When To Promote / Class Change Your Units in Fire Emblem Echoes (ASAP?)

[@Mangs1337]

*Second*

[@monday1554]

*Second to reply*

[@lucky_crit]

Thanks for the support buddy! We should collab sometime ;)

[@nitez2730]

*fifth to reply*

[@bluebabii9975]

NiteZ Comments 6th to reply

[@notdwaddler2013]

Mangs MEIN MANGS

[@Jamick98Geass]

I honestly take the middle path. Not grinding to level 20, but not promoting right away either. Get another 4-5 levels in before reclassing. I find that I get a few base stat bonus while rounding out bad ones. Makes for much more rounded characters.

[@lucky_crit]

I like this, too! Some effort, but not hours of grinding!

[@waffles7404]

I'm doing the same thing. When a character has a three tier class I get them to level 10 before I promote and with two tier I get them to 15 before I promote

[@jmyers1385]

I went this route, but I got some pretty garbage stats on more guys than I thought I would. The only characters that got decent levels in my play through were Mathilda and Celica or anyone I turned into a Dredd Fighter. Even my Alm ended up being kinda garbage at level 20, I basically had to feed him all the extra stat items for him to be ALMOST the same level with Celica who hasn't even maxed out yet. At least the Dredd Fighters paid off, made the last section with Alm, Celica, and the final battle a breeze.

[@Jamick98Geass]

Just wanted to ask, what God do you prey to? I only ask because your Atlas got 4 stats during his level up. This could only be a achieved by making a mighty sacrifice to an evil deity. Otherwise, I'm lucky if the guy gets even 2 stats per level up. Why are his growths so bad???

[@waffles7404]

Jamick98Geass don't need a god if you are a god.

[@88Hyo]

People say shut up tobin is a meme, when gray himself is the meme.

[@HYDESDM]

so accurate

[@MugApwool]

Tobinchads unite

[@gutierrez5873]

level 20 for any units who arent in the dreadfighter loop . helped me in the long run with thabes dungeon and boss. lucky crit you are the only person I've seen who sees the pros of promoting at 20 as units can surpass the base stats of the promoted class as fb groups I seen harass people for doing that . i respect you so much for addressing this

[@lucky_crit]

I mean there are good things and bad things about going either way.. but anyone who says it's absolutely pointless to wait for promoting is kinda wrong in Echoes, as long as you're not getting like +1 every level up your units should be better. Heck even if they got all awful level ups you'd still at least get the base stats from promoting and probably have SOMETHING extra.

[@mghegotagun]

I'd say doubly so for classes with only two tiers, as temping as it may be to get them falcon knights asap for terror-killing goodness on Celica's side.

[@eeecool2]

gutierrez5873 exactly. i've tried telling people this. you don't need T3 units(bowknight, baron etc) to beat the final chapter. i did it with 20/17 snipers etc. etc. the exp gain curve goes like this: highest exp gain, low exp gain, (promotion) high exp gain, even lower exp gain). Meaning there is no reason to rush promotions. Best compare it to a blade. With every sharpening your blade's durability diminishes. Do you choose to have the best blade at every possible time by sharpening it after every battle, while reducing lifespan? Or do you prefer longevity and only sharpen it when the blade gets blunt. If you intend to take x character to late game/duma tower/dlc, I Highly recommend you 20/20/20 that unit. The others: promote ASAP because wasting xp on units you won't be using is pointless.

[@Meddin]

I totally agree with gutierrez! It's important to have all the options avaliable when you play an RPG game. Now let me understand a think, LuckyCrit: did you finally choose to grind and train most of your units to lvl 20 or near? Sorry but I have some troubles trying to understand your explanation 😯 and it's not your fault... I'm still learning english, sorry. In my case I'm an old school trainer and try to have the best progress so I reset lvls ups A LOT. I remembered to have Faye and Cliff on lvl 18 before change their first class and they were still awesome with just a sword... hehe. 😅

[@obi-wankenobi4337]

it doesn't matter when, as long as it's before the Duma chapter 👀👀

[@lucky_crit]

Hah, yeah that would be interesting going at him with Villagers though :)

[@obi-wankenobi4337]

Lucky Crit How bad would you feel if you were slayed by villagers 😂😂

[@browncoatkevin]

Well, there's always Pitchforked characters and promoted Dread Fighters/Overclassed Dread Fighters. Max-stat villagers = Duma all prepped for Alm and the Clerics to deal the last blows.

[@StupidArtOnlineGaming]

Well, Thabes Labyrinth would have me know that feeling.

[@jinshim2536]

StupidArtOnline TRUE

[@Hawlo]

Now that I've experienced the massive difficulty spike that is the post-game, I'd advise to do small grinding sessions throughout the game before promoting your units, especially on units with great growths, like Alm, Celica, Mathilda, Delthea, Clair and Kliff, so they'll be ready. Now I have to do tons of grinding with my ten picks for the Thabes Labyrinth because they get steamrolled by the enemy.

