What The Heck Is Happening With That $25,000 Tesla? - AAH 690

TOPICS:
- What’s happening with that $25,000 car Tesla was supposed to come out with?
- That small $25,000 EV that Ford’s working on, is that really a good idea?
- Do Americans really want a small car?
- Could Toyota blind side everyone by coming out with a killer EV as revolutionary as the first Prius?
PANEL:
- Doron Levin, SeekingAlpha
- Bob Gritzinger, Wards
- Gary Vasilash, shinymetalboxes.net
- John McElroy, Autoline.tv
INSTAGRAM: / autolinenetwork
TWITTER: / autoline
FACEBOOK: / autolinenetwork
WEBSITE: www.autoline.tv

[@stevenst56]

Back in January, Tesla said that initial production for the ‘$25K car’, would be in Austin. Try to keep up, guys. It was pretty widely reported.

[@JohnLee-]

Lay off 10% workforce , do they no need more people to produce $ 25k car ?

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@JohnLee- No, less people to make it cheaper.

[@chriscoleman3399]

These guys make me realize why legacy auto is so far behind.

[@cathyk9197]

John McElroy understands the inevitability of EV's

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Legacy auto companies have already caught up and are producing better quality vehicles with newer technology.

[@DarkBrandon1]

Yep! These are also the same guys who said EVs weren’t possible to build, Tesla will never succeed, etc. and now we’re asking them how Tesla and EVs can improve? 😆

[@gazlives]

@@hwirtwirt4500 lol

[@rkalla]

LOL yep

[@thumper1747]

Ford: announced at one price and then tried selling it at double that price. Then there was the behaviour of the dealers…

[@hayduke4589]

Falling Lightning prices spurred me to check one out recently. Amazed at the string of lies that came out of the salesman’s mouth. And I live in a very EV popular region.

[@williamerazo3921]

Bingo

[@williamerazo3921]

@@hayduke4589bingo. I was waiting for Expedition EV but it’s to GM them

[@danubiosalas4231]

Every time someone mention “cybertruck is more expensive than promised” I want to remind them, the promise was to make it comparable to F-150. That was always the bench mark. How have price changed on full size, 4x4, double cabin, 6.5 feet bed trucks?

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Right, and the Cyberflop sells for 40K and has 500 miles of range.

[@ultrastoat3298]

Thank goodness for John McElroy.

[@rp9674]

He good

[@danubiosalas4231]

He and Sandy Munro have been able to open the mind and see the change coming. So many other “experts” can not see the light. Freaking Cybertruck channge the whole internal electric system (since 1950’s) and the steering paradigm (since forever) and these guys are talking about looks.

[@patrickcarey393]

Mr. Levin did not seem to know that giga castings are not just an idea but have been in use for some time now. To reveal his lack of knowledge about current technology so early in the program makes one wonder if we should put any credence on anything else he says whether it seems to make sense or not.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Giga Casting is just marking BS, it's meaningless except to tesla fanboys.

[@ws6002]

​@hwirtwirt4500 Closer to a manufacturing revolution. Who is leading the way in Gigacastings? Tesla. And who is the only company in North America or Europe who makes money on EVs? Tesla. Volkswagen is, I would say, a pretty big car manufacturer. Herbert Diess was the CEO. According to Mr. Diess, Tesla takes one half as many labor hours to make a car compared to VW.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@ws6002 Is the "Giga" press responsible for the worst in the industry build quality or is it just management incompetence?

[@coloradoan2199]

@@hwirtwirt4500 - From October 2023, Ford is also adopting the gigacasting methodology. Search "ford-acquires-giga-press-machine-currently-used-by-tesla"

[@rp9674]

Well aaactually...

[@krkope8277]

Every guest on this shows talks like they long for the good old days of the rotary dial phone.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Says the generation that can't do basic math or algebra without a calculator.

[@ultrastoat3298]

Back in the good old days you hated to see too many zeros in a phone number.

[@coloradoan2199]

@@hwirtwirt4500 - This engineer and physician has used a calculator since high school. I do confess I have no idea what to do with a slide rule.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@coloradoan2199 So tesla fanboys call themselves engineers and physicians now. I'm impress with the level of BS.

[@paul8699]

I like that John is answering the questions along with the guests.

[@danubiosalas4231]

I love how they say “nobody will buy a Cybertruck to work, because they are ugly”. Business owners care primarily about numbers, money. When you save in gas, brakes, transmission, oil changes, etc; they will go for the electric. Only John seems to be able to see it.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

These guys miss tail fins 😂

[@cathyk9197]

Sandy Munro and John are buddies, so John gets it. We already see business Cybertrucks in California. There will be more types of small businesses that start using Cybertrucks as prices fall and the aftermarket accessory market develops.

[@danubiosalas4231]

@@cathyk9197 I remember that first time Sandy evaluated the Model 3. As Sandy’s opinion have changed, he comes back to AutoLine and updates John and the regulars. These visitors today are thinking like 2001, seling trucks on looks and expecting updates by the year model. We know Tesla innovates ASAP, basically every week.

[@wineberryred]

The Cybertruck is a magnet for eyeballs, there isn't a better way to advertise.

