting. I gotta trust Him! I gotta have faith, even if I don't understand everything. This is part of the grand adventure called our mortal existence . We literally signed up for this. We got this!

[@senkyoshi]

Thank you for sharing this! I struggle with Depression and Anxiety. Somedays are very hard. I have considered taking my own life many times. Working to strengthen my relationship with Jesus Christ keeps me going. This has made me stronger.

[@purplerain0517]

@@senkyoshi I'm so glad you haven't taken your own life! Keep going, my sweet brother! I know this journey is hard. Satan capitalizes the crap out of our weaknesses, but that is only because he knows what we're capable of accomplishing, and is terribly threatened by that knowledge! It sucks, no doubt...but in a weird way, it's kind of empowering. Satan is literally threatened by you, and me. The master of evil is THREATENED by us! And that's because he knows that with Christ, he has no power! I struggled for 39 years with severe depression and anxiety that was actually caused by undiagnosed ADHD. (I always thought it just meant hyper and unfocused.. until 2 months ago.) I was on antidepressants for almost 20 years, and they helped...but I still struggled and couldn't figure out why. (Until I came across an ADHD tiktok, and it was like seeing a bright light at the end of a tunnel..) Whatever the root of your depression, be it actual clinical depression, or a byproduct of another issue, please get medical treatment. Heavenly Father blessed us with the opportunity to live in a day and age where mental health is able to addressed, and managed. It's a bit of a journey for those of us who suffer from mental illness, or mental disorders, for sure. But... here's the coolest thing. Our struggles with mental illness only make us more compassionate, and empathetic toward others. We are a light for others! Satan wants to blow out that light, before it can spread. I don't know about you, but... I've struggled for too long, and too hard to let that rotten turd bucket get the satisfaction of snuffing out my light! We got this, because we've got Jesus! I believe in you, even though we've never met (in this life). But, most importantly, GOD BELIEVES IN YOU. ... He's all knowing, and all powerful...so if HE believes in you... you DEFINITELY got this!

[@mca4093]

When you put eternal spirits into mortal bodies, then seed them into a fallen world.....things are bound to get crazy. Hang on. The Christ has overcome the world.

[@spellbindery1]

Beautiful, powerful testimony and faith. Thank you.

[@trishachristensen7667]

Life is truly a struggle. I commend you for your desire to see what the Lord has in store for you. I commend you for not taking the easy way of the world. It would be so easy to let your passions and desires to get the best of you. We all have our battles to fight. I know in the end all will be made right. I know life is tough, but with building each other up in the faith we can do it. We have God on our side every minute of every day. Thank you for your words!

[@owenlawson4115]

You are doing a great job keep up the good work and don't get discouraged.

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

This was a wonderful discussion! Thank you for being vulnerable. ☀️💕

[@jonatans9599]

What a great podcast. Thanks be to God!

[@codyspendlove8986]

@ 33:40... "We need each other to build Zion"... that is profound. I can be a believer, good person, possibly a saint all on my own. But I can NOT build Zion alone. 🤯

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Such a good point!

[@maryelms4821]

I love the book of Mormon. I know that it is the word of God. Thank you for your time in doing this podcast. I enjoyed very much 😊

[@SaintsUnscripted]

We're glad you enjoyed it ☺

[@mrsjonse]

Mining for gospel gold takes time. The honest effort is essential... and cannot be given. We all have to honestly dig... and experience the sweat... and the exquist and enduring joy as those efforts finally expose veins of gospel gold that can be discovered and known in no other way. Joseph Smith said it this way... "A fanciful and flowery and heated imagination be aware of, because the things of God are of deep import, and time and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out, thy mind O Man, if thou wilt lead a soul into Salvation must stretch as High as the utmost Heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and expanse of eternity. Thou must commune with God..."

[@SeanyeMidWest]

I have often pondered on why faith is so essential to God's plan. I feel common answers in the church are to gain experience or to be tested. These answers have lost their strength for me personally. As I have pondered, it seems that mortality is hard enough that we could gain experience and be tested even with a perfect knowledge of God. What I have landed on, is that faith is essential for us to build a relationship with God. From my middle school days, I know that the Mitochondria is the Powerhouse of the cell, but I don't have any emotional connection with that fact. In college I spent 4 years studying economics. The sweat and effort I put into understanding economics led me to develop an emotional connection with the subject. If we just knew that God existed, if was just a fact that everyone knew, there would not be any need to search Him out. Faith requires us to reach out through studying the words of the prophets and through faith. Faith requires us to really come to know Christ and our Father in Heaven through effort and truly searching after them. This is what we are taught in John 17:3, "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ". As I have searched to build my faith, I have truly built a relationship with God and with my Savior. This has become my main purpose in life: to build a relationship with God.