[@MagikarpPower]

its still best to do grinding in thebes. I would recommend to re class to villager if they max at 20 tho. those levels will come back quick

[@GamecubeGrace1989]

I’m sad this game didn’t do as well as the other 3DS games. I think it’s the best one. (Unpopular opinion)

[@sonicthehedge]

While this game is the best experience, the game has barely any replayability unlike fates or awakening and no lunatic mode. It doesn't help with the expensive DLC especally how most of them are grinding maps DLCs or require alot of grinding.

[@mareczek00713]

Define "best". Best characters? Depends what you like. Best maps? Nope, kinda basic compared to Awakening and Fates, but then again it's a NES remake. Best story? Yes, (at least as 3DS emblem) but then again they had skeleton of story from NES enriched by a manga from times before snowflaking and anime tropes becoming mainstream so it dodges most of what made Awakening and Fates endearing/cringy (depends who you ask).

[@ylissotato]

Awakening will always be my first and favourite, but Echoes is definitely close second. fates trash

[@justanotherweirdo11]

Lunatic conquest is my fav.

[@pleaseexcusemydopeassswag2441]

@@justanotherweirdo11 Name checks out

[@tekuki9507]

i upgrade my character asap because i thought it was the way to go for this game, and i wanted everyone to get better skills to be easier to use in battle

[@mitoseyggdrasiell1989]

Just wanted to tell you that thanks to your advices I bought this Fire Emblem, I'm loving the game and your vids, you're really helping me here to make some decisions; so keep the good work, the info is really interesting, thanks!

[@JigglezThePuff]

Am I the only one that puts Faye in the front line with steel shield and defensive art... and it works?!!

[@happycorn298]

Faye does have a pretty good Defense growth, so...

[@veeeeeeeeee453]

@@happycorn298 very late response but yeah, I've been replaying and for some reason my faye is a bulky hard hitting pegasus knight

[@Thatdeadpenguy]

Promoted to second tier at part three Dasaix/Grieth. Third tier in the latter half of part four. My units were a grab bag of powerhouses, brick walls, crit machines, zombie killers, and Clive. I did use every unit so the spread of experience kinda made people underleveled. But even on hard mode, this game wasn't super tough, so everyone should be alright no matter when they decide to rank up.

[@stickfigure8416]

"and Clive". I guess Clive sucking must be a universal law or something

[@Thatdeadpenguy]

StickFigure Ironic considering that everyone in game regards him as some mighty Zofian hero. But yeah, with all my efforts to make him good, he was terrible throughout the whole game.

[@Hallalemon]

King Young Clive would be good... If he actually hit when he had high chances for actually hitting, and dodged when the enemies had low chances... but Clive is Clive.

[@Thatdeadpenguy]

Rikumania If i had a nickel for every time Clive missed and got pelted by a counterattack, I'd be able to afford this FE's overpriced DLC. But, I suppose you live by the Clive and you die by the Clive... and I mean die a lot.

[@Hallalemon]

King Young On a non reset run without using the Turnwheel, I would just let him die.

[@yourmaster3051]

Trying to grind Silque by attacking after lvl 10, she gets 1 exp for bringing an enemy to half health...

[@lucky_crit]

Ouch.

[@MrGhosta5]

it's easy to grind her if you made faye a cleric as they can heal each other forever

[@SSBBFalco]

Why do Dread Fighter sprites look like Meta Knight?

[@lucky_crit]

Idk.. they're very stout. I think they wanted to pay homage to the original ones, but they're pretty odd looking.

[@sircadet9035]

SSBBFalco why breaking pots like link? why there a palutena clone? Why the game looks like Xenoblade graphics?

[@SSBBFalco]

lmao

[@WhiteInk47]

Because they're rad like that

[@sircadet9035]

WhiteInk47 ah

[@JosephHk743]

Echoes My approach was that I grinded in dlc and dungeons, but I took the approach of promoting as soon as possible. It still gave me a challenge throughout the game. I finished the last dungeon in the post game, but now I am in the process of trying to get Sol, Luna, and Astra weapons. I also got my units to the over classes and used them in the main story. They definitely helped out a lot on some maps.

[@CatManThree]

Damn dude, I love your video style! I am definitely going to be a regular viewer of you videos, you can count on that.

[@lucky_crit]

Thank you so much! If you're just starting with this episode be sure to check out the series playlist, we've got a bunch of others and more to come!

[@krabs6457]

i promoted immediately because that's what i was told to do. little did i know, they were talking about the original gaiden. but, oh well.

[@argosleuf]

I feel like it is more necessary to grind exp for some units than others. For example, in my playthrough I have to grind experience with Clive in order to get him up to par with my other units and thus maximize my strategy variety later in the game, however, for units with great growths like Alm or Celica or Gray I see less of a need to do so.

[@pepelotas9769]

I only grinded kliff and tobin to villager lvl 10 on the first dungeon. my tobin was a very acurate archer from the start and my mage kliff was so awesome and as sages dont have extra move, I maxed him out and he kicked mayor ass from the start to the end game. If you are going to grind just one unit, villager kliff is totally worth it.

