When Authors Go Wrong || What Happened to Bill Gothard?

[@sandywong1959]

Very interesting! I’m from Canada. 🇨🇦 At age 20 I drove down to Seattle with a friend to attend a Bill Gothard seminar. I had a deep desire to follow God and live a holy life. I had accepted Jesus at age 11 at a Billy Graham crusade but had attended a fairly legalistic church from the cradle. There were many lovely, well-meaning people there who genuinely cared for me however much of the message was focused on external behaviours. I tried very hard (in my own strength) to live the Christian life. The seminar was very impactful. I remember Bill Gothard’s character cards and putting in a great deal of effort to display the traits in my life. Years later I came to realize that it’s “God who works in me to will and do of his good pleasure”. I am holy by God’s grace and not by works and it’s the work of the Holy Spirit within me. I appreciate what you said about the completed word of God and how there’s no secret knowledge or hidden revelation. We need to be aware and stay vigilant . Thank you and blessings!!

[@owinstan]

I spent my high school years at a missionary boarding school in the early '60s. Every year we had what was called 'spiritual emphasis week'. One year (probably 1963 or 64) the school brought Bill Gothard down to by our spiritual emphasis speaker. I went up to him after one of the meetings to ask about my feelings of failure to live up to God's standards. I don't remember anything he said in the meetings. The only thing I remember about his advice to me was that I should memorize the Sermon on the Mount. Here Jesus is raising the bar of God's standards even higher, which did little to assuage my feelings of failure. I have since come to understand that the Sermon on the Mount is a standard which I cannot keep, but which drives me to the throne of grace, where I can obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Thank you Jesus! They that are well have no need of a physician.

[@kotzting]

Nika, I am here in the foothills of Georgia, hearing you speak tonight in my studio. Thank you for your comments about not adding to Scripture. Bill Gothard added to Scripture, and his lifestyle bore witness to that false doctrine. Fifty years ago my girlfriend and I attended one of his seminars. Our marriage, now 48 years old, survived, his teaching did not.

[@Ikdgnot]

Like Jesus said of the Pharisees, teaching as doctrine the precepts of man.

[@hargisP2]

Every main stream Church adds to the scripture. No bothers do do research, and learn Hebrew, and Greek to help know truth. If you do you will find you have added your understanding to scripture not God's.

[@kotzting]

@@hargisP2 Teaching, or preaching the Word of God is a sacred calling and task. It is a labor that few should attempt, and then with proper fear and trembling. Sermon prep has more in common with construction work than anything else. Most of the men in churches, like those started by the likes of Mike Bickle and Robert Morris, have pastors that prance to and fro on stage, a creepy mix of used car salesmen and clowns. This arrogance and pomp is more suitable for the stages of rock and roll concerts. Mick Jagger, who is a strutting roster, has more poise than do these boys in men's bodies mentioned above.

[@drgruber57]

Yeah, my wife and I went to an "Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts" seminar, and like you said, gained some good teaching on character development for raising our kids. But on what may have been our second seminar, he started in on music. As a musician who had been greatly impacted for good, via the music of the Jesus Movement, I had big problems with him trying to teach that certain types of beats appealed to the "base nature", and couldn't be called Christian. I was raised in a pretty solid Bible teaching church and knew enough that he was going outside of what scripture taught. Just one more reason why Christians need read and study the Bible for themselves, and measure ALL teachings against the word of God!

[@alanstevens1296]

Many Christians and Christian leaders have such issues with Contemporary Christian Music (CCM). Many Christians and Christian leaders have such issues with rock-n-roll music in churches. I wouldn't hang this around Gothard's neck.

[@TruthisMarching]

I worked at ATIA headquarters, met Bill Gothard several times. He was kind to me, had a gift for helping kids see their talents. I'm sick of everyone thinking they were abused. Use your free will as a grown up, recognize that everything you were taught wasn't good, be grateful for the good, and move on.

[@rayray4192]

Are you wearing a Bill cheerleader uniform? Bill was a very strange man.

[@TruthisMarching]

@@rayray4192 Did you meet him?