[@spellbindery1]

Powerful comments to me. Thank you.

[@michaelcrowley9008]

I really appreciate these words placed so well together. I Totally agree. We need our own experiences to build a relationship with God. With my Savior. Your Savior. Their Savior. It's individual relationships between God and man that are Key to all of this. And is shown in all the Holy Scriptures to be the path of all the examples of people's lives. Consequences of every action of faith. Consequences of every rebellion.

[@ceejayl371]

Knowing about God is different from knowing God. Certainly, learning about the attributes of God is not all- we must build a relationship with Him, to truly know Him. You are right. He is not some distant, obscure Being that we must worship and study from afar, but a Being that we must draw on, rely on, and call upon every day of our lives.

[@robertlaw8510]

I enjoyed the video. I find that taking the sacrament each Sunday is a special time. The taking of the sacrament when you are not in the building on Sunday is under the direction of the Bishop. During covid when we couldn't go to the chapel on Sunday, those who had the priesthood were allowed to have the sacrament in their home. It was special for my son and I to be able to perform that ordinance for my family. I remember a time in the late 60's when I was a deacon or teacher, my family went on a month long trip where some Sundays we weren't near to a chapel. My father received special permission from out bishop to perform the sacramental ordinance to our family in the trailer we were pulling. Those instances though rare were special to me and my family when I was growing up and now when I'm a father and have children of my own.

[@eternalskywalker9440]

When I was 14 our scout troop went on a 50 mile hike. We had authorization from the bishop to have the sacrament on Sunday. It was a memorable experience-on a mountain top far from civilization. Peaceful.

[@elizabethholmes7462]

Thank you loved listening to Tyler ❤️

[@ivaxnog6157]

Fairlatterdaysaints channel has some recent videos on this. And of course book of Mormon central and scripturePlus.

[@EricLovesCHRIST]

Tyler has something special

[@iliek3102]

I felt the Spirit. TY

[@ethanaylett]

I love your film set!

[@rogervaldez-vi5hq]

Feast on the word of god

[@catherinehawkins3302]

Stopping me from leaving past spiritual experiences. And a future with my heavenly father and jesus christ. We are all on a learning courve and its between you and god. Every one will explain things differently understand differently. and some blown from one to another some stead fast. Dont listen to negs. Be possitive that you want to be like jesus ad follow him. ❤

[@ricardocoelhocardoso9622]

Wow, this episode was amazing!

[@UVJ_Scott]

EVERYTHING Joseph Smith revealed is AMAZING!

[@caseykaelin9430]

At 28:53 Tyler says when Christ picked his apostles in the BOM. I have never seen where Christ calls them apostles, disciples yes apostles no. Does anyone know how Tyler comes to the conclusion they were apostles? I used to believe they were apostles, but when I was challenged on it and I could not prove it.

[@ScriptureNotes]

Moroni chapter 2 contains that answer, also Ether 12:41.

[@caseykaelin9430]

@@ScriptureNotes It is still unclear if Jesus is referring to his apostles in Jerusalem or if he had apostles on this continent.

[@ScriptureNotes]

@@caseykaelin9430 Moroni says apostles have power to give the Holy Ghost to others by the laying on of hands. Now x-ref 3 Nephi 18:37: "And the multitude heard not the words which he spake, therefore they did not bear record; but the disciples bare record that he gave them power to give the Holy Ghost. And I will show unto you hereafter that this record is true." When we look at Moroni 2:2 now we can see that Moroni is clearly identifying them as apostles: "And he called them by name, saying: Ye shall call on the Father in my name, in mighty prayer; and after ye have done this ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall give the Holy Ghost; and in my name shall ye give it, for thus do mine apostles."

[@caseykaelin9430]

@@ScriptureNotes In the church today elders have the power to give the Holy Ghost, they do not have to be apostles. Could it not be a similar situation with the Nephites? Of course one could argue if they weren't apostle where did they get the authority to lead the church? I think it would have been simpler if Moroni would have referred to them as apostles and not disciples.