[@RWBn00b]

"If you are going to grind just one unit, villager kliff is totally worth it." Not as a mage. Sage is a bad long-time class as all physical classes except Baron will outclass it in mobility later on and make you almost never get to actually use that unit in combat. Also, Mage Kliff is terrible for quite a while. You force yourself to use a really bad mage to end up with a immobile combat unit. Tobin makes a better mage, purely for the fact that he has far better bases for it and Physic. Kliff is by far the best as a Cavalier in a non-grind run, it's not even close. If you do grind, Bow Knight outclasses all other options with 1-5 range and 8 move.

[@eridani8323]

...I had my units at their tier 3 classes at level 15 at least (except Alm of course) before fighting Desaix the first time... That’s how carried away I get AND yes, they were all level 20 before their promotions. Courtesy of the DLC dungeons.

[@SurrValla]

Great video, Stevie. In my first playthrough, I took the "challenge" approach. Some units turned out shitty (like my Pegasus Fae), but int the end, I've already finished the history and post game, and enjoyed the history and game difficulty to the max. I also point out that I've played every FE Western game bar PoR. In my Second playthrough, I'm promoting most units til they reach Lv10, resulting in an way easier game progress, Fae is now a monster and almost everyone destroys anything. Finally, my conclusion is that the decision must be personal, like the way you put in in your video. Personally, I enjoy Echoes more promoting ASAP.

[@Swordsmaster]

I promoted them right away. Just like with Pokemon evolving, I always can't wait until my units get promoted. ^.^

[@lucky_crit]

Yeah there's always something exciting about evolving/class changing!

[@liamgreyeyes9498]

I do so on easier difficulty but on more difficult I generally wait a bit.

[@SailorTwyft]

For 3-tier classes like Archer, Cavalier, Soldier, and Mercenary, I'd recommend upgrading ASAP. They can take advantage of stat bases twice and still have plenty of opportunities to level up (Archers also get more range on promotion which is a godsend). Level 10 works if bases won't do anything for you, but anything beyond that most likely won't be worth your time with diminishing EXP returns. It's a little iffier for Pegasus Knights, Mages, Clerics. They can only take advantage of stat bases once, and even then they're nothing to write home about. Now, Clerics getting Seraphim and Falcon Knights getting Banish is useful (especially on Celica's route), but Sages/Priestesses get what... Recover? And they don't even get more movement! Granted, some units *do* get other handy promotion-exclusive spells (like Sage!Tobin with Physic) but they're mostly niche (like Mae's Silence or Delthea's Rewarp). Upgrading ASAP is still very viable for those classes, but unless they're specifically benefiting from something on promotion or are feeling the pain of diminished EXP, there's less reason.

[@lucky_crit]

Yeah it's definitely a mixed bag, but I was certainly worried about the limited level ups in the mage and pegasus knight lines.

[@RWBn00b]

"It's a little iffier for Pegasus Knights, Mages, Clerics." Palla, Est and Catria promoted at an early level are all strong enough to destroy the entire maingame. They should promote immediately unless you are using them for postgame. "Mages" In most cases, Mages should promote as early as possible so they can get their Utility spells from the sage. Exceptions include Boey, just for the extra speed)and Luthier. Boey still desperately wants an early promotion due to the fact that low level Sages actually level faster than high level Mages, and he wants Excalibur as early as possible. Luthier is more debatable, but the faster leveling of low level sage is easily better than staying non-promoted. All mages want to early promote at the earliest point. "Clerics" None of them need to wait at all as they are utility units who don't need to care much at all about stats, and getting early Seraphim for those situations where you do get some attack use out of them is superior. "Granted, some units do get other handy promotion-exclusive spells (like Sage!Tobin with Physic) but they're mostly niche (like Mae's Silence or Delthea's Rewarp)." Silence is anything but niche. Enemy mages are not rare at all and very damaging. Rewarp- ...I don't even know what you are thinking here. The biggest issue of the mage class is it's terrible mobility, and this spell somewhat fixes that. It's as non-niche as you can possibly get, and if you could promote to Sage at Level 1with not a single boost to your stats just to get it earlier you should do it. There are no niche utility spells, they are all insanely good and better than attack spells in almost every case. There's a reason Cleric are a godly class while pure attacking mages struggle to compete at all in the endgame(they can't get to battle nearly quick enough) Promoting early in this game is pretty much always optimal. I can't think of a single case where it isn't. In other games it's usually optimal as well, but at least in those it can be argued due to a combination lacking promotion gains in some cases and slower leveling upon promotion, but in Echoes promotion lets you level faster. Max stats don't matter much at all for anything but postgame, and early promotions beat the game far more efficiently than not doing so.

[@SailorTwyft]

I posted this nearly two months ago when I was much less familiar with the mechanics of SoV. Knowing what I know now, I pretty much agree with all of your points. Getting the pegasisters to Falcon Knight right away is absolutely the right choice, and support spells are universally pretty neat and worth promoting for. Even for high-growth units, the diminished XP beyond promotion level is generally enough to warrant promotion even if they don't get any base stats. I think the only case I can think of otherwise is maybe Delthea, who, even with promoting at level 14, might not reach Rewarp by the final map - but even then, that's more of a postgame consideration and it's still "optimal" to promote her right away.