[@ethanwelner1230]

Business owners aren't buying 80 thousand dollar electric trucks that aren't capable of any actual fleet duties, have super long wait times to even get one, and have extremely rare spare parts and lengthy service queues. The cybertruck is kind of a joke from a business perspective. It's literally nothing but a toy for rich people to get bored of after a year or two.

[@cesartrujillo4190]

Not sure Wards auto added anything to the conversation

[@ShumaBot]

No one ever touched on the idea that truck buyers don't want EVs and EV buyers don't want trucks. This group really needed some newer blood. The dude who didn't even know what a giga casting is really didn't belong on the panel at all. Im not sure what he really has to share of any value. He seems like an annoying lamen with an axe to grind.

[@TeslaHugestFan]

All old guys talking about future of tech

[@richardkule9384]

Uninformed old guys.

[@spartanbike2260]

@@richardkule9384 exactly. one guy mentioned the battery are not their yet. but we know CATL has started mass production on M3P battery. cheap / more range. ford is building a new battery plant to use the tech. problem it will take another 1 year to bring to market. gm invested in more expensive battery chemistry . problem

[@PraisinNation]

@@richardkule9384 sad to say (and I am an 'old guy') you're right...buncha old guys totally out of touch...

[@joewilder]

So may statements are so wrong. The charging infrastructure is what messed everything up. People couldn't rely on it. It all worked for Testla because you could count on being able to charge it. The others were nightmare after nightmare. Then the others had to grovel to be able to use Tesla's chargers. Not a good look. "Look at us, we can now use Tesla's chargers??""

[@bobbybishop5662]

Ask the people that we're stranded in Chicago how well the Tesla chargers work . Some of them quit too.

[@joewilder]

@@bobbybishop5662 This is not right. It might be true about the odd case, but Tesla charger reliability rate is 99.5% uptime, compared to 72.5% for all EV chargers.

[@davidws5439]

Low cost vehicles. My friend just bought a brand new Tesla model Y long range Ultra Red with a tow hitch and transferred FSD for $38,435.50, no trade, paid cash with 9 miles on it. 😊

[@bru512]

Great value

[@jimdetry9420]

Every time they talk about EVs they seem to wheel out the AARP brigade.

[@cathyk9197]

Meanwhile, I'm busy extolling the benefits of having a Tesla with FSD to our local AARP brigade. Most seniors I put in a Tesla simply LOVE supervising the FSD!

[@rp9674]

Yay, ageism

[@stickynorth]

@@rp9674 Deflection much?

[@joebachmeier6747]

Thats the face of Seeking Alpha?!?! He even looks like he knows nothing

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Anyone truly seeking alpha should not read Seeking Alpha.

[@bru512]

Seeking Alpha is mostly a dumpster fire. 95% of the authors have the same knowledge as the Wards' auto guy.

[@williamerazo3921]

Good truck with the Lighting. I blame dealers with Market adjustment price . When they were pricing the truck 20k over MSRP

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Dealers hate EVs.

[@wineberryred]

The panelists need to watch Dirty Tesla's family road trip from Michigan to Florida in a Cybertruck.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Will never happen. They only read there own MSM trade rags.

[@DarkBrandon1]

Or the Out of Spec EV truck race across America

[@jorgecintron9674]

It’s very obvious none of these guys actually own an EV. Theory is one thing but when you own one you’ll know. Other than John, the rest are clueless. I feel like Steve Jobs yelling at the board about the IMac, EV’s are over priced.once the price comes down people will buy them in droves. Think about it, if it isn’t about price and it’s a “demand problem” then why not let the Chinese into the market. Oh wait!

[@normt430]

See what H/K and Toyota economy sedans have done to everyone else. Basically leaves others with SUVs and pickups.

[@cathyk9197]

Most Americans don't realize a new Tesla Model Y is $37,500 or gently used is $31,000🥰 And don't even get me started on how much a Tesla saves on fuel, maintenance, and insurance!

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@cathyk9197 Hertz car rental is selling used Model S sedans for around 20K. The reason for selling them is repair, maintenance and insurance cost which are significantly more than ICE vehicles. This is based their purchase of over 20,000 vehicles.

[@juliahello6673]

@hwirtwirt4500 What? I said A Model S for less than $20k? Went to Hertz, of the many Teslas one was under $20k. And it was a Model 3. Searching again it looks like they don’t sell Model S’s.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@hwirtwirt4500 Hertz had no clue how to rent EVs. No chargers, staff uninformed. They bought at high prices and now they're crying because new ones are cheaper. As for maintenance .... what's that? I've been shopping for one but all the Teslas are high priced and high mileage. There are very few Bolts, they're all ugly colors and you can buy a brand new one for about the same price with the rebate. They're selling as they age out, not dumping them all, just like other cars..

[@TotallyNotARoboto]

You guys couldn’t be more wrong about cybertruck demand. And byd didn’t retain their sales leadership in ev’s after q1.

[@normt430]

Silverado EV has sold more than Cybertruck!

[@TotallyNotARoboto]

@@normt430lol, the Silverado seems fine. It can’t be worse than the hummer.

[@MyUniversalUniversity]

@@normt430 That is funny, 443 where sold in Q4 2023!!!! Cyber truck sold over 500 in the same quarter, with 5 weeks of deliveries. It will make over 200k this year!!! I have my reservation in!!!!

[@taylorc2542]

@@normt430 Source? I think Tesla is making close to 300 a day now.