[@ScriptureNotes]

@@caseykaelin9430 here's something to consider. First, is Moroni 2:3: "Now Christ spake these words unto them at the time of his first appearing; and the multitude heard it not, but the disciples heard it; and on as many as they laid their hands, fell the Holy Ghost." So clearly Moroni is talking about the Nephite disciples being apostles (special witnesses of the resurrected Savior). Second, what do we hear in the church today? The laying on of hands is an injunction to be worthy to have the Holy Ghost fall upon you and to go to work sanctifying yourself to let it happen. What we don't have today are apostles confirming people and having the baptism of fire take place immediately after the baptism of water. The Nephites had elders and we know it wasn't just apostles baptizing and confirming members. Was there something different about when an apostle confirms an individual versus someone else? I don't know. Something to ponder, but we can clearly see the Nephite's had apostles.

[@rconger384]

...fourth most influential book...

[@ThreeD.s]

Is it a Faith crisis or a Lazy crisis?? I know for me, it’s harder to go physically to church since the pandemic! It was so nice to stay home😜. It’s a good thing we have callings that make us go!

[@gatecrashercanadamb]

how should I test things through the test of truth?

[@SaintsUnscripted]

The scriptures teach us that we should study, reflect and apply the principle or teachings to our life, and then pray to God for confirmation of the things we've learned through our studies, reflections, and application.

[@kimberlytousley3450]

❤️

[@bradcurtis5324]

The basis of my faith is Jesus Christ. Without him there is nothing. I am the steward of my faith in Christ. I must pursue it and deepen my fellowship with Jesus with action, prayer and study. The correct Church is the structure where all the ordinances I need to do that are found. The people serving in that structure are not perfect, nor am I. In the old and new testament there is only one who was perfect, Jesus Christ the savior. All the other people, kings and prophets made mistakes and fell short of perfection. The Church is not the steward of my faith in Christ, I am. I am not discouraged when flaws or mistakes are found in the leadership or my fellow saints. We are not perfect and are all walking the same road of growth. When a Prophet gives revelation, at the time it may seem disconnected, but I wait, pray, and in time, maybe a year or decade later it becomes very clear why it was given and we are prepared for the warning or event. So keep your faith in Christ forward in your life and stay in the church with its correct structure and all it's flawed human beings and help lift your brethren to greater faith in Christ. If I think to criticize and see flaws, I look inward first and work on mine. It keeps me plenty busy. Thank the Lord for his mighty Grace.

[@knotskieskyramirez9491]

The role of the leaders today, primarily is to oversee the affairs of the church, the principles, and doctrines of the gospel. All queries are answerable by the scriptures joined together, bible, book of Mormon, and all revelations received by Joseph Smith, the prophet of our dispensation.

[@stevenhenderson9005]

Is the BOM teaching a Protestant theology?

[@rogervaldez-vi5hq]

Nephi chap 32 said don't go of the path ,in the field ,hold on to the pillers

[@eriknordquist]

While the Book of Mormon is independent of my opinions, it cannot be independent of its historical, archeological, and genetic records. The evidence from independent sources that confirm or deny its claims about Jewish people populating the Americas can’t be ignored, because those are foundational to the Book’s own identity and origins.

[@kathrynowens3324]

The Book of Mormon stands alone whether there's a church built around it or not. The Holy Spirit testifies of its truthfulness. Its another Testament of Jesus Christ to confirm the bible.

[@SeanyeMidWest]

While, The Book of Mormon stands alone whether there's a church built around it or not, The Book of Mormon does teach of the key purpose of The Church: to administer the ordinances by the proper authority. Since the beginning, the key purpose of the Gospel has been to lead us to enter into covenants with our Lord. His power is manifest through the ordinances and covenants; that's the one of the key lessons of The Old Testament and The Book of Mormon. That is why The Book of Mormon is so important for me, because it testifies that the covenants I have made with The Lord are true, and that the power that the Ancient Israelites had access to through keeping their covenants is available to us today.

[@vendingdudes]

Who is this Jake person?

[@nathanfinstad4333]

Are there any critical posts permitted, any truly critical???????

[@lynnmorrison]

The more I read the Book of Mormon, I find something else that tells me this BOOK IS TRUE. If the BOOK is true, than THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS IS TRUE.