[@cedars8571]

God thank you for making this video because I was seriously didn't have any ideas about this

[@mooseyluke]

Managed to get Alm and Celica up to level 20 before promotion Feels good

[@meganmartin3373]

On my first playthrough, even with grinding a bit, I promoted everyone as soon as their promotions became available and literally NO ONE reached the level cap before beating the final boss. In particular, my Saint Faye didn't even get to learn Anew before the game was over. I really feel like if I waited for everyone to cap levels before promoting them, I'd be challenging the final boss with a bunch of middle-stage classes, and that doesn't sound like a good time to me.

[@sydAshby]

I've tried the "promote only when max out" on hard and classic without grinding I loose at the first swordsman I met (Alms route, the fight after the first dungeon where you get Silke). He just double all your team and do massive damage. The only thing who can stop is Silke and her Nosferatu. If someone made it i will do all the travel to see it by my eyes and give him/her (we can dream) a cookie.

[@JAMllostthegame]

I did your mentioned third option for Kliff only because every level up he got increased three or four stats each time, even past promotion level. He ended up being a frontline archer, which was fun to be honest.

[@Jewnboy]

Perfect video for me as I make my intro to the series. Thanks so much

[@devide4421]

3:50 I'm going to try this out! Thanks for the idea! (not having access to resurrection fountains might come back to haunt me though...)

[@lupazen]

Very informative video! Gonna try that challenge you said in a future playthrough! :)

[@lucky_crit]

Thanks for watching! Be sure to let me know how it goes >:)

[@thunderkat2674]

I had every single unit hit level 20 then I promoted them. I did this my 2nd play through on hard/classic. My 1st play through I just promoted them quick as possible. I love grinding and I gotta say it feels good to have units with good stats because I put the time in. I will admit it ended up being around 30+ hours of grinding lol

[@lucky_crit]

I was gonna say, it would definitely take too long for most people I think. Might be fun to do on a maxed run or something though.

[@THEKING-hu8vt]

If you go to lv 10 or early teen you still get the level up bonuses (or class bases) as long as you havent gone past them I also put 23 hours into echoes the first weekend it came out in NA and just realized there is post game

[@fordexyzable]

Abilities for classes like Dreadfighter, Sage, and Priestess are very useful and should also be considered for when to class change.

[@berserkersam9118]

Nice video lucky crit. Generally I promote ASAP as I feel in general this is how the game was designed to be played. I will sometimes compromise between that approach and the max out idea. By continuing to level up IF a given unit is still gaining loads of EXP per kill and encounter but once that drizzles down I promote. This time around I'm trying to use only Alm on Alm's route as a challenge since I beat the game already on hard . I will occasionally use Silk for warping purposes but I'm trying to only use Alm as kind of a Alm solo run. So far it's going well I've gotten all the way to the Sluice gate.

[@tomw7225]

I like your challenge idea! I think I'll try it

[@lucky_crit]

Let me know how it goes!

[@postapocalypse0763]

Why couldn't they give every class a loop? I don't care if it was a bug in the original it is dumb to keep it and not give it to the other classes, especially since the girls who can't even use a Villager Fork to get in the loop are just gimped

[@88Hyo]

i think that the "wait until level x before uograding but not bothering with maxing out" applies tô every fire emblem. like in fe 8 which i'm playing right now, I did my upgrades around 15-18 , because i didn't feel like griding all the way to 20.

[@LuckyX1113]

If alm gets in smash we know what he’ll be

[@skaeity]

The only units I don't promote immediately are the mage ones that get spells at like level 18

[@sdw4527]

General rule of thumb for me is promote at 10/12. For characters in classes with only 1 promotion (pegasus knight, mage, cleric), I promote as close to 20 as I can. I ended up just promoting slightly early for the whitewings and Genny for terror control.

[@collectorofmyst2107]

Huh... well, this gives plenty to think about. As somebody who plays Normal/Casual, with a mostly story perspective, but still wants to keep the army balanced, this is kinda useful. Though I sort of wished that it would be when in the storyline you'd promote, too. I'm planning for everyone to have reached their DLC class by Act 4's end (since in Alm's case it makes sense), but other than that I have been having a little difficulty deciding what to do with them.

[@JTRogue151]

Thanks man for all the help you give me with this game man love your content very informative

[@lucky_crit]

Of course! Thanks for watching and check out the rest of our series on Echoes if you haven't seen it yet!

[@BeamishGull191]

I usually promote asap, excluding Silque and Delthea because I grinded for spells that they could learn pre promoting

[@acefreak9561]

i usually promote after 5 levels after promotion unlock except female mages but i do make sure alm and celica are 20 before class change

[@StairFacts]

I typically promote villagers at level 10, and normal units at level 20, my units ended up pretty strong despite just reaching 3rd tiers close to the end of the game.

[@mfbandit7930]

i upgraded villagers asap. and the units that found themselves getting funneled all the kills for some reason or another i waited for level 20 everytime. units that serve utility purposes (like tanking) i promoted between level 15 and 10.

[@khalidalali5936]

I soloed Nuibaba's map with Silque's invoke. I only summoned 8 dread fighters and they destroyed everything.