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@normt430 How many customers bought Silverado EVs? Not dealerships, customers. How many?

[@anhta31]

Interesting to see “automotive experts” so behind. Model S/X are refreshed, 3 refresh is now. Cyber truck is the most talked about car in decades. Byd already gave the sales lead back.

[@taylorc2542]

The Model S has had the same sheet metal for 12 years. It's chassis is twice as old as any other car in the segment.

[@wollinger]

@@taylorc2542lol

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@taylorc2542 Yep. Nothing has changed. Except the price, the speed, the handling, the range, and the electronics. Other than those minor things, exactly the same.

[@tesla_tap]

@@taylorc2542 I've had the orignal Model S (2013) and the 2022 S. I don't think there is a single panel that is the same on my 2022 S as the 2013. Unlike Detroit's brand new model, that has a larger grill than last years model and a new paint color, Tesla actually makes useful changes - upgraded computers, new software, new features, new interiors, new architectures, and a new body. I belive less than 5% is the same on the 2022 as the 2013. (And that 2013 S is still a lot better than most of what legacy auto offers).

[@taylorc2542]

@@tesla_tap Literally all the glass metal, sheet metal, suspension hard points, etc.

[@bugguy1967]

Elon has already stated that Austin was going to start the lower priced car in Austin first. I believe Munro covered that interview.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

That's what's been reported in several different sources.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@BTC_Minarchist Probably just a pilot plant, with bigger production in Mexico. Or, just a slight exaggeration.

[@saff226]

​@@jamesvandamme7786Austin will supply the US Mexico will supply south America

[@TheReal_JG]

​@jamesvandamme7786 yes, that is the plan so far.

[@CSHarvey]

"They need a refresh" they have no idea do they. Everyone else: look, we changed the looks but it's still the same garbage underneath! Tesla: the airframe is mostly the same, but everything under the hood has been evolving constantly "Americans don't want small EVs" It's the 1980 fuel crisis all over again, only now it's unaffordable housing, inflation, and stagnant pay leaving people scrambling for transportation they can afford. Honking great SUVs and Trucks may be desirable, but at the end of the day there's two generations now that need a car for under $25k, and size isn't a criteria. Add in the prospect of being able to have your car pay for itself as a Robotaxi while also earning revenue for Tesla, and sales profits become irrelevant.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Most of Tesla's current vehicles are long in the tooth both outside and under the hood.

[@ShumaBot]

And yet their sales declined despite the magical thinking.

[@danubiosalas4231]

@@hwirtwirt4500you may want to rethink that. Plaid is new, Highland is a refresh.

[@danubiosalas4231]

The Teslas are “long in the tooth” by design. I remember hearing “atemporal, classic” about their design, in order not to change it frequently. Elon do not want the current owners to buy a new one because it looks different. He wants the owner to keep the same car, long warranty, improved by OTA updates as much as possible; and looking “new” similar to the latest model.

[@williamerazo3921]

They do need a refresh for all the vehicles. Model X needs to be eliminated and two new SuV. Mid size SUV style Explorer and Full Size SUV Expedition. They are missing a lot of market segments

[@josephvanorden3782]

Car demand is falling for all cars right now. Full-size trucks are dying. The inventory is overflowing at Ram, Ford, GM, and even Toyota Tundra. This is not an EV story - this is a sales issue for everyone. With the high-interest rates, most people cannot afford cars. Sales are falling for everyone, not just electric cars. Tesla sells directly to customers, so it is seeing the fall in sales first. U.S. dealerships have around 3 million cars in inventory.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Most car sales are up in the first quarter, GM is down slightly and Tesla down significantly.

[@DarkBrandon1]

💯 ICE car companies are now offering way below market interest rates on auto loans as well.

[@HablaCarnage63]

@@hwirtwirt4500not true. They aren’t deliveries. The OEMs are stuffing the channel and calling it a sale. But dealers are refusing allocations.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@HablaCarnage63 Nonsense.

[@MrTeff999]

I find the styling of the Model S timeless. A ten year old Model S still looks current. The Model 3 refresh is perfect.

[@fvgrrghytrrrcg]

Model 3 was just refreshed. I don’t understand why we should look for insights from uninformed speakers.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

I'm here for the laughs, honestly. Gary's ineptitude and anti Tesla bias is reason enough to watch. 🤡

[@cathyk9197]

The refreshed Model 3 sitting in my garage just got the latest version of FSD downloaded yesterday🥰 Robotaxis will exist IRL before we know it!

[@hwirtwirt4500]

A seven year old platform with updated software but with the same generic GM Saturn like external styling with a cheap interior and the worst build quality in the industry.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

@@hwirtwirt4500 keep trying to manifest your dreams 😂

[@DarkBrandon1]

@@hwirtwirt4500I have the 1st gen Model 3, 2018 build. The 2nd gen model 3 has huge upgrades in computer hardware, aerodynamics, battery heat management, range, acceleration, suspension, NVH, and a rear seat screen. But sure, basically the same car 🙄

[@MultiVfc]

new car will first be build on Texas. Elon already confirmed that

[@mart0225]

In May, 2023, Musk said the next factory would in Mexico. What’s to be built there?