[@katherinec2759]

In general, I'd agree with you. But when someone claims to be teaching "the one Biblical way," the standard for them being right goes WAY up. In claiming to speak for the Bible, Bill Gothard says MANY unbilblical things, and it is wrong to NOT call him on it. He has negatively impacted thousands of children and young adults, who now have no framework for separating the lies that he taught from Biblical truth, because they were taught everything, including the Bible, through his framework. He has affected the ability of Christians to witness to those around them, because many people see Christians and think that we all think that way. And yes, there HAS been a LOT of abuse. Sure, not everyone was abused, but most were. There are lots of other leaders and organizations who are gifted at helping kids see their talents without negative issues. It is wrong to tolerate the MASSIVE issues, simply because there were one or two good things about it. (I'd argue that it is wrong to tolerate the issues even if there aren't any other people doing the good, and that someone should have told Bill Gothard long ago that he was out of line and needed to reevaluate. But there's especially no excuse to ignore the issues when other people are already doing the same good without the issues.)

[@rayray4192]

@@katherinec2759 interesting post. Bill’s brother was having inappropriate contact with female staff at the retreat center in the upper peninsula of Michigan. The place is amazing and lots of ministry money went into maintaining the property. I have no idea if the ministry still owns the place. Bill had no problem spending lots of money. The staff was sterile and stiff and unfriendly and never smiled. Very strange people. Bill had a big ego. Id he still alive?

[@rayray4192]

@@katherinec2759 The older I get the less black and white I get. I’m currently reading a book I never thought I would read- ‘Why I am an Atheist who believes in God,’ by Frank Schaeffer, sin of legendary Christian philosopher and writer Francis Schaeffer. An interesting read. Frank honors paradox.

[@lindateuling7862]

I went to his "Basic" seminar 3 times. The first time I liked it a lot. The second time it began to get on my nerves and the third time was the last time. There are a lot of places where I can get good teaching without having to jump through his hoops.

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

As a teenager I went to 3 Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts seminars in the early 70's. .... Good basic concepts ... but they could obviously could be taken over the 'edge' for those so inclined. ...fortunately, I wasn't so inclined.

[@rodrogers6895]

I am 77 years old and underwent a conversion experience in June 19 70. As a new believer I began attending a Christian and missionary alliance Church in Castro Valley California. They periodically featured Bill Gothard basic youth conflict seminars. Even as a new believer I was struck by the “formulas“ and legalism that was the foundation of most of his teachings. That brought up a red flag and I realized that he was doing more harm than good. Now, 54 years later (having spent decades in both volunteer and professional Christian ministry) I now recognize that most of Christianity is a man-made religion. Done well, is accomplishes good; done poorly, it does more harm than good.

[@derikwoodruff]

Allan Bloom has a lot to share about the reality and influence of music. They were right about that one

[@kirtlandmahlum8135]

I'm not an author nor had I ever heard of Bill Gothard. I am a Catholic and Christian and enjoyed immensely your discussion of this man and the clarity of your speech. Good luck with your podcast and it deserves to grow.

[@NikaMaples1]

Wow. Thank you! It was so kind of you to take a moment to write something so encouraging. I deeply appreciate it.

[@timmellin2815]

Wow....very balanced and good advice. I had a now deceased beloved former college instructor who , in one of the last classes I sat in on w/ his students: said: "don't expect your audience to change and adapt to you; you need to change and adapt to your audience." And.....I attended Gothard's seminars a few times, in the 1970s and 80s, but just the Basic Youth Conflicts initial seminar.....and liked it very much. But as I looked at the intro material for the advanced stuff, I was a little put off....I especially got a chuckle out of the cartoon drawing of the dad putting bars on his rebelious son's window, while the wide eyed kid tried to fathom what was going on. So I liked Gothard's initial teachings, but later heard about his human failings. Oh well.....no one is righteous completely...we all have feet of clay. BTW: There is the sylabus for the Basic Youth seminar in the library at the Youth Hostel on Davie Street in Vancouver, BC. I saw it there when I visited.....it may still be there....that was many yrs. ago.

[@fredtaylor6079]

I went to Gothard's basic seminar as a brand new believer at the age of 37. I remember he was very legalistic. I also remember leaving the seminar thinking "no one can meet the standards he taught.'

[@albertlopez2237]

My father exact opposite was the same as he got saved mid-30 in the 70s. Someone introduced my dad to Bill Gothards teaching, and he embraced his basic concepts he did not hold to every teaching. Even though he has not read a book by him in over 20 years, that mentality is inbeded in him.

[@AuthorGayNLewis]

I totally agree.