[@allthingsarepossiblethruchrist]

Are you sure that is logical conclusion. There were lots of break offs from the original church Joseph Smith restored. You would need to ask the Lord personally of He considers this His Church and if all the men claiming to be called of God really are.

[@letusreasontogether1168]

Why do we need an organized religion and not just a book of scripture? The Book of Mormon and the Bible contain the words of Christ and the Gospel of Salvation, however, they are just inanimate objects. They, of themselves have no authority or power. The Priesthood has the power and authority for Salvation and Exaltation. The Church was established by the authority of the Priesthood to distribute the ordinances required for Salvation and Exaltation in an organized and uniform way. The Priesthood now resides within the Church and the Church is governed by it. The scriptures and the Holy Ghost can lead us to the truth but without the authority we cannot receive the wonderful gifts the Father wishes to give us.

[@kathrynowens3324]

Church management flaws don't mean the BOM is not true. I find the church is creeping slowly to the left due to CV19. Those two issues must be separated.

[@trishachristensen7667]

I find following what the prophet says, keeps us on the straight and narrow. I am not sure COVID has any part of the left or right. It's is real and I am not sure how this was a left or right issue. I had it and it felt like a cold. I didn't feel that it came from a left or right winged anything. You may need to explain your self more ☺️

[@kentskoien7583]

Nothing stands between you and leaving the Church. The teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are the truth. Because the Church is as the name tells you , the true Church. One of the truths God has revealed to us is that He has given us agency. I f you want to leave His Church, that is entierly up to you. You are free to do what you want.

[@rogervaldez-vi5hq]

The church is true ,people lack faith ,when Jesus said walk on water ,I can't ,,,?, Ye of little faith

[@knotskieskyramirez9491]

Before all we know now is the Holy Ghost.

[@rogervaldez-vi5hq]

Grand canyon proof

[@NKDV76]

Read the book of Galatians in the HOLY BIBLE (real scripture) and "bye bye" book of mormon / pearl of great price and D&C! The truth will set you free.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Hi there! We actually study and use the Bible as part of our scriptural canon. Currently in our Sunday school classes for this year, we're focused on studying the New Testament. Regarding the scripture in Galatians, I'm sure you're referencing the scripture that talks about another angel teaching a different gospel (Galatians 1 vs 8). In context with that particular verse, I'd like to ask if you've ever read the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, or Pearl of Great Price?

[@rogervaldez-vi5hq]

The world was so evil at one time ,god flooded the earth

[@kenhilker2507]

What I'm missing is WHY you believe in the book of Mormon so strongly. What's the biggest reason you think it's true?

[@rockartalan]

For me it's the love of God I feel every time I read from it. I don't have to read it very long before I am more aware of what I can do better or how I can love better and be better. It is just pure goodness. Whenever my commitment to being on the covenant path wavers, I can just remember the Book of Mormon and the impossibility of it not being what it claims to be. I have found this to be true both spiritually and academically. Once you study the details enough it becomes apparent that it was impossible for anyone, but especially someone like Joseph Smith in his time and circumstances to have just made it up.

[@jakejakeman4591]

I think there are four ways we can use together to have a knowledge that it's true. Lawrence corbridge from the seventy taught that we learn 4 methods to learn truth. 1. Scientific method: try living the teachings and see if it is of God or not. John 7:16-17 "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." 2. Analytical method: "study it out in your mind" gather and weigh the evidences to form a conclusion. 3. Academic method: Study the words. Hear the stories. Count the blessings. D&C 84:85 "Treasure up in your minds continually the words of life." And finally the most important 4. The divine method: tap in the powers of heaven by asking God what he thinks about the book and what he wants you to believe about it. Answers can take time. Consider fasting on the matter. The lord will make it known through his holy spirit. Moroni 10:5 "And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." Also John 14:26

[@ChristianAuditore14]

Why do you think people would obey God if he spoke from the "heavens"(

[@LoganBeck]

I used to believe in the Book of Mormon. But then I realized, just like anything else in the world, for something to be true, it needs to have supporting evidence to prove its authenticity. Sadly the Book of Mormon has NONE.