[@Sol_Calibre]

Generally it depends on the unit. On average, i cop out at lv 14 but some units like Delthea are easy to raise to lv 20. So more or less I wait until they seem to gain exp very, very slowly.

[@StarForceKid194]

Advance Wars! Advance Wars! Advance Wars! Also good video as always Stevie.

[@lucky_crit]

Coming soon, got a bit more work to do on that bad boy. Gotta make sure it's perfect :)

[@StarForceKid194]

Of course, take your time. Loved your Golden Sun video. Hopefully you talk about other great titles as well.

[@lucky_crit]

Yep, don't want to spoil but there's definitely a lot of old gems I'd love to talk about moving forward!

[@stoutparadigm]

Lucky Crit Yooo if they bring advance wars back on 3ds I'd die. I actually really liked DoR, put more than 400 hours into it back in the day (I played the first 3 into the ground too ofc)... I mean, come on IS. It's been almost a decade. What gives?

[@giraffedragon6110]

For physical units, soon as possible. At worst they’ll be at baseline and at best they’ll get the stats they really need. Clerics, I like to late promote them so they get their best spells sooner. Mages are a bit weird, sometimes getting their promotions now is what will help, other times waiting to get those mage cap spells helps.

[@mghegotagun]

First playthrough, I played no dlc, on hard because I'm no scrub, and generally promoted asap. This means characters like Clive, and Palla ended up weaker at similar levels compared to the likes of battle-goddess Mathilda, Catria, and Est, but I still had a good time, and the main story wasn't terribly hard at all. Current playthrough, I decided to gather 10 starspheres on each side, and promote at 20 (except for villagers. Alm's villager friends I promoted at 10. I think I promoted Atlas at 12 or 13). This means characters aren't hitting 2nd-tier promotions until act4, but all the extra potential stats, especially for the non-mercs, are godly for whatever post game.

[@lucky_crit]

Definitely let me know how this new playthrough goes! Sounds like a fun time overall!

[@mghegotagun]

Not bad. It doesn't trivialize the main game as much as I thought it would. You're technically trading off using weapons for starspheres for some post-game investment. I still grinded to get the likes of est, and sonya up to snuff as much as I did on the first playthrough. The real notable differences are having to deal with saber, kamui, and jesse with 4 movement for a long time, not using brave sword, or blessed weapons, and the damage they take from the mire-using arcanist killsquads without dreadfighter skills, and still mostly non-existant resistance growths. There was also the fact dealing with cantors spawning terrors would be slightly more tedious if it weren't for genny's expel. Haven't dealt with Berkut's army at the border yet, but I'm sure it'll be interesting since I'm not giving Mathilda a ridersbane, but I'll still have mage Kliff, and Delthia at least. The pros to it is that Atlas actually gained some speed to double anything that isn't a dreadfighter as an archer (now sniper, though not using a speed-cutting bow does help), and it was funny seeing Celica's mercenary crew double dreadfighters when they were still mercs. Thanks to starspheres, everyone has stats at the start of act 4 that I didn't even see after I beat Duma the first time. Might not need the overclass dlc, or extra pitchforks at all to hit stat caps, so it's something. Though I may use the pitchfork on Tatiana to help her stats just because she has probably the second-best saint spellset, but with bases similar to other clerics promoted asap, and only 19 levels to work on her stats. Wonder how I'll fare when I hit the labyrinth. I hope I don't trivialize it too hard.

[@LPfinale]

I usually like to take the middle-of-the-road approach unless a particular unit has been leveling up so bad that their promotion gains would easily be a better investment than the time it would take to get a few more points than their new bases. Or if that unit is Clive, since no amount of investment (except maybe with a Villager's fork) is going to make him as good as Mathilda or Zeke.

[@TNinja0]

I promoted as early as possible And by the time I beat the post game, my units are still not at lv 20 on their latest class. I only played Hard mode, though. They're really stingy with Exp in this game.

[@mareczek00713]

Gonna start Echoes first time in my life in an hour. Some may think I'm a masochist but I'll max-late promote with next to no grind (maybe I'll have one or two grind units, OP I won't use outside of trinding for forging).

[@AYoutubeName]

From what I gathered, promoting shortly after Level 10 seems like a good balance for me. But that realism challenge sounds pretty interesting; I might just go for that instead.

[@DaBrandonMan]

Somewhere in the middle of Act 4, I started grinding each unit, 1 at a time, in the Lords of the Grave DLC equipped with a Star Jacinth until they were level 20 in their overclass. I ended up with all my units being broken and trivialized the rest of the game.

[@lucky_crit]

Yep, perhaps chapter 6 will still be challenging for you, unless you implied that you beat that part too, but the game overall just isn't hard enough to warrant completely min/maxing everyone

[@DaBrandonMan]

I haven't played through the post-game dungeon yet, though I've heard it's challenging. Maybe it'll offer at least a bit of a challenge for me. Yeah, the main game is definitely easy enough without having to excessively grind like I did. I guess I just get satisfaction out of making everyone in my army overpowered, even though it's not necessary.