[@AuthorGayNLewis]

My husband and I went to his seminar in Dallas. I stayed for about an hour. He was too legalistic for me. My husband stayed, but I'm not sure what he took away from it.

[@markbartlett5049]

His attempt to teach math with the Bible threw me off. The character stuff was good, authority being an umbrella of protection is an important teaching completely lost on many today.

[@lindateuling7862]

The umbrella of protection often leaks very badly.

[@mariafusco7899]

I belonged to a church young adult’s group back in the late ‘70’s, and they decided to send us to a Gothard seminar. At the time there was a strong emphasis on humanism becoming the religion that can overtake the church. He had a strange teaching using Abraham as the template by which God presents a three-step pattern for fulfilling a vision for anyone who would trust it. I was young but I can tell you over these many years I’ve never seen that pattern play out in real time. It’s eisegesis at best. I kept the book for decades until I learned of the Duggars, then tossed it.

[@brendabrown784]

Sometimes it's discouraging to feel like you are having to traverse the path of Christian discernment and truth all by yourself. But, at the end of the day, God makes you stronger when you learn to trust the Bible as your discernment matures. I sent my daughter to Gothard's seminar because it seemed like a helpful teaching source for young people who were being exposed to so many ungodly philosophical concepts. Thankfully, the material she was exposed to was not legalistic or harmful. It was only later that I realized how far off track (away from Biblical truth) Bill Gothard went as he gained inroads into massive evangelical sanction and support.

[@Gigi52162]

Some of my children became estranged from us because of Bill Gothard. It is slow reconciliation, but happening. They saw me as legalistic. I was not but it came across that way. My son and son in law from ALERT warned me but it would be years till truth came out. Bill is a human as I and so I forgive him. We needed to hear who God is, then law will be a desired thing to obey... not OT law but God's law.

[@thedustiswipedoffofourfeet3244]

Many didn't "feel abused" Many have been. Including many in government position's that were deceived and lied to believe another gospel and another Jesus😢 Are you aware, 2 children placed in the training center were the very one's that helped expose the deceiption & lie's?

[@ROGERBELLAS]

We went to the 3 day meeting and almost fell for his BS. It looked like a Moonie convention and I know a lot of families that joined and their children didn't turn out better than other students-home school, private Christian school or public school.

[@glenisthomas2681]

Another great and informative presentation Nika. Thank you : )

[@najirkhan260]

Nice episode it 🎉

[@rebeccavega6851]

Great insight into Bill Gothard. He is a bad actor who has hurt many and the name of Christ as well.

[@Susan-zk7ne]

My children are in their mid to late 40s and still have issues stemming from this man's teaching that our church at the time aspoused. . When the church fell apart there were all sorts of abuse that came out from pedo to locking kids in closets to beating them half to death until 'they layed quietly and whimpered' as you beat them. Looking back , I don't know how we all could have been so stupid but we were.

[@NikaMaples1]

That is terrible. I am so sorry.

[@dgv951]

1. Christian principle is not the Text. 2. Christ alone is Lord of the conscience. 3. Let your words be few. 4. For 99% of Evangelical leaders, silence is wisdom.

[@kaymoore7478]

Isn't it so easy to be critical of a man committed to Christ.

[@cactusblob1688]

"You shall know them by their fruits." His fruit is rotten.

[@greggpurviance7252]

Basic Youth Conflict (original seminars) started heresy & ended in disaster. Gothard was always a false teacher

[@rayray4192]

It was Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts. I was on staff at headquarters in Oak Brook. The staff was dysfunctional and the place was sterile. No one ever smiled or laughed. The atmosphere was oppressive and some revered Bill. Really uptight people.

[@rickkilgore1147]

Glad ole Billy Bob's gone.Good by Bill.

[@kaymoore7478]

What a most unchristian thing to say.

[@thedustiswipedoffofourfeet3244]

​@@kaymoore7478 Unchristian? So, you would rather he continued to lie and deceive his follower's? Do you know how many families were deceived and lied to believe another gospel and another Jesus? Why accuse other's of being "unchristian"? 😢 have you simply listened to other's that were sent to the training center's? Or mother's that were abused by their husband's & lost children? Are you aware of how many in the IBLP or not were abused by his teaching's? Christ Jesus our One True Living Shepherd Lord and Saviour protected the poor, weak, widow's, fatherless. Hireling's do not care about other's.