[@richardkule9384]

These guys are clueless.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@mart0225also the $25k car. First TX, then possibly Berlin and China. Mexico when ready. The car will be built across Giga factories

[@saff226]

​@@mart0225the next factory is Mexico but they are waiting for local infrastructure upgrades to be completed to support the site. They are currently building a line for the new car at Austin and once completed and ramped they will build Mexico and copy the lines there and Berlin, china and likely india

[@davidlemieux615]

I think they are realizing that infrastructure in Mexico ain’t any faster to build than many US states and Canadian provinces… especially the one I live in which seems to take FOREVER to build anything these days.

[@roxter299roxter7]

Why would you guys believe Reuters and not Musk. The 25k car is not cancelled. They’ve made plans a long time ago and nothing has changed. Mexico is just a muddy field. Where have we heard that before?

[@williamerazo3921]

It’s cancelled

[@rp9674]

musk would never lie

[@nothanks960]

Musk is blow hard and would say and do anything, especially to maintain his stock price.

[@ethanwelner1230]

Because Musk lies every time he opens his mouth? Or do you have your robo taxi and live on mars right now?

[@rp9674]

Careful what you say, you might get banned from getting a $25k robo roadster

[@EwanM11]

"small cars have not done well, except for the Bettle thar sold more per year than VW currently do combined" hmmmm.....

[@daveroush4896]

Why not an Electric Maverick, compact electric truck. Set the starting price at 29900. They would sell!

[@MyUniversalUniversity]

They can't make EV at that low of a price, they will lose 25k per vehicle!!!

[@hayduke4589]

Ford already sells a PHEV Ranger in Australia, and likely will in other markets where F150 sales are low or non existent. There won’t be an EV maverick because it would hurt Lightning sales. See a pattern? Ford is scared to death of hurting any aspect of F150 sales. Look at all the years Jeep ran away with the ball by not having a Wrangler competitor. Now we are “pivoting to hybrids” after Ford abandoned the Energi platform and gave Toyota free throws till the Koreans got hybrids together. Is there any another auto manufacturer so deft at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory than Ford?

[@DarkBrandon1]

I think we will see more EV trucks that are that size. F-150 size EVs are just too expensive to build right now

[@danubiosalas4231]

Conclusions: -Tesla is doomed - Tesla have the best numbers: sales, loyalty, profit margin - everyone else is running to do what Tesla does. -Tesla is doomed. Hahahaha

[@littlebrothermoneywithmich6178]

You’ve said it all!

[@kevtheobald]

Are they sure they cover Tesla. The refreshed Model 3 that do many media outlets give high praise did not come to their minds. Model Y best selling vehicle globally in 2023. Tesla was what many journalists was saying was cute niche company that will be bankrupt by 2018. Tesla is the company that updated parts and software when they see a need and have a solution. No waiting for model years to come around to do updates.

[@jeffg4570]

A couple ideas for future shows: 1. John and Gary go on 500 mile road trip in a Cybertruck. 2. John and Gary go on a three hour trip through several cities in a refreshed Model 3 using FSD 12.3.

[@Do.Not.Believe.The.Narrative]

I am driving, or should I say, my Tesla Model Y is driving me around town in the Northeast. Not just highway, but AROUND TOWN. FSD which is now out of beta but still supervised has been a step change and truly impressive. Tesla is on the verge, don't discount Musk even though his timing is often as he says, aspirational..

[@BTC_Minarchist]

💯 Until you've experienced FSD v12, you just won't understand.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Aspirational = BS

[@BTC_Minarchist]

@@hwirtwirt4500 aspirational= difference between ordinary/meh and extraordinary. Even if only a 10% chance at extraordinary is worth it for pioneers and difference makers. There are also 10% that add little value and only skill is to mock and ridicule the exceptional. We've all seen examples of each.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@BTC_Minarchist A lie is a lie and BS is BS regardless of what you call it. Stop with the lame excuses for this conman.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

@@hwirtwirt4500Is this Mary Barra? Joe Biden?

[@btrts6431]

You guys are wrong. FSD is now advancing quickly with AI technology. The emphasis is now on robotaxis. That is your $25,000 car.

[@brunoheggli2888]

Wrong!

[@taylorc2542]

Correct. Tesla's machine learning is going parabolic.

[@MyUniversalUniversity]

@@brunoheggli2888 Wrong!!!!!

[@davidbeppler3032]

As I have said repeatedly. Why sell a car for $5.5k profit when you can rent it out for $100k profit over 3 years?

[@btrts6431]

@@davidbeppler3032 Bingo!

[@davidws5439]

All you "Experts" do not know what you are talking about. Get it together. Elon Musk has stated many times that the model 2 / $25,000 vehicle is to be made in Austin, TX where all the engineers are and the software teams are. The lines are going in now. Mexico is too far in the distance and too far away from headquarters.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

And you still believe everything that conman says after all this time? Have you learned nothing from his past history of lies and hype.

[@dalazyone109]

Exactly, same as he said at the of 2023 that the next few years will be a difficult time.

[@danubiosalas4231]

@@hwirtwirt4500 you mean the con man that promised to build EVs… and now have the best sold model in the world? The one forcing the whole industry to evolve into EVs?

[@cyclopsvision6370]

It will eventually be made in Mexico, and then exported to South American countries that have free trade agreements with Mexico so Tesla can sell in South American counties without having to pay import duties

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@danubiosalas4231 Did you order the 39K Cyberflop with 500 mile range yet?