[@nghia_win]

I, on my first playthrough, lvl max to 20 before class changing which caused a bit of trouble on alm's route when fighting Berkut in Act III. Got passed it after a few tried and grinding.

[@phantomorion0715]

I love that intro with Gray

[@lucky_crit]

Gray is awesome.

[@markie034]

I would promote my units immediately if their promotion stat boosts were good. but if they weren't, I would level them up a little more before promotion. I think this is a pretty good way to decide when to promote

[@cancerousweeaboo2075]

I spend around 4 hours on act 1 grinding the villagers, promoting through the merc line, going back into villager and the merc line again to max out stats, then going to the classes I want to promote them as. Fuck the "canon" promotions, Kliff has a sick as fuck gold knight palette and Tobin gets physic as a level 5 sage. Gray has capped atk as an archer which is fucking amazing. Plus there are no bad stat level ups because the stats are damn near maxed.

[@RedSalamander]

I'm occasionally grinding just to knock units into promotional range before moving on (like Alm's side of Act 3 at the beginning). In general, I'm promoting ASAP unless I can't reach a shrine or if I'd like a unit to learn certain spells before promotion (i.e. Silque will not become a Saint until she learns Invoke Dread). I may not backtrack as much going forward unless I want to complete a quest, though (which means Celica will be running through graveyards a lot), so maybe I'll just hold off on promotions for my second-tiers until the next shrine or something. This is my first playthrough of SoV, though, and I'd like to enjoy it rather than stress about doing everything as well as humanly possible. Current Progress: Act 3. Alm: Just defeated Desaix and recruited Mathilda. Celica: Recruited Palla, Catria, and Atlas; forged Golden Dagger into third-grade. Next intended objective: Enter the Dragon Shrine. Motive for next objective: Mostly so I can open a new Shrine and turn Atlas into a Cavalier (With Saber and Kamui, I think I'm good for Myrmidons right now).

[@JohnDoe-kn7ex]

RedSalamander just so you know, for promoted magic users the formula is (level they learn the spell)-(level they promoted at). so silque still learns invoke even if she promotes at level 12

[@RedSalamander]

So if I promoted Silque right at Cleric Lv12, then she can still learn Invoke Dread at Saint Level 6 in that case?

[@JohnDoe-kn7ex]

RedSalamander I believe so. I know I promoted Silque early and she still learned invoke.

[@ziggymcdougal]

funny thing about promoting early, it's actually possible and also optimal to promote Palla before you even touch the desert. Let me explain During Act 2, skip the dragon shrine. Once act 3 begins and you have Palla, do a single graveyard fight and go to the dragon shrine. This nets Palla a level. Next give her both exp shrine uses as well as the golden apple you get on the pirate throne. This gets Palla to lvl 12 and ready to promote into Falco before you even touch archer fort. She will absolutely tear that map with her high bulk, as there's only 3 archers with weapons equipped, which she could potentially orko if you give her a steel lance forge. And from there it's off to the races. Normally Palla is great, but with that start, she literally becomes the best unit of act 3 and 4.

[@emotional_st0rm]

''hours in dungeons'' I'm playing on hard mode and insta promoting all units. On Act 3, ready to head into final bosses for both Celica and Alm, and I haven't done any excessive grinding thus far. I've only spent like 10 minutes going through a dungeon because Luthier only needed 2 levels to be able to promote.

[@LP-zn8sc]

I feel like when I play I'll promote every time I reach a shrine. I also want to make all my villagers and free villager forks to make a bunch of units dread fighters so I can reclass them twice

[@marikacurrie8370]

I tried Stevie's challenge (OFFICIAL NAME) partway, but it became WAYYYY to hard on hard mode.

[@AnimeSquirrel]

i gave Lukas a village fork after speed promoting him to baron and now he us an unstoppable killing machine of a dreadfighter.

[@jislas12]

i have my own goal stats: for example if i want to promote a mercenary to Myrmidon/Hero he should have those stats(at least nearly) HP: 32-37 Atk: 17-19 Skll:18-19 Spd: 17-18 lck: at least 8 Def: 12-14 Res: as you wish Knight to Baron HP: 35-42 Atk: 20-23 Skll:13-17 Spd: 7-14 lck: at least 8 Def: 18-22 Res: the same mage or cleric to bishop/sage HP: 25-30 Atk: 15-18 Skll:13-17 Spd: 14-18 lck: at least 8 Def: 8-12 Res: 13-16 i know that everyone can grind as they wish, but with this tactic, you can compensate and get less worried about those annoying 1 stat + level ups when you have your charactes promoted

[@Heroeye]

For me I grind for the 12 crystal shard in the DLC for complete Astral Crystal which give 30 percent plus when level up(Aptitude) in att, skill, spd, luck, def, hp, and 5 percent res. This give me a quicker way for better stats.

[@lucky_crit]

Yeah that's a really great way of improving the growth rates. It might trivialize the rest of the game though, as I don't think it's that hard to warrant needing great level ups on everyone and min/maxing!