[@Sunshine-eo2sp]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d16oo2qsltOqbKM If you care at all here's a video about Book of Mormon evidences. I know it's long but my favorite starts at 9:45

[@PapaKryptoss]

Oh ye of little faith. Any thing that is positive and teaches of Christ can't be proven

[@LoganBeck]

@@PapaKryptoss same thing applies for the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Greek Theology and so much more. And I’m not a man of little faith, I have absolutely none of it. If I were to have faith in something proven to not exist I would just be living in a life of self deception, ignorance shouldn’t be glorified.

[@applebottomjeans333]

And it’s not just that there is no evidence in support of the Book of Mormon, it’s that there’s a bunch of evidence *against* the Book of Mormon. So many anachronisms, so many racist teachings, direct contradictions with archaeological and dna evidence

[@PapaKryptoss]

@@LoganBeck we are all ignorant. Get some faith in something then come back.

[@chubbuck35]

I’ve found that feelings are not a reliable source of discovering actual truth (IE is the Book of Mormon a true historical record). It is a great way to confirm something you want to be true. This is called elevation emotion. Look into it. Also, something being a good message (ie incentivizes to serve others) is not the same as something being true. Did Nephi exist or not? The book having a good message inside it has nothing to do if Nephi actually wrote those words.

[@owenlawson4115]

I looked it up. It said on Wikipedia that this emotion was felt after witnessing acts of kindness. I have felt this so called elevation emotion just sitting down and thinking. I can feel it every second of every day. Does this fit elevation emotion?

[@wildcathawkins]

People receive particular answers in this faith. Praying and experiencing small miracles that no one else can corroborate. It's not just feelings.

[@chubbuck35]

@@owenlawson4115 yes, all of what you described falls into the elevation emotion category. The problem. Elevation emotion is a wonderful thing to experience as a human. The problem is when organizations such as the LDS church link the feeling of those warm “burning in the bosom” things to mean something is “true” or that their organization is the “one true church”. This unfortunately is something that many organizations do, including cults. It is not a reliable way of discovering truth. This is not something I’m just making up, look up any cult, including cults that believed fantastical things or even resulted in mass suicides. They all use similar tactics that fall into the BITE model. They manipulate their members by associating their “good feelings” with their org being right and true. I thank God that the LDS church is a GOOD organization that unwittingly causes harm through its divisive teachings regarding LGBTQ, etc. but by-in-large is good with GREAT people. Being a largely good organization, however, does not change the fact that using elevation emotion is a faulty and damaging tactic to use to trick its members to think they are part of something exclusively “true”. This is what is referred to as undue influence. It’s a mild form of brainwashing. Look all of it up and good luck 👍🏻

[@chubbuck35]

@@wildcathawkins my friend, that is precious that you think your religion is unique. Every religion does the same thing. Look up audio and video of sacrament meetings of FLDS members testifying in a manner you will find eerily familiar. They testify Warren Jeffs is God’s prophet on the earth the same way you testify about President Nelson. Look up the video “spiritual witnesses” on KZbin. Islam, Judaism, you name it. They all have spiritual witnesses that they are part of the unique truth. I know it feels good to be unique and your confirmation bias really wants that to be true but unfortunately yours is only unique in it’s doctrine, not it’s claim to being “true”.

[@wildcathawkins]

@@chubbuck35 calling me precious is rude pal.

[@kirklandmeadows]

How can faith help you when the book of Mormon said God is no respecter of race and the Prophets say that God is a respecter.

[@JacobWHill]

Try having faith and then maybe God will give you an answer to that question

[@kirklandmeadows]

@@JacobWHill So I should try having faith first then God may tell me which one is his true and which one not true. If you have faith maybe you can share your answer with me.

[@JacobWHill]

@@kirklandmeadows Sure thing. Faith always precedes answers/miracles/any response from God. And before faith comes belief. Before belief, a desire to believe. In regards to your question, we know that prophets are only men. Imperfect men just doing what they can. While what they say may not be infallible, prophets will never lead the church astray from its core mission of gathering Israel and leading people to Christ. In this way, imperfect men magnify their calling as prophet not by being perfect, but by leading us to the perfect man. Not a great answer, I know. Try praying first and then maybe read this article: bit.ly/2Qyr6Cd

[@owenlawson4115]

@@kirklandmeadows "Faith without works is dead" You have to prove that you want to learn the truth. Then you will get your answer. I can't explain it well enough.

[@kirklandmeadows]

@@owenlawson4115Interesting; How and who do I prove my desire for truth( to)?