[@richardfolden3860]

Yeah, because nothing ever changes ever. 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@MADMAX7330]

Let me save yall the watch.. Wards Auto: 👁 👄 👁 Seeking Alpha: A jealous anti Elon take on everything Gary: A luddite and Anti Tesla narrative peddler John: A fair moderate take, but bulldozed by the clowns above 🤡

[@pspublic13]

So a normal episode then? 😂

[@MADMAX7330]

@@pspublic13 Pretty much 😅

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Best Recap Ever 😂

[@MADMAX7330]

@@BTC_Minarchist I'm just here doing God's work 😅

[@LionheartLivin]

Saw the whole thing, generally agree

[@gnoxycat]

My lady had to rent an ICE car for a company trip. She texts me "These things are Self Crashing Cars! I put it in drive and they start self driving into, anything. Then when I take my foot off the accelerator, it wont slow down, but keep driving into oblivion." This on top of having her go to the gas station ... there is no chance in hell we will every own anything with an ICE engine.

[@cesartrujillo4190]

The refresh attempts to do a push marketing vs pull marketing. We have Teslas and the new ones may look the same but all the upgrades are a big enough reason to upgrade. Our upgrade cycle is slightly longer because of the Tesla stretch. Tesla leans on software for refreshes. I know all the updates are going to make my old car fresh all the time. There are dozens of updates every year. Who else does that?

[@sunrisejak2709]

Tesla model 3 refresh (Highland). The most significant upgrades were not software. Ride quality, noise, exterior updates, stalk removal, seats, rear seat display, interior lighting etc are all hardware upgrades. Continuous software upgrades can only do so much. In my model 3 I find most of the software upgrades to be of little additional value. Nice. But hardly life extending.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Tesla's so called "upgrades" are a farce.

[@CSHarvey]

The Chevy Bolt. Priced starting at $35k, it barely sold 20k units per year before the battery recall. After the recall, GM put it on clearance sale for $25k and they sold over 60k units the last year. It sold well because GM was dumping inventory at costbefore rancelling the line. It was a "my first EV" for GM to figure out "How I make EV?" and the platform was obsolete the year it was launched. GM never planned to produce them past 2024, and the announcement for the Equinox EV at $30k was a clear sign the Bolt was Dead car driving. But here the experts are wondering why GM canceled it.

[@normt430]

Orion, Bolt assembly plant, is being redesigned for Ultium which the Bolt EV/EUV was not based on.

[@DarkBrandon1]

Yep, the Bolt was 💯 a compliance car that GM was prepared to lose money on every car in order to not pay Tesla for carbon credits.

[@rp9674]

Is that you musk, a lot of neg spin on a great deal on a great EV

[@AbleLawrence]

Are these people trying to be dense? Teslas are continually updated

[@Kenlwallace]

“Why would people want an electric car?” As I speak I’m in my toyota Camry Hybrid in slow line to get it serviced and will take most of day and hundreds of dollars. My four year old Model 3 never needs servicing, cost a fraction to run, and drives itself !!! Now, except for FSD it is CHEAPER to buy than the Camry Hybrid. I suppose I can understand “who would buy an EV?” but I can’t understand “who would buy a Tesla?”

[@littlebrothermoneywithmich6178]

Experts? Where?

[@richardkule9384]

In regard to $ 25,000 Tesla E.V. designer Franz von says: "Stay Tuned"

[@rp9674]

$25K robo roadster, check's in the mail. T Fantrolls came to Autoline expecting fawning.

[@littlebrothermoneywithmich6178]

Sure did!

[@foxtrotwolf6081]

A $25k car today after all the inflation, would be equivalent to the base model Geo Metro. It was 1/3 the price of my Civic EX (top of the line bac then). Girlfriend had the Metro, no AC, etc. Looked good on a hot day. By the time she left me, she left with my Honda.

[@btrts6431]

Bob should really do research before comparing the Cybertruck to say a Hummer. The tech difference is 20 years apart. To be a product expert, he doesn’t understand much about kWh difference between the two.

[@conchobar]

Yet the Hummer has more range, better off-road capabilities, and better towing capabilities. Utility trumps technology.

[@mcsike7264]

​@@conchobar The hummer ev?

[@normt430]

The Silverado EV just beat Cybertruck in coast-to-coast race on Out of Spec on KZbin.

[@btrts6431]

@@conchobar The Hummer weighs 9,600 lbs. It has a 246 kWh battery pack. Exactly twice that of the Cybertruck. Most people that buy these won’t even tow anything. Tesla can afford to build 2 Cybertrucks for every Hummer. It’s as though GM has zero electric engineers and it shows in their garbage vehicles.

[@mcsike7264]

@@normt430 i mean makes sense if you have a 200+kW battery vs a 123kw battery and 320 charging while the cyber truck is stuck with teslas 250 so makes sense

[@danubiosalas4231]

John have spent an hour telling the others guys the reality about EVs.

[@ELCEV]

Global world global economy then why can't we have an affordable Chinese EV?

[@hwirtwirt4500]

You can, move to China and live under a communist dictator and work for slave wages.

[@mikedx2706]

Ever hear of tariffs?

[@ELCEV]

@@mikedx2706 no I've been living in a cave, what's a tariff?

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@ELCEV The tariff is 28% because they are Commies, and Joe Biden puts $7500 on the hood of USA cars. so that the UAW endorses him.