[@Yanninho78]

What about this approach : promote early for the characters that get huge bonus class bases (Mercenary, Myrm, Knight, Paladin, etc.), and grind a bit for classes who don't give any good stat gains (Archers, Mages), because those extra Spd points might do a lot of work for you in the long run.

[@kungfudragon321]

I typically wait a few levels after they're able to promote, unless it's a caster who still has a few spells to learn (Like Boey getting Excalibur at 18, though that was a rather painful grind).

[@eludeirkz7961]

Promote whenever you feel like it, Unless its a mage, wait for them to hit level 20 before you promote them because some of them learn spells at level 17-20 that they wont' get at Sage/Priestess.

[@PantheonFefnir]

You can honestly go pretty far, I've found, without worrying too much about promoting immediately (I was playing on Normal, but still). I got pretty a good bit into Act 4 before most of my mages promoted, and they held their own fairly well. All the same, I did promote them as early as possible, mostly because I wanted to see how they looked ASAP. If there's any addendum I'd throw on this video, it's that villagers should probably be promoted earliest opportunity, maybe with a few extra levels tacked on. This is mostly to hand them a designated role. Mind, if you want the challenge, they could certainly hold their own, but you're still gonna be carrying around 5 swordsman without any designated role for a long time.

[@davidtapia4458]

I just got this game working perfectly fine it just needed to update at a flea market, I am playing normal casual mode because this is my first time playing the game and I realize I messed up on two subquest hope I can do them when I bring back Celica and I only use Mila's turnwheel only ones haven't used it at all

[@metroidgus]

it really depends on what you wanna do, on my first run I hardly did any grinding, most of my characters turned out okay didn't use characters like delthea, atlas, Jesse or Sonya but didn't need to Matilda holds her own on alms side until Zeke joins and the white wing sisters along Saber and Kamui were more than enough to Getty through the game

[@geoffreyperrin4347]

I class changed most of my unites somewhere between 12-15. I never took someone to 20, but did enough grinding that It was fairly easy.

[@thehermit8618]

What i do is use the DLC (yeah i know, im a filthy burgeoise) to hoard as much astral shards as i can, then i give them to units who need certain growth boosts (Cancer shard and Libra shard are super useful) then grind up until level 12 on lower tier, until level 15 on higher tier and then all the way to 20 so i can overclass. I assure you with enough luck you can have complete powerhouses and crit gods, you can even make Nomah and Clive useful

[@yikami4737]

Completed the game with everyone constantly maxed out levels. Grinding really isn't as bad after level 10. If you found a Castor you can stay in a terrain spot and spam turns while fighting (healers keep up with Nosferatu and Mercenaries with Blessed Blade, Cavaliers just need a healing ring). Even if I didn't grind I saw not much difficulty so I just demigodded everyone with overstats.

[@jaredkhan8743]

I didn't know when to promote so I ended waiting till the middle of act 4 😂 the only grinding I did was for python and delthea cuz I forgot to get python until act 4. It was VERY fun. Not extremely challenging at all. I recommend doing that for a challenge.

[@lucky_crit]

That's interesting! Was it challenging?

[@wighttigers4]

Here is a Challenge play through the game using only Alm, Gray, Tobin, Lukas, Clair, Clive, Cellica, Mae, Boey, Saber, Conrad, and Mycen I did it and got all the way to Duma the characters are the only ones required to progress

[@neilkupris6231]

I'm almost done with my hard playthrough, afterwards I plan on doing an only cavalier run on Alm's party and dread fighters on Celica's party. I prefer to level them up to 20 then promote immediately, they can earn extra points that the class change won't give. I also learned in grinding in dungeons if you get a bad level up, then use Mila's turnwheel and don't use the character till the next fight.

[@lucky_crit]

Yeah I was thinking about this, haven't been using the turnwheel much but it's definitely the way to go to reset for good level ups now.

[@LuckyX1113]

Another downside to upgrading ASAP is that you may not get all of the abilities often times a unit has an ability that they learn after being able to be promoted

[@Senyuno]

For me it's cost analysis: comparing the stats that the upgrade will give and the potential stats I could be losing by no waiting for 10-12. If it's a massive improvement to the unit, like often the Knight class or Myrmidon (you noticed this was a powerful upgrade line for Atlas for the same reason in a way), then go for it. But if it's relatively minute, in stats that won't make a meaningful difference, and that probably won't get increases from that character's stat progression, then wait it out until it slogs somewhere 10-12 (13 being too slow). Take your gamble for more stats, then upgrade. It all comes down to what the unit gains vs. potentially loses by missing those levels. Paladins gain little, Snipers gain only +1 range, etc. Also, Pegasus Knights are garbage. The Falcon Knight gains the anti-terror skill, which gives them use. And also they gain a boatload of HP, so they can actually tank a couple hits. My only concern that I'd like to re-visit is what happens when everybody is max class, high teens, and essentially done with significant, consistent increases. What point in the game will it put me? Will it be before the end? Because that could obviously leave me in a very underpowered state in the late game.

[@lucky_crit]

I like your insight! Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I guess perhaps that's why they thought to do the Overclasses in the DLC. In case you can't quite beat the post-game chapter 6.