[@Jasonfallen71]

“The Camry of EV’s….” does that guy know how Tesla ModelY outsells Camry worldwide?

[@blakepeterson1977]

Traffic goes up with more taxis. Occupied miles stay the same, but unoccupied miles go way up.

[@cathyk9197]

Tesla will use advanced AI to manage their Robotaxi fleet SIZE and vehicle LOCATION deployment across each city minute by minute.They already have the 2nd largest amount of compute on Earth. Eventually, there will be a large amount of excess parking in Robotaxi cities.

[@dclpgh]

Another "caught the Auto industry with their pants down" Moment will occur in August. And the 4 stages of denial will start all over again just like the Model S introduction.

[@mart0225]

That pants down moment was supposed to happen in 2016 then again in 2019 and again in 2024. (Musk claimed volume robotaxi production in 2024.)

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@mart0225Delivering products that are considered impossible takes some time. 😉

[@dclpgh]

@@mart0225 And even with the delays legacy's pants are still grabbing ankle. Ceding defeat and running back to hybrids.(Big mistake) They should be taking their EV lumps like tesla did but they punked out and gave up.

[@cathyk9197]

Google should just quietly shut down Waymo...goofy looking Waymo's will grow more embarrassing once Robotaxis start to operate in San Fran and Phoenix🤣

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@dclpgh Tesla is facing massive competition from legacy automakers and they are already building better quality vehicles with newer tech. The situation is only going to get worse for tesla.

[@virgilwhetsel5289]

Here's some old truths: 80+% of all new businesses go broke in the first five years. You can't be cheaper than someone who's going broke. Find the profitable sector and concentrate on that until the smoke clears.

[@legostud]

I’m still surprised that there isn’t a Tesla Van. There’s a huge market there.

[@blakeanderson9479]

Guys so what are Ford and GM going to do when Tesla is selling their Y,3, between 30,000 and 36,000 in 2026 and they haven’t got any products to compete with them. Not to mention the Chinese coming in the next 3 to 4 years at even cheaper prices.

[@KingBravo-lo3vc]

A couple of years ago Elon was saying that if they built a compact car it would be a robo car. Tesla would not sell it. You would just call it. They would make their money on pay to ride.

[@donaldbatts7250]

Old men talking about the old days

[@Carguytct]

Thank you for saving me one hour of my time. I read a few comments first and decided not to waste my time by watching this video.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

EV's are the future of automobiles because of their efficiency but most of the tesla fanboys are completely ignorant of any automotive technology besides the marking BS the Musk pounds down their throats. Being young is no excuse for ignorance, that's do to laziness.

[@koulor9306]

Clueless panel here. Get your facts right.

[@andrewboyd5291]

Great to see two of my best buds on Autoline!

[@TalismanPHX]

Excellent and insightful discussion. Thank you gentlemen

[@Northbaylandscaping]

2:50 The RoboTaxis is the Model 2 without the steering wheel and pedals. Tesla won't be selling RoboTaxis and they will be making them for people to use for a fee.

[@bru512]

💯

[@larryevans6739]

Tesla said they would "unveil" the robotaxi on 8/8, not that they would introduce it. Tesla "unveiled" the Cybertruck in 2019, but they are still in the process of ramping to mass production.

[@davidbeppler3032]

Tesla introduced the Model Y in 2019. Was produced just 9mths later. I expect the $19.5k Robotaxi to be mass produced faster than that.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Still ramping up production and concurrently fixing the design flaws 5 years running.

[@michaeloreilly657]

​@@davidbeppler3032Model Y is essentially a rebodied model 3.

[@mart0225]

Musk made a big robotaxi announcement in 2019 and said Teslas were appreciating assets. In April, 2022, Musk said Tesla would produce robotaxis in volume in 2024. Tesla resale value has dropped significantly and robotaxis are no where near production in 2024.

[@cathyk9197]

@@michaeloreilly657 That is exactly what a Model Y is and it shared 75% of the parts with the original Model 3. The funniest vanity plate I've ever seen on a Model Y read "I8AM3" - yum, yum🤣

[@MrTeff999]

Before you knock the Cybertruck, you should watch Out of Spec’s Ocean 2 Ocean EV truck race.

[@sergiomessina2037]

Holy cow, I've never ever stopped Your videos at the four minute mark. These two so-called experts are betting against Elon, but with Reuters. Did Reuters send rockets up into space and have them return safely back to earth, did Reuters single-handedly propel the electrification of transportation, did Reuters create stationary batteries so that solar power becomes a viable option to our energy needs, did Reuters interface with the human brain to give the potential for quadriplegics to walk and blind people to see, did Reiters create self driving vehicles, is is Reuters working on humanoid robots to help fill the labor shortages of our country and the abroad? I probably should watch beyond four minutes, but you know what I'm pissed off…

[@conchobar]

Do you still believe Elon will manufacture a roadster with a 200kWh batttery, like he promised? 🤣🤣🤣

[@Lypiatt]

Good points, I also stopped after a few minutes. Do those two guests really make a living commenting on the auto industry?