[@XIIIHearts]

The only units I consistently promote to level 20 are Palla, Catria, and Est. I don't know whey, but these 3, especially Est, always underperform compared to other units, so giving them more levels made them useful to me.

[@Tuturial464]

Dlc helps for max stat run. Outside of resistance

[@friostopolaris652]

What I did was, when I left Ram I was searching in the dlc for 3 astral gems without any enemies touching me. Once that I got I gave it to Kliff, Alm and Lukas. I spent some time improving those three units but read well, I did not go beyond the sanctuary where you find Silk. When Alm was already at level 20 the gem passed to Gray and Kliff and Lukas were already Overclass while Gray, Faye, Alm, Tobin and Silk remained as useless next to them. Once I had those in Overclass I went to the Deliverance Headquarters where with the help of the gems, the monster barracks and the tombs lords, all (including the characters of the cipher legends) were ready to kill Grima before I even of having taken the castle of Zofia. But do not judge me, I just wanted to take away the difficulty of the game, and with Celica, the same story, before fighting with the liches I already had Overclass to Boey and Mae.

[@StrawHatPuffy]

Might try that challenge. I love anything that makes Fire Emblem more realistic

[@lucky_crit]

Yeah, imagine getting to the endgame with all Villagers though. HAH! Let me know how the playthrough goes though if you end up trying it.

[@Sp0okeh]

the only exception to the rule is Mathilda. she's so good that she doesn't need a promotion (one extra movement isn't needed). if you use her enough, she'll naturally reach, or become near lvl 20 on her own with no grinding (i ignored Clive the entire time). just promote her once you get to Rigel Castle regardless of lvl lul. on my next playthrough, ima attempt to get the Blitzkrieg award and just pick 10 units from each route and ignore the rest.

[@yosharioIII]

What I'm doing is not promoting my characters until they get to either 15 or 20 (haven't decided yet). The Villagers I promoted when they got to 10, just so I could actually get some diversity in Alm's early route. I don't grind or anything, I'm just playing through waiting until they get to the levels I want. I kind of relish the challenge of going through the game with first-tier units.

[@lucky_crit]

Yeah, I knew that grinding them to level 20 right off the bat would REALLY kill the fun of the game, so I didn't do that either.

[@bigspider3794]

1:23 Playing Echoes then leveled up Atlas at the same exact time!

[@lucky_crit]

Go hard or go home, kids!

[@Bludgeoned2DEATH2]

I always get to 10-14ish before promoting

[@Ray-hx3rm]

My Mae has been getting near perfect level ups every time she levels up and now she’s better than my saber HELP

[@Silversky1113]

My question is, what about mages? Some of them learn spells at level 16-18. Should I grind them to not miss out on spells, or are they able to get those spells in their promotions?

[@alvincaballeros4996]

I always promote as soon as Im able especially since Mages learn spells at different levels in different classes and Id like to have access to those as early as possible I dont grind much and I was kinda under leveled for the final fight (I was around level 5-7 and the units were level 10) but I still managed to pull through in the end I dont know if its possible to max every stat on every character in your army but I will def try and in hard mode i will be pickier with the units I chose to add to the army instead of taking everyone that should allow for more exp for everyone

[@alvincaballeros4996]

I just try to max out Alm and Celica

[@robby6382]

Yeah I go and promote at lvl 12-15 because I want to make sure all of my units don't suck

[@lichdom556]

" exp goes down after " Me grinding out overclasses:

[@corgipuss7468]

Always promote your units early because the tier 3 classes are super fun/super broken and a blast to race towards. I wouldn't stress trying to make this game harder because it's incredibly easy and only ever really fucks you over if you have a lopsided team (AKA don't have a balance of Mercs, Mages, Clerics, and Archers) which isn't honestly that fun to play as to compliment the challenge. Which is exactly what that "never promote" run sounds like it's going for, at least on Alm's route.

[@llamacornsparkles5728]

You know I actually did use the max out method for all my characters and can say it was a sluggish experience, but worth it when it came to fighting in thades in the final act. defeating Duma was a minor challenge, I hear that most people just spam the invoke, but I find it easier using Faye as a cleric/saint and having her learn return while Silque learns warp, it gets you into sweet spots to take out key enemies without having to risk powerful units. Faye also learns this skill early when she does become a cleric so that helps witht the max out method when maps become specifically difficult. But honestly don't use this method if you want an enjoyable time. there was a lot of repeating before I got enough gears to mean anything (though using this method with Atlas has made him a beast, he's on his second go of a villager and has about 40 atk without a weapon

[@MrDarktrebor]

my luck is crap but doing the first play through just leveling them up asap seems to be sub-par and I had a tougher time. except for saber he steam rolled cels side rather easily. yea some of the knight bosses were left to mae boey and cel.

[@BlahBlah-zb7es]

I fucking love your shit. Keep it up. Should I do a playthrough only using Characters that automatically join or should I do a playthrough using your new playthrough suggestions?

[@BlueElthunder57]

Answer: ASAP, unless if your unit doesn't get much from promoting in the fisrt place. Like 1 HP for example. Exceptions, some mages are better to hold their promotion off to gain access to more powerful spells.