[@sergiomessina2037]

@@conchobar keep betting against him, buddy…

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Elon says many things, few of them actually become real. The rest is just bluster and BS.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@conchobaryes

[@davidws5439]

Gary, you are so deep into oil & gas vehicles you should step aside on podcast about EV'S. You have been feed by that industry you cannot or will not see reality.😢

[@idocmirk]

Usually I enjoy Autoline. Today, what a bunch of old codgers with their heads in the sand as far as advantages of EV's and rapidly improving and evolving technology.

[@allistermacdonald7823]

Usually you have your finger on the pulse and are up to date on current events but listening to your tesla commentary was difficult for me tbh. Model 3 was refreshed and re-released in the US and Canada just last month. Reviews of the refresh seem to be overwhelmingly positive. Also, tesla has made several announcements at this point that they will start production of the 25,000 model at giga austin where there primary enginnering team cam oversee initial production and refinements before giga mexico is built for full scale production of the low cost vehicle. Many other tidbits that unfortunately you had quite wrong. Was surprising to me because you usually seem quite up to date on current events.

[@michaeloreilly657]

Replacement is required. Not just refresh. That's what competitors are doing. That's his point.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@michaeloreilly657you give him too much credit. These guys have no idea what they're talking about... With the exception of John, of course.

[@Ryan-hg8el]

Typical comments made by your average 70-year-olds. There are tremendous advantages to EV. I've driven several Tesla vehicles and they were the best vehicles I've ever driven.

[@earthwizz]

Chinese EVs stranded in European ports are not unsold, they just can't be moved. Tesla have contracted all the transport.

[@wineberryred]

If you live in an apartment in Manhattan your EV is an electric bicycle! Just put it in the locker at ground floor and take the battery to your apartment.

[@michaelsmithers4900]

Currently subassemblies of all sorts are loaded into assembly lines, sometimes a part will ride down 3 different assembly lines before it resides in the final product. Unboxing makes final assembly easier by rethinking design and assembly from the ground up.

[@bobmcnulty3500]

I think the Ford F-150 lightning was a great first generation EV truck but Ford needs to come out with generation 2 that is designed ground up to be an EV and at a much reduced cost. The 200,000 preorders was for the 40k truck not the 90k truck.

[@thumper1747]

Ports are always full of unsold cars, not just Chinese EVs

[@vinnyc7613]

cyber truck dumpster fire? really?

[@StormyDog]

Autoline guest dumpster fire.

[@vinnyc7613]

@@StormyDog but it was the host who made the fire dumpster comment

[@cyclopsvision6370]

Good riddance to that $25,000 Tesla. Small cars also mean small profits, no reason to waste precious batteries on low cost vehicles.

[@edwarddejong8025]

Ford had a terrific prez named Hackett who created the Bronco and Maverick products, Ford's best two new products in many years. Sadly he was fired because the stock didn't go up, but there is no way Ford stock can go up when the Chinese are attacking this market so vigorously.

[@taylorc2542]

The entire legacy investment in China (quarter trillion?) is now completely underwater. All those factories will have to be written off. They ain't coming back from that and I don't understand why the stock market hasn't priced this in.

[@sergiomessina2037]

Hey John, do you know the demographics of your audience? I'm curious about the split between traditional Detroit and EV enthusiasts. Your shift toward EV adoption is apparent but you keep bringing on status quo thinkers. I know Gary plays devils advocate with your guests but I'm seeing more EV enthusiast in the comment section than the Detroit status quo. What do you think?

[@AutolineDetroit]

Great point. We have a very engaged group of EV enthusiasts with an impressive amount of knowledge, and they're not afraid at all to call it as they see it. But we also have a lot if ICE enthusiasts in the audience, who may not be as vocal, but who also watch us regularly. One of the things we pride ourselves on at Autoline is that we attract all kinds of people with many different viewpoints, but who really care about cars and the auto industry.

[@sergiomessina2037]

@@AutolineDetroit thanks for responding, although you really didn't answer what I was asking but that's OK. Still enjoy your videos most of the times lol.

[@keithdow8327]

1. The money is being spent on an AI computer, rather than Mexico. 2. The $25,000 car will be built in Austin.

[@Atgul-z6o]

Traffic goes down? Traffic doubles.

[@MyUniversalUniversity]

You all don't know what your talking about with everything you are talking about. Unsubscribed. If you get someone back on the channel that knows about Tesla and what it is doing, let me know.

[@legostud]

The growth of EVs sales in the US is lower than other countries who hit the 5% tipping point at the same time. The US is lagging so predictions have been off, because the modeling shows the US should be selling more EVs based on other countries. The theory is that the US wants more range, but I think it’s the politicizing of EVs causing a rift in consumers.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

There's no small car choice. You could try to find a Bolt, but nothing else. If these clowns in the Motor City won't make them, open up the borders.

[@DarkBrandon1]

China and Europe have their domestic car companies cranking out EVs. The US only has Tesla, the rest of the domestic US companies can’t make a good EV yet.

[@larryevans6739]

US protectionist policies block EV's from the largest and most competitive market. Even though IRA subsidies are massive, multiple times as much per vehicle, it is not enough to make up for the cost of protectionism.

[@michaelsmithers4900]

Reuters did not originally report about the August release that was an update after Elon came out with that

[@kevtheobald]

Cybertruck dumpster fire? Funny, seems like many are enjoying there Cybertrucks. I guess if you just visit Tesla hate sites or Autoblog, you might think there are nothing but problems. The whole Hummer EV as an example of anyone can make an electric truck was just sad. No one there seems to remember those randomly bricking. Just watch The Fast Lane Daily episode where their Hummer EV just shutdown on them. I am all for different points of views, because no company is perfect, nor is any product, but at least sound like you are informed.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Sloppily built half baked rusting cheap grade stainless steel dumpsters.

[@kevtheobald]

@@hwirtwirt4500 Not true, but you can believe that if you wish. Just surface rust, not rusting bodies. The body is doing what Delorean could not. Time will tell how well it works.

[@DougWedel-wj2jl]

The self driving, what stops self driving tech makers from putting it on things like golf carts, pleasure boats, forklifts? There must be so many vehicles which can accept that tech today without much issue. Farm vehicles are off road, so they are subject to different regulations.

[@nihalkarunatilaka6906]

How come you guys don’t talk about Tesla Model 3 refresh 2024 model? Sounds like you don’t know anything about new Tesla model three come on

[@HablaCarnage63]

Toyota has the capability to go electric and win. But they don’t have the willingness.

[@BHBeckenbauer]

Do we really have to have so many EV focused episodes where the guest panel have clearly never lived with one and don’t know what they’re talking about? It’s so boring

[@mediacafeonlinellc8728]

"With a robotaxi platform, Tesla should be able to generate earnings from both the vehicle sale and a recurring ride-hail revenue stream, which ARK believes could generate software-like margins," Ark said in its valuation model. "As Elon Musk has phrased it, autonomous ride-hail ‘probably will be the biggest asset value increase in history.'"

[@richardkule9384]

CyberTruck is a dumpster fire? You guys are lost in space. CyberTruck owners overwhelmingly love their vehicles. It is a sport truck. What about the number of orders?

[@davidhancock91]

Talk about rushed to market. If CT owners were honest, they are dodgy and far from sorted. You really have to be an Elon fan to pay $100k for that.Even if they were well put together they will never pass Australian ADRs, and the equivalent in Europe.

[@richardkule9384]

@@davidhancock91 It is mainly a product for North America.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@davidhancock91The don't plan to 😂. Not for Europe

[@adrwong8]

Guys it's too soon to announce the 25k car if the launch is not till 2026. It would cause orders for model 3 to drop, the Osborne effect. A robotaxi is based on the same platform and not competing with model 3 and they can streamline production for a few months to finalize the mexico green field plant. So texas factory expansion is for robo taxi and Mexico, Germany, and China new factories are going to be for both model 2 and robotaxi.

[@owenbradshaw9302]

I’m sorry but I’m not going to watch this vid, you start by saying Reuters says Tesla has cancelled the 25k car. The ceo of Tesla “Elon” immediately rebutted this saying it’s a lie. And your continuing on like it never happened, if I wanted to listen to dumb fud and bullshit I’d go somewhere looking for it, do better . If GM or Ford had this you’d take the CEO at their word.

[@highlanderapparel]

John and regards to assembly lines,😊 it was McCormick farm tools and as far as the Japanese in Southeast Asia exactly. China's a commin, The Highlander. P. S kindness is always free.😊

[@frederickstirnkorb3094]

There was demand for the lightning at the original pricing. When you increase prices by 50% demand will go down.

[@chriauc2976]

All these old folks 50 and older are irrelevant other then their retirement money the world is going and they gone

[@CSHarvey]

Toyota - they can launch anything the put their engineering team towards, but the question is volume. Cant sell Battery EVs without making EV batteries. And Toyota is just now trying to figure out how to make Solid State Batteries, and plan to have their first proofing factory only by 2027. IF (big if) everything works right, then they can start building actual production battery factories at the end of the decade. And theyll need a dozen or more of those to be competitive in volumein the EV segment by then. Meanwhile, theyve already spent a couple dozen $B trying to bring ONE battery factory to production over the past decade, just to support their PHEV production in the US. TLDR; Toyota is a decade late to the race for any "catching up"

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Toyota sells more vehicles than any other company and is rated the highest in reliability and quality. Tesla build quality is 20 years late.

[@EwanM11]

This conversation would have been spot on if manufacturering costs weren't a thing. Most Chinese companies will be gone in 2 years, its a savage environment and byd is taking scalps. The cost of Chinese vehicles is so low because they're selling them below cost just to get some cash, and the same will start happening with legacy auto.

[@mrallelectriccarlunacy]

26:44 I think the bad call was what quality of product they thought they could get away with. Most brands, their weak EV demand is because they don’t compare well with Hyundai, Kia, and Tesla. Mach-E Mustang was a nice idea but as soon as someone finds out the acceleration gets limited for the sake of the warranty, they want to curse it like a ‘90 Lumina with a restrictive exhaust. Many brands thought they would waltz into the new segment easily. Time for learning and redesigning.

[@lowtech_1]

So unboxed, is like a boxed complete knockdown kits. Unboxed.

[@rp9674]

Comes in a bag

[@AutolineDetroit]

CKD kits are a great way to explain unboxed. Well done!

[@urbanstrencan]

Tesla is losing its way they should focus on 25k model for the masses and stay on the mission of decarbonated future transport.

[@soundmindbodydivine]

Are you talking about cars or soda?

[@joweb1320]

If you paint the panels separately, they won't match when you put them together. Any painter knows this because the way the metallics flop. One reason that most bumper covers don't match the rest of